Interactive Review: 2020 Toyota 86 GT

[William Maley]

Next up on the review vehicle playlist here at C&G's Detroit Bureau is the 2020 Toyota 86, a vehicle I haven't driven since it was called the Scion FR-S. A lot has changed with this model aside from its name since the one I drove back in 2013. The styling has been refreshed, various tweaks made the suspension, and minor updates to the interior. What hasn't changed is the 2.0L boxer-four from Subaru that produces 205 horsepower and 156 pound-feet of torque. My test vehicle has the standard six-speed manual.

The as-tested price for this 86 comes to $34,783, partly due to a couple of TRD options being fitted. Here's some first impressions,

• The 2.0L boxer-four isn't a great sounding to begin with, sounding like a bucket of bolts being shaken. The optional TRD exhaust only makes the noise worse.
• Handling is still this car's strong suit, offering minimal body roll and crisp steering.
• The touchscreen radio is very barebones, but does offer Apple CarPlay.

I'll have more thoughts throughout the week, and will be doing my best to answer various questions from you. 

View full article

[Drew Dowdell]

What has been changed since it has been introduced?

[G. David Felt]

With Torque being so weak, how is the off the line pull?

How is high speed passing in this car?

Equal to the 2013, better or worse since your last review?

[surreal1272]

$34K for a 205 HP four banger with no torque? Hard pass. 

[smk4565]

$34k and it doesn’t have any power and it isn’t very nice inside, so what do you get for all that money?

Also there are 6 cylinder cars with 400 hp putting out 21/28 mpg or even beating that number.

Edited August 28, 2020 by smk4565

[ccap41]

dRiViNg ExPeRiEnCe

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

dRiViNg ExPeRiEnCe

Better be one hell of an ExPeRiEnCe for that kind of Coin and Weak ass engine.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

dRiViNg ExPeRiEnCe

I can get a better driving experience for the same and possibly cheaper coin. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by surreal1272

[William Maley]

4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

What has been changed since it has been introduced?

Updated styling, new radio and climate controls, improved instrument cluster, changes to the suspension, and others.

3 hours ago, David said:

With Torque being so weak, how is the off the line pull?

How is high speed passing in this car?

Equal to the 2013, better or worse since your last review?

• Does surprisingly well off the line, where it lacks is in the mid-range
• Tough as you need to plan and bear in mind you'll be wondering where all of the power went in the mid-range
• Some aspects are better, will need to spend more time to fully answer that.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

$34k and it doesn’t have any power and it isn’t very nice inside, so what do you get for all that money?

Also there are 6 cylinder cars with 400 hp putting out 21/28 mpg or even beating that number.

The driving experience, not everyone wants something that is stupid fast. See also the Miata.

 

[oldshurst442]

Am I the only one to actually like this car?

OK...NOT the Toyota, the Subie.  But that is just me being douchie against Toyota.  

There is a reason why I like this car:  ITS A 2 DOOR SPORTS CAR IN AN ERA WHEN COUPES AND/OR SPORTS CARS  ARE NON-EXISTENT.   And THAT to me is more than enough reason to like this car.

I do not know if you guys know that I HATE  HATED  the 5th gen Camaro.    Well...I saw 3 today randomly.  Almost back to back to back going to work.   2 6 cylinder models and 1 SS.   The SS made some lovely V8 sounds as I heard it while driving in back of it ....and  I felt something that I havent felt in a looooong time.   I miss when 2 door coupes and sports cars were all over the damned place and not some mythical unicorn in a sea of CUVs.     

We should be thankful these exist...especially from appliance company #1 Toyota.  And no worries, those folk who want a little more ooomph from their Toyobarus

https://elementtuning.com/monster-86-subaru-brz-and-toyota-86-v8-conversion/

 

[smk4565]

I get that they are small and light, so you don't need a lot of power, but this car is slow for $34k.  Golf GTI is a much better buy.   I'd imagine too whatever good handling it has, it pays for in ride comfort, being a short wheelbase car with some stiff suspension set for handling.

[oldshurst442]

What if these cars had a racing series dedicated only to them?  Like how the Porsche 944s, Camaros and Miatas had. Would that make a difference in ya'lls perception?

Because, Porsche 944s and Miatas of their day werent all that fast...but were/are still revered by...um...car enthusiasts.

Like...arent we car enthusiasts here?  

Because we all act like it but then we shyte on this car...  I get that this is a Toyota, and I applaud and appreciate the shytting , but at heart, this car is a dedicated sports car through and through.  Yes...with a torqueless 4 banger. Subaru should have offered their WRX engine in it while Toyota could have at least tried to shoehorn their BMW  sourced inline 6 from their Supra for a hyper trim 86 negating the need to LS swap.  But at the end of the day, the Toyobarus are purebred sportscars...  And THAT is a good thing!  

 

[smk4565]

It would be a slow racing series and no one want to watch a one make race.  154 lb-ft just isn’t enough for over $30k of car.

[regfootball]

16 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

I can get a better driving experience for the same and possibly cheaper coin. 

the old four cylinder Camaro would have been a better driving experience.

 

and armrest, 200 dollar OPTION!!!!

Edited August 29, 2020 by regfootball

[daves87rs]

Still a nice car...they can be fun to drive. But still about ten grand too much......

[William Maley]

20 hours ago, daves87rs said:

Still a nice car...they can be fun to drive. But still about ten grand too much......

Hence when it comes to my recommendation in my finished review, I likely say the base model is the better buy ($27k or so).

[daves87rs]

4 hours ago, William Maley said:

Hence when it comes to my recommendation in my finished review, I likely say the base model is the better buy ($27k or so).

Yep!

Always find it interesting that when it comes to small fun cars, the base model tends to better when there is no junk added..........

[USA-1]

"The 2.0L boxer-four isn't a great sounding to begin with, sounding like a bucket of bolts being shaken." That was good Maley, I got a good laugh out of that! It's true they are an odd sounding engine.

I think the only thing these cars have going for them is the RWD driving dynamics, a lot of drifters like them. They definitely need some more pony's under the hood and to drop the MSRP at least $5k! 

[ykX]

On 8/28/2020 at 10:27 PM, smk4565 said:

I get that they are small and light, so you don't need a lot of power, but this car is slow for $34k.  Golf GTI is a much better buy.   I'd imagine too whatever good handling it has, it pays for in ride comfort, being a short wheelbase car with some stiff suspension set for handling.

Sure, lets compare apples to oranges.  FWD souped up hatchback and RWD sporty coupe.

I bet you never driven either one but rush to make such statements.

[ykX]

13 hours ago, William Maley said:

Hence when it comes to my recommendation in my finished review, I likely say the base model is the better buy ($27k or so).

Everyone gets caught up on the price of the fully loaded car.  It has a bunch of options really not necessary for the driving enjoyment.

[ccap41]

On 8/28/2020 at 5:08 PM, surreal1272 said:

I can get a better driving experience for the same and possibly cheaper coin. 

 

On 8/28/2020 at 4:07 PM, David said:

Better be one hell of an ExPeRiEnCe for that kind of Coin and Weak ass engine.

For that kind of money you can easily find a 2.0 or 3.6 Camaro(probably with the 1LE package as well) or 2.3 Mustang.

A 1LE 2.0T Camaro can be had for $29,500.

1LE 3.6 Camaro can be had for $32,100.

The 2.3 EcoBoost Mustang can be had with the "high performance package"(I thought it was just "performance package" in the past) for $32,300.

I do understand this Toyota is probably as loaded up as it can get so with the Mustang and Camaro adding the performance packages for those prices, you're definitely in lesser trims.

It's unfortunate because I think the Toyota LOOKS like a perfect alternative to the MX-5, as I'm not a fan of convertibles. It just sucks it has an engine not really worthy of the vehicle. It doesn't so much need more horsepower or even toque, it just needs to be a more rev happy engine that inspires aggressive driving. 

On 8/28/2020 at 9:13 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Am I the only one to actually like this car?

OK...NOT the Toyota, the Subie.  But that is just me being douchie against Toyota.  

There is a reason why I like this car:  ITS A 2 DOOR SPORTS CAR IN AN ERA WHEN COUPES AND/OR SPORTS CARS  ARE NON-EXISTENT.   And THAT to me is more than enough reason to like this car.

I do not know if you guys know that I HATE  HATED  the 5th gen Camaro.    Well...I saw 3 today randomly.  Almost back to back to back going to work.   2 6 cylinder models and 1 SS.   The SS made some lovely V8 sounds as I heard it while driving in back of it ....and  I felt something that I havent felt in a looooong time.   I miss when 2 door coupes and sports cars were all over the damned place and not some mythical unicorn in a sea of CUVs.     

We should be thankful these exist...especially from appliance company #1 Toyota.  And no worries, those folk who want a little more ooomph from their Toyobarus

https://elementtuning.com/monster-86-subaru-brz-and-toyota-86-v8-conversion/

 

I think it is extremely attractive. I would absolutely like to drive one and they're probably quite a bit of fun. 

The downside to me is extracting more power out of them. I remember watching a full detailed video about modifying them and dynoing them after each common aftermarket part and with like a tune, intake, and exhaust, they only got like 10whp out of it. They just don't respond well to common aftermarket parts and pretty much need boost to really add any power. That would be a huge downside to me. It isn't wicked quick and I wouldn't be going for some 400hp Toyota 86 or whatever, but I'd like to be able to get like 225-250WHP. That would be properly quick for the size of car.

Edited August 31, 2020 by ccap41

[ccap41]

On 8/28/2020 at 11:08 PM, smk4565 said:

It would be a slow racing series and no one want to watch a one make race.  154 lb-ft just isn’t enough for over $30k of car.

When you're rating, you're never pulling from 1500rpm anyway. You don't need much torque in a car that's on a racetrack. it would benefit from a fatter mid-range but it doesn't need much from 1500-3000rpm for a racing series. 

Look at F1 cars if you're doubting that fact. 

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

 

For that kind of money you can easily find a 2.0 or 3.6 Camaro(probably with the 1LE package as well) or 2.3 Mustang.

A 1LE 2.0T Camaro can be had for $29,500.

1LE 3.6 Camaro can be had for $32,100.

The 2.3 EcoBoost Mustang can be had with the "high performance package"(I thought it was just "performance package" in the past) for $32,300.

I do understand this Toyota is probably as loaded up as it can get so with the Mustang and Camaro adding the performance packages for those prices, you're definitely in lesser trims.

It's unfortunate because I think the Toyota LOOKS like a perfect alternative to the MX-5, as I'm not a fan of convertibles. It just sucks it has an engine not really worthy of the vehicle. It doesn't so much need more horsepower or even toque, it just needs to be a more rev happy engine that inspires aggressive driving. 

I think it is extremely attractive. I would absolutely like to drive one and they're probably quite a bit of fun. 

The downside to me is extracting more power out of them. I remember watching a full detailed video about modifying them and dynoing them after each common aftermarket part and with like a tune, intake, and exhaust, they only got like 10whp out of it. They just don't respond well to common aftermarket parts and pretty much need boost to really add any power. That would be a huge downside to me. It isn't wicked quick and I wouldn't be going for some 400hp Toyota 86 or whatever, but I'd like to be able to get like 225-250WHP. That would be properly quick for the size of car.

For more than $1000 LESS, I can get a 6.2L V8 Camaro. As otherS have said, get the base model 86 if you want a decent deal. All the options add up to about $8K too much especially when none the options involve more power. Listen, don’t get me wrong here. Price aside, I get the appeal of the car. As a former MR2 owner, I get it. I also get value and this car, with options, is not a good value at all.

Edited August 31, 2020 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

9 hours ago, ykX said:

Sure, lets compare apples to oranges.  FWD souped up hatchback and RWD sporty coupe.

I bet you never driven either one but rush to make such statements.

I have not driven either, but there aren't many cars in this segment.  I have driven the Genesis Coupe with a V6 years ago, that at least had 300 hp for similar money to the BRZ/86.  A Nissan 370Z is the same price and has 332 hp and it is is a fairly light weight car, smaller than something like a Camaro or Mustang.  

And I don't expect the 86 to drop a 300 hp V6 in there, but I don't see why they can't offer the 241 hp turbo 4 in the Lexus IS or the 268 hp Subaru WRX engine.  Either would work and make this car worth $34k.

[ykX]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I have not driven either, but there aren't many cars in this segment.  I have driven the Genesis Coupe with a V6 years ago, that at least had 300 hp for similar money to the BRZ/86.  A Nissan 370Z is the same price and has 332 hp and it is is a fairly light weight car, smaller than something like a Camaro or Mustang.  

And I don't expect the 86 to drop a 300 hp V6 in there, but I don't see why they can't offer the 241 hp turbo 4 in the Lexus IS or the 268 hp Subaru WRX engine.  Either would work and make this car worth $34k.

Again, this car is fully loaded costs $34k it starts at $27k.  370Z starts at $31k, fully loaded it reaches $45k (which is ridiculous by itself)

370Z weight is 3200lbs minimum, 86 weight is 2800lbs.

Could 86 use more power? Absolutely!  But comparing fully loaded car to a bare bones Mustang, Camaro or 370Z is stupid.

Mustang Ecoboost starts at 27k too but it will be a pig compared to 86 or Miata.  It has 300 hp but weight 3600lbs.

I can tell you one thing, in autocross were agility and handling is the priority there are only few cars that rule: Miata, 86/BRZ, Corvette and 911/Cayman.  

 

[A Horse With No Name]

On 8/28/2020 at 5:03 PM, ccap41 said:

dRiViNg ExPeRiEnCe

The Driving Experience is much better in my 2020 Ford Ranger. 

45 minutes ago, ykX said:

Again, this car is fully loaded costs $34k it starts at $27k.  370Z starts at $31k, fully loaded it reaches $45k (which is ridiculous by itself)

370Z weight is 3200lbs minimum, 86 weight is 2800lbs.

Could 86 use more power? Absolutely!  But comparing fully loaded car to a bare bones Mustang, Camaro or 370Z is stupid.

Mustang Ecoboost starts at 27k too but it will be a pig compared to 86 or Miata.  It has 300 hp but weight 3600lbs.

I can tell you one thing, in autocross were agility and handling is the priority there are only few cars that rule: Miata, 86/BRZ, Corvette and 911/Cayman.  

 

Whcih is why my Daughter drives a C6 Z06, my son drives an S2000, Daughters boyfriend has a Mitsu Evo....good autocross cars all. 

19 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

For more than $1000 LESS, I can get a 6.2L V8 Camaro. As otherS have said, get the base model 86 if you want a decent deal. All the options add up to about $8K too much especially when none the options involve more power. Listen, don’t get me wrong here. Price aside, I get the appeal of the car. As a former MR2 owner, I get it. I also get value and this car, with options, is not a good value at all.

I am kind of becoming more of a truck guy. Would buy a Mustang GT or Civic Type R if I were to spend $ for a passenger car in this price range. 

21 hours ago, ccap41 said:

 

For that kind of money you can easily find a 2.0 or 3.6 Camaro(probably with the 1LE package as well) or 2.3 Mustang.

A 1LE 2.0T Camaro can be had for $29,500.

1LE 3.6 Camaro can be had for $32,100.

The 2.3 EcoBoost Mustang can be had with the "high performance package"(I thought it was just "performance package" in the past) for $32,300.

I do understand this Toyota is probably as loaded up as it can get so with the Mustang and Camaro adding the performance packages for those prices, you're definitely in lesser trims.

It's unfortunate because I think the Toyota LOOKS like a perfect alternative to the MX-5, as I'm not a fan of convertibles. It just sucks it has an engine not really worthy of the vehicle. It doesn't so much need more horsepower or even toque, it just needs to be a more rev happy engine that inspires aggressive driving. 

I think it is extremely attractive. I would absolutely like to drive one and they're probably quite a bit of fun. 

The downside to me is extracting more power out of them. I remember watching a full detailed video about modifying them and dynoing them after each common aftermarket part and with like a tune, intake, and exhaust, they only got like 10whp out of it. They just don't respond well to common aftermarket parts and pretty much need boost to really add any power. That would be a huge downside to me. It isn't wicked quick and I wouldn't be going for some 400hp Toyota 86 or whatever, but I'd like to be able to get like 225-250WHP. That would be properly quick for the size of car.

The Miata is IMHO so much more of a pure sports car. They have retractible hardtop 3rd gen Miatas, and rF in the 4th gen. Or get one of the removable hardtops for the first two gens. I love the 86/BRZ, but could not justifry it over a Miata. 

[A Horse With No Name]

On 8/31/2020 at 1:14 AM, USA-1 said:

"The 2.0L boxer-four isn't a great sounding to begin with, sounding like a bucket of bolts being shaken." That was good Maley, I got a good laugh out of that! It's true they are an odd sounding engine.

I think the only thing these cars have going for them is the RWD driving dynamics, a lot of drifters like them. They definitely need some more pony's under the hood and to drop the MSRP at least $5k! 

Miata is more pure driving esxperience, and has much more of a cult following. 

On 8/29/2020 at 12:08 AM, smk4565 said:

It would be a slow racing series and no one want to watch a one make race.  154 lb-ft just isn’t enough for over $30k of car.

They ahve a racing series in Austrailia with these where the competition is really quite tight and quite good. You don't need a ton of power for good racing. Formula Ford, Spec Racer Ford, and SCCQA Improved touring is loads better than NASCAR or the like in my opinion. I spent several eyars crewing and working as a race official...amatuire racing withc ars like these is a total blast. Would take that ten billion times before  I would buy a staid boring Mercedees sedan. 

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

The Driving Experience is much better in my 2020 Ford Ranger. 

You bought a new Ranger??? 

[G. David Felt]

@A Horse With No Name Totally love the truck, Congratulation, plus easier to haul wood for projects and tools.  

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, ykX said:

Again, this car is fully loaded costs $34k it starts at $27k.  370Z starts at $31k, fully loaded it reaches $45k (which is ridiculous by itself)

370Z weight is 3200lbs minimum, 86 weight is 2800lbs.

Could 86 use more power? Absolutely!  But comparing fully loaded car to a bare bones Mustang, Camaro or 370Z is stupid.

Mustang Ecoboost starts at 27k too but it will be a pig compared to 86 or Miata.  It has 300 hp but weight 3600lbs.

I can tell you one thing, in autocross were agility and handling is the priority there are only few cars that rule: Miata, 86/BRZ, Corvette and 911/Cayman.  

 

Actually its not stupid to compare it to a V8 base Camaro or Stang because technically the GT86 starts around the same price as the four banger Stang and Camaro. And while $10K extra gets you a V8 and better driving bits for the pony car, its gets you jack squat for the GT86. Sorry, that is a terrible bang for the buck ratio when you start adding what what each car actually gets you.

[A Horse With No Name]

11 minutes ago, David said:

@A Horse With No Name Totally love the truck, Congratulation, plus easier to haul wood for projects and tools.  

Absolutely!

29 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

You bought a new Ranger??? 

Yep, Shadow Black, STX package, FX2 package, 2020, supercab, happy guy. 

My wife doesn't want me posting pics of it on the internet, but it is real. 

She just doesn't like bragging....but I did send a pic of it on FB/mesenger to several members here. 

[ccap41]

FWIW, the Camaro 1LE can't be in base trim(1LS). It has to be a 1LT trim or higher to add the 1LE package. 

Also, base for base, 25k Camaro vs 27k Toyota 86GT.. 

Add the Toyota TRD Handling Package($2,320) brings it to $29,380.

1LT Camaro + 1LE = $30,995 before any rebates..which they manage to automatically include when building so it's actually a little tricky to price. They show you the after rebate price with "$1500 cash allowance" of $29,495. 

I just know I would absolutely rather have a 2.0T Camaro with the 1LE package over the 86GT and I can't imagine the "driving experience" is any better in the 86GT. I've never heard a bad thing about the Alpha platform cars when it comes to handling. 

8 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Absolutely!

Yep, Shadow Black, STX package, FX2 package, 2020, supercab, happy guy. 

My wife doesn't want me posting pics of it on the internet, but it is real. 

She just doesn't like bragging....but I did send a pic of it on FB/mesenger to several members here. 

Nice! Congrats, my man! 

Where do you live that you preferred 2WD over 4WD? I do think the locking rear diff makes 2WD surprisingly capable and better off than 4WD with two open diffs. 

[A Horse With No Name]

Ohio. I wanted the fuel economy of 2wd, and less to break on the truck as I intend to keep it for a really long time. Had 4 miles on it when I started the test drive...

Got the 6 foot bed Supercab rather than the crew cab as I wanted a longer bed for hauling. 

But the new Ford advert says it all...

 

 

 

[ccap41]

22 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Actually its not stupid to compare it to a V8 base Camaro or Stang because technically the GT86 starts around the same price as the four banger Stang and Camaro. And while $10K extra gets you a V8 and better driving bits for the pony car, its gets you jack squat for the GT86. Sorry, that is a terrible bang for the buck ratio when you start adding what what each car actually gets you.

You also can't get the 6.2 or 5.0 in any base trims. The Camaro you have to get the LT1 trim which is above 1LS, 1LT, 2LT, and 3Lt. The Mustang packaging is a little more difficult to compare but it is similar to the base 2.3. It adds some interior goodies the base 2.3 doesn't have like powered seats and reverse sensing system...not a whole lot more inside. You're pretty much paying for the engine, suspension, differential, wheels, and some exterior things like a rear diffuser and spoiler. There's a lot more available to option up but, that's another story. 

8 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Ohio. I wanted the fuel economy of 2wd, and less to break on the truck as I intend to keep it for a really long time. Had 4 miles on it when I started the test drive...

Got the 6 foot bed Supercab rather than the crew cab as I wanted a longer bed for hauling. 

But the new Ford advert says it all...

 

 

 

Completely understandable.

Wow, that's a GREAT commercial.

[ykX]

46 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Yep, Shadow Black, STX package, FX2 package, 2020, supercab, happy guy. 

Didn't you hate Ford with passion?   

59 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Actually its not stupid to compare it to a V8 base Camaro or Stang

50 mile radius from where I live:

Cheapest V8 Camaro - $37.5k

Cheapest V8 Mustang - $38k

Most expensive 86 - $29.6k

[ykX]

3 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

my Daughter drives a C6 Z06

Respect!

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, ykX said:

Didn't you hate Ford with passion?   

50 mile radius from where I live:

Cheapest V8 Camaro - $37.5k

Cheapest V8 Mustang - $38k

Most expensive 86 - $29.6k

And completely different buyers. I could also spend 29.6 on a Kia Soul, a Honda CRV, or a Hyundai Santa Fe.....very different buyers for those also. 

1 hour ago, ykX said:

Respect!

She is 24 years old and did it all herself without my help. She also has a hefty down payment for a house saved. She is doing well for herself. 

A litle bit of straight line love...and a bloack ranger at the 2>06 mark! Not every car needs to handle like the 86....

 

 

[USA-1]

4 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Miata is more pure driving esxperience, and has much more of a cult following. 

They ahve a racing series in Austrailia with these where the competition is really quite tight and quite good. You don't need a ton of power for good racing. Formula Ford, Spec Racer Ford, and SCCQA Improved touring is loads better than NASCAR or the like in my opinion. I spent several eyars crewing and working as a race official...amatuire racing withc ars like these is a total blast. Would take that ten billion times before  I would buy a staid boring Mercedees sedan. 

Miata has that cult following for sure, like the RX7 clubs that are still alive. I know a guy in my hometown with a couple of very clean RX7's who's in a big club in the PNW. Rotary or Die for those guys✋?? 

[A Horse With No Name]

2 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Miata has that cult following for sure, like the RX7 clubs that are still alive. I know a guy in my hometown with a couple of very clean RX7's who's in a big club in the PNW. Rotary or Die for those guys✋?? 

My son was that way, until he discovered the Honda S2000. 

[smk4565]

10 hours ago, ykX said:

Again, this car is fully loaded costs $34k it starts at $27k.  370Z starts at $31k, fully loaded it reaches $45k (which is ridiculous by itself)

370Z weight is 3200lbs minimum, 86 weight is 2800lbs.

Could 86 use more power? Absolutely!  But comparing fully loaded car to a bare bones Mustang, Camaro or 370Z is stupid.

Mustang Ecoboost starts at 27k too but it will be a pig compared to 86 or Miata.  It has 300 hp but weight 3600lbs.

I can tell you one thing, in autocross were agility and handling is the priority there are only few cars that rule: Miata, 86/BRZ, Corvette and 911/Cayman.  

 

All that aside, if they offered the 86/BRZ with the 241 hp turbo from Lexus, they could do that as a stand alone $2k option, and broaden the appeal.  Probably they'll do it in the final model year when sales are dropping off just before they kill the car.

It isn't so much about what the competition has, but people just walking away from the BRZ/86 due to it being low on power.

Edited September 1, 2020 by smk4565

[A Horse With No Name]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

All that aside, if they offered the 86/BRZ with the 241 hp turbo from Lexus, they could do that as a stand alone $2k option, and broaden the appeal.  Probably they'll do it in the final model year when sales are dropping off just before they kill the car.

It isn't so much about what the competition has, but people just walking away from the BRZ/86 due to it being low on power.

Actually resale values for the car have picked up. Most fo the earlier cars ahve been totalled out by overly enthusiastic drivers, and they only build and import them in small numbers. Supply and demand being equal, it has become a very niche car beloved by a small minority of the driving public. 

[Robert Hall]

5 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Actually resale values for the car have picked up. Most fo the earlier cars ahve been totalled out by overly enthusiastic drivers, and they only build and import them in small numbers. Supply and demand being equal, it has become a very niche car beloved by a small minority of the driving public. 

My previous next-door neighbors had bought a wrecked red FR-S/86 for their teenage son a couple years ago...was missing most of the front end..they rebuilt it in their driveway and at one point had it in the backyard up on ramps, I think they took the engine out w/ a block and tackle attached to a tree branch...Ukrainian shade tree mechanics.   It was zooming around the neighborhood the last year going BrrraWWWWWppppp...

Edited September 2, 2020 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

48 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

My previous next-door neighbors had bought a wrecked red FR-S/86 for their teenage son a couple years ago...was missing most of the front end..they rebuilt it in their driveway and one point had it in the backyard up on ramps, I think they took the engine out w/ a block and tackle attached to a tree branch...Ukrainian shade tree mechanics.   It was zooming around the neighborhood the last year going BrrraWWWWWppppp...

Fart Can Mechanics!  

[Drew Dowdell]

I have always liked driving these.  I fit really well in the driver seat and everything is ergonomically great.  The balance of the car, the steering, the handling are all superb. Could it use a bit more horsepower? Sure, but I wouldn't want it to disturb the balance of the car.

[A Horse With No Name]

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I have always liked driving these.  I fit really well in the driver seat and everything is ergonomically great.  The balance of the car, the steering, the handling are all superb. Could it use a bit more horsepower? Sure, but I wouldn't want it to disturb the balance of the car.

They are an amazing driving car. Was actually considering this and the Miata before I decided on the Ranger. 

[William Maley]

Some more thoughts before the 86 heads back tomorrow,

• Even though I cannot stand the engine noise, I can't help but letting the revs climb before shifting into another gear. Reminds me a lot of the Mazda MX-5 where I let the revs climb, giving me the illusion of speed, even though I'm going 40 to 45 mph.
• Ride quality isn't as terrible as I thought it would be. Yes, you will feel most of the bumps, but it isn't as harsh as the last Miata.
• Fuel economy is settling around 27 to 28 mpg.

I saw someone mention the possibility of a turbo engine for the 86/BRZ. The rumor has the next-generation model possibly getting one, again from Subaru. It might be the unit from the Legacy and Outback.