Rivian MSRP's see stratospheric jump

[balthazar]

Rivian has announced MSRP price spikes on both the R1T and R1S vehicles, of 17% and 20% respectively, citing "inflationary costs".

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/rivian-hikes-vehicle-prices-20-011627886.html

For the R1T, that mean the originally-announced $67,500 base price will rise $11,475 to $78,975.  
For the R1S, it's original $70,000 tag will jump $14,000 to $84,000.

Apparently effective immediately, this INCLUDES vehicles already ordered.  Customer backlash is already occurring, with buyers threatening to cancel orders.  

With no dealer network to compete on pricing, this is your new 'no-haggle' mandatory base price.  Just don't call it 'bait & switch'. ?

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Rivian has announced MSRP price spikes on both the R1T and R1S vehicles, of 17% and 20% respectively, citing "inflationary costs".

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/rivian-hikes-vehicle-prices-20-011627886.html

For the R1T, that mean the originally-announced $67,500 base price will rise $11,475 to $78,975.  
For the R1S, it's original $70,000 tag will jump $14,000 to $84,000.

Apparently effective immediately, this INCLUDES vehicles already ordered.  Customer backlash is already occurring, with buyers threatening to cancel orders.  

With no dealer network to compete on pricing, this is your new 'no-haggle' mandatory base price.  Just don't call it 'bait & switch'. ?

Totally expected as inflation is running crazy across the globe and especially with the Idiot Putin invading Ukraine to fulfill his dictatorship desires, this is going to just increase shortages and crazy prices.

Proctor and Gamble is increasing prices across their full portfolio with next fulfillment shipments to retailers. Cost across the board is going to go up especially after Target today announced they are moving most retail positions to a starting wage of $24 an hour due to the basic fast-food places and other retail jobs moving to $15 to $19 an hour.

Interest rates I see are already going up ahead of the fed meeting where they are expected to raise interest rates a full 1% at least.

I expect us to go through the next few years and see interest rates crazy like the early to mid 80's. I remember people buying homes with a 14% 30-year mortgage loan rate. CRAZY

[balthazar]

With consumers revolting, no; I don't at all think it was 'totally expected'. Not sure where you get that from.
Consumer price index rose 0.6 in January, annual inflation is 7.5%, Rivian raised pricing 17-20%, not 7%.

But more to the point- skyjacking MSRPs on already ordered vehicles is the lowest sort of nasty business practices. At least honor those.  But with no pricing competition- the consumer is powerless...  but at least he gets spared from the horrors of 'negotiating'. ? Pay up, sucker!

Will be interesting to watch the stock from here - it's already dropped from its peak of $172 to today's close of $61. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

6 minutes ago, balthazar said:

With consumers revolting, no; I don't at all think it was 'totally expected'. Not sure where you get that from.
Consumer price index rose 0.6 in January, annual inflation is 7.5%, Rivian raised pricing 17-20%, not 7%.

But more to the point- skyjacking MSRPs on already ordered vehicles is the lowest sort of nasty business practices. At least honor those.  But with no pricing competition- the consumer is powerless...  but at least he gets spared from the horrors of 'negotiating'. ? Pay up, sucker!

Will be interesting to watch the stock from here - it's already dropped from its peak of $172 to today's close of $61. 

True, I am watching the stock as I think long term it will be worth buying, but I am hoping it will drop more to maximize the upside swing. 

Ford stock will be interesting to watch tomorrow after their press release since it got hammered today due to the Russia mess.

[balthazar]

The 2nd Rivian factory is looking more & more like an unnecessary white elephant.  They're never going to be putting out even 300K units per year, never mind 600K.  I would love to know where they think their volume is going to come from.  

When & how much will the next MSRP jack be??  This is very unfortunate event for the company's near future.

[surreal1272]

8 hours ago, balthazar said:

With consumers revolting, no; I don't at all think it was 'totally expected'. Not sure where you get that from.

Maybe it’s the fact that everything else, including all ICE cars have gone up as well. This article only confirms that Rivian is facing the same issues as everyone else. Sorry but this is nothing more than a clickbait thread to try and single out an EV maker while ignoring the world around it that affected the change in question here. 

Just going to leave this right here is bid this thread farewell. 
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38748092/new-car-average-sale-prices-47100/

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

8 hours ago, balthazar said:

Will be interesting to watch the stock from here - it's already dropped from its peak of $172 to today's close of $61. 

It's been in the 50's-60's since Jan 19th. After their initial first-week rally, it's been down for awhile. It peaked at 172 on the 5th trading day, November 16th. 

Yesterday it did drop 8.36% from 67.56 to 61.91. 

[surreal1272]

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

But with no pricing competition- the consumer is powerless...  but at least he gets spared from the horrors of 'negotiating'. ? Pay up, sucker!

Yeah because dealerships have sure been in the “negotiating” mood for the last two years lol. Must be why companies like GM and Ford have threatened various dealerships for their “negotiating” tactics. Seriously flawed logic you have going on here Balth. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

all ICE cars have gone up as well

17 and 20%?  Please... cite me some examples.

Just re-built my truck as a '22, MSRP went up $345.
Rivian went up $11,475... but 'it's all the same'. ?
 

22 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

dealerships have sure been in the “negotiating” mood for the last two years lol.

How did I get 17% UNDER MSRP only 10 months ago?
Anybody going to get a Rivian for 17% UNDER MSRP?  

Stock market open not quite a half hour as I type this; Rivian stock down another 8%, to a new 52-wk low.

Edited March 2, 2022 by balthazar

[riviera74]

Cars have been getting more expensive in the last two years.  The percentages may be shocking but not much else.

BTW: How many vehicles have Rivian actually sold in the last two years?  It can't be more than the sales of the newest Silverado/Sierra in that time.

[ccap41]

23 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Stock market open not quite a half hour as I type this; Rivian stock down another 8%, to a new 52-wk low.

Yeah, this will likely bring it down some. This is atrocious PR. I understand raising prices on new orders but you CANNOT raise prices for those who ordered vehicles a year ago and just still haven't received it yet. 

Also, when I say I understand raising prices, I DO NOT understand 17% and 20% increases. Like Surreal has said, prices have gone up on about everything in the past few years but vehicles absolutely have not gone up anywhere near that. 

[balthazar]

Rivian sold 920 vehicles in December. This is their only month of retail sales in 2021.

Same month, GM sold 57,705 Silverados & Sierras (combined).

[ccap41]

20 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

BTW: How many vehicles have Rivian actually sold in the last two years?  It can't be more than the sales of the newest Silverado/Sierra in that time.

It's only been on sale for a few months, I believe. They've probably only sold/built a few hundred, maybe a thousand at this point. 

[balthazar]

Just now, ccap41 said:

you CANNOT raise prices for those who ordered vehicles a year ago and just still haven't received it yet. 

I agree with the sentiment completely, but OEM-direct sales models apparently can gouge as deep or as frequently as they want. 

[ccap41]

Just now, balthazar said:

I agree with the sentiment completely, but OEM-direct sales models apparently can gouge as deep or as frequently as they want. 

Is this much different than dealerships adding the "market adjustment" to vehicles already ordered? I disagree with both tactics, by the way. 

[ccap41]

This actually makes me wonder what my uncle will do. He was supposed to get his R1T sometime in March. I know money isn't an issue to him but I wonder if this will piss him off and cancel just out of spite. I should reach out to him and see what's up. 

[Robert Hall]

Sounds like Rivian's financials are pretty shaky if they feel the need to make a move like this..or very overconfident.  

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

I agree with the sentiment completely, but OEM-direct sales models apparently can gouge as deep or as frequently as they want. 

Tesla maybe but you are selectively ignoring why the price jump happened in the first place which again, has affected all makes. Rivian miscalculated and will honor the original price for those who have already started the financing. The rest have been giving options to get their deposits back. And spare me this direct buy nonsense when dealers have their own price gouging tactics that you seem to ignore. Also skip the invention of the “no haggle” dealership model started under GM (when Saturn came out) that many dealerships still use today. Again, this is much ado about nothing IMO. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

It is very interesting that so many news sources have covered this and Rivian has not posted an official anouncement in their news feed nor have they changed prices on their web site yet. As of this morning,

According to this story: https://www.reuters.com/technology/rivian-hiles-vehicle-prices-by-20-citing-inflationary-pressure-2022-03-02/

So, the starting Explore truck should be showing a starting at $79,500 but it does not. There is no source on these stories as many posts back to Reuters, Wallstreet, Bloomberg, but no actual source in Rivian who has officially announced this price increase. One has to wonder what is going on with this news.

I am liking Ford and GM to bring affordable BEV Trucks to market before Rivian or Tesla.

EDIT: Meant to check the SUV too and I see no price change there yet either.

[balthazar]

Maybe it’s a journalistic conspiracy against Rivian; making the whole thing up. Rivian might be dropping prices by 20 grand instead.

14 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

this is much ado about nothing

Glad a $20 grand price bump is no big deal to you. You’re very fortunate.

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Is this much different than dealerships adding the "market adjustment" to vehicles already ordered?

Yes; because that’s not a universal move. I know of dealerships today that are charging but $300 over MSRP- you always have the option of shopping for a better deal. Not the case when the OEM controls all pricing.

[ccap41]

14 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Yes; because that’s not a universal move. I know of dealerships today that are charging but $300 over MSRP- you always have the option of shopping for a better deal. Not the case when the OEM controls all pricing.

Good point, that's fair enough. 

[balthazar]

Case in point randomly popping up on FB GMC group; a monstrous $12,000 over sticker!! 

EDIT : oops! I mean $181 over sticker. Finger slipped on the calculator. But still; ‘same thing as going on at Rivian’.

Edited March 2, 2022 by balthazar

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Case in point randomly popping up on FB GMC group; a monstrous $12,000 over sticker!! 

EDIT : oops! I mean $181 over sticker. Finger slipped on the calculator. But still; ‘same thing as going on at Rivian’.

Not apples to apples but I guess you didn't read the article I posted. Over the summer the average new car price was $40K and now it is $47K. That is almost a 20% jump in that time but you want to find fault in Rivian? Seriously? You're doing Mercedes fans proud with the cherry picking. 

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Glad a $20 grand price bump is no big deal to you. You’re very fortunate.

Again, refundable deposit for non-financed buyers (and those financed buyers keep the original price) and they can find something else, perhaps a Ford Lightning that is bigger yet cheaper than the Rivian. Yes, much ado about damn nothing. 

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Maybe it’s a journalistic conspiracy against Rivian; making the whole thing up. Rivian might be dropping prices by 20 grand instead.

So now it's $20K and not the $11,495 and $14K that you, yourself, posted? 

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Maybe it’s a journalistic conspiracy against Rivian; making the whole thing up. Rivian might be dropping prices by 20 grand instead.

So now it's $20K and not the $11,495 and $14K that you, yourself, posted? 

 

And damn. I said I was done earlier with this clickbait and had to go back and look. I have made my point though and I 10000% standby the fact that this much ado about nothing.

[balthazar]

13 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Good point, that's fair enough. 

I don’t get how people don’t see this.

OEM- controlled pricing is like having ONE dealership for the entire country. You are GOING to pay their price or go without. 

It’s a textbook definition of a monopoly…. but this country no longer challenges those.

 

11 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

ot apples to apples but I guess you didn't read the article I posted. Over the summer the average new car price was $40K and now it is $47K. That is almost a 20% jump in that time but you want to find fault in Rivian?

You are bringing ATPs into a discussion on MSRPs. Irrelevant.
Further, truck/SUV sales were disproportionately high in that number.

Edited March 3, 2022 by balthazar

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

So now it's $20K and not the $11,495 and $14K that you, yourself, posted? 

I meant 20%, not 20 grand. But I’m sure due to ‘inflationary circumstances’ that Rivian option prices will be bumped too, so who knows- it may end up being closer to $20 grand (but again: ATP vs MSRP).

[ccap41]

27 minutes ago, balthazar said:

It’s a textbook definition of a monopoly…. but this country no longer challenges those.

It isn't that at all though because there are still competitors. 

Ford, GM, Stellantis, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Volvo, etc. are all competitors to Rivian. 

[balthazar]

I guess. I just think of the Gov’t going after GM because all the other competitors only had like 55% of the market left. ?

Ironic that we’ve been touching on  OEM vs. dealer sales, and here comes an OEM jacking their vehicles $11K overnight / across the board… with no other option for the Rivian buyer.

Edited March 2, 2022 by balthazar

[ccap41]

They're free to order a Lightning or Silverado EV!  

[balthazar]

If that were universal, there’d be no business case for Rivian.

[ccap41]

So now nothing competes with anything? 

[ccap41]

It looks to be getting slaughtered again today. 

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

They're free to order a Lightning or Silverado EV!  

What I was saying is; are the folk who put in a Rivian reservation and really want one... simply going to shrug and go to Ford? Why did they want a Rivian to begin with; just as an impulse?

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

It looks to be getting slaughtered again today. 

That's likely largely due to the price hike news.... tho the stock has been sliding steadily down since mid-November.

[Drew Dowdell]

You can't go by base prices because the price of a bunch of the options was inflated too.  I'm on the Rivian facebook group and there are post after post of people's reservations jumping from $75k to $95k.  Lots are posting screenshots of their cancelations as well. 

It's unknowable if those are just a loud few, but the comments sections are long and what it has done is turned what was once a total FanBoi group where Rivian could do no wrong... I.E. Telsa-Lite Fanbois, and turned it into a Rivian Hate group. 

Horrible public relations move.

[balthazar]

$20 grand, you say?

[Drew Dowdell]

15 minutes ago, balthazar said:

$20 grand, you say?

Up to. Yes, depending on the options selected. There is also some slight of hand by Rivian as well where some things stayed the same price but were decontented. Like the new standard battery pack has 54 miles less range while the original battery spec went up by $6k in price. Some optional paint prices went up $1000, and every color but silver is an optional color. One of the interior colors went up by $2k. So right there, getting the old standard battery, a paint color, and an interior other than black and your cost went up $9k. Still want the original spec quad motor AWD instead of the new standard dual motor AWD? That’ll be another $6k. Hitting a $15k increase with just 4 options is pretty easy to do.

[balthazar]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:25 PM, balthazar said:

Just don't call it 'bait & switch'. ?

TOO LATE!!
 

 

The source article (from a reservation holder) :
https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/03/02/rivians-bait-and-switch-already-costing-company/?source=eptyholnk0000202&utm_source=yahoo-host&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=article

[surreal1272]

12 hours ago, balthazar said:

$20 grand, you say?

You don’t get to do that SMK. You had no clue about the $20K which (as Drew pointed out) is certain trim packages. Don’t act like you had foresight here when you didn’t. 
 

And please keep defending the $h! practices of dealerships, practices that have been proven to you time and time again so that you can deflect to OEMs like Rivian and make exaggerated claims of “bait and switch” while dealerships have literally been doing that very same thing (in one fashion or another) for decades. Again, refer to Ford and GM putting their dealerships on notice…or just ignore it like you’ve done up to this point. 
 

https://www.autocheatsheet.com/car-dealer-scams/bait-and-switch-car-dealer-scam.html

And even after being warned by Ford, some dealerships are still being dirty but hey, we need them right?

https://tfltruck.com/2022/02/report-2022-ford-lightning-bait-and-switch-a-dealer-is-still-charging-a-markup/

 

And just one google search on “car dealership bait and switch” reveals shots like this,

 

Again, for the fourth time, what Rivian did was dumb. They let people reserve these trucks based on price estimates made almost three years ago. Some important things, like rampant inflation and COVID, have happened since then. Now, if they keep doing this, then there is a Tesla issue here. However, this is way more overblown than Balth wants to make it out. Show him the exact same practices done by dealerships, and he will say something like “well, I got a great deal at my dealership” like that discounts what happened at other places. Sorry, but maybe it’s best to let this one play out a bit before jumping to the gun crucify something you had no interest in buying in the first place. 

Edited March 3, 2022 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

And here we have those wonderful dealerships trying to claim lease cars from customers when their leases run out instead of letting customer offer to buy/finance it. Yeah, great option there from those mean OEMs. 
 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/09/28/business/ag-advises-its-illegal-advertise-one-price-vehicle-then-charge-another/?outputType=amp

[Drew Dowdell]

45 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

OEMs like Rivian and make exaggerated claims of “bait and switch”

This is actually Rivian's second bait and switch.  

The first was when they promised all of the reservation holders early access to the IPO. Then they advertised the IPO at a certain price for a month or two.  Then the share price shot up a lot right before the IPO.

There are people who reserved their Rivian on day one of reservations who still haven't gotten theirs.  They had their configuration submitted and their price agreed on. Now they're getting e-mails of $15k - $20k price increases on their reservation.

That's not how reservations work.

[ccap41]

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

There are people who reserved their Rivian on day one of reservations who still haven't gotten theirs.  They had their configuration submitted and their price agreed on. Now they're getting e-mails of $15k - $20k price increases on their reservation.

That's not how reservations work.

Even if I had the extra cash for such a purchase, I'd be out on principal. Fck a company who does that to their customers. 

[surreal1272]

6 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

This is actually Rivian's second bait and switch.  

The first was went they promised all of the reservation holders early access to the IPO. Then they advertised the IPO at a certain price for a month or two.  Then the share price shot up a lot right before the IPO.

There are people who reserved their Rivian on day one of reservations who still haven't gotten theirs.  They had their configuration submitted and their price agreed on. Now they're getting e-mails of $15k - $20k price increases on their reservation.

That's not how reservations work.

Like I said, it is a screw up on Rivian part but including IPO issues is stretching the initial claim by Balth a bit though. That is, sadly, a more common practice than folks are aware of and certainly no unique to Rivian (IPOs, that is). Fact is though, that Balth has been beating this drum for months while ignoring or defending similar and sometimes worse practices at dealerships because they are not happening at his dealership so it really doesn’t matter to him, it seems. 

Edited March 3, 2022 by surreal1272

[Drew Dowdell]

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Even if I had the extra cash for such a purchase, I'd be out on principal. Fck a company who does that to their customers. 

A lot of people on the Rivian group are saying exactly that.  There are those who are saying "I could afford it, but RJ (the CEO) lied to us and now I've lost all faith in the company. I've canceled my order".

Rivian needed this Fanboi base like Tesla has. They royally screwed the pooch on this.  The stock is tanking for good reason. They pissed off the fanbois. 

 

I'll try and post some screenshots later.

[ccap41]

6 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

sometimes worse practices at dealerships

What's much worse than preordering a new vehicle with a deposit to have that price spike 17-20%? 

[balthazar]

^ It's going to price a LOT of reservation holders out of the brand, no question.

You can't do shit like that and not expect to see serious flight.  I don't think there's EVER been an OEM price increase like this on the same (non-refreshed) vehicle.  Even 10%.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  $11,475 is a LOT of cash even at this price tier.

Some folk are theorizing that Rivian is over-extended, and this may be a move to actually discourage R1T / R1S sales so Rivian can focus more on the commercial contract.  Stupid, stupid way to go about it, if true.
 

59 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Show him the exact same practices done by dealerships

'Dealerships' aren't a national united entity with no pricing variables.  "You continue to ignore this".  Anecdotal high-side dealership examples don't remotely add up to unilateral, zero competition price increases, they just don't.  It's NOT "the exact same thing" and "you know it". 

We'll see how this pans out for Rivian. Stock continues to slide this morning...
 

[ccap41]

Seems they’re trying to fix their colossal mistake. 

[Drew Dowdell]

6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Seems they’re trying to fix their colossal mistake. 

*rushes over to facebook*

[G. David Felt]

9 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Seems they’re trying to fix their colossal mistake. 

RJ learned a harsh lesson with this boondoggle.

[surreal1272]

9 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Seems they’re trying to fix their colossal mistake. 

So they saw their mistake and fixed it, thus (for now) killing this much ado about nothing (again, for now). 

[Drew Dowdell]

The Facebook group is celebrating but there is still a lot of bitterness about it.

Even if every single person reinstates their original reservation, the trust of the company is broken and it will not be forgotten.