HELMETS

[regfootball]

The Ben Roethlisbeger deal is just another example of the ludicrous nature of people not wearing helmets riding a motorcycle.

Its time to mandate it.

You will not avoid an accident. Chances are good you will take a dive at some point. The pavement is hard. Its harder than just about anything else you can think of. Maybe it doesn't look cool. But neither does an egg splattered across the pavement.

Edited June 13, 2006 by regfootball

[Northstar]

I agree they should make helmets mandatory. If seatbelts are mandatory, then helmets definetly should be; I'd rather get in a wreck in a car without my seatbelt on than get thrown off a motorcycle without a helmet.

BTW, I found it funny that Roethlisberger said he didn't buy motorcycles to go fast on, yet he bought a Suzuki that Suzuki claims is the "world's fastest street legal bike" and I also found it funny that Suzuki claims it's their safest bike as well. What makes one bike safer than another? Last I checked your body is unprotected on all motorcylces, so I fail to see how one is safer than another, much less safe at all.

[regfootball]

no one in the NFL hits as hard as the asphalt.

[PurdueGuy]

What makes one bike safer than another?

Crumple zones? lol

I also find it ironic that there is rule after rule after rule after rule about saftey equipment & standards for cars... or you can throw it all out the window & ride a motorcycle. Is there no room in between for someone who wants an uber-light vehicle with a bit of a cabin and be allowed on the road? Not sure I'd be one - I like safety, but still.

I'm not anti-motorcycle, nor anti-safety standard, but it is an interesting paradox. I think it results from politicians doing 2 things they do well: doing whatever appeals to the public (increased safety standards), and protecting their own interests (I'm sure plenty of politicians enjoy motorcycles). A simmilar paradox was pointed out with noise ordinances that exist in many areas against modified, noisy exhuast systems on cars, while motorcycles are far louder. Again, I'm not a fan of loud, obnoxious exhausts either, but it's an interesting paradox.

Summary: I don't disagree with how things are, but could understand where someone might.

[Cory Wolfe]

Yeah.. I always wear a helmet while riding the Nighthawk. My dad doesn't. I couldn't imagine hitting the pavement would feel very pleasant... I agree. Still, I hope Ben recovers... The Steeler's still need him.

[Turbojett]

I honestly don't think he'll be able to play again.

And I think helmets are mandated here. I can't tell you how many times I got yelled at by cops just as a kid for not wearing a helmet on my bicycle.

[Camino LS6]

The helmet law was repealed in PA just recently, and I say good. I can't stand laws that try to protect me from myself. It's called freedom, we seem to forget what that means a bit more each year.

[evok]

The helmet law was repealed in PA just recently, and I say good. I can't stand laws that try to protect me from myself. It's called freedom, we seem to forget what that means a bit more each year.

Agreed, though I would never in sound mind drive a car without a seat belt or ride a bike w/o a helmut, it is my choice and should not be mandated by the states for occupants over 18 yo.

[CSpec]

Does the law in PA say anything about proving you have health insurance? There's no way I'm paying for some idiot's trip to the ER because they don't have insurance.

[Camino LS6]

Does the law in PA say anything about proving you have health insurance? There's no way I'm paying for some idiot's trip to the ER because they don't have insurance.

Auto/motorcycle insurance is mandated by law in PA and has to cover personal injury at at least a minimum level.

[Drew Dowdell]

He crashed just 4 blocks from where I'm consulting. We could see the news helicopters and the emergancy vehicles from th 26th floor. Then someone's cell phone went off with the news announcement that it was Ben.

[Mr.Krinkle]

i was in PA a couple of weeks ago and noticed a couple people riding without helmets on. all i could think is wow, they must really not care. to each his own.

but even if you are the most responsible rider, theres always the chance of some jackass doing something stupid, and in a car its no biggy but you usually dont win that battle against the pavement if youre on a bike. hell, a big dog could run out from no where and send you flying. i guess thats part of the thrill too though.

[regfootball]

The helmet law was repealed in PA just recently, and I say good. I can't stand laws that try to protect me from myself. It's called freedom, we seem to forget what that means a bit more each year.

enjoy the KERSPLAT of your head against some thick hard concrete

[regfootball]

Does the law in PA say anything about proving you have health insurance? There's no way I'm paying for some idiot's trip to the ER because they don't have insurance.

^

[regfootball]

i was in PA a couple of weeks ago and noticed a couple people riding without helmets on.  all i could think is wow, they must really not care.  to each his own.

but even if you are the most responsible rider, theres always the chance of some jackass doing something stupid, and in a car its no biggy but you usually dont win that battle against the pavement if youre on a bike.  hell, a big dog could run out from no where and send you flying.  i guess thats part of the thrill too though.

yes, raw brainmeat sizzling on hot pavement is thrilling. such a shame a guy can't get no Pu$$y wearing a helmet! we all know that's the main reason guys don't wear them. Cause they can't get laid then.

[Camino LS6]

C'mon now reg, do you really want me to smash ny head on the blacktop?

Truth is I don't ride, use a seatbelt (most of the time) and would likely wear a helmet if I did ride. None of that changes the fact that I should be free not to if I so choose. Freedom is far more important than safety.

[regfootball]

C'mon now reg, do you really want me to smash ny head on the blacktop?

Truth is I don't ride, use a seatbelt (most of the time) and would likely wear a helmet if I did ride. None of that changes the fact that I should be free not to if I so choose. Freedom is far more important than safety.

I guess than we shouldn't require hard hats on construction sites.

How is preserving human health and life a bad thing? News flash, if you ride, you will have an accident.

I'm all for choice, but this is akin to wearing seatbelts. Its the same as providing a guardrail on a balcony. Its the same as providing drinking water free of poisons.

[Camino LS6]

I guess than we shouldn't require hard hats on construction sites.

How is preserving human health and life a bad thing?  News flash, if you ride, you will have an accident.

I'm all for choice, but this is akin to wearing seatbelts.  Its the same as providing a guardrail on a balcony.  Its the same as providing drinking water free of poisons.

Life causes death, make your own choices and take your own risks. I resent being forced to do anything "for my own good". The addiction to safety or the illusion of safety at all costs in this society disgusts me. I believe we have a constitutional right to screw up our lives and/or bodies in whatever way we choose. It is the choice that matters.

[ShadowDog]

Life causes death, make your own choices and take your own risks. I resent being forced to do anything "for my own good". The addiction to safety or the illusion of safety at all costs in this society disgusts me. I believe we have a constitutional right to screw up our lives and/or bodies in whatever way we choose. It is the choice that matters.

Since when is a helmet an 'illusion of safety'? Is someone with some care to protecting their kids going to tell them to wear it today, but decide if they want to care about it when they reach the age of majority? Last I knew, the "Do as I say, not as I do" argument was considered crappy parenting.

If it becomes a "constitutional right" to decide not to wear a helmet, how does one police the issue of how much insurance a person should be paying since they offer themselves no protection? The rights of those forced to pay into equal terms is being infringed upon then. A constitutional right to screw up your lives and/or bodies in whatever way you choose has a monetary value that ends up being covered by those with the brains for self-preservation habits.

Why is it a choice that should matter? I don't care if its mandatory to wear a seat belt or helmet. I'm smart enough to recognize that anything can happen, and anything conveniently available to me for my safety might as well be used since they're proven to greatly assist in survivability of most accidents. I have a choice, and that's whether to get a ticket or not. Just how severe is an inconvenience that makes people choose not to wear a helmet or belt?

"Oh noes, mah hair is all messed up!"

[Sixty8panther]

The helmet law was repealed in PA just recently, and I say good. I can't stand laws that try to protect me from myself. It's called freedom, we seem to forget what that means a bit more each year.

Yes, if I had a bike I'd wear a helmet but it should be my right to choose

weaterh or not to do so. Massachusetts has a helmet law NH does not.

Let me tell you as a Mass resident the LAST effin thing we need is more

regulation! Be carefull what you wish for, slippery slope!

[the_yellow_dart]

I think people who ride BIKES without helmets are crazy, never mind a f-ing MOTORCYCLE.

One of my good friends walked into my dorm room one day with half his helmet in each hand. He was mountain biking on a very tight trail, came up over a crest, into the air and straight into a tree head first. Helmet split right in half. He hurt his legs a little on landing, but at least his head was OK.

Another friend was biking right in front of me and took a spill right onto the top of his head onto some stone steps. When he sat up he talked gibberish for about 30 seconds and scared the crap out of me. Thankfully he came back to his senses after, and was OK.

I saw some kid I didn't know out on the trails not wearing a helmet. I watched him slide out and go into a tree with his cheek. He got all cut up from it, and when I told him that a helmet would have hit the tree first he just stared at me. Stupid kids.

[Mr.Krinkle]

most wrecks on a motorcycle, helmet or not arent going to be pleasant.

a guy around here clipped the back end of a car that was going through a redlight and flew into the traffic light pole. helmet or not he had no neck and his spine was considerably shortened.

its like those guys who build their own planes then fly em, or like bill maher said of race car drivers once, one minute theyre here flying around an oil slicked race track at 200 mph and then the next minute theyre gone. why? it just doesnt make sense.

or something like that.

[Satty]

If I'm biking a difficult, dangerour trail I wear a helmet but when its one of the well kept park trail, I dont bother, nothing to hit my head on, no roads to cross, nowhere to wipeout because of a sudden turn.

[Drew Dowdell]

If I'm biking a difficult, dangerour trail I wear a helmet but when its one of the well kept park trail, I dont bother, nothing to hit my head on, no roads to cross, nowhere to wipeout because of a sudden turn.

dude, you need to wear a helmet when you drive your car....

[Satty]

Not a bad idea, I'll leave it in the back seat so thenext time I fly off the road I can put it on quickly.

[z28luvr01]

I fell off my bike two weeks ago and would have cracked my head on concrete had I not been wearing a helmet. Luckily it was just a bruised shoulder and ribs. It was a somewhat painful way to learn the importance of tightening handlebars after you adust them.

[Flybrian]

its like those guys who build their own planes then fly em,  or like bill maher said of race car drivers once,  one minute theyre here flying around an oil slicked race track at 200 mph and then the next minute theyre gone.

I have a funny story about a man who knew who did just that...and crashed...seven seperate time, twice in the span of an hour.

[regfootball]

Since when is a helmet an 'illusion of safety'?  Is someone with some care to protecting their kids going to tell them to wear it today, but decide if they want to care about it when they reach the age of majority?  Last I knew, the "Do as I say, not as I do" argument was considered crappy parenting. 

If it becomes a "constitutional right" to decide not to wear a helmet, how does one police the issue of how much insurance a person should be paying since they offer themselves no protection?  The rights of those forced to pay into equal terms is being infringed upon then.  A constitutional right to screw up your lives and/or bodies in whatever way you choose has a monetary value that ends up being covered by those with the brains for self-preservation habits.

Why is it a choice that should matter?  I don't care if its mandatory to wear a seat belt or helmet.  I'm smart enough to recognize that anything can happen, and anything conveniently available to me for my safety might as well be used since they're proven to greatly assist in survivability of most accidents.  I have a choice, and that's whether to get a ticket or not.  Just how severe is an inconvenience that makes people choose not to wear a helmet or belt?

"Oh noes, mah hair is all messed up!"

if you are in an accident and not wearing a helmet, but you get hospitalized for serious injury, your insurance payout should be capped at a maximum amount equivalent to what you would have needed for treatment had you wore a helmet. i.e. payout for some scrapes vs. three weeks in a coma and tons of therapy afterwards.

Edited June 13, 2006 by regfootball

[regfootball]

I think people who ride BIKES without helmets are crazy, never mind a f-ing MOTORCYCLE.

One of my good friends walked into my dorm room one day with half his helmet in each hand. He was mountain biking on a very tight trail, came up over a crest, into the air and straight into a tree head first. Helmet split right in half. He hurt his legs a little on landing, but at least his head was OK.

Another friend was biking right in front of me and took a spill right onto the top of his head onto some stone steps. When he sat up he talked gibberish for about 30 seconds and scared the crap out of me. Thankfully he came back to his senses after, and was OK.

I saw some kid I didn't know out on the trails not wearing a helmet. I watched him slide out and go into a tree with his cheek. He got all cut up from it, and when I told him that a helmet would have hit the tree first he just stared at me. Stupid kids.

all the dip$h! Lance Armstrong wannabes who ride their own personal tour defrance on our highest traveled streets and roadways need the helemts too because look at how many of em get knocked off by cars! Stay on the bike trails!

[regfootball]

I fell off my bike two weeks ago and would have cracked my head on concrete had I not been wearing a helmet. Luckily it was just a bruised shoulder and ribs. It was a somewhat painful way to learn the importance of tightening handlebars after you adust them.

ROLLER BLADERS NEED EM TOO!

[Camino LS6]

Since when is a helmet an 'illusion of safety'?  Is someone with some care to protecting their kids going to tell them to wear it today, but decide if they want to care about it when they reach the age of majority?  Last I knew, the "Do as I say, not as I do" argument was considered crappy parenting. 

If it becomes a "constitutional right" to decide not to wear a helmet, how does one police the issue of how much insurance a person should be paying since they offer themselves no protection?  The rights of those forced to pay into equal terms is being infringed upon then.  A constitutional right to screw up your lives and/or bodies in whatever way you choose has a monetary value that ends up being covered by those with the brains for self-preservation habits.

Why is it a choice that should matter?  I don't care if its mandatory to wear a seat belt or helmet.  I'm smart enough to recognize that anything can happen, and anything conveniently available to me for my safety might as well be used since they're proven to greatly assist in survivability of most accidents.  I have a choice, and that's whether to get a ticket or not.  Just how severe is an inconvenience that makes people choose not to wear a helmet or belt?

"Oh noes, mah hair is all messed up!"

First of all, I never said that wearing a helmet was an illusion of safety (I would call it a small measure of safety as riding a motorcycle is inherently hazardous). I also never mentioned parenting at all.

Secondly, constitutional rights are something that we already have ( though they are threatened daily). To equate my general statement about the degree of those rights to a constitutional right not to wear a helmet as a matter of written law is a bit over the top.

As for the moentary value lost by exercising such freedoms, it would be cheap at twice the price. Freedom is also more important then money.

It is not an issue of inconvenience, it is an issue of principle. I'm an individualist, not a socialist, so I don't give a rat's ass about the greater good if it pinches individual freedom. Most especially when an attempt is being made through regulation to protect me from myself. That kind of law will always piss me off even if it doesn't apply to my daily life. I'll make those decisions for myself, thank you.

[sciguy_0504]

Auto/motorcycle insurance is mandated by law in PA and has to cover personal injury at at least a minimum level.

Yet that law is rarely enforced. If you are going to have a law, enforce it, especially if it makes sense for the rest of the population (ie. our insurance premiums go down).

When was the last time someone was given a ticket for changing lanes without a turn signal? I see it happen all the time and if the cops went after these people (as well as other people who do stupid things other than speed) their police departments would be pulling in dough as if they hit the lottery every day.

Motorcycle deaths have risen 40% in PA since that law was repealed. A news report mentioned it tonight. My thinking: if you're stupid enough to not wear a helmet, you shouldn't be on the roads anyway, if you get what I mean.

[Camino LS6]

Yet that law is rarely enforced.  If you are going to have a law, enforce it, especially if it makes sense for the rest of the population (ie. our insurance premiums go down).

When was the last time someone was given a ticket for changing lanes without a turn signal?  I see it happen all the time and if the cops went after these people (as well as other people who do stupid things other than speed) their police departments would be pulling in dough as if they hit the lottery every day.

Motorcycle deaths have risen 40% in PA since that law was repealed.  A news report mentioned it tonight.  My thinking:  if you're stupid enough to not wear a helmet, you shouldn't be on the roads anyway, if you get what I mean.

Actually, you can't re-new your registration without valid insurance. You have to provide the name of the insurance co., the policy number, the effective date, the expiration date, and the mileage on the vehicle. So yes, it is enforced.

[76ChevyTrucker]

Alabama has a helmet law, so I guess my arguement against one would be moot. I know that I would wear one along with some form of body armor or pads under my regular clothes to help pad me some if I had to dump the bike expectedly or unexpectedly. Then again with a kid on the way, the wifey won't exactly let me go get a bike like I want, but that's beside the point.

[regfootball]

First of all, I never said that wearing a helmet was an illusion of safety (I would call it a small measure of safety as riding a motorcycle is inherently hazardous). I also never mentioned parenting at all.

Secondly, constitutional rights are something that we already have ( though they are threatened daily).  To equate my general statement about the degree of those rights to a constitutional right not to wear a helmet as a matter of written law is a bit over the top.

As for the moentary value lost by exercising such freedoms, it would be cheap at twice the price. Freedom is also more important then money.

It is not an issue of inconvenience, it is an issue of principle.  I'm an individualist, not a socialist, so I don't give a rat's ass about the greater good if it pinches individual freedom. Most especially when an attempt is being made through regulation to protect me from myself. That kind of law will always piss me off even if it doesn't apply to my daily life. I'll make those decisions for myself, thank you.

Next time I go out for a drive, I thiink I will drive on the left side of the road. I feel like it. Its my freedom.

Edited June 14, 2006 by regfootball

[regfootball]

Yet that law is rarely enforced.  If you are going to have a law, enforce it, especially if it makes sense for the rest of the population (ie. our insurance premiums go down).

When was the last time someone was given a ticket for changing lanes without a turn signal?  I see it happen all the time and if the cops went after these people (as well as other people who do stupid things other than speed) their police departments would be pulling in dough as if they hit the lottery every day.

Motorcycle deaths have risen 40% in PA since that law was repealed.  A news report mentioned it tonight.  My thinking:  if you're stupid enough to not wear a helmet, you shouldn't be on the roads anyway, if you get what I mean.

DARWIN DARWIN DARWIN

[mightymouse]

True story: My brother drilled a Chevette in the B-plr with his 1100F Honda...

rolled the car, driver was ejected from passenger window, the car rolled over,

crushed the driver. My brother cleared the handlebars and roof line just before

impact, skipped down the road on his helmet, and suffered only a broken arm.

No helmet, no f*cking brain...God's natural selection process in effect.

[sciguy_0504]

Actually, you can't re-new your registration without valid insurance. You have to provide the name of the insurance co., the policy number, the effective date, the expiration date, and the mileage on the vehicle. So yes, it is enforced.

Then, how come so many people seem to be driving without insurance? Something seems off.

[sciguy_0504]

True story: My brother drilled a Chevette in the B-plr with his 1100F Honda...

rolled the car, driver was ejected from passenger window, the car rolled over,

crushed the driver. My brother cleared the handlebars and roof line just before

impact, skipped down the road on his helmet, and suffered only a broken arm.

No helmet, no f*cking brain...God's natural selection process in effect.

Just yesterday a motorcycle crashed into the side of a minivan in my area, flipping it over and causing it to explode. A family was killed but I forget if the biker lived.

[roopull]

Adults should be able to put their lives at risk so long as they're not risking anyone else's rights. Aside from the dolt with the smashed head, who was the victim of his not wearing a helmet?

Helmet laws are just one more way for folks to mandate their morals to others.

[the_yellow_dart]

Hey, in the US, where you pay for your own health care, do whatever you want.... what does the country care? Why would they bother making laws?

Making helmet laws makes a little more sense in Canada, because it actually costs the government money when these idiots hurt themselves.

[pow]

Adults should be able to put their lives at risk so long as they're not risking anyone else's rights.  Aside from the dolt with the smashed head, who was the victim of his not wearing a helmet? 

Friends and family.

[ShadowDog]

if you are in an accident and not wearing a helmet, but you get hospitalized for serious injury, your insurance payout should be capped at a maximum amount equivalent to what you would have needed for treatment had you wore a helmet.  i.e. payout for some scrapes vs. three weeks in a coma and tons of therapy afterwards.

Trying to set value for how much expected injury could occur in an accident if wearing a helmet has far too many variables. Even a person wearing a helmet can go into major rehabilitation.

I'd figure it's just easier to mandate helmets. We have mandates for seat belts and helmets in Canada, you don't hear too many people bitching and moaning about civil rights. Things have been this way for decades with no escalating chaos of Big Brother antics by the government. Quite frankly, the simple seat belt and helmet laws are there so we can keep the stupid people alive. Maybe we should rethink this whole issue to reduce the increasing level of Darwin Award nominees.

[Cory Wolfe]

Heh... yeah... let the stupid people kill themselves...

[Hudson]

The helmet law was repealed in PA just recently, and I say good. I can't stand laws that try to protect me from myself. It's called freedom, we seem to forget what that means a bit more each year.

I really hate to correct you, but the helmet law in Pennsylvania was not repealed, it was revised. There is still a helmet law in Pennsylvania. In order to ride a motorcycle in Pennsylvania without a helmet, you must a) be over 21 years of age, b) have no less than 2 years experience riding a motorcycle, and c) have a motorcycle rider training course under your belt.

The subject of this particular thread, Ben Rothlesberger, is 24 but does not (as far as the report from KDKA news stated) have a motorcycle drivers license which seems to conclude that b) and c) were not met. Not only was he stupidly (in my opinion) riding a motorcycle without a helmet, he seems to have been doing it illegally.

And these laws that "try to protect me from myself" also protect everyone else from you. A point that was made on the radio yesterday (discussing this very debate) was that if you and I have an accident where I am not at fault and you, by not wearing a seatbelt or helmet, die, I have to live with the guilt that an accident in which I was involved in killed a person.

Driving is a prviledge and not a right. Certain criteria should be met. Cars/motorcycles should meet certain safety and emissions levels. Drivers/riders should be trained to a certain level before being given a license. And drivers/riders should be required to protect themselves from accidents to prevent those drivers/riders from being a burden on my taxes and/or my insurance premiums.

I'm all for freedom and fewer laws. But when it comes to holding people to a certain level of basic common sense, some laws are necessary. Too many people do not understand basic principles of physics which cannot be overcome by having their "freedom." Seatbelt use and helmet use should be just as mandatory as driving on the proper side of the road, obeying speed limits, and stopping at red lights and stop signs.

If we're arguing about what freedom means, there are many other avenues that should be discussed well before we get to choosing whether or not a motorcyclist should wear his/her helmet.

Edited June 14, 2006 by Hudson

[andretti]

There is an important piece of information that is not understood here.

There is no question that IF you get into an accident on a motorcycle you have a somewhat better chance of surviving and or having reduced injuries if you are wearing a helmet. The point that is not known is that there is a higher chance you will get into an collision if you ARE wearing a helmet. (based on nationial insurance statistics) This is due to some known and perhaps not known phenomena. One is a significantly reduced field of vision and eliminated peripheral vision.

It is far better to do everything possible to avoid the collision than to improve your ability to survive, at the expense of increasing your chance of getting into one.

Interesting question for you helmet proponents - If helmets are so darn good why are they forbidden to be worn in cars? In most states it is illegal to wear a crash helmet while driving an enclosed vehicle.

Edited June 14, 2006 by andretti

[Drew Dowdell]

One is a significantly reduced field of vision and eliminated peripheral vision.

A properly fitted helmet should do neither.

[Satty]

Its illegal to wear a helmet while driving a car? I dont rember seeing that in the Rules of the Road. I'm sure that if you were wearing one a cop could interpret loose wording of a statute to ticket you, but I doubt there is any specific law that bars wearing a helmet while driving.

[andretti]

A properly fitted helmet should do neither.

Your obvious ignorance shows you aren't a rider.

[Drew Dowdell]

Your obvious ignorance shows you aren't a rider.

I have no issues with my vision while wearing my helmet thanks....

There are plenty of helmets out there that won't affect vision.... unfortunately they might not match your bike or your hot leather jacket.... and god knows we can't have a clashing bike/helmet color combo.....

edit: Oh yeah, been a rider since I was about 12 <off road back then of course>, and yes I've had ill-fitting helmets before, but I know now what to look for in a properly fitting helmet.

Edited June 14, 2006 by Oldsmoboi