NG STS proposal

[Northstar]

This is simply an idea I got from the Audi A7 spyshots (CLS fighter) and is not based on any information about the NG STS itself. This is simply a proposal I would make if I worked within GM. Anyways...

Why not make the STS a CLS/A7 "4-door coupe" type vehicle? The next CTS is growing and moving upscale, which would tell me that with a mid-level (non V-Series) V8, it would be a formidable 5-Series and E-Class, etc., competitor.

Now, that is the market segment the current STS competes in, and I don't see a need for Cadillac to compete with two cars in one market segment. The BLS will be coming to fill the lower-end of the market that the CTS will be leaving, but that doesn't really matter.

With the ULS coming to compete against the S-Class, et al, I don't see any need for the CTS, STS, and ULS crammed into three market segments when really only two vehicles are needed. So, why not move the STS more upscale and transform it into a CLS competitor? It seems to me the NG STS will only cannibalize sales from the CTS and ULS, so why not give it its own niche and bring in some new buyers to Cadillac?

What does everyone think?

[enzl]

This is simply an idea I got from the Audi A7 spyshots (CLS fighter) and is not based on any information about the NG STS itself. This is simply a proposal I would make if I worked within GM. Anyways...

Why not make the STS a CLS/A7 "4-door coupe" type vehicle? The next CTS is growing and moving upscale, which would tell me that with a mid-level (non V-Series) V8, it would be a formidable 5-Series and E-Class, etc., competitor.

Now, that is the market segment the current STS competes in, and I don't see a need for Cadillac to compete with two cars in one market segment. The BLS will be coming to fill the lower-end of the market that the CTS will be leaving, but that doesn't really matter.

With the ULS coming to compete against the S-Class, et al, I don't see any need for the CTS, STS, and ULS crammed into three market segments when really only two vehicles are needed. So, why not move the STS more upscale and transform it into a CLS competitor? It seems to me the NG STS will only cannibalize sales from the CTS and ULS, so why not give it its own niche and bring in some new buyers to Cadillac?

What does everyone think?

CLS is a flash in the pan.

You heard it here first. CLS sales will slow within 18 mo. of intro.....and some would argue its cannibalized CL sales, as it is sexier, meaner and more practical than the CL .

Lets concentrate on spectacular product, an order of magnitude beyond the current STS. Think Catera to CTS transformation...I'l take that, a 10% discount on MSRP, a 20% superiority in HP and a solid interior to challenge in this class...

...make a 2 dr. CTS, a 4 place hardtop C vert with the tooling and see 300K in sales with the improved STS. Make sure you can stretch the New Sigma upwards of 12" so you have options.....

Just my .02.

[DetroitNut90]

I like the idea of Cadillac getting a CLS fighter, but I'd rather see the STS name stay on the E-Class/5-Series fighter. However, I'd rather see Cadillac focus on becoming "The Standard of the World" again instead of seeing how many vehicles it can send off to market.

Edited June 13, 2006 by DetroitNut90

[ehaase]

This post by Evok may represent the latest thinking on the STS replacement. It makes sense to me.

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...24entry151224

Edited June 14, 2006 by ehaase

[ToniCipriani]

If STS is the 5-series fighter, then I hope the next CTS goes down in size. It's not about "luxury is bigger" these days.

[red]

What evok stated would allow a more focused product line for Cadillac as well as Buick.

Cadillac needs to seriously plan the STS replacement well. Additionally, axing the FWD DTS will allow the division to focus on its RWD Euro-fighting, luxo-performance mantra, while allowing Buick to push the NG Lucerne further upmarket.

Cadillac's STS replacement needs to be priced more competitively, grow slightly in size, and make a *much* bolder statement than the current, watered-down-nearly-anonymous vehicle. Interior needs a significant upgrade and equally bold design, but what else is new from GM's Nagging Problems Department.

Evok briefly mentioned that the current engine lineup would do. However, I disagree, as I believe an equal amount of focus needs to be placed on powertrain. Given my uneducated competitive outlook on engines, my "gut" suggests a 290+ hp V6 with cylinder deactivation, 360+ hp V8 with equal technology, hybrid options for both, as well as 6-speed manumatic transmissions. Of course a V-variant would be necessary, but I feel that GMPD never ceases to impress.

On the interior of the STS replacement (be it DTS or XTS or whatever they call it), GM really needs to approach the interior as if every piece of the interior is treated as a unique, finely crafted work of art. This does not mean sticking chrome rings around knobs, but looking at ways to innovate by using unique premium materials that consumers would not expect. Think the switchgear of the Veyron, the trunk hinges of the Phaeton, et al for inspiration.

The next generation STS should move significantly upmarket, to be the cream of the crop, S-Class fighter that states "I am Cadillac, I am the World Standard." I believe if they tried, GM could spare at least one vehicle of watered-down compromises, parts-bin sharing, and inauthentic plastic replicas of true artwork. Maybe you should let the GMPD whiz kids handle the entire project.

[evok]

And don't forget the GMX276 vehicle on top of the STS/DTS replacement.

The NG STS/DTS whatever it is called should compete with the 7 and S on size but not on price.

[ehaase]

The NG STS/DTS whatever it is called should compete with the 7 and S on size but not on price.

Absolutely. Cadillac needs a strong entry in the $45,000 to $60,000 sedan market. It isn't ready for the $70,000 to $100,000 market.

[ZL-1]

And don't forget the GMX276 vehicle on top of the STS/DTS replacement.

The NG STS/DTS whatever it is called should compete with the 7 and S on size but not on price.

What's the GMX276?

[Northstar]

GMX276 is the ULS.

[ZL-1]

Thanks, Northstar.

@ evok: wouldn't you agree that the next STS/DTS needs to compete by offering similar content/features to the 7-Series/S-Class/A8/XJ for a lower price, and not just by being a 7-Series-sized car at a 5-Series price?

[evok]

@ evok: wouldn't you agree that the next STS/DTS needs to compete by offering similar content/features to the 7-Series/S-Class/A8/XJ for a lower price, and not just by being a 7-Series-sized car at a 5-Series price?

GM could continue to make features available and content and price the vehicle according to option packages. Much like they do already on their product.

I really dont not know that there is much of a difference in the current DTS/STS with the 7 or S in terms of available content. Some electronic mumbo jumbo but nothing that would add significant value or volume to the product.

The current STS just needs to be repackage being slightly longer and significantly wider. Content is fine.

[jbartley]

GM could continue to make features available and content and price the vehicle according to option packages.  Much like they do already on their product.

I really dont not know that there is much of a difference in the current DTS/STS with the 7 or S in terms of available content.  Some electronic mumbo jumbo but nothing that would add significant value or volume to the product.

The current STS just needs to be repackage being slightly longer and significantly wider.  Content is fine.

the STS is loaded with everyone thing you could want in a car. But the interior is to sterile and generic, and the outside was watered down.

The reason my dad got a CTS, is the same reason why he won't buy an STS. It just doesn't get provoke the same reaction. It's Bob Lutz's one error while at GM.

Just make the NG longer, a little wider, and serious cosmetic enhancements will go along way!

[ZL-1]

GM could continue to make features available and content and price the vehicle according to option packages.  Much like they do already on their product.

I really dont not know that there is much of a difference in the current DTS/STS with the 7 or S in terms of available content.  Some electronic mumbo jumbo but nothing that would add significant value or volume to the product.

So would it be logical for me to come to the conclusion that it's an issue of Cadillac not being able to charge the kind of prices BMW, MB and Jaguar are able to charge for their cars? An image issue, basically?

And another issue comes to mind reading your posts: how can GM expect to have Cadillac gain volume globally without taking the risk of going head to head with the competition at all levels, including price? Coming to Europe and advertising a larger car based soleely on 'bigger size at a lower price' doesn't work. I suspect it wouldn't work in Asia either, where cities are really crowded.

[red]

See, I actually think content is weak on the STS/DTS. That's one thing I feel they could improve...

While not crucial, it wouldn't hurt to have the power headrests/belt adjusters of the S-Class, as would more rear seat luxuries such as woodgrained/detailed controls in the armrest, power sunshades, power rear seats that are cooled/heated, etc. If Cadillac is aiming to be the Standard of the World, why not offer some ridiculously luxurious features of the competition...and then some?

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Yeah I don't understand why DTS has a 1SA-1SE or 1SF group-they should have three regular levels at the most, excluding a V-Series type (which I know doesn't or won't exist, but just for example).

[Drew Dowdell]

See, I actually think content is weak on the STS/DTS.  That's one thing I feel they could improve...

While not crucial, it wouldn't hurt to have the power headrests/belt adjusters of the S-Class, as would more rear seat luxuries such as woodgrained/detailed controls in the armrest, power sunshades, power rear seats that are cooled/heated, etc.  If Cadillac is aiming to be the Standard of the World, why not offer some ridiculously luxurious features of the competition...and then some?

Bluetooth... seriously.

just because I'm willing to dump 60k on a car doesn't mean I want to pay through the nose for a cell phone I can only use while driving.<onstar> with a seperate number from the one I normally use.

[evok]

Bluetooth... seriously.

just because I'm willing to dump 60k on a car doesn't mean I want to pay through the nose for a cell phone I can only use while driving.<onstar> with a seperate number from the one I normally use.

No $hit, that pisses me off with my car. And on top of it my Onstar number is out of state i.e. not a local number.

[jry]

well, i just did a deal for one today. V6 AWD. ordered the corsa exhaust.

hope the quality is everything they say it is. probably will get it on tues.

[BigPontiac]

No $hit, that pisses me off with my car.  And on top of it my Onstar number is out of state i.e. not a local number.

If you have Verizon as your cell carrier, you can combine your Onstar with it. Lame, yes...but better than nothing right now. More info. Not sure it's offered in all markets.

Bluetooth and Homelink should be offered across the board in GM vehicles.

[evok]

If you have Verizon as your cell carrier, you can combine your Onstar with it.  Lame, yes...but better than nothing right now.  More info.  Not sure it's offered in all markets.

Bluetooth and Homelink should be offered across the board in GM vehicles.

Cingular for me but thanks for the heads up.

Edited June 16, 2006 by evok

[Sixty8panther]

I can't even think of what I think about the STS, CTS &

or any other Cadillacs when you throw the BLS into the

mix. I hate the BLS. The styling is not exactly great,

the name is BuLl&#036;h&#33; and the SAAB connection just

makes me want to

[Northstar]

The current BLS is not coming, the NG AWD one is.

[Shantanu]

The current BLS is not coming, the NG AWD one is.

Ugghhh... Keep that &#036;h&#33; in Europe. I like the $30,000 CTS just fine as Cadillac's base car. Not every brand needs to be all things to all people.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Ah...the beauty of going back and reading the original posts.....Northstar-that's a great idea! I've thought about that for a little while too-that groundbreaking Mercedes-Benz CLS is the only fully captivating M-B I've ever seen (they're breaking out in style, but not that much). CLS is not meant to boost sales, volumes, etc. Its meant to boost style and show that M-B is capable of more than bland, evolutionary cars. I think converting STS into a CLS-type competitor, whether or not called STS, would be a great idea! Offer it with a V-8 only, leave V-6's to CTS and below.

[jry]

Ah...the beauty of going back and reading the original posts.....Northstar-that's a great idea! I've thought about that for a little while too-that groundbreaking Mercedes-Benz CLS is the only fully captivating M-B I've ever seen (they're breaking out in style, but not that much). CLS is not meant to boost sales, volumes, etc. Its meant to boost style and show that M-B is capable of more than bland, evolutionary cars. I think converting STS into a CLS-type competitor, whether or not called STS, would be a great idea! Offer it with a V-8 only, leave V-6's to CTS and below.

all good stuff. however, i did take delivery of my new STS, Loaded, Lux package, with the V6, AWD and the upgrade corsa dual exhaust. WOW!! fast (about 20 more HP), nice tone out the back and it runs on regular gas.