Corvette C8 Z06 1st official tease

[oldshurst442]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

like how the AMG GT black that set the record is the same one they sell.

You always have to try to belittle another company to prop up Mercedes, dont you?

LOL

Whether or not after market equipment were used, especially after market stuff that is engineered for the car in question and could be acquired through various shops or dealerships that are kinda mass produced for the car in question, it really doesnt matter...

It just shows what kind of loyality and support there is to improve said vehicle from various outlets. And whether it comes from the factory or factory supported after market outlets, it all boils down to one thing, that said vehicle is engineered superbly and could really achieve what was planned to achieve.

Porsche, like the Corvette, has extensive racing cred. Porsche, has a very loyal following and the 911 is a legend. It is no surprise that a 911, whether from the factory or from a group of hot rodding entities could achieve such an endeavor.  

Mercedes has entered this domain to try to capture a little bit of glory from the 911, from the Corvette, from speciifc Ferraris and dare I say it...the former Dodge Viper.

Mercedes has thrown all its got into the AMG GT to try to dethrone the 911. Its primary target.

Its going good for the AMG GT as its a formidable speed machine.  If the AMG GT could survive as long as a Corvette and a 991 have, then kudos to Mercedes for it.  But, many manufacturers have tried and failed to keep interest and longevity into a sports car long term.

Again, part of the mystique of a Corvette and a 911 and the Ferrari mid-engined sports cars is that these sports cars have been around for ever and it seems they aint going away...  It seems that every now and again, new entries arrive with the goal of trying to dethrone these 3, but failure is ALWAYS the end result for them.  Even when the chips were down for both the 911 and Corvette, they eventual over came extinction and thrived even stronger after nearly dying.

The AMG GT has a really really big hill to climb.

Performance? 

NAH!  They got that down pat!

A following is what they need.  This is the 1st gen.  And its a great success both performance wise and in the market place somewhat.  But...now with a new gen 911 JUST around the corner and the C8... Mercedes has got its hands full...

The launch of the AMG ONE has not arrived yet.  Its a project that has cost plenty of R&D money. Money not necessarily that Mercedes had and maybe the development of a proper 2nd gen AMG GT could suffer for it. After all, the transition to EVs might be just THAT much more important.  And even if monies for a 2nd gen AMG GT is available, how much dedication would it really have...

But the thing is, building a loyal clientele takes lots and lots of time and money. Something that Mercedes does not have regarding ICE development and/or for the AMG GT itself...

And...regarding the AMG GT itself, how much of a loyal following does it REALLY have. Is it enough to justify another generation.  A hybrid? A full on EV?  The AMG GT is a new entry. Only 7 years on the market.  How does Mercedes  know if the clientele it does have will follow and buy  the AMG GT if its a hybrid? Or an all out EV?

Again...THAT is the mystique of a Corvette. 68 years of history and data to what the clientele want and do not want from a Corvette.  It was a gamble for the Corvette to go mid-engine.  But the Corvette had 60 years (late 50s) of saying to its clientele that maybe THIS is the year/generation the Corvette will go mid-engine.  It took 60 years for this development to happen.   

One could say that its easy for the AMG GT to be done whatever Mercedes wants it to be made as it only has 7 years under its belt.  Well...7 years is not that much of a time to build an emotional connection to the car.  Nothing special has the AMG GT accomplished.  Oh...its got 1 record at 1 race track...  BIG DEAL!

Like I said, the C8 is new, a new generation of 911 is JUST around the corner. A new Ferrari mid engine has JUST been introduced.   The AMG GT sales might just drop even further making Mercedes question if its worth spending a fortune on a new generation...   

Remember, Mercedes thought it could be like Chevrolet, Porsche AND Ferrari.  Something that Mercedes is NOT. Mercedes is Mercedes.  But even Mercedes does not know what it is...

The AMG ONE is to compete with the high engineered, high dollar garage queen stuff Ferrari makes.  Problem is, THAT is what Ferrari ALWAYS done.  Make these supercars, to sell to finance racing.  Win races, and then use that racing mystique to produce more freakish street cars to sell to people to race further. Win and use THAT win to fuel more passion for the street to produce another outlandish STREET car to sell to fuel another racing victory...   THAT is Ferrari.

Mercedes built that one supercar way back in '54.  Then it became an econobox convertible.  Then it had nothing for a LOOOONG time. Until Mercedes got its hands on Chrysler for its cash to make the God ugly SLR. One and done. Then it got its hands on a Dodge platform to make a retro Gullwing.  Then it got jealous again of Ferrari, even though Mercedes has won in F1 many a time obliterating Ferrari, Ferrari still has ITS MYSTQUE game on!!!   Hence the fetish to outdo Ferrari with the AMG One.  And it seems nobody cares. Especially Ferrari.  Ferrari is as arrogant as ever.   

Ferrari LAFERRARI...  Who the phoque names a car after themselves?  

Ferrari that is who! 

Ferrarri has got some arrogant  ballz to do that.  And guess what?  The market place ACCEPTED the car and its name...why?

Because its FERRARI!!!  THAT IS WHY!!!

And then they go and create the world's most powerful naturally aspirated internal combustion ever. 6.5 liters of their very famous V12.   Even MORE famous than Mercedes' V12!!!

And they call THAT car the SUPERFAST! 

Yeah! LIKE NO SHYTE ITS SUPERFAST. AND FERRARI NAMES IT THAT!!!  

Because Ferrari has the following for them to do that kind of arrogant shyte! 

Mercedes also wants a piece of Porsche and the 911. They create the AMG GT.  But they want theirs to be a V8 and front engined. Why?  I dunno why?   Corvette envy too?

Bet they didnt see the C8 coming!!!

The problem is that to do shyte like that, it takes billions upon billions.

Porsche was their life to do 911s. They had to branch out to stay alive.  Parent company or whatever Volkswagen is to them lends a hand.    The thing is, the 911 has 60 years of development and very very very loyal following.

Mercedes is NOT a boutique sports car builder. Not anymore...  And even when it was like in '54. THAT car only lasted barely 9 years and 1 generation.  The SLS retro didnt last half of that and only one generation and they STOLE Dodge's development and used their platform...      The thing is...Mercedes has other, more lucrative markets to cater to. More important business cases to fulfill rather than a low volume....VERY low volume sports car that iits ilk is heading for extinction anyway as these types of cars have a dwindling following.  YOU said it yourself!   

The 911 was NEVER gonna be defeated by Mercedes with the AMG GT neither in performance nor in the market place...  In the short term, the AMG GT would have some successes, yes. But NEVER in the long run...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oldshurst442]

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

You don't need AWD, but it helps

Does it really though? Help? 

AWD  adds heft.  Cornering might be more balanced as the AWD would balance the turning forces by adding or subtracting thrust to the wheels that have the most and least traction...yes!

But adding heft also DESTABILIZES those same forces so new suspension and steering parameters have to be accounted for, calculated and solved.     

Add heft here with AWD, but subtract heft there to counter added said heft  will also be an engineering calculation...

I think adding AWD is just changing 4 quarters for a dollar...   

 

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 Unless your grip, traction and aero so so great that you can over come. 

Because this statement is also true...

Engineering is great because MULTIPLE solutions could be achieved through different engineering philosophies and the result would be mostly the same...

I say...depending what IMAGE one car and its maker want to portray to its potential clientele is what AWD and RWD or even FWD is what AWD, RWD and FWD does to a Nurburgring lap time...  

 

 

[surreal1272]

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

t wasn't a stock GT2 RS, like how the AMG GT black that set the record is the same one they sell.

Semantics because it still broke the record without AWD. That kit, btw, is basically an aero package and it doesn’t matter that it’s not “stock”. It can still be added by Porsche at a Porsche dealership so your attempt to dilute its achievement over the Benz is pretty obvious. 

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Semantics because it still broke the record without AWD. That kit, btw, is basically an aero package and it doesn’t matter that it’s not “stock”. It can still be added by Porsche at a Porsche dealership so your attempt to dilute its achievement over the Benz is pretty obvious. 

U'm correct me please if I am wrong in my ASSumption, but I thought Mercedes also offers dealer installed aero packages. ?

So this just makes it the same from either company imho.

[smk4565]

17 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

You always have to try to belittle another company to prop up Mercedes, dont you?

LOL

Whether or not after market equipment were used, especially after market stuff that is engineered for the car in question and could be acquired through various shops or dealerships that are kinda mass produced for the car in question, it really doesnt matter...

It just shows what kind of loyality and support there is to improve said vehicle from various outlets. And whether it comes from the factory or factory supported after market outlets, it all boils down to one thing, that said vehicle is engineered superbly and could really achieve what was planned to achieve.

Porsche, like the Corvette, has extensive racing cred. Porsche, has a very loyal following and the 911 is a legend. It is no surprise that a 911, whether from the factory or from a group of hot rodding entities could achieve such an endeavor.  

Mercedes has entered this domain to try to capture a little bit of glory from the 911, from the Corvette, from speciifc Ferraris and dare I say it...the former Dodge Viper.

Mercedes has thrown all its got into the AMG GT to try to dethrone the 911. Its primary target.

Its going good for the AMG GT as its a formidable speed machine.  If the AMG GT could survive as long as a Corvette and a 991 have, then kudos to Mercedes for it.  But, many manufacturers have tried and failed to keep interest and longevity into a sports car long term.

Again, part of the mystique of a Corvette and a 911 and the Ferrari mid-engined sports cars is that these sports cars have been around for ever and it seems they aint going away...  It seems that every now and again, new entries arrive with the goal of trying to dethrone these 3, but failure is ALWAYS the end result for them.  Even when the chips were down for both the 911 and Corvette, they eventual over came extinction and thrived even stronger after nearly dying.

The AMG GT has a really really big hill to climb.

Performance? 

NAH!  They got that down pat!

A following is what they need.  This is the 1st gen.  And its a great success both performance wise and in the market place somewhat.  But...now with a new gen 911 JUST around the corner and the C8... Mercedes has got its hands full...

The launch of the AMG ONE has not arrived yet.  Its a project that has cost plenty of R&D money. Money not necessarily that Mercedes had and maybe the development of a proper 2nd gen AMG GT could suffer for it. After all, the transition to EVs might be just THAT much more important.  And even if monies for a 2nd gen AMG GT is available, how much dedication would it really have...

But the thing is, building a loyal clientele takes lots and lots of time and money. Something that Mercedes does not have regarding ICE development and/or for the AMG GT itself...

And...regarding the AMG GT itself, how much of a loyal following does it REALLY have. Is it enough to justify another generation.  A hybrid? A full on EV?  The AMG GT is a new entry. Only 7 years on the market.  How does Mercedes  know if the clientele it does have will follow and buy  the AMG GT if its a hybrid? Or an all out EV?

Again...THAT is the mystique of a Corvette. 68 years of history and data to what the clientele want and do not want from a Corvette.  It was a gamble for the Corvette to go mid-engine.  But the Corvette had 60 years (late 50s) of saying to its clientele that maybe THIS is the year/generation the Corvette will go mid-engine.  It took 60 years for this development to happen.   

One could say that its easy for the AMG GT to be done whatever Mercedes wants it to be made as it only has 7 years under its belt.  Well...7 years is not that much of a time to build an emotional connection to the car.  Nothing special has the AMG GT accomplished.  Oh...its got 1 record at 1 race track...  BIG DEAL!

Like I said, the C8 is new, a new generation of 911 is JUST around the corner. A new Ferrari mid engine has JUST been introduced.   The AMG GT sales might just drop even further making Mercedes question if its worth spending a fortune on a new generation...   

Remember, Mercedes thought it could be like Chevrolet, Porsche AND Ferrari.  Something that Mercedes is NOT. Mercedes is Mercedes.  But even Mercedes does not know what it is...

The AMG ONE is to compete with the high engineered, high dollar garage queen stuff Ferrari makes.  Problem is, THAT is what Ferrari ALWAYS done.  Make these supercars, to sell to finance racing.  Win races, and then use that racing mystique to produce more freakish street cars to sell to people to race further. Win and use THAT win to fuel more passion for the street to produce another outlandish STREET car to sell to fuel another racing victory...   THAT is Ferrari.

Mercedes built that one supercar way back in '54.  Then it became an econobox convertible.  Then it had nothing for a LOOOONG time. Until Mercedes got its hands on Chrysler for its cash to make the God ugly SLR. One and done. Then it got its hands on a Dodge platform to make a retro Gullwing.  Then it got jealous again of Ferrari, even though Mercedes has won in F1 many a time obliterating Ferrari, Ferrari still has ITS MYSTQUE game on!!!   Hence the fetish to outdo Ferrari with the AMG One.  And it seems nobody cares. Especially Ferrari.  Ferrari is as arrogant as ever.   

Ferrari LAFERRARI...  Who the phoque names a car after themselves?  

Ferrari that is who! 

Ferrarri has got some arrogant  ballz to do that.  And guess what?  The market place ACCEPTED the car and its name...why?

Because its FERRARI!!!  THAT IS WHY!!!

And then they go and create the world's most powerful naturally aspirated internal combustion ever. 6.5 liters of their very famous V12.   Even MORE famous than Mercedes' V12!!!

And they call THAT car the SUPERFAST! 

Yeah! LIKE NO SHYTE ITS SUPERFAST. AND FERRARI NAMES IT THAT!!!  

Because Ferrari has the following for them to do that kind of arrogant shyte! 

Mercedes also wants a piece of Porsche and the 911. They create the AMG GT.  But they want theirs to be a V8 and front engined. Why?  I dunno why?   Corvette envy too?

Bet they didnt see the C8 coming!!!

The problem is that to do shyte like that, it takes billions upon billions.

Porsche was their life to do 911s. They had to branch out to stay alive.  Parent company or whatever Volkswagen is to them lends a hand.    The thing is, the 911 has 60 years of development and very very very loyal following.

Mercedes is NOT a boutique sports car builder. Not anymore...  And even when it was like in '54. THAT car only lasted barely 9 years and 1 generation.  The SLS retro didnt last half of that and only one generation and they STOLE Dodge's development and used their platform...      The thing is...Mercedes has other, more lucrative markets to cater to. More important business cases to fulfill rather than a low volume....VERY low volume sports car that iits ilk is heading for extinction anyway as these types of cars have a dwindling following.  YOU said it yourself!   

The 911 was NEVER gonna be defeated by Mercedes with the AMG GT neither in performance nor in the market place...  In the short term, the AMG GT would have some successes, yes. But NEVER in the long run...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

67 years making the SL, they have a new SL for 2022 that shares no components with the current SL or current AMG GT.  So that’s how committed Mercedes is to sports cars, clean sheet design from ground up.

There will be a 2nd generation AMG GT, that is already in the works and it is hard top only.

Sure the 911 GT2 took the Nurburgring record back but the AMG One will slaughter it.  But this is good, Mercedes and Porsche compete with each other and push each other.  If not for Porsche then Mercedes would just build luxury barges.  Now I love me a big luxo cruiser, but I am glad Mercedes can make an S-class and and AMG GT and not have to pick one or the other.

And Diamler has made $9.5 billion in profits the last 6 months, there isn’t a money problem funding any new cars.  

[surreal1272]

8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

but the AMG One will slaughter it.

I’m guessing you are figuring if you mention it enough times, they’ll actually produce the damn thing?

 

Oh and for $2.7 million, it better the fastest on the ring. God forbid a just over $100K Vette (from an economy car company, according to you) make it sweat lol. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

13 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

67 years making the SL, they have a new SL for 2022 that shares no components with the current SL or current AMG GT.  So that’s how committed Mercedes is to sports cars, clean sheet design from ground up.

There will be a 2nd generation AMG GT, that is already in the works and it is hard top only.

Sure the 911 GT2 took the Nurburgring record back but the AMG One will slaughter it.  But this is good, Mercedes and Porsche compete with each other and push each other.  If not for Porsche then Mercedes would just build luxury barges.  Now I love me a big luxo cruiser, but I am glad Mercedes can make an S-class and and AMG GT and not have to pick one or the other.

And Diamler has made $9.5 billion in profits the last 6 months, there isn’t a money problem funding any new cars.  

If the AMG One ever gets produced and if it actually survives the company focus on change that is happening, I agree with @surreal1272 it better damn well beat everything. Yet the news is showing that mercedes is changing their roadmap fast and killing off the hybrid / ICE world fast.

 

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

So that’s how committed Mercedes is to sports cars

For the VAST portion of the SL's existence, it's been miles away from being a sports car. 

The parallels are so interesting;
• mercedes & Chevrolet both bring out a sports car in 1953.
• both are powered by inline 6s.
• MB has a hardtop, Chevy has a convertible.
• 3 years in: Chevrolet considers dropping the car, but insteads adds a V8 and a hardtop.
ª 3 years in: mercedes kills off their hardtop, kills off the 6-cyl and focuses on an anemic 4-banger to save money. I've never inspected a '53-55 up close, but I got a good look at a partially-disassembled '59 and it was cheap crap in every way. If this was a halo car, it's no wonder it took MB 35 years to gain any market traction.
 

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

I’m guessing you are figuring if you mention it enough times, they’ll actually produce the damn thing?

 

Oh and for $2.7 million, it better the fastest on the ring. God forbid a just over $100K Vette (from an economy car company, according to you) make it sweat lol. 

I have always said that Cadillac should build a performance car above the Corvette.  Maybe not $3 million but how about $200,000?

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, David said:

If the AMG One ever gets produced and if it actually survives the company focus on change that is happening, I agree with @surreal1272 it better damn well beat everything. Yet the news is showing that mercedes is changing their roadmap fast and killing off the hybrid / ICE world fast.

 

AMG One is supposed to start deliveries this year.

I did read today Mercedes wants 50% of their line to be electric by 2025, so they are accelerating that push.

[oldshurst442]

October 26, 2021

 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

 

[smk4565]

On 8/24/2021 at 7:40 PM, oldshurst442 said:

October 26, 2021

 

 

I hope they reveal with some track times.

[oldshurst442]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a37398206/corvette-z06-nurburgring-lap-attempt-foiled-tesla-and-bmw-crashes/

 

 

[oldshurst442]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a28197754/chevrolet-corvette-c7-nurburgring-lap-time-jim-mero-interview/

 

JM: I was three minutes behind him. Within five seconds, through the Stefan Bellof esses, it went from perfectly dry to almost putting me into the guardrail. Our objective was to beat the [991-generation Porsche 911] Carrera S, which did a 7:37.9. Back then, the fast-lap opportunity was the last lap of the day, and [the track] gave each company who requested it one lap a week.

R&T: But those chances were rained out.

JM: Yep. But somebody canceled on a Friday, so it was last lap, last day, last everything. No pressure. I got a little overanxious… I mean, I was hauling ass right up until I got through Wehrseifen. I dropped two wheels there and then made the mortal sin of thinking, "Now I have, what, maybe four or five minutes to make up that second I just lost?" I started overdriving the car. At Brünnchen, I put all four off, and I lost another two seconds.

R&T: That was a 7:39. Because it didn’t beat the Porsche, GM wouldn’t publish the lap time?

JM: I tried to convince them, and they just decided to punt.

R&T: You went back to Germany the next fall with a Z06. What happened?

JM: The fall is the wrong time to be there. There are times the dew point is so low, it won’t rain for a week and the track will still be half wet.

R&T: That’s when you crashed, right?

JM: Yeah. It was our first day with the Z06 on the Nürburgring. We had just started dialing in the MagneRide calibration. After that, I overlaid the data of the lap before [the crash] on top of that of the next lap, and I didn’t do anything different. All we could surmise was something got spilled on the track between the two laps.

R&T: That was that for 2014. You went back in spring of 2015 with another Z06.

JM: We just said, “Let’s put the 100-octane calibration in the car and see where we’re at.” That’s when we ran a 7:10.

R&T: Why was that time never publicized?

JM: Because we didn’t have this 100-octane calibration available for sale at that time—it still needed to be validated. They didn’t want to go forward with the lap.

R&T: But that calibration was eventually offered to the public. Why not show off the lap then?

JM: A marketing guy said, “Oh, nobody cares about it.” They said, “They’re going to want to know how the car ran without the 100-octane cal.” I said, “They’ll never know that, because we never ran it.” Unfortunately, at that point, it was like talking to a wall.

 

 

[oldshurst442]

7:10 for a 2015 Corvette Z06.  Unofficial time...

Not too shabby for 2015...

Not the fastest but one of THE fastest for lap times at the 'Ring  in a car of this class for 2015...

Corvette never went back.  Not with a Z07 packaged Z06, not even with a C7 ZR1.  

2015...

Mercedes GT R has a 2:10 time in 2017...

The car you like to shove in my face...

Mercedes has a hard on for Nürburgring.  That is why the Black Series has a 6:43 time...

Corvette's new fanbase might have a hard on for 'Ring lap times just like you...

Dont be surprised if the C8 Z06 trashes those times...and is actually faster than the Porsche GT2 RS's 6:38.  Waaaaay faster.   And like you said, that time is with a 'special' GT2 RS that has been emptied of the factory spec excess weight...  Because YOU made a big deal out of that...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

Is this the new Z06?  It appears to be.  It is said that General Motors posted this on Instagram today. 

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a37755096/this-is-the-c8-corvette-z06-undisguised/

 

 

I like it. I like it better than the Stingray.  I dont necessarily like this colour though, but I think if this is the new Z06, then its a smashingly good looking C8.  I want to see how it looks in yellow with C8R cues on it.  Interesting to see how much more aggressive the Z07 package would be on this as I dont see an aggressive rear spoiler nor aero canards and aero stuff in the front. 

Rear diffuser in the back?

Center exhaust?

Which Z06 will have all that?

Is this the "base" Z06?

Lots of questions still need to be answered and the questions above are still just about the exterior design and engineering choices and specs.  Engine choice is still a mystery.  

And with the C8 side air vents being what they are, and how they and up helping gulp in more air for the C8R and now with this reveal,  one visual I enjoy and appreciate very much on the Z06 is this cue:

 

Very vintage American muscle car what Chevy designers did there.  ? 

Very keeping the original inspiration of shark colour and loosely based looks.  ?

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

@oldshurst442 Yes that is the new Z06 per the official corvette Instagram page.

[oldshurst442]

This teaser came out 5-6 days ago so me posting it now seems kinda pointless since there is just 1 more day left  for the official reveal.  Here it is anyway:

 

[oldshurst442]

Its finally here!

670 HP.  The most powerful NATURALLY ASPIRATED V8.  And it will probably BE that way!    

460 ft/lbs of torque.  It is a track car after all. In contrast,  the LT6 5.5 liter revs to 8600 per minute.  And what a song it sings!  

 

 

[oldshurst442]

Z07 package

 

I prefer the regular Z06. And its my favorite (exterior wise) C8 to date.  In yellow or that tint coat red Chevy has

 I think Id prefer a 600 horse N/A LT1 with just about as much torques (600)  in my fictional Z06 bodied C8. 

This is where a Grand Sport would have been, I think.

Now, I think once more, an E-Ray Hybrid will take the place of the Grand Sport and will have about 600 hybrid horses in a Z06 body.  Ill gladly hypothetically take that then. 

[smk4565]

I think this will be really good on a track where you can keep that engine in the 4,000-8,000 rpm range.   The stuff they did here to make it better on a track, will probably make it worse in day to day driving, because it won't have the low end torque, but that isn't the point of this car either.  For track days I am sure this will deliver what the owners expect.  This more of a Ferrari-style or Honda V-tech style rev the hell out of it motor that you have to keep at high rpm, I wonder if Corvette fans will like that or not.  I assume GM is trying to attract new buyers with this strategy.

[balthazar]

10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think this will be really good on a track where you can keep that engine in the 4,000-8,000 rpm range.... because it won't have the low end torque,

You mean the 'no low-end torque' that squirts it 0-60 in 2.6-sec?

[smk4565]

53 minutes ago, balthazar said:

You mean the 'no low-end torque' that squirts it 0-60 in 2.6-sec?

A BMW M5 does that and it's a big sedan.  Lots of things can go fast in a straight line now.   The Z06 has 10 less lb-ft than the Stingray, and at a higher RPM, that is what I meant about Z06 being more for the track than the road.   That being said, on a track 0-60 doesn't really matter, because you aren't doing it, the 60-120 mph and 100-150 mph pulls are what matter more, and I would assume this engine up in the 5-8,000 rpm range will be really good in track environments.

Still waiting on that Nurburgring lap time on this one.

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

I wonder if Corvette fans will like that or not.

Yeah they will!

You are forgetting that 

1. The Corvette in general has had a LOYAL fan base TRACKING the car since the late 1950s...

2. The TRACK oriented Z06 model has had a LOYAL fan base TRACKING the car BECAUSE of the Corvette Racing program since the C5.   The LOYAL fans, as much as they love that muscle car low end grunt of their Corvettes, they DO track their Corvette and with THIS engine, NOW they finally match the handling of a race car with the RIGHT and SUITED engine for tracking.   The LS7 revved to 7000 RPM.  They applauded that. They complained about the C7 Z06 BECAUSE it didnt REV that high and it wasnt N/A...

3. Corvette picked up quite a FEW new fans along the way with the C8.  Fans that come from Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren.  They LOVE the PUSHROD muscle car engine. But now, with this new LT6.  They will feel right at home.  

So yeah!

I dunno why you would wanna try to find negatives.  There are none.  Not with the 460 ft/lbs of torque. Not with the choice of using this engine. 

But...it aint a German car therefore it wont impress you. Like ever.

 

[oldshurst442]

25 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

A BMW M5 does that and it's a big sedan.

Not that Im into numbers. Im not. Not that the BMW M5 Comp aint fast, because it is. ESPECIALLY like what you say. Its big. Its got 4 doors.  But it does NOT make 0-60 in 2.6 seconds.  It makes that metric in 2.8 seconds.

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a36960485/2021-bmw-m5-competition-by-the-numbers/

 

2021 BMW M5 Competition

C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 2.8 sec
100 mph: 6.7 sec
1/4-Mile: 10.9 sec @ 128 mph
130 mph: 11.2 sec
150 mph: 15.8 sec
 

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

But there are 2 things with this. 

1.  Any given Sunday and these numbers will vary.  

2. But most IMPORTANTLY, Car and Driver did the testing on the M5 Comp and THAT number is the best number THEY got for it on THAT particular day. Could be faster on another day. Could be slower. 

But 2.8 seconds is SLOWER than 2.6.

BUT...

Let us NOT forget that the 2.6 seconds comes from GM.  GM ALWAYS gives us the performance numbers that are not THE fastest of what the car could actually do.   That 2.6 second 0-60 time GM gave us is a CONSERVATIVE number.  A number that any dolt driving the car could achieve.  

GM told us that the C8 Z51 did 0-60 in less than 3 seconds. 2.9 seconds they later said when they first released the C8.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-c8-corvettes-0-60-mph-quarter-mile-times/

According to Chevrolet, the official zero-to-60-mph time for Z51 cars like the one pictured here is 2.9 seconds,

 

But CarandDriver when they did test it, got it to do 2.8 seconds on that particular day

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29458414/2020-chevy-corvette-zero-to-60-mph-tested/

 

and Road and Track in 2.7 seconds...

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a32105614/stock-c8-mid-engine-corvette-hits-0-60-in-2-7-seconds/

 

All to say that we could SAFELY say that the 0-60 times for the Z06 from CarandDriver and RoadandTrack could shave another second or two from what GM tells us the Z06 does...

 

You really cannot NOT  diss an American car, can you? 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

37 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yeah they will!

You are forgetting that 

1. The Corvette in general has had a LOYAL fan base TRACKING the car since the late 1950s...

2. The TRACK oriented Z06 model has had a LOYAL fan base TRACKING the car BECAUSE of the Corvette Racing program since the C5.   The LOYAL fans, as much as they love that muscle car low end grunt of their Corvettes, they DO track their Corvette and with THIS engine, NOW they finally match the handling of a race car with the RIGHT and SUITED engine for tracking.   The LS7 revved to 7000 RPM.  They applauded that. They complained about the C7 Z06 BECAUSE it didnt REV that high and it wasnt N/A...

3. Corvette picked up quite a FEW new fans along the way with the C8.  Fans that come from Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren.  They LOVE the PUSHROD muscle car engine. But now, with this new LT6.  They will feel right at home.  

So yeah!

I dunno why you would wanna try to find negatives.  There are none.  Not with the 460 ft/lbs of torque. Not with the choice of using this engine. 

But...it aint a German car therefore it wont impress you. Like ever.

 

I think Corvette fans will like it, but funny that they went with an Italian or Japanese style high rev NA engine when for years Corvette fans bashed that same thing.  The Germans are about twin turbos, at least recently, BMW was making an 8400 rpm NA V10 16 years ago, and I don't remember Corvette fans calling for an engine like that in 2005.

Lamborghini sales are up 20% this year, on pace for their all time sales record.   So they aren't hurting or losing business. 

[oldshurst442]

8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think Corvette fans will like it, but funny that they went with an Italian or Japanese style high rev NA engine when for years Corvette fans bashed that same thing.  The Germans are about twin turbos, at least recently, BMW was making an 8400 rpm NA V10 16 years ago, and I don't remember Corvette fans calling for an engine like that in 2005.

Lamborghini sales are up 20% this year, on pace for their all time sales record.   So they aren't hurting or losing business. 

My my...

You are very offensive against the Z06 and very defensive...  

Why? 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

26 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Not that Im into numbers. Im not. Not that the BMW M5 Comp aint fast, because it is. ESPECIALLY like what you say. Its big. Its got 4 doors.  But it does NOT make 0-60 in 2.6 seconds.  It makes that metric in 2.8 seconds.

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a36960485/2021-bmw-m5-competition-by-the-numbers/

 

2021 BMW M5 Competition

C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 2.8 sec
100 mph: 6.7 sec
1/4-Mile: 10.9 sec @ 128 mph
130 mph: 11.2 sec
150 mph: 15.8 sec

The M5 CS is faster than the Competition, it does it in 2.6 seconds.  But tons of stuff is fast 0-60 and EV's will make 0-60 a meaningless number because everything will be fast in a straight line.  So what will matter is handling, brakes, grip, aero, the stuff that actually makes you fast on a track.  It is just hard for the marketing people to advertise grip and handling because there isn't an easy to understand number like 0-60 to use as a measuring stick.

I think this C8 offers a crap ton of performance per dollar, in that regard it is an amazing value.  Chevy is comparing it to super cars, which is a loose term, so sure you can call it supercar performance, but there is a lot of cars with supercar performance now too.  Mark Reuss said in the video they want to target BMW, Mercedes and Porsche, maybe he means on a performance level, because the Corvette isn't there on a luxury level or dealership level.  But if he is just talking performance, then they better bring it.

Also a lot of "race car" talk on the promo video, "race car" can be another ambiguous term, because if I hear race car, I think Formula 1 car, and no road car even holds a candle to an F1 car.  They are over selling a bit here, but I get it they are trying to get people excited about it, I'm sure it's a thrilling car to drive, but it isn't a race car.

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The M5 CS is faster than the Competition

I literarily posted a link...

And all of a sudden, 0-60 in 2.6 seconds is not fast enough for you.

Get the phoque out of here!  

[smk4565]

4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

My my...

You are very offensive against the Z06 and very defensive...  

Why? 

 

 

Not defensive at all.  I like the idea of a DOHC V8, if I were GM I would have put twin turbos on it and given it all wheel drive.  And I might have made it 3.99 liter to skirt the displacement taxes in international markets that they want to compete in, but given the Corvette's price advantage to other mid-engine sports cars, maybe the displacement tax wouldn't be that big a deal and they could just roll with the 5.5 V8.

My car has a 5.5 liter DOHC V8 and I like it a lot, I am sure a 5.5 DOHC V8 in the Corvette will be great there too.  It sounds good in the video.  

Although to be clear, I wouldn't buy any of these track focused sports cars, I'd rather have a Mercedes SL than an AMG GT or a 911 GT3 RS, give me luxury and comfort over track performance.  

5 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I literarily posted a link...

And all of a sudden, 0-60 in 2.6 seconds is not fast enough for you.

Get the phoque out of here!  

It's plenty fast.  But the M5 comes in standard, Competition, and CS.  The CS is what I was referencing as it is the top M5.

But on a track, I'm sure the Z06 will easily beat an M5 because of weight, grip, aero, etc.  The M5 CS is faster than a Stingray around a tack, but I would expect the Z06 to make that up.  A Tesla Model X can do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, I am sure that is garbage on a track, probably garbage on a country back road, so that is why I think straight line speed isn't really going to matter anymore, because everything is getting fast in a straight line.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Lots of things can go fast in a straight line now.

You stated a 'lack of low-end torque' meant it would be worse on the street than the Stingray, but it's quicker there, too.

26 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

if I were GM I would have put twin turbos on it

It's already in the engineering phase.
Z06 is not the end of the performance line, despite you claiming the base Corvette was all there would be.

[Robert Hall]

8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 

Also a lot of "race car" talk on the promo video, "race car" can be another ambiguous term, because if I hear race car, I think Formula 1 car, and no road car even holds a candle to an F1 car.  They are over selling a bit here, but I get it they are trying to get people excited about it, I'm sure it's a thrilling car to drive, but it isn't a race car.

Not ambiguous at all...when they talk race car, they mean the C8R.  Pretty effin' obvious.  No one is comparing a street car to an F1 car.  But you are so obtuse, you can't see that.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Robert Hall

[surreal1272]

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

My car has a 5.5 liter DOHC V8 and I like it a lot, I am sure a 5.5 DOHC V8 in the Corvette will be great there too.

Sorry but the only thing those engines have in common is the "5.5L". Everything else is literally apples to oranges between the two.

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Mark Reuss said in the video they want to target BMW, Mercedes and Porsche, maybe he means on a performance level, because the Corvette isn't there on a luxury level or dealership level.  But if he is just talking performance, then they better bring it.

Good grief. Of course they are talking about performance. Stop trying to take passive piss on GM just because it's a Chevy that will run down cars costing three times the dough while having a fraction of the long term reliability. You knew, from the start, what they were talking about.

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

because if I hear race car, I think Formula 1 car

Then might I suggest expanding your race car knowledge? Again, no one had that misconception of a thought other than the resident Mercedes fan looking to take more pot shots at a domestic.

[surreal1272]

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think Corvette fans will like it, but funny that they went with an Italian or Japanese style high rev NA engine when for years Corvette fans bashed that same thing.  The Germans are about twin turbos, at least recently, BMW was making an 8400 rpm NA V10 16 years ago, and I don't remember Corvette fans calling for an engine like that in 2005.

Lamborghini sales are up 20% this year, on pace for their all time sales record.   So they aren't hurting or losing business. 

By that same token, German fanboys like yourself touted those high revving engines while slamming the push rod origins of the Vette. Now that they are moving towards a more modern setup for it, you try to flip the script by saying "Well, Vette fans talked smack about then" while ignoring your own levels of smack talk about push rod engines from GM. And I'm sorry, but I (and anyone with common sense) will take 670HP N/A track oriented demon over some twin turbo driven nonsense that will add to the grenade factor before you hit 75K miles.

 

BTW, Lamborghini sales are up because of an SUV being in their lineup now. Last I checked, the Urus doesn't compete with the Vette so their original point stands.

Edited October 27, 2021 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

That being said, on a track 0-60 doesn't really matter

Funny. It mattered to you in the past whenever it suited you. (see any Tesla thread)

[surreal1272]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think this will be really good on a track where you can keep that engine in the 4,000-8,000 rpm range.   The stuff they did here to make it better on a track, will probably make it worse in day to day driving, because it won't have the low end torque, but that isn't the point of this car either.  For track days I am sure this will deliver what the owners expect.  This more of a Ferrari-style or Honda V-tech style rev the hell out of it motor that you have to keep at high rpm, I wonder if Corvette fans will like that or not.  I assume GM is trying to attract new buyers with this strategy.

Maybe you should read this article, detailing some of that ride quality you think won't exist because of the engine. Judging by your normal level of non-researched criticisms here, it should be very informative for you and help you see where you are wrong regarding the ride quality.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-chevrolet-corvette-z06-c8-first-ride-review/ 

[ccap41]

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Then might I suggest expanding your race car knowledge? Again, no one had that misconception of a thought other than the resident Mercedes fan looking to take more pot shots at a domestic.

He's just sour that his beloved Mercedes is going to lose the F1 crown this year to Max in a Honda-powered RedBull car. 

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

By that same token, German fanboys like yourself touted those high revving engines while slamming the push rod origins of the Vette. Now that they are moving towards a more modern setup for it, you try to flip the script by saying "Well, Vette fans talked smack about then" while ignoring your own levels of smack talk about push rod engines from GM. And I'm sorry, but I (and anyone with common sense) will take 670HP N/A track oriented demon over some twin turbo driven nonsense that will add to the grenade factor before you hit 75K miles.

 

BTW, Lamborghini sales are up because of an SUV being in their lineup now. Last I checked, the Urus doesn't compete with the Vette so their original point stands.

BMW did the high rev engine thing, Audi and Mercedes never really did, and they all went heavy on turbos 10 years ago and are going into electrified now.  They don’t sit still with one idea, they keep advancing.

Lamborghini had the Urus the past 2 years also. Sales are up because the existing models are up.

4 hours ago, ccap41 said:

He's just sour that his beloved Mercedes is going to lose the F1 crown this year to Max in a Honda-powered RedBull car. 

Mercedes still has the team lead.  Max is a phenomenal driver.  We’ll see what happens in the final few races, Red Bull and Honda brought the fight this year, Mercedes biggest challenge in 8 years.

7 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Not ambiguous at all...when they talk race car, they mean the C8R.  Pretty effin' obvious.  No one is comparing a street car to an F1 car.  But you are so obtuse, you can't see that.

But you could have a Miata race series and a stock Ferrari would smoke that race car.  A CR8 compared to an F1 car is not even close.  

[surreal1272]

15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

BMW did the high rev engine thing, Audi and Mercedes never really did, and they all went heavy on turbos 10 years ago and are going into electrified now.  They don’t sit still with one idea, they keep advancing.

And missing that point by a mile. The point is that the Vette did it without the turbos whereas that was the only choice the Germans had or were capable of doing at the time. Furthermore, you act like they are the only ones advancing while commenting on a thread about a MID-ENGINE Corvette that also has hybrid plans because duh, they don't sit still with one idea. Maybe you missed it, but the company that owns the Vette is also going electrified. 

[ccap41]

19 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes still has the team lead.  Max is a phenomenal driver.  We’ll see what happens in the final few races, Red Bull and Honda brought the fight this year, Mercedes biggest challenge in 8 years.

Nobody gives a FCK about the manufacturer championship. It's all about the driver championship. 

[surreal1272]

25 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But you could have a Miata race series and a stock Ferrari would smoke that race car.  A CR8 compared to an F1 car is not even close.

Again, missing the point with your apples to oranges comparisons. That Miata does not race in the same series as the Vette any damn way. The point here is that IT IS BUILT FROM A ROAD SERIES RACING VETTE. 

 

Show me the Miata or Ferrari in this race. Maybe you missed where F1 racing isn't the only high speed racing on the planet earth.

https://www.imsa.com/weathertech/results/

26 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

A CR8 compared to an F1 car is not even close.  

And again, only YOU are comparing the Vette to F1 cars because you don't think it's actually from a race car. This is from the road series racing Vette. Familiarize yourself.

Edited October 27, 2021 by surreal1272

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

 

But you could have a Miata race series and a stock Ferrari would smoke that race car.  A CR8 compared to an F1 car is not even close.  

Who said anything about comparing the CR-8 to an F1 car??????  You’ve truly lost the plot.  Stop acting obtuse.   You do realize there are many forms of racing besides F1?  The Corvette has competed and won in various sports car series for years...

Edited October 27, 2021 by Robert Hall

[surreal1272]

So (after yet another page wasted on German car fans), I just want to say this. This is only the beginning for the C8 and for once, I am looking forward to seeing what they put out next.

[smk4565]

All I am saying is in GM’s promo video they talk a lot about race cars, super cars, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche are mentioned by name, the best of Europe are mentioned.  If GM’s marketplace machine is saying that, then the car better back it up.

And I imagine a turbo and hybrid versions are in the works, but I would hope it isn’t too long a delay, because the aftermarket crowd will turbo or supercharge the current Stingray I’m sure, GM is missing out by being able to sell that direct from factory.

[ccap41]

Has the C8R not backed it up already? 

Some person worrying about delays ... *AMG One*

[surreal1272]

48 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

All I am saying is in GM’s promo video they talk a lot about race cars, super cars, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche are mentioned by name, the best of Europe are mentioned.  If GM’s marketplace machine is saying that, then the car better back it up.

And I imagine a turbo and hybrid versions are in the works, but I would hope it isn’t too long a delay, because the aftermarket crowd will turbo or supercharge the current Stingray I’m sure, GM is missing out by being able to sell that direct from factory.

And all I’m saying that you need to expand your racing horizons. The Vette has just as much racing cred as the Germans. 
 

And I’m with ccap. That’s some big talk about delays given your worship over the oft delayed AMG One. The Vette will be just fine and the next bump will come soon, just in time for a fresh new round of excuses from the German car fan club. 

[smk4565]

4 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

And all I’m saying that you need to expand your racing horizons. The Vette has just as much racing cred as the Germans. 
 

And I’m with ccap. That’s some big talk about delays given your worship over the oft delayed AMG One. The Vette will be just fine and the next bump will come soon, just in time for a fresh new round of excuses from the German car fan club. 

Formula 1 is the pinnacle of racing.  LeMans prototype is like college football compared to the NFL.  Everything  else is like JV High School ball.

[oldshurst442]

 

 

 

 

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Formula 1 is the pinnacle of racing.  LeMans prototype is like college football compared to the NFL.  Everything  else is like JV High School ball.

That comment shows how little you know of motorsports.   Also, the C8R doesn't even race in the prototype class..  it races in the GTLMPro class in FIA WEC.  Learn something about motorsports then come back.. (I’ve been a motorsports enthusiast for over 40 years and know a thing or two about the various series).  Time to block you, no value in seeing your pointless posts anymore.   

Edited October 27, 2021 by Robert Hall