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Rivian MSRP's see stratospheric jump

balthazar

By balthazar
in Industry News

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ccap41 Veteran

ccap41

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

*rushes over to facebook*

That's where I found it, hahaha. This topic was a thread in a group I'm in. 

I'd also like to point out that I really don't have much of an issue with them raising the prices, even though the hikes were A LOT. The biggest issue was just not honoring the reservations, the ones giving them cash for operations prior to production. 

4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The Facebook group is celebrating but there is still a lot of bitterness about it.

Even if every single person reinstates their original reservation, the trust of the company is broken and it will not be forgotten. 

Yep, this is going to hurt regardless of "fixing" the mistake. 

  • Agree 2
surreal1272 Veteran

surreal1272

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The Facebook group is celebrating but there is still a lot of bitterness about it.

Even if every single person reinstates their original reservation, the trust of the company is broken and it will not be forgotten. 

Very true and they need to reassure their customers that they will be more forthcoming about future price increases without burning preorder buyers and such. 

  • Agree 1
G. David Felt Grand Master

G. David Felt

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Funny enough, I also saw this. 

97E05901-1579-4154-ABDF-EAC4D6D813CF.jpeg

Ya know this charity probably is owned by the dealership owner and they have total control of those purse strings. This sounds like a scam and GM needs to crush these dealers that do this.

  • Like 2
Robert Hall Veteran

Robert Hall

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, David said:

Ya know this charity probably is owned by the dealership owner and they have total control of those purse strings. This sounds like a scam and GM needs to crush these dealers that do this.

'Classic Charity Fund'...fake bullshit, probably all goes into the pocket of the shitbag dealership owner.  

9 minutes ago, David said:

Ya know this charity probably is owned by the dealership owner and they have total control of those purse strings. This sounds like a scam and GM needs to crush these dealers that do this.

GM needs to stop selling any inventory to such dealers...starve them of product, force them out of business....

  • Agree 2
ccap41 Veteran

ccap41

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, David said:

Ya know this charity probably is owned by the dealership owner and they have total control of those purse strings. This sounds like a scam and GM needs to crush these dealers that do this.

Oh yeah, definitely sketchy. 

surreal1272 Veteran

surreal1272

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, balthazar said:

'Trust rebuilding & reassurance' isn't at all necessary, and any 'bitterness' is totally unwarranted.

It was all "much to do about nothing". ?

Maybe share that level criticism with those dealerships you are so ready to defend at a moments notice. That’s all I’m saying and again, much a damn do about nothing, for now. 

  • Agree 2
balthazar

balthazar

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Dealerships who charge even a hundred extra dollars on an already-ordered product are shitty. I wouldn’t pay it.

There.

Again tho, from the CONSUMER’s standpoint, if they want that Brand X, they can shop around at other stores or even in other states.

RIVIAN BUYERS HAVE NO OTHER STORES!!

That’s the huge difference you keep ignoring.

  • Haha 3
surreal1272 Veteran

surreal1272

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Dealerships who charge even a hundred extra dollars on an already-ordered product are $h!ty. I wouldn’t pay it.

There.

Again tho, from the CONSUMER’s standpoint, if they want that Brand X, they can shop around at other stores or even in other states.

RIVIAN BUYERS HAVE NO OTHER STORES!!

That’s the huge difference you keep ignoring.

I'm not ignoring anything but you seem to be, at this point, as they corrected the only wrong out of this (pricing for reserved orders prior to March 1st). And they don't have any other stores but that is 100% irrelevant because:

 

A)-What happened at Rivian is FAR less common than the thousands of cases of deanships screw overs that occur on a monthly basis and have been for decades. 

 

B)-They do have other choices even if they don't have other stores which is dumb argument anyway because, again, you are not buying from them anyway and clearly it's a model for a lot of folks these days who are tired of what I mentioned in A)

 

If you don't how A.) has led to this, then I don't know what else to tell you. 

10 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Dealerships who charge even a hundred extra dollars on an already-ordered product are $h!ty. I wouldn’t pay it.

There.

Yet not one thread, on your behalf, detailing the far encompassing problems with them, problems that are far worse and have been going on for FAR LONGER than this one incident by Rivian, hence my original "clickbait' remark about this thread. Which problem do you think affects more buyers? Rivian raising their prices this week or dealerships doing worse than for more than a half century now?

9 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

AND they also don't have to deal with scumbag salespeople. 

But his salesperson was honest so it doesn't matter to him that much apparently. Now companies like Rivian, of which he has no intention of even being a customer, are the real problem because of this fantasy that direct models are the devil while the current status quo of dealership screwing is heaven on earth.

G. David Felt Grand Master

G. David Felt

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Dealerships who charge even a hundred extra dollars on an already-ordered product are shitty. I wouldn’t pay it.

There.

Again tho, from the CONSUMER’s standpoint, if they want that Brand X, they can shop around at other stores or even in other states.

RIVIAN BUYERS HAVE NO OTHER STORES!!

That’s the huge difference you keep ignoring.

Sure Rivian Buyers have choices, they can go to the Vaporware Tesla Cyber Truck, GMC Hummer and Silverado and the coming GMC truck or order at Ford for an F150 Lighting. Plenty of options.

  • Haha 1
balthazar

balthazar

Posted
  • Author
Posted
11 minutes ago, David said:

Sure Rivian Buyers have choices, they can go to the Vaporware Tesla Cyber Truck, GMC Hummer and Silverado and the coming GMC truck or order at Ford for an F150 Lighting. Plenty of options.

Uhhh..... That would automatically make then NOT a Rivian buyer, but a GMC / Chevy / Ford buyer. ?

45 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

What happened at Rivian is FAR less common than the thousands of cases of deanships screw overs that occur on a monthly basis and have been for decades. 

So you're saying that far more examples of sh!tty deals/practices have occurred at 100s of thousands of dealers over 20-50 years, than have occurred at ONE Rivian store that's been selling vehicles for 3 months.

Bazinga - got me there!!  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Haha 1
balthazar

balthazar

Posted
  • Author
Posted
55 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

AND they also don't have to deal with scumbag salespeople. 

Is RJ from Rivian also a 'scumbag salesperson'? How about 'jack the prices monthly' Musk?

surreal1272 Veteran

surreal1272

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, balthazar said:

Is RJ from Rivian also a 'scumbag salesperson'? How about 'jack the prices monthly' Musk?

You do realize, that while you're trying to have that "gotcha" moment with ccap, that the answer to both is the same right?

8 minutes ago, balthazar said:

ONE Rivian store that's been selling vehicles for 3 months

Way to misconstrue but look at the line I quoted from you. In that same 3 months and ONE incident, dealerships across the country have been getting warned by manufacturers about price screwing their customers and have been doing far worse than that during the SAME 3 MONTHS. 

 

That "one" remark also show that you are using a very small sample pool there while I can pull up endless articles and tales of dealerships being scumbags.

ccap41 Veteran

ccap41

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Is RJ from Rivian also a 'scumbag salesperson'? How about 'jack the prices monthly' Musk?

No, they're not spamming email, pressuring me to purchase, pressuring to buy add-ons, and they're probably not completely ignorant about the products they're selling. If they were actually selling their products, they could 100% answer questions about their vehicles without some weird runaround. 

26 minutes ago, David said:

Sure Rivian Buyers have choices, they can go to the Vaporware Tesla Cyber Truck, GMC Hummer and Silverado and the coming GMC truck or order at Ford for an F150 Lighting. Plenty of options.

Exactly what I said, but those aren't competitors to Balth, for some reason.  

balthazar

balthazar

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Yet not one thread, on your behalf, detailing the far encompassing problems with them, problems that are far worse and have been going on for FAR LONGER than this one incident by Rivian,

I've never denied there are raw deals out there.  Quote me if you think I did.

What I have stated from the beginning is consumer choice; there are always other businesses (selling the same product) you can patronize, businesses that offer the consumer choice with their deal - different stated prices, plus the opportunity to bargain on that stated price.  That's 'choice', and that only benefits the consumer.  I thought we all loved the concept of competition & choice...

One store mandated prices with no discounting is zero (or only 'one') choice, not potentially unlimited choice.

You as a consumer can pay severe markups if you decide to (some do), or a much more moderate markup, or sticker, or even below sticker.  That's a MUCH wider pool of potential buyers.  It's up to the individual.  Just... cannot do that at Rivian or Tesla.

If you as a consumer don't care what you spend; then MSRPs, dealer markups, factory price jacks are ALL irrelevant to you.  But most people don't shop that way.
 

13 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Exactly what I said, but those aren't competitors to Balth, for some reason.  

'I' reserved a Rivian, 'I' want a Rivian, 'I' love everything about the truck, what a fresh, unique, fun product! 

What are my purchase price options for getting a Rivian?  One.

- - - - -
I never said those other trucks weren't segment competitors. 
I am talking about the consumer who wants a RIVIAN.

A truck 'you' were smitten with and planned on buying over a year ago... except last night the price was jacked $11,475, and you hadn't budgeted for a 17% (or more if getting options) price increase.  Anyone believe that's NOT going to throw a LOT of future buyers out of the pool?  Money doesn't matter?  $68K vs. $80K = inconsequential?

Maybe a different Rivian dealer will still honor that $67K stic— whoops; there aren't any other Rivian dealers. 

Edited by balthazar
ccap41 Veteran

ccap41

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I thought we all loved the concept of competition & choice...

We do and it all went south with dealerships being scummy as fck. 

If they weren't scumbags, there never would have been complaints. 

balthazar

balthazar

Posted
  • Author
Posted

SOME dealerships. There are 18,000 new vehicle dealers in the U.S..

There have also been numerous complaints about the 1 Tesla ‘dealer’ and the 1 Rivian ‘dealer’, to be fair.

ccap41 Veteran

ccap41

Posted
Posted

I'd wager a very high percentage of dealerships have at least one complete scumbag salesperson. 

What complaints, prior to this situation, have there been about the Rivian 'dealer' ?

  • Agree 1
Robert Hall Veteran

Robert Hall

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Uhhh..... That would automatically make then NOT a Rivian buyer, but a GMC / Chevy / Ford buyer. ?

So you're saying that far more examples of sh!tty deals/practices have occurred at 100s of thousands of dealers over 20-50 years, than have occurred at ONE Rivian store that's been selling vehicles for 3 months.
 

You would have be awfully naive or simple-minded to assume most dealers have fair practices...yeah, maybe you got a good deal on one vehicle at one dealer that walks on water and everything is rainbows and unicorns in your view of them.  So effing what?   It's well known that dealers are still the scum of the earth and out to screw over buyers whenever possible.   I don't see why you are taking the side of dealers unless you have a dog in the fight...

Edited by Robert Hall
balthazar

balthazar

Posted
  • Author
Posted

They’ve been detailed here; I don’t see disqualifying them (investor issue, reservation issue, MSRP jack). The pool of buyer experiences is microscopic at this point…

Just now, Robert Hall said:

You would have be awfully naive or simple-minded to assume most dealers have fair practices...yeah, maybe you got a good deal on vehicle at one dealer that walks on water and everything is rainbows and unicorns in your view of them.  So effing what?   It's well known that dealers are still the scum of the earth and out to screw over buyers whenever possible. 

You have any empirical evidence to generalize like you’re doing (“scum of the Earth” / kill all salespersons because of their industry). 

  • Haha 1
G. David Felt Grand Master

G. David Felt

Posted
Posted

Seems Rivian has numerous showrooms which are listed on their Career page.

Careers - Rivian

Robert Hall Veteran

Robert Hall

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, balthazar said:

They’ve been detailed here; I don’t see disqualifying them (investor issue, reservation issue, MSRP jack). The pool of buyer experiences is microscopic at this point…

You have any empirical evidence to generalize like you’re doing (“scum of the Earth” / kill all salespersons because of their industry). 

There is plenty of examples out there about how bad car dealers are...no point in quoting.  Sounds like your problem is you are looking at dealers with nostalgia for the 1950s... they aren't there to provide any benefit to buyers.   I'm definitely pro-consumer, definitely not going to side with businesses. 

Edited by Robert Hall
  • Haha 1
  • Agree 2
balthazar

balthazar

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I wasn't around in the '50s- I don't have much knowledge of how dealers worked then, so that projection isn't it.

'Plenty of examples' sounds like you advocate judging an individual ('salesman') solely on his job title, rather than the actuality of how they conduct themselves.  I find -barring direct evidence to the contrary- giving the individual the benefit of the doubt takes me much farther than assuming everyone is out to F me.

To repeat; there are just about 18,000 new car dealers in the U.S. in '22- that a HUGE pool to make an overall strongly negative assumption about. 

Now... if a specific dealer has BBB complaints, or online horror stories from actual customers, that's enough evidence for most people (& me) to avoid them.  By the same token; if a specific dealer has a great reputation and strong reviews, I would expect to have a good experience there.  

But I'm getting from you that it's basically impossible to EVER get a square deal from a car salesman, because; 'car salesman'.

 

There are 5.2 million people in the U.S. named 'Robert'. (My father is one).

Can I take the experiences / heard accounts of -say- 10,000 of them, and make a fair assumption about the other 5.1+ million, unilaterally?  Does anything in life actually work like that??

  • Haha 2
Robert Hall Veteran

Robert Hall

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I wasn't around in the '50s- I don't have much knowledge of how dealers worked then, so that projection isn't it.

 

You are always posting old black and white photos of 50s cars and old dealerships, it certainly sounds like you have nostalgia for a world you never lived in..

As far as sales people, there are some good ones, I’ve worked with a few. But I’m general, sales is a profession full of sleazy, unethical people in my opinion.  I don’t trust them.  They are of little value when compared to people that actually produce something of value, like engineers, designers, etc..

  • Confused 1
balthazar

balthazar

Posted
  • Author
Posted

It would be cool to visit other times, sure. And I enjoy seeing other approaches to everyday life- that recent pic of the railroad bridge I posted was from the 1880s.

I don't trust software folk; they exist to perpetuate planned obsolescence / hold consumers prisoner in endless consumerism loops with barely-demonstrable benefit.  Pure evil. ?

  • Haha 3
Robert Hall Veteran

Robert Hall

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, balthazar said:

It would be cool to visit other times, sure. And I enjoy seeing other approaches to everyday life- that recent pic of the railroad bridge I posted was from the 1880s.

I don't trust software folk; they exist to perpetuate planned obsolescence / hold consumers prisoner in endless consumerism loops with barely-demonstrable benefit.  Pure evil. ?

software engineers and IT folks keep the world working..without us, there would be only chaos...banks wouldn't work, airline reservation systems wouldn't work, cell phones wouldn't work, the internet wouldn't work, your truck wouldn't be drivable without the complex engine management software, etc... it would be the end of the modern world..dark ages. 

Edited by Robert Hall
  • Haha 1
  • Agree 1
Robert Hall Veteran

Robert Hall

Posted
Posted
Just now, balthazar said:

Aren't the hackers & 'anarchy activists' also in the software arena?

Can I judge the entirety of people who work creating software by them alone?

Those resource units are on the dark side of the biz.

  • Agree 1
G. David Felt Grand Master

G. David Felt

Posted
Posted

I can honestly say that I have worked with a few honest decent salespeople and gone back to them over and over. I have more than often made auto salespeople cry, break down, etc. I set the ground rules, I demand straight forward answers and I do not accept BS approach to buying.

Amazing that they are more common in sleaze than a decent honest sales person.

  • Agree 1
balthazar

balthazar

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Without ANY sort of corroborating evidence, I shall henceforth deem all software writers to be 'scum of the earth' because of how 'many' complaints about credit card fraud, data breaches, identity theft and private/commercial mayhem that's been caused over 'many' years. 

Abolish all the software people!!  Only let robots write code/programs!!  Man the pitchforks & torches!!

  • Haha 2
ccap41 Veteran

ccap41

Posted
Posted

A big differentiator between hackers and salespeople are one is supposedly working to sell to all people and their sales also benefit quite a few people up the line, hackers are either individuals benefitting only themselves (not profiting) for personal reasons or benefitting a small few who're paying them. I have great doubt any of these hackers are working for any company and if they're paid, it's most certainly under the table. 

  • Like 1
balthazar

balthazar

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 3/2/2022 at 12:29 AM, balthazar said:

Will be interesting to watch the stock from here - it's already dropped from its peak of $172 to today's close of $61. 

^ 'Today' was 3/2.

Today (3/7), the stock closed at $42.43. Of course, today was a big sell-off (Dow down 800), but Rivian's 10% drop today is on top of a 29% drop last week. 

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