Airplanes

[oldshurst442]

^^^   @David  

I was to post that pic, but I had technical difficulties doing so, got frustrated.  so I left it out.  

Thanx for posting it!!!

Edited April 22, 2022 by oldshurst442

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Phoque YEAH!!!

Imagine how steady you have to be in order to accomplish that sort of thing? 

The pilot has to counter every little blip for a rescue mission like that to succeed.  Blips like wind, or if in the water, the waves.  The people walking inside the helicopter also produces bounces.   I would be in a psychological mess trying to focus to get the Chinook steady enough for people to be rescued.  LOL

EXACTLY what I was thinking! I couldn't imagine the concentration level, skills, and experience needed to accomplish any of those. 

[G. David Felt]

@oldshurst442 @ccap41 Think of all the armed forces who were doing flying like that in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. War time is even more crazy and yet the pilots hung their ass out on crazy ridges to pick up wounded, sick, innocent civilians, etc.

Canadians on deployment in Mali

[oldshurst442]

[oldshurst442]

[oldshurst442]

[oldshurst442]

 

[oldshurst442]

[oldshurst442]

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

 

[trinacriabob]

On 6/22/2022 at 7:33 PM, oldshurst442 said:

 

 

Thanks for posting.  I love this stuff!  I did get to experience the A-380 .... once.  It was on British Airways to London, with a connection down to BLQ (Bologna).  

I am most loyal to Boeing, especially since I've lived within 20 miles of where they build their big planes.  While the A-380 is interesting from some angles, the Boeing 747 is beautiful from every angle.

I took British because it had one thing the other European carriers did not have - that last segment upstairs, in some configurations and which may go away, is regular economy.  So, to pick out the seat and sit next to the window, I had to pay a little more.  The landing is much like on any wide body, but the take off was weird.  It seems to lumber along, taking its sweet time to rotate, and, if sitting upstairs, the whole experience feels isolated and hushed.  You sort of have to look at the end of the wing to gauge what's going on from an upstairs window in the back of the plane.  I'd say it's quieter than the 747 (even the newer 8-i) when taking off, but the noise level is about the same when at cruising speed.

It would make sense to fly one of these jumbos rather than 2 full B-787s on the same route (like London to New York or Paris to Montreal.)  But it would have to be close to full to have it pencil out.

With Lufthansa pulling back on this aircraft, maybe for the time being, they've rolled back the clock.  The 747-8i is now their flagship and the Airbus 340 is now the "veep" in their fleet structure.  Lufthansa Group owns other airlines besides Lufthansa proper, such as Austrian, Swiss, Eurowings, and others.  On Lufthansa and Swiss, one can fly on the Airbus 340 to Frankfurt and Zurich on select routes and I look forward to doing this, since the A-340 is a quad, is laid out 2-4-2 in economy, and is my favorite Airbus product.

Here's a photo taken from the upstairs of the Airbus 380 of a Swiss Airbus 340-300 on a taxiway at MIA (Swiss sometimes uses a B-777 on that route).  It took me by surprise.  I wish I had gotten more and better photos of that A-340!

Edited June 24, 2022 by trinacriabob

[oldshurst442]

I dont know if this is legit or CGI, but if its legit, the F22 is more awesome than I thought it was.

 

Looks like humans back here on earth could defend ourselves quite all right if ever the First Order decided to invade. Thee F22 could hold its own, if the video is legit and not CGI, and downright an X Wing fighter  competitor.  In fact, Id rather the Raptor over the X Wing.  The X Wing doesnt seem to be able to out maneuver it...

The X Wing looks good and all with Poe in the cockpit, but the Raptor could fall out of the sky flat and still actually fly...  If its legit and not CGI. 

Its unbelievable???!!!!   

 

 

[trinacriabob]

Very inspiring and the plane deserves to "live," as did all the passengers on it, so it's in a museum.  That was a miracle and, sadly, not all calamities end that way.  The only one I can think of that ended "favorably" for those on board was the Air France A 340 that landed at Toronto during severe weather and kept on hurtling to the end of the runway, went down the embankment next the the massive 401 expressway, burst into flames, and EVERYBODY made it out alive.

Who can forget those events and watching the TV reports on them?

What Happened To The Airbus A320 That Landed On The Hudson? (msn.com)

Edited July 24, 2022 by trinacriabob

[Robert Hall]

^ My sister was a frequent flyer for business for 20+ years, and after the 'Miracle on the Hudson' she recognized Captain Sullenberger, had flown on several of his flights previously...she's done with business travel, and soon likely done w/ corporate life after 40+ years in the game, with the last 20 mostly in management consulting.

[trinacriabob]

[G. David Felt]

49 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

Blow me Airways?

[trinacriabob]

3 hours ago, David said:

Blow me Airways?

Ouch!

Yes, maybe something like that.

[oldshurst442]

 

[trinacriabob]

Just an FYI about jumbo aircraft and who operates them in these changing times.  I was contemplating some travel in the future and looking at Google Flights.

Of ALL European carriers with scheduled commercial flights to international locations, and especially the U.S.

The Airbus 380 is only operated by British Airways*

- they are now flying them to quite a few U.S. cities, such as MIA, ORD (Chicago), SFO, BOS, and IAD (Washington DC)

The Boeing 747 (8i) is only operated by Lufthansa

- they bought almost 20 of them and use them a lot

- - - - -

* Other Europeans, namely Lufthansa and Air France, have (had) Airbus 380s.  It just remains to be seen whether they will return to service or are parked somewhere warm and dry waiting to be sold.

If you want to experience flying on an A380 or B747-8i, it will be easier to do so on Asian (Singapore, Korean, Cathay Pacific) and Oceanic (Qantas) carriers.

- - - - -

It's good fun to hunt and peck (not that slow, actually) on Google Flights and dream ...

[trinacriabob]

So, everyone seems to know that Princess Juliana international airport on the Dutch island of St. Maarten in the Caribbean is the place to watch large aircraft buzz over you on the beach as they land at this airport, just across the roadway and fence.

It turns out some Greek islands, such as Skiathos (Sporades chain) and Corfu, also have close margins for landings and take-off.

This one - recently occurring at Skiathos, a beautiful, greener, and less known island of Greece compared to Santorini and Mykonos - takes the cake.

Caught on camera: Viral video shows Wizz Air plane landing close to beach at Skiathos Airport in Greece - ABC7 Los Angeles

Another "tight" airport is Cristiano Ronaldo (soccer player) Airport on the Portuguese island of Madeira - not part of the Azores chain.

On pylons next to the ocean.

Edited August 15, 2022 by trinacriabob
grammar!

[oldshurst442]

^^^

I wanted to post a pic of that A320 NEO on Skiathos !

You did one better and posted a link to a video!

Awesome!

[trinacriabob]

The last 2 big American carriers to hang onto a 747(-400):  Delta and United.  They would fly them on routes from their American gateway cities to major international destinations and Hawai'i.  I believe they were discontinued just within the last 5 years.

Delta

United

Of these 2 holdouts, I only few on United's jumbo once ... from Washington DC (connecting location) to Frankfurt.

When the plane was newer, every major American carrier had one and they were using them from coast to coast, or part of the way ... to Chicago.

@oldshurst442

Air Canada also had them for a long time, and it was basically the same thing - from Toronto to places like Frankfurt and London.

Everyone had gone to an all white livery with no window striping by the end of the chapter.

[G. David Felt]

R.I.P. Boeing 747

Love the Dreamliner.

787 Dreamliner interior

Nice transition space between 1st class and business class or premium class before coach.

747-8 interior

As one can see, the Dreamliner is a much nicer upgrade over the 747.

I will say that the one time I was flown 1st class when at Microsoft and was upstairs, it was a very cool thing to walk up these stairs and enjoy the isolated first-class seating area and lounge.

[trinacriabob]

3 hours ago, David said:

R.I.P. Boeing 747

Love the Dreamliner.

787 Dreamliner interior

Nice transition space between 1st class and business class or premium class before coach.

747-8 interior

As one can see, the Dreamliner is a much nicer upgrade over the 747.

I will say that the one time I was flown 1st class when at Microsoft and was upstairs, it was a very cool thing to walk up these stairs and enjoy the isolated first-class seating area and lounge.

I also like the Dreamliner.  I've only flown on it twice - from LAX to DFW, within the U.S, and from LPA to MAD, within Spain.  I like the bins, ceiling treatments, bigger windows, and more "humid" cabin ... great for the sinuses.  

I wondered why they couldn't make the Dreamliner 2-4-2 seating in economy.  Then, the light bulb came on.  Duh.  Simple math:  2+4+2=8 and 3+3+3=9.  So, maybe they could have made the Dreamliner a little bit longer and gone 2-4-2 with in economy!  I'll decide after I fly on a Dreamliner on a long flight, like across the ocean.

So, you got to fly upstairs on the 747.  I'm guessing this was after the era of the spiral staircase.  I got to fly up there once, too, but Air France had made the upper level premium economy and used a larger part of the first level ahead of the wing for first and business class.  I got upgraded on the American side without even asking for it.  The agent at check-in saw that I had red-eyed the night before for the connection and would be red-eying again on this flight, so he put me upstairs.  Mostly, the French and French-Canadians have always treated me well and the stereotype doesn't hold up well, at least for me!

[ccap41]

 

[trinacriabob]

Man, who gets this footage with these vantage points?!? That is a very retro livery for TAP.

This is a  tough airport to land in, at the water's edge of this Portuguese island 600 miles off the coast of Portugal, and very popular with UK and German tourists.  It's the narrow runway, wind, and fog.   I was thinking the pilot would do a go around instead of putting the wheels down.

[oldshurst442]

 

[oldshurst442]

 

 

[oldshurst442]

[oldshurst442]

[trinacriabob]

On 8/31/2022 at 12:21 AM, oldshurst442 said:

 

Wondering when the new Boeing 747-8i is to make its debut as Air Force One.

Doing some reminiscing and found a photo of Varig Brasil's jumbo.  Brazil's flag carrier hasn't operated in a long time, but they were definitely THE Brazilian airline, even with nonstops from LAX to GRU (Sao Paulo), and maybe even Rio.

Here's their 747-300 approaching the south runway at LAX:

Here's their very last livery, with the jumbo flying in front of Sugarloaf Mountain and Rio's beaches on approach to GIG (Rio de Janeiro International)

 

[oldshurst442]

On 9/16/2022 at 2:09 PM, trinacriabob said:

Wondering when the new Boeing 747-8i is to make its debut as Air Force One.

There are a LOT of delays.

From engineering oversights to using existing 747-8s rather than building new from the ground-up due to tedious, careful, time consuming redux renovations to Boeing mishandling the over-all project.  

The planes had to be put on stilts, stilts that needed to be calibrated individually each and every time a part of the aircraft had to come off so no additional stress made it to the rest of the body.  Flex stress.  

Boeing also has some major competence problems in handling the project.  One smart thing Trump did do on the contract is that any cost overruns would come out of Boeing and not the American tax payer.   

Boeing also hired a company to do the interior but that company went bankrupt due to Covid's influence on the world's economy so that  put a kink on the time-line as well.   

 

One thing that bothers me is how Trump thinks he saved US tax payer's money on canceling the order of two new planes by buying 2 already built 747-8s from a deal that never took place due to the fact that those 2 747s were never delivered because the airline went bankrupt.  However, the fact that presidential aircraft are highly modified aircraft,  using 2 already built planes would require dismantling of those airplanes only to be rebuilt  is just wasting unnecessary  time and energy gaining no advantage...

 

 I for one, like Trump's colour proposal 

 

It aint happenin' that way.   Biden ditched that colour scheme.  Something about the blue on the bottom heating up the fuselage that additional engineering costs need to be made to insulate the sensitive electronics.  I dont know...

Its a soap opera through and though from Trump's moment canceling Obama's order and shttyng his pants with glee telling us he saved tax payer money, to the press coverage of changing of Air Force One's livery to Boeing's incompetence of delivering the planes on time to Biden's canceling of Tump's colour choice...

I dont recall this much circus with George senior getting his 747. 

Nor do I recall reading anything bad about Kennedy and the now classic livery of Air Force One...

 

 

[oldshurst442]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27179/exclusive-photos-future-air-force-one-747-has-left-california-to-begin-modification-in-texas

 

 

Quote

 

The planes were once intended to be delivered to a Russian airline, but that never happened after it went bankrupt. As a result, supposedly President Donald Trump himself negotiated a bargain deal on the orphaned jets from Boeing, although evidence to support that claim doesn't exist and the growing price tag of the Air Force One replacement program overall makes it all that much more questionable. 

Also, some have posited that buying aircraft that were already built to standard airline specifications may end up actually costing more to convert them into VC-25Bs compared to just ordering new aircraft as some modifications and provisions for certain unique systems, electromagnetic hardening, and wiring could not have been made on the production line and now they need to be retrofitted. Considering that a brand new 747-8i costs roughly $400M, the aircraft themselves were never a massive part of the overall program's cost.

 

 

 

[oldshurst442]

[G. David Felt]

On 9/17/2022 at 12:09 PM, oldshurst442 said:

There are a LOT of delays.

From engineering oversights to using existing 747-8s rather than building new from the ground-up due to tedious, careful, time consuming redux renovations to Boeing mishandling the over-all project.  

The planes had to be put on stilts, stilts that needed to be calibrated individually each and every time a part of the aircraft had to come off so no additional stress made it to the rest of the body.  Flex stress.  

Boeing also has some major competence problems in handling the project.  One smart thing Trump did do on the contract is that any cost overruns would come out of Boeing and not the American tax payer.   

Boeing also hired a company to do the interior but that company went bankrupt due to Covid's influence on the world's economy so that  put a kink on the time-line as well.   

 

One thing that bothers me is how Trump thinks he saved US tax payer's money on canceling the order of two new planes by buying 2 already built 747-8s from a deal that never took place due to the fact that those 2 747s were never delivered because the airline went bankrupt.  However, the fact that presidential aircraft are highly modified aircraft,  using 2 already built planes would require dismantling of those airplanes only to be rebuilt  is just wasting unnecessary  time and energy gaining no advantage...

 

 I for one, like Trump's colour proposal 

 

It aint happenin' that way.   Biden ditched that colour scheme.  Something about the blue on the bottom heating up the fuselage that additional engineering costs need to be made to insulate the sensitive electronics.  I dont know...

Its a soap opera through and though from Trump's moment canceling Obama's order and shttyng his pants with glee telling us he saved tax payer money, to the press coverage of changing of Air Force One's livery to Boeing's incompetence of delivering the planes on time to Biden's canceling of Tump's colour choice...

I dont recall this much circus with George senior getting his 747. 

Nor do I recall reading anything bad about Kennedy and the now classic livery of Air Force One...

Donald Trump takes lots of credit for things he had no actual hand in doing. From being a business looser with 6 bankruptcies under his belt to his poor handling of so much, I would have to doubt he had anything to do with the cost overruns since the Airforce issued the contract which while Trump was there for the so called final negotiations and signed contract. 

Per this story: Trump strikes $3.9 billion deal with Boeing for new Air Force One | CNN Politics

QUOTE: 

“Muilenburg congratulated Mr. Trump on his election win and committed to working with the new administration to control costs as they establish requirements for the new Air Force One to keep the program as affordable as possible and deliver the best value to American taxpayers,” said Boeing’s statement in December 2016.

More than a year after Trump famously tweeted “Cancel Order” the President and Muilenburg hammered out the new deal during a White House meeting last Tuesday.

The meeting, which was not on the President’s daily schedule, came after nearly a year of lower-level meetings between Pentagon procurement officials and Boeing executives that, at times, reached deadlock.

Seems interesting that while Trump was running to become the president, low-level meetings had been going on already leading up to the signed contract as one of the first things he took accountability for yet was already underway while Obama was in office.

No matter what, pork is pork and I am sure the Defense department of Boeing will make up for the losses on Airforce One.

[oldshurst442]

 

 

[oldshurst442]

[oldshurst442]

[G. David Felt]

@oldshurst442 Thank you for posting these pictures. I have come to appreciate the 747 so much more for it's sleek design over the fat turd of a plane by Airbus.

[trinacriabob]

On 9/17/2022 at 3:09 PM, oldshurst442 said:

 

 

This is an elegant livery.  No doubt.  The white has helped so many 747s look better, just look at those who ultimately went that route - Air Canada, Air France, Pan Am, TWA, Aerolineas Argentinas, etc. when they had them in their fleets.

I don't think Trump comes up with livery designs.  Maybe somehow he hired or gave it to came up with it.  I'm not a fan of the robin egg blue on Air Force One, except that we now know that livery.  I do like the one above, provided that's (dark) blue and NOT black.  The raked wing design on this aircraft is a thing of beauty.

[G. David Felt]

11 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

This is an elegant livery.  No doubt.  The white has helped so many 747s look better, just look at those who ultimately went that route - Air Canada, Air France, Pan Am, TWA, Aerolineas Argentinas, etc. when they had them in their fleets.

I don't think Trump comes up with livery designs.  Maybe somehow he hired or gave it to came up with it.  I'm not a fan of the robin egg blue on Air Force One, except that we now know that livery.  I do like the one above, provided that's (dark) blue and NOT black.  The raked wing design on this aircraft is a thing of beauty.

I like the baby powder blue of the current Airforce one, but I also suspect that is from my engineering background on light colors are better than dark ones for how heat is dealt with. Amazing how much hotter a black auto is compared to the same auto painted white.

The rest of the plan is cool, but I have to wonder what will get overlooked as they try to make a commercial plan hardened for being Airforce One. We already know that the wings will be taken off so they can strip all the existing wiring to replace it all with hardened wiring to withstand a nuclear explosion. Then there is the hardening of the hydraulic system, hardening of the windows, fuel tank, control center for the plan on top of a proper command control center that is added to the second floor after delivery, what will be missed in this retro fit? I think the order should have been new plans from the assembly line to begin with.

[oldshurst442]

16 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

The white has helped so many 747s look better, just look at those who ultimately went that route - Air Canada, Air France, Pan Am, TWA, Aerolineas Argentinas, etc. when they had them in their fleets.

I never thought of it that way.  And guess what? You are correct!  

 

20 hours ago, David said:

 I have come to appreciate the 747 so much more for it's sleek design

Yes.  The 747 is a beauty.  Still after all these decades.

20 hours ago, David said:

the fat turd of a plane by Airbus.

I know your heart is in San Franc  Seattle...and Ill agree to a point that the A380 may not be as attractive and pleasing to the eye as the 747.  She is a bit of a hefty girl. 

But she needs to be that way.  She is a double decker all the way through.

She has adopted an oval (egg) shape all the way through JUST like the 747 is only like that on its 'hump'.

 

I get your Seattle pride, but...the A380 is beautiful in its own unique way.  And its fine that you dont like her.  Aside Airbus' several mistakes on her

1.  The timing of her launch was miscalculated as jumbo jet flying for most airlines was coming to an end as single engined wide bodies and flying preferences changed the game. 

2. Airbus actually DID initially design her as a transport plane, but changed the cockpit placement at the last minute negating a transport version.  Had they stayed the course and made the cockpit above the nose to open up like the 747, the 747 would have died almost immediately.  Airports WOULD have spent money to accommodate the A380.  Airlines, despite Boeing's effort with the 747-8 would have balked at it and the A380 would have taken its place.

 

 

Despite her girth, heft and sheer size, she flies elegantly...

So put THAT in your Boeing pipe and smoke it!!!

[oldshurst442]

17 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

This is an elegant livery.  No doubt. 

I dont get the hate it got. I hate Trump as much as the next guy, and he didnt even come up with it...as you pointed out and  @David showed us with his link, it is a beautiful livery. And quite presidential.  Modern would be another adjective. 

The guy is a conman, but that doesnt mean he doesnt have taste.

OK...I take that back...

So phoquing gaudy. 
I like showey showey myself, and Im quite loud and egotistical, but yeah...Im not into the King Midas gold thing...   

And the French Provincial thing on the side and that chandelier, man....  I was born in 1973, not 1773 or even 1873...       Neither was he...

17 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

I'm not a fan of the robin egg blue on Air Force One, except that we now know that livery. 

 

6 hours ago, David said:

I like the baby powder blue of the current Airforce one, but I also suspect that is from my engineering background on light colors are better than dark ones for how heat is dealt with.

I like the robin egg blue and gold accents. It looks good on a 747.  But I think that that livery's time has come.  A more modern take would be great.  I am Canadian so maybe MY voice should be hushed on that matter...

I understand the darker colours being problematic with heat retention and electronics, it is a shame that the proposed livery is a no-go. 

[G. David Felt]

This is very cool to see, new C130 float planes.

C-130 Seaplane Should Fly In 2023 Says Air Force Special Ops Commander (msn.com)

[trinacriabob]

I was hunting around for Airbus 340 vids.  How I miss this plane.  Back in its heyday, if I got on an Airbus 340, I was sort of steamed I didn't get onto a Boeing 747.  Now, I wish I had ridden on more of them.

This video is sort of long, but very educational.  For one, it pointed out that the Airbus 330 (twin) and Airbus 340 (quad) were developed at the same time and share a lot of parts ... both are 2-4-2.  The 340 (quad) fell out of favor, while the 330 (twin) keeps spawning new variants, the latest of which is the -900 neo.  

They made 4 of the Airbus 340 - 200, 300, 500, and 600.  One saw a lot of 300s and then a lot of 600s.  I've flown on both.  The 300 "looks" better.  Yes, it was the current time's answer to the very dated Boeing 707 and its skinny engines.  The 600 roars and those big engines get that disproportionately long fuselage (longer than a 747, IIRC) to rotate fairly quickly.

Just great!  A cool 300 version, flown by Swiss and obviously in Swiss airspace.  Did I mention that I miss this plane?

[oldshurst442]

21 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

Airbus 340 (quad) were developed at the same time and share a lot of parts

(in Johnny Carson accent)  I did not know that.

(in Russian accent) Thank-you for information.  

 

 

[oldshurst442]

On 9/22/2022 at 12:28 PM, David said:

new C130 float planes.

 Well...this C130 didnt float so good...

[trinacriabob]

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

Love that Iberia A340-600.  Look at those engines and the open thrust reversers.

The only A340-600 I've flown on was operated by Iberia ... it was a Chicago O'Hare to Madrid flight, connecting onward to BLQ from there.  The 300s I've been on were from Lufthansa and Iberia.

It left on time and got in a little early ... a lot of them do going eastbound since they pick up a good tail wind from the jet stream.  It was still fairly dark upon landing in Madrid.

Iberia and Aerolineas Argentinas were under the same umbrella at one time, with both having what they called the "arcoiris" livery going over the top of the fuselages, but with different colors based on each country's flag.

On AR, I flew on their 747-200 from Miami to Argentina and back.  Half empty in each direction and oh so comfortable with armrests up and laying down horizontally to sleep.

This was the livery before the very last one.  Nice.

I like the white one above, but this very last one, below, is kind of interesting.  Here it is in Auckland, New Zealand!  Some early Airbus 340s had those unusual thrust reversers that stuck out, like on this one.

[oldshurst442]

I like the picture. Something soothing about it.  

 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

13 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

I like the picture. Something soothing about it.  

 

 

Yes, soothing, but would you really want to fly on a Russian maintained or lack there of plane?

Always reminds me of about 8 years ago, a China Airways Jet flew into Germany and the Germans would not let the plane fly due to the poor condition of the engines where Chinese folks uses seatbelt straps to hold the fins together.

We have seen plenty of 3rd world planes that were fine when new in the US or Europe then sold after decades of use to a poor country who then flies them literally into the ground with minimal maintenance and then a crash costing human life.

An amazing feat of human engineering that can also be deadly.