Lambda's In '10

[Guest Josh]

Edited June 13, 2006 by Josh

[Drew Dowdell]

When does the Uplander end?

[pow]

Good. It's not difficult to make a good van... they just need to stay up-to-date with the features, power, and size.

[FAPTurbo]

I wonder, would the vans have a V8 option?

You never know, it may appeal to the men who'll likely drive the van's.

Or even give them some towing/hauling advantage. But then again, Lambda is FWD.

[Drew Dowdell]

A 5.3 in the GMC would be great for a Denali edition....

[Drew Dowdell]

UV8 is alive again?

[sciguy_0504]

I'm really waiting for a GMC sedan.

[evok]

UV8 is alive again?

No UV8 is DOA - But you might hear it referred to as the UV8 but it is not.

Edited June 11, 2006 by evok

[Drew Dowdell]

No UV8 is DOA - But you might hear it referred to as the UV8 but it is not.

So what is the "not-the-UV8" that we would be getting?

DOHC? Pushrod? Old rebuilt Northstar?

[evok]

Ah well that's news to me. Why and when did that happen? What's the new "UV8" ?

It has been doa for a while now. This is more semantics than anything important.

UV8 - NS v3.0

[pow]

I suppose it's good for GM to carve its own niche of minivans. The new Sedona is competitive in every way, being an Odyssey clone, but the only way Kia can sell it is by charging less than everybody else. GM really has an opportunity to shine in a huge market with lots of potential... it should be interesting how they approach it.

That said, a V8 is taboo in a minivan, as it's anti-social and anti-family-values. GM should offer something unique and noteworthy, something that will create long waiting lines (Odysseys were marked up $2K+ back in '99), without resorting to brute force. As much as I want a sporty, RWD, manual, hardtop minivan, enthusiasts don't command the market.

[TylerDorran]

Chevy and GMC both get vans in '10.

Welcome to 2004.

You know why they put airbags in cars?

[4gm]

Are these the space age looking minivans that some have seen sketches of? Will they be badge jobs of each other only to be proclaimed just another stopgap measure?

[Cadillacfan]

I'm really waiting for a GMC sedan.

Don't joke. At this rate.. it might actually happen.

I don't understand. I thought that GMC and Buick were supposed to compliment one another. How is adding more models to an already large range of vehicles supposed to work when you have to share the same dealership with two other brands? Chevy should only recieve the minivan. GM should devote all of it's money to it and make it class-leading and unique in it's segment. Something that the company can do with the right amount of money.

No more crappy rebadging. Either you make the GMC vehicles unique or you drop it. GMC still sells pretty well but as you can tell, their adding more non-SUV models in an attempt to keep sales from dropping dramatically due to rising gas prices. They should phase out the brand or at least produce industrial vehicles.

Leave Chevy to the trucks and SUVs... and now minivans.

Edited June 12, 2006 by Cadillacfan

[CSpec]

Check Ted's code page.. the vans have been there for a while.

[Cadillacfan]

Still.. I'd rather not have two. No reason other then keeping costs down.

[DetroitNut90]

2010 seems too far for my hopes. They need a class-leading product now , not 4 years from now. And if GMC must get one, GM, please, I beg you, make it look different than the Chevy!

And I think that a V8 in a minivan is a great idea. If it gets good fuel economy, has more useable interior room than similarly-sized SUVs, and doesn't look boring, I can see some people looking into one over an SUV.

[deftonesfan867]

That said, a V8 is taboo in a minivan, as it's anti-social and anti-family-values.

Best. Line. Ever. Dual pipes on a V8 Minivan anyone??

I think if can offer a smooth V8 with good milage in a safe minivan then it could please both mom and dad.

[FAPTurbo]

That said, a V8 is taboo in a minivan, as it's anti-social and anti-family-values.

That wouldn't explain all the V8 HEMI Magnum's I see carting kids to the field and elementary school near my house.

I think if GM does a good job with the V8 in an AWD or even FWD setup, it'll give Dad a reason to get it over a Sienna.

A guy at work who is a father is looking at a Magnum R/T as well, and one of the reasons is because the HEMI will let him tool around with it a bit more, and give him plenty of cargo space, but also because he is sick and tired of his kids getting confused as to which Toyota Sienna in the Hockey Rink's parking lot is theirs (no joke ) .

[Imaj]

Chevy and GMC both get vans in '10.

So the CSVs are going to be around until 2010

[I hope GMRULES again]

So the CSVs are going to be around until 2010 

They die after 2008 so maybe there won't be any vans for a year or so. By then it will have been 25 years since the minivan debuted and still nothing competitive to offer.

[dford]

Think about that......25 years and GM has NEVER had a competitive minivan - nor has Ford for that matter. How can the 2 largest car makers not be in a huge segment of the market for so long?!

[Flybrian]

Think about that......25 years and GM has NEVER had a competitive minivan - nor has Ford for that matter. How can the 2 largest car makers not be in a huge segment of the market for so long?!

I would argue the Aerostar was competitive in the way the Astro/Safari was - a minivan that provides additional capabilities beyond your normal car-based van without the unneeded bulk of a G20/Express, Econonline, or Ram Wagon. And while that's a respected niche, its not where the majority of the market lies.

[I hope GMRULES again]

Think about that......25 years and GM has NEVER had a competitive minivan - nor has Ford for that matter. How can the 2 largest car makers not be in a huge segment of the market for so long?!

The word IDIOTS comes to mind.

[-Camaro-]

Good. It's not difficult to make a good van... they just need to stay up-to-date with the features, power, and size.

That just makes an average van. You need to bring new things to the table or do something to make it stand out.

[Flybrian]

If this is the case, by the way, where Chevrolet and GMC are the only ones to get vans, GMC's should skew towards the luxurious. Forgo things like Stow-N'-Go that result in more uncomfortable seating. Swath the thing in luxury and brutish elegance (think Denali line) with a DoD DI V8 option. Yes, V8 the thing because it fits GMC's character to do so.

[pow]

If this is the case, by the way, where Chevrolet and GMC are the only ones to get vans, GMC's should skew towards the luxurious. Forgo things like Stow-N'-Go that result in more uncomfortable seating. Swath the thing in luxury and brutish elegance (think Denali line) with a DoD DI V8 option. Yes, V8 the thing because it fits GMC's character to do so.

Judging by the relative success of the R-class, that's not a bad way to go.

[FAPTurbo]

If this is the case, by the way, where Chevrolet and GMC are the only ones to get vans, GMC's should skew towards the luxurious. Forgo things like Stow-N'-Go that result in more uncomfortable seating. Swath the thing in luxury and brutish elegance (think Denali line) with a DoD DI V8 option. Yes, V8 the thing because it fits GMC's character to do so.

[DetroitNut90]

It would be a crime for GM not to put something like Stow n' Go in the new vans. After renting a Grand Caravan with Stow n' Go for a week in South Carolina and then coming back home to our Venture was not pleasant. Removing and replacing the seats in it is more like a punishment than anything. If I would have known at the time we bought the Venture how much of a nightmare the seats would be, I would have told my mom to hold out for a Grand Caravan w/Stow n' Go.

And Stow n' Go's seats really aren't all that uncomfortable. The backs just don't rise as high, that's all.

[titan]

This is amazing. First, GMC gets a Lambda (professional grade soft roader) to share showroomspace with the Enclave. Now, it'll get a minivan??? I could see Chevy having one, and Saturn getting a plush version of one... that's it though.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Here lies GMC: 19xx(?)-2013. A car-based minivan (oh wait, they all are) is suicide-a seriously bad move. Chevy and Buick should get the minivans, one luxurious long wheelbase; mainstream short and long wheelbases (I was formerly advocating for a truly sport SWB Pontiac Montana as well, but Mazda MPV is on its deathbed in the states, and Chevy looks like it can be capable of great styling too, plus I'm embracing their RWD-only performance image, so that's backburner-bound). These vans can't come soon enough-2010 is a long way for these dogs. Kudos to Saturn NOT getting a next minivan-import the Vectra-based large MPV, slap the Relay badge there.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Also, I don't see the old 1986-97 Ford Aerostar and 1985-2005 Chevy Astro/GMC Safari as minivans-they were based on Ranger and S-10/S-15/Sonoma respectively, and were all therefore trucks. The first true minivans from Ford and GM were the 1993 (92.5) Mercury Villager, 1995 Ford Windstar, and 1990 Chevy Lumina APV/Pontiac TransSport/Oldsmobile Silhouette. And we all know their lasting success stories and reliability records.

[blair1118]

I guess it makes sense to have a GMC version over a Buick, you can have it from stipper commercial grade, to uber lux Denali

[Guest Josh]

Glad to see my $h! still makes front page news, but isnt quoted as such.

This place is going down hill faster than a K-Car with no brakes.

[91z4me]

This place is going down hill faster than a K-Car with no brakes.

Josh really if you don't like it then just leave. Nobody is stopping you from leaving here and not posting anymore.

[bdubsee]

Glad to see my $h! still makes front page news, but isnt quoted as such.

This place is going down hill faster than a K-Car with no brakes.

Wow! What a thread kill. Why did you remove the text of your original post?

[enzl]

Here lies GMC: 19xx(?)-2013. A car-based minivan (oh wait, they all are) is suicide-a seriously bad move. Chevy and Buick should get the minivans, one luxurious long wheelbase; mainstream short and long wheelbases (I was formerly advocating for a truly sport SWB Pontiac Montana as well, but Mazda MPV is on its deathbed in the states, and Chevy looks like it can be capable of great styling too, plus I'm embracing their RWD-only performance image, so that's backburner-bound). These vans can't come soon enough-2010 is a long way for these dogs. Kudos to Saturn NOT getting a next minivan-import the Vectra-based large MPV, slap the Relay badge there.

Herein lies the problem: Porsche makes an SUV, I'm fairly certain GMC's 'brand image' can withstand a CUV or Minivan....

I disagree wholeheartedly with the points made:

1. A small sporty minivan would work, if it were truly a, you guessed it, small sporty minivan, not a rebadge of a mediocre product that Stevie Wonder can pick out from across the street....noone else is doing it (well)...why not create a niche? It's the lack of creativity that has f'ed GM to this point.

2. What Chevy proves their capability for 'great styling'? The only exampl I can think of isn't going to be here for 2 years and is based off a 60's icon....

3. Saturn should be bringing in every Opel they can get their hands on....you honestly don't believe the Meriva would trump other B-cars here today? The Zafira is a 7 passenger Delta? How's the Mazda 5 doing???

C'mon guys. Let's give GM some good ideas!

[Drew Dowdell]

Glad to see my $h! still makes front page news, but isnt quoted as such.

This place is going down hill faster than a K-Car with no brakes.

Don't let the blue smoke choke you on your way out...

[toesuf94]

Yeah, i was confused when I stumbled upon this thread and there was nothing of note in the original post by Josh. How can we quote was is not there?

As far as vans: The Astro/ Safari had a 20 year run, as bad as they were because they were different and offered the towing utility that the FWD's could not. The sturdy? body on frame architecture appealed to a lot of buyers, as there were quite a few sold.

With that said: GM needs to come to market with SOMETHING - ANYTHING! - that is ground breaking and segment leading. I have to say that I am tired of a company with the power and history that GM posesses always following the competition, never showing THEM what is needed. The first cars that come to mind of recent memory were the Bel Air concept and the Nomad Kappa concept. Think about how many of the little 30+ MPG Nomads GM could be selling right NOW (Pontiac Safari too!) to the people who are out there buying Beetles and Minis...it is sad. And the outcry was great about the Bel Air - what happened? Two years after the Bel Air Concept - we see the Ford '49 concept. What did we get: From GM - A Malibu that is a Meh...and from Ford - The Cadillac Fusion.

Is anyone out there paying attention? Mini vans sell in droves...how hard can it be to build one BETTER than the others? It is almost like somebody telling a little kid to do something and they have to drag the little kid along to get them to do it - and when the kid gets to the task, he crosses his arms and holds his breath - 'Not Gonna Do IT!' - GM, you have been holding your breath since 1984...time to take a big breath and blow away the competition for once.

[Drew Dowdell]

Herein lies the problem: Porsche makes an SUV, I'm fairly certain GMC's 'brand image' can withstand a CUV or Minivan....

I disagree wholeheartedly with the points made:

1. A small sporty minivan would work, if it were truly a, you guessed it, small sporty minivan, not a rebadge of a mediocre product that Stevie Wonder can pick out from across the street....noone else is doing it (well)...why not create a niche? It's the lack of creativity that has f'ed GM to this point.

2. What Chevy proves their capability for 'great styling'? The only exampl I can think of isn't going to be here for 2 years and is based off a 60's icon....

3. Saturn should be bringing in every Opel they can get their hands on....you honestly don't believe the Meriva would trump other B-cars here today? The Zafira is a 7 passenger Delta? How's the Mazda 5 doing???

C'mon guys. Let's give GM some good ideas!

I think Chevy and GMC should be the only divisions with mini-vans. Chevy covers the lower end, GMC covers the high end and effectively replaces the Terazza to take on Town and Country and the high end Japs. It may not be much, but there is a class distinction between driving a Town & Country and a Caravan.

A GMC minivan should be the type that comes with leather standard, bigger engine standard, DVD screen standard.

A GMC Minivan Denali should be available with a V8 and some decent <bigger than the rest> tow rating.

The Chevy van should only have leather available on the highest of trims. No V8 available, and less standard features.

Saturn can have one if they change the interior enough, make it kinda sweedish IKEA looking on the inside... and offer it primarily as a Green-line edition.

[Flybrian]

I think Saturn having a European sportvan as Enzl suggested to attack a different market than the regular, American sized vans would be nice.

[enzl]

I think Saturn having a European sportvan as Enzl suggested to attack a different market than the regular, American sized vans would be nice.

Niche is no longer a dirty word...(see Kappas for Niche done correctly)....I advocate finding each and every vehicle GM produces on the planet and identifying which could work in the States....It's critical to have 'must have' product in the showroom, even if its just to produce foot traffic for other product....

[SimonDavid]

3. Saturn should be bringing in every Opel they can get their hands on....you honestly don't believe the Meriva would trump other B-cars here today? The Zafira is a 7 passenger Delta? How's the Mazda 5 doing???

I totally agree. Just take the Zafira from Poland and Meriva from Brazil NOW and slap Saturn badges on them. With gas prices heading north GM might actually be ahead of the curve for a change. All the niches add up. If it was worth doing for the GTO they can do it half a dozen other vehicles as well, I vote :

Meriva

Zafira

Holden Ute (El Camino)

Astra twin-top

A small Brazilian-built sub-colorado

[Drew Dowdell]

<thread tangent> Oddly, GM having so many brands could actually be an asset if the market becomes very compartmentalized. As long as GM is willing to accept that each non-chevy division will be a smaller, boutique division while pulling off excelent product differentiation on the same platforms.

3 sporty coupes and sedans for Pontiac, no SUVs, no Vans

3 soft and luxurious sedans, one coupe/convertible, 1 crossover for Buick

Full line trucks, SUVs, crossovers, and minivans for GMC. Denali versions for all.

Full line for Chevy

Saab go bye bye

Saturn go for Euro-premium, light wood interiors, manual transmissions, hybrids for all.

Hummer H1, H2, H3, H4

Line Cadillac up with Mercedes.... NOT BMW.

[regfootball]

When does the Uplander end?

GOD THEY NEED TO END NOW! BURN THEM AT THE STAKE!!!

[regfootball]

I suppose it's good for GM to carve its own niche of minivans. The new Sedona is competitive in every way, being an Odyssey clone, but the only way Kia can sell it is by charging less than everybody else. GM really has an opportunity to shine in a huge market with lots of potential... it should be interesting how they approach it.

That said, a V8 is taboo in a minivan, as it's anti-social and anti-family-values. GM should offer something unique and noteworthy, something that will create long waiting lines (Odysseys were marked up $2K+ back in '99), without resorting to brute force. As much as I want a sporty, RWD, manual, hardtop minivan, enthusiasts don't command the market.

WRONG. a v8 would be a huge seller. the small block is PERFECT. Especially in the GMC. Saturn should get the 300hp direct injection 3.6. the chevy ought to get the base 3.6 and the small block.

Saturn, Chevy, GMC, all need a van. the GMC should be a Chevy clone/rebadge. The GMC/Chevy should target the chrysler vans. Saturn should get a van that targets the Toyota and Honda.

2010, FAR TOO LONG. what the hell is GM thinking? These vans should be here spring 07. IDIOTS.

Edited June 13, 2006 by regfootball

[regfootball]

The word IDIOTS comes to mind.

THE WORD IDIOTS IS FLASHING IN NEON ON A BILLBOARD!!!!!!!!!!

[regfootball]

If this is the case, by the way, where Chevrolet and GMC are the only ones to get vans, GMC's should skew towards the luxurious. Forgo things like Stow-N'-Go that result in more uncomfortable seating. Swath the thing in luxury and brutish elegance (think Denali line) with a DoD DI V8 option. Yes, V8 the thing because it fits GMC's character to do so.

Stow n go is a huge success and is about the only reason the Chryslers are still competitive. Flush load floors are a neccesity for a van. Folks want to haul furniture, appliances, sheet goods.

[regfootball]

Glad to see my &#036;h&#33; still makes front page news, but isnt quoted as such.

This place is going down hill faster than a K-Car with no brakes.

how can you tell? no one posts on the site anymore!

[Hudson]

Think about that......25 years and GM has NEVER had a competitive minivan - nor has Ford for that matter. How can the 2 largest car makers not be in a huge segment of the market for so long?!

The first-generation Windstar was actually competitive, if sales are any measure. But somehow the public didn't buy into the second-generation Windstar (and Ford must have just given up with the Freestar).

The worst part about Ford not playing in the minivan segment (Aerostar and Astro/Safari are small vans, not minivans) is that the idea for the minivan was hatched at Ford in the 1970s. When Iacocca went to Chrysler, a few other Ford people went as well...and took the rejected minivan idea with them. Ford could have launched the minivan around 1980 or 1981 and cornered the market. But does anyone really think that Ford's version wouldn't have lost traction like the Taurus did?