GM Keynote @ CES 2022 is Virtual, yet we see the Chevrolet Truck and SUV to lead their BEV Portfolio! :Comments

[G. David Felt]

GM CEO and Keynote presenter Mary Barra outlined the wave of change that is coming as society moves towards mass adoption of electric vehicles and how GM has transitioned from a basic automaker to a platform innovator, providing key Electric technology across a wide platform of uses more than just automobiles.

Per GMs global chief marketing officer, Deborah Wahl, and I quote:

“Technology driven by purpose will change the world,” “GM is redefining how people and goods are moved. Our commitment to a vision of a world with zero crashes, zero emissions and zero congestion has positioned us to lead. As we implement our growth strategy, we have an opportunity and, frankly, an obligation to create a better future for generations to come. That’s the Ultium Effect.”

One can check out GMs Exhibit Zero here: Countdown Until GM Exhibit Zero: A Virtual Experience

Marry discussed how the "Ultium Effect" has allowed GM to take from idea to production in what has been considered some of the fastest changes in the auto industry. This Ultium Effect underpins the GMC Hummer EV Truck and Brightdrop EV600 both in delivery to customers now as production ramps up.

This Ultium platform will also underpin the soon to be released Cadillac LYRIQ, Chevrolet Silverado and Equinox EVs.

Mary also shared the Conceptual Future of Cadillac that covers from the Innerspace, a two-passenger autonomous auto, to their Social Space a take on autonomous luxury van and the Personal Space, a single passenger hover craft that gets you above the ground congestion. Full inside and outside images can be viewed here for all of the Cadillac Concept Portfolio: Cadillac Pressroom - United States - Photos

Yet while the Keynote touched on many things from SuperCruise to GMs global plans for auto's around the world was a focus on Chevrolet BEV portfolio for everyone. By 2025 the estimate is to have the following:

• Silverado EV
• Equinox EV
• Blazer EV
• These are in addition to the Bolt EV and EUV

The Silverado EV is a reimagined full-size pickup developed on the Ultium Platform in a First edition launch version RST featuring the following:

• 400-mile range battery pack
  • 350kW fast charging standard
• 664 hp / 780 lb-ft of torque for the RST model with a 0 to 60 of 4.5 seconds
• 10,000 pounds maximum trailering, 1,300 lbs of payload with Tow/Haul mode with integrated trailering brake control and hitch guidance
• 10.2 kW of offboard power
• Four-wheel steering
• Fixed glass roof
• Multi-Flex Midgate
• Load floor of up to 10ft 10 inches when combined using the Multi-Flex Midgate
• 17-inch Diagonal LCD freeform infotainment screen
• Over air updates and latest software features as they are released from GM
• Trailering capable SuperCruise
• Independent front and rear suspension with automatic adaptive air suspension allowing the vehicle to be raised or lowered up to 2 inches.

One of the cool parts that many Cheverolet customers loved about the legacy Avalanche truck is the return of a mid-gate that has been updated to match the needs of the 21st century.

This along with a more enhanced flexible rear seat.

Chevrolet is focusing on building best in class interior into their BEVs.

Over all this is a truck designed from the ground up to lead the BEV revolution. More images can be viewed at the following media web site: Chevrolet Pressroom - United States - Images

One of the most wondered thoughts was how Chevrolet would respond to the huge FRUNK that Ford introduced with their F150 Lighting and to that GMs answer is as follows:

While no sizing has been released yet, the press release did say this about the frunk: The eTrunk – a lockable, weatherproof compartment in the front of the vehicle – provides enough space to fit a large hard side suitcase and a multitude of accessory options for both fleet and retail customers to load gear based on the unique needs of the customer.

 

Pricing is another area that many have wondered about and while the First Edition RST Silverado EV truck will debut loaded at an MSRP of $105,000, Chevrolet will offer a complete portfolio of trucks with the Base WT or Work Truck starting at $39,900 + DFC or destination Freight Charge of $1,695. Customers will then find a complete portfolio of Trail Boss, Z71, LT, LTE and more with starting price points of $50,000, $60,000, $70,000, $80,000 and $90,000 allowing customers to choose the truck to meet their capability and pricing needs.

Videos released while animations show the planned options for the WT truck.

 Full images and additional options for the WT truck can be viewed here: Chevrolet Pressroom - United States - Images

Many here on Cheers and Gears has stated that these high-priced trucks ignore the folks that cannot afford high 5 to 6 figure autos and GM answer is the Equinox EV. Arriving Fall 2023 with a starting MSRP of $30,000, the Equinox will be available from the start in both a fleet and retail version that include the LT and RS trims based on the Ultium Platform providing an affordable EV option to the global customer.

More details will come out closer to launch.

 

GM at CES 2022: Experience The Ultium Effect 

Cadillac Introduces InnerSpace Autonomous Concept at CES 2022

The Pickup Reimagined: Introducing the 2024 All-Electric Chevrolet Silverado

Chevrolet Previews Equinox EV

View full article

[Robert Hall]

I do like the slim front lighting trend, after years of excess cluster bloat.

[Drew Dowdell]

So the Silverado EV shares no parts with the gas Silverado and has a mid-gate, but they're insisting on calling it the Silverado. The depths of the stupidity at GM never cease to amaze me.  It actually has fewer shared parts than the Avalanche/Silverado did back in 2013.

But, it's got SuperCruise on the RST and and more tow rating than I need.... and I even love the color.

Whatever, I'll buy NOS Avalanche badges and rebadge it myself.

 

[Drew Dowdell]

Reservation submitted and paid for.

[Drew Dowdell]

18 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Reservation submitted and paid for.

Why laughing @ccap41

[ccap41]

Drew has $100 he can get back at anytime 

[Drew Dowdell]

31 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Drew has $100 he can get back at anytime 

And a place in line in the meantime. I don’t expect to take delivery for at least 24 months, probably even longer.

I’m a patient man. I waited how long to buy the Avalanche I have now?

[regfootball]

i only think this is significant from the standpoint of they are inferring the Blazer and Equinox will be comparably priced vehicles that exist in mainstream segments already.   the Equinox and blazer currently round out popular segments.  the compact and mid size SUV are market staples.  So it finally shows, to me at least (unless this is vaporware) that actual customers can get a desirable EV in a desirable segment that presumably isn't going to have an EV price penalty.

The Lyriq, Hummer are just PR vehicles.  the Silverado will also have a crazy high price and isn't intended to cut into Chevy's current Silverado market.

The Bolt is a toy, too small for what most people want.

Room, space, styling and utility wise, the Blazer and Equinox EV seem to infer they are simply EV versions of normal desirable cars in desirable segments with looks consistent of what is popular in the market.  No goofy ass styling like a VW ID4 or Nissan Leaf, etc.

So hopefully a start to providing real alternatives to real mass segments, not just PR cars anymore hopefully. And let consumers decide if it is for them of not.

Still doesn't get them off the hook from keeping their gas cars fresh.  

Edited January 5, 2022 by regfootball

[regfootball]

finally....

some bench seats for making out

[Drew Dowdell]

12 minutes ago, regfootball said:

the Silverado will also have a crazy high price and isn't intended to cut into Chevy's current Silverado market

Starting at $39k for the WT model. Only the loaded RST will crest $100k. Most of the consumer models will be $75k-$85k like the Lightning.

[surreal1272]

29 minutes ago, regfootball said:

The Lyriq, Hummer are just PR vehicles.

The Hummer? Yes. The Lyriq? No. The Lyriq starts at $60K and is a Caddy so that price is actually pretty damn good, if you ask me. The $100K GMC, though, clearly is. 

[G. David Felt]

Mary Posted a Bullet point list of her KeyNote address on LinkedIn.

(9) A Bold and Purposeful Showing at CES | LinkedIn

[smk4565]

Avalanche fans will be happy with that Silverado Electric.  But the $105k launch edition and even some of the other trims seem too expensive compared to a V8 gas Silverado LT that is like $50k.

The Equinox EV looks ugly, but if they can pull off a $30k starting price then that is a huge win.

[surreal1272]

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Avalanche fans will be happy with that Silverado Electric.  But the $105k launch edition and even some of the other trims seem too expensive compared to a V8 gas Silverado LT that is like $50k.

The Equinox EV looks ugly, but if they can pull off a $30k starting price then that is a huge win.

Stop it, stop it, stop it with the apples to oranges comparisons. They are even close to being equipped the same plus the EV has a ton more power than a standard V8 Silverado. Furthermore, there are lower trim models (staring at $39K) that will be I  that mix as well. Oh and I would pay $100K for the Chevy over that jellybean looking excuse of a monstrosity known as the EQS and it sure as hell looks better and is more capable than the fugly Cybertruck at ANY price point. 
 

Oh and the Equinox looks better than any Benz CUV under $50K. 
 

Nice job on yet another round of domestic bashing though. 

[smk4565]

Let's see if these $40k EV Silverado's or F150 Lightnings really exist.  Much like the $35,000 Tesla Model 3 that never happened, and $44,990 is the cheapest Model 3 you can get now.  Maybe GM and Ford will deliver on that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they only build the top trim versions for years and by the time they get to the low trim, it is a lot more than originally promised.

[surreal1272]

24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Let's see if these $40k EV Silverado's or F150 Lightnings really exist.  Much like the $35,000 Tesla Model 3 that never happened, and $44,990 is the cheapest Model 3 you can get now.  Maybe GM and Ford will deliver on that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they only build the top trim versions for years and by the time they get to the low trim, it is a lot more than originally promised.

They stand a better chance of making that happen than Tesla and their chances are better than Daimlers chances of putting out an EV that doesn’t look like a used VW CC on the outside (wink wink EQS). Besides, no one expects the base price anyway, much like with every ICE vehicle. Most importantly here, at least GM and Ford are releasing vehicles that are actually in demand and have sell like hotcakes (pick ups and CUVs) instead of a $100K jellybean sedan that only Stevie Wonder will want. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

45 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

They stand a better chance of making that happen than Tesla and their chances are better than Daimlers chances of putting out an EV that doesn’t look like a used VW CC on the outside (wink wink EQS). Besides, no one expects the base price anyway, much like with every ICE vehicle. Most importantly here, at least GM and Ford are releasing vehicles that are actually in demand and have sell like hotcakes (pick ups and CUVs) instead of a $100K jellybean sedan that only Stevie Wonder will want. 

All EV's are going to look like the EQS or be SUV's with sloped rear ends in the crossover coupe vein due to aero.   Mercedes is just ahead of the curve, I don't like how the EQS looks, but it has a .20 cD, and that EQXX concept which looks better has a .18 cD.  And more importantly that car is 3,800 lbs with 620 mile range.  These EV's are stupid heavy, so either they need a battery breakthrough that significantly cuts weight or crazy aerodynamics to get range so they don't need a huge battery.  

[surreal1272]

26 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

All EV's are going to look like the EQS

I’m going to call 100% BS because most automakers have eyes. 

28 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

SUV's with sloped rear ends in the crossover coupe vein due to aero

The Lyriq has a slope but it is nowhere near “coupe” like so that’s not a correct assessment either. 

[surreal1272]

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

be SUV's with sloped rear ends in the crossover coupe vein due to aero.

I guess Rivian and GMC didn’t get that message. Neither of their EVs have any kind of coupe like slope. You are only making that a point of emphasis because that is what Daimler wants to do. 

[ccap41]

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Let's see if these $40k EV Silverado's or F150 Lightnings really exist.  Much like the $35,000 Tesla Model 3 that never happened, and $44,990 is the cheapest Model 3 you can get now.  Maybe GM and Ford will deliver on that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they only build the top trim versions for years and by the time they get to the low trim, it is a lot more than originally promised.

It likely all depends on what the pre-orders are but I'm sure there are work trucks preordered at the starting price. It's like looking for a truly base model truck now. They're made but very few buy them so they're kind of unicorns.

I would put money on them producing the Pro and selling for the MSRP. 

11 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Daimlers chances of putting out an EV that doesn’t look like a used VW CC on the outside (wink wink EQS).

Hey now, don't do the CC dirty like that. The CC is/was a very attractive vehicle. The poor mans A7. 

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

All EV's are going to look like the EQS or be SUV's with sloped rear ends in the crossover coupe vein due to aero.

Did you miss the EQXX? Lower drag coefficient than the EQSh!t.

 

[surreal1272]

35 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Hey now, don't do the CC dirty like that. The CC is/was a very attractive vehicle. The poor mans A7. 

Don't get it twisted. I'm not VW fan but yes, the CC was a nice looking ride. However, It was more about the "best or nothing" building a $100K+ jellybean version of a $30K VW lol.

35 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Did you miss the EQXX? Lower drag coefficient than the EQSh!t.

He actually did mention that in the same sentence.

 

"and that EQXX concept which looks better has a .18 cD. "

 

Oh and I wouldn't get my hopes up on the production model looking like that concept. That rear end will never pass crash standards here.

Edited January 6, 2022 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

34 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It likely all depends on what the pre-orders are but I'm sure there are work trucks preordered at the starting price. It's like looking for a truly base model truck now. They're made but very few buy them so they're kind of unicorns.

I would put money on them producing the Pro and selling for the MSRP. 

Hey now, don't do the CC dirty like that. The CC is/was a very attractive vehicle. The poor mans A7. 

Did you miss the EQXX? Lower drag coefficient than the EQSh!t.

 

I saw the EQXX, I like that it weighs 3800 lbs, not 5,000 and I like the body shape.  Not really a fan of the front end, it needs more classic Mercedes look, but it’s a concept so it will change.  I imagine this is the basis for the C-class level EV.

[smk4565]

Also the EV Blazer better be an off roader we like the 4Runner, Wrangler, Bronco, etc.  Maybe not a removable roof, but off road focus, which is what they should have done the last time rather than another front drive 4-cylinder crossover.  

[Robert Hall]

23 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Also the EV Blazer better be an off roader we like the 4Runner, Wrangler, Bronco, etc.  Maybe not a removable roof, but off road focus, which is what they should have done the last time rather than another front drive 4-cylinder crossover.  

I doubt they will do anything like that, I assume it will be just another generic CUV like the current ICE Blazer.

[ccap41]

46 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

He actually did mention that in the same sentence.

I know, but, like, why even type that sentence out to immediately mention a non-jellybean possible future vehicle with a better aerodynamic drag coefficient? 

It was more a knock on, 'why did you just say what you said to immediately contradict yourself?' 

41 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Also the EV Blazer better be an off roader we like the 4Runner, Wrangler, Bronco, etc.  Maybe not a removable roof, but off road focus, which is what they should have done the last time rather than another front drive 4-cylinder crossover.  

They could have "easily" made it a front-drive 4-cylinder crossover with some off-road chops. They could have done a similar job to the Bronco Sport/Cherokee Trailhawk. They didn't though and, at this point, I don't think it's necessary just because of the "Blazer" name. 

[surreal1272]

46 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Also the EV Blazer better be an off roader we like the 4Runner, Wrangler, Bronco, etc.  Maybe not a removable roof, but off road focus, which is what they should have done the last time rather than another front drive 4-cylinder crossover.  

That also comes with AWD and a V6 as an option and doesn't NEED to be any of that since they have already committed to it being a CUV EV. Now, they could surprise everyone and do just that but for now, that does not appear to be the case.

Edited January 6, 2022 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

Also, why? It isn't like Mercedes is making everything off-roady because they make the G Wagen or they're making everything track-oriented because there's a GLE Coupe AMG,

[surreal1272]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Also, why? It isn't like Mercedes is making everything off-roady because they make the G Wagen or they're making everything track-oriented because there's a GLE Coupe AMG,

Because the German car fan has to find any excuse to $h! on domestics, that's why. 

[G. David Felt]

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

All EV's are going to look like the EQS or be SUV's with sloped rear ends in the crossover coupe vein due to aero.   Mercedes is just ahead of the curve, I don't like how the EQS looks, but it has a .20 cD, and that EQXX concept which looks better has a .18 cD.  And more importantly that car is 3,800 lbs with 620 mile range.  These EV's are stupid heavy, so either they need a battery breakthrough that significantly cuts weight or crazy aerodynamics to get range so they don't need a huge battery.  

WRONG WRONG WRONG, Just look at the FACTS!

Tesla is #1 Globally for EV sales, FORD is #2 North America for EV sales and I expect that to change as Ford starts selling the Mach-e, Transit-e and F-150 Lighting globally by the end of 2022.

Yet here are the facts per the monitoring web site: EV-Volumes - The Electric Vehicle World Sales Database

QUOTE:

Tesla leads global EV sales with 386 000 units (all BEV) delivered during H1, followed by the Volkswagen Group with 332 000 units, thereof 172 700 BEVs and 159 400 PHEVs. GM comes in 3rd with 227 000 units (221k were BEV), including over 180k of Mini-EVs from their SGMW joint venture in China.

NO WHERE is Mercedes-Benz mentioned, they are not even a blimp on the statistics which speaks VOLUMES about their BEV strategy.

If you look at just Europe, Mercedes has FAILED as #1 is Tesla, #2 is BMW and #3 is Renault.

Seems your love of a singular German Company is they are failing to show up to compete.

The Global Electric Vehicle Market In 2022 – Virta

This pretty much shows where Mercedes is leading and that is in PHEV, not BEV. They only lead GM due to their PHEV sales.

GLOBAL EV SALES DATA | WORLD EV SALES HISTORY | WattEV2Buy

Everywhere I look, Mercedes is nowhere near the top in leading the auto industry.

global EV sales Archives | CleanTechnica

[balthazar]

If you take note; the current gen Silverado W/T & Custom are the only trims you can get a regular cab/ 8-ft box… because commercial buyers often need them there. Watch the sales drop there due to only offering a 5.5’ bed… gonna be a non-starter there for sure for many.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

If you take note; the current gen Silverado W/T & Custom are the only trims you can get a regular cab/ 8-ft box… because commercial buyers often need them there. Watch the sales drop there due to only offering a 5.5’ bed… gonna be a non-starter there for sure for many.

I get that an 8ft bed is needed in some areas of commercial, but I honestly question the need for 8ft beds by all commercial customers. As one that lives close to our massive lite rail construction and seeing 100's of the white Skanska construction Chevrolet trucks and yes, they all have 8ft beds and yet the MAJORITY of them rarely have anything in them.

Welcome to Skanska | www.skanska.com

In fact the bulk of them have a 2ft by bed width tool box and usually some diesel fuel tank in the back leaving only about 4ft of space and still nothing really in them as they drive around the massive construction site along I5 here.

They are also all crewcab trucks that are usually more filled with people than hauling stuff, as such, I am willing to bet GM did their research in talking to the commercial sector in this decision to only have a 5 1/2 foot bed. Ford also does not have an 8ft bed and yet the first 1 1/2 years of commercial production are sold out and they increased production for 2022 from the original 75,000 units to 150,000 units so I do not see an 8ft bed option not there at the start as a block to selling the trucks to the commercial sector.

I bet by 2025 as a 2026 model year, we will see bed options show up. Already Rivian has test mules of their truck with an 8ft bed.

[G. David Felt]

@Drew Dowdell Congratulations, seems the first edition first year of production sold out in 12 minutes.

New GM Electric Silverado Sells Out in 12 Minutes - Bloomberg

Interview of Mary Barra with Bloomberg where she states this.

Silverado EV (chevrolet.com)

More images, videos and details on this site now.

[Drew Dowdell]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

If you take note; the current gen Silverado W/T & Custom are the only trims you can get a regular cab/ 8-ft box… because commercial buyers often need them there. Watch the sales drop there due to only offering a 5.5’ bed… gonna be a non-starter there for sure for many.

It's got an 8-foot bed just like my Avalanche does. put the rear seats down and open the mid-gate. 

I'm on multiple Avalanche forums/Facebook groups and tradesman drive Avalanches all the time..., there just aren't as many of them because the Avalanche was sold as a more premium/lux vehicle than a work vehicle.  The big lament on the forums about the Silverado EV is the lack of saddle bags. 

9 minutes ago, David said:

@Drew Dowdell Congratulations, seems the first edition first year of production sold out in 12 minutes.

New GM Electric Silverado Sells Out in 12 Minutes - Bloomberg

Interview of Mary Barra with Bloomberg where she states this.

Silverado EV (chevrolet.com)

More images, videos and details on this site now.

I didn't get a First Edition... too much stuff that I didn't want.  All I want is extended range and SuperCruise.  No need for 4-wheel steering or the Multi-pro tailgate. 

[G. David Felt]

Some of the first posts of the truck by other media outlets.

After looking at this with a close up of the dash, this is the BEST Looking Silverado in a long time to me IMHO. The Dash I am loving.

Edmonds did a decent comparison of the Silverado EV to F-150 Lighting.

 

[G. David Felt]

Interesting comparison of the New Silverado EV to the past Avalanche.

 

[smk4565]

6 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Also, why? It isn't like Mercedes is making everything off-roady because they make the G Wagen or they're making everything track-oriented because there's a GLE Coupe AMG,

Chevy makes zero off road SUVs, Mercedes at least makes one.

The Wrangler sold 204,610 units in 2021, add in another 89,712 Gladiators, increases of 2% and 16% respectively.  And the Wrangler outsold all GM vehicles except the Silverado and Sierra.

The Blazer in 2021 sold 70,325 down 26%.  

Toyota 4Runner sold 129,052, up 13% (for a vehicle with a last major redesign in 2010)

Ford sold 8,287 Broncos in November, given a full year I'd assume they will be hitting 100k a year, they sold over 101k Bronco Sports already this year.

GM missed the mark on the Blazer.

[G. David Felt]

22 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Chevy makes zero off road SUVs, Mercedes at least makes one.

The Wrangler sold 204,610 units in 2021, add in another 89,712 Gladiators, increases of 2% and 16% respectively.  And the Wrangler outsold all GM vehicles except the Silverado and Sierra.

The Blazer in 2021 sold 70,325 down 26%.  

Toyota 4Runner sold 129,052, up 13% (for a vehicle with a last major redesign in 2010)

Ford sold 8,287 Broncos in November, given a full year I'd assume they will be hitting 100k a year, they sold over 101k Bronco Sports already this year.

GM missed the mark on the Blazer.

GM makes the Tahoe and Suburban Z71. That is a pretty strong off road SUV!

You can also get the off-road High-Country package on the Traverse in AWD.

The Blazer comes with 5 different drive modes, get AWD and you get additional includes Off-road, sand, snow, mud.

These are the same by the equal GMC labels also. So how do you say they have zero off road SUV?

[surreal1272]

45 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Chevy makes zero off road SUVs, Mercedes at least makes one.

The Wrangler sold 204,610 units in 2021, add in another 89,712 Gladiators, increases of 2% and 16% respectively.  And the Wrangler outsold all GM vehicles except the Silverado and Sierra.

The Blazer in 2021 sold 70,325 down 26%.  

Toyota 4Runner sold 129,052, up 13% (for a vehicle with a last major redesign in 2010)

Ford sold 8,287 Broncos in November, given a full year I'd assume they will be hitting 100k a year, they sold over 101k Bronco Sports already this year.

GM missed the mark on the Blazer.

Meanwhile GM makes  and sells several off road pick ups while Benz has ZERO pick ups for being with. And they sell plenty of them. 

 

And big whoop! Benz makes one true off road SUV (that 99.999% of their never take off road). It's also a low volume seller but hey, numbers only count when they work in your favor right?  

 

BTW, as good as the 4Runner is, it is outsold by every other CUV Toyota makes so not really convincing argument. 

 

One last thing. Blazer sales are down for obvious reasons that you should already be aware of. It's the same reason why most sales figures are down.

12 minutes ago, David said:

The Blazer comes with 5 different drive modes, get AWD and you get additional includes Off-road, sand, snow, mud.

Most CUVs have that but I will agree with SMK, that GM messed up calling it a Blazer (throw in the Trailblazer for good measure). However, they sell plenty of them still.

Edited January 6, 2022 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, David said:

GM makes the Tahoe and Suburban Z71. That is a pretty strong off road SUV!

You can also get the off-road High-Country package on the Traverse in AWD.

The Blazer comes with 5 different drive modes, get AWD and you get additional includes Off-road, sand, snow, mud.

These are the same by the equal GMC labels also. So how do you say they have zero off road SUV?

Which of those beats a Wrangler or Bronco off road?

[surreal1272]

40 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Which of those beats a Wrangler or Bronco off road?

Who freakin cares? You keep finding ways to take a $h! on it when you’re the only one who seems to care. Again, they have other off road vehicles in the form of the mid-size and full size pick ups. So, based on your “Benz has an off-road SUV” logic, let me ask you this. Which Benz pick up beats those off road?

Edited January 7, 2022 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Which of those beats a Wrangler or Bronco off road?

Hello Biff, when did you ever ask for a direct comparison of Apple to Apple. You stated:

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Chevy makes zero off road SUVs, Mercedes at least makes one.

Then you went into models, the statement is clear, no off road SUVs. WRONG AGAIN BIFF!

Plus where is Mercedes Best or Nothing Truck, off-road Truck???????

 

RIGHT...............................  NOTHING!

[smk4565]

Mercedes isn't a pick up truck maker.  They make cars for plenty of other segments and beat their competitors in most of those segments.

GM is a direct competitor to Toyota, Ford and Stellantis.  I don't really care if they make the Blazer another Camaro looking SUV to duke it out with the Toyota Venza and soon to be discontinued Ford Edge or an off roader as I am not buying one either way.  But if I saw Jeep Wrangler sales outselling every vehicle I make except for a full size pick up, and Jeep getting $40-60k for them too, I'd want a piece of that market rather than trying to out build Toyota on a front drive, mid-size, 2 row crossover which is a losing battle for a smaller market segment.

[oldshurst442]

If Im to be answering SMK's question about what General Motors SUV/CUV and pick up trucks are capable off roading vehicles, Id be saying that historically, General Motors hasnt really engineered segment busting off roading vehicles.  For the military, yes.  And currently they have a huge military contract to supply troop vehicles for the military that seem to have awesome off roading chops.  Colorado pick-up truck based. And they are working on a Silverado truck based model too.  And most radically speaking, these will also be battery electric.

But to return to the question, nothing in history that GM has made over the years that captures awards for off roading quite as often as a Jeep.  There were a handful over the years though. But currently nothing in the civilian market.

But does it matter that GM has no Wrangler or Bronco competitor?

Ill repeat, GM  hasnt quite offered a Wrangler competitor in its history...   The K5 Blazer was a response to the original Bronco which was a response to the Wrangler, but the K5 Blazer was fullsized. The Bronco failed in the market place and Ford went with a full sized Bronco thereafter to compete with the fullsized Blazer.  The small Blazer/GMC Jimmy was a competitor to the Jeep Cherokee. To which Ford introduced the Bronco II to compete with both the Jeep and the GM twins to which later became the Explorer.    But nothing serious offroading for GM.   Those became lukewarm soccer mom SUVs later on and then transformed into full time soccer mom SUVs because the public decided for them to become that. Same with Ford's SUVs.   

In the 2000s, with the rights to Hummer, GM came close to offering a real Wrangler competitor, but we all know what happened with that...

Ill repeat, did GM miss out on anything?

Not really.

The Nissan Pathfinder, which was Nissan's answer to the Hilux based 4Runner, which was a capable off roader became a soccer mom CUV.  Nissan introduced the Xterra to compensate for the Pathfinder's new found vocation with the soccer moms but soccer moms also bought the XTERRA so Nissan ended up nixing it. 

Toyota brought back the FJ Cruiser. A little bit bigger than the original. Which was a reversed engineered military Jeep... But the FJ Cruiser failed in the market place. It was an awesome off roader, but it failed in the market place...

GM did own Suzuki, and Suzuki did build decent off roader SUVs. Yeah, they were of the small variety, they were cool little off roaders, but, those little off roaders never really became anything big here in North America.  Proving my point that GM, then and now, havent really missed out on anything.  

We could talk about Subarus, but we could also talk about AMC Eagles as well.  Offroading Subaru Outbacks are as popular as those AMC Eagles were.  Outbacks and the other AWD Subaru CUVs are just being driven by folk that supposedly need AWD to drive on the wintery snow to get to their Costco destination. 

The only thing GM shoulda made was a competitor to the Raptor.  It should not have waited for Dodge to build the TRX...   

Ill answer the other question tho before SMK does.   Im surprised that he did answer it without mentioning the G500...    (Yeah, he answered as I was typing and before I got my post in)

Even though 99.9% of G500 buyers dont take their rides off road, the G500 is a purpose built, military troop transport especially made for off roading.  If Im not mistaken, its a more rugged, better performing off roading machine than the Wrangler is.   Im surprised  SMK didnt proudly tell us that....

Edited January 7, 2022 by oldshurst442

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Chevy makes zero off road SUVs, Mercedes at least makes one.

The Wrangler sold 204,610 units in 2021, add in another 89,712 Gladiators, increases of 2% and 16% respectively.  And the Wrangler outsold all GM vehicles except the Silverado and Sierra.

The Blazer in 2021 sold 70,325 down 26%.  

Toyota 4Runner sold 129,052, up 13% (for a vehicle with a last major redesign in 2010)

Ford sold 8,287 Broncos in November, given a full year I'd assume they will be hitting 100k a year, they sold over 101k Bronco Sports already this year.

GM missed the mark on the Blazer.

Well, I can't really disagree that they should have at least ONE off-road-oriented SUV. There's always good mark-ups on the top end ones, like a Denali or ZR2. 

[ccap41]

14 hours ago, David said:

GM makes the Tahoe and Suburban Z71. That is a pretty strong off road SUV!

You can also get the off-road High-Country package on the Traverse in AWD.

The Blazer comes with 5 different drive modes, get AWD and you get additional includes Off-road, sand, snow, mud.

These are the same by the equal GMC labels also. So how do you say they have zero off road SUV?

All of those are a joke compared to anything he mentioned, except the Bronco Sport. 

The Blazer has LESS ground clearance than a Lincoln Corsair.

Is the Corsair an off-roader because it has different drive modes? 

[surreal1272]

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes isn't a pick up truck maker.

No $h! Sherlock . It sure wasn't for the lack of trying though was it? The rest of your post doesn't even matter because it's just more pom pom waving from the resident Daimler fan.

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

2 row crossover which is a losing battle for a smaller market segment.

What are you talking about? Did you ignore the part where the Blazer's down year was directly because of the chip shortage or do you just like making up stuff as you go?

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

and soon to be discontinued Ford Edge

Did you actually READ why it's being discontinued? It's not because of sales.

https://carbuzz.com/news/ford-edge-and-lincoln-nautilus-are-dead-after-2023

 

Stop posting half truths.

[surreal1272]

21 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

All of those are a joke compared to anything he mentioned, except the Bronco Sport. 

Are you sure about that? Now, I'm not saying that the Tahoe Z71 is a "Jeep killer" but apparently it's also not slouch off road.

 

One quote from it,

"As the Tahoe slowly made its way past the first obstacles, I learned to trust in the 34.9-degree approach angle that comes as a result of the Z71's trim-specific front bumper, realizing the machine could climb higher step-ups than I'd ever imagined. (For context, the most capable Ford Bronco Sport has a 30.4-dgree approach angle, and a Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro comes in at 33.0 degrees.)"

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/chevrolet-tahoe-z71-road-trip-review/

 

Oh and why has no one mentioned the fact that the Hummer EV/SUV is coming out as well. Is SMK going to tell me that it is not an off road SUV?

[Robert Hall]

The Hummer EV sounds like it's pretty capable off road, though it's massive size and weight would be a hindrance, IMO. 

[ccap41]

18 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Are you sure about that? Now, I'm not saying that the Tahoe Z71 is a "Jeep killer" but apparently it's also not slouch off road.

 

One quote from it,

"As the Tahoe slowly made its way past the first obstacles, I learned to trust in the 34.9-degree approach angle that comes as a result of the Z71's trim-specific front bumper, realizing the machine could climb higher step-ups than I'd ever imagined. (For context, the most capable Ford Bronco Sport has a 30.4-dgree approach angle, and a Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro comes in at 33.0 degrees.)"

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/chevrolet-tahoe-z71-road-trip-review/

 

Oh and why has no one mentioned the fact that the Hummer EV/SUV is coming out as well. Is SMK going to tell me that it is not an off road SUV?

Yes, I'm still confident in my comment that this is not a true off-roader, just like an FX4 Ford is not. It certainly adds some additional off-road ability. These types of vehicles are the perfect vehicle for those who're not into off-roading their vehicle as a hobby but will use it around their home in mud/hills, take their toys to off-road parks, and are into outdoorsy things but not necessarily into off-roading the vehicle itself. This is just my opinion on the Z71, FX4, and I believe the Rebel is also in this category.  

[balthazar]

19 hours ago, David said:

I get that an 8ft bed is needed in some areas of commercial, but I honestly question the need for 8ft beds by all commercial customers.

Yet... they sell.  6.5' beds are workable, but on the edge.  That final foot off (5.5') is not made for a LOT of commercial work.  Why a pickup should 'be fine' with smaller & smaller beds, when commercial vehicles include vans that are large and go up from there, makes little sense to me;  more room for more materials & equipment is moving forward, not less.

RE the Midgate extending the bed to 8-ft; that's fine for homeowners / occasional use. It's far less than ideal for contractors / commercial work, who seldom have the rear seat totally empty to enable spontaneous Midgate-dropping.  If you're picking up a dozen sheets of plywood for a job... where are your tools going to be for installation of such?

I understand & accept that most pickup are not used commercially, and the 5.5' bed is the majority (I take note on the road)... what I'm advocating for is the same level of choice going forward- independent cab/beds with a multitude of configurations to cater to the steady customer base. One single crew cab / short box isn't going to do that.

When will we see the 'mainline' Silverado EV multi-series / multi-configuration reveal??