generation e Generation E - Are you willing to join the future?

[oldshurst442]

Tim Kuniskis is saying that the Hellcat engine's time is almost up.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a35381043/dodge-ceo-says-hellcat-v-8-dying/

Its not clear if the small Hemi's time has come, (but I wont be surprised that it too will go away), but the iron block, 6.2 liter, supercharged version is going to go away soon.  And it WILL be replaced by battery packs and electric motors. 

This Gen E thing does have some drawbacks, I must admit. 

Bye Bye Love. Bye Bye Happiness! 

 

But...Im actually quite excited to see what those crazy folks over at Dodge have in store for us with Peugeot's electric motors and what they could accomplish with those under a Charger and Challenger name plate.  Possibly even a new EV Viper?  To compete with an EV Corvette?

I came across this mash-up...I think its a GREAT choice of a mash-up of MJ and BO and BlackandWhite and GetoutofmydreamsGetintomycar.

You know...FCA,Chryco, Grpoue PSA and it dont matter if its EV or ICE...its all a phoquing mash-up anyway

 

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Good LORD... OK OK... I also had a guy who came in to my work 3 times with a Prius he absolutely adored, it had 350k miles or thereabouts.  We were able to fix it for him each time, lucky for him they were minor enough damages.  HAPPY NOW?

Or you could just act like a little baby about it, judging by your snarky reply. Must be nice to always be the victim. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

@oldshurst442 Yup seeing more and more stories on the interview as the Dodge CEO says the V8 is on it's deathbed, but performance car fans should not be afraid.

Dodge CEO says the V8's on its deathbed, but American muscle shouldn't be afraid - Roadshow (cnet.com)

Jeep Gladiator is now going to get a Hybrid model using the same setup that is in the Wrangler Hybrid.

Jeep Gladiator plug-in hybrid to join lineup, report says (cnet.com)

[ocnblu]

Not afraid.  Disgusted.  Angry.  Pissed off.  Definitely not afraid.

[G. David Felt]

Just now, ocnblu said:

Not afraid.  Disgusted.  Angry.  Pissed off.  Definitely not afraid.

Please show us on the ICE where the bad EV improperly touched you!  

[ocnblu]

WTH are you talking about?

No EV has touched me.  Nor will it, I can assure you.

[oldshurst442]

7 minutes ago, David said:

@oldshurst442 Yup seeing more and more stories on the interview as the Dodge CEO says the V8 is on it's deathbed, but performance car fans should not be afraid.

Dodge CEO says the V8's on its deathbed, but American muscle shouldn't be afraid - Roadshow (cnet.com)

Jeep Gladiator is now going to get a Hybrid model using the same setup that is in the Wrangler Hybrid.

Jeep Gladiator plug-in hybrid to join lineup, report says (cnet.com)

FINALLY MOPAR's acronym gets it right.

Seeing that the internal combustion ENGINE is more of an engine rather than a motor and an electrc motor is well...a motor.  MOPAR could now make sense! 

MOTOR PARTS indeed! 

 

[balthazar]

If a Dodge Challenger comes equipped with Peugeot electric motors, Dodge is out for me. And, I would imagine; for "fans of American muscle".

[ocnblu]

16 minutes ago, balthazar said:

If a Dodge Challenger comes equipped with Peugeot electric motors, Dodge is out for me. And, I would imagine; for "fans of American muscle".

Worth repeating.  ICYMI

[oldshurst442]

41 minutes ago, balthazar said:

If a Dodge Challenger comes equipped with Peugeot electric motors, Dodge is out for me. And, I would imagine; for "fans of American muscle".

Start saying good-bye!  Like NOW! 

Chryco. itself hasnt invested in anything EV related.

Fiat hasnt invested in anything EV related either but I imagine anything electrical made in Italy is a no go either for more than 1 reason...    (cue in burning Ferraris and Lamborghinis...and some of those fires are BECAUSE of the electricals...) 

Therefore...

But really, Chryco. hasnt been 100% American for a loooooong time.

Sure...the V8s are born and bred in Auburn Hills...but...the skeleton that is that particular platform has a strong German ancestry.  It has become an American citizen and pledged allegiance to the flag all these years.  And...it ditched the very cheap American interior for a much improved ITALIAN blessed interior, because 'twas under  Marchionne's tutelage and suggestions  that the interiors of these cars be improved and WERE improved. 

And...the MOST IMPORTANT detail here is that Tim Kuniskis HINTED in NOT so many words that DODGE is here to stay in a STELLANTIS merger.   By saying that the performance of Dodge's muscle cars are gonna CONTINUE on but with electric motors and batteries, he is in fact STATING that Dodge will continue on as an ELECTRIC MUSCLE CAR BRAND...

But lets be honest here. 

If it werent for Sergio's buyout, Chrysler and Dodge would have been dead 10 years ago. 

Sergio pissed on that opportunity to make something big out of FCA, WITH Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep LEADING the way for Fiat, Lancia and Alfa Romeo instead of the other way around, but it doesnt matter, Fiat S.p.A. was what saved Chryco from the Grim Reaper. 

Now its France's Group PSA that is tasked to save Chryco's butt...

Lets be even MORE real here. The next gen Charger and Challenger will probably be on a Peugeot/Citroen platform...  Unless of course the French owners  are less pompous than the previous Italian (and German) owners and let Auburn Hills contribute.  

But who are we kidding here?

The French to be LESS pompous than either the Italians and the Germans?  HA! 

But...Im gonna post a song by a fellow New Jersian and I will NEVER SAY GOOD-BYE...to Dodge if Dodge delivers me a NEW AGE muscle car regardless what powers it and what underpins it. 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by oldshurst442

[ocnblu]

Dude is OUT THERE.

[ocnblu]

https://www.musclecarsandtrucks.com/the-electric-vehicle-price-parity-discussion-is-flawed/

[balthazar]

18 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Lets be even MORE real here. The next gen Charger and Challenger will probably be on a Peugeot/Citroen platform...

This is one of many cruxes of the issue. The very fabric of what give the Dodge brand it's appeal is -shocker- exactly how they are built. Look no further than the RISING sales of the long-in-the-tooth Challenger. Gutting it and putting a French platform underneath isn't looked at by any consumers as an upgrade.

It started with Daimler- they mis-represented the merger, then they strip-mined Chrysler of capital, inter-corporation billing them for old hardware. They had the capital to build upon what Daimler itself never could- a multi-branded corporation, but they only wanted the one thing they always do; money.

I really like the Challenger, despite not being in the market for one. But the day Stelladoro (whateves) guts that Auburn Hills icon like we're talking about here... let's face it, the only reason it's not going the other way (Dodge hardware into Peugeots) is the set-up for future discontinuation.

[Robert Hall]

It would be problematic to try and use any existing PSA platform for a performance Dodge, though—if I’m not mistaken, all their current platforms are FWD transverse engine generics.  Nothing of value. 

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

This is one of many cruxes of the issue. The very fabric of what give the Dodge brand it's appeal is -shocker- exactly how they are built. Look no further than the RISING sales of the long-in-the-tooth Challenger. Gutting it and putting a French platform underneath isn't looked at by any consumers as an upgrade.

It started with Daimler- they mis-represented the merger, then they strip-mined Chrysler of capital, inter-corporation billing them for old hardware. They had the capital to build upon what Daimler itself never could- a multi-branded corporation, but they only wanted the one thing they always do; money.

I really like the Challenger, despite not being in the market for one. But the day Stelladoro (whateves) guts that Auburn Hills icon like we're talking about here... let's face it, the only reason it's not going the other way (Dodge hardware into Peugeots) is the set-up for future discontinuation.

That is what Sergio did also.  This time, they used Jeep and the RAM pick-up trucks to siphon the money out of Auburn Hills.  At least Mercedes had the smarts to actually prop up Mercedes-Benz. Sergio squandered its opportunity to do the same. 

We will see how Group PSA will treat Chryco.   I dont see a future for Lancia and Alfa Romeo.  Honestly, I dont see Chrysler survive either.  Fiat is iffy.  Dodge has a good chance.  If this merger allows Dodge to be Dodge in the US and Canada.  Jeep and Ram are  THE Golden Geese for Stellantis in general and not just for the North American market and Jeep could DIRECTLY contribute to the well being of Europe's market as well.  Peugeot and Citroen, Ive read, are doing more than  OK in Europe. 

I do not know how true and real it is that Opel is profitable, but hey...if they didnt flub Opel, we should be optimistic in the short term at least, that they wont (and dont) flub Dodge either. 

 

 

 

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, Robert Hall said:

It would be problematic to try and use any existing PSA platform for a performance Dodge, though—if I’m not mistaken, all their current platforms are FWD transverse engine generics.  Nothing of value. 

I remember reading somewhere several months ago that FCA had tried to negotiate a deal with Faraday to supply their skateboard platform. I wonder if that is still a thing? 

But yeah...if Stellantis does NOT have an answer for a more or less big, Dodge muscle car type platform for American muscle car type feels, then I would say good-bye tp Dodge myself!  

I did say that Stellantis (Dodge) has to deliver on a new age MUSCLE CAR in order for me to accept a new Charger and Challenger.  

 

[Robert Hall]

11 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I remember reading somewhere several months ago that FCA had tried to negotiate a deal with Faraday to supply their skateboard platform. I wonder if that is still a thing? 

But yeah...if Stellantis does NOT have an answer for a more or less big, Dodge muscle car type platform for American muscle car type feels, then I would say good-bye tp Dodge myself!  

I did say that Stellantis (Dodge) has to deliver on a new age MUSCLE CAR in order for me to accept a new Charger and Challenger.  

 

I can see using PSA platforms for the smaller Jeeps that currently use Fiat and Alfa platforms, though.  I have no idea where PSA is at as far as BEV development though.  
 

Interesting times.  I love the Charger, Challenger and 300 as they are now.  Love their V8s and heft.  Kind of hard to imagine where they go next. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Robert Hall

[surreal1272]

14 hours ago, balthazar said:

If a Dodge Challenger comes equipped with Peugeot electric motors, Dodge is out for me. And, I would imagine; for "fans of American muscle".

Because you were going to buy a Challenger otherwise?

13 hours ago, ocnblu said:

https://www.musclecarsandtrucks.com/the-electric-vehicle-price-parity-discussion-is-flawed/

So making a profit is an issue now? Maybe GM should just go back to volume, volume, volume, over profits so that they can repeat their mistakes of the 90s and early 2000s

 

 And I thought a certain other user here was swift to move the bar to fit his narrative. 

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Because you were going to buy a Challenger otherwise?

Who knows? But more to the point; must someone who thinks of themselves as an auto enthusiast BUY an example of every car they like in order to be able to express a preference??

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Who knows? But more to the point; must someone who thinks of themselves as an auto enthusiast BUY an example of every car they like in order to be able to express a preference??

Never said that directly but you were implying that you would otherwise buy one unless that go the route mentioned above. Just confusing logic IMO but to each their own. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

19 hours ago, ocnblu said:

WTH are you talking about?

No EV has touched me.  Nor will it, I can assure you.

I think your wrong, you have stated in past threads Nissan Leafs you have driven and even a Chevrolet Bolt in relation to doing your job. As such, you have been touched by an EV especially in the bum!  

[G. David Felt]

I see Generation E just might have a sharp, invigorating new drive from VW, their Gen E EV prototype out testing. Seems even VW has a robot that can plug you in and recharge you. This Gen E prototype is testing new battery and charging technology that can equal an ICE. Current battery pack is 249 miles or 400 kilometers. The story goes on to say that the review has allot of clues that would imply this is the new Golf replacement or e-Golf. Course VW has killed the GOLF ICE in the US and has stated that their new product line will follow the ID for all EVs and names for ICE. As such, if this were to come to the US, I expect it to be an ID#.

VW Gen.E research vehicle can be charged via a robot | The Torque Report

 

[balthazar]

I haven't driven a Challenger as of yet. A buddy/customer has a Hemi, but he wouldn't let me teach him how to do burnouts.  ?
From inside & out, I like the Challenger enough to buy one, yes. They look cool as hell. But if it was neutered enough like we're talking here, then no.

[Robert Hall]

Sooner or later, I want a Challenger... F8 green, V8, manual.  In all it's chunky glory.  Got to get more garage space first, though.  

[G. David Felt]

23 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I haven't driven a Challenger as of yet. A buddy/customer has a Hemi, but he wouldn't let me teach him how to do burnouts.  ?
From inside & out, I like the Challenger enough to buy one, yes. They look cool as hell. But if it was neutered enough like we're talking here, then no.

I never see the Challenger as being Neutered except in it's current V6 form. I expect when they move to EV, it will get even more powerful and fun to drive.

[ocnblu]

5 hours ago, David said:

I think your wrong, you have stated in past threads Nissan Leafs you have driven and even a Chevrolet Bolt in relation to doing your job. As such, you have been touched by an EV especially in the bum!  

No I think YOUR (sic) wrong, I never drove a Bolt or a Leaf.  I have driven a Model S, several Priiii and a few Sonata Hybrids.

9 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

So making a profit is an issue now? Maybe GM should just go back to volume, volume, volume, over profits so that they can repeat their mistakes of the 90s and early 2000s

You'll find out in 2050 when you trade in your Flex.  EV prices will never come to parity with ICE.  ICE will be legislated out of existence by loons and ppl will be forced to hold onto their Flexes for a hell of a long time or start eating ramen, or cat food, to afford an EV.

[ocnblu]

On 2/1/2021 at 5:42 PM, David said:

Please show us on the ICE where the bad EV improperly touched you!  

Man, you are slow on the uptake.  Your lackey, surreal, used that old chestnut on me MUNTS ago.

[ocnblu]

4 hours ago, David said:

I never see the Challenger as being Neutered except in it's current V6 form. I expect when they move to EV, it will get even more powerful and fun to drive.

Linda, Linda!  Listen, Linda!  The "neutering" is in the lack of visceral and aural excitement!  DUH!

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Man, you are slow on the uptake.  Your lackey, surreal, used that old chestnut on me MUNTS ago.

That’s because a classic, and the truth, never die. You are in serious need of psychological help (Oops, I guess the other lackey Horse said that too).

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

No I think YOUR (sic) wrong, I never drove a Bolt or a Leaf.  I have driven a Model S, several Priiii and a few Sonata Hybrids.

You'll find out in 2050 when you trade in your Flex.  EV prices will never come to parity with ICE.  ICE will be legislated out of existence by loons and ppl will be forced to hold onto their Flexes for a hell of a long time or start eating ramen, or cat food, to afford an EV.

And exactly how tight was that tinfoil wrapped around your head when you typed that? Zero facts. All paranoia. Again, seek help.

[surreal1272]

5 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

...

Lastly, by 2050 its not like you’ll be in any condition to give two s*** about it @ocnblu.

 

And I’ll take it as a compliment if my Flex will last that long before I drive the wheels off of it. You bitch about EV prices but you have pissed away more money on no nothing cars (outside of the Colorado with transmission issues). I could keep one EV for five years and still save money over what you would end up spending on three different ICE cars.

Edited February 3, 2021 by surreal1272

[ocnblu]

7 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Lastly, by 2050 its not like you’ll be in any condition to give two s*** about it @ocnblu.

 

And I’ll take it as a compliment if my Flex will last that long before I drive the wheels off of it. You bitch about EV prices but you have pissed away more money on no nothing cars (outside of the Colorado with transmission issues). I could keep one EV for five years and still save money over what you would end up spending on three different ICE cars.

Find a new hobby

15 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

And exactly how tight was that tinfoil wrapped around your head when you typed that? Zero facts. All paranoia. Again, seek help.

LOL I could give you a list of jurisdictions that will try it, that ARE trying it.  But you already know there's a list, so what "zero facts" is this latest BS?

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

The "neutering" is in the lack of visceral and aural excitement!

I'd have to agree with that. If it were a CUV appliance, who cares.

[surreal1272]

Some folks won’t be ready for this at any time, much less by 2050. 
 

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/gasoline-is-becoming-worthless-210636353.html

[ocnblu]

Perhaps it is time for more attitude adjustments for Wall Street.

[balthazar]

Saw that 'worthless' article... but the hyperbole around BEVs at >2% of the market isn't going to make gas stations disappear in our lifetimes. 

[oldshurst442]

http://www.autoextremist.com/

THE AUTOEXTREMIST - RANTS

---

GM’S PARTING SHOTS FOR THE END OF THE ICE AGE.

http://www.autoextremist.com/universal/images/transparent.pngTUESDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 2021 AT 11:17AM

By Peter M. DeLorenzo 

Detroit. The True Believers at GM are living in a strange Twilight Zone as you read this. They have one right foot pressing down hard on machines that will define the End of the ICE Age, while working feverishly on a dazzling array of new-generation products that will usher in the Dawn of the Electron Age.

We’ve already had a preview of some of these new battery-powered machines, such as the Cadillac Lyriq and the GMC HUMMER EV, but these vehicles are just the first volley in a product offensive the likes of which has never been seen before in the company’s history. GM is developing EVs for every product segment in their current portfolio, plus some for segments not even imagined yet.

When GM announced last week that it plans to become carbon neutral in its global products and operations by 2040 and has committed to setting science-based targets to achieve carbon neutrality, there were plenty of skeptics. But GM Chairman and CEO Mary Barra made it very clear: “General Motors is joining governments and companies around the globe working to establish a safer, greener and better world. We encourage others to follow suit and make a significant impact on our industry and on the economy as a whole.” 

In a clear departure from its past, GM worked with the Environmental Defense Fund to develop a shared vision of an all-electric future and an aspiration to eliminate tailpipe emissions from new, light-duty vehicles by 2035. This is as real as it gets, and it's a serious, big-time commitment on GM's part. 

Big, bold goals require real vision, and skeptics will always be part and parcel of the process. To be sure, a lot will have to happen between now and then, but 2035 is not that far away. We're heading for a different world, folks. And GM is all-in on redefining its - and the automobile’s - role in it. 

 

[ocnblu]

Get ready to have your countryside blighted by vast solar arrays and windmills, they'll need to take up millions of acres of remote land... by necessity, they cannot be tucked in close to human settlements.

[balthazar]

I always daydreamed about taking a solid early-mid '60s full-size coupe and investing in it like you would buying a new car: audio, brakes, engine/trans, interior, A/C... a rest-mod. Then just use it like a new car. 
Pick something up for $2500-5000, put $20-25K into it, and you wouldn't lose 50% value in 3 years. 
Even a Lark 2-dr with a SBC / OD would be neat.

100 million such projects out there that would fit that bill perfectly. Plenty already done. The only obstacle is the mental block of using it daily. If an average new vehicle is $40K, that's a huge budget.

That's going to be my go-to plan in the future.
Would work well for you, too, Bill. Resto-modded '68-72 GM short bed? 

 

Call it 'Generation G'.

Edited February 3, 2021 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

gm is making BIG BIG progress in the battle for market share as they roll out and sell new EV products. Their China division in the 5 months of launching their latest EV auto has surpassed 100,000 auto sales in China. Continued investment and growth via R&D will help gm globally move forward with EV's everywhere.

GM Commits Full Support to SGMW’s NEV Development

[surreal1272]

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

Saw that 'worthless' article... but the hyperbole around BEVs at >2% of the market isn't going to make gas stations disappear in our lifetimes. 

"Worthless" is a subjective term as I believe there is validity to the article and assessments within. Yes, they could be wrong but they could also be right. Just because it doesn't agree with your assessment of BEVs doesn't mean its wrong. 

7 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Get ready to have your countryside blighted by vast solar arrays and windmills, they'll need to take up millions of acres of remote land... by necessity, they cannot be tucked in close to human settlements.

Yeah, its a good thing that coal mines are so safe and that oil pipelines never leak and take up too much land for the exact same reasons you mention above.

13 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Perhaps it is time for more attitude adjustments for Wall Street.

But but, when Wall Street is doing well, then the U.S. is doing well (at least, that's what a certain previous administration said for the last four years).

[balthazar]

5 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

"Worthless" is a subjective term as I believe there is validity to the article and assessments within. Yes, they could be wrong but they could also be right. Just because it doesn't agree with your assessment of BEVs doesn't mean its wrong.

Market-based example : Exxon-Mobil is up 50% over last 3 months.

But yeah; trying to predict future market events is not that far off playing the one-arm bandits in a casino.