Industry News: Auto Rental EV Expansion by Hertz and GM

[G. David Felt]

Hertz is leading the auto rental push into the EV space with GM.

Here is the nuts and bolts of this agreement.

• Hertz plans to order up to 175,000 EVs from GM over the next five years
• Hertz will offer Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, Cadillac and BrightDrop EVs across multiple vehicle categories
• Deliveries of the Chevrolet Bolt EV and Bolt EUV are expected to begin first quarter 2023

This EV agreement between Hertz and GM makes it one of the largest to date of an EV expansion among fleet customers and the broadest as it covers from compact to Fullsize EVs. Hertz will offer from trucks, SUVs, and cars from basic entry level to luxury and more with the BrightDrop vans.

Hertz has estimated that over the 5-year period, approximately 8 billion miles will be driven in EVs saving approximately 3.5 million metric tons of greenhouse gas emissions.

To quote Stephen Scherr, Hertz CEO: "It's exciting that two iconic American companies that have shaped the evolution of transportation for more than a century are coming together to redefine the future of mobility in the 21st century," "We are thrilled to partner with GM on this initiative, which will dramatically expand our EV offering to Hertz customers, including leisure and business travelers, rideshare drivers and corporates."

Hertz is investing to create the largest rental fleet of EVs in North America, with tens of thousands of EVs available for rent at 500 Hertz locations across 38 states. The company's current goal is for one-quarter of its fleet to be electric by the end of 2024.

GM Chair and CEO Mary Barra has this to say: "Our work with Hertz is a huge step forward for emissions reduction and EV adoption that will help create thousands of new EV customers for GM," "With the vehicle choice, technology and driving range we're delivering, I'm confident that each rental experience will further increase purchase consideration for our products and drive growth for our company."

With Hertz taking EV deliveries starting Q1 2023, deliveries will scale as GM rapidly scales EV production across their entire portfolio of products as GM scales to be producing 1 million EVs in North America by the end of 2025 a year.

 

 

 

 

 

View full article

[smk4565]

5 years is a long time.

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

5 years is a long time.

I do not know what you mean by that. 

Either you mean it

1. that a contract lasting 5 years is a long time.                                                                                                              or
2. that you think the contracts starts 5 years from now.   

   

Im thinking you are thinking its option #2.  But the contract starts now OVER the next 5 years it says.  Technically it starts the first quarter of 2023.   Up to 175 000 EVs of all kinds.  A drop in the bucket but its still 1750 000 units.  It will help with monies coming in and factories producing regardless the amount...   For the next 5 years...

[surreal1272]

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

5 years is a long time.

Ummm, you might want to read that again lol.

[ccap41]

Of all places for EV adoption, I think rentals may be the worst. These people are then forced to charge publicly somewhere and hope and pray your hotel has a free charger that isn't some 110v outlet. 

It's good to start this adaption but I don't think this is a good use case for the public. 

[oldshurst442]

51 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Of all places for EV adoption, I think rentals may be the worst. These people are then forced to charge publicly somewhere and hope and pray your hotel has a free charger that isn't some 110v outlet. 

It's good to start this adaption but I don't think this is a good use case for the public. 

Yes. Sure. The way it is now now.

EVs have been politicized in the US (like everything else), and much whining has been made about public charge systems.

Now...as in NOW...

would be a good  GREAT time to actually STOP the whining about charging times and public chargers and ridiculous talking points about range anxiety and start building up the damn charging infrastructure instead of whining against it.

American businesses, all levels of governments at the city, state and federal levels could get involved in building up a charge network...

I googled and came across some awesome stuff...

Ill just post some pics and American capitalism should be able to do the rest...

In the US

 

we act like a few cables and a little plastic box with sensors and adaptors is such an unsurmountable feat.  Like its a total impossibility and harder to accomplish than burying large tanks underground and fill them up with that flammable liquid time and time again...talk about logistical nightmare, but we have perfected it,...and these are literally everywhere.  And talk about a PERFECT place to put EV chargers since gasoline stations are EVERYWHERE.

And the thing is, charging stations, public and in the city could be endless as tanks need not be buried and designated in special places...

And let me whine about something...

NO NEED to transport the electricity to the charge port like a gasoline truck does to the gas station as electricity travels ITSELF!!!  

Just in case somebody missed it, solar panels on the charge ports produce electricity to alleviate the other shytty talking point...

Edited September 22, 2022 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

30 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Of all places for EV adoption, I think rentals may be the worst. These people are then forced to charge publicly somewhere and hope and pray your hotel has a free charger that isn't some 110v outlet. 

It's good to start this adaption but I don't think this is a good use case for the public. 

I would disagree with you on this. This is an excellent place for adoption when you think about it.

First, the OEMs, especially the Legacy ones are wanting to follow Rivian and Tesla and have made to order and not carry allot of inventory.

Second, if there is not allot of inventory, that makes it harder for those that need to test drive and spend time with an auto to see if they like it or not. Example is the Cadillac dealerships by me would give you the Cadillac you were interested in a loaner for 24hrs to see how you like it. If dealerships move to made to order, then you can bet having a 24hr loaner to test will not happen.

Third, the point of this is that the rental companies will allow folks to check out an EV at the interest level and learn how they drive, work etc. With the built in Nav systems that tell you were the various charging stations are at and what levels are available it will not leave people wondering where they can charge.

Fourth, Hertz has continuously increased purchases of Tesla auto's as they are the most popular for rental. With as I have posted elsewhere an average of 39 miles a day for personal ownership, rental autos have come in at only 54 miles per day on average. Most people will not have to deal with charging and I bet will take the pay option to let the rental company recharge the auto.

Hertz as I also expect other rental companies will install plenty of DC chargers to get the EVs back on the road fast.

I have posted this before, plenty easy for people to find chargers and if they drive to a distant location to check it out, it makes sense for them to find a charger and plug in while exploring the destination.

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Electric Vehicle Charging Station Locations (energy.gov)

Tesla Car Rental | Hertz Rent a Car

Another reason that auto rental companies want to move to EVs is maintenance. With EVs having much less maintenance, the EV is a higher profit rental than traditional ICE.

Just as Hertz has their Mustangs that people seem to love to rent and I can only assume in some cases abuse, one can clearly see that there will be those wanting to rent a Hummer Truck EV to experience WTF mode.

Just a few reasons for this EV purchase for renting.

[G. David Felt]

45 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yes. Sure. The way it is now now.

EVs have been politicized in the US (like everything else), and much whining has been made about public charge systems.

Now...as in NOW...

would be a good  GREAT time to actually STOP the whining about charging times and public chargers and ridiculous talking points about range anxiety and start building up the damn charging infrastructure instead of whining against it.

American businesses, all levels of governments at the city, state and federal levels could get involved in building up a charge network...

I googled and came across some awesome stuff...

Ill just post some pics and American capitalism should be able to do the rest...

In the US

 

we act like a few cables and a little plastic box with sensors and adaptors is such an unsurmountable feat.  Like its a total impossibility and harder to accomplish than burying large tanks underground and fill them up with that flammable liquid time and time again...talk about logistical nightmare, but we have perfected it,...and these are literally everywhere.  And talk about a PERFECT place to put EV chargers since gasoline stations are EVERYWHERE.

And the thing is, charging stations, public and in the city could be endless as tanks need not be buried and designated in special places...

And let me whine about something...

NO NEED to transport the electricity to the charge port like a gasoline truck does to the gas station as electricity travels ITSELF!!!  

Just in case somebody missed it, solar panels on the charge ports produce electricity to alleviate the other shytty talking point...

Great points made.

Last summer a Fuel delivery driver fell asleep at the wheel, crashed and burned. The damage to the overpass here in Lynnwood Washington 44th street over pass required that a portion of the bridge was closed down on I5 here for months as they had to rebuild the damaged section causing the area to be a bottleneck especially during commuting times.

Just think if all those fuel delivery tankers were no longer on the roads. We might now have to deal with these kinds of issues.

 

[ccap41]

I completely disagree with you guys on this and I am far from anti-EV adoption. I just think the end user themselves will not have as enjoyable of a rental experience having to charge publicly. Personally, and I've said this many times before, the biggest advantage of EVs is the ability to charge at home, over night, for very little out of pocket cost. Charging publicly takes almost all of the gasoline price savings out the window and you're forced to actually wait somewhere, unlike charging at home. 

@David's point are good points but they're not good points for the user renting the vehicles. They're fantastic points for the manufacturers who want more people to experience EVs and to sell units. 

@oldshurst442, I'm not saying it's difficult to find a charger. I'm saying it's inconvenient to ONLY be able to charge publicly and there's very little money being saved by the user by having to charge publicly. 

4 minutes ago, David said:

Just think if all those fuel delivery tankers were no longer on the roads. We might now have to deal with these kinds of issues.

You and I both know that there are environmental issues mining for the metals for batteries as well. It's a give and take but I think as batteries advance and technology advances to using less and less precious metals, it will be a much greater net gain for EVs. But, as of now, mining for those precious metals isn't a whole lot better than drilling for oil. 

They're getting there! I've read multiple things about new technology to eliminate these precious metals for future batteries. they're just not there yet and certainly not in any production vehicles. 

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

I'm not saying it's difficult to find a charger. I'm saying it's inconvenient to ONLY be able to charge publicly and there's very little money being saved by the user by having to charge publicly. 

you could only fill up a gasoline powered car in a gas station.

Charging ports should be ubiquitous like gas stations are.  Charging ports are easier to erect than gas stations are.  Charging stations could not only BE at specific charging stations only specializing in charging, but almost everywhere there is space and shopping or dining is made where the driver on an EV is out and about doing other things other than just filling up his EV with a charge.

Its that simple...

And its actually being done like how I say, not only in other parts of the world, but in the US itself, but there are far too many anti-EV rhetoric outlets in the US and the fear of EVs has set in and a stall in progress for charging stations has ensued in some parts of the US...

 

[ccap41]

4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

you could only fill up a gasoline powered car in a gas station.

In 5 minutes. 

 

5 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Charging ports should be ubiquitous like gas stations are. 

They'll likely never be that common because the demand will never be that high as most people own homes and SHOULD be charging at home. 

6 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

but there are far too many anti-EV rhetoric outlets in the US and the fear of EVs has set in and a stall in progress for charging stations has ensued in some parts of the US...

Wasn't a massive EV charging something-or-other passed like two weeks ago to give states money to build up their infrastructure? 

https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/biden-harris-administration-announces-approval-first-35-state-plans-build-out-ev-charging

 

[oldshurst442]

22 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Charging publicly takes almost all of the gasoline price savings out the window and you're forced to actually wait somewhere, unlike charging at home. 

That is the cost of doing business...   Its a service and a commodity. 

However, the free market system and competition always finds a way to compensate or reward a frequent user...

25 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I just think the end user themselves will not have as enjoyable of a rental experience having to charge publicly.

How is that any different from gassing up?

But maybe Herz and lets say Hilton Hotels and Shell and a consortium of public charging stations could have a loyalty program or package or something...

29 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I am far from anti-EV adoption.

yes.  I know that! 

?

[oldshurst442]

6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

In 5 minutes. 

 

They'll likely never be that common because the demand will never be that high as most people own homes and SHOULD be charging at home. 

Wasn't a massive EV charging something-or-other passed like two weeks ago to give states money to build up their infrastructure? 

https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/biden-harris-administration-announces-approval-first-35-state-plans-build-out-ev-charging

 

 

Like I said, restaurants, McDonald's and In and Out Burger and grocery stores and all kinds of public parking lots with businesses could have charging ports as well as designated stations.  

And its not as if charging times with these new batteries and systems take a long time with level 2 charging. On avg., 15 minutes gets you 80% of a full charge on a 250-320 mile range EV.   

Common...

Like I said, lots of unnecessary fear...

[G. David Felt]

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

In 5 minutes. 

Yes, Battery charging is not there yet equal to ICE but it is coming and we will see it by 2030.

They'll likely never be that common because the demand will never be that high as most people own homes and SHOULD be charging at home. 

Maybe you just glanced over the link above, but charging ports are far more common than many think. Yes they are very common on the West Coast compared to Mid-West and East Coast is coming along fast with charging ports. Due to Apartments, many will need public charging, Roughly a quarter of the US population lives in apartments and you and I both know that the owners will not go back and build charging spaces, as such, public chargers will grow. U.S. residents living in apartments by state | Statista

I have also posted about Shell in how they are adding EV charging spots to their stations to ensure a stop, charge, shop for a snack, etc. experience.

Wasn't a massive EV charging something-or-other passed like two weeks ago to give states money to build up their infrastructure? 

https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/biden-harris-administration-announces-approval-first-35-state-plans-build-out-ev-charging

Yes, this will also help grow the nations charging infastructure. 

Shell Recharge Solutions | Shell United States

One can clearly see how easy it will be to have public Charging stations compared to gas stations with the in-ground tanks and all the other EPA safety stuff they have to install. 

Yes Charging has it's own safety needs, but nothing like a traditional ICE station.

Yet let's focus on your original comment: 

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Of all places for EV adoption, I think rentals may be the worst. These people are then forced to charge publicly somewhere and hope and pray your hotel has a free charger that isn't some 110v outlet. 

It's good to start this adaption but I don't think this is a good use case for the public. 

How many auto renters actually have to fuel up during their rental period?

Yes, they usually fuel up at the end to avoid the high price at the rental place for gas. Most rental places do not have their own fuel pumps, so have to pay someone to drive it over, gas up and bring the auto back to rent again.

Compared to EVs, easy to have a 220 Level 2 or DC Fast charging connections installed at the rental site.

Hertz has installed fast chargers to deal with both the Tesla and will for all over EVs using fast charging CCS units. 

Electrical permit needed, but very easy to do and as per Hertz own web site, they are showing how easy it is to charge if needed.

Charging a Tesla | Hertz Electric Vehicles

I think most folks will be fine having an EV, charging up either at a public station or letting Hertz re-charge the auto.

[oldshurst442]

18 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

 

https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/biden-harris-administration-announces-approval-first-35-state-plans-build-out-ev-charging

 

 

This is what we need.  yes.

But its the Biden administration, right?

How many republicans, Ted Cruz and Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson types and Texas folk that are oil crazy will actually back up this bill?

And vice versa of course if it would have been Trump.  And Trump would have NEVER done this because of his 'base'...

[G. David Felt]

@ccap41 @oldshurst442 @surreal1272 A worthwhile read if you are interested in what is going on now and the future for EVs and Charging.

The Future Standard Of Electric Vehicles: Charging Infrastructures - Plug and Play Tech Center

[ccap41]

19 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

That is the cost of doing business...   Its a service and a commodity. 

However, the free market system and competition always finds a way to compensate or reward a frequent user...

Yeah, and, like I said, it doesn't sound like it is adantageous to the renter as much as it is to the companies involved, Hertz and GM. 

 

20 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

How is that any different from gassing up?

It takes waaaaay longer to charge up and its costing them about the same amount of money out of pocket. Where's the benefit? Even if it's only a 20 minute top-up, that's 15 more minutes the renter is wasting, also assuming a DC fast charger is conveniently located. 

[G. David Felt]

1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

This is what we need.  yes.

But its the Biden administration, right?

How many republicans, Ted Cruz and Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson types and Texas folk that are oil crazy will actually back up this bill?

And vice versa of course if it would have been Trump.  And Trump would have NEVER done this because of his 'base'...

Those politicians you mention are nothing but double standards as they were / are against the EV thing and yet an example is how Ted Cruz has moved forward to get a chunk of the money for Texas Charging installation.

Say one thing for their base, then say another thing for the base that wants to make a business off installing the chargers, selling them, etc.

Pathetic the double standard. At least the bill passed both houses and was signed and now the money is going out to the states that have applied and Chargers will get installed.

Biggest threat is the Toxic Diesel crowd that loves to ICE charging spots and cut cables as they fear change.

[ccap41]

11 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Like I said, restaurants, McDonald's and In and Out Burger and grocery stores and all kinds of public parking lots with businesses could have charging ports as well as designated stations.  

And I think that'll happen. I think it'll get to the point of a lot places having a charger or two for customers(one would probably suffice for most smaller businesses). I don't think it'll be that way within the next five years though. 

13 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Like I said, lots of unnecessary fear...

This isn't fear. It just doesn't sound like it is benefitting the renter as much as an ICE would. 

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

And I think that'll happen. I think it'll get to the point of a lot places having a charger or two for customers(one would probably suffice for most smaller businesses). I don't think it'll be that way within the next five years though. 

This isn't fear. It just doesn't sound like it is benefitting the renter as much as an ICE would. 

I think we will see chargers installed to be very noticeable by 2025 and especially by 2030.

When has any renting benefitted the renter? ICE is no different than EV. 

Hertz is doing a good job on the EV front, did not realize till today that they also rent Polestar EVs.

Electric Vehicles - Hertz Travel Blog

How to charge an electric car - Hertz Travel Blog

I have to assume they will have a GM section too, but right now the Tesla and Polestar sections are very informative and cover the concerns you have brought up.

Electric Vehicle Brand FAQs - Hertz Travel Blog

[ccap41]

9 minutes ago, David said:

How many auto renters actually have to fuel up during their rental period?

That's a great question but I do know you're always supposed to bring it back full, I'd assume the same would go for EVs, or they charge you an absurd amount per kilowatt to recharge. 

Again, this goes back to savings and convenience for the renter. If a rental company is going to jack up the price per Kw, like they do for gasoline, I'd assume AT LEAST $0.50/Kw. There goes any savings over a comparable ICE vehicle. 

11 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

This is what we need.  yes.

But its the Biden administration, right?

How many republicans, Ted Cruz and Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson types and Texas folk that are oil crazy will actually back up this bill?

Does it matter? It's passed. 

1 minute ago, David said:

When has any renting benefitted the renter? ICE is no different than EV.

It's the user experience being slowed down. Nobody who is renting a vehicle wants to wait to charge or gas up. 

[G. David Felt]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

That's a great question but I do know you're always supposed to bring it back full, I'd assume the same would go for EVs, or they charge you an absurd amount per kilowatt to recharge. 

Again, this goes back to savings and convenience for the renter. If a rental company is going to jack up the price per Kw, like they do for gasoline, I'd assume AT LEAST $0.50/Kw. There goes any savings over a comparable ICE vehicle. 

Does it matter? It's passed. 

Interesting is that Hertz has stated they will add NOTHING other than the rate they are charged to plug in the EV and they ask that you bring it back with a minimum 10% battery charge. At that rate, like they said, EVs will save renters money over the cost of fueling an ICE rental.

As per their own website, at least for right now, they are passing on the charges from Tesla Supercharging Station, EVGo or any of the other charging networks to your credit card. They are not marking up the charge cost.

[ccap41]

3 minutes ago, David said:

I have to assume they will have a GM section too, but right now the Tesla and Polestar sections are very informative and cover the concerns you have brought up.

The concern of having to wait while charging? What's their solution, because I didn't see a section for that. 

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The concern of having to wait while charging? What's their solution, because I didn't see a section for that. 

Hertz's have been very clear on the amount of time for charging.

I think if one does not have the common sense to understand at this early stage of EVs that there is a longer wait, then they are in that Instant Gratification group where they see themselves as more important than everyone else and the planet and they would never buy now or in the next couple of decades an EV.

Talking of common sense, to me it would be common, you drive your EV to the location you want to explore, play at, etc. locate the local charger and plug in so while your away, the auto charges. 

@Drew Dowdell has stated many times, what is so hard about plugging in to charge when you go to eat lunch, breakfast, dinner. You already are going to be gone for an hour or so.

This whole discussion has me also thinking on alternative ways to charge.

Are Solar Trees the Answer to EV Charging? (autoweek.com)

The EV solar tree is an interesting concept, not sure how viable it will be except for those that do long term charging like at work.

I think to avoid the cord cutting of the Toxic crowds that ICE chargers, wireless high-speed charging will be the long-term future way to go.

I will say that when I do buy my own EVs, even if the OEM does not offer a wireless charging solution, I will end up going with one of the 3rd parties companies that can install the wireless controller and pad so that it is very convenient in just driving over the pad and let it charge up while you go inside your house.

 

[ccap41]

2 minutes ago, David said:

Interesting is that Hertz has stated they will add NOTHING other than the rate they are charged to plug in the EV and they ask that you bring it back with a minimum 10% battery charge. At that rate, like they said, EVs will save renters money over the cost of fueling an ICE rental.

At least in other countries, they charge you, like they do for ICE vehicles to fuel up.

https://images.hertz.com/pdfs/ENGB_EV_RENTAL_TERMS.pdf

We will record the EV’s battery status before we rent the EV to you and measure it when you return the EV. We ask you to return the EV with at least the same level of charge or 75% (whichever is lower). If you return the EV with a level of charge lower than this then we will recharge the EV for you at the rate of €0.80/sterling equivalent (inc VAT) per kW/h. e.g. 75% on rent charge – 55% return charge = 20% 20% x 100% battery capacity = 20 20 x 0.8€ = 16€ Recharging fee. If the EV battery status is below 20% on return an Administration Charge will apply in addition to the recharging fee because this increases our turn around times and involves staff time. Administration Charge = +€25 (inc VAT)

7 minutes ago, David said:

I think if one does not have the common sense to understand at this early stage of EVs that there is a longer wait, then they are in that Instant Gratification group where they see themselves as more important than everyone else and the planet and they would never buy now or in the next couple of decades an EV.

No. Sht.

That's the whole point I'm trying to make. ICE for rentals is quicker and more simple for the one paying the money to rent a vehicle. 

I know damn well that if I'm on vacation the last thing I want to do is wait for a car to charge. 

It has nothing to do with instant "gratification". It's just fueling a vehicle up. Literally nobody in the world WANTS to be doing that at any given point, ICE or EV. That's why EVs are so damn convenient for everyday use where people like you, Olds, and myself can charge from home and always leave with a full "tank". Renters do not have that luxury. they have to go into an app, in car or on their phone, find a charger, and wait. Some are at perfectly convenient locations, and some are not. 

[oldshurst442]

8 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Does it matter? It's passed. 

I didnt know that.

Thanx for the info.

19 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It takes waaaaay longer to charge up and its costing them about the same amount of money out of pocket. Where's the benefit? Even if it's only a 20 minute top-up, that's 15 more minutes the renter is wasting, also assuming a DC fast charger is conveniently located. 

 

No need to top up...

15 minutes gets you 80%..

That is right NOW!  Today's battery tech and fast charging. 

And another thing, 

Regular EVs right now have a range of 250-300 miles.  Uber EVs are pushing 400 plus miles. Some claim 500.  Others are pursuing 600 and more (Mercedes and surprise...BMW)

EVs right NOW are on par with ICE ranges with 300 miles...

Common, CCAP...   You know that what you are spewing is just shyte fear mongering...

18 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That's a great question but I do know you're always supposed to bring it back full, I'd assume the same would go for EVs, or they charge you an absurd amount per kilowatt to recharge. 

Again, this goes back to savings and convenience for the renter. If a rental company is going to jack up the price per Kw, like they do for gasoline, I'd assume AT LEAST $0.50/Kw. There goes any savings over a comparable ICE vehicle. 

That is the cost of doing business...   Its a service and a commodity. 

However, the free market system and competition always finds a way to compensate or reward a frequent user...

 Herz and lets say Hilton Hotels and Shell and a consortium of public charging stations could have a loyalty program or package or something...  as an example...

29 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think it'll be that way within the next five years though.

Rome wasnt built in a day.

And gasoline stations werent built to as ubiquitous as they are today in just 5 years either.

But by 2035-2040 though...  

And gasoline wont be as cheap as it is now. 

You think gasoline will be purposely cheap or expensive when an agenda to go all EV will be?

[ccap41]

Nobody ever wants to spend time charging and EV or refueling an ICE vehicle. Ever. BY FAR AND AWAY the  biggest advantage to an EV is that you never need to spend that time at a public charger/gas station and it saves you money. If you eliminate that aspect, what's the benefit of an EV? 

[ccap41]

7 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

No need to top up...

15 minutes gets you 80%..

That is right NOW!  Today's battery tech and fast charging. 

1: according to Hertz's website, it takes an hour for 200 miles of range, 30 minutes for 100 miles, 15 minutes nets you 50 miles. This is only with a Supercharger. 

2: the GM EV's, to the best of my knowledge, do not charge as fast as Teslas currently do. I could be wrong, but that would mean more time than a Tesla. Teslas can charge at a rate of 250kw and the Equinox EV can charge at a rate of 150kw. 

Looking at this more, Hertz is WAY off. Tesla is claiming 200 miles of added range in 15 minutes. If that truly is the case, you only need to spend 5 minutes charging and therefore that is not inconvenient. 

17 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Rome wasnt built in a day.

And gasoline stations werent built to as ubiquitous as they are today in just 5 years either.

But by 2035-2040 though...  

And gasoline wont be as cheap as it is now. 

You think gasoline will be purposely cheap or expensive when an agenda to go all EV will be?

Oh I agree. I don't think this renting EV thing is a bad thing in a "forever" type of situation. I just think it will make it more of a pain for users within the timeframe of them getting 175,000 units to rent out. 2035-2040, I don't think it'll be an issue even in the slightest. 2025, I still think it'll be inconvenient for renters over ICE. 

[ccap41]

19 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Common, CCAP...   You know that what you are spewing is just shyte fear mongering...

There is ZERO fear here. I'm simply stating that if I rented a Bolt or Equinox EV in 2023 (when they're available) it will, without a doubt, be more of a pain in the arse than if I rented a comparable ICE vehicle. 

Nothing you guys have said will make it more convenient next year to rent an EV without being able to charge overnight, at home, where EVs truly separate themselves from ICE vehicles. 

[G. David Felt]

49 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

At least in other countries, they charge you, like they do for ICE vehicles to fuel up.

https://images.hertz.com/pdfs/ENGB_EV_RENTAL_TERMS.pdf

We will record the EV’s battery status before we rent the EV to you and measure it when you return the EV. We ask you to return the EV with at least the same level of charge or 75% (whichever is lower). If you return the EV with a level of charge lower than this then we will recharge the EV for you at the rate of €0.80/sterling equivalent (inc VAT) per kW/h. e.g. 75% on rent charge – 55% return charge = 20% 20% x 100% battery capacity = 20 20 x 0.8€ = 16€ Recharging fee. If the EV battery status is below 20% on return an Administration Charge will apply in addition to the recharging fee because this increases our turn around times and involves staff time. Administration Charge = +€25 (inc VAT)

No. Sht.

That's the whole point I'm trying to make. ICE for rentals is quicker and more simple for the one paying the money to rent a vehicle. 

I know damn well that if I'm on vacation the last thing I want to do is wait for a car to charge. 

It has nothing to do with instant "gratification". It's just fueling a vehicle up. Literally nobody in the world WANTS to be doing that at any given point, ICE or EV. That's why EVs are so damn convenient for everyday use where people like you, Olds, and myself can charge from home and always leave with a full "tank". Renters do not have that luxury. they have to go into an app, in car or on their phone, find a charger, and wait. Some are at perfectly convenient locations, and some are not. 

Thank you for posting about outside of the U.S., interesting to see and on par with gas charging. Weird since it is so much cheaper than gas to do even with the wait time. 

Waiting to charge a car is longer than fueling a car if you can just pull up. Yet with that said, the Costco Gas site by the Maui airport where my kids took my wife and I this year to celebrate our 30th wedding anniversary was a 20 min wait in line, another 10 minutes to fuel the auto, then off to the airport, so 30 minutes to get cheaper gas than what they charge you at the airport. Still took time and if the vacation time with your family and friends is more important, than like the gas, bringing it back empty and paying Hertz to fuel it is part of the vacation cost then is how I see it.

So in that case, instant gratification as my vacation time is more important than the cost is how I would look at it. Since we had an afternoon flight out and had to leave our AirBNB rental by 11am, it was convenient to just stop, fuel, drop the auto and keys off and head to the airport.

I see both sides of the coin. The businessman in me sees the increased profits and reduced maintenance of EVs for this over ICE and I can see why Hertz is doing it.

[ccap41]

10 minutes ago, David said:

Waiting to charge a car is longer than fueling a car if you can just pull up. Yet with that said, the Costco Gas site by the Maui airport where my kids took my wife and I this year to celebrate our 30th wedding anniversary was a 20 min wait in line, another 10 minutes to fuel the auto, then off to the airport, so 30 minutes to get cheaper gas than what they charge you at the airport

Everybody knows Costco's super cheap fuel prices aren't the norm and the lines there are equally abnormal. 

The situation where it takes 30 minutes to fuel up an ICE vehicle is an anomaly and it's almost the norm when publicly charging an EV.  

[smk4565]

19 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

I do not know what you mean by that. 

Either you mean it

1. that a contract lasting 5 years is a long time.                                                                                                              or
2. that you think the contracts starts 5 years from now.   

   

Im thinking you are thinking its option #2.  But the contract starts now OVER the next 5 years it says.  Technically it starts the first quarter of 2023.   Up to 175 000 EVs of all kinds.  A drop in the bucket but its still 1750 000 units.  It will help with monies coming in and factories producing regardless the amount...   For the next 5 years...

I mean 5 years is a long time to buy "up to 175,000 cars."   Not sure if that is because Hertz only buys so many cars a year or GM can't produce that many that fast.  But GM should be able to make million EV's a year soon and if they are going to be mostly EV by 2030, that is like 5 million a year.  

[G. David Felt]

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I mean 5 years is a long time to buy "up to 175,000 cars."   Not sure if that is because Hertz only buys so many cars a year or GM can't produce that many that fast.  But GM should be able to make million EV's a year soon and if they are going to be mostly EV by 2030, that is like 5 million a year.  

I have to think that GM has shared their EV roadmap with Hertz under NDA and as such, the 5 years is based on buying each new EV released so they have a wide assortment of EVs. 

I honestly see no problem of buying the 175,000 EVs over the next 5 years. GM says they will have ramped up to be able to start producing 1 million EVs a year by the end of 2025.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[G. David Felt]

@ccap41 @Drew Dowdell @oldshurst442 @surreal1272 @A Horse With No Name
Hertz has signed a deal with BP to build a National Network in North America of Fast EV Chargers that will be tied into all Hertz EV rentals for knowing where to get a fast charge and BP has stated for a fee, these chargers will be open to the public for fast charging.

Hertz, bp collaborate to accelerate EV charging in North America | Hertz Global Holdings, Inc.

QUOTE: The agreement also involves the management of Hertz’s charging infrastructure by bp pulse and the customization of its Omega software to ensure Hertz’s growing fleet of electric rental cars are recharged quickly and efficiently between rentals. Omega supports fleet operations by automating charging when the power price is low, while providing real-time visibility to EVs, chargers, power usage, and more.

Quote: 

Bernard Looney, bp chief executive, said: “It’s brilliant to be joining forces with Hertz – quite simply, they are one of the biggest names on the road. Working together to deliver charging facilities and design solutions, we believe we can take the EV driving experience to the next level for US customers. And this is just the start for bp pulse in the United States.”    

bp acquired fleet charging and energy management company Amply Power in 2021 as part of its commitment to grow mobility and fleet products and services in North America. Amply Power, now rebranded as bp pulse, began installing charging infrastructure at 25 Hertz rental locations in multiple states in 2022. 

This should put to rest any concerns by anyone about renting an EV when you can Fast Charge at Hertz locations as well as many of thousands of other places.

QUOTE: bp pulse is expanding its global network of high-speed charging for cars, light commercial vehicles, and trucks, with a global target of more than 100,000 chargers by 2030, with about 90% of those rapid or ultra-fast chargers. The company also is partnering with fleet operators to accelerate the electric transformation of their fleets.

IMHO

Electricity is the new Oil Barrons of the Future. Just like Shell that has been buying up charging companies across Europe, Asia and the Americas. BP and others are also seeing the writing on the wall. Oil will always be here as it is used in tons of other products, but the auto industry days of ICE are tagged for replacement by EVs and Electrical charging.

Knowing that it takes a bit of time to Charge, Hertz is having Relaxing Massage chairs for people to rest in.

If you want to check out a Chinese made EV, then head to Hertz and rent one.

[ccap41]

Is the Polestar made in China? If so, I never realized this. 

[G. David Felt]

24 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Is the Polestar made in China? If so, I never realized this. 

Yes, Once the Chinese parent company bought Volvo and Polestar, they choose to move the Polestar division to China and make it a pure EV performance line built in China. That is my understanding of the purchase of those two companies.

Geely is the parent owner of those two auto companies.

[ccap41]

2 hours ago, David said:

Yes, Once the Chinese parent company bought Volvo and Polestar, they choose to move the Polestar division to China and make it a pure EV performance line built in China. That is my understanding of the purchase of those two companies.

Geely is the parent owner of those two auto companies.

Ahhhh thank you for the information. That's a bummer. 

[G. David Felt]

23 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Ahhhh thank you for the information. That's a bummer. 

I was at one time excited about Polestar and trying out their EV as a possible on my list to buy. Now, NOPE, Not Gonna Happen. Where at all possible, I am avoiding buying anything from China.

[ccap41]

28 minutes ago, David said:

I was at one time excited about Polestar and trying out their EV as a possible on my list to buy. Now, NOPE, Not Gonna Happen. Where at all possible, I am avoiding buying anything from China.

I don't actively shop against Chinese made things, unless its a very large purchase, like this. If I happen to notice something is Chinese made, I'll try and avoid it, but I won't go overly out of my way to do so. 

[oldshurst442]

7 hours ago, David said:

Knowing that it takes a bit of time to Charge, Hertz is having Relaxing Massage chairs for people to rest in.

 

 Is that Tom Brady?  He looks nice and calm here.  

 

But then again, that picturer was probably taken before last week's game...

 

 

Id get this guy that chair on the sidelines...

[oldshurst442]

7 hours ago, David said:

Hertz has signed a deal with BP to build a National Network in North America of Fast EV Chargers that will be tied into all Hertz EV rentals for knowing where to get a fast charge and BP has stated for a fee, these chargers will be open to the public for fast charging.

 

I called it...   From this thread.

On 9/22/2022 at 12:38 PM, oldshurst442 said:

However, the free market system and competition always finds a way to compensate or reward a frequent user...

 Herz and lets say Hilton Hotels and Shell and a consortium of public charging stations could have a loyalty program or package or something...  as an example...

 

And it didnt take long to sign up a deal like that either. Not even a week.   

Its not rocket science to figure out that stuff like this WILL happen.

The whole world is demanding this change from ICEV to EV.

Trillions upon trillions of dollars of many sectors are being spent and will be spent to make this change. 

Its only logic that if not for idiot politicians to make this happen, but for global big business to bring us these solutions to make this transition.

Its OK NOT to have faith in dummy politicians. But corporate big wigs get paid the BIIIIG bucks for solutions.  

I think the switch to EVs will happen sooner than later. I have had this feeling for a good 2 years about. I was skeptical before then, but I see the global change and how solutions are presented and executed (with all the technologies and business ventures and all) and I know this change to EVs will happen sooner than we think. 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

I called it...   From this thread.

 

And it didnt take long to sign up a deal like that either. Not even a week.   

Its not rocket science to figure out that stuff like this WILL happen.

The whole world is demanding this change from ICEV to EV.

Trillions upon trillions of dollars of many sectors are being spent and will be spent to make this change. 

Its only logic that if not for idiot politicians to make this happen, but for global big business to bring us these solutions to make this transition.

Its OK NOT to have faith in dummy politicians. But corporate big wigs get paid the BIIIIG bucks for solutions.  

I think the switch to EVs will happen sooner than later. I have had this feeling for a good 2 years about. I was skeptical before then, but I see the global change and how solutions are presented and executed (with all the technologies and business ventures and all) and I know this change to EVs will happen sooner than we think. 

Agree totally that it will happen much faster than many believe. 

Yes, we will have ICE Heritage around for a long time, but even then, I also believe that ICE Heritage will be re-powered to be EV-Heritage with e-crate solutions too.

Options is all it will take, and I think this is the one time that GM will not back off or just play games but follow through on low to high-cost EV solutions for all.

I think some companies that are at the top will not be there as hydrogen is not the solution nor is hybrids and as such, some top companies are going to drop down and others are going to go away. 

We have a major auto company consolidation coming as there are too many Legacies Auto companies just as there are too many EV startups. Many will not survive the next decade.

[oldshurst442]

This massive switch to EVs world wide wont be left to chance.

Like I said, trillions of dollars are being spent to make this happen globally.  This switch wont be left for the general population to have a failure on their hands.  There will be compromises made. Maybe...

The failures will be on some corporations not making it. But the ones remaining will be the new titans going forward in the future.

Sears, Blockbuster, Duesenberg, AMC, SAAB are some of the past titans that didnt make it into our future.  Amazon and Netflix and Tesla are some of the present and future titans to take us into the next 100 years... 

Ironically though, all the anti-EV rhetoric from fear mongering opportunists are actually making OEMs to produce EVs to be better than the ICEV ten fold.

From acceleration times.  

To range.

EVs, with all the FUD range anxiety crap that is STILL being presented to us with charging times and all, OEMs are trying to get batteries to have 1000 mile ranges.  Batteries that do NOT degrade with heat or cold. Batteries to have an almost limitless times of recharging.  

To have EVs recharging on the go with solar power or on the road...

These engineers are using all the whiny bullshyte to engineer unstoppable EVs to be one million times better, more efficient, faster vehicles than the internal combustion engined ones that they are going to replace. And all those improvements aimed for the next 5-10 years to boot...

 

[G. David Felt]

19 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

This massive switch to EVs world wide wont be left to chance.

Like I said, trillions of dollars are being spent to make this happen globally.  This switch wont be left for the general population to have a failure on their hands.  There will be compromises made. Maybe...

The failures will be on some corporations not making it. But the ones remaining will be the new titans going forward in the future.

Sears, Blockbuster, Duesenberg, AMC, SAAB are some of the past titans that didnt make it into our future.  Amazon and Netflix and Tesla are some of the present and future titans to take us into the next 100 years... 

Ironically though, all the anti-EV rhetoric from fear mongering opportunists are actually making OEMs to produce EVs to be better than the ICEV ten fold.

From acceleration times.  

To range.

EVs, with all the FUD range anxiety crap that is STILL being presented to us with charging times and all, OEMs are trying to get batteries to have 1000 mile ranges.  Batteries that do NOT degrade with heat or cold. Batteries to have an almost limitless times of recharging.  

To have EVs recharging on the go with solar power or on the road...

These engineers are using all the whiny bullshyte to engineer unstoppable EVs to be one million times better, more efficient, faster vehicles than the internal combustion engined ones that they are going to replace. And all those improvements aimed for the next 5-10 years to boot...

 

As you say, FUD is what is driving Solid-state batteries that are anywhere from 4 times to 10 times denser than today's Lithium-ion batteries plus safer. I suspect EVs starting in 2026 will tend to go towards solid-state as their production comes online.

Example is the latest solid-state battery that charges in as little as 3 minutes is 4 times as dense and so if you had the battery pack the same size as current GMC Hummer, that is their current 210 kWH Lithium-ion battery pack would be a 840 kWH battery pack in solid state or from 329 MPGe to 1,316 MPGe. I doubt any sane person would have range anxiety, but they would probably complain about charging time.

Course so many people are ignorant to the fact that a Diesel semi-truck can easily take up to 1hr to fuel depending on if it is a regular truck,15 minutes, extra-large tanks, up to 30 minutes or long-haul tanks up to 1hr for about 400 gallons of diesel.

[oldshurst442]

@ccap41

You know dude...

Your downvotes dont do anything to negate what I say about you...

You downvote what I said, about you knowingly or mis-informingly transmitting FUD stupidly believing the shyte you write whether its done on purpose (trolling for your weekly entertainment) or just by you being ignorant...

But yet you upvote @David for basically believing what I say.  Maybe not about you, but about moronic people spewing FUD about EVs.  

Its funny to me.  You are lining up to be the next BLU.  No, your are NOT anti-EV, by the looks of it, on the surface, but you do like to spew some dumb a$$ anti-EV false rhetoric from time to time.   

You say to some other posters that living in the suburbs its easier to own an EV as these EV owners will most probably have a home charger yet FAIL to realize a worker dude travelling to a different city for a few weeks or so or a vacationing dude visiting a city will ALSO have a charger at their disposal via their hotel...   Its the SAME freakin' scaenario and I have mentioned that with SCENARIOS.  @Drew Dowdell used his OWN experiences to quell your idiotic notions but you fall back to an argument that has been squashed time and time again regarding range of EVs...  280-320 miles of average EV range today EQUALS ICE cars...   

Charging times have also been improved to where its not a problem...

Dude, you are 34 years old today.  Maybe its about time your internet persona acts his age...    

Facebook and MotorTrend pissing matches of who goads the other poster has been o thing of the past.  Its been dead for a looong while.  Maybe Facebook is still going on strong with that kind of childish environment. Keep that kind of crap there.  

Ill be civil towards you.  Ill engage with you without the aggressive nature. But as soon as I see you engage in idiocy, I wont back down.

Happy Birthday to you.

Another olive branch has been sent to you.

 

But its up to you to stop with the nonsense in here if you dont want me to be in your face. 

[ccap41]

11 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

But yet you upvote @David for basically believing what I say.  Maybe not about you, but about moronic people spewing FUD about EVs.

David talks to me like two people having a conversation and will post legitimate information with links.

You, do not. 

David and I were talking about the same exact thing you and I were yet you were just calling me names because you didn't agree with me. Okay, if you want to name call because our opinions are the same, don't expect to be treated the same way as somebody who talks respectfully and is informative. 

[ccap41]

14 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Its funny to me.  You are lining up to be the next BLU.  No, your are NOT anti-EV, by the looks of it, on the surface, but you do like to spew some dumb a$$ anti-EV false rhetoric from time to time.

And yet, nobody showed me how it is MORE convenient to RENT an EV than an ICE vehicle. 

Drew showed me how it wasn't bad to do, and I knew that. The hill I will die on is that in 2023(when the order will start to be fulfilled), it will still not be as convenient to rent an EV than it will be to rent a comparable ICE vehicle. 

16 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Charging times have also been improved to where its not a problem...

Yup, and the 4 drew showed me are about as slow as they get from a 220 plug, 6-13kw, if I remember correctly.

18 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Ill be civil towards you.

Nice and ironic of you, you called me idiotic within this same post. 

You can't just say you're being civil and that automatically makes you civil. 

[oldshurst442]

https://ca.yahoo.com/finance/news/chinese-carmakers-target-more-european-000000060.html

 

Several interesting things to come out of this article.

Chinese  EV OEMs want to sell tons of EVs in Europe and they are focusing on 3 things to impress European would be owners.

1. Affordable EVs

2. Lots if tech and gadgets

3. 5 star rated crash test EVs.   

GM and Hertz made a deal for 175 000 EVs a month or two ago. It would seem that BYD and Sixt view this business deal as 

It seems #3 looks to be a struggle though, but it looks like Chinese EV OEMs how found that recipe  for quality car making and their products to be  safe for European and American crash safety standards.   Chinese OEMs will put many Japanese, European AND American EV makers out to pasture and THAT is why GM and VW and others have commited to be full on EV full swing.   

 The thing that peaked my interest, and the reason why I posted this article here is this reason:

Fleet sales make up about half of all car sales in major markets including Germany, France and the United Kingdom, and many corporate buyers put a premium on safety.

"Fleet sales are very important and a lot of fleets have a mandatory five-star rating for buying cars," Avery said.

CAR RENTAL COMPANIES

What's more, many fleets want to switch to EVs fast to meet sustainability goals. But corporate fleets have struggled to get enough EVs in Europe as supply chain issues have pushed waiting times for some models to more than 12 months.

High demand for electric cars amid supply chain shortages has allowed European carmakers to raise EV prices and focus more on retail clients, rather than customers such as car rental firms that have traditionally been less profitable for them.

That has created a window of opportunity for Chinese EV makers that have already stolen a march on most foreign rivals in China, by far the world's biggest market for EVs.

In October, for instance, German car rental company Sixt said it would buy about 100,000 EVs from BYD , starting with its Atto 3 SUV which received the coveted Euro NCAP five-star rating the same month.

 

GM and Hertz made a deal for 175 000 EVs a month or two ago. It would seem that BYD and Sixt viewed that business deal as a way forward.  As a smart move.   

 

 

 

 

[G. David Felt]

12 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

https://ca.yahoo.com/finance/news/chinese-carmakers-target-more-european-000000060.html

 

Several interesting things to come out of this article.

Chinese  EV OEMs want to sell tons of EVs in Europe and they are focusing on 3 things to impress European would be owners.

1. Affordable EVs

2. Lots if tech and gadgets

3. 5 star rated crash test EVs.   

GM and Hertz made a deal for 175 000 EVs a month or two ago. It would seem that BYD and Sixt view this business deal as 

It seems #3 looks to be a struggle though, but it looks like Chinese EV OEMs how found that recipe  for quality car making and their products to be  safe for European and American crash safety standards.   Chinese OEMs will put many Japanese, European AND American EV makers out to pasture and THAT is why GM and VW and others have commited to be full on EV full swing.   

 The thing that peaked my interest, and the reason why I posted this article here is this reason:

Fleet sales make up about half of all car sales in major markets including Germany, France and the United Kingdom, and many corporate buyers put a premium on safety.

"Fleet sales are very important and a lot of fleets have a mandatory five-star rating for buying cars," Avery said.

CAR RENTAL COMPANIES

What's more, many fleets want to switch to EVs fast to meet sustainability goals. But corporate fleets have struggled to get enough EVs in Europe as supply chain issues have pushed waiting times for some models to more than 12 months.

High demand for electric cars amid supply chain shortages has allowed European carmakers to raise EV prices and focus more on retail clients, rather than customers such as car rental firms that have traditionally been less profitable for them.

That has created a window of opportunity for Chinese EV makers that have already stolen a march on most foreign rivals in China, by far the world's biggest market for EVs.

In October, for instance, German car rental company Sixt said it would buy about 100,000 EVs from BYD , starting with its Atto 3 SUV which received the coveted Euro NCAP five-star rating the same month.

 

GM and Hertz made a deal for 175 000 EVs a month or two ago. It would seem that BYD and Sixt viewed that business deal as a way forward.  As a smart move.   

 

 

 

 

I would agree that Chinese in the short term are willing to loose money to make market inroads to destroy and put out of business legacy ICE auto companies. It is all about the long view, legacy long term of a business that they want to destroy the competition to be the only choice around.

GM, VW, Ford, Kia, Hyundai are smart to make this move. I suspect we will see the Japanese auto companies die off by 2030 with only a few remaining.

Interesting times we live in for sure.