GM News: GM and Honda Will Codevelop Affordable EVs Targeting the World’s Most Popular Vehicle Segments

[smk4565]

54 minutes ago, David said:

Doubt this will ever happen, even if his social media and financial blast that next year he will deliver his truck, semi and roadster plus a possible robo taxi and android, I doubt more than one of these will really happen and his 2% market share will be threatened by the ICE OEMs. 

As more BEVs come out and get reviews like this where an ICE has been converted to BEV and it is better than Tesla, Tesla stale lineup will falter for the common shopper, only the fanatical people who think Tesla is the only BEV anyone should own and Musk is God will buy.

Hyundai Ioniq 5 Electric SUV Interior Review: Big, Comfy, and Clean (businessinsider.com)

Tesla could take a lesson from Hyundai on their interior space and true flat floor, for that matter pretty much all OEMs could learn from them especially the Germans where they still have a center bump.

 

Talk about serious floor space.

Maybe the OEMs will catch up.  But Tesla sold 110,000 cars in the USA in Q1, Ford sold 6,700 Mach-E's, Kia 5,281 EV6 and Hyundai 2700 Ionic 5, VW with 2755 id4's.   They aren't really threatening Tesla at all.

Although I think for Tesla to hit 20% share, they can't have their cheapest Crossover be $64,000 and their base model a $48,000 rear drive sedan, because the snow belt will want AWD, and an AWD Model 3 is like $55k.  They will have to come out with an entry level model to get market share.

[ccap41]

13 hours ago, David said:

especially the Germans where they still have a center bump.

Why Especially the Germans? The Silverado/Sierra, Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade, Blazer, Trailblazer. and Coloado/Canyon all have humps in the rear floor. 

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Why Especially the Germans? The Silverado/Sierra, Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade, Blazer, Trailblazer. and Coloado/Canyon all have humps in the rear floor. 

He is talking about EVs. 

[Drew Dowdell]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Why Especially the Germans? The Silverado/Sierra, Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade, Blazer, Trailblazer. and Coloado/Canyon all have humps in the rear floor. 

Huh?

no they don't, not on the larger ones. Canyonado has a small one.

2021 Tahoe.

 

2021 Blazer

Or are we talking a different location?  But even the third rows and cargo areas are flat. 

[ccap41]

35 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Huh?

no they don't, not on the larger ones. Canyonado has a small one.

2021 Tahoe.

 

2021 Blazer

Or are we talking a different location?  But even the third rows and cargo areas are flat. 

Thanks, I definitely looked at pictures of everything before commenting but they certainly did not look like those. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Even my '13 Avalanche has just a very minor hump in the center. Nothing an adult sitting there would complain about. 

[ccap41]

11 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Even my '13 Avalanche has just a very minor hump in the center. Nothing an adult sitting there would complain about. 

Well, David would if the same exact hump were in anything from Europe. 

[Drew Dowdell]

12 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Well, David would if the same exact hump were in anything from Europe. 

He'd be right on Benz.  Not on BMW or Audi.

The GLS has a really old-school transmission hump in the 2nd row.

[G. David Felt]

30 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Well, David would if the same exact hump were in anything from Europe. 

I am not as @surreal1272 stated talking about the driveline humps of ICE, but EVs. It is surprising how many auto companies and that does include the Germans who have decided they do not need to give a flat floor and instead are using the humps as a way to just run wires from front to back.

It would seem as I posted that the Koreans took the time to actually maximize interior space.

[ccap41]

2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

He'd be right on Benz.  Not on BMW or Audi.

The GLS has a really old-school transmission hump in the 2nd row.

That wasn't what I meant by that. 

I was just saying he would be okay with it in an Avalanche or anything from GM, but that same size hump he would complain about in anything from Europe. 

Funny enough, looking at weathertech for good pictures, it looks like the older GL-Class had less of a hump than the newer GLS. Not by a ton, but it looks lower from their pictures. But also, looking at all three of them X7, Q7, and GLS, they all have a little hump in the middle of the 2nd row. 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

That wasn't what I meant by that. 

I was just saying he would be okay with it in an Avalanche or anything from GM, but that same size hump he would complain about in anything from Europe. 

Funny enough, looking at weathertech for good pictures, it looks like the older GL-Class had less of a hump than the newer GLS. Not by a ton, but it looks lower from their pictures. But also, looking at all three of them X7, Q7, and GLS, they all have a little hump in the middle of the 2nd row. 

You would be wrong my friend, as a GM product today that has a hump especially in the back passenger area is NOT acceptable to me for ICE or EV.

I see no reason for any hump to really exist in today's current ICE product. Especially an AWD auto, you can do it without the hump.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

That wasn't what I meant by that. 

I was just saying he would be okay with it in an Avalanche or anything from GM, but that same size hump he would complain about in anything from Europe. 

Maybe the best action would have been to not assume his intent.

Edited April 11, 2022 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

12 minutes ago, David said:

You would be wrong my friend, as a GM product today that has a hump especially in the back passenger area is NOT acceptable to me for ICE or EV.

I see no reason for any hump to really exist in today's current ICE product. Especially an AWD auto, you can do it without the hump.

So what does a Cadillac CT5 or Camaro do?  What are they supposed to do with the drive axel in a rear drive car?

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, smk4565 said:

So what does a Cadillac CT5 or Camaro do?  What are they supposed to do with the drive axel in a rear drive car?

We're talking SUVs. 

[ccap41]

17 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Maybe the best action would have been to not assume his intent.

Thank you for the useful input. 

His intent is obvious in every thread. 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by ccap41

[Robert Hall]

26 minutes ago, David said:

 

I see no reason for any hump to really exist in today's current ICE product. Especially an AWD auto, you can do it without the hump.

The hump is there for the driveshaft (got those in RWD and AWD) or exhaust routing for FWD...can't have a completely flat floor and still have decent ground clearance. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Robert Hall

[ccap41]

Personally, I don't really care about a 2-3 inch hump for whatever needs to go through there. It impedes next to nothing on a regular basis. A 6 inch bump? That would be bothersome more regularly. 

I don't even know if my MKC or Escape had one. I'll have to look for pictures online, they probably do. 

[Robert Hall]

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Personally, I don't really care about a 2-3 inch hump for whatever needs to go through there. It impedes next to nothing on a regular basis. A 6 inch bump? That would be bothersome more regularly. 

I don't even know if my MKC or Escape had one. I'll have to look for pictures online, they probably do. 

The floor hump in front of the back seat has never been an issue for me, I don't ride in the back seat, and most of the time in my Jeep the seat is folded down, so a non-issue for me. 

[ccap41]

1 minute ago, Robert Hall said:

The floor hump in front of the back seat has never been an issue for me, I don't ride in the back seat, and most of the time in my Jeep the seat is folded down, so a non-issue for me. 

Yeah, I can't remember a time when it got in the way. Anybody who's regularly seating 3 wide in the middle row likely had a 3-row SUV and is then not utilizing the middle seat anyway and, if they are, it's for a child or very occasional adult. 

I could see utilizing it more in a truck where the whole back seat folds up and there's a large open area on the floor, for things I didn't want in the bed. That could be a hinderance if there was a hump all along the middle. 

[G. David Felt]

24 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

The hump is there for the driveshaft (got those in RWD and AWD) or exhaust routing for FWD...can't have a completely flat floor and still have decent ground clearance. 

In cars yes, but for trucks and SUVs especially if body on frame, NO there is no need for it and yes one can still have proper ground clearance.

27 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Thank you for the useful input. 

His intent is obvious in every thread. 

WOW, so you can read my mind before I know my mind. You really are making assumptions that would not hold true.

[oldshurst442]

 

 

[G. David Felt]

12 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, I can't remember a time when it got in the way. Anybody who's regularly seating 3 wide in the middle row likely had a 3-row SUV and is then not utilizing the middle seat anyway and, if they are, it's for a child or very occasional adult. 

I could see utilizing it more in a truck where the whole back seat folds up and there's a large open area on the floor, for things I didn't want in the bed. That could be a hinderance if there was a hump all along the middle. 

You have never really had to deal with a hump. As a tall 12 year old boy, 6' tall then, my older sisters always got to sit on the window sides of the auto leaving me in my parents Olds Delta 98 sitting over the hump. I have years wondering why and as I learned about cars, I understood the hump for the driveline in a car. 

Yet as one that always owned trucks and SUVs, body on frame, it always made me shake my head as to the lazy engineering to keep a hump in a truck or SUV that is not needed based on body on frame.

There are far better ways to engineer autos than just to take the lazy way of a hump always has been there, so just keep it.

My own goal is to one GM has out their eCrate systems and yes per GM that would be electric motor, controllers and certain required wiring that is included, but the rest is up to the person doing the install is to convert my 1994 GMC Suburban to electric, I will cut out the hump front to back and replace it with a flat floor.

Yes, sometimes you have to run a little extra wiring length, but worth it for a better layout in an auto.

[ccap41]

11 minutes ago, David said:

In cars yes, but for trucks and SUVs especially if body on frame, NO there is no need for it and yes one can still have proper ground clearance.

WOW, so you can read my mind before I know my mind. You really are making assumptions that would not hold true.

You're very open about not liking anything from Europe. I'm not sure how that's even an assumption. 

[oldshurst442]

Just now, David said:

You have never really had to deal with a hump.

Well...

I am a native Montrealer, of Greek decent, I have never come across a camel...other than at the zoo. 

So my question to you is:

One hump or two?

 

Take a bottle. Shake it up. Break the bubble. Break it up! 

 

 

[surreal1272]

52 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Thank you for the useful input. 

His intent is obvious in every thread. 

 

So was yours, which was apparently to troll him based on an incorrect assumption. Don’t get salty with me just because you got busted for it. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by surreal1272

[Robert Hall]

30 minutes ago, David said:

In cars yes, but for trucks and SUVs especially if body on frame, NO there is no need for it and yes one can still have proper ground clearance.

My Jeep uses the center tunnel for the driveshaft... without the hump, the driveshaft would be too low.   And with a BOF truck or SUV, it's there for the driveshaft also... in an ICE vehicle, really have to have FWD to get rid of the hump...even then, though, the hump is useful to route the exhaust.     On anything RWD-based, you have the have the driveshaft somewhere..can't see a way around it...(now lifted trucks and SUVs have the driveshaft exposed, but that is in a non-standard config).

Edited April 11, 2022 by Robert Hall

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

So what does a Cadillac CT5 or Camaro do?  What are they supposed to do with the drive axel in a rear drive car?

Like someone else here, you assumed instead of asking or perhaps just reading a little further down for his more detailed explanation. 

[G. David Felt]

20 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

You're very open about not liking anything from Europe. I'm not sure how that's even an assumption. 

I will always take an American auto company over European or Asian, but that does not mean I do not like anything from Europe. The bulk of European autos are too small for me which I have clearly stated. 

I have spent more than enough time in Mercedes and BMWs which seem to be popular as Taxis in Germany since I would up till the Pandemic go every year to work the consumer electronics show for my company in Germany. Yes, the E-Class and 5 series does have enough leg room to get from the airport to the hotel. Overall, I am not a car fan for ownership as pretty much everyone here knows, I am a Truck/SUV fan.

If I was living in Europe, I would probably own a G-Class or Audi SUV, BMW is just too ugly. But I live in America and as such prefer to support our own U.S. based companies that pay taxes into the system over European or Asian companies that while support a certain number of working-class Americans, takes the bulk of their profits out of the country.

[G. David Felt]

44 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

My Jeep uses the center tunnel for the driveshaft... without the hump, the driveshaft would be too low.   And with a BOF truck or SUV, it's there for the driveshaft also... in an ICE vehicle, really have to have FWD to get rid of the hump...even then, though, the hump is useful to route the exhaust.     On anything RWD-based, you have the have the driveshaft somewhere..can't see a way around it...(now lifted trucks and SUVs have the driveshaft exposed, but that is in a non-standard config).

I get the point your making Robert, but I also think that from exhaust to driveline, one can better engineer how it goes from the front to the back inside the frame area rather than under it or over it requiring a hump.

I do not remember what vehicle it was on, but probably a truck or SUV where the cross braces between the left and right side had holes that were specifically built for the drive line down the center and the exhaust without causing the need for a hump in the cabin.

This is what everyone seems to take for granted that it has to be this way.

Why could one not engineer the Engine and Transmission to support a drive shaft connection that would be parallel between a dual/single exhaust that is under a flat floorboard. 

Yes this is a custom frame, but I have seen this on older auto's where they do get rid of the bump by incorporating the exhaust and driveline into the frame.

This is all I am saying, that engineering can be done to better design the interior space of a auto.

[Robert Hall]

I think in the ancient world where BOF vehicle bodies sat on top of the frame (1930s?), there was very little cabin intrusion for the driveline.  But cars were tall and narrow then.  With lower, longer, wider some floor space had to be used for a driveline tunnel…

Edited April 11, 2022 by Robert Hall

[ccap41]

14 hours ago, David said:

Yes this is a custom frame, but I have seen this on older auto's where they do get rid of the bump by incorporating the exhaust and driveline into the frame.

There is a zero percent chance this frame is as rigid as it was prior to holes being put in it. 

I'm not saying there aren't ways around making more interior space (although I think the hump in SUVs is grossly overblown) but this is not one of them. 

Where's the GIF of the Tundra dancing over bumps? 

Edited April 12, 2022 by ccap41

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

There is a zero percent chance this frame is as rigid as it was prior to holes being put in it.

Just trolling extra hard this week huh? He clearly clarified the custom aspect of it and was stating that frames could be built like this from the start, which would not even begin to be the issue you are making it out to be since he is not referring to that exact frame above, only using it for visual reference. Read his post again and then see why your reply was not even necessary.