Buick "upscale, elegant brand"

[wildcat]

Buick's General Manager, Steve Shannon, has commented on Buick's future, in light of recent reports that Pontiac is considering an all-RWD line-up. To read the article, which appeared on wardsauto.com June 7th, 2006, click here. One of the statements made in the piece is "The new LaCrosse Super will include redesigned front and rear fascias, as well as other premium interior upgrades." But still no pictures yet.

Edited June 8, 2006 by wildcat

[roopull]

Buick is one of the bright spots in GM's line-up. They have a clear definition of what they are & decent brand identity.

One problem, though... why Cadillac AND Buick?

[Paolino]

Buick is one of the bright spots in GM's line-up.  They have a clear definition of what they are & decent brand identity. 

One problem, though... why Cadillac AND Buick?

While Buick is working its way upscale, Cadillac is working it's way into ultra luxury territory. It's not ready for it now, but in a few years, it'll start dipping into new grounds with mind-blowing vehicles.

[roopull]

While Buick is working its way upscale, Cadillac is working it's way into ultra luxury territory.  It's not ready for it now, but in a few years, it'll start dipping into new grounds with mind-blowing vehicles.

I've heard that before & I hope you're right. While 90% of what Chevy, Pontiac & Saturn make could induce a coma, Buick & Caddy are stunning. I love the feline-like elegance of the newer Buicks & the edgey Caddies are just drop dead gorgeous. Both rank well in reliabiltiy, too... specifically Buick. I'm just not sure there's room for both.

Here's the thing. We keep hearing that Buick wants to be GM's Lexus. Fine... that's great. Is Caddy wanting to be GM's Mercedes or are they wanting to go even higher? See, Lexus has long been gunning for Mercedes (remember the original S-Class cloning Lexus LS?) Lexus is a moving target & it's moving upscale. If Buick intends to follow them & they're following Mercedes... that's going to push Caddy where??? Rolls Royce & Bentley territory?

[CaddyXLR-V]

Buick is not going after Lexus, just Lexus like attributes. Buick is not going way upscale, maybe a little, but no where near the same class that BMW/Mercedes/Lexus compete in.

[Paolino]

Buick is not going after Lexus, just Lexus like attributes. Buick is not going way upscale, maybe a little, but no where near the same class that BMW/Mercedes/Lexus compete in.

Well, who then will Buick compete with? Acura wants to go more upscale to where Lexus is now. Lexus wants to go more upscale to take on the higher end of Mercedes.

[Cananopie]

Here's the thing.  We keep hearing that Buick wants to be GM's Lexus.  Fine...  that's great. 

I think that line spoken now at least a year or 2 ago I believe was blown out of proportion. Buick is still going for affordable luxury. You're hard pressed to find a Buick over 40k while Caddys are now up in the 75k range. There is most obviously a hierarchy between the two and there always has been since they both were in General Motors together.

Especially with almost the whole Cadillac lineup now offered with a "V" series option Cadillac stays well above Buick. I believe the true muddle comes with Saturn and Pontiac considering Saturn is headed very much to where Oldsmobile should be today, which is just a step down from Buick. The whole reason of ousting Oldsmobile in the first place was because of the market constraints and that Pontiac, Buick, and Olds were too close.

Buick has definitely moved up to be on average #2 in the GM price hierarchy and luxury hierarchy so it isn't confused with Pontiacs or Saturns. But Pontiac and Saturn are now what is confusing. 5 years ago... maybe even as short as 2 years ago Saturn was a brand that was most definitely below Pontiac on this hierarchy, but very recently Saturn has been offering vehicles above Pontiac leaving Pontiac a pretty cheap excitement division, especially since Saturn doesn't mind creating their own excitement (Sky in particular) the Aura, and the Astra. So really Saturn and Pontiac are the ones butting heads, not Buick and Caddy.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Well, who then will Buick compete with?  Acura wants to go more upscale to where Lexus is now.  Lexus wants to go more upscale to take on the higher end of Mercedes.

Well Cadillac can't move too far upscale, the bulk of the luxury market is all $35k-$70k. Buicks will be more like cruisers, and not emphasize handling like Cadillac. I would say Buick would be luxury without the sport, while Pontiac has would focus on performance, and Cadillac would be both.

[Paolino]

Well Cadillac can't move too far upscale, the bulk of the luxury market is all $35k-$70k. Buicks will be more like cruisers, and not emphasize handling like Cadillac. I would say Buick would be luxury without the sport, while Pontiac has would focus on performance, and Cadillac would be both.

Yes, but then Buick will NEVER get a thumbs up in the handling department if they're to remain like cruisers. Critics will forever be, well, criticizing!

[loki]

Buick has definitely moved up to be on average #2 in the GM price hierarchy and luxury hierarchy so it isn't confused with Pontiacs or Saturns. But Pontiac and Saturn are now what is confusing. 5 years ago... maybe even as short as 2 years ago Saturn was a brand that was most definitely below Pontiac on this hierarchy, but very recently Saturn has been offering vehicles above Pontiac leaving Pontiac a pretty cheap excitement division, especially since Saturn doesn't mind creating their own excitement (Sky in particular) the Aura, and the Astra. So really Saturn and Pontiac are the ones butting heads, not Buick and Caddy.

pontiac has to become the "american performance", Saturn was intended to be a eurofighter, right? so pontiac has history to draw from, and saturn has it's future to keep in mind. yes, they seem to be competing in some ways, but like most of people here, i think, the public wouldn't really cross-shop the two.

[wildcat]

Why is it that we hear about dealers' complaints and pressure that led to vehicles such as the Torrent or the G5 and, in the future, Chevy and Saab Lambda crossovers (to go along with the Saturn, GMC, and Buick ones), but Buick doesn't seem to have the clout to get the Chinese GL-8 minivan instead of the Terraza, or the Chinese LaCrosse exterior instead of the NA one. Or to lobby for a Buick Excelle for NA.

I'm not asking for a fourth or fifth copy of something rebadged as a Buick, I'm asking for superior Buick products, period. Cherrypicking the best from Chinese Buicks for potential offering in NA. Globalizing the Buick product.

Also, I don't think it's a simple line of saying Buick should get luxury, Pontiac gets performance. Buicks, in general, should be powerful, substantial, and, yes, luxurious and comfortable. Or, as Paolino wrote, Buick will forever get criticized for non-class leading engines and powertrains.

Especially now, if Buick is channeled with Pontiac and GMC, it should have as much "say" or "voice" as the reps of Pontiac and GMC have. Or is this what Wagoner meant when he said, "All brands are not created equal"? (Yet Bob Lutz only a few years back said "Buick is junior only to Cadillac." Remember?)

[ehaase]

Did anyone notice that the article stated that Pontiac will not abandon FWD?

Isn't the Buick Excelle basically the same thing as the Suzuki Forenza? I wouldn't want that sold in the U.S. But I would like to see the return of the Riviera and (I am sure I am alone here) the return of the Estate Wagon, a traditional station wagon for those who don't want an SUV or crossover.

[wildcat]

You're not alone about the Buick Estate Wagon. I had an '83 Electra Estate Wagon (loved it) and a '92 Roadmaster Estate Wagon. Honestly, I think Buick should offer a traditional large wagon. Who else does? It would match Buick's character and not overlap another GM product.

Curiously, I stood on a street corner in Chicago today as a Suzuki Forenza was turning, and I said to myself, "That's a Buick Excelle in China." It doesn't have to be that vehicle, but I think GM is limiting Buick by only giving it large vehicles. In my opinion, it doesn't have to be large to be a Buick, any more than it has to be large to be a Cadillac or Mercedes or Lexus.