Chevy Lambda info

[sciguy_0504]

The new edition of Motor Trend says a Chevy Lambda will be rushed to market due to sliding BOF SUV sales. Apparently, it will pretty much be a discontented Outlook with Chevy-specific front and rear facias. They showed a rendering and it reminds me of the Cobalt/G5 disaster. Can anyone confirm this?

[jbartley]

The new edition of Motor Trend says a Chevy Lambda will be rushed to market due to sliding BOF SUV sales.  Apparently, it will pretty much be a discontented Outlook with Chevy-specific front and rear facias.  They showed a rendering and it reminds me of the Cobalt/G5 disaster.  Can anyone confirm this?

BOF?

[Matt276]

Based on frame???

[sciguy_0504]

Body on frame. Like Trailblazer, Envoy, Explorer, 4Runner...traditional SUVs.

[Ur_pimp]

a chevy lambda seems very likely considering the rainer is being phased out by the Enclave, and the envoy by the Acadia. It wouldnt even have to be ground breaking, considering the current trailblazer is pathetic. A rebaged outlook, with diffrent head and tail lights would be a major improvement.

[Achelous]

Welcome to Rebadge City, population 1,000,001.

[buyacargetacheck]

Great idea. Chevrolet will sell as many in a day as Saturn can all year.

[CSpec]

Check Ted's code page. :AH-HA_wink:

[sciguy_0504]

Check Ted's code page.  :AH-HA_wink:

I looked but I have to be missing something. Ted has three Lambda projects in red, which means cancelled (says the key). The only other Lambda project I saw that was not in red was a Chevy Lambda minivan. Winky-wink?

[cmattson]

I checked out Ted's code page ( http://www3.sympatico.ca/tedkrygier/future.htm ).

The GMT965 is halfway-mysterious; but otherwise I just don't see a Chevrolet Lambda-SUV there (or is that the idea -> there isn't one)? It's not like MotorTrend is out-front on a lot. Personally, I just don't see the need for one. Why spend your resources to further dilute the Outlook/Arcadia/Enclave's? Chevrolet aleady has the Equinox, Tahoe and Suburban; how much more can they need? How about a competitive minivan? Perhaps a mini-Avalanche to take on the Ridgeline? I'd give either one of those two a higher priority than a Chevrolet Lambda SUV.

[Cadillacfan]

This is another example of GM surrendering to its whiney dealers. Chevy does not need any more SUVs and GM does not need any more rebadges.

[red]

No, this is an example of poor planning. The Lambda platform has been in the works for quite some time, smarter engineering and market research would have found the humongous potential in crossovers, not wagons with pickup beds.

This would be a giant step back for GM. They are better off waiting until they can get a proper Chevy fullsize crossover, and suffer the poor planning.

Otherwise, it'll be another repeat in their business cycle, with weak-selling derivative products that go stale in the market quickly, diffusing budget for future programs and continuing the need for badge engineering to meet cost targets and introduce something to a segment just so they have something in the segment. Blech.

[z28luvr01]

IIRC, our insiders have told us that there's no Chevy Lambda in the works, and that a MCE for the Trailblazer is on the way for '08. Of course things may have changed, but we've been misled by Motor Trend before.

[dford]

Chevy should have had the Lambda in the 1st place - not GMC. Let them have it and they'll easily sell more than all the other 3 combined. And give Chevy a REAL minivan while you're at it!!

[ehaase]

Read comments by AH-HA and Hudson in this thread - http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32201

[DetroitNut90]

I think that it's a good thing for GMC to get a crossover-something different from a plain truck, and since the crossover market is growing faster than the traditional SUV market. It also gives GMC a model that could attract people who wouldn't have considered GMC before. Variety is the spice of life, after all.

But I do agree, GM needs a competitive minivan.

[evok]

Check Ted's code page.  :AH-HA_wink:

There is an item wrong actually a couple.

Edited June 8, 2006 by evok

[KillFort]

Back before all the unfortunate drama, AH-HA once mentioned a possible Chevy Lambda... this was several months ago.

I have heard similar stories from other sources.

[jbartley]

This is another example of GM surrendering to its whiney dealers.  Chevy does not need any more SUVs and GM does not need any more rebadges.

i so agree with you! Brands can't have exclusive products if everyone else is whining that they want it too!

i think a SHORTENED lambda for Chevy could be cool?

that would put it at roughly trailblazer size, and not compete with the bigger lambda's? ANY ideas?

[cmattson]

So, let me round out my earlier list:

For people-movers, Chevrolet would have (by the end of all this):

Malibu Maxx,

Equinox

Trailblazer

A yet un-named Lambda Crossover

A yet un-named Lambda Minivan

Tahoe

Suburban

The 4-door pickups & the Avalanche

Seems like a bit much, doesn't it? And that's before you dilute it by bringing in the other GM brands. Gee, it's no wonder GM is stretched for cash. You could at least justify (somewhat) a Lambda Crossover for Chevy if you killed the TB; but I think the decision makers at GM can't bring themselves to do that to a high-profit vehicle with sales northward of 250k/year.

[Darc Requiem]

I would gripe about GM caving in to dealers but this story out of Motor Trend. MT hasn't been the most reliable source for new as of late. In fact, most of their "news" has been nothing but rumor as of late. I will wait until a more reliable source reports this information.

[boblutzfan]

I hope Chevy does not build a Lambda CUV. Now a Lambda based minivan sounds like a great idea. GM needs to have a minivan in this still very popular segment.

[dford]

Chevy needs them all - they all serve a different customer.

BTW Toyota has:

Matrix

RAV4

Highlander

4Runner

Sequoia

Siena

4 door Tacoma

and in the same showroom the Scion xA and xB

and Ford has:

Focus wagon

Escape

Freestyle

Freestar

Edge

Explorer

Explorer Sporttrac

Expedition and EL

Still haven't figured out why Ford and Chevy can't build competitive minivans, seems like they would be able to

[!!!TED!!!]

Er...I had forgot to update the list, so it didn't have what Cspec was alluding to.

Take a look now.

And evok...

There is an item wrong actually a couple.

Wanna help fix it?

[Imaj]

Lambda will be the new GMT360! Next will be a Saab Lambda!

[longtooth]

I looked but I have to be missing something.  Ted has three Lambda projects in red, which means cancelled (says the key).  The only other Lambda project I saw that was not in red was a Chevy Lambda minivan.  Winky-wink?

So, can anyone say, with any degree of certainty whether or not the "Upchucker" gets the fork stuck in it within the next 6 or 7 months?

Please, I have been saving a ceremonial fork for such an occasion.

Edited June 8, 2006 by longtooth

[VenSeattle]

WHY give Buick the Enclave and GMC the Acadia... and then turn around and rebadge a Saturn for Chevrolet???? WHY?!

I know I've said this before but quit making half baked mistakes and just fold Pontiac & GMC into Buick and give Chevrolet the Acadia:

Buick cars:

Compact RWD Sedan & Coupe - (former G5/G6 replacement)

Midsize RWD Sedan - (former Grand Prix replacement)

Epsilon II FWD/AWD (Lacrosse replacement to go aqainst ES350)

Large RWD sedan (Lucerne/Royaum replacement

Riviera coupe convertible (Former GTO replacement)

Wildcat roadster (Kappa II - Solstice replacement or current Solstice reskin)

Rendezvous (compact/midsize CUV - Torrent Theta replacmeent)

Enclave (Large CUV - Lambda)

GMC Truck names will transfer easily:

Yukon (XL; Denali) by Buick

Envoy (Denali) by Buick

Canyon - by Buick

Sierra (Denali) by Buick

Savana (Lambda minivan/fullsize van?) by Buick

All sold though one sales channel - under one brand - with a 4yr/50k warranty

Buick Grade: Premium - Powerful - Professional

----------------------------------------------------------

Bash this idea all you want... but it beats reinventing three brands and making stupid last minute desperate changes. GM should have designed 4 unique Lamda SUVs if they intended to do this. I hate logging into C&G to find out stupid GM decisions like this one. "We build Confusion" is correct.

[cmattson]

I'm with you on this Ven; GM doesn't need this vehicle for Chevrolet.

[jbartley]

i heard this is just wild fantasy speculation by motor trend.

that this was considered, but not approved.

[evok]

i heard this is just wild fantasy speculation by motor trend.

that this was considered, but not approved.

Hell does freeze over some times.

[cmattson]

First the G5, now this. 2 steps forward, 2 steps back. GM is saying the right things.. but actions speak louding than words, IMO.

[titan]

I know this is rumor and speculation, but it pisses me off. This is what's seriously wrong with GM. They make good product, and then whore it out to every brand under pressure from dealers. I can see Chevy having a Lambda, because it's the everyman's brand. GMC DID NOT NEED THE ACADIA. Especially when it shares showroom space with the Enclave (though, I STILL think BUICK should have stayed a standalone brand, and could support itself with the right lineup and FOCUS!). I can also see Saturn's justification for the Outlook. However, four Lambda SUVs are big time overkill. Also, GM still hasn't learned to go the extra mile and really make different cars/SUVS on the same platform. The Camry, ES350, Highlander, RX350, and Sienna share NO exterior or interior bits. They share a platform, some suspension pieces, and some powertrains. The G6, Aura, and Malibu is a good example of how to do it correctly. But that's an exception at GM.

[evok]

Er...I had forgot to update the list, so it didn't have what Cspec was alluding to.

Take a look now.

And evok...

Wanna help fix it?

Actually - your original list was derived from me. (you just are now aware of it)

But on a case by case basis I do not mind confirming or denying a thing or two.

Plausible Deniability!

[wildcat]

There was at least one source that said, basically, Chevrolet was to get one of everything everybody else is getting, even if they didn't want it!

evok: Any reaction to the suggestion by VenSeattle of folding Pontiac and GMC into Buick, making Buick "Premium - Powerful - Professional"

My opinion would be they'd never do it, because their attitude shows they care little about Buick. I would feel better about Buick's long-term viability within GM if they would talk about like they do other brands, or show they have a clue about what the Buick brand represents.

[usa1]

This is just another example of too many brand floating around GM. Just think the impact on GM could have been if the new Aura was the new Malibu and the new Outlook was the new Trailblazer. GM would get many more sales pushing these through Chevrolet than pushing them products through Saturn.

Mark

[dford]

titan,

GM has actually done the best job of the big 3 making unique cars from common platforms. Aside from the pickups and SUVs which are badge engineered with only minimal changes the rest of the cars pretty different style-wise.

Badge engineered cars:

Cobalt/G5

Uplander/Relay/Montana

Equinox/Torrent

But these cars are on common platforms but have different interior/exterior styles except radios/HVAC:

Malibu/G6/Aura

Impala/Grand Prix/LaCrosse

Lucerne/DTS

Solstice/Sky

CTS/STS/SRX

Corvette/XLR

Cobalt/HHR

As far as the Lambdas go, the Acadia and the Outlook seem very similar, but the Enclave has a unique style

Toyota and Honda go further than GM by having unique drivetrains in many models on a common platform, but even they are consolidating.

Ford and Chrysler do the least differentiating between nameplates.

[radioactivesob]

I don't see a problem with GM giving Chevy a Lambda based SUV. They could use the Lambda to phase out the Trailblazer and bring a new SUV based on the H3 to market for people who want to true off roader.

The beauty of it all is that no one cross shops Chevrolet and Saturn, and Chevy by all rights, should have every platform except for Cadillac's Sigma. If you need proof just look at each division's sales. Chevy is clearly in the driver's seat with the rest of GM along for the ride.

[cavalier36]

Lambda will be the new GMT360! Next will be a Saab Lambda!

hate to tell you this but a Saab lambda is already in the works, it will be badged as a Saab 9-6.. they were going to base it on the subaru tribeca, but that program was scrapped when GM sold its share in Fuji.. the new Saab crossover will be based on the lambda platform, although it will feature diffrent front and rear facias, and a saab designed interior..

so after all is said and done we will probably have, Chevrolet, GMC, Saturn, Buick, and Saab versions..

i also cant figure out why GM cant build a competive minivan??? they have been building the same basic minivan since 1996!! all they have changed has been from the a pillar foward and redesigned the interior since then.. when is this new van due?? ive heard for the 2008 model year.. and that unlike now there will only be Saturn and Chevrolet versions of this new van..

[cavalier36]

However, four Lambda SUVs are big time overkill. 

five if you count the one that Saab will get as the 9-6...

[carman21]

How about the next Equinox should be moved up to Lambda. I've heard of a possible new compact Theta CUV called the Traverse. Basically the same as the next Vue. Eventually the SWB GMT 900s may be replaced by the Lambda CUVs, wait for the V-8.

[evok]

evok: Any reaction to the suggestion by VenSeattle of folding Pontiac and GMC into Buick, making Buick "Premium - Powerful - Professional"

I really do not know what brand has more baggage or legs to grow, Buick or Pontiac. To me I would have to toss a coin if it were my decision that a brand had to axed.

[sciguy_0504]

Thanks for confirming. I just hope MT's rendering is not the real deal, though I have a bad feeling it is close.

I also forgot to mention MT also said Saab was getting a Lambda. Sorry about that but now it seems everyone knows. I think a properly designed Saab Lambda would be good for the brand.

[jbartley]

Thanks for confirming.  I just hope MT's rendering is not the real deal, though I have a bad feeling it is close.

I also forgot to mention MT also said Saab was getting a Lambda.  Sorry about that but now it seems everyone knows.  I think a properly designed Saab Lambda would be good for the brand.

yeah, but i think they should shorten it. SAAB doesn't need a vehicle that size.

saab traditionalists would roll over and die.

Can the lambda platform be shortened? anyone?

[prototype66]

Thanks for confirming.  I just hope MT's rendering is not the real deal, though I have a bad feeling it is close.

.

Can you post the link to the rendering please?

[sciguy_0504]

Can you post the link to the rendering please?

It was in a magazine so I am not sure if it is on the web. I would presume it to be copyrighted by Motor Trend. I did a quick search on the MT site and came up with nothing. Basically, it was the Saturn Outlook with the Chevy crossbar grille.

[Angry Dad]

The U vans have been scheduled to end at about the same time the Lambdas get up to speed. It's no reall secret that the Lambda has the capabilty to be shot off into different markets. MT ranks up there with Edmunds in accuracy. Slight to none.

[91z4me]

yeah, but i think they should shorten it. SAAB doesn't need a vehicle that size.

saab traditionalists would roll over and die.

Can the lambda platform be shortened? anyone?

Lambda would be to wide for European roads so I think a 3 row Theta would be a better SAAB than a 2 row overly wide Lambda.

[regfootball]

Lambda would be to wide for European roads so I think a 3 row Theta would be a better SAAB than a 2 row overly wide Lambda.

the current GM vans were design to be sold in Europe which compromised their NA appeal, so this time with the Lambda they made sure they didn't fk that up again. The Lambda will rule the road here, they don't need em in Europe.

[DetroitNut90]

I'm all for Chevy getting a Lambda. The market has the potential to become too big for Chevy not to get a slice of the pie. However, before they can lay their hands on a Lambda SUV, I think the following conditions need to be met first:

1) They get a true homerun in the passenger car market. Something that will cut the Camry's legs out from under it. Something that destroys the Camry in every reliablility, quality, and appeal study. This is where Chevy really needs to be focusing-not on another SUV.

2) They get a truly competitive minivan. The minivans will be based on the Lambdas, so how about instead of a Lambda SUV, why not just a Lambda minivan?Something that blows the Odyssey, Sienna, Sedona, etc. out of the water.

and

3) If Chevy does get a Lambda SUV, it should look nothing (or at least vaguely, vaguely similar) like the Saturn, GMC, and Buick. No more badge engineering, please.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Why would Chevy kill the TrailBlazer? Sorry if I missed something, but it just seems unwise and unlikely that Chevy would kill TB. Maybe its sales are dropping along with other truck-based mid-size SUV's, I don't know-but it seems so continually popular and semi-traditional, as well as profit-making that it doesn't make sense to drop TrailBlazer and Envoy. Take Toyota's Highlander and 4Runner and Nissan Murano and Pathfinder for example. Of course Chevy's mid-size car-based SUV is the Equinox-but a Lambda would be a nice product that would usurp sales from the discontinued TB EXT-and all of the aforementioned Nissan, Toyota, and Chevy's are very popular in my area-or at least commonly seen.