Pontiac Still Will Sell Front-Drive Cars

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Pontiac Spokesman Denies All Rear-Drive Future

Full Article At Ward's Auto

(An excerpt from a recent article at Ward's Auto states...)

"A spokesman downplays a recent media report suggesting Pontiac is mulling a plan to sell rear-wheel-drive vehicles exclusively. While Pontiac will look to add some RWD vehicles to help bolster its lineup, the division has no plans to abandon front-wheel drive, he says."

Edited June 16, 2006 by YellowJacket894

[Flybrian]

We kind of knew this because the Grand Am/G6 market is quite lucurative and cheap to build for.

[I hope GMRULES again]

I figured the "All RWD" talk was just rumors. It would of made no sense for Pontiac. They just need a few better executed products.

[DetroitNut90]

A volume FWD car makes sense since it would be cheaper to build and buy. I hope AWD is an option on it.

[Clownzilla]

A volume FWD car makes sense since it would be cheaper to build and buy. I hope AWD is an option on it.

I think that AWD needs to be an option on all the vehicles they build. Anyone think that this plan would be cost effective (and help sell more vehicles)? Kind of like an American Subaru (optional).

[Cadillacfan]

I think this is a mistake. Really, an all RWD lineup would give Pontiac an edge over other brands in it's price bracket. Though, I'm sure an all RWD lineup would hurt Pontiac's sales in the colder climates which could explain why they will only have a few RWD models.

[ShadowDog]

* in a rather monotone voice, "Like, wow...didn't see one that coming, at all."

[red]

...of course not, because management will continue to cave in to dealers and give them any brand-sapping rebadge they want.

[PurdueGuy]

I think an all RWD lineup would make TOO much sense for Pontiac. It would immidiately create their nitch in the market and reinforce their image as a performance brand. I could see a base FWD car, though. Realistically, it probably won't happen, as has been said.

[pow]

Yeah, Pontiac shouldn't neglect the growing segment of hot I4 FWD/AWD cars like the RSX, GTI, SRT-4, EVO, and WRX.

[Bimmer325]

Yeah, Pontiac shouldn't neglect the growing segment of hot I4 FWD/AWD cars like the RSX, GTI, SRT-4, EVO, and WRX.

If it means exploring a segment that NO ONE has touched, then why not?

Maybe it's time for GM to take a risk and actually create a trend.

Exploring uncharted market territory can be a fruitful thing, and if the prospect of compact, affordable rear-drive doesn't appeal to you, I'm not sure I can convince you otherwise. :wink:

[ocnblu]

(In response to article) Blah, whatever...

[hyperv6]

Yeah, Pontiac shouldn't neglect the growing segment of hot I4 FWD/AWD cars like the RSX, GTI, SRT-4, EVO, and WRX.

If Pontiac is to make it it needs to address cars like these and not with G6's and G5's. These are good cars but not great cars and can be bought cheaper as a Chevy.

If Pontiac was to live GM needs to let them be more than a fancy Chevy and beat the real compitition.

If they are going to charge 25-30K they need to off more than what they have been. Good is no longer Good enough.

[Imaj]

Like Dr. Becker used to say "No expectations, no dissapointments."

[titan]

I figured the "All RWD" talk was just rumors. It would of made no sense for Pontiac. They just need a few better executed products.

Agreed. There are many, many FWD midsizers people consider sporty and fun to drive. The G6 in particular should be FWD, but handle better and not be an Epsilon with a different face. Pontiacs should actually be engineered to be sporty cars.

[jbartley]

There is nothing wrong with a FWD G5/G6.

like mazda and audi, sporty can be FWD.

just the larger vehicles and coupes/roadsters should be true RWD

[Camino LS6]

I wouldn't close the book on this one yet.

[evok]

I wouldn't close the book on this one yet.

I would - Pontiac may ultimatly get some rwd vehicles but I would not count on the majority of volume for the brand coming from rwd anytime SOON.

[Camino LS6]

I would - Pontiac may ultimatly get some rwd vehicles but I would not count on the majority of volume for the brand coming from rwd anytime SOON.

Soon is relative. Any shift to an all RWD lineup would take years, even if the decision was made today. That doesn't make the idea a bad one. If this were to happen the overlap of FWD and RWD (with AWD as a wild card) would exist for some time - as it should. An all RWD lineup really makes sense for Pontiac for so many reasons expressed in other threads on this topic. I wouldn't advocate an all RWD plan for any other car division (except perhaps Caddy), but for Pontiac, It is an idea that is too logical too ignore. It gives Pontiac a reason to be.

[Cory Wolfe]

"I just got word that the Spokesperson for Pontiac was just murdered by a crazed 17 year old with this car they call a 'Millenia."

[evok]

Soon is relative. Any shift to an all RWD lineup would take years, even if the decision was made today. That doesn't make the idea a bad one. If this were to happen the overlap of FWD and RWD (with AWD as a wild card) would exist for some time - as it should. An all RWD lineup really makes sense for Pontiac for so many reasons expressed in other threads on this topic. I wouldn't advocate an all RWD plan for any other car division (except perhaps Caddy), but for Pontiac, It is an idea that is too logical too ignore. It gives Pontiac a reason to be.

Soon I would define as the next product cycle release + 5 years. And that is in a perfect world.

No one is debating the idea. It would surely give focus to the brand but that is no guarantee for success in the market, paritculary given the investment required.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Why not advance the G6 into something more of a Mazda 6/Mitsu Lancer fighter?!?!?

Why not a super powerful AWD flagship?!?!?!

I don't care if Pontiac sells FWD, that's fine because THAT's where the volume is... BUT, this delusional thinking that a reskinned 'Bu is something to pin "Performance Division" on is not going to cut it.

[Camino LS6]

Soon I would define as the next product cycle release + 5 years.  And that is in a perfect world.

No one is debating the idea.  It would surely give focus to the brand but that is no guarantee for success in the market, paritculary given the investment required.

I would agree that the timing you indicate is likely accurate to within a year or two to complete such a changeover. My guess is that it would be an evolutionary process with re-evaluation each year.

Some have debated the merits of the idea in this thread. Given the time it would require, I see a move in this direction as a win-win for Pontiac. They could push this idea forward one model at a time at a speed that the shifting market and their own reputation will allow.

[evok]

I would agree that the timing you indicate is likely accurate to within a year or two to complete such a changeover. My guess is that it would be an evolutionary process with re-evaluation each year.

Some have debated the merits of the idea in this thread. Given the time it would require, I see a move in this direction as a win-win for Pontiac. They could push this idea forward one model at a time at a speed that the shifting market and their own reputation will allow.

There just are no plans to move the volume product to rwd in the time period I mentioned. After that, 2015 or so is a long time and a lot can happen.

Closest in the next 4 years would be zeta and that will not be high volume??

[Robert Hall]

The reality is except for the Solstice, Pontiac for 2007 is an all FWD (with a couple AWDs) brand...I don't see that changing in the next few years...

[Camino LS6]

There just are no plans to move the volume product to rwd in the time period I mentioned.  After that, 2015 or so is a long time and a lot can happen.

Closest in the next 4 years would be zeta and that will not be high volume??

I don't see Pontiac maintaining volume either way, FWD or RWD. Especially if the GTO/RWD sedan are Holden-sourced (at first). Overall, the GMNA-built versions of Zeta (zeta II, global RWD, whatever you want to call it) should be volume products, but I doubt the Pontiacs will be.

[evok]

I don't see Pontiac maintaining volume either way, FWD or RWD. Especially if the GTO/RWD sedan are Holden-sourced (at first). Overall, the GMNA-built versions of Zeta (zeta II, global RWD, whatever you want to call it) should be volume products, but I doubt the Pontiacs will be.

True. If you look at retail sales of the current GP - they are only about 50k/year.

Any switch to rwd in that segment will not increase sales significantly - unless it is a break through product. Certainly a recyled Commodore would not be considered break through even as a near term solution.

Even looking at the B-P-GMC Division as a total unit and trying to balance their complete portfolio to maintain current sales - I just do not see it happening. It would be one thing if the mid sized SUV market did not collapse and killed any gains the Arcadia might have made. The Buick Enclave might add 10-20 to Rendevous number but will have to subrtact out the Raineir volume. The G5 migh add 30k unit of questionable profitablity to the bottom line. Might I add the loss of 10k from the GTO next year. And sooner than later the novelty of the new 900 utlities will wear off and this year so far they are only on par with last year in sales.

Tough call - what the best solution for the B-P-GMC Division and how Pontiac best fits into it.

[CaddyXLR-V]

True.  If you look at retail sales of the current GP - they are only about 50k/year.

Any switch to rwd in that segment will not increase sales significantly - unless it is a break through product.  Certainly a recyled Commodore would not be considered break through even as a near term solution.

Even looking at the B-P-GMC Division as a total unit and trying to balance their complete portfolio to maintain current sales - I just do not see it happening.  It would be one thing if the mid sized SUV market did not collapse and killed any gains the Arcadia might have made.  The Buick Enclave might add 10-20 to Rendevous number but will have to subrtact out the Raineir volume.  The G5 migh add 30k unit of questionable profitablity to the bottom line. Might I add the loss of 10k from the GTO next year.  And sooner than later the novelty of the new 900 utlities will wear off and this year so far they are only on par with last year in sales.

Tough call - what the best solution for the B-P-GMC Division and how Pontiac best fits into it.

Sales are going to continue to fall, and I don't believe there really is a way to stop that. With the Malibu being updated, and now Saturn with the Aura, G6 sales will probably decline as well.

GM has alot of divisions, and they cant all be volume divisions, unless they are all selling the same types of cars. Scion wouldn't be able to grow too much without cutting into Toyota's sales either. Pontiac and Buick need to find their niche and stick to it. Neither will ever be Chevy or Cadillac. Sales will drop, but whos to say they shouldn't have dropped already, and that they are artificially inflated by taking sales away from Chevy?

[Camino LS6]

True.  If you look at retail sales of the current GP - they are only about 50k/year.

Any switch to rwd in that segment will not increase sales significantly - unless it is a break through product.  Certainly a recyled Commodore would not be considered break through even as a near term solution.

Even looking at the B-P-GMC Division as a total unit and trying to balance their complete portfolio to maintain current sales - I just do not see it happening.  It would be one thing if the mid sized SUV market did not collapse and killed any gains the Arcadia might have made.  The Buick Enclave might add 10-20 to Rendevous number but will have to subrtact out the Raineir volume.  The G5 migh add 30k unit of questionable profitablity to the bottom line. Might I add the loss of 10k from the GTO next year.  And sooner than later the novelty of the new 900 utlities will wear off and this year so far they are only on par with last year in sales.

Tough call - what the best solution for the B-P-GMC Division and how Pontiac best fits into it.

The upside could be that Pontiac is the one division GM might be able to take risks with. I think they have to.

[PONTIAC06]

The upside could be that Pontiac is the one division GM might be able to take risks with. I think they have to.

I agree...but they got burned with the Aztek and are too scared to try something risky again...fortunately if Pontiac is going to survive then they will have to and this is the kind of risk they should take...as far as I am concerned Pontiac doesn't need to be a volume brand...just a profitable one...And, if they have awesome products and a good brand image based on RWD that will help both sales and profitablity...AWD would be a good option on cars like the NG G6 and G8...just to please us northerners that can't control the rear wheels in snow...

Edited June 16, 2006 by PONTIAC06

[evok]

The upside could be that Pontiac is the one division GM might be able to take risks with. I think they have to.

Without getting into the science of speculation:

1) GM is strapped for investment cash.

2) GM would have to invest in many more products to compensate for the lost Pontiac volume in the B-P-GMC Division to balance that.

3) RWD is cool in theory and support it but it is no gurantee for success of the Pontiac brand.

4) GM does not have a suitable rwd platform below zeta.

5) GM is strapped for investment cash.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

If it means exploring a segment that NO ONE has touched, then why not? 

Maybe it's time for GM to take a risk and actually create a trend. 

Exploring uncharted market territory can be a fruitful thing, and if the prospect of compact, affordable rear-drive doesn't appeal to you, I'm not sure I can convince you otherwise.  :wink:

I've been thinking that all along-I'm torn on what to do with Pontiac-I'd love to see them produce a FWD/AWD sports compact line to compete perfectly with Mazda 3, styled and named after the 2000 Piranha concept car. I'd also like to see a Saturn Evoke (Astra 2010 or so), but if that came in pair of hatchbacks, wagon, and LWB or other sedan, it could be done. But Pontiac, if they REALLY have to have a couple FWD cars, make a Piranha and G6 replacement-leave the rest to Chevy, Saturn, and in more luxurious cases, Buick.

[ShadowDog]

Without getting into the science of speculation:

1) GM is strapped for investment cash.

2) GM would have to invest in many more products to compensate for the lost Pontiac volume in the B-P-GMC Division to balance that.

3) RWD is cool in theory and support it but it is no gurantee for success of the Pontiac brand.

4) GM does not have a suitable rwd platform below zeta.

5) GM is strapped for investment cash.

Soo, I gather it's safe to assume that by the time something along the lines of this all-RWD theory comes to pass, the majority of car owners will be enjoying their flying cars from Toyota?

[hyperv6]

There is nothing wrong with a FWD G5/G6.

like mazda and audi, sporty can be FWD.

just the larger vehicles and coupes/roadsters should be true RWD

They are ok cars but for the price they are asking they are not up to the FWD compitition they are up against.

I guess what I am saying is they are good cars when Pontiac needs great cars right now.

If you expect someone to pay 25k plus for a G6 you better give them more car than they are now.

[Chicagoland]

Pontiac is not a luxury/high priced make. It isn't the 1960's and gas is never going to be 35 cents a gallon, so no they can't offer only RWD/V8's.

Many buyers are not drag racers looking to jack up the rear end and add slicks to their new car. So offering RWD/FWD/AWD covers all the bases.

[Petra]

Sales are going to continue to fall, and I don't believe there really is a way to stop that.

I think that is a point that bears repeating. Pontiac will never sell as many vehicles as they did twenty or thirty years ago (same goes for Buick). As each GM brand becomes more and more of niche brand in terms of volume, it only makes more sense to build a stronger brand identity. And the best way to do that, in Pontiac's case, would be to develop a lineup with more RWD models. Not necessarily all RWD, as that is obviously out of the question. Just more.

Of course, the trouble with niche brands is that it is difficult for their models to be profitable... Ask anybody who worked at Saturn in the '90's. My suggestion: Go back to the way things were in the '60's. Give each brand a basic platform and a broad set of parameters to use, and let them build their own car onto it from there. Smart platform sharing, you might say. Unfortunately, I don't really foresee this happening.

Edited June 17, 2006 by Petra

[-Camaro-]

I think this is a mistake.  Really, an all RWD lineup would give Pontiac an edge over other brands in it's price bracket.  Though, I'm sure an all RWD lineup would hurt Pontiac's sales in the colder climates which could explain why they will only have a few RWD models.

Me too... They should have all RWD with an AWD option on all of their cars.

[ehaase]

I don't think that there is a large enough market for a small RWD sedan/coupe platform for the prices that could be charged for a Pontiac (probably $20,000 to $28,000), considering the billions it would cost to develop. Such a platform would be more complex than the Kappa. GM would probably not generate the prices nor the worldwide volume that BMW, Mercedes, and Toyota get out of their small RWD platforms, even if shared with Cadillac and/or Holden.

I prefer to keep the G6 FWD, keep the Vibe, have the Solstice, and replace the Grand Prix and GTO with a SWB Zeta built in North America.

The G6 and its predecessor have been core models for Pontiac for over 20 years, and dropping it would be risky.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Vibe's glory days ended when Pontiac just HAD to add 3 grey colors and facelift it with a blander grille for 2005. Move it to Chevrolet, and base it on Delta or 2011 Cobalt platform or whatever.

[ehaase]

It doesn't matter to me if the Vibe is a Chevrolet or Pontiac, but it is more fuel efficient than anything GM sells now. If marketed properly, it should sell much better than it does.

Edited June 17, 2006 by ehaase

[Flybrian]

It doesn't matter to me if the Vibe is a Chevrolet or Pontiac, but it is more fuel efficient than anything GM sells now.  If marketed properly, it should sell much better than it does.

Heh. You said the Aveo was a disgrace, which is what I was trying to quote.

Don't worry, I agree. Its sad because its arguably the best subcompact on the market except for its fuel efficiency, which is alot like saying the Cadillac So-and-So is the best luxury car on the market except you can't get leather seats, a V8, or a CD player.

[ehaase]

Heh. You said the Aveo was a disgrace, which is what I was trying to quote.

Don't worry, I agree. Its sad because its arguably the best subcompact on the market except for its fuel efficiency, which is alot like saying the Cadillac So-and-So is the best luxury car on the market except you can't get leather seats, a V8, or a CD player.

Well, I edited my message because I don't want to offend anyone. I often edit my messages a few minutes after I type them. However, a vehicle the size of the Aveo should get at least 30 mpg city and over 40 on the highway.

[hyperv6]

If anyone wants to see what Pontiac needs to do if it make a FWD look at the new Civic Type R or Subaru line up. The Legacy is one vastly over looked FWD car.

Pontiac has to do better than a warmer over Malibu and Cobalt.

Even the original Tempest took some chances to be different than the Corvair and it is time to return to that thinking.

Pontiac to survive need to do more than rob sales from Chevy and lose sales to Saturn. And AWD alone will not save them either.

Pontiac need to be made relivent and make a bigger profit and who cares what the volume is as long as the money is coming in.

[xdre]

If anyone wants to see what Pontiac needs to do if it make a FWD look at the new Civic Type R or Subaru line up. The Legacy is one vastly over looked FWD car.

Er, the Legacy hasn't been available as FWD in the US since the mid-90's.

But I agree with your point, which is why I'm totally perplexed as to why the G5 won't be available with either a S/C or turbo Ecotec engine.

Edited June 19, 2006 by xdre

[hyperv6]

Er, the Legacy hasn't been available as FWD in the US since the mid-90's.

But I agree with your point, which is why I'm totally perplexed as to why the G5 won't be available with either a S/C or turbo Ecotec engine. 

It is not going to be around that long and GM does not plan to develope it much since they replacment is already in the works a few years from now. It was only to patch a hole in the line up for now.

I know the Legacy is AWD only but you get the point on how it is a much better car than most out there in the mid size aedan class.

[xdre]

It is not going to be around that long and GM does not plan to develope it much since they replacment is already in the works a few years from now. It was only to patch a hole in the line up for now.

Yeah, but there's not much to develop; I mean, the engines are already there. It just doesn't feel well thought-out on GM's part, even if it is a stopgap car.

[lostletters]

I think this is a mistake.  Really, an all RWD lineup would give Pontiac an edge over other brands in it's price bracket.  Though, I'm sure an all RWD lineup would hurt Pontiac's sales in the colder climates which could explain why they will only have a few RWD models.

153471[/snapback]

Taking Pontiacs largest market is in Chicago, and Chicago is the big market for the G6 having rear wheel drive across the brand would be a mistake. The G6 has basically cracked into the same midsize market as the Altima, which is a market GM was almost nonexistant in before.

But having an AWD/RWD model for the G8, Solstice and GTO/FIREBIRD/WHATEVER would be a better option.

The one problem I think is with the G5. They can do FWD performance oriented compact to compete with the Japanese pocket rockets. Instead of the Cobalt ripoff it currently is. Small sporty cars is definately a problem with GM right now accross the board, and this includes fuel economy.

Edited August 31, 2006 by lostletters