Cadillac News: Welcome to the New Standard of the World! Cadillac CELESTIQ

[G. David Felt]

Drawing from every era and element of its rich heritage, Cadillac has delivered the most advanced, most luxurious and most important vehicles they might ever produce.

Welcome to the Cadillac CELESTIQ, a handcrafted, all-electric, ultra-luxury flagship showing the world the "Standard of the World" is back for Cadillacs electric future.

The CELESTIQ is built on legacy, cutting-edge technology integrated into a design with personalized luxury rooted in Cadillac's rich history of building handcrafted coached like the iconic 1933 V16 Aerodynamic Coupe and the 1957 Eldorado Brougham.

Each CELESTIQ is a personally commissioned luxury sedan, no two will be alike. The client will work directly with their selected dealer and the Cadillac Design team to realize their unique vision for the car. Unprecedented levels of personalization tailored to reflect each owner's tastes.

Per Global Vice President of Cadillac Rory Harvey, “CELESTIQ is like no Cadillac before it and the client experience is equally exceptional,” “Each vehicle is a unique expression of its owner, leveraging leading-edge technologies that make the driving experience personal and rewarding.” “With an extremely low volume of hand-built vehicles to be offered globally each year and an exclusive declaration process, CELESTIQ will truly be a custom-commissioned one-of-one,” “Each client will experience a personalized journey to make their vehicle exactly the way they desire.”

Exhilarating performance and range come from the foundation of the revolutionary Ultium Platform that makes up the CELESTIQ. A dedicated 111-kWh battery pack, two-motor, all-wheel-drive propulsion system to offer an estimated 600 horsepower and 640 lb-ft of torque with an estimated driving range of 300 miles on a full charge.

Cadillac CELESTIQ will deliver one of the quickest 0-60mph accelerations in the segment of 3.8 seconds. This is accomplished by a unique among the Ultium-based EVs with a 11.59:1 front ratio and 11:63:1 rear gear ratio which were specially calibrated to optimize range and performance.

The Ultium Platform also serves as a structural element of the vehicle, contributing to its overall strength and feeling of solidity, in addition to its performance. The CELESTIQ’s battery cells are mounted horizontally, enabling the vehicle’s long, low and lean proportions, while the low mounting position of the pack drops the vehicle’s center of gravity, enhancing handling and ride comfort, as well as maximizing interior spaciousness.

Regen on Demand Braking² is standard and helps maximize driving range by converting the kinetic energy of the vehicle’s forward momentum into electricity that’s stored in the battery pack. It also includes One-Pedal Driving³, which can slow the vehicle to a complete stop using only the accelerator pedal, for very fine vehicle control.

Cadillac has had an exceptional reputation for isolated precision, meaning CELESTIQ offers the ultimate in ride refinement without sacrifices, Best of Both Worlds in the "Standard of the World".

Tony Roma, CELESTIQ chief engineer stated the following: “CELESTIQ offers responsiveness and athleticism typically associated with smaller performance vehicles,” “We have incorporated Cadillac’s expertise developing advanced chassis and suspension systems into an entirely new experience for the client.”

CELESTIQ's Isolated Precision includes the following:

• Adaptive Air Suspension: CELESTIQ makes use of an air suspension system, rather than the coiled springs used in a traditional suspension system. Compared to traditional suspension systems, air suspension offers a softer, more isolated ride for greater ride quality.
• Active Rear Steering: CELESTIQ will offer up to 3.5 degrees of out-of-phase rear steering, in which the rear wheels turn in the opposite direction of the front wheels for greater maneuverability at low speeds. At higher speeds, the rear wheels will turn in-phase with the front wheels.
• Magnetic Ride Control 4.0: A signature Cadillac engineering innovation will find a new home in CELESTIQ. Originally developed for the Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing, the system is the world’s fastest-reacting suspension technology, which allows for greater responsiveness and enhanced isolation from road imperfections.
• Advanced AWD: CELESTIQ offers a two-motor electric drive unit. These motors work with torque optimizer modules that analyze torque requirements for given vehicle inputs. These modules turn the front or rear motors on and off as required to provide optimal torque to enhance ride quality and electric driving range.
• Active Roll Control: The Cadillac-first Active Roll Control feature is a significant contributor to the vehicle’s nimble handling. It employs stabilizer bars embedded at the front and rear of the chassis to mitigate the rolling force exerted on the vehicle during turns and other maneuvers, enhancing the feeling of stability, control and occupant comfort.
• Active Rear Spoiler: The CELESTIQ Active Rear Spoiler deploys at lower speeds to help improve aerodynamic efficiency and further raises at higher speeds to help keep the vehicle balanced.
• Ride-focused tires: CELESTIQ will feature available 23-inch forged aluminum wheels with 23-inch summer-only Michelin Pilot Sport EV tires. This combination will offer strong rolling resistance performance and precision steering. Designed specifically for Cadillac, the tread pattern, self-sealing technology and foam inserts enable a quiet tire for greater ride isolation.
• Electric Power Steering: CELESTIQ features a variable ratio front electric power steering system, similar to that found on the Cadillac Blackwings but calibrated specifically for CELESTIQ, that works in coordination with active rear steering to automatically adjust to the ideal steering ratio depending on vehicle speed resulting in an engaging and intuitive driving experience.
• 5-link front and rear suspension: CELESTIQ’s 5-link front and rear suspension provides exceptional performance tailored specifically for the high torque output of an electric vehicle motor. The suspension isolators are precisely tuned to minimize cabin disturbances yet allow proper road feel and handling response, delivering on Cadillac’s promise of isolated precision.

Charging is a seamless experience for the clients, be it at home or on the road, Cadillac is dedicated to making this a quick experience. CELESTIQ is equipped with a 200 kW DC fast charging system capable of adding 78 miles of range in 10 minutes via a public DC fast charger.

Client's can find EV charging via a simplified designed Ultium Charge 360 app on their smartphone showing charge points all over the U.S. and Canada through the current myCadillac Mobile app. This app will allow the client's to not only find nearby charging stations, but see real time charger availability, plane routes, start charging sessions and more.

The Ultium platform integrates the propulsions battery pack as a structural element of the auto, contributing to the overall strength, durability, low center of gravity and performance. 

The CELESTIQ will be the first of the EVs to maximize Mega Castings where each mega cast will replace 30 to 40 components from a traditional stamping process. These benefits give more efficient use of interior and exterior space, simplicity and improved structural rigidity leading to superior isolation of the ultimate quiet ride.

 On top of the MEGA CASTINGs, you will find 115 3D printed parts allowing for the ultimate in custom manufacturing for each client.

• The steering wheel center is the largest metal part GM has printed in production, combining the show surface and the structural B-side of the part, while the seat belt adjustable guide loop is GM’s first safety-related 3D printed part.
• Other 3D printed parts include window switches, grab handles, console decor and structural pieces under the vehicle’s surface.

Cadillac FLEX fabrication, what is this? 

Each CELESTIQ vehicle will feature over 300 fabricated pieces throughout the body structure, chassis, interior and electrical components. This process utilizes metal sheets that can be folded and manipulated into the unique shapes required for the CELESTIQ design, a process that GM says is more akin to metallic origami than traditional stamping and brings back the customized metal work that Cadillac was well known for in the early 1900's.

CELESTIQ additional details:

• A long dash-to-axle ratio lends to CELESTIQ’s classic proportions that are evocative of performance vehicles.
• Precision advanced aluminum castings combined with advanced engineering and manufacturing allow CELESTIQ to house large 23-inch wheels.
• The use of advanced casting techniques allowed CELESTIQ engineers to efficiently package all technologies – never compromising on design or client comfort.
• Inside, the low, flat floor allows every seat to have equal levels of comfort – each with a full range of comfort adjustability.
• The Fixed Smart Glass Roof eliminates the need for a sunshade or headliner, maximizing headroom.

The CELESTIQ architecture incorporates a unique 48-volt electrical system that's driven by a digital electrical architecture of its own, supporting the vehicles advanced feature technologies. Clients will find more than 30 virtual controls accommodating the vehicles high levels of seat and climate customization without the need for traditional buttons and switches.

Cadillac's transformation to be all electric by 2030 is what has manifested in the CELESTIQ and the styling of the LYRIQ in what is the new "Art of Travel" design philosophy. 

Art of Travel considers the entire encounter with the vehicle, from its visual presence to the rich feel of its components, and the choregraphed experiences in which curated "sense of occasion" features transform the ordinary into the extraordinary.

Cadillac says this tailored approach to the CELESTIQ, LYRIQ and all Cadillac EVs will give every owner their own unique experience as their car makes common elements feel distinctly personal.

Erin Crossley, design director of CELESTIQ had this to say: “CELESTIQ is the purest expression of Cadillac’s legacy of design excellence,” “It revives the spirit of handcrafted coaches in a vehicle that is both an artistic tour de force and a peerless sensory experience.” “The result is an automobile that redefines luxury through the experiences it offers its driver and passengers.” 

“Everyone poured their passions into CELESTIQ,” said Crossley.

Cadillac - Embracing the Avant-Garde

The striking, bold, fastback profile silhouette of the CELESTIQ is what challenging the ultra-luxury space is all about. The spirit of futurism and the avant-garde begins with the boldness of the grill, vertical lighting, but with a sense of modernity unlike anything else in its segment.

Taki Karras, exterior design manager for CELESTIQ said the following: “Every element and every surface was pushed to the next level with meticulous detailing, delivering a visionary design that is unique and breathtaking.” “It’s a progressive vision of Cadillac exterior design language that breaks from the norm of the ultra-luxury paradigms.”

Every metal surface seen on the exterior of the vehicle is real metal — including an aluminum grille, brushed aluminum bodyside, aluminum eTrunk™ lining, rocker, taillamp and headlamp trim, and brushed metal liftgate body openings.

The aluminum grille and Goddess in the fender is milled into cast aluminum, then the piece is machine-polished, brushed and tinted. The Goddess trim also features a unique crystal element to house premium LED lighting elements.

CELESTIQ’s full exterior embodies thoughtful details for an ultra-luxury experience.  

CELESTIQ innovative technologies include the following:

• Fixed Smart Glass Roof: In an industry-first feature, Suspended Particle Device Technology, multi-color ambient lighting, and lighting choreography create a unique interplay between the exterior and the amount of light allowed into the cabin through the four-zone Fixed Smart Glass Roof.
• Automated Illuminated Charging Indicators: The charge port is surrounded by a ring of light that responds when the CELESTIQ is plugged in for charging. Visual cues indicate the state of charge, including a lit Goddess emblem above the charge port — a visual representation of how electrification is the soul of CELESTIQ and Cadillac. Additionally, the vehicle’s vertical lighting signatures in the headlamps and taillamps offer charging status indicators, indicating 10% charging increments.
• Materials: Carbon fiber comprises several areas of the exterior, this material choice enables the designers to create distinctive forms not possible with traditional metal body panels. The visible metallic surfaces are authentic metal, including the aluminum grille, header, rocker, taillamp and headlamp trim, brushed aluminum bodyside trim, aluminum eTrunk™ lining, and brushed metal liftgate body openings.  
• 3D Printing: The use of 3D printing and additive manufacturing is cutting-edge technology that produces several important CELESTIQ design elements, such as the steering wheel décor, which would be impossible to create with typical metal castings and CNC milling.  
• Exterior Lighting: Every single point of light in a CELESTIQ lighting animation is its own light source rather than the banks of lights used in many other vehicles. These individual LEDs — more than 1,600 per vehicle (depending on the sales market) — create a richer, deeper lighting experience. The choreography is accented by the Cadillac-first Digital Micromirror Device headlamps with 1.3 million pixels per side.
• Lighting Choreography: The exterior lighting choreography begins when the client is approximately 15 feet away from the CELESTIQ and it detects the client’s key fob. The vehicle welcomes the client by illuminating the front Cadillac Crest, before light cascades from the middle of the black crystal shield grille to the headlamps, creating the impression the vehicle is powering up and preparing for the journey.
• Power Open and Close Doors: There are no exterior door handles, for a cleaner, more aerodynamic appearance. Instead, the client can power open and close the doors easily with the press of a button.
• Wheel Choices: Carefully proportioned to fit its frame and proportions, the 23-inch wheels offered on CELESTIQ are available in almost countless color choices. All are matched with Michelin tires in which the sidewall is adorned with the Cadillac Precision pattern to inform the client that the tire was designed specifically for CELESTIQ.

The CELESTIQ interior design is a new standard of ultra-luxury and where Cadillac's Art of Travel design philosophy if fully realized. Craftsmanship is evident the moment a client enters the cabin, the sensory experience is ignited through the use of authentic worlds best materials and indulgent details.

Clients will find hand-wrapped materials, immersive interior lighting and embellishments that embody Cadillac's vision for exclusivity and customization.

Tristan Murphy, interior design manager has this to say: “With CELESTIQ, we’ve been able to push classic American luxury into a new modern space,” “Executed with exceptional craftmanship, there is a staggering variety of colors, trims and genuine materials that ensure no two vehicles will ever be alike.” “The interior is defined by long uninterrupted surfaces and theme lines; the sense of movement is all around you. With such a clean design, it allowed the details to shine, emphasizing precision in even the smallest of areas, truly highlighting a sense of space and scale,”

The interior of the CELESTIQ features 450 distinct LEDs for an immersive sensory experience. Clients can personalize their color selections for each interior lighting zone or let the whole CELESTIQ curate lighting combinations to harmonize the cabin across the whole color spectrum. Clients will also find a default of 18 different lighting animations which showcase the interior's lighting capabilities where the choreography of light enhances the mood.

CELESTIQ is the expression of Cadillac's artistic vision rooted in that each CELESTIQ will be a commissioned piece of art. From the seats to the dash, doors, floor and walls and roof, everything will be personalized and custom. 

Leatitia Lopez, lead colors, materials and finish designer stated this: “CELESTIQ provides an unparalleled freedom of expression for the client to create their dream vehicle with a multitude of possibilities to customize and personalize their interior and exterior through an immersive experience guided by the Concierge and Cadillac Design Team,” “CELESTIQ is so much more than the vehicle itself, it is a piece of art. We considered all aspects of the experience — from immersing the customer in the experience to creating an intimate connection with the vehicle through genuine materials, exceptional detailing and advanced technology.”

Authentic metals, leathers and premium materials is what makes a commissioned piece of art unique to each client.

• Hand-Finished Metalwork: Many of the metal elements throughout CELESTIQ require detail and finish work such as fine milling, anodization and a final polishing by hand, reflecting the authenticity and high level of finish detail that goes into each handcrafted vehicle.
• Hand-Wrapped Leather: CELESTIQ leather surfaces are made with premium leather wrapped by artisans.
• Art and Color: The client is involved in every decision when it comes to the colors, materials and finishes, including the opportunity to develop new colors or paint to match in collaboration with the Cadillac design team. This enables an essentially infinite number of choices, ensuring each client’s vehicle will be a truly one-off creation.
• A Variety of Finishes: CELESTIQ will offer an endless range of exterior and interior colors, materials and finishes enabling clients to design a truly unique vehicle.

Unprecedented innovation through technology is what each client will find in the CELESTIQ. Artfully integrated technologies that exhilarate upon first impression and become indispensable elements of every driving experience.

The center piece of the interior and the CELESTIQ technology interface is the pillar-to-pillar, 55-inch-diagonal advanced HD display, the largest in the industry segment. Pixel density is comparable to 8K screens. This display will show the driver and shared vehicle information to the driver, while the passenger side allows the occupants to play media, use the internet, connect their smartphones and more. CELESTIQ has a Digital Blinds Active Privacy technology that provides a virtual privacy shield, dimming the passenger screen from the driver's view when in use.

• The expansive, 55-inch-diagonal advanced HD screen is one of five high-definition displays in the vehicle, including a front console mounted 11-inch-diagonal touchscreen Front Command Center and a rear console mounted 8-inch-diagonal touchscreen Rear Command Center, which allow clients to control many features within the vehicle such as the seating positions, cabin temperature, door opening and closing, tinting the all-glass roof panel and more.
• Rear passengers have their own 12.6-inch-diagonal advanced displays in front of them, mounted on the front seatbacks.
• A crystal multi-functional controller directs the primary screen and is the crown jewel of the front center console, offering intuitive control of the infotainment system and other features. The exquisitely detailed dial is composed of fine metal and glass, and it houses the Cadillac Goddess emblem.

Connected Cameras: Starting with CELESTIQ, Cadillac will introduce a new connected camera platform. This platform will provide clients added peace of mind by giving them access to interior and exterior cameras through an intuitive mobile interface along with theft detection, crash recording and other useful features.

Google Built-In: Google built-in is a helpful, personalized and seamless way to enhance your in-vehicle experience. With Google Assistant, Google Maps, and Google Play you get access to hands-free help, live traffic updates, some of your favorite apps and more.

Fixed Smart Glass Roof: The all-glass roof panel, the largest in the industry, employs Suspended Particle Device technology to allow variable transmission, meaning the client can control the amount of light allowed into the vehicle in four zones — one for each passenger area. A feature unique to CELESTIQ. The effect enables ultimate control over the amount of light entering the vehicle. The tint levels for the zones vary from less than 1%, for the darkest level of opacity, to 20%, which is the standard tint level of a traditional sunroof. It is also treated with infrared reflective and low-emissivity coatings that help retain heat and prevent sunlight from raising the cabin’s temperature.

Furthermore, acoustic laminated glass is used extensively throughout the exterior of the vehicle, including all windows, to maximize sound isolation and provide a truly luxurious experience.

Advanced Climate System: CELESTIQ is the first vehicle to feature a Gentherm ClimateSense® four-zone microclimate system as standard equipment. It features 33 unique microclimate devices that allow each occupant to tailor their seat heating and cooling, along with advanced airflow technology that creates truly individualized comfort. All four-seating positions will feature the same level of individualized comfort, including a neck scarf, heated armrests as well as heated, cooled and ventilated seats. The system can also significantly reduce HVAC energy consumption.

Ultra Cruise:  CELESTIQ advances Cadillac’s expertise in hands-free advanced driver assistance technologies with Ultra Cruise. The vehicle will be equipped with all of the necessary Ultra Cruise hardware to enable incremental feature growth via over-the-air updates in 2024.    

Additional CELESTIQ technology highlights include:

• A full suite of advanced, active safety features that’s backed by the most advanced sensor systems available from Cadillac.
• Remote Auto Parking. When activated, it allows the vehicle to detect a parallel or perpendicular parking space and guide itself into the space — shifting gears, braking and steering, as needed. This is accomplished with the driver’s supervision, whether in the driver’s seat or outside the vehicle. The feature can also “unpark” the vehicle, pulling it out of the parking space without the client needing to be inside.

CELESTIQ Sound Experience
Sound is a fundamental component of the CELESTIQ sensory experience that plays a vital, complementary role to the visual and tactile elements.

Designers and engineers approached CELESTIQ sound features holistically, involving them in almost every aspect of the driving experience to elevate clients’ sense of place and environment.

CELESTIQ offers 41-speakers, including three exterior speakers. In the cabin, a 38-speaker AKG Studio Reference Audio System custom tuned by professional audio engineers utilizes three separate amplifiers powering 30 channels for complete audio immersion. The system features technologies such as 3D Surround, Vehicle Noise Compensation, Conversation Enhancement, Phone Zones, and more.  Altogether, it is designed to deliver a crisp, nuanced and undistorted listening experience. 

The CELESTIQ sound experience also offers quietness when desired. The vehicle will be equipped with Next Generation Active Road Noise Cancellation which works much like noise-cancelling headphones to help eliminate road noise. When coupled with other vehicle sound reduction measures, Next Generation Active Road Noise Cancellation helps to provide a clean sound canvas within the cabin. 

The CELESTIQ sound experience is further elevated through Electric Vehicle Sound Enhancement technology, which balances and blends the propulsion system’s sound. When coupled with Cadillac’s curated sound library, the system provides an incredible aural experience.

Even the Fixed Smart Glass Roof contributes to quietness, as it is made of 7.5-mm-thick advanced noise-dampening glass — twice the thickness of a high-grade acoustic windshield, which helps minimize road noise.

Additionally, CELESTIQ introduces a Cadillac-first Vehicle Exterior Sound System, which provides Cadillac curated propulsion sounds while driving.

CELESTIQ World-Class Quality and Manufacturing
To deliver a Cadillac unlike any other, CELESTIQ is the recipient of a commensurately advanced quality program. It’s the most ambitious in the brand’s 120-year history, leveraging the full weight of its global testing centers for real-world validation, as well as the capabilities of state-of-the-art virtual testing that helps to reduce development time. 

An unprecedented, sophisticated artisan manufacturing process for CELESTIQ also contributes to its quality, as each handcrafted vehicle will be constructed with obsessive levels of detail.

“Cadillac’s brand legacy was forged with hand-building the most advanced vehicles of their era,” said Roma. “We are returning to that tradition with CELESTIQ, creating a piece of automotive art with each one produced.”

Every CELESTIQ will be constructed at the General Motors Global Technical Center, in Warren, Michigan. 

The CELESTIQ manufacturing area is a high-security “clean room”-type environment known as the Artisan Center, with access granted only to the artisans involved with construction. No more than six vehicles will be assembled at any time, ensuring the many layers of attention and quality control are painstakingly executed.

CELESTIQ will go into production in December 2023 with an MSRP to begin north of $300,000 and will go up based on the customization and personalization of each CELESTIQ. CELESTIQ is currently available by waitlist only at this time. One can visit https://www.cadillac.com for more information on the CELESTIQ and to sign up for the waitlist.

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[surreal1272]

Love it but "Pretty much everything on this car exists already and there are other EV’s with more power and more range."  -SMK

 

Sorry. Couldn't resist one little jab at the obvious lol.

 

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Love it but "Pretty much everything on this car exists already and there are other EV’s with more power and more range."  -SMK

 

Sorry. Couldn't resist one little jab at the obvious lol.

 

I understand, @smk4565 likes to drink like many from the coolaid and forget that no company is the best, no company is perfect and no company stays on top.

GM as well as many other companies like Digital Computer, Compaq, etc. have shown us this. 

History especially has shown us the rise and fall of companies such as the steel industry to name another segment.

Does not mean a company cannot regain their leadership status which I believe GM is on the path to doing in the Auto industry and like IGM who rebuilt starting in the late 90's after poor leadership to become a leading tech company again.

[ccap41]

15 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Love it but "Pretty much everything on this car exists already and there are other EV’s with more power and more range."  -SMK

 

Sorry. Couldn't resist one little jab at the obvious lol.

 

It really doesn't seem all that ground breaking.  Maybe I missed something but outside of smart glass, a cool four zone climate control, and the awesome FLEX manufacturing, it isn't doing much of anything else that isn't already out there. 

No trying to troll or whatnot, but I just read through this all and I really didn't read anything outside of what I mentioned above that somebody else isn't already doing. 

I mean, why do they need to say it has power steering, performance tires, and a five-link rear suspension? 

Tesla, for one, has been building a car with more power and more range for a few years already. I don't think the power figures here are a negative but I think 300 miles seems weak.

Yes, yes, yes, I know Tesla is NOT in the ultra luxury segment but a car that's longer than a Escalade should have enough battery capacity for more than 300 miles. 

The ugly-@ss EQS AMG has 649hp/700tq, estimates 0-60 in 3.4 seconds and only 277 miles of range, 23 additional miles or range is nothing special, imo. 

[G. David Felt]

37 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It really doesn't seem all that ground breaking.  Maybe I missed something but outside of smart glass, a cool four zone climate control, and the awesome FLEX manufacturing, it isn't doing much of anything else that isn't already out there. 

No trying to troll or whatnot, but I just read through this all and I really didn't read anything outside of what I mentioned above that somebody else isn't already doing. 

I mean, why do they need to say it has power steering, performance tires, and a five-link rear suspension? 

Tesla, for one, has been building a car with more power and more range for a few years already. I don't think the power figures here are a negative but I think 300 miles seems weak.

Yes, yes, yes, I know Tesla is NOT in the ultra luxury segment but a car that's longer than a Escalade should have enough battery capacity for more than 300 miles. 

The ugly-@ss EQS AMG has 649hp/700tq, estimates 0-60 in 3.4 seconds and only 277 miles of range, 23 additional miles or range is nothing special, imo. 

I understand you are not trying to troll but asking valid questions.

8K dash screen is groundbreaking and as you pointed out the smart glass, climate control, flex manufacturing, mega casting are all areas that are groundbreaking. 48V 800V Ultium platform is groundbreaking for GM and ahead of Mercedes 400V system.

Yes, Tesla is not in the Ultra-Luxury custom built coach building level, but I think at this time they are going conservative with battery and of course we will see all auto companies greatly expand range once Solid-State batteries are used like what Lucid is using. With that said, I think there are big differences between the CELESTIQ and a Tesla S. Especially what fit n finish will be.

In regard to the ugly ass EQS, let us compare an apple to apple. EQS-AMG is not out, nothing valid on the numbers, so keep it to the EQS that is currently selling.

EQS - 470 hp / 560 lb-ft of torque with 0-60 @ 4 seconds with a 107.8-kWh battery pack good for 420 miles of AWD at this time based on EPA testing.

CELESTIQ - 600 hp / 640 lb-ft of torque with 0-60 @ 3.8 seconds with a 111-kWh battery pack good for an estimated 300 miles for AWD at this time.

I suspect GM is being very cautious at this time about range and it will go up considerably once they have test mules out running around.

Tesla started out very conservative on battery range and has over the last few years upped the actual driving range on the existing battery packs.

With all the technology in the auto from the AKG music system to the digital screens and internet access, I am not surprised to have an above 300 miles at this stage.

Mega Casting is fairly new and so far, other than Tesla, no one else is heavily using it yet. GM is moving to that way to lighten the weight of the autos, make them quieter and stiffer. I am not aware of any ultra-luxury auto in that segment that is also doing this yet.

Ground-breaking is and always will be in the eye of the beholder, but to me IMHO, the Ultium Platform, Mega Casting, Flex Casting, 3D printing, hand built fully customizable auto is groundbreaking as an EV. None of the Germans or Asians have this going yet in production or test mule case yet.

[ccap41]

Seems like a competitor was just announced/shown as well.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-rolls-royce-spectre-ev-first-look-review/

46 minutes ago, David said:

In regard to the ugly ass EQS, let us compare an apple to apple. EQS-AMG is not out, nothing valid on the numbers, so keep it to the EQS that is currently selling.

Those are the numbers on Merc's website, not some speculative article. 

47 minutes ago, David said:

I suspect GM is being very cautious at this time about range and it will go up considerably once they have test mules out running around.

I sure hope so. I mean, I understand 300 miles is plenty but for a flagship technological star, I would think 350 miles would just look better, because it isn't a race car, making insane amount of power/tq.  

[surreal1272]

The Rolls is “only” sporting 320 miles of range. Neither car is being sold with “top range” in mind nor does it matter anyway for reasons that have been discussed aplenty here. Range bitching on these types of cars is like bitching about MPGs on the ICE equivalent of a $300K car. It doesn’t exist to actual buyers. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Seems like a competitor was just announced/shown as well.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-rolls-royce-spectre-ev-first-look-review/

Those are the numbers on Merc's website, not some speculative article. 

Good to see Ultraluxury competition as the Tech gets pushed down eventually.

In regard to the MB website, they are stating it much like the battery range of the CELESTE estimated. The only thing that is firm is the HP/Torque as to why I compared the CELESTIQ to the EQS as they are competitors. EQS-AMG does not have a CELESTIQ V competitor as far as we know.

I also suspect that the real competition will be a CELESTIQ with a MAYBACH when or if MB announces it.

I think the EQS competitor will be one model down in the Cadillac family which off the top of my head I cannot remember what the name was.

[smk4565]

• Adaptive Air Suspension: 
• Active Rear Steering:
• Magnetic Ride Control 4.0: 
• Advanced AWD: 
• Active Roll Control:
• Active Rear Spoiler:
• Ride-focused tires:
• Electric Power Steering:
• 5-link front and rear suspension:

All of this stuff already exists on other cars and most of it has been around a while.  They basically took Rolls-Royce's starry night headliner idea and put the lights into the glass which is a neat party piece, but the ability to block out sun or let light in Maybach did in 2004, Mercedes still has it today.  Mercedes rear wheel steer is 10 degrees, not 3.5. And you can't open the roof, why is it fixed glass and not a sunroof?  

600 hp is nothing new, pretty standard for this segment, which again, I think is fine, people buying these massive sedans aren't drag racing them or taking them to a track, so as long as they have smooth acceleration that is all that matters.  The range is fine too, they won't lose a single buyer because the range is 300 not 350.  

Their whole presentation was based on the "hand built" "custom design" "world class craftsmanship" "luxurious textures and finishes" "Standard of the World" and they filled up the buzzword bingo card but Cadillac hasn't been about any of those things in 60-70 years.  Cadillac themselves referenced what they were 100 years ago is what they are shooting for.  Why should we believe if you haven't done it in 70 years, all of a sudden you got it right?  

But if Cadillac can find 400 people a year that want to spend $350k on this car, more power to them.  

Edited October 18, 2022 by smk4565

[smk4565]

18 minutes ago, David said:

Good to see Ultraluxury competition as the Tech gets pushed down eventually.

In regard to the MB website, they are stating it much like the battery range of the CELESTE estimated. The only thing that is firm is the HP/Torque as to why I compared the CELESTIQ to the EQS as they are competitors. EQS-AMG does not have a CELESTIQ V competitor as far as we know.

I also suspect that the real competition will be a CELESTIQ with a MAYBACH when or if MB announces it.

I think the EQS competitor will be one model down in the Cadillac family which off the top of my head I cannot remember what the name was.

Seems like there may not be a Maybach EQS sedan, but a Maybach EQS SUV has already been confirmed.    Not sure why they wouldn't just do both. They are doing a Maybach SL, which makes less sense.  And I don't know why there isn't a Maybach G-wagen, which makes more sense than an AMG version.

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

• Adaptive Air Suspension: 
• Active Rear Steering:
• Magnetic Ride Control 4.0: 
• Advanced AWD: 
• Active Roll Control:
• Active Rear Spoiler:
• Ride-focused tires:
• Electric Power Steering:
• 5-link front and rear suspension:

All of this stuff already exists on other cars and most of it has been around a while.  They basically took Rolls-Royce's starry night headliner idea and put the lights into the glass which is a neat party piece, but the ability to block out sun or let light in Maybach did in 2004, Mercedes still has it today.  Mercedes rear wheel steer is 10 degrees, not 3.5. And you can't open the roof, why is it fixed glass and not a sunroof?  

600 hp is nothing new, pretty standard for this segment, which again, I think is fine, people buying these massive sedans aren't drag racing them or taking them to a track, so as long as they have smooth acceleration that is all that matters.  The range is fine too, they won't lose a single buyer because the range is 300 not 350.  

Their whole presentation was based on the "hand built" "custom design" "world class craftsmanship" "luxurious textures and finishes" "Standard of the World" and they filled up the buzzword bingo card but Cadillac hasn't been about any of those things in 60-70 years.  Cadillac themselves referenced what they were 100 years ago is what they are shooting for.  Why should we believe if you haven't done it in 70 years, all of a sudden you got it right?  

But if Cadillac can find 400 people a year that want to spend $350k on this car, more power to them.  

This is the nitpicking that others have talked about. You are ignoring the new electric platform that runs at 800V. Your ignoring the Mega Casting and Flex fabrication and 3D printing on top of how they bring plenty of existing small bits and new tech together to make an incredible auto. 

Nit picking on 9 items on an overall New from Scratch EV design in 24 months is way faster than any other auto company is doing right now including Tesla that seems to take 3 to 5 years from concept announcement and reservations before it actually shows up on the road.

[smk4565]

27 minutes ago, David said:

This is the nitpicking that others have talked about. You are ignoring the new electric platform that runs at 800V. Your ignoring the Mega Casting and Flex fabrication and 3D printing on top of how they bring plenty of existing small bits and new tech together to make an incredible auto. 

Nit picking on 9 items on an overall New from Scratch EV design in 24 months is way faster than any other auto company is doing right now including Tesla that seems to take 3 to 5 years from concept announcement and reservations before it actually shows up on the road.

Others have 800 volt platforms too, and these cars can claim as fast a charging time as they want, but you also need a charger capable of it and the charge network isn't great outside of Tesla's.  Which is an EV in general issue, plus if you charge at home it is like 11 kilowatt hours on most EV's.

3D printing doesn't do anything for me.  The Celestiq is a lot of screens, and I get that every car is doing that, but I am not a big fan of that either, have tactile buttons, knobs, switches and materials I find more luxurious than screens.  Which again, I prefer the S-class interior to the EQS with hyper screen.   The Celestiq interior could be in the next Escalade and fitting for that segment, I don't see it as a Rolls-Royce or Bentley level interior.

[surreal1272]

9 hours ago, David said:

This is the nitpicking that others have talked about. You are ignoring the new electric platform that runs at 800V. Your ignoring the Mega Casting and Flex fabrication and 3D printing on top of how they bring plenty of existing small bits and new tech together to make an incredible auto. 

Nit picking on 9 items on an overall New from Scratch EV design in 24 months is way faster than any other auto company is doing right now including Tesla that seems to take 3 to 5 years from concept announcement and reservations before it actually shows up on the road.

He literally ignores everything like the 3D printing options because it doesn’t do anything for him, like that matters at all. Stop indulging the Mercedes fan who will never admit that Cadillac might just be upping their game to the point that it could possibly (already has in the EV world) leapfrog his precious German handlers. Just a complete waste of space at this point. Everyone who is not a complete Benz fanboy recognizes what’s going on here.

For F sake, he even talks about the need for physical buttons and preferring the S Class for that reason yet…find the buttons in this S-Class interior. It’s the same $h! in a different form factor from the hyper screen equipped models from Benz and not a button to be found. 
 

Again, his validation here is not needed when he can’t even keep his “needs” straight. 
 

Edited October 19, 2022 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

11 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

He literally ignores everything like the 3D printing options because it doesn’t do anything for him, like that matters at all. Stop indulging the Mercedes fan who will never admit that Cadillac might just be upping their game to the point that it could possibly (already has in the EV world) leapfrog his precious German handlers. Just a complete waste of space at this point. Everyone who is not a complete Benz fanboy recognizes what’s going on here.

For F sake, he even talks about the need for physical buttons and preferring the S Class for that reason yet…find the buttons in this S-Class interior. It’s the same $h! in a different form factor from the hyper screen equipped models from Benz and not a button to be found. 
 

Again, his validation here is not needed when he can’t even keep his “needs” straight. 
 

So true, that he cannot even admit his 400V EQ world is garbage compared to VW, GM, Ford, Kia and Hyundai who are the current leaders in EVs.

One cannot say that I did not try to point out the facts. 

Going to be interesting to see how Sony Honda Mobile does and how it will sell being on the Honda lots next to their Ultium EVs. We are in interesting times, and I think some of the current conservative auto companies are going to come up short and others are going to morph over time.

press-release_2022-10-13_en (sony-honda-mobility.com)

Sony has an $81.78 Billion market capitalization; Honda has a $39.88 billion market capitalization. Will be interesting to see if the Sony Honda EV things go well, do the parent companies merge or just what happens with this new side business for them both.

Sony has also stated they see room for luxury in building a better EV than the current luxury auto companies. So, do they push into the current luxury or ultra-luxury market?

I think Cadillac not only has a hit on their hands and that their EV product line will set a new bar for everyone to catch up too, but we are going to see a major market change over the next decade.

[surreal1272]

3 minutes ago, David said:

So true, that he cannot even admit his 400V EQ world is garbage compared to VW, GM, Ford, Kia and Hyundai who are the current leaders in EVs.

Which is the ONLY reason why he thinks 800V is a waste. Not because of lack of 800V chargers but because his favorite doesn't even have it. "The best or...not the best by Mercedes Benz". That is why there will no further engagement with him by me. 

[ccap41]

14 hours ago, David said:

I also suspect that the real competition will be a CELESTIQ with a MAYBACH when or if MB announces it.

That Rolls I linked seems like a direct competitor and it doesn't have a disgusting rear 1/4 of a vehicle. 

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That Rolls I linked seems like a direct competitor and it doesn't have a disgusting rear 1/4 of a vehicle. 

Agree, I do think it is a direct competitor. It will be interesting to see the direction of style and due to the benefits of air flow if more go fastback or not.

This does tell me one interesting thing, good possibility that big cars are back, bigger than ever.

If memory serves me correct, the original Robocop had a commercial about BIG IS BACK! 

 

[ccap41]

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

• Adaptive Air Suspension: 
• Active Rear Steering:
• Magnetic Ride Control 4.0: 
• Advanced AWD: 
• Active Roll Control:
• Active Rear Spoiler:
• Ride-focused tires:
• Electric Power Steering:
• 5-link front and rear suspension:

All of this stuff already exists on other cars and most of it has been around a while.  They basically took Rolls-Royce's starry night headliner idea and put the lights into the glass which is a neat party piece, but the ability to block out sun or let light in Maybach did in 2004, Mercedes still has it today.  Mercedes rear wheel steer is 10 degrees, not 3.5. And you can't open the roof, why is it fixed glass and not a sunroof?  

600 hp is nothing new, pretty standard for this segment, which again, I think is fine, people buying these massive sedans aren't drag racing them or taking them to a track, so as long as they have smooth acceleration that is all that matters.  The range is fine too, they won't lose a single buyer because the range is 300 not 350.  

Their whole presentation was based on the "hand built" "custom design" "world class craftsmanship" "luxurious textures and finishes" "Standard of the World" and they filled up the buzzword bingo card but Cadillac hasn't been about any of those things in 60-70 years.  Cadillac themselves referenced what they were 100 years ago is what they are shooting for.  Why should we believe if you haven't done it in 70 years, all of a sudden you got it right?  

But if Cadillac can find 400 people a year that want to spend $350k on this car, more power to them.  

We don't always agree but I think you nailed it on the head right here. There are a couple awesome technological advances in the climate zones and manufacturing, but the rest has been done and even by their own brands. 

Nobody buys a car because they found an efficient way to manufacture the vehicle. 

[surreal1272]

20 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That Rolls I linked seems like a direct competitor and it doesn't have a disgusting rear 1/4 of a vehicle. 

It is also just a two door vs a four door and skip the fact that while those materials are typical Rolls expensive and high quality, it is also a visual mess in there and front pieces of the dash actually look hodge podge like in their design. No flow at all. I mean, on first glance, it doesn't even look like a $400K car much less a Rolls IMO. The Caddy may have a questionable look to the rear 3 quarters but that will vary person to person and owners will spend more time inside these cars looking at the interior, which again, does Rolls no favors at first glance.

Edited October 19, 2022 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

11 hours ago, David said:

Nit picking on 9 items on an overall New from Scratch EV design in 24 months is way faster than any other auto company is doing right now including Tesla that seems to take 3 to 5 years from concept announcement and reservations before it actually shows up on the road.

First of all, that's Cadillac's fault for noting those in their releases. He's only talking about what Cadillac, themselves, issued for a press release. Second, Kia and Hyundai are absolutely pumping out vehicles in "24 months". GM isn't doing that either, the guy I know who works for GM says he saw this when he was first hired 2 or 3 years ago. 

[Drew Dowdell]

This car is going to feel cavernous inside. The EQS doesn't feel that much bigger than a standard issue E-Class, though it does have more trunk space. Part of that is due to the bathtub feeling with the doors that go up to nearly shoulder height.

I will likely be getting some EQS AMG drive time tomorrow.

[ccap41]

@Davidsaid the EQS AMG wasn't a thing yet?!? ?

[Drew Dowdell]

10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

@Davidsaid the EQS AMG wasn't a thing yet?!? ?

According to the itinerary of the event tomorrow, the EQB 350, EQE 500, and EQS AMG will all be there.  Could be pre-production possibly.

[G. David Felt]

25 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

@Davidsaid the EQS AMG wasn't a thing yet?!? ?

Not according to the MB News section, this is the first I have heard that the EQS AMG is actually out. I know Mercedes showed off a concept AMG at one time. but nothing else on their news site since.

Interesting is that the EQE AMG has been announced and shown.

Mercedes-Benz USA | Online Newsroom (mbusa.com)

Doing a Search for AMG EQS shows nothing, so at this time, I have to wonder if @smk4565 is confused with the AMG EQE SUV that is coming out.

@Drew Dowdell Looking forward to what you learn about the AMG EQ????????? tomorrow.

Did find on their Global Page talks about pre-orders of AMG EQS sedan. but it does not look to be out or in the U.S. yet.

Mercedes-Benz Cars - Mercedes-Benz Group Media

This is all from 2021 and then silence.

[ccap41]

50 minutes ago, David said:

Not according to the MB News section, this is the first I have heard that the EQS AMG is actually out. I know Mercedes showed off a concept AMG at one time. but nothing else on their news site since.

Interesting is that the EQE AMG has been announced and shown.

Mercedes-Benz USA | Online Newsroom (mbusa.com)

Doing a Search for AMG EQS shows nothing, so at this time, I have to wonder if @smk4565 is confused with the AMG EQE SUV that is coming out.

@Drew Dowdell Looking forward to what you learn about the AMG EQ????????? tomorrow.

Did find on their Global Page talks about pre-orders of AMG EQS sedan. but it does not look to be out or in the U.S. yet.

Mercedes-Benz Cars - Mercedes-Benz Group Media

This is all from 2021 and then silence.

You're probably not seeing them under their news because they're already been out and tested by the magazines.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a38697462/2022-mercedes-amg-eqs-drive/

They're probably just reaching dealerships but they're available.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=652389155&allListingType=all-cars&makeCodeList=MB&modelCodeList=MBEQSAMG&city=Highland&state=IL&zip=62249&location=&searchRadius=500&isNewSearch=false&marketExtension=include&showAccelerateBanner=false&sortBy=relevance&numRecords=25&requestId=2281868035&dma=&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fall-cars%2Fmercedes-benz%2Feqs-amg%2Fhighland-il-62249%3Fdma%3D%26searchRadius%3D500%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26showAccelerateBanner%3Dfalse%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26numRecords%3D25%26requestId%3D2281868035&clickType=listing

 

[smk4565]

9 hours ago, ccap41 said:

We don't always agree but I think you nailed it on the head right here. There are a couple awesome technological advances in the climate zones and manufacturing, but the rest has been done and even by their own brands. 

Nobody buys a car because they found an efficient way to manufacture the vehicle. 

Right, and my car is 15 years old and has 4 zone climate control.  The Celestiq offers what is par for the course among the A8/S-class/7-series crowd, sort of par for the course on EV power and range.   So if you like what the big car segment has to offer but are a Cadillac fan, here's your car.  I don't think they are contesting Bentley and Rolls owners with this thing though.

[smk4565]

6 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

According to the itinerary of the event tomorrow, the EQB 350, EQE 500, and EQS AMG will all be there.  Could be pre-production possibly.

EQB is on dealer lots already, the other 2 aren't yet, so maybe pre-production or just early production.

EQE 500 I find interesting, because the EQS is a big blob, the EQE being smaller should be a lot better drive and it has the same interior basically for less money. 

I do wonder not just for AMG but all car companies, how you start to differentiate from the base car, because it isn't like you are replacing a 4 cylinder with a V8 anymore, a lot of the performance EV's are the same car with different software.  Unless we get to a point where an AMG, M, Shelby, SRT or whatever is like a $10,000 add on and not a $30,000 add on like in the ICE days.

10 hours ago, David said:

So true, that he cannot even admit his 400V EQ world is garbage compared to VW, GM, Ford, Kia and Hyundai who are the current leaders in EVs.

One cannot say that I did not try to point out the facts. 

Going to be interesting to see how Sony Honda Mobile does and how it will sell being on the Honda lots next to their Ultium EVs. We are in interesting times, and I think some of the current conservative auto companies are going to come up short and others are going to morph over time.

press-release_2022-10-13_en (sony-honda-mobility.com)

Sony has an $81.78 Billion market capitalization; Honda has a $39.88 billion market capitalization. Will be interesting to see if the Sony Honda EV things go well, do the parent companies merge or just what happens with this new side business for them both.

Sony has also stated they see room for luxury in building a better EV than the current luxury auto companies. So, do they push into the current luxury or ultra-luxury market?

I think Cadillac not only has a hit on their hands and that their EV product line will set a new bar for everyone to catch up too, but we are going to see a major market change over the next decade.

I am not sold on Sony, Apple, Google or any other tech or electronics company building cars.  Just because the car is an EV, doesn't mean you make the same way as an iPhone or a TV.  You still need the manufacturing, metal stamping, paint booth, crash testing and all the stuff ICE cars have now, and Sony and Apple don't know the first thing about building a car.

[surreal1272]

50 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Right, and my car is 15 years old and has 4 zone climate control.

You have smoked yourself Mercedes fanboy retarded if you think what is in your Benz and what's in the Caddy are the same damn thing.

 

Whitewash and delude the Caddy all you want but the fanboy envy is obvious here when you keep spouting nonsense like the climate control features being the same as your 15 year old Benz and everything else you have been incorrect over in this thread. Save it. Seriously. No one is buying what you're trying to sell here.

39 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

EQB is on dealer lots already, the other 2 aren't yet, so maybe pre-production or just early production.

EQE 500 I find interesting, because the EQS is a big blob, the EQE being smaller should be a lot better drive and it has the same interior basically for less money. 

I do wonder not just for AMG but all car companies, how you start to differentiate from the base car, because it isn't like you are replacing a 4 cylinder with a V8 anymore, a lot of the performance EV's are the same car with different software.  Unless we get to a point where an AMG, M, Shelby, SRT or whatever is like a $10,000 add on and not a $30,000 add on like in the ICE days.

I am not sold on Sony, Apple, Google or any other tech or electronics company building cars.  Just because the car is an EV, doesn't mean you make the same way as an iPhone or a TV.  You still need the manufacturing, metal stamping, paint booth, crash testing and all the stuff ICE cars have now, and Sony and Apple don't know the first thing about building a car.

And I'm sure that you know better than these multi-billion dollar companies lol. What are your car manufacturing credentials again?

Edited October 19, 2022 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

@smk4565--Show us on your 15 year old Mercedes where it has the following in regards to your "4 zone climate control" (since you somehow think it is that simple).

Advanced Climate System: CELESTIQ is the first vehicle to feature a Gentherm ClimateSense® four-zone microclimate system as standard equipment. It features 33 unique microclimate devices that allow each occupant to tailor their seat heating and cooling, along with advanced airflow technology that creates truly individualized comfort. All four-seating positions will feature the same level of individualized comfort, including a neck scarf, heated armrests as well as heated, cooled and ventilated seats. The system can also significantly reduce HVAC energy consumption.

[smk4565]

36 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

@smk4565--Show us on your 15 year old Mercedes where it has the following in regards to your "4 zone climate control" (since you somehow think it is that simple).

Advanced Climate System: CELESTIQ is the first vehicle to feature a Gentherm ClimateSense® four-zone microclimate system as standard equipment. It features 33 unique microclimate devices that allow each occupant to tailor their seat heating and cooling, along with advanced airflow technology that creates truly individualized comfort. All four-seating positions will feature the same level of individualized comfort, including a neck scarf, heated armrests as well as heated, cooled and ventilated seats. The system can also significantly reduce HVAC energy consumption.

My car does not have heated and cooled rear seats only front, and no neck scarf.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

My car does not have heated and cooled rear seats only front, and no neck scarf.

So your car and its four zone climate control is nothing like what’s in the Caddy. Save the trolling remark next time and just admit you were trolling to begin with. Also helps to admit you don’t know what you’re talking about here but I don’t expect a Benz fan to admit to anything that may be a positive for a GM product. 

[ccap41]

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Right, and my car is 15 years old and has 4 zone climate control.  The Celestiq offers what is par for the course among the A8/S-class/7-series crowd, sort of par for the course on EV power and range.   So if you like what the big car segment has to offer but are a Cadillac fan, here's your car.  I don't think they are contesting Bentley and Rolls owners with this thing though.

I don't think your car's 4 zone climate control is quite as detailed as this one sounds. 

I also think the OEM customizations that this thing will offer, and assuming the highest quality materials,  will keep this thing above those much more conventional large luxury cars. 

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

EQB is on dealer lots already, the other 2 aren't yet, so maybe pre-production or just early production.

There are EQS AMG's on dealer lots, according to Autotrader. 

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I do wonder not just for AMG but all car companies, how you start to differentiate from the base car, because it isn't like you are replacing a 4 cylinder with a V8 anymore, a lot of the performance EV's are the same car with different software.  Unless we get to a point where an AMG, M, Shelby, SRT or whatever is like a $10,000 add on and not a $30,000 add on like in the ICE days.

More/bigger batteries along with more powerful motors. That's no different than dropping in a larger engine. 

[surreal1272]

41 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

don't think your car's 4 zone climate control is quite as detailed as this one sounds

Screw “thinking” it’s not the same. It is factually not the same. It’s just pure trolling on his part and he knows it. 

[ccap41]

6 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Screw “thinking” it’s not the same. It is factually not the same. It’s just pure trolling on his part and he knows it. 

Calm down there, buddy. I know it isn't the same. 

[surreal1272]

8 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Calm down there, buddy. I know it isn't the same. 

Don’t misread what I am saying. I am perfectly calm. I’m also not letting the Benz fanboy slide with his endless bull$h! any longer. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

7 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Don’t misread what I am saying. I am perfectly calm. I’m also not letting the Benz fanboy slide with his endless bull$h! any longer.

Like, you're going to be the internet police?

[surreal1272]

34 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Like, you're going to be the internet police?

Again, misreading what I said. Me calling him out on his constant lies (much like you did with Olds not too long ago) has jack squat to do with being "internet police" (which no different than how you have responded to him here). Stop the act because you know exactly what I am talking about.

Edited October 20, 2022 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

All BS and obvious trolling by some aside, something like the Celestiq has been LONG overdue from Cadillac. The benefit of this is that the tech in the Celestiq will probably triple down to other future products like the inevitable Escalade EV on down. This is nothing but a win for GM and Cadillac if all the pieces fall together for them.

[ccap41]

23 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Again, misreading what I said. Me calling him out on his constant lies (much like you did with Olds not too long ago) has jack squat to do with being "internet police" (which no different than how you have responded to him here). Stop the act because you know exactly what I am talking about.

You just get so feisty for no reason. 

14 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

if all the pieces fall together for them.

That's been the difficult part for GM.

[surreal1272]

9 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

You just get so feisty for no reason. 

And you continually misread my intent but that is nothing new here so how about sticking to the subject of the thread instead of trying to make things personal while acting like you have a leg to stand on here? Besides, I would rather be seen as feisty than be seen as a troll. Take that however you want since you will do that any way.

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think your car's 4 zone climate control is quite as detailed as this one sounds. 

I also think the OEM customizations that this thing will offer, and assuming the highest quality materials,  will keep this thing above those much more conventional large luxury cars. 

There are EQS AMG's on dealer lots, according to Autotrader. 

More/bigger batteries along with more powerful motors. That's no different than dropping in a larger engine. 

I didn’t realize the AMG EQS was at dealers already but I think the regular and AMG trims of the EQE sedan and suv are all supposed to be out at about the same time.

They might be able to differentiate the battery, I read the EQG will have an optional lithium silicone anode battery that is 20-40% more power dense.  

[smk4565]

As far as Celestiq goes, a lot of the tech and features in it should be in other Cadillacs next year.  Most of that stuff is in the luxury market already.  
 

Question is what does Celestiq do for the rest of the lineup?  I don’t think people will see Celestiq and think that’s cool but can’t afford it and then buy a CT5.  The Lyriq actually matters the most to get right.

[G. David Felt]

12 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I didn’t realize the AMG EQS was at dealers already but I think the regular and AMG trims of the EQE sedan and suv are all supposed to be out at about the same time.

They might be able to differentiate the battery, I read the EQG will have an optional lithium silicone anode battery that is 20-40% more power dense.  

You have to take that 20-40% with a grain of salt as the power density of current Lithium and even the Lithium Silicone has only so much room before having to go solid state. 

I read MB press release and it could easily be taken as a 20-40% gain on MB own current battery pack of power, not 20 to 40% gain over all lithium battery packs currently out there.

Also, with a move to the technology that is in these auto's, the ability for custom software that gives a very different experience is huge.

Software that can unlock additional range in the battery pack such as Tesla has done, increase performance in the electric motors that Tesla has done and allowed additional functionality in current tech in the auto as Tesla has done is the leadership that will be interesting to watch as GM, FORD, Mercedes-Benz, VW, Hyundai, Kia, Audi, Porsche, etc. bring their EV portfolio to market and with OTA updates, how often they push out updates that improve things and or offer for purchase enhancements.

Honestly, much like the computer industry with Office 365 or other software as a service, an auto very well could contribute big time to an Auto companies bottom line when they start to offer updates as a service.

[surreal1272]

11 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 I don’t think people will see Celestiq and think that’s cool but can’t afford it and then buy a CT5.

And it's pretty ignorant to think that is what they would do in the first place. "Hey. I can't afford this $300K low volume hand built EV, so I am going to get this $50K gas powered car instead."...said NO potential EV buyer ever. The Lyriq is exactly where they hope to steer those folks, duh. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

As far as Celestiq goes, a lot of the tech and features in it should be in other Cadillacs next year.  Most of that stuff is in the luxury market already.  
 

Question is what does Celestiq do for the rest of the lineup?  I don’t think people will see Celestiq and think that’s cool but can’t afford it and then buy a CT5.  The Lyriq actually matters the most to get right.

This analogy would imply that people will not want to buy any other EQ product if they see the EQS as it is a FAILURE in Style!

If anyone see's the EQS why would they want to buy any E-Class, C-Class, B-Class, A-Class or SUV from MB when you have such a pathetic looser of style auto!

There is NOTHING that I desire either inside or out on the EQS, a Hideous failure of design by the engineers at Mercedes.

[ccap41]

Isn't that part of what flagship vehicles are supposed to do though, get people into other vehicles in their respective lineups? It should still make people want to be part of that brand and people will buy what they can afford from said brand. 

That's why Merc, BMW, Cadillac, Lincoln, Audi all have cheap luxury branded vehicles. Brand image. 

[riviera74]

How will Cadillac pull Tesla owners into buying the Celestiq or the Lyriq when those can be bought from a dealer?  If Cadillac cannot bring conquest sales from the current leader in luxury EVs, I am not sure how Cadillac will succeed.  Cadillac has not done very well pulling owners of Mercedes and BMWs and Audis to trade German for Cadillac, let alone Lexus.

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

 

[riviera74]

Conquest sales are a thing, surreal1272.  Cadillac needs more of those.  Whether it comes from Celestiq or Lyriq sales or what is currently on dealer lots, Cadillac still needs to raise its game against the competition and take market share from Lexus and the Germans.  We are in 2022, not 1978.  As for the Celestiq being a Rolls-Royce-priced flagship, I appreciate the ambition.  I just need to see more Cadillac vehicles sold.

[surreal1272]

17 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Conquest sales are a thing, surreal1272.  Cadillac needs more of those.  Whether it comes from Celestiq or Lyriq sales or what is currently on dealer lots, Cadillac still needs to raise its game against the competition and take market share from Lexus and the Germans.  We are in 2022, not 1978.  As for the Celestiq being a Rolls-Royce-priced flagship, I appreciate the ambition.  I just need to see more Cadillac vehicles sold.

I know all about conquest sales and also know that Cadillac badly needed a real halo car to get folks into their showrooms for their current and future EV offerings. That’s how you get those sales you want to see. How in the world can anyone fault them for that? Your first post was contradictory in nature hence my “reaction”.