2022 Lucid Air Grand Touring vs. 2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS

[ccap41]

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-lucid-air-vs-mercedes-benz-eqs-electric-luxury-car-comparison-test-review/

The Lucid wipes the floor with the Mercedes in the aesthetics and powertrain categories.

"Things continue to diverge on the performance and drivetrain front, but each for its own purpose. The 2022 Mercedes EQS580 4Matic shuttles silently via dual motors—one front, one rear—fed by a battery with 107.8 kWh of usable power, offering a stellar combined 516 hp and 631 lb-ft of torque. These twin spinners have more than 5,800 pounds to scuttle, but there's enough shimmy between them to slingshot the EQS580 from 0 to 60 mph in 3.7 seconds and down the quarter mile in 12.2 seconds. It's no Tesla Model S Plaid, but who gives a hoot? This is more speed than anyone remotely interested in the type of drive the EQS offers will ever need.

If the Mercedes is a Germanic bullet train, the Lucid is the Concorde. In this as-tested Grand Touring trim, it's the same twin-motor setup as the Benz, only with 800 hp and 885 lb-ft from its 113-kWh battery pack. This predictably leads to a low, low 0-to-60 time of 3.0 seconds and a quarter-mile run in 10.8. Again, neither of these big-ass luxo sleds are sport sedans, so any time quicker than 5.0 seconds is just icing.

On the all-important subject of range, it's a total bloodbath. The most careful Mercedes EQS580 drivers will manage a strong 340 miles before plugging in, a figure that pales in comparison to the Lucid Air Grand Touring's record-setting EPA-certified 516-mile capability. You don't have to spring for a bigger battery, either; all Air Grand Tourings come packed with this capacity, and even the wheeziest, weakest of the Lucid range covers a stonkin' 406 miles between charges."

[smk4565]

The S-class is a better car than the EQS, that is problem 1 for Mercedes.  The S580 looks better inside and out and has a better interior than the EQS.  I am not a fan of the jelly bean styling of the EQS.  The next S-class will be an EV only product and the EQS will basically die off so that will solve that.

 

The Lucid Air is actually the size of the EQE, so I'd be curious to see how the EQE's AMG version stacks up when it has more performance than the big soft cruiser that is the EQS.

The Lucid Air looks like a really good car, I just don't know who is paying $139k at dealerships that don't exist to find them.  

[balthazar]

EQS is a stylistic mess, that's true, but unfortunately it IS the next s-class; Daimler is following many other OEMs in selling a next gen model alongside a 'classic' variant, hedging their bet on the EQS acceptance. Which I wouldn't be surprised is shockingly poor.

[balthazar]

Reading elsewhere that LG Chem's past production woes greatly affected Daimler's initial electric 'Tesla-killer' EQC production. Slated to build 25,000 units for 2019 and desperately leaned upon to cut corporate carbon emissions (or face a 1 billion Euro fine), Daimler only managed to produce 7,000 units. Ironically, in it's home turf of Germany, only 55 EQC's were sold.
For 2020, the projected volume was to be 60,000 units, but the same issues then dropped that projection to 30K.

This was from a Jan 2020 article.

Through 3 quarters of 2021, Daimler has only managed to sell just under 18,000 EQCs, for an annual pace of 24K units. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by balthazar

[surreal1272]

On 11/27/2021 at 5:14 PM, smk4565 said:

The Lucid Air looks like a really good car, I just don't know who is paying $139k at dealerships that don't exist to find them.  

The same thing was said about Tesla. How'd that turn out? 

[balthazar]

^ To be fair, the Tesla sedan selling remotely close to that price tier -the Model S- peaked in sales way back in 2016, and 2019 was less than 50% of that number. The Model 3 cannibalized the Model S's feet off at the hips. 

But that has nothing to do with the dealer (or lack thereof) model as it does for the creaky ancient-ness of the Model S.

[smk4565]

On 11/27/2021 at 6:27 PM, balthazar said:

EQS is a stylistic mess, that's true, but unfortunately it IS the next s-class; Daimler is following many other OEMs in selling a next gen model alongside a 'classic' variant, hedging their bet on the EQS acceptance. Which I wouldn't be surprised is shockingly poor.

For sure this is the last gasoline S-class.  I suspect the S-class outsells the EQS with ease worldwide (baring some crazy EV credits in certain countries).  So if the S-class is more successful combined with the "traditional" (read old) buyers in the big car segment that aren't looking for futuristic looks, I would think the S-class's look will be evolutionary as it always is, but just have batteries in it (which will also be more compact come 2028 when it's time for a new S-class).  And this jelly bean EQS will be dead.  Wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens with the E-class, there will be another gasoline E-class for 2023-34 I'd imagine, probably run that to 2030 or so and gasoline then that will go all EV too.

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

The same thing was said about Tesla. How'd that turn out? 

Tesla was first, so they will be the hot brand, Lucid is just the next EV brand, not the original.  

Also if you look at just Model S sales, they aren't that strong.  The great majority of Tesla's volume is Model 3 and Y.  And you can get a Model S for like $75k even.  It will probably be another year before Lucid has a model under $100k, and then how long before they have a full line?

I know people love these EV start ups, but any big OEM could probably put out 5 electric SUVs, a pickup or two, a van, a couple sedans and a coupe and have a full line up in about 5 years time.  Because they are used to overhauling a line up ever 5-7 years.  There is no way Lucid has an 8-10 model line in 5 years time.  

I just watched Sandy Monro's video on where he thinks the market will be in 2030, with Tesla having 25% of the US market, the Chinese having about 25% and companies like GM and Ford and Toyota being under 5% market share.  Which I just don't see happening, Chinese cars won't catch on that fast (unless they are like 50% the cost of an American car) and these EV brands even if they build manufacturing capacity, aren't going to get their price down to beat ICE or the legacy car maker's price.  

Tesla is getting outsold in the USA and the world by BMW, Mercedes and Audi right now, and Lexus in the USA.  All credit to Tesla for pushing the industry to EV's and creating competition and shaking up the market, but no chance in hell is Tesla selling more cars than GM, Ford, and Toyota combined in 9 years time.

4 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla was first, so they will be the hot brand, Lucid is just the next EV brand, not the original.  

Also if you look at just Model S sales, they aren't that strong.  The great majority of Tesla's volume is Model 3 and Y.  And you can get a Model S for like $75k even.  It will probably be another year before Lucid has a model under $100k, and then how long before they have a full line?

I know people love these EV start ups, but any big OEM could probably put out 5 electric SUVs, a pickup or two, a van, a couple sedans and a coupe and have a full line up in about 5 years time.  Because they are used to overhauling a line up ever 5-7 years.  There is no way Lucid has an 8-10 model line in 5 years time.  

I just watched Sandy Monro's video on where he thinks the market will be in 2030, with Tesla having 25% of the US market, the Chinese having about 25% and companies like GM and Ford and Toyota being under 5% market share.  Which I just don't see happening, Chinese cars won't catch on that fast (unless they are like 50% the cost of an American car) and these EV brands even if they build manufacturing capacity, aren't going to get their price down to beat ICE or the legacy car maker's price.  

Tesla is getting outsold in the USA and the world by BMW, Mercedes right now, and Lexus in the USA, Audi globally.  All credit to Tesla for pushing the industry to EV's and creating competition and shaking up the market, but no chance in hell is Tesla selling more cars than GM, Ford, and Toyota combined in 9 years time.

 

[balthazar]

The obstacle for Daimler is that the EQS is widely panned stylistically, but it cannot afford to fail because it's the literal future of the line. And it's hard to believe that Daimler would build 2 models in the same line, side-by-side, with all the massive investment, because they don't know how to properly transition from one to another and they don't know which one must fail.

[surreal1272]

15 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ To be fair, the Tesla sedan selling remotely close to that price tier -the Model S- peaked in sales way back in 2016, and 2019 was less than 50% of that number. The Model 3 cannibalized the Model S's feet off at the hips. 

But that has nothing to do with the dealer (or lack thereof) model as it does for the creaky ancient-ness of the Model S.

Missing the point. SMK is saying basically that Lucid will struggle because there are not enough dealers and no one is familiar with them. My response is that Tesla went through the same thing (a decade ago) yet they are successful today (their many flaws notwithstanding). It’s that simple and my statement has nothing to do with individual models and such. 

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla was first, so they will be the hot brand, Lucid is just the next EV brand, not the original.

What?

 

By your logic, GM should not have succeeded in the early 1900s because Ford was first to sell to the masses. Ford was first. GM was just another brand. 
 

Not even reading the rest of your post when it starts out with stuff like that. Just more apples to oranges nonsense. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

On 11/27/2021 at 4:14 PM, smk4565 said:

The Lucid Air looks like a really good car, I just don't know who is paying $139k at dealerships that don't exist to find them.

The Air does not start at 138k. You can get in one with 406 miles of range and 480hp for $77,400. It is priced very similarly to the Model S.

[ccap41]

On 11/27/2021 at 4:14 PM, smk4565 said:

The Lucid Air is actually the size of the EQE, so I'd be curious to see how the EQE's AMG version stacks up when it has more performance than the big soft cruiser that is the EQS.

Exterior size, yes. If you look at the interior dimensions, it's nearly identical to the EQS. 

[surreal1272]

20 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 There is no way Lucid has an 8-10 model line in 5 years time.

Again, ten years didn't seem to be a problem for you in regards to the almost TEN year old Tesla Model S. Your have touted its "success" at damn near every turn.

[ccap41]

53 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Again, ten years didn't seem to be a problem for you in regards to the almost TEN year old Tesla Model S. Your have touted its "success" at damn near every turn.

At this rate, at least their EV efforts will be fully baked, unlike Mercedes' efforts thus far. Okay, the EQS is overall really good, it just looks like a compliance automobile rather than a flagship with presence. Their other EVs have been pretty hot garbage as well... 

[surreal1272]

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Again, ten years didn't seem to be a problem for you in regards to the almost TEN year old Tesla Model S. You have touted its "success" at damn near every turn.

Corrected.

[smk4565]

19 hours ago, balthazar said:

The obstacle for Daimler is that the EQS is widely panned stylistically, but it cannot afford to fail because it's the literal future of the line. And it's hard to believe that Daimler would build 2 models in the same line, side-by-side, with all the massive investment, because they don't know how to properly transition from one to another and they don't know which one must fail.

The next generation S-class can look like the current S-class and be electric.  No reason the 2028 S-class has to look like a jelly bean.  I'm sure they will style it in a way that they think will sell best.

[smk4565]

11 hours ago, ccap41 said:

The Air does not start at 138k. You can get in one with 406 miles of range and 480hp for $77,400. It is priced very similarly to the Model S.

Right, next year you can, because they are only selling the top model to start.  So the EQE, A6 E-tron, BMW i5, etc will all come to market in a year or 2 against it.  And the Model S is there, the Taycan and E-tron GT are there at the $100k+ price point.  If Lucid can beat them all, more power to them.  But it took Tesla 10 years to gain traction, if Lucid takes until 2030 to gain traction and get 4 models on the market, most of their competitors will have 2-3 times as many.  This market is going to be flooded with EV sedans, and there aren't that many $75k+ sedan buyers that exist, that is why the RLX, Continental, K900, GS, CT6, CTS, MKZ all died, I think the Jaguar XJ died, and is coming back as an EV.  But sedans aren't where the market is, even the E-class and 5-series are down from what they used to be, and they are sort of last men standing as most others gave up.