Cadillac News: 2023 Cadillac LYRIQ Reveal, A New Standard for the 21st Century and Beyond!

[surreal1272]

23 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Precisely my point.

See surreal's earlier posts; prior generation Escalade had optional 3rd rows; same size SUV.

It should be noted that the Slade has always had 3rd row but the Tahoe did not during its 1st gen run. That is what I referring to. Either way, it does mean that was the reason for those being purchased.

[ccap41]

50 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

The key party of that is the word "almost" as in "almost three feet short of supporting a 3rd row" lol. As roomy as some full size trucks are back there, there is not a chance in hell of squeezing a 3rd row in that same space, not even close.

I ALMOST typed " *sarcasm* " but didn't think it was truly necessary. 

[surreal1272]

42 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I ALMOST typed " *sarcasm* " but didn't think it was truly necessary. 

Ease up there. I knew what you were saying. I just decided to run with and expand the use of said sarcasm. 

[G. David Felt]

Latest Update from Cadillac on LYRIQ's Development Acceleration by Virtual Testing.

2023 Cadillac LYRIQ at the Milford Proving grounds, Milford Michigan running ahead of schedule due to cutting edge virtual engineering tools.

The new enhanced engineering tools have allowed them to now do far superior airflow optimizing over the design without having to build a prototype and test in a wind tunnel. This allowed Cadillac Engineers to optimize the vented roof spoiler, reducing drag while optimizing range.

Better yet was that the new engineering tools have allowed the interiors to be designed for optimized cabin comfort taking into account everything from road and windshield noise to music and human conversations to have the best experience one could have. This starts with the actual airflow into and out of the cabin.

What does this mean for gm and the customer? Best to quote the press release:

“This new approach certainly achieved our initial goal of drastically reducing our engineering spend on expensive prototypes, but, more importantly, has enabled us to run faster than ever before, and deliver better quality on our first production vehicle builds.”

“Now that we’ve moved to the next phase of development, the initial quality of our pre-production test vehicles is some of the best that I’ve ever seen,” said Jamie Brewer, LYRIQ chief engineer. “During early test drives, I’ve been impressed with the ride, handling and overall performance of the vehicle at this stage of development.”

 

Several elements of the LYRIQ program were enhanced as a direct result of extensive virtual development and validation, including:

• Cabin comfort for all passengers in cold and hot environments
• Advanced aerodynamics to help maximize range¹ and on-road performance
• Aeroacoustics and active road noise cancellation for a more enjoyable ride
• Driver assistance and active safety features² for peace of mind
• Protection of the Ultium battery in a wide variety of collision scenarios

Cadillac LYRIQ’s Development Accelerated by Virtual Testing and Validation (gm.com)

[smk4565]

9 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

@smk4565

 

Here’s some data for you. This is a list of the top 25 selling autos of 2020. I can count the number of 3 row SUV/CUVs on one hand with fingers to spare. Tell us more about that “demand” though.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g32006077/best-selling-cars-2020/

Well then Cadillac should just kill off the XT6 and Buick should kill the Enclave if 3-row vehicles are not wanted.

[balthazar]

Rolls Cullinan only seats 5 (or 4).
MB g-wagon only seats 5.
Lambo Urus only seats 5.
 

Why?
When are those going to be cancelled?

[Robert Hall]

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

Rolls Cullinan only seats 5 (or 4).
MB g-wagon only seats 5.
Lambo Urus only seats 5.
 

Why? 

Those are luxury SUVs, not intended as family haulers like 3 row SUVs tend to be.   Different niche.

[balthazar]

Wealthy folk don't reproduce?

[surreal1272]

40 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Well then Cadillac should just kill off the XT6 and Buick should kill the Enclave if 3-row vehicles are not wanted.

Did you even read what I said or do you just normally make up scenarios where it means nothing? I provided you with actual data, via a link, of the top 25 selling vehicles. Go back and actually read that before making another snippy reply. You totally sidestep the fact that most buy those particular CUVs because of their, not because they wanted a barely usable rarely used 3rd row seat. Understand it yet?

 

Again, I provided some actual data backing up my claim. You cannot say the same. That’s the difference here. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Rolls Cullinan only seats 5 (or 4).
MB g-wagon only seats 5.
Lambo Urus only seats 5.
 

Why?
When are those going to be cancelled?

I never said SUV's need 3-rows, and I didn't say the Lyriq needs 3 rows.  But any volume or semi-volume brand needs a 3-row SUV.

 

My other point was that the XT6 will outsell the Lyriq because they are similar price and horsepower, but the XT6 has All wheel drive and a 3rd row, 2 things SUV buyers will be attracted to.  The Lyriq being rear drive is almost sales-proof in the northeast and upper midwest.  And I imagine all wheel drive will be at minimum a $10k option if not $20k and that will be a tough pill to swallow for people in a dealership with an all wheel drive XT6 sitting there with whatever massive discount of the month GM is offering on it.

[Robert Hall]

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

Wealthy folk don't reproduce?

I doubt if the typical Cullinan or Urus buyer has school age offspring.   Wealthy folk that have kids and want a 3 row would gravitate towards a GLS, X7, Escalade, LX, etc..

[surreal1272]

8 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Those are luxury SUVs, not intended as family haulers like 3 row SUVs tend to be.   Different niche.

If they’re not intended as family haulers, then why the four doors?

[balthazar]

1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

Did you even read what I said or do you just normally make up scenarios where it means nothing?

Are you going to set up a poll? I'm ready to vote.

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

My other point was that the XT6 will outsell the Lyriq because they are similar price and horsepower, but the XT6 has All wheel drive and a 3rd row, 2 things SUV buyers will be attracted to.

Then how come the XT6 doesn't outsell the XT5?

[surreal1272]

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

My other point was that the XT6 will outsell the Lyriq

Can you share this crystal ball with the rest of the class?

 

And I second Balthazar’s response about the XT5. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by surreal1272

[Robert Hall]

Just now, surreal1272 said:

If they’re not intended as family haulers, then why the four doors?

They have 4drs for the same reasons luxury sedans have 4 doors.. to carry 4 people.   Not necessarily as a family hauler. 

[smk4565]

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Wealthy folk don't reproduce?

Mercedes makes a GLS that can seat 7, and probably 6 adults with ease, for the wealthy folk.  The G-wagon is more of the personal luxury SUV, keep in mind it is smaller than a GLE.   Rolls-Royce is for old people or pro athletes that don't have kids, so they don't care how many it sits.  And the average Rolls-Royce owner owns like 20 cars or something, and they can just pay someone to drive their 2nd Rolls-Royce to chauffeur the kids around if they have them.

[balthazar]

Why can't families haul families in 5-seat vehicles?

[surreal1272]

3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And I imagine all wheel drive will be at minimum a $10k option if not $20k and that will be a tough pill to swallow for people in a dealership with an all wheel drive XT6

And that is a crock and you know it. The two are nothing alike other than sharing a price. Just stop it already. The Lyriq is night and day better looking inside and out, than the XT6 and will probably run circle around it, performance wise. You can’t even pretend that won’t happen. 

[balthazar]

Just now, smk4565 said:

they can just pay someone to drive their 2nd Rolls-Royce to chauffeur the kids around

What if they're "demanding" a 3-row Cullinan?

Is Rolls just ignore those "demands"?

[Robert Hall]

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Why can't families haul families in 5-seat vehicles?

If they have one kid, maybe..  it seems people that have multiple kids often go for 3 row minivans or SUVs so they can separate the kids.

[surreal1272]

I swear @smk4565 must have a notification that alerts him when there is any article regarding Cadillac because he only pops in here to troll anything to do with Cadillac because I guess when you have a 13 year old Benz, you have to stand up for it even when the rationale being used is an utter crock of $h!. 

[smk4565]

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

 

Then how come the XT6 doesn't outsell the XT5?

1.  Price.

2.  XT5 has been on market longer and has more name recognition.

3.  The XT6 is terrible compared to rivals in its class. 

[surreal1272]

Just now, Robert Hall said:

If they have one kid, maybe..  it seems people that have multiple kids often go for 3 row minivans or SUVs so they can separate the kids.

As a someone who grew up in a three row full size Chevy van, I can tell you for a fact that there is no amount of separation that kept me and sister from tormenting each other. 
 

Anyone with more than three kids should be considering a minivan IMO. There are even two now with AWD, making them as versatile as any CUV while providing tons more space. 

[smk4565]

4 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

And that is a crock and you know it. The two are nothing alike other than sharing a price. Just stop it already. The Lyriq is night and day better looking inside and out, than the XT6 and will probably run circle around it, performance wise. You can’t even pretend that won’t happen. 

Well the XT6 is terrible, so maybe Lyriq will outsell it by default.

[surreal1272]

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

1.  Price.

2.  XT5 has been on market longer and has more name recognition.

3.  The XT6 is terrible compared to rivals in its class. 

The XT5 is not that great compared to its rivals either but I guess that requires you to move that bar again. I’ll give you a minute. 

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

Well the XT6 is terrible, so maybe Lyriq will outsell it by default.

Again, bar moving. Make up your mind. 

[smk4565]

Escalade is the #1 selling Cadillac in 2021, of course it is all new.  XT6 sales up 18% while XT5 is down 2.8%, XT5 still outsells XT6 but that small-mid SUV segment has way more volume.  

The Enclave is outselling the Envision, the Traverse is outselling the Blazer and Acadia outselling Terrain.  So the 3-rows are going strong on those brands.

Although I would never buy an SUV, so I don't really care how many seats they have, I am just pointing out what sells and the need for brands to have like 4-5-6 different size SUVs now because consumers are so SUV crazy.

[oldshurst442]

28 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I can tell you for a fact that there is no amount of separation that kept me and sister from tormenting each other. 

LOL

Im an only child...I LOVE to hear stories like that.  

I have ALWAYS been OK without having any siblings. Only two times in my life I think that it sucked that I didnt have any brothers and sisters.

1. When my parents passed away.

2. NOW!   I love my wife and my wife loves me. I LOVE my kids.  BUT...sometimes, you just need a brother or sister to vent certain things about life that a wife or kids need not listen to...

I do vent to my wife about those things, we are very close...but a wife is not a sibling...

My wife, and certainly not my kids, need NOT listen to my extremely filthy mouth or deranged ideas floating in my head that sometimes NEED to get out.  A sibling will ALWAYS understand where you are coming from...

A wife, (not mine anyway...at least not now and after 18 years of marriage, but you never know) might question her marriage to you... 

Edited April 26, 2021 by oldshurst442

[surreal1272]

17 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

LOL

Im an only child...I LOVE to hear stories like that.  

I have ALWAYS been OK without having any siblings. Only two times in my life I think that it sucked that I didnt have any brothers and sisters.

1. When my parents passed away.

2. NOW!   I love my wife and my wife loves me. I LOVE my kids.  BUT...sometimes, you just need a brother or sister to vent certain things about life that a wife or kids need not listen to...

I do vent to my wife about those things, we are very close...but a wife is not a sibling...

My wife, and certainly not my kids, need NOT listen to my extremely filthy mouth or deranged ideas floating in my head that sometimes NEED to get out.  A sibling will ALWAYS understand where you are coming from...

A wife, (not mine anyway...at least not now and after 18 years of marriage, but you never know) might question her marriage to you... 

I love my sister but we are only 18 months apart (I’m the youngest) so it was a constant struggle for my parents, like herding feral cats. I should have been sending them sympathy and thank you for not killing us cards. 

28 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Escalade is the #1 selling Cadillac in 2021, of course it is all new.  XT6 sales up 18% while XT5 is down 2.8%, XT5 still outsells XT6 but that small-mid SUV segment has way more volume.  

The Enclave is outselling the Envision, the Traverse is outselling the Blazer and Acadia outselling Terrain.  So the 3-rows are going strong on those brands.

Although I would never buy an SUV, so I don't really care how many seats they have, I am just pointing out what sells and the need for brands to have like 4-5-6 different size SUVs now because consumers are so SUV crazy.

Remember what you said about the XT5 vs the XT6? Let me find that for you. 

“2.  XT5 has been on market longer and has more name recognition”

 

The Blazer and Envision are both far newer named models than their big brothers. Guess that doesn’t apply here (hands SMK his bar back so that he can move it yet again). Again, no direct data to support your third row claim, using that name recognition logic you threw out. 

[Robert Hall]

My family was pretty unusual, I grew up sort of like an only child because my sister is 13 years older and my brother 21 years older and were mostly out of the house after I was 5. 

[surreal1272]

34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

XT5 still outsells XT6 but that small-mid SUV segment has way more volume.  

Guess that doesn’t apply to Mercedes. 
 

[smk4565]

19 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Guess that doesn’t apply to Mercedes. 
 

Mercedes buyers have money.  The E-class is Mercedes #1 selling car in 2021.  They are not a brand that relies on the entry level product and E and GLE are often among their top sellers.  GLE has a 3rd row too, up 41%, GLB has a 3rd row up 46%.   And the GLE has a bigger share of its segment than the GLC does of its segment.

Edited April 27, 2021 by smk4565

[surreal1272]

37 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes buyers have money

You cannot be serious. I guess buyers of $100K Escalades don’t have money. I must have missed that memo but then again, I have to give you credit for yet another move of the bar. The excuses you offer to Benz, that you don’t extend to others, is just pathetic at this point. 
 

37 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They are not a brand that relies on the entry level product

Umm, A Class, GLA, and Metris van on lines 1, 2, and 3. If they weren’t reliant on entry level products, none of those three would exist. Just pure nonsense. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by surreal1272

[regfootball]

how did I miss this thread until now>?

 

[Robert Hall]

^hmm.  The Lyriq grille does kind of remind me of the pattern on some shaver heads. 

[regfootball]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Escalade is the #1 selling Cadillac in 2021, of course it is all new.  XT6 sales up 18% while XT5 is down 2.8%, XT5 still outsells XT6 but that small-mid SUV segment has way more volume.  

The Enclave is outselling the Envision, the Traverse is outselling the Blazer and Acadia outselling Terrain.  So the 3-rows are going strong on those brands.

Although I would never buy an SUV, so I don't really care how many seats they have, I am just pointing out what sells and the need for brands to have like 4-5-6 different size SUVs now because consumers are so SUV crazy.

you found the sales data I recall reading recently about the XT6 and the XT5.  Sales guy when I test drove the XT6 said it was the biggest seller now for their store.  XT6 was way overpriced and they didn't put discounts on it till recently, which explains the 18% Q1 increase....likewise you see the slight down number of the XT5 year to year, this despite the XT5 being less expensive.  I would imagine by end of this year the XT6 will outsell the XT5.  

People do want three rows.  

That said, for a 'make a splash electric' this with just two rows is better.  This is a long 'low' (for an SUV) sedan imitator.  I think as a prestige vehicle out of the gate, a two row SUV that is LONG and LOW to evoq the feeling of an old Cadillac sedan makes sense.  Cadillac has historically been LONG and LOW.  

I like the look including the deft looking tail fin lights carved into the butt.  What bothers me is that despite 'looking' ok, a console between the front seats that is separated from the dash with a couple pull out drawers is so very reminiscent of the Pacifica we just turned in.  It always felt cheap.  Our new Pacifica has the console flowing into the dash, its far more functional, a real place to put the phone, extra cubbies, feels more luxurious. WTF was Cadillac designers thinking with the pull out drawers.  People are going to hate that.  

WHERE'S THE ALL WHEEL DRIVE

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by regfootball

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

You cannot be serious. I guess buyers of $100K Escalades don’t have money. I must have missed that memo but then again, I have to give you credit for yet another move of the bar. The excuses you offer to Benz, that you don’t extend to others, is just pathetic at this point. 
 

Umm, A Class, GLA, and Metris van on lines 1, 2, and 3. If they weren’t reliant on entry level products, none of those three would exist. Just pure nonsense. 

Sure Escalade buyers have money.  A better way for me to have phased that would be to say people with a lot of money buy Mercedes, because Mercedes sells more six figure price tag vehicles than any other brand in the world. 

Cadillac's issue is they haven't been able to replicate the Escalade's success in any other segment.  They have put out a lot of mediocre product that tends to fall off the sales chart and disappear.  And yet they'll pump money into build E46 3-series clones that no one is buying, rather than putting the Escalade formula more places.

1 hour ago, regfootball said:

 

WHERE'S THE ALL WHEEL DRIVE

 

 

I am sure it is coming a a hefty price premium that they don't want to announce now because they want the perception that the Lyriq is competitively priced, which in base trim it pretty much is, although we don't know what features are standard vs how much options will cost or how high the price might go on this thing.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Sure Escalade buyers have money.  A better way for me to have phased that would be to say people with a lot of money buy Mercedes, because Mercedes sells more six figure price tag vehicles than any other brand in the world. 

 

Is that why 95% of Mercedes sales volume involves vehicles that are all CHEAPER than the Escalade?

 

You said what you said and it was a rather ignorant thing to say, no matter how you try to explain it. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

I am sure it is coming a a hefty price premium that they don't want to announce now because they want the perception that the Lyriq is competitively priced, which in base trim it pretty much is, although we don't know what features are standard vs how much options will cost or how high the price might go on this thing.

So many contractions, so little time. 

[ccap41]

14 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

14 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

If they’re not intended as family haulers, then why the four doors?

They have 4drs for the same reasons luxury sedans have 4 doors.. to carry 4 people.   Not necessarily as a family hauler. 

Am I missing something? Are two kids and two parents no longer a family? Or parents and one kid?

[Robert Hall]

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Am I missing something? Are two kids and two parents no longer a family? Or parents and one kid?

Are you just being obtuse or is there a purpose to such nonsensical posts?

[ccap41]

2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Are you just being obtuse or is there a purpose to such nonsensical posts?

It was a question based on 4 door SUVs not being considered "family haulers", brought up by others. 

"family haulers" need three rows...? Most families are less than four people(3.14, to be exact). 

[Robert Hall]

Just now, ccap41 said:

It was a question based on 4 door SUVs not being considered "family haulers", brought up by others. 

"family haulers" need three rows...? Most families are less than four people(3.14, to be exact). 

I don't think anyone said anything about 4 dr SUVs in general not being family haulers.  

But high end luxury stuff like the Urus, Bentagya, Cullinan, etc aren't being pushed as family haulers...that's not their purpose.   

Plenty of people without families buy 4dr vehicles for personal use....

[balthazar]

I grew up in a family of 5 plus a dog; we had a 2-row station wagon. We drove from NJ to FL & back (without the dog) and vacationed every summer in upstate NY (with the dog) and had no need for a 3rd row. Obviously.

It strikes me that some critics feel that a 3rd row is ‘necessary’ (despite in some instances only adding ONE more passenger), but a pickup bed longer than 4-ft isn’t. ?

[ccap41]

10 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I don't think anyone said anything about 4 dr SUVs in general not being family haulers.  

But high end luxury stuff like the Urus, Bentagya, Cullinan, etc aren't being pushed as family haulers...that's not their purpose.   

Plenty of people without families buy 4dr vehicles for personal use....

I mean... 

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I grew up in a family of 5 plus a dog; we had a 2-row station wagon. We drove from NJ to FL & back (without the dog) and vacationed every summer in upstate NY (with the dog) and had no need for a 3rd row. Obviously.

It strikes me that some critics feel that a 3rd row is ‘necessary’ (despite in some instances only adding ONE more passenger), but a pickup bed longer than 4-ft isn’t. ?

I'm a middle child of three and my parents had an older chrysler minivan before making a sweet jump to a GMC Safari with the raised roof and a DANG TV(maybe 6-8 inches ?)!

That's how people think these days.. I have a coworker who recently had their first child and they got rid of his Sonata for a Traverse. One kid. 

[ykX]

17 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

But high end luxury stuff like the Urus, Bentagya, Cullinan, etc aren't being pushed as family haulers...that's not their purpose.   

Actually, I think it is.  That is the ultimate family car or utility car for the Lamborghini or Ferrari or etc owner.

 

[ccap41]

All of these exotic CAR companies coming out with SUVs are absolutely touting their SUV as a real SUV but with added performance and luxury features. 

DBX3.webp

[regfootball]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Sure Escalade buyers have money.  A better way for me to have phased that would be to say people with a lot of money buy Mercedes, because Mercedes sells more six figure price tag vehicles than any other brand in the world. 

Cadillac's issue is they haven't been able to replicate the Escalade's success in any other segment.  They have put out a lot of mediocre product that tends to fall off the sales chart and disappear.  And yet they'll pump money into build E46 3-series clones that no one is buying, rather than putting the Escalade formula more places.

I am sure it is coming a a hefty price premium that they don't want to announce now because they want the perception that the Lyriq is competitively priced, which in base trim it pretty much is, although we don't know what features are standard vs how much options will cost or how high the price might go on this thing.

Northern climes buyers will expect AWD on the option sheet for this expensive of a crossover; i don't care if the vehicle itself weighs 5600 pounds and actually has good weight distribution...you don't tell buyers what they should get, you provide what the market says it wants, which is AWD for a crossover.  We went through this fight 10+ years ago talking about luxury sedans and heard all the 'learn to drive' excuses for rear wheel drive, in the end what the market wanted for the sedans also was all wheel drive, now all the lux sedans have all wheel drive options.  (except the high end performance Cadillacs).

[G. David Felt]

 Seems no matter how many times I post the link people seem to not read when I do post that the LYRIQ will be available in RWD and AWD.

All Press Releases here:

Cadillac Pressroom - United States - LYRIQ

The Original press release that covers the power train options:

LYRIQ Show Car Leads Cadillac Into Electric Future

QUOTE: 

LYRIQ, the Ultium battery system is a structural element of the architecture, integrated in ways that contribute to ride and handling, as well as safety. In fact, the lower center of gravity and near 50/50 weight distribution enabled by the placement of the battery pack results in a vehicle that’s sporty, responsive and allows for spirited driving.

Additionally, the LYRIQ is driven primarily by the rear wheels, with a performance all-wheel drive option available. The placement of the drive motor at the rear of the vehicle contributes an even greater feeling of balance and agility — attributes that affirm Cadillac’s longstanding commitment to satisfying performance. It also enables the system to channel more torque to the pavement without wheelspin for exhilarating acceleration and greater cornering capability. Vehicles equipped with performance all-wheel drive go a step further, with a second drive unit placed at the front of the vehicle, which allows for a significant amount of tuning flexibility, enhancing vehicle dynamics and performance for drivers.

[ccap41]

"... performance all-wheel drive option available."

This does lead me to believe it'll be a 10k package because it'll likely be matched with more powerful motors and/or battery. 

[G. David Felt]

13 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

"... performance all-wheel drive option available."

This does lead me to believe it'll be a 10k package because it'll likely be matched with more powerful motors and/or battery. 

Yes this does indicate that they will have a much higher priced version, but this does not say that their will not be other trim levels that you have a choice on of RWD or AWD. Right now it is all up in the air till GM finally releases details about the trim levels, powertrain options etc.

The only fact we know for sure is that the first initial launch version will be a RWD version initially with a performance AWD version coming afterwards and further updates to be announced.

Interesting is that the official web site for the LYRIQ now shows that the LYRIQ will start at $58,795 rather than the original announced price of $59,990.

2023 Cadillac LYRIQ | Electric SUV | Model Overview

2023-cadillac-lyriq-electric-suv-brochure.pdf

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, David said:

Seems no matter how many times I post the link people seem to not read when I do post that the LYRIQ will be available in RWD and AWD.

Because reading is fundamental and some readers are just mental.