Chevrolet News:All-Electric Chevrolet Equinox @$30,000 Starting Price

[G. David Felt]

Per a recent story on thestreet.com titled "Who Can Afford a Tesla, Ford or Chevy Electric Vehicle?" they state that the median salary of $51,480 before taxes for 2021 from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. This would tend to imply that of the 2 million EVs that Ford and Chevrolet both say they will build and sell by 2026 is going to be hard as the current math for a 2022 Chevy Bolt with a starting price of $32,495 based on a 72 month loan with a $2,500 down payment would require an income of $72,000 a year and has you paying a monthly $452 payment.

A Ford Mach E with a base price of $44,995 requires an income of $101,000 a year with a monthly payment of $606 on a 72 month loan with a down payment of $4,500

Tesla is even more expensive when you look at the recent starting price of $47,690 which would require a yearly income of $111,000 with a 72 month loan, $4,500 down payment and a monthly payment of $652.

With the recent spikes in gas prices, more people have been interested in electric vehicles, yet the current prices are out of reach of most people even on used EVs. Then take into account the spike in raw meterials such as nickel and that ends up boosting EV prices again.

No entry level EV is priced under $30,000 that is equal to an ICE in range. The Chevrolet Bolt comes close, Nissan is selling Leaf's below $30,000 but with a battery range of just over 100 miles that many feel is not doable when compared to a equally priced ICE auto.

Tesla CEO Musk promised a sub $30,000 EV and has FAILED to deliver. He now says auto driving is the future, not individual driving.

Ford has promised an EV for all income levels, but at this time has not shown anything yet.

GM has stated that the Chevrolet Equinox Electric will be a game-changer. This EV will be based on their flexible Ultium Platform that supports Ultium battery packs of 50 kWh to 200 kWh with a motor combination that runs from 235 HP to 1,000 hp depending on EV.

GM has stated that this Electric Equinox will be available in FWD or AWD and will be available on the market starting Fall 2023 with a range per charge of 300 miles.

We have only seen this computer-generated interior that GM released at the start of the 2022 year.

The above video showing the exterior of the actual Chevrolet Equinox EV is exciting and proof that GM is moving forward to deliver on the promise of EVs for all.

With war in Europe, parts shortages globally, Price increases across the board on everything, this brings up the very real question of "Can GM CEO Mary Barra deliver still on the race to electrification for all?"

Many various OEMs and startups have announced EVs from entry level to luxury level. Can anyone deliver on that promise?

Many here at Cheers and Gears have also debated the lack of Style and inspiration for autos in the 21st century over autos of past yore.

What do YOU think of Chevrolet Equinox EV from a style standpoint?

Chevrolet - YouTube

Who Can Afford a Tesla, Ford or Chevy Electric Vehicle? - TheStreet

View full article

[balthazar]

I don't know where those 'scenario' numbers were sourced from, but if you're pulling down $111K/yr, you should be putting more than $4500 down on a new car.

[G. David Felt]

29 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I don't know where those 'scenario' numbers were sourced from, but if you're pulling down $111K/yr, you should be putting more than $4500 down on a new car.

Those numbers were from the Who Can afford story that I have the link at the bottom of the story. They talk about the basic take home pay after taxes and the fact that depending on where one lives, cost of living such as rent, etc. so they went with the default minimum required per the calculators used to figure cost on a 72-month loan.

Yes, I know some put more down, others less, they went for consistent sake I imagine with the default minimum required to buy said auto.

[balthazar]

[quote]...not many people earning median pay could afford any EV...[/quote]

Not good news for a segment hoping to grow significantly beyond 3% (U.S.) to a major percentage, never mind "100%".

I do think their calculations for salary "to afford" are too high, tho. It also seems to assume zero savings & draws all car funding from salary only. Again- if you're pulling down $111K, you had better have some liquidity / savings. Rule of thumb is 6 months of expenditures... 

Edited March 23, 2022 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

[quote]...not many people earning median pay could afford any EV...[/quote]

Not good news for a segment hoping to grow significantly beyond 3% (U.S.) to a major percentage, never mind "100%".

I do think their calculations for salary "to afford" are too high, tho. It also seems to assume zero savings & draws all car funding from salary only. Again- if you're pulling down $111K, you had better have some liquidity / savings. Rule of thumb is 6 months of expenditures... 

I agree with you, sadly, I think many live beyond their means and it would seem many live for instant gratification.

Sad when you see charts like this that show most Americans are not saving 6 months of income.

Average U.S. Savings Account Balance: A Demographic Breakdown - ValuePenguin

[smk4565]

Not only can most people not afford an EV, most can't afford a new car when the average new car is $47k and interest rates are about to be going up, making those 6 year car loans more expensive also.  If auto makers want to go EV, then you can't have a $50k small crossover that basically does nothing better than a $30k Rav4 other than it runs on electricity.

I would agree that if GM delivers on this it pretty much is a game changer because $30k is basically the cost of a gas Equinox, it would undercut the iD4 by over $10k.  Even if the Blazer is a 50 kWh battery to start and has 175 mile range, who cares, for most people that is enough and you can sell a 75 kWh battery with a 250 mile range as an option.  Some of these EV's are selling customers more battery than they need, which just makes the vehicle heavier and more expensive.

This thing isn't coming until Fall 2023 for the RS model, which means the cheap version won't be until 2024, a lot can happen in 2 years.  We saw Tesla promise a $35k Model 3 (2 years out after they sold high end trims) then it never happened.  So we'll see if Chevy can deliver here.  And really Chevy should start with the low end version first (like how every ICE car puts out the base model first, I don't see them putting out the Zr1 Corvette first then 2 years later the base model shows up) so they don't get reputation of the Equinox being too expensive.  If they start with a $60k RS model, people are going to think GM is nuts charging $60k for an Equinox and write this car off before it even gets going.

[regfootball]

again, will this be smaller inside than the current equinox? better not be.  It should made larger inside than the current equinox.  i'm going to guess gm will make it smaller inside.

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, regfootball said:

again, will this be smaller inside than the current equinox? better not be.  It should made larger inside than the current equinox.  i'm going to guess gm will make it smaller inside.

I would assume if it is an Equinox then it would be similar exterior size, which would be in line with an iD4.  If same size as the current Equinox then it would be similar size or maybe a little better inside, at least you'd get a flatter floor and can open up the center console since there is no transmission or drive axle.  

[balthazar]

"open up the center console" for what?

[G. David Felt]

52 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I would assume if it is an Equinox then it would be similar exterior size, which would be in line with an iD4.  If same size as the current Equinox then it would be similar size or maybe a little better inside, at least you'd get a flatter floor and can open up the center console since there is no transmission or drive axle.  

SMK, Can you clarify what you mean about "can open up the center console since there is no transmission or drive axle."

I think you forgot to finish your thought? ?

[smk4565]

Just now, David said:

SMK, Can you clarify what you mean about "can open up the center console since there is no transmission or drive axle."

I think you forgot to finish your thought? ?

They can remove the center console or have a hollowed out one with storage under it, like every other EV.  

[G. David Felt]

7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They can remove the center console or have a hollowed out one with storage under it, like every other EV.  

OK, so your saying removal of the existing style of center console (ICE related) in exchange for larger seats or a variety of alternative center consoles with expanded storage use, bench seat, etc.

Got it, thank you.

[Robert Hall]

12 hours ago, regfootball said:

again, will this be smaller inside than the current equinox? better not be.  It should made larger inside than the current equinox.  i'm going to guess gm will make it smaller inside.

Can't imagine it would be larger inside if the outside dimensions are comparable.  They have to take some space for the EV bits and batteries.   Unless it has lower ground clearance or a taller body relative to a real Equinox, that space has to come out of the interior...

[balthazar]

^ exactly the point I’ve made.

Batteries merely fit in between the structural rails below- they don’t allow for a shortening in height of said structural rails. Usable interior space should be the same.

[oldshurst442]

If a manufacturer is losing interior space with its skateboard EV platform, they are doin' it wrong...

 

 

 

Lucid Air

 

[oldshurst442]

If you guys noticed, the battery pack is BELOW  the middle of the tire's height.  The brake disks are ABOVE the battery pack.  The seats sit at the brake disks level.  And there is virtually nothing that enters the interior cabin.

 

 

 Now compare that to a RWD unibody

Only FWD unibody or BOF  comes close to a skateboard EV

 

 

 

 

 

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

If you guys noticed, the battery pack is BELOW  the middle of the tire's height.  The brake disks are ABOVE the battery pack.

If you also noticed, both the chassis & the tires are sitting on vertical 'pins', so I would certainly not use that opening pic as any sort of evidence of 'where things sit'.  We need a production-spec car sitting on the ground, or legitimate OEM specs.

Edited March 25, 2022 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

If you also noticed, both the chassis & the tires are sitting on vertical 'pins', so I would certainly not use that opening pic as any sort of evidence of 'where things sit'.  We need a production-spec car sitting on the ground, or legitimate OEM specs.

  You just wanna see what you wanna see...  Which is to falsely assume that a skateboard platform is not flat and the body sits directly on top...    In fact, the skateboard frame is a tray that houses the battery and the body shell goes on top to which the seats are directly on top of the battery pack.   For Lucid, the battery pack ends where the front seats end making it possible for the rear passengers feat to actually be housed in the battery tray itself...

 

The motors of both Lucid and Tesla is where the tires are front and back and nothing enters the passenger cabin. Like a FWD or rear engined car.  Plus...there is no transmission, so...

The battery cooling systems are in the battery tray within the battery pack...

 

 

The body shell literally just goes on top...

Tesla Model S

(Computer generated shell)

 

Lucid 

There is a small intrusion in the cabin up front for the Lucid, but nothing to scream and whine about lack of interior space...

In fact, the Lucid Air has more interior space than the Tesla Model S despite the Air's battery tray being less flat.

 

All pictures posted give a crystal clear idea of what is what. No need to be Doubting Thomas about this...

If a manufacturer makes the interior a tight space, its because they are doing it wrong.  Maybe designing the rake of the windshield too steep making the A, B and C pillars too low in trying to make a sedan more sports car like and designing interior dashboards and center consoles chunkier than need be... 

But that has NOTHING to do with the skateboard platform and where the battery resides...   

Like I said, maybe design an EV sedan less like a Porsche 911 if one wants interior space to be maximized...

 

 

But Porsche and Audi gets its wrong with their battery tray...

 

[balthazar]

12 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

You just wanna see what you wanna see...  Which is to falsely assume that a skateboard platform is not flat and the body sits directly on top... 

1. I didn't address the 'flatness', we were talking about the HEIGHT of the components relative to each other.  Photos of show car displays doesn't tell us where things are relative to each other.
2. You state it's "false" that a skateboard platform is not flat, then you posted pics of a BE skateboard-built car with a 'transmission hump' sticking up 4-5 inches into the pass compartment.

Remember, this sub-discussion was all about whether a BE Equinox would have more, less or the same interior room.

Edited March 25, 2022 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

1. I didn't address the 'flatness', we were talking about the HEIGHT of the components relative to each other.  Photos of show car displays doesn't tell us where things are relative to each other.
2. You state it's "false" that a skateboard platform is not flat, then you posted pics of a BE skateboard-built car with a 'transmission hump' sticking up 4-5 inches into the pass compartment.

Remember, this sub-discussion was all about whether a BE Equinox would have more, less or the same interior room.

1. Height relative to one another?  Common...

You know that slooping raked windshields is the real culprit here...

 

2.  Semantics...

And Tesla's battery tray and floor  is flat like Saskatchewan and Manitoba...

Lucid Air is the one with a small hump in front...

Volkswagen is the one that did it wrong.  

About the semantics part...you are free to look at reviews about the Lucid Air's interior room, headroom, legroom front and rear, seats front and back and you will quickly realize that height relative to one another is just Porsche  (Taycan)and Ford (Mach E) designed their sedan and CUV EVs  to simulate 911 and Mustang respectively...  (Audi just used the Taycan as a base) 

But if you take a look at the Model 3 despite it being a smaller EV, there is NO compromise to interior room. And if one looks at the CUV offerings of Model X and Model Y, with a very obvious tall but sleek design albeit dorky, one could easily see that there is NO compromise of room.

Im just questioning why the obvious and blatant false angle you have taken about this?

If Chevy possibly phoques up thee interior space of an EV Equinox, its definitely NOT because of where the 'relative height of  everything' is.  The floor is flat and while you ignored my first point, Ill repeat it again.

Not ONLY is the floor flat, but the battery pack on both the Lucid and the Telsas are BELOW the middle of the tire's height.  The brake disks are ABOVE the battery pack.  The seats sit at the brake disks level. Nothing intrudes the passenger compartment. In the Lucid Air, their is a hump, but because the Lucid Air hasnt sleeked its sedan to death, it hasn't affected any interior room for the negative.  The way it did the battery pack in the rear, the feet of the rear passengers get to rest IN the battery pack tray...

Ive posted enough REAL cutaway pics and diagrams that showcase that.  Tesla, Lucid and even Porsche has made it a point to show us this of what skateboard platforms do. These are FACTORY pics, showcasing the  ENGINEERING of what a flat floor is all about...

Even GM has done this

THAT would be the Hummer.  

Why so thick the battery tray and pack?

Because the Hummer's battery's are double of what everybody else has at 212.7 KW/H and are STACKED one on top of the other.  But its the SAME principle... 

Ill tell you what though..

If GM wanted to make the Hummer sleeker and raked the windshield 68 degrees like it did with the 4rth gen F Body and made the interior chunky like the HUMMER H1, would you blame the lack of interior space on the battery packs and the height relative to one another too?

Very disingenuous  of you if you did...

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by oldshurst442

[regfootball]

lack of girth is the current Equinox' problem, about 2" extra of hip and shoulder room would go a long way towards feeling more spacious.

Gotta say that dash design looks interesting and promising, wish they would redesign the current Blazer dashboard to that.

[smk4565]

Interior room isn’t going to be what makes or breaks the EV Equinox.  What will break it is if it has an awful GM style interior that is all dark gray with cheap plastic everywhere or if they promise one price and come out with a much higher price.  What will make it is if they deliver on their $30k price and have a visually appealing vehicle inside and out.   All these other small crossover SUVs are like $50k, if GM can deliver they can kick all their asses on the sales chart.  It’s simple math, the number of people that can afford a $500 a month car payment is a hell of a lot higher than the number that can afford $900 a month.

[balthazar]

16 hours ago, balthazar said:

Usable interior space should be the same.

 

[oldshurst442]

5 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Now compare that to a RWD unibody

Only FWD unibody or BOF  comes close to a skateboard EV

 

 

[oldshurst442]

17 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Can't imagine it would be larger inside if the outside dimensions are comparable.  They have to take some space for the EV bits and batteries.   Unless it has lower ground clearance or a taller body relative to a real Equinox, that space has to come out of the interior...

 

16 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ exactly the point I’ve made.

Batteries merely fit in between the structural rails below- they don’t allow for a shortening in height of said structural rails. Usable interior space should be the same.

 

5 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

If a manufacturer is losing interior space with its skateboard EV platform, they are doin' it wrong...

 

[balthazar]

Will be interesting to read the dimensions of the BE Equinox vs. the IC variant.

[G. David Felt]

4 hours ago, balthazar said:

Will be interesting to read the dimensions of the BE Equinox vs. the IC variant.

Yes, this will be key here for Chevrolet.

Yet with that stated, the Mach-E has tons of interior space over a ice Mustang.

I can also say without a doubt that Tesla really screwed the Donkey on their lack of interior space for an EV on top of a stoopid extreme rack of the windshield and roof line that eats up interior space. Sadly large people even musk in the front seat cannot have anyone sit in the rear unlike a Mach-E.

Interior space is one reason I have not bought a Rivian, Hummer or Chevrolet Silverado E. I need to physically test myself in one and the rear seat to see if the family can fit.

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, David said:

Yes, this will be key here for Chevrolet.

Yet with that stated, the Mach-E has tons of interior space over a ice Mustang.

 .

A bit different, though as the ICE Mustang is a 2dr coupe/convertible w/ a tiny interior.  Apples and oranges.  The EV Equinox is the same body style as the ICE Equinox and presumably similar exterior dimensions, so one would think they would have similar interior dimensions. 

1 hour ago, David said:

 

I can also say without a doubt that Tesla really screwed the Donkey on their lack of interior space for an EV on top of a stoopid extreme rack of the windshield and roof line that eats up interior space. 

Though interestingly, Tesla continues to sell quite a few vehicles...not sure interior space is that much of an issue for most buyers.  

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, David said:

the Mach-E has tons of interior space over a ice Mustang.

?

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, David said:

Yet with that stated, the Mach-E has tons of interior space over a ice Mustang.

Ummm, maybe you didn't see the "apples to apples" error there lol. I would sure as hell hope that an SUV Mach-E has more space than a two door pony car Mustang that happens to share the same first name. They literally have noticing else in common unlike the new Equinox.

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

A bit different, though as the ICE Mustang is a 2dr coupe/convertible w/ a tiny interior.  Apples and oranges.  The EV Equinox is the same body style as the ICE Equinox and presumably similar exterior dimensions, so one would think they would have similar interior dimensions. 

Though interestingly, Tesla continues to sell quite a few vehicles...not sure interior space is that much of an issue for most buyers.  

Yes, I know I am the extreme exception to this as I am NOT the Standard size for America.   

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

?

Glad I could make you laugh, Figure it was my time to pull the Apple to Watermelon comparison!  

36 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Ummm, maybe you didn't see the "apples to apples" error there lol. I would sure as hell hope that an SUV Mach-E has more space than a two door pony car Mustang that happens to share the same first name. They literally have noticing else in common unlike the new Equinox.

So true my friend, but then Noticing the lack of sarcasm, I did my best to play the role of the mismatched comparison!  

I do like the "noticing else in common" comment!  

JK  

[surreal1272]

29 minutes ago, David said:

I do like the "noticing else in common" comment!

Yeah, that would the result of fast yet half asleep typing and autocorrect getting drunk together lol.

[Drew Dowdell]

On 3/23/2022 at 12:22 PM, balthazar said:

I don't know where those 'scenario' numbers were sourced from, but if you're pulling down $111K/yr, you should be putting more than $4500 down on a new car.

Depends on location. If you live in suburban Iowa, sure. One of the nicer parts of Philly, not so much.

[balthazar]

Filter Square in Philly has an average income of $102K, and the average home costs $940K. 
Common minimum % down is 5%, or $47,000.  

I don't think folk going into that scenario are too cash-strapped / living paycheck-to-paycheck to be unable to scrape together -say- $8K for a vehicle DP.

[Robert Hall]

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Filter Square in Philly has an average income of $102K, and the average home costs $940K. 
Common minimum % down is 5%, or $47,000.   

Doesn't sound realistic that someone making $102k would be buying a $940k home.   

[balthazar]

Depends where you are financially. If you’re just starting off, land a job at $100K, likely you don’t have much/anything in savings, and your down payment would be minimal. now your in a position where you’re dependent on your only monthly income to cover the mortgage.

But if you’ve been working 20 years, you ‘should’ have savings/investments built up. You put more down, lessen the monthly, have a ‘cushion’ to cover some payments outside your salary. It’s a more ‘breathable’ scenario.

[regfootball]

On 3/25/2022 at 8:45 AM, David said:

Yes, I know I am the extreme exception to this as I am NOT the Standard size for America.   

Glad I could make you laugh, Figure it was my time to pull the Apple to Watermelon comparison!  

So true my friend, but then Noticing the lack of sarcasm, I did my best to play the role of the mismatched comparison!  

I do like the "noticing else in common" comment!  

JK  

The overall point, and that to which I can connect some dots to your comment is, for EV's to make bigger dents in the market (at least from GM's perspective) is that for mass adoption (which is apparently supposed to be the point with EV's for some) is that the vehicles need to become replacements in SIZE and function for other volume and value segments of the population.  GM can't limit their attention to small cars like the Volt, Equinox, Bolt.  The Silverado EV is a good step to provide a useful larger vehicle for adoption to the masses.  Why GM would expect to have volume impact in the market with a smaller than heck Volt and Bolt is beyond me but really exposes that they didn't want to get mass adoption with those products.  They wanted to limit 'numbers sold' with the new technology in case there were flaws (fires).  The Volt system should have been used in a Malibu or Impala sized car, and also an SUV at the time.  I think there would have been a helluva lot more interest in the Bolt if it weren't Lilliput in size.

All this talk and bullshit from car companies and pushing these EV concepts and yet how many of these are queued up for release to battle volume segments for people like David and other average customers that need some size and space in their vehicles?  You won't get mass adoption until you get functional replacements, and at a similar cost to current market top sellers.

That said, for the compact class, which does sell in volume, this will be a good entry I think.  Now, where is the Traverse EV?

We're 25 years post EV1 and not really much farther along in that period of time...... 

Edited March 27, 2022 by regfootball

[G. David Felt]

23 hours ago, regfootball said:

The overall point, and that to which I can connect some dots to your comment is, for EV's to make bigger dents in the market (at least from GM's perspective) is that for mass adoption (which is apparently supposed to be the point with EV's for some) is that the vehicles need to become replacements in SIZE and function for other volume and value segments of the population.  GM can't limit their attention to small cars like the Volt, Equinox, Bolt.  The Silverado EV is a good step to provide a useful larger vehicle for adoption to the masses.  Why GM would expect to have volume impact in the market with a smaller than heck Volt and Bolt is beyond me but really exposes that they didn't want to get mass adoption with those products.  They wanted to limit 'numbers sold' with the new technology in case there were flaws (fires).  The Volt system should have been used in a Malibu or Impala sized car, and also an SUV at the time.  I think there would have been a helluva lot more interest in the Bolt if it weren't Lilliput in size.

All this talk and bullshit from car companies and pushing these EV concepts and yet how many of these are queued up for release to battle volume segments for people like David and other average customers that need some size and space in their vehicles?  You won't get mass adoption until you get functional replacements, and at a similar cost to current market top sellers.

That said, for the compact class, which does sell in volume, this will be a good entry I think.  Now, where is the Traverse EV?

We're 25 years post EV1 and not really much farther along in that period of time...... 

We'll stated, Both Ford and GM have stated to embrace all segments, and with so many EVs supposedly coming to market in 2025, one would have to assume the mid-size SUV segment will have plenty of options.

[surreal1272]

It should be noted that for all this talk about EVs and pricing and there not being one cheaper than $30K (save for the Leaf that no one wants), the lowest price ICE car/SUV from GM will be $21,400 (base model price, at that) after this year since the Spark and Trax are going bye bye. Ford's cheapest will be $25,500 for a gas only car or truck after the EcoSport goes bye bye this year. Only the hybrid model Maverick will be the cheapest at $19,995.

[oldshurst442]

I watched the youtube vid that @balthazar  posted over at the Random Thoughts thread.

 

When the dude was showing us the car in detail, the engine bay, the 4 cylinder,  the running boards (made of wood), the very spartan but very workable and the lack of unnecessary and useless gadgets, made me realize one thing...

Especially reading what @surreal1272 suggested that nobody actually wants a Nissan Leaf.  I was thinking about the the costs and price tags of today's cars.  I was thinking about Apple Car Play and butt massagers and heated and cooled seats AND steering wheels and electric windows...  On ENTRY level vehicles whose starting price all start where luxury cars started 20 years ago. Where all those things only luxury cars offered... 

I was looking at the engine of that Ford Model A and how crude but easy it was to wrench on. How anybody could wrench on it. How everything was actually accessible so ANYBODY could wrench on them. 

That engine bay and the spartan interior.   That made me realize ONE thing:

NOBODY in North America WANTS an easy to fix, no frills, low tech and spartan vehicle.  We all want to be spoiled. We all want the frills. We dont want to pay for any of it. We want to bitch and moan and whine WHY cars are sooooo expensive, but we want to be splashed with 'luxury' with useless shyte so we could 'feel' comfortable while we drive.  Im not saying we should have wood floorboards, no insulation, no heat or air con...   But we dont really need Apple Car Play and butt massagers while the seat ALSO  heats or cools our a$$ as well...

Gone are the days of the Model T and Model A that TRULY WERE for the every day man and woman.  There is no humbleness in our daily lives anymore...  

In today's world...  (see my rant about how North Americans have lived spoiled lives since WW2 in the Vaccine thread to make the connection here as well)   

[surreal1272]

48 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Especially reading what @surreal1272 suggested that nobody actually wants a Nissan Leaf.

Let me clarify something here. My remark about the Leaf was in regards to sub-$30K EVs and the Leaf in question is the one with only 150 miles of range, which is unacceptable at any price range. No one wants that except for certain folks in California lol. The 226 mile model starts north of $30K. 
 

The more you know. 

[oldshurst442]

Let me clarify my rant.

In the beginning of the automotive era, the automobile was a luxury item. It was available and catered only to the rich. In Europe and in North America.  Along comes Henry Ford and he had the fantastic idea to democratize the automobile.  These cars that he built and sold were far from being plush and were far from pampering their owners. They were indeed work vehicles. Dodge, Chevrolet and others joined Ford in this way. 

Along the way, as North America was having their standards of living raised to unseen levels before in human history, even the poor got the idea to be pampered. (And why not?)

But somewhere there is a lost in translation.  As we are entering a new era of human transportation as the automobile is changing what powers it to move forward, with a technology that is simply too expensive to democratize, nobody, INCLUDING the (most) greenies are not willing to compromise in their creature comforts to be able to allow this transformation to happen as affordable as possible.

We want our cake and eat it too.  And to that I say...why not???!!!  

But to put things in perspective,  we shouldnt be bitchin' on why cars have become so expensive (ICE or BE) and why EVs are not as affordable as they should be.  

Ironically, the airplane travel industry is a reversing trend as compared to the automobile transportation.

Airplane travel easily up until the 1970s was mostly for the rich.  (Not including the warplanes. Those were for killing ourselves)

Along comes the 747 and that plane single handedly democratized airplane travel AND globe trotting vacationing.  The Concorde that was introduced at the same time continued with the theme of only the rich get to have fun.

And since the late '60s/early '70s, airplane travel has been trying to get cheaper and cheaper for EVERYBODY to fly eliminating ALL that PAMPERS the traveler. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

13 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

In the beginning of the automotive era, the automobile was a luxury item. It was available and catered only to the rich. In Europe and in North America.  Along comes Henry Ford and he had the fantastic idea to democratize the automobile.  These cars that he built and sold were far from being plush and were far from pampering their owners. They were indeed work vehicles. Dodge, Chevrolet and others joined Ford in this way.

To be more accurate, the early autos were disproportionately for the wealthy, but make no mistake - there were numerous very spartan and relatively 'cheap' autos also.  Ford wasn't alone and wasn't the first.  

[oldshurst442]

Ill continue my rant which now I will further connect the Vaccine thread. 

About misinformation and hidden agenda a$$holes.

I get that a majority of people living in North America do NOT own their own home or a home where a home charger could be installed...

With THAT aside, hidden agenda a$$holes have fueled this fear of EVs needing to have 400-500-600-700-800-1000 miles of range to ease range anxiety when in reality, a 60 KW/H battery with a range of 150/180/200/220 miles of range is MORE than plenty for everyday, daily driving regardless if its -40 degrees WITH a snowstorm collecting 3 feet of snow...

This fear of EVs has also made EVs unnecessarily more expensive upselling battery juice and up-tech-ing unneeded battery power  for unnecessary range contributing to the price tag of everyday, Average Joe EVs...

Instead of using the unnecessary cost to R&D unnecessary battery power for mostly unnecessary range to lower the cost of daily driven EVs for Average Joes to put to market cheaper EVs and for the money saved to be used to CREATE a more vast charging infrastructure so even folk without a home that has access to home charging, the OEMS are focusing on OVERengineering and OVER selling EVs...

But, irony is that these hidden agenda a$$holes are pushing EV producers to ACCELERATE BEs to be SUPERIOR to their ICE counterparts because of their fear mongering... 

Faster. 

More pampering tech.

More range. The Lucid Air has a range of 500 miles...   Its a limousine of a car and its faster than 90% of exotic super sports cars.  The Tesla Model S, an EV that is a decade old will also have, soon, a range nearing 500 miles, but it already beats 100% of ALL superduper hyper sports cars.  

Forgetting that home chargers exist, charging ports will soon charge cars with half the speed of even fueling up with gasoline...

Also, recharging as you drive, recharging while the sun hits your car are also tech that exists today...  Imagine if THAT tech ever becomes mainstream???!!!

Comes at a cost?

Ive already discovered that people WANT tech laden automobiles regardless what that costs...  We bitch about the cost and we bitch about the complexity, but we are happy as pigs in shyte that it exists and we want to own and experience over engineered, gluttonous tech wizadry. Especially in our cars. 

 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

On 3/26/2022 at 10:11 AM, balthazar said:

Filter Square in Philly has an average income of $102K, and the average home costs $940K. 
Common minimum % down is 5%, or $47,000.  

I don't think folk going into that scenario are too cash-strapped / living paycheck-to-paycheck to be unable to scrape together -say- $8K for a vehicle DP.

That doesn't account for people who rent. 

On 3/27/2022 at 12:23 PM, regfootball said:

The overall point, and that to which I can connect some dots to your comment is, for EV's to make bigger dents in the market (at least from GM's perspective) is that for mass adoption (which is apparently supposed to be the point with EV's for some) is that the vehicles need to become replacements in SIZE and function for other volume and value segments of the population.  GM can't limit their attention to small cars like the Volt, Equinox, Bolt.  The Silverado EV is a good step to provide a useful larger vehicle for adoption to the masses.  Why GM would expect to have volume impact in the market with a smaller than heck Volt and Bolt is beyond me but really exposes that they didn't want to get mass adoption with those products.  They wanted to limit 'numbers sold' with the new technology in case there were flaws (fires).  The Volt system should have been used in a Malibu or Impala sized car, and also an SUV at the time.  I think there would have been a helluva lot more interest in the Bolt if it weren't Lilliput in size.

All this talk and bullshit from car companies and pushing these EV concepts and yet how many of these are queued up for release to battle volume segments for people like David and other average customers that need some size and space in their vehicles?  You won't get mass adoption until you get functional replacements, and at a similar cost to current market top sellers.

That said, for the compact class, which does sell in volume, this will be a good entry I think.  Now, where is the Traverse EV?

We're 25 years post EV1 and not really much farther along in that period of time...... 

The Blazer EV is next. They're moving right up the lineup. We already know the Escalade EV is coming which means that a Suburban/Tahoe EV is also likely... so while Traverse may be the last to go, GM is definitely working on it. 

[Drew Dowdell]

10 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Ill continue my rant which now I will further connect the Vaccine thread. 

About misinformation and hidden agenda a$$holes.

I get that a majority of people living in North America do NOT own their own home or a home where a home charger could be installed...

With THAT aside, hidden agenda a$$holes have fueled this fear of EVs needing to have 400-500-600-700-800-1000 miles of range to ease range anxiety when in reality, a 60 KW/H battery with a range of 150/180/200/220 miles of range is MORE than plenty for everyday, daily driving regardless if its -40 degrees WITH a snowstorm collecting 3 feet of snow...

This fear of EVs has also made EVs unnecessarily more expensive upselling battery juice and up-tech-ing unneeded battery power  for unnecessary range contributing to the price tag of everyday, Average Joe EVs...

There is such a rut stuck mindset about "filling up" with EVs... it is going to take a while for people to shake it.  

Two main issues:

 

1. "It takes forever to fill up! I can fill my gas car in 5 minutes!" - So? Then don't "fill up" your EV. You don't need to, and indeed should not be, charging your battery to 100% every time. You'll shorten the life of your battery doing that. Put enough charge in to get to your next charge point plus 25 miles padding, then unplug and be on your way.  The only time you ever need to fill up multiple times a day is when you are doing a 600 mile trip... and be honest with yourself on how often that happens.

2. "It takes forever to fill up! Why would I just sit in my car for hours!"  - Then don't.  I charged twice when I was in Colorado with the Kia Niro EV. I took a friend to lunch and found a parking garage with a charger (easy to do both with the built-in Kia app and the ChargePoint app that works through Apple CarPlay).  I didn't sit around waiting for it to charge... I plugged it in and spend time having lunch with a friend outside on a beautiful Denver day.  The charger wasn't the destination, the lunch was... but while I was eating, so was the car.  I also charged on a visit to Boulder. I parked at a Wholefoods and plugged in to the rapid charger. Then I walked up Pearl Street (beautiful and fun shopping district in Boulder) and had breakfast at one of my most favorite places in the world.  After breakfast I strolled through the shops, picked up a couple of gifts for Albert for Christmas, and slowly made my way back to the car. Again, the destination wasn't the charger, it was the restaurant and Pearl Street.  But while I was there, the Niro added 115 miles of range.  Then I went and drove it up and over the front range and toured the mountains a bit.  Coming back down I made a bunch of stops, but generally kept it in high regen mode all the way back down the mountains.  I ended the couple hours of driving with just 15 miles less range than I started with.  When is the last time you recharged your gas tank by coasting down hill?

You know what I didn't do?  I didn't hunt around for a non-price gouging gas station within 10 miles of the airport right before returning the car to the rental company. I drove 300ish miles on that trip and spent $15 in charging fees. Can't do that in nearly any car right now. 

[balthazar]

37 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That doesn't account for people who rent

I’ve worked in 2 homes that were being rented at $7500/mnth and $8500/mnth. Just saying.

[ccap41]

On 3/24/2022 at 10:06 PM, regfootball said:

lack of girth is the current Equinox' problem, about 2" extra of hip and shoulder room would go a long way towards feeling more spacious.

Gotta say that dash design looks interesting and promising, wish they would redesign the current Blazer dashboard to that.

That's why they'll sell you a Blazer... 

[G. David Felt]

Seems that either the Web Master slipped or Chevrolet is intentionally building excitement for the Reveal of additional EVs later this year as this week we saw the Reveal and details on the Blazer EV and now with the latest update to the www.cheverolet.com web site you have an Equinox EV option too.

Updated video at the site for this starting around $30,000 EV.

Future & Upcoming Chevy EVs | Chevrolet

Seems to have the same interior/exterior and updated video as when I posted the original story.