Cadillac News: Cadillac Lyriq Gives Us Our First Peek Into GM's Electric Dreams

[smk4565]

Rumor now is that the Lyriq will start under $60k.  That’s a good move but we still need to see the final version.  But price is key to this car, they have to make the pricing look like a good deal to get people to buy a Lyriq over an XT5 or a rival brand’s product.

And maybe GM is willing to lose money on them  because they need CAFE numbers and want to keep cranking out Silverados and big SUVs, and the CAFE helpers like Sonic, Cruze, etc are gone.

[balthazar]

Everybody loses money on electrics.

[smk4565]

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Consumers do not 'move up' thru an existing brand, but perhaps they do within a corporation.

Sure they move up within a brand.  Escalade buyers never owned a Cadillac before?  Impala or Equinox don’t pull buyers from Cobalt, Cruze or Malibu?  If any brand is letting all those 3 year lease return customers go out the door instead of moving them up through the brand or at least keeping them in brand, they are not doing their job.

 

 

[balthazar]

It's a fallacy not supported by any large-scale evidence, but hoped for by marketing.
Brand loyalty in general is not great, and each tier going up the ladder of a given brand sees only a fraction of the sales of the tier below it.

15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Rumor now is that the Lyriq will start under $60k.

I don't put much stock in rumors circa 2 years out from an actual window sticker, but $60K would be a great level to come in at. EV SUV sales are terrible largely because they're such a poor value, but the flip side is no one makes money on them, so selling MORE vehicles at a loss only INCREASES your loss.

[oldshurst442]

13 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Sure they move up within a brand.  Escalade buyers never owned a Cadillac before?  Impala or Equinox don’t pull buyers from Cobalt, Cruze or Malibu?  If any brand is letting all those 3 year lease return customers go out the door instead of moving them up through the brand or at least keeping them in brand, they are not doing their job.

 

 

 My direct next door neighbor is  Romanian (Moldova) new to Canada.  Has moved here about 15 years ago.  He and his wife married in Moldova and moved to Montreal when their (only) son was 2 years old.   (Hold still please...there is a point to the story...)  

We have been great neighbors to each other for 11 years now.  We both bought our houses new at the same time.  (just a little bit longer, this back story IS important, I promise)  

OK...when we first started talking to each other, we introduced ourselves, our backround, etc...  We INSTANTLY connected because of our European and religious background.   Greek Orthodox...  And...well,  Romanians although closer ethnically to Romans (Italians and the Roman Empire and hence Romanians as their name), culturally they more identify with Greece and of course our shared religion.   (That might not have been necessary, sorry, but I like telling stories...)

OK...the thing is, him being European, American cars get a bad bad rap.  He never once saw an American car BEFORE moving to Canada, he didnt even know that Opel was a General Motors brand...  but that never stopped him in having a negative opinion on American cars...

When he needed to replace his old used Honda Civic he bought when he first came to Canada, and the Civic wasnt even THAT old 10 years ago, he asked me for car advice.  This is where I found out his opinions on American cars.  We talked for a good 3 days on the subject in a row. 

Anyway...long story short, less long, he took my advice and bought a 2010 Chevrolet Equinox.  He was impressed with it. He tried all other CUVs of that time but the Equinox was the one he like the best.   He and his wife liked GM so much that 6 months later, he bought a Chevrolet Cruze.

Well, he still has those cars. The Cruze has very low mileage while the Equinox has 175 000 trouble free miles.   He  just bought a new vehicle. He is  keept the Equinox for his son. as his son is reaching driving age...

Anyway...he bought a 2020...

Cadillac XT5.

He thanked me for making him keep an open mind regarding American cars.

he told me all other CUVs in that price range, and like the Equinox, he was most impressed with the Cadillac...

Now...4 things.

 

1. In a perfect world, yes, GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Mercedes etc..., would like for repeat business and it does happen

2. But  In  2020, with more and more people leasing and all kinds of competition around with every year, NEW generations of vehicles come out practically with all this competition around,  its very hard for brand loyalty to exist.  We are a loooong way out from the 1950s and 1960s...   repeat business and moving on up is NOT the norm.   Its not a question of Chevrolet or Honda NOT doing their job if  in 10 years time, an owner does NOT buy a Buick or Acura and moves unto something else...

There are tooooo many choices out there for people to pass up on... 

3.  When one has an open mind, one actually sees that American cars, and especially GM, have been making at the very least, cars that are on par with foreign competition, if not better.      My neighbor, didnt buy an American car because I told him to.   I told him to go out and shop around.  He did. He bought what was best for him, his family and his pocket.  All three times in the last 10 years with good advice from his unbiased neighbor.     I didnt tell him American cars are good. I told him American cars WERE good at one time. Then American cars got shyte. But no different from European cars. But then I told him...and this was DURING and RIGHT AFTER GM's bankruptcy, that GM is no longer the stereotypical GM of where he got his negative opinions from.   Remember, the Cruze and the Equinox of the time were products DIRECTLY resulting BEFORE and DURING this crisis...

The XT5 also...to a degree...

He told me about his Cadillac purchase, that he has talked to other BMW and Mercedes owners...  Lexus owners.   He didnt ask me about how I feel about today's Cadillac. He talked to other people...  He didnt tell me what those other folks told him about their Bimmers and Mercedes and Lexus...  He just told me he crossed shopped the Caddy and like the Caddy best.  And BECAUSE he had such a pleasant ownership time with those Chevys, he decided to stay with the GM family...

I had a pleasant ownership time with my 2005 Chevy.  I JUMPED ship 4 times removed from GM  since 2005.  I bought a 2007 Ford for my wife.  I replaced that with a 2009 Mazda. And I replaced that with a 2013 Ford.  Its too early to tell what vehicle my lovely lady wants next...  And I myself DIRECTLY replaced my Chevy with an Acura. 

When time comes to replace either current vehicle, we wont be necessarily staying with the same family, nor jumping ship.  

Meaning, its not how you said it, the brands NOT doing their job for keeping brand royalty.  Its more about shopping around.  Its the SMARTEST thing to do.   

There are many facets to my anecdotal story. I hope someone could benefit from it. If not....a waste of time it may be.  So be it...

 

[smk4565]

Steve Carlisle has now said under $60k for Lyriq.  
 

Moving people from Chevy to Cadillac is great for GM maybe not great for the Chevy dealer if they don’t have a Cadillac dealership. 
 

I have a coworker with a 2015 F150 who is really interested in the Bronco.  That might be a move across rather than move up but I think there is a good amount of move up within a brand.

[surreal1272]

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The CLA goes to over $76,000.  And the CLA45 does the Nurburgring ring in 7:42 which is the same as the estimated time of the 640 hp CTS-V so it no doubt would spank the CT5-V.   If we do get a Blackwing CT5 I imagine it will edge out the CLA45, but not the bigger AMG’s.  

The CLA45 S did the time in 7:48 and seeing as how there was never an official ring time for the last gen CTS-V (2014-19), you cannot even say for certain what the time of a LARGER car (than the CLA) will be. I do know that the 2012 Cameron ZL1 does the time in a faster 7:41 time. Yes, a Chevy spanking Benz but shhhhhh, we don’t talk about that. Point here is, even your hypothetical bar moving doesn’t pass the mustard here.

 

Again, about the Lyric...

[ccap41]

"estimated time" GTFO with that. It's like a 13 mile track with 3000 turns. There's way too many variables to estimate a time like that. 

[balthazar]

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I have a coworker with a 2015 F150 who is really interested in the Bronco.  That might be a move across rather than move up but I think there is a good amount of move up within a brand.

Using your criteria, it's a move down; base F-150 MSRP in '21 is higher than the base Bronco MSRP.  No doubt the ATP will be higher on the F-150.

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

The CLA45 S did the time in 7:48 and seeing as how there was never an official ring time for the last gen CTS-V (2014-19), you cannot even say for certain what the time of a LARGER car (than the CLA) will be. I do know that the 2012 Cameron ZL1 does the time in a faster 7:41 time. Yes, a Chevy spanking Benz but shhhhhh, we don’t talk about that. Point here is, even your hypothetical bar moving doesn’t pass the mustard here.

 

Again, about the Lyric...

Correct on the 7:48 time for CLA45/A45, I think I miss read something.  But that would beat a current CT5-v in a battle of similar priced 4-doors.

24 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Using your criteria, it's a move down; base F-150 MSRP in '21 is higher than the base Bronco MSRP.  No doubt the ATP will be higher on the F-150.

Maybe, but those Broncos will be a hot item, they’ll sell for over sticker the first 6 months, Ford will have the 0% financing and cash back offers on F150 from day 1.  The average incentive on a full size truck in the USA is around $9,000.  They aren’t discounting Broncos I know that.

[balthazar]

Hard to discount something not currently on sale.

[ocnblu]

Who is this Cameron person?  He sure is fast.

[surreal1272]

18 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

The CLA45 S did the time in 7:48 and seeing as how there was never an official ring time for the last gen CTS-V (2014-19), you cannot even say for certain what the time of a LARGER car (than the CLA) will be. I do know that the 2012 Camaro ZL1 does the time in a faster 7:41 time. Yes, a Chevy spanking Benz but shhhhhh, we don’t talk about that. Point here is, even your hypothetical bar moving doesn’t pass the mustard here.

 

Again, about the Lyric...

To the smarta** in the back, I mean @ocnblu. Autocorrect fail that I didn’t catch in time. Since you were so concerned, it should have read 2012 CAMARO ZL1.

 

Thank you for your continued concern and support. You may now resume hugging your Donald Trump life size cut out. 

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Correct on the 7:48 time for CLA45/A45, I think I miss read something.  But that would beat a current CT5-v in a battle of similar priced 4-doors.

Maybe, but those Broncos will be a hot item, they’ll sell for over sticker the first 6 months, Ford will have the 0% financing and cash back offers on F150 from day 1.  The average incentive on a full size truck in the USA is around $9,000.  They aren’t discounting Broncos I know that.

Two things. First, the CT5-V is not the same top trim (power wise) as the previous gen CTS sedans, so that is a pointless comparisons. When the Blackwing comes out, then you its apples to apples. Second, like the last CTS-V, there isn’t a time for the CT5-V so again, your hypothetical bar moving means nothing.

[regfootball]

On 8/10/2020 at 2:44 PM, smk4565 said:

Cadillac needs a roomy mid-size sedan, their current sedans are too small inside.  With an EV they could get CT6 interior space in the footprint of a CT4 or CT5.  And I assume a big rear drive EV sedan is coming.
 

After Lyriq they need a smaller EV crossover, Escalade next gen should go EV only which would be in the 2027 timeframe so pretty far out there.  In the meantime they should do a luxury off roader or lifestyle type vehicle.  Cadillacs sell in the Midwest and in Texas where that sort of product works.

its interesting you say that.  The CT5 was supposed to provide more room and the front seat is super cramped.  maybe if cadillac had put out roomy cars without cue touchscreen issues and timing chain issues in the 2010's they wouldn't be in the situation they are in now.

it would also help to not have a bad c pillar design.

[balthazar]

CT5 has more front legroom than a mercedes CLA. Or C-class, e-class or s-class. Where, dimensionally, is it specifically ‘super cramped’?

[Robert Hall]

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

CT5 has more front legroom than a mercedes CLA. Or C-class, e-class or s-class. Where, dimensionally, is it specifically ‘super cramped’?

Maybe headroom for tall people that are long of torso?  I've sat in the CT4 and CT5 and found them comfortable...

[G. David Felt]

23 minutes ago, balthazar said:

CT5 has more front legroom than a mercedes CLA. Or C-class, e-class or s-class. Where, dimensionally, is it specifically ‘super cramped’?

While I could not get into the back of a CT5, I could with the chair all the way back and all the way down on the floor get into the front. My head did touch the roof, but I could get in and there was plenty of leg room.

[balthazar]

?

[G. David Felt]

I have to say that other than the upper half of the rear of this EV, the rest is really sharp and I love the front end. Watching this again just has me very excited for where Cadillac is going.

The comment from the Chinese engineer who grew up in China and how people watched movies with Cadillacs and the passion to own the Ultimate American Luxury auto. I can understand why this will be big in China more so than even here.

Love the auto open charge panel and the control to set and have the auto customized to the person who will drive it. The interior and the dash just kicks ass over anything German or Asian. Gotta love the AI dual screen Hud system.

Up, UP and Away!!! 

https://www.cadillac.com/showcar/lyriq?evar36=MRM_eml_cad_LYRIQ_Post_Reveal_0820_16600304536

That is just a Freaking BAD ASS AUTO.

Just finished watching it again and dawned on me how they talk about the center of gravity in the auto and power distribution and I can se the Hummer by GMC being a big hit as you have a raised up 4x4 truck or SUV.

I do question the comment about a aerodynamic backend that is squared off on interior space but still not square. Very weird comment.

[G. David Felt]

OK, totally missed the new features on the SuperCruise system till now. That is very cool including the hands free lane change that is added to SuperCruise.

[balthazar]

Saw online that about 150 Cadillac dealers (out of the total of 880) took the 'opt-out' package from GM to NOT be a future electric Cadillac dealer. These opt-out packages varied from (IIRC) $300K to $1000K.

It would be interesting to see a case study of the reasons these dealers decided to get out of the Cadillac game. Obviously it will reduce the number of Cadillac dealers to around 730 locations.

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Saw online that about 150 Cadillac dealers (out of the total of 880) took the 'opt-out' package from GM to NOT be a future electric Cadillac dealer. These opt-out packages varied from (IIRC) $300K to $1000K.

It would be interesting to see a case study of the reasons these dealers decided to get out of the Cadillac game. Obviously it will reduce the number of Cadillac dealers to around 730 locations.

It is a great way to shrink the number of underperforming dealers.  Hopefully, all the ones who took the opt-out are the smaller dealers that Cadillac no longer needs. 

Anyone knows how many dealers are with other luxury marques?

[balthazar]

Daimler.com says there's 383 mercedes dealers in the U.S., BMW has 348.
If it's logical to compare sales volumes vs. dealer outlets (and I'm not convinced it is) Cadillac may be over-represented.

However, I note; mrcedes & BMW are usually corporate stand-alones, whereas Cadillac is commonly paired with another GM brand. Per a mutli-brand GM dealership, Cadillac may not have to 1. sell the same volume/store, meanwhile 2. provides more convenience to buyers by being more plentiful. It may to be tough to reach a true comparison there.

[G. David Felt]

On 12/5/2020 at 11:29 AM, balthazar said:

Daimler.com says there's 383 mercedes dealers in the U.S., BMW has 348.
If it's logical to compare sales volumes vs. dealer outlets (and I'm not convinced it is) Cadillac may be over-represented.

However, I note; mrcedes & BMW are usually corporate stand-alones, whereas Cadillac is commonly paired with another GM brand. Per a mutli-brand GM dealership, Cadillac may not have to 1. sell the same volume/store, meanwhile 2. provides more convenience to buyers by being more plentiful. It may to be tough to reach a true comparison there.

I think there is also the East coast to west coast differences as the Cadillac dealers here are all stand alone in western Washington. Saw a mega Chevrolet, Buick, GMC Cadillac dealer in Spokane but the Cadillac still had it's own sales store compared to the other 3 were in the same building.

I honestly think it is good to pare down the underperforming Cadillac dealers.

[G. David Felt]

Cadillac Lyriq Mules are out and about being tested and they have been caught by photographers now.

This side by side comparison makes me wonder about the funky tail lights in the concept.