Review: 2020 Acura RDX A-Spec

[balthazar]

I glanced at the link above: that’s the C&D article I have. I skimmed over the MT article, and it largely agrees, reacting favorably. The MAIN issue with the Cimarron was that it was SO different than the traditional Cadillac, not that it was uncompetitive. Which it was according to the press.

[riviera74]

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

I glanced at the link above: that’s the C&D article I have. I skimmed over the MT article, and it largely agrees, reacting favorably. The MAIN issue with the Cimarron was that it was SO different than the traditional Cadillac, not that it was uncompetitive. Which it was according to the press.

Imagine if the original Cimarron had a Seville interior and the 2.8 v6 from day one.  That probably would have solved most of its problems.

[balthazar]

It did have full leather seating standard the first year, and gained the V6 in year 2.

Look- I'm not a fan of this car. I think the black/gold trimmed D'Oro package was a nice looking little car, but I'm not a fan of little cars. I still stand with my earlier post that the Cimarron was too far removed from the definition of a Cadillac THEN. I attach no such sentiment toward -say- the ATS when it came out, but that's 30 years later.

Perhaps if the Cimarron had followed the '85 Downsizing 2.0, but in '82, the Devilles were still REAL full-size BOF cruisers, and the shock was pretty huge.

There's nothing stylistically 'wrong'  or deficient with this car :

 

Here's a article from Automobile, on a then 25-year old Cimarron. If you brush past the lame joke attempts, he doesn't fault the car itself.
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/1986-cadillac-cimarron-v6/

Edited June 16, 2020 by balthazar

[riviera74]

You are right in that the Cimarron is too far away from what Cadillac was in '82.  In 1989 it probably would have fit in just fine.  The problem was was that Cadillac dealers were worried about potential customers wanting the 3 series and buying them instead of a Seville.  What those dealers did not realize is that those who wanted a BMW then did not want a Cadillac at all and should not have pushed so hard for a BMW fighter so quickly. 

This video that I found a few days ago spells out what happened to the Cimarron. 

 

[G. David Felt]

Funny that the Acura RDX along with the Mazda CX-5 are both on the DO NOT BUY list by JD Powers and Associate 2020 review.  

[ykX]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Funny that the Acura RDX along with the Mazda CX-5 are both on the DO NOT BUY list by JD Powers and Associate 2020 review.  

Care to provide link?

I couldn't find these ratings.

[balthazar]

Seville was an s-class / 7-series competitor, not a lowly 3-series.

[riviera74]

33 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Seville was an s-class / 7-series competitor, not a lowly 3-series.

Then explain the Deville and Fleetwood in those days.

[smk4565]

44 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Seville was an s-class / 7-series competitor, not a lowly 3-series.

Seville was far from that, in the 70s it was the entry Cadillac, in the early 80s is was like the middle Cadillac, and late 80s it was downsized and still like the middle or maybe sportier Cadillac compared to the bigger cushier Deville.  Nothing they made was an S-class competitor, an S-class was double the money of any Cadillac other than the Allante which was a bit closer price wise.  A 1988 560SEL started at $70k, a Cadillac Seville was like $28k back then.

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, ykX said:

Care to provide link?

I couldn't find these ratings.

I posted this in the Random forum.

 

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

Then explain the Deville and Fleetwood in those days.

Sure; BMW and Mercedes didn't field any competitors to them.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Seville was far from that, in the 70s it was the entry Cadillac, in the early 80s is was like the middle Cadillac

Incorrect.

Other than the Series 75, it was the the highest priced model.
In the '70s ('75-76) the entry model would've been the Calais.

[smk4565]

49 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Sure; BMW and Mercedes didn't field any competitors to them.

Incorrect.

Other than the Series 75, it was the the highest priced model.
In the '70s ('75-76) the entry model would've been the Calais.

OK, so a 1981 Seville was $23,000 and a Mercedes 380SEL was $44,300. 

1976 Seville was $12,500 and $22,500 for a 450SEL.  

Never competitors.

Edited June 17, 2020 by smk4565

[oldshurst442]

39 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Never competitors.

You are right, for a change.

Cadillac was ALWAYS a true luxury brand.

Mercedes sold and still sells to the common man. 

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

What self-respecting luxury car refers to itself as most economical fine? 

Luxury cars are all about SELF-INDULGENT, EXCESSIVE, NARCISSISTICALLY ARROGANT purchases.  

Contrary to what that advert is trying to convey, aint it?  And THAT is a W123 Mercedes...  A "luxury" car in the USA, but an econobox everywhere else in the world.   Hey...dont hate on me, dude. THAT is a MERCEDES BENZ advert for that car....

 

 

Ive done this argument  sooooooo many times on car forums (and in real life with my dumb ass Greek friends) that its easy to dig up material like this...     

Mercedes Benz...is more of a common man's car than it is a pure luxury car. Blame a certain mustachioed short man from the 1930s-1940s for that...    And you could thank good 'ole Yankee and British subsidized money for resurrecting Mercedes from the dead while you are at it... 

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

OK, so a 1981 Seville was $23,000 and a Mercedes 380SEL was $44,300. 

1976 Seville was $12,500 and $22,500 for a 450SEL.  

Never competitors.

Like I said- Seville was the highest priced and never an 'entry' model'.

S-class & Seville were routinely compared in the press. Despite the MB's higher price, it was a poorer, far less luxurious value. Seville ate into s-class sales in that era, having never competed in that segment; what was then called 'international-sized' sedans.
Mercedes continued to benchmark Cadillac, coping numerous amenities & features; a lo-ooong road of 'catch-up'. By the '90s, after 30+ years in the market, they finally got it right.

 

Well.... except for the value portion. It's hard to lose more money on a mainstream brand's model than at mercedes. That, they still ahve to work on, but in order to do so, they'd have to pump the brakes on the production lines (which they'd never, ever do).

Edited June 17, 2020 by balthazar

[smk4565]

33 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Like I said- Seville was the highest priced and never an 'entry' model'.

S-class & Seville were routinely compared in the press. Despite the MB's higher price, it was a poorer, far less luxurious value. Seville ate into s-class sales in that era, having never competed in that segment; what was then called 'international-sized' sedans.
Mercedes continued to benchmark Cadillac, coping numerous amenities & features; a lo-ooong road of 'catch-up'. By the '90s, after 30+ years in the market, they finally got it right.

 

Well.... except for the value portion. It's hard to lose more money on a mainstream brand's model than at mercedes. That, they still ahve to work on, but in order to do so, they'd have to pump the brakes on the production lines (which they'd never, ever do).

Cadillac sales peaked in the late 70s and were in steady decline in the 80s and Mercedes and BMW were on the rise.  With the Japanese coming in the 90s the sales drop continued. 

The 1981 Seville had the 135 hp 4100 V8.  The 380SEL had a 200 hp V8 with a 230 hp V8 in the 500SEL, more powerful than a Corvette of the day.  Mercedes didn't have to benchmark anyone, they had more power, they invented airbags, ABS, crumple zones, stability control, they used real wood trim, while the Americans used fake.  

The 1954 Mercedes 300SL was the first car with direct fuel injection, and the fastest car in the world when it came out.     Mercedes has the fastest car in the world in 1900-1909 decade as well.  Always been a pioneer in the automotive industry since inventing the freaking car in the first place. 

[oldshurst442]

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

automotive industry since inventing the freaking car in the first place. 

wrong

 

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes has the fastest car in the world in 1900-1909 decade as well.

wrong

 

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Always been a pioneer in the automotive industry

true. But so has Ford. Chevrolet. Dodge. Oldsmobile. Alfa Romeo. Buick. Renault. Among others. Oh...I forgot.

CADILLAC 

7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes didn't have to benchmark anyone

Wrong. They even benchmark Jeep...on many occasions i n the 1970s. Including when they merged with Chrysler...

9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

airbags,

wrong. So phoquing wrong.  Chrsyler, Ford and GM all experimented with airbags in the 1960s and 1970s and GM was the first domestic manufacturer to offer airbags in their cars in the early 1970s and Volvo actually beating them to the punch...

9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

ABS

wrong (that comes from the aerospace industry, but it aint even M-B that used ABS first on cars either...   Chrysler, Ford, Oldsmobile and Cadillac all had ABS in the early 1970s.  

21 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

crumple zones

Ill give you that one

 

22 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

stability control

wrong.  That would be Toyota...

23 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

they used real wood trim, while the Americans used fake

Are you phoquing kidding me?

Ford had its own phoquing  tree farms for Christ sakes...

26 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

more powerful than a Corvette of the day.

Early 1950s....sure.

But by the time 1959 rolled in, that 300SL was on the decline while the Corvette took flight.  It took 40 years for Mercedes to outdo a Corvette.  In 1989...this was M-B's pride and joy that stemmed from the original Gullwing.  A gold diggin' trophy wife car.  In 1990, the new SL came out and THAT is when Mercedes started to be on a roll in the US....  NOT before...  

In 1989...A Vette was King of the Hill.   Mercedes wasnt talked about in 1989...

 

34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

1954 Mercedes 300SL was the first car with direct fuel injection,

 The Vette got that in 1955.  The following year.  But in 1957,  the Bel Air had it too...   So did Chrysler.  I think in 1955 also.

Fuel injection was a German invention, sure. But fo aircraft engines in the 1920s and diesel engines.    Not a Mercedes Benz invention...  

 

Its amazing...of all of that .only ONE thing was correct.

Now...do you care to see what General Motor's contributions to the automotive world are?

Electric starter

AIRBAGS.  Yes..its a GM invention...

automatic transmission 

parts interchangeability

the standard of how we drive the damn car today and for the last 100 years.  ie. Brake pedal on the left. Accelerator pedal on the right, etc.

Catalytic converter

highway speed and safety barriers

Crash Test dummies

ON STAR  (for in-car communication and collection of data and  satellite connectivity in a car, etc)

First car radio

synchromesh manual transmission

power adjustable seats

rear window defroster

heated seats

first turbo in a car.  Although that too is an aerospace technology.

traction control.  (different form stability control)

Touchscreens 

first to offer Head up displays  (although that too, is an aerospace thing)

first to offer Night vision  (military tech)

Magnetic shocks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

But by the time 1959 rolled in, that 300SL was on the decline ...

The fuel injection was problematic, requiring dedicated mechanics to keep it operational.
But Daimler -as usual- wanted sales volume first & foremost, and they quickly sullied the SL nameplate with the 89-HP 4-cylinder 190SL, killing off the 300 coupe early in the '57 MY, then killing off the cheaper-to-build convertible after '62. For a 4-banger with 89 HP. That's closer to HALF the horsepower the Corvette had 10 years earlier!

Daimler basically did the opposite trajectory that the Corvette did. With the tri-carb inline 6, the Corvette in '54 alone outsold the entire run of daimler 300s, coupe & convertible combined,  from '54-63. The early SLs sold terribly; most years were around 200 units.

Edited June 17, 2020 by balthazar

[ykX]

11 hours ago, dfelt said:

I posted this in the Random forum.

 

And some one pointed back than also - there is NOWHERE where it says that CX-5 is rated at the bottom while saying that Mazda is rated well above average.

[smk4565]

Late 80s Mercedes SL prices are rapidly on the rise, not uncommon for those to sell over $30k and that car had 240 hp which was good for the 80s, a 4.9 V8 Cadillac had 200.  
 

Corvette wasn’t king on 1989, the Ferrari F40 was.  
 

But GM build quality is what did Cadillac in.   Now in 2020 everyone has pretty good build quality, even the worst car of today has more quality and safety than the best car 20 years ago.  
 

So for a Cadillac or Acura you have to have product performance and marketing to grow sales, no one is really just bleeding sales due to building terrible cars so that others can pick up sales by default.

[oldshurst442]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Corvette wasn’t king on 1989, the Ferrari F40 was.  

The F40 was also very very cheap on the inside.

Besides...different car.

Besides...Vettes also, albeit Callaway and Lingenfelter Vettes did over 200MPH, much like the F40...and those Vettes retained Corvette motors...

Besides, the 1989 Vette ZR1 was more in line with Ferrari 328s , much like how the Vette today is in line with a F8 Tributo...

I cant find the Motor Trend cover with big bold lettters...but here is a R&D mag link from 2014...

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/reviews/a5975/1990-chevrolet-corvette-zr-1-drive-flashback/

Quote

 

Drive Flashback: 1990 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1

World-class performance to counter the Countach and tackle the Testarossa.

They get no respect, those American-made sports cars. Especially in Europe, where performance, handling, and exclusivity—not catchy ad slogans—determine the true meaning of a car's worth. Sure, the Swiss buy Detroit-built sedans and wagons, but one suspects it's an affectation—like wearing denims with your Giorgio Armani jacket. Truth is, most European automotive enthusiasts have little regard for almost any automobile America has produced in recent memory.

But with the introduction of the Corvette ZR-1—at the 1989 Geneva Auto Show, of all places—that attitude is about to change.

You may know the ZR-1 as the King of the Hill, which is what this Super Vette was com­monly called when the program was barely more than a rumor. For
reasons known only to GM brass, that name is now taboo. Our guess is that Chevy, who's seeking international recog­nition, found the name too domestic, not
to mention too long, for a car badge—and untranslatable (Le mi de la monlagne? Non. Der Konig am Hiigel? Nein ). Better to keep it simple, short, and
sweet. And alphanumeric so as to capital­ize on its similarity to other European exotics such as the BMW M1 and Ferrari F40.

 

"Truth is, most European automotive enthusiasts have little regard for almost any automobile America has produced in recent memory."

sounds like you...

Quote

 

But GM build quality is what did Cadillac in.   Now in 2020 everyone has pretty good build quality, even the worst car of today has more quality and safety than the best car 20 years ago.  
 

So for a Cadillac or Acura you have to have product performance and marketing to grow sales, no one is really just bleeding sales due to building terrible cars so that others can pick up sales by default.

 

Get a new angle going...its 2020.  Move on from it or just stop posting this shyte. 

Hey...continue believing in it if you want to...I just dont feel like listening to this shytty rhetoric any more...Its getting tiresome... 

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

 

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Corvette wasn’t king on 1989, the Ferrari F40 was.  

The F40 was also very very cheap on the inside.

Same link

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/reviews/a5975/1990-chevrolet-corvette-zr-1-drive-flashback/

But is it, as Chevy hopes, a world-class car? (The envelope, please!)

Yes. The Corvette ZR-1 acquits itself well amidst some very fast company. Yet it does so with a level of sophistication and comfort be­yond what most
exotics (but not specialty cars such as the Porsche 959) currently deliver. Throw in availability and serviceability (the GM-CAMS computer diagnostic
system, man­datory service equipment for all ZR-1 dealers), and you have a car that offers the best of the old and the new world.

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a15114543/1989-chevrolet-corvette-z51-vs-porsche-911-archived-comparison-test/

 

Quote

 

The Checkered Flag

We have arrived at the moment of truth, and truth does not favor the 911 Club Sport. Don't misunderstand: this Porsche is a delightful automobile, the nicest 911 we've ever driven. It has a sweet, mechanical disposition and a rev-me-forever engine. Its exhaust note is an exotic cross between the world's largest Hoover and a Group C race car. But when you reach for the air conditioner, it's not there. When you want some music, it's not there. When you want to pop open the sunroof, it's not there. The Club Sport is an interesting experiment, but it pales under the harsh light of common sense. Its performance advantage over a standard 911 Carrera is anything but clear, so what's the point? Only an inside-out Porsche nutball would pony up the price of a Carrera for a 911 lacking major comfort items. That may explain why Porsche Cars North America has imported only twenty 911 Club Sports for sale.

We are left with the winner: the car that turned in the big numbers and handled the high pressure with maximum class. We hereby proclaim the Chevrolet Corvette Z51 the Ace of Clubs.

 

 

Let me remind you , Road and Track, Car and Driver, and sometimes Motor Trend...were NEVER that friendly towards American cars in the 1980s and 1990s.  And here you got, R&D and C&D...with VERY FAVOURABLE reviews for the ZR1 and Z51 of 1989 and 1988(9) respectively from articles of the day...

I said this before, NEVER BAD MOUTH THE VETTE.  

Ill say THIS again.  REFRAIN to bad mouth Cadillac. Im getting sick of it.  Believe it all you want. Stop printing it on here...I dont wanna read it anymore. I dont want to become bulimic...

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

The F40 was also very very cheap on the inside.

Same link

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/reviews/a5975/1990-chevrolet-corvette-zr-1-drive-flashback/

But is it, as Chevy hopes, a world-class car? (The envelope, please!)

Yes. The Corvette ZR-1 acquits itself well amidst some very fast company. Yet it does so with a level of sophistication and comfort be­yond what most
exotics (but not specialty cars such as the Porsche 959) currently deliver. Throw in availability and serviceability (the GM-CAMS computer diagnostic
system, man­datory service equipment for all ZR-1 dealers), and you have a car that offers the best of the old and the new world.

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a15114543/1989-chevrolet-corvette-z51-vs-porsche-911-archived-comparison-test/

 

 

Let me remind you , Road and Track, Car and Driver, and sometimes Motor Trend...were NEVER that friendly towards American cars in the 1980s and 1990s.  And here you got, R&D and C&D...with VERY FAVOURABLE reviews for the ZR1 and Z51 of 1989 and 1988(9) respectively from articles of the day...

I said this before, NEVER BAD MOUTH THE VETTE.  

Ill say THIS again.  REFRAIN to bad mouth Cadillac. Im getting sick of it.  Believe it all you want. Stop printing it on here...I dont wanna read it anymore. I dont want to become bulimic...

30 years later the Corvette is still good performance per dollar, still a very good car for the money.  But it is what it is, it kind of splits the middle of Porsche 718/Cayman and 911.  In now way is it one of the top sports cars out there, nor should it be with it's price, brand and mission.

All the top sports car come form Europe:

Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bugatti, Koenigsegg, Aston Martin, McLaren, and whatever top AMG car they put out.  Porsche Carerra GT and 918, etc.  Sure, every 10 years or so you get a limited run of a Ford GT or Acura NSX, Lexus  LFA, etc but look how few top sports cars come out of Asia and America.  

[balthazar]

6 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Late 80s Mercedes SL prices are rapidly on the rise...

I question that : the build quality & engineering is awful. VERY cheaply built.

[smk4565]

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

I question that : the build quality & engineering is awful. VERY cheaply built.

And yet there are so many left on the road after 35 years.

[oldshurst442]

48 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And yet there are so many left on the road after 35 years.

There is virtually NO SL Mercedes cars on the road from 35 years ago.  The few there are left, are garage queens.  The ones that are not...were scrapped a loooong time ago.

Corvettes are the ones to be still on the road.  In any condition, you will find them.  Why? Because they run.  They run forever. Cut that shyte out!  Mercedes cars are NOT built to last.  The W123 was. The E Class replacements were.  Because TAXI service.  But the others are junk!   I really dont get this idea where you think Mercedes cars are built to last?    I dont even think the G-wagon is built to last...

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bugatti, Koenigsegg, Aston Martin, McLaren, and whatever top AMG

 

Ford GT or Acura NSX, Lexus  LFA, etc but look how few top sports cars come out of Asia and America.  

All BOUTIQUE marques.

Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bugatti, McLaren, Porsche...  THAT IS ALL THEY DO, Is SPORTS CARS.    Are you really serious when you are talking to me. Or are you trolling me?    Seriously...  

Ford, Honda (because anywere else in the world other than the US and possibly the Emirates now,  Acuras are just Hondas...) Toyota/Lexus are FULL LINE regular folk marques... 

But...

A Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 at that time, and its still a top Nurburgring  lap champ, was faster than Porsche GT2 RS.  A  very dedicated track car on its home turf, and the Camaro ZL1 1LE kicked its ass...

 

Yeah...I know...Porsche brought out better track cars.

OF COURSE THEY DID!

THEY GOT EMBARRASSED THAT A LOWLY CHEVY KICKED ITS ASS ON ITS HOME TURF...

A MAKER OF PIG SUVS AND MUSCLE CARS THAT CANT TURN KICKED PORSCHE"S ASS ON ITS HOME TURF TRACK. THE VAUNTED 'RING!!!  NOT EVEN THE CORVETTE>  THE CAMARO OF ALL THINGS!!!  A PORKY MUSCLE CAR CAMARO KICKED PORSCHE 911GT2 RS TRACK ORIENTED SUPERCAR'S ASS ON THE RING...

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a10206481/the-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-1le-blitzed-the-nurburgring-in-71604/

 

Quote

 

Oh, and while the ZL1 can be had with a 10-speed automatic, the 1LE package only offers one transmission: A six-speed manual. For reference, the "regular" ZL1 lap time, the one the 1LE trounced by more than 13 seconds, was set with an automatic.

In addition to beating the normal ZL1's time, the 1LE managed to get around the 'Ring faster than performance cars like the Nissan GT-R, Ferrari 488 GTB, and previous-generation 911 GT2 RS. This thing is wildly quick.

According to Chevrolet, the lap was done on production-spec Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3R tires, and driven by Camaro ride and handling engineer Bill Wise.

Don't forget, the ZL1 1LE starts at just $69,995, meaning the value for performance is off the charts.

Watch the full lap right here.

 

 

 

Remember...THAT is ALL Porsche does...  Is do track cars, especially track cars focused to track on the 'Ring...

Its a BOUTIQUE manufacturer that ONLY makes sports cars... Well...now they have become SUV makers. But that discussion is for another day...

http://www.autoextremist.com/current/?currentPage=2

Quote

 

Why should this Porsche be any more significant than previous Porsche special editions? After all, it is no secret that Porsche has the most usurious pricing strategy/option list in the business, and it never hesitates to exploit its fan base to extract every last dollar possible. The operatives at Porsche are the preeminent greed merchants in this industry, and that's saying something when there's an industry full of 'em. Limited to 992 models worldwide, the 2021 Porsche 911 Targa 4S Heritage Design Edition is supposed to evoke memories of Porsche models from the 50s. This is what Oliver Blume, Chairman of the Executive Board of Porsche AG had to say about it: “We are evoking memories of the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and 1980s in customers and fans with the Heritage Design models. No brand can translate these elements into the modern day as well as Porsche, and, along the way, we’re fulfilling the wishes of our customers. With the exclusive special editions, we are also establishing a new product line which represents the ‘lifestyle’ dimension in our product strategy.

 

Really? Let's stop right there, because when Porsche starts talking about "lifestyle dimensions" the brand is in serious trouble. I am not going to bother to regurgitate all of the "exclusive" details, because they're too tedious and contrived to mention, but suffice to say, this brand direction is a new low for Porsche. How much? The 2021 911 Targa 4S Heritage Design Edition has an MSRP of $180,600, not including a $1,350 delivery, processing and handling fee. It is expected to reach U.S. dealers in late 2020. Along with the introduction of the special edition, certain interior elements will be available as part of the Heritage Design package for all current 911 models. But wait, if you really want to be The Biggest Tool in the Shed, Porsche Design has created a high-quality chronograph, also a limited edition, which will be offered for sale exclusively to customers purchasing the special model. The 911 Targa 4S Heritage Design edition chronograph will set you back another $14,000, and it can be purchased at authorized Porsche dealers exclusively by owners (aka The Biggest Tools) of the 911 Targa 4S Heritage Design Edition. 

It's no secret that when auto manufacturers start playing out the string with a brand, they start coming up with special editions to extract every last dollar out of their brand faithful. Porsche is no different in that regard. What’s different here is the at the same time Porsche is walking away from its “lifeblood” – which is competing at the top level of international GT racing – it is openly talking about the new “lifestyle dimension” of its product strategy. It’s an ominous move in the wrong direction. Nicely done Porsche, you unmitigated hacks.

As I said earlier, nothing is guaranteed in this business and indeed, nothing lasts forever. But when you’re a top brand and you lose focus, it’s damn-near unforgivable in my book. And a giant bowl of Not Good.

And that’s the High-Octane Truth for this week.

 

 

 

 

I wouldnt want Chevy to ONLY concentrate on sport cars if I were you. Chevy would make you cry... 

 

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

 In now way is it one of the top sports cars out there, nor should it be with it's price, brand and mission.

All the top sports car come form Europe:

 

 

[oldshurst442]

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

There is virtually NO SL Mercedes cars on the road from 35 years ago. The few there are left, are garage queens.  The ones that are not...were scrapped a loooong time ago.

I am soooo wrong.  The few that are left, all have been LS swapped...

https://www.streetmusclemag.com/features/car-features/sophistication-meet-power-the-ls1-swapped-benz-vette/

https://engineswapdepot.com/?p=2146

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15342583/pagoda-style-meets-corvette-power-in-mysterious-1965-mercedes-benz-230sl/

https://bringatrailer.com/2015/08/20/ls-swapped-euro-1984-mercedes-benz-280sl/

This one has been 2JayZe-ed   LOL

http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/12/500sl-like-youve-never-seen-heard/

This link here...is VERY VERY telling. It has MULTIPLE stories of M-B SL swaps...

https://engineswapdepot.com/?cat=527

Quote

Cam Clerx enjoys driving his 1980 Mercedes 450SL but grew tired of the factory V8 leaving him stranded. So he sent the convertible to Robert Rubio and his team at Sideways Performance for a powertrain upgrade. There they replaced the Mercedes engine and transmission with a turbocharged 2.5 L 1JZ-GTE VVTi inline-six and Toyota automatic … Read more

 

The next one is an LS 6.0 liter swap from a Chevy 2500HD Pick-up...

FROM A CHEVY PICK-UP TRUCK...

 

 

Quote

 

1974 Mercedes 450SL with a 6.0 L LSx V8 – Part 2

April 4, 2019 by swaptastic Leave a Comment

Metalman 329 returns with an update on his 1974 Mercedes 450SL (R107) build series. The project’s goal is to install a 6.0 L LSx V8 (Vortec 6000) from a Chevy 2500HD truck. One change to original plan since the previous video is going with a Mercedes transmission instead of using a GM 4L60E or 4L80E … Read more

Posted in: 450SL, R107

 

 

This one has a phoquing NISSAN 3.1 liter 6...  How phoquing pathetic is THAT for Mercedes' pride and joy to have a phoquing Nissan 3.1 liter 6 swap?   

 

Quote

 

1982 Mercedes with a Nissan L28

November 8, 2016 by swaptastic 4 Comments

 

This 1982 Mercedes 500 SL convertible might have left the factory with a 5.0 L V8 but it now has a inline-six. The current motor is a Nissan L28 inline-six that has been increased to 3.1 L. The engine now runs a MoTeC fuel injection system and ECU. I wasn’t able to determine if the five-speed manual transmission was Mercedes or Nissan but since the rear end is a R200 LSD it probably safe to assume it’s a Nissan unit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

@smk4565

Dont feel bad...

 

 

Even the Camaro got LS swapped.  

OH WAIT....

Edited June 18, 2020 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

The Camaro ZL1 has a 7:16 Nürburgring ring time while the 911 GT2 did it in 6:47.  Pretty big gap there.

 

As far as LS swapping goes, it is a cheap motor and easy to swap in cars, good packaging and easy to work on.  And LS engines are good, reliable engines.

[oldshurst442]

Yeah...now the GT2 does that. The ZL1 1LE embarassed Porsche so Porsche engineered another to beat the Camaro. In any case,  Chevrolet has no business (according to you) to produce highly specialized and fast track cars...   especially being faster than German and European sports cars.  And yet,  Chevrolet and America did just that.   

12 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And LS engines are good, reliable engines.

Yup...

I wonder why literally nobody swaps German V8s into their dream cars...especially AMG V8s into Mercedes products?

 

Quote

Cam Clerx enjoys driving his 1980 Mercedes 450SL but grew tired of the factory V8 leaving him stranded. So he sent the convertible to Robert Rubio and his team at Sideways Performance for a powertrain upgrade. There they replaced the Mercedes engine and transmission with a turbocharged 2.5 L 1JZ-GTE VVTi inline-six and Toyota automatic...

and...

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yeah...now the GT2 does that. The ZL1 1LE embarassed Porsche so Porsche engineered another to beat the Camaro. In any case,  Chevrolet has no business (according to you) to produce highly specialized and fast track cars...   especially being faster than German and European sports cars.  And yet,  Chevrolet and America did just that.   

Yup...

I wonder why literally nobody swaps German V8s into their dream cars...especially AMG V8s into Mercedes products?

 

and...

 

Aston Martin uses AMG V8s.  No one swaps an AMG V8 into an old car because of cost.  Also I am not sure if they even sell a crate motor version.  
 

Also I never said Chevy has no business building a sports car or that they didn’t have some fast cars.  I am saying America should build something faster or more than just Corvette, because Camaro/Mustang are not super cars.  But American car companies only see profits in pickups and crossovers.

 

And the 911 ran the Nurburgring in 6:47 in 2017, a year before the Camaro did it in 7:16.  
 

The Lamborghinis are both low 6:40’s, that is the benchmark we are looking for to be elite.  And even if AMG One is under 6 minutes, under 7 minutes would still be in the elite club.

[balthazar]

31 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

No one swaps an AMG V8 into an old car because of cost.

Like mercedes vehicles in general, there are many many better choices for more power, greater reliability and less inflated cost. AMG motors are money pits.

[oldshurst442]

12 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 I am saying America should build something faster or more than just Corvette

Corvettes ARE just about the fastest things around...

When a new Vette comes out, it sets the bar and the others meat and and beat it.

The Stingray C8 does that. The Stingray is fastest in its SEGMENT. Not the 911 Turbo, but the base 911.

Base for base.

The Z06 and Grand Sport targets the 911 Turbo.  You have a habit of comparing BASE Corvettes with mind numbing performing, top of the line versions of the Vette's competitors.

And when others show you what top of the line Corvettes do...you dismiss and say stuff like

20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

something faster or more than just Corvette,

How much faster do you want?   

The BASE C8 does 0-60 in 2.8-2.9 seconds...

1/4 mile in 11.2 seconds @ 122MPH  

A TICK shy of 200MPH.  (195)  That is on a BASE Corvette

A 911 Turbo S 2019 because 2020 911 Turbo S aint out yet just as the Z06 aint out yet...

GRAND SPORT, ZR1 and ZORA to come...

0-60   2.6 seconds

1/4 mile in 10.5 seconds 

and a tick north of 200MPH  (205)

 

You want a hypercar from General Motors?

OK...fair enough. The ZORA

And the ZORA will be sell in low low numbers.   NOT  MUCH DIFFERENT THAN HYPERCARS FROM FERRARI, LAMBORGHINI, AMG-ONE...  (275 units for a one-time shot...)  You act like hypercars from other makers are a dime a dozen and being re-made into new generations every year...

The 918 from Porsche was a 2year run.  NO REPLACEMENT

The LaFerrari was a 3 year run.  The FXX-K is RELATED to the LaFERRARI. Only 40 built and that only latest 2 years.Now, there is a NEW one, well, new name...the FXX-K EVO since 2017.  In total,  8 years on the SAME platform,  just improved DIFFERENT names...

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

But American car companies only see profits in pickups and crossovers.

Yeah...kinda like Porsche.  But hey!  THAT is a smart move for Porsche, a BOUTIQUE SPORTS CAR MAKER but a negative move for Chevrolet.  A FULL LINE automobile and TRUCK maker for OVER 100 years...

 

PS: You DO you know that CHEVROLET backs and engineers, licenses, ENCOURAGES that HOT RODDING and AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCES of THEIR SPORTS CARS, right?

IN ESSENCE, MAKING ALL THOSE HOMEMADE FAST CORVETTES and CAMAROS AND BEL AIRS/IMPALAS and CHEVELLES on the track, dragstrip, car shows,   GM AND CHEVROLET HYPERCARS!!!

 

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

 Also I am not sure if they even sell a crate motor version.  

Dont know. Dont really car either.

Chevrolet, not only offers a WIDE variety of crate motors, 20-25 different versions of their V8 that one could buy JUST by visiting a Chevrolet dealership, or even better, order online but Chevrolet ALLOWS tuners like Lingenfelter and Callaway and engine builders like Edelbrock to further enhance their V8 and allows them to sell it. Chevrolet FULLY licenses and backs this up IMMENSELY.

Chevrolet allows suspension modders and computer chip modders to do their thing on their V8s and  licenses others to produce classic body shells of their classic cars and Chevrolet licenses these cars to be modernized.  

All those restomodded 1970 Chevelles and 1969 Camaros  and C2/C3 and C5/C6/C7  Corvettes with crate motor LS engines tuned by Lingenfelter ot re-built by Edelbrock with modern suspension set-ups that outperform Ferraris on the dragstrip and track and the like are IN ESSENCE...ALL CHEVROLET SUPERCARS AND HYPERCARS...

Chevrolet beats up on the competition STRAIGHT from the factory or GRASS ROOTS...and it dont matter to Chevy or Chevy owners how the Corvette beats up on the competition...

But you just dont get it...and never will Im afraid.

Edited June 18, 2020 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Corvettes ARE just about the fastest things around...

When a new Vette comes out, it sets the bar and the others meat and and beat it.

The Stingray C8 does that. The Stingray is fastest in its SEGMENT. Not the 911 Turbo, but the base 911.

Base for base.

You want a hypercar from General Motors?

OK...fair enough. The ZORA

2020 Corvette Z51 is 7:30 on the Nurburgring 

2020 Porsche 911 Carrera S is 7:25 on the Nurburgring.  

There is an even trim level comparison.

And my hope with Zora is that it is an all-in effort and not designed to a price.  Like a Ford GT is $500k, I like they engineered the car first and priced it 2nd.  GM tends to price first and engineer 2nd which means budget cuts, see CT6 as an example.

But still we have Camaro, Corvette, Mustang from America, NSX from Japan (although I think it is made in USA), a super aging GT-R from Japan and a Supra made by Germans.  How do 2 continents produce 5 sports cars?  Ferrari alone probably has 5 cars.  

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Dont know. Dont really car either.

Chevrolet, not only offers a WIDE variety of crate motors, 20-25 different versions of their V8 that one could buy JUST by visiting a Chevrolet dealership, or even better, order online but Chevrolet ALLOWS tuners like Lingenfelter and Callaway and engine builders like Edelbrock to further enhance their V8 and allows them to sell it. Chevrolet FULLY licenses and backs this up IMMENSELY.

Chevrolet allows suspension modders and computer chip modders to do their thing on their V8s and  licenses others to produce classic body shells of their classic cars and Chevrolet licenses these cars to be modernized.  

All those restomodded 1970 Chevelles and 1969 Camaros  and C2/C3 and C5/C6/C7  Corvettes with crate motor LS engines tuned by Lingenfelter ot re-built by Edelbrock with modern suspension set-ups that outperform Ferraris on the dragstrip and track and the like are IN ESSENCE...ALL CHEVROLET SUPERCARS AND HYPERCARS...

Chevrolet beats up on the competition STRAIGHT from the factory or GRASS ROOTS...and it dont matter to Chevy or Chevy owners how the Corvette beats up on the competition...

But you just dont get it...and never will Im afraid.

All Chevy and GM do for the tuner market is great and probably profitable for them too.  But that is a separate issue than lack of sports cars or super cars built buy American car companies or lack of performance SUVs coming from America or Japan.

This Acura has 272 hp, there are at least a dozen European SUVs with over 500 hp.  There is Road & Track article about how there was going to be an Omega SUV with a Blackwing V8, but the GM top brass killed it and we got cheap to produce Cadillac Acadia instead.  That’s my issue with American and Japanese luxury cars, underneath most those “luxury/performance” cars is a Camry, Pilot or Acadia chassis.

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

2020 Corvette Z51 is 7:30 on the Nurburgring 

2020 Porsche 911 Carrera S is 7:25 on the Nurburgring.  

And?

Corvette's dont live and die on the Nurburgring. Porsche's do...  

The Z51 is NOT a track focused sportscar.  Its actually a GT car.   

Corvettes are not exactly targeted, marketed and engineered to compete DIRECTLY with Porsche 911s model for model  and Porsche 911s are NOT exactly targeted, marketed and engineered to compete DIRECTLY with Corvettes model for model...

Each car has a target market in their HOME market and sell to THAT criteria. 

The C4 Corvette had 1 trim. Then in 1989 gained another. Then in the mid 1990s had 3.  Base, (Z51 option) Grand Sport and ZR1 and then the ZR1 was ended leaving the C4 with 2 models.   The C5 only had 2. The BASE (Z51 option)and the Z06.  The C6 had 4. The C7 had 4 and the C8 will have 4.  The Porsche 911 since the 1990s has had COUNTLESS of models doing countless of jobs.

In the 1980s, it had 3 or 4. 

Problem with YOUR thinking is that Porsche is a BOUTIQUE SPORTS CAR maker.

Chevrolet is a FULL LINE automobile and truck maker.  

11 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And my hope with Zora is that it is an all-in effort and not designed to a price.

It will be an all-in effort.  With ALL the big bang, wizz wang tech of the day.  BUT...it WILL have compromises.  Yes to a price. 

An AMG-ONE costs 2 point something million to buy.  A Vette is NOT an AMG-One or Ford GT.  A Vette is a...Vette.  You want a multi-million dollar Vette?  Customize it,  hot rod it, tune it...ON YOUR OWN!!!

But it wont be anything related to speed, performance and technology.  Dont expect it to have exotic leathers in it. Or extra special paint jobs... Maybe on the Zora, it might have personalized touches built to a personalized specific  car. 

 

[oldshurst442]

7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

All Chevy and GM do for the tuner market is great and probably profitable for them too.  But that is a separate issue than lack of sports cars or super cars built buy American car companies or lack of performance SUVs coming from America or Japan.

Nope. 

Chevy sponsors its racing program. Corvette engineers work closely with the Racing Team  that builds and races the Corvette Racer and the Corvette Racing program DIRECTLY influences the factory Corvette which in turn DIRECTLY influences what Chevrolet and the tuner/hot rod market offers in the aftermarket...

20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 Ferrari alone probably has 5 cars.  

Boutique sports car maker for close to 100 years.

21 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But still we have Camaro, Corvette, Mustang from America, NSX from Japan (although I think it is made in USA), a super aging GT-R from Japan and a Supra made by Germans

Chevrolet.  Full line vehicles.

Honda.  Is probably the MOST diverse. Motorcycles. Automobiles. Lawnmowers. Generators. Robotics. Jets. Marine engines. 

Ferrari is a one trick pony.  Not a bad thing. Its just what they do. Sports cars.

Chevy, Ford, Honda. Are diverse. Not a bad thing. Its just what they do.  

Ford Raptor.  You know...NOTHING that Ferrari, Porsche or Lamborghini do, can do what a Ford Raptor does.  There is NOTHING in their arsenal that competes with a Ford Raptor...  

Can a Porsche 911 AWD straight from the factory crawl rocks or super speed through rough terrain? 

NOPE!

 

 

 

[oldshurst442]

34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 There is Road & Track article about how there was going to be an Omega SUV with a Blackwing V8, but the GM top brass killed it and we got cheap to produce Cadillac Acadia instead

You read that wrong...or being very disingenuous on why the Black-Wing V8 program was cut. 

Slow sales of sedans due to market shift to CUVs.   

Program would have lost tons of money because the Omega NEEDS BOTH SEDANS AND CUVs to be BUILT to be PROFITABLE.

GM is in the business to MAKE money.

Money cant be bleeding because OTHER programs like the C8 Corvette and the BOF trucks and SUVs needed to be advanced. (The bankruptcy DID have an effect of those programs and the lack of R&D funds BECAUSE of the bankruptcy tends to AFFECT some other iffy money making projects...such as the Omega.)

The Escalade makes TONS of cash for Cadillac. Cadillac NEEDS the Escalade to fund the iffy Omega project. The iffy Omega project CAN make money if ALL the stars are aligned properly.   A shift in the market meant that the Omega sedans wouldnt be selling enough units to equally balance the CUV engineering of Omega to push forward iffy Black-wing V8 offerings. 

THAT and EVs were ALWAYS on the table for Cadillac EVEN WHEN Johan was there.

So...it was either making the Escalade the BEST it could be, or cheapening IT out to subsidize an even more cheapening of Omega models and risk flubbing EVs in the process...and...goiing back to square one and ALWAYS doing things shytty JUST to  pursue sales or...

Scuttling Omega, scuttling the Blackwing V8 and cutting/limiting your losses and doing a PROPER Escalade with PROPER R&D money for the EVs...

The article stated that the CT4 and CT5 had Johan's fingerprints all over them. And it shows.  Where the CT6 was debuted with a not so standard of the world interior, the CT4 and CT5 are EXACTLY on par with Audi in  that the interiors of the CT4 and CT5 are now WORTHY of the moniker "standard of the world".

The Escalade WILL BE Cadillac worthy...

AND THAT IS WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN BY THAT ARTICLE...

Besides,iIsnt that what you constantly bitch about Cadillac? That its interiors are sub-par.  Here, you have a correction made by Cadillac management to do the right thing and you STILL bitch about it..

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

57 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

This Acura has 272 hp, there are at least a dozen European SUVs with over 500 hp

THAT is NOT what the NSX is all about.

Its about TECHNOLOGY.

Its about fun to drive.

It aint about high horsepower.  

The NSX is a MARVEL to throw around curves and just drive fast or to cruise around in.  Not meant to be a barn burner. The original NSX wasnt a barn burner either.    The NSX's mission (original and now) was to showcase technology and to focus on driving characteristics rather than brute force.  (With reliability at the forefront).  The NSX of today succeeds in that regard.   People just dont remember the past too good.   People, much like yourself, just have one specific idea stuck in their minds and cant understand the whole story.  Or choose not too.   And perhaps is the reason why the new NSX is failing in the marketplace. 

Maybe it was a mistake for Honda to go that route rather than a Hellcat kinda way...I dunno know

Alls I know, is I dont fault the NSX for what it is.  I like it.  If Id want brute force, the Hellcat is always there for me...

 

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

You read that wrong...or being very disingenuous on why the Black-Wing V8 program was cut. 

Slow sales of sedans due to market shift to CUVs.   

Program would have lost tons of money because the Omega NEEDS BOTH SEDANS AND CUVs to be BUILT to be PROFITABLE.

GM is in the business to MAKE money.

They could have made Omega platform SUVs with a Blackwing V8 that cost more than the Escalade and had potentially an even bigger profit margin.   Although they would have needed an Omega SUV priced below Escalade also to get volume and enough scale on the platform.  Lots of ways to make money, but obviously the platform is dead so it doesn't matter much now.

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

THAT is NOT what the NSX is all about.

Its about TECHNOLOGY.

Its about fun to drive.

It aint about high horsepower.  

The NSX is a MARVEL to throw around curves and just drive fast or to cruise around in.  Not meant to be a barn burner. The original NSX wasnt a barn burner either.    The NSX's mission (original and now) was to showcase technology and to focus on driving characteristics rather than brute force.  (With reliability at the forefront).  The NSX of today succeeds in that regard.   People just dont remember the past too good.   People, much like yourself, just have one specific idea stuck in their minds and cant understand the whole story.  Or choose not too.   And perhaps is the reason why the new NSX is failing in the marketplace. 

Maybe it was a mistake for Honda to go that route rather than a Hellcat kinda way...I dunno know

Alls I know, is I dont fault the NSX for what it is.  I like it.  If Id want brute force, the Hellcat is always there for me...

 

 

 

 

NSX is fine as is.  Of course products such as the RDX and the MDX will have to provide the necessary cash to maintain and fund the NSX.

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They could have made Omega platform SUVs with a Blackwing V8 that cost more than the Escalade and had potentially an even bigger profit margin.   Although they would have needed an Omega SUV priced below Escalade also to get volume and enough scale on the platform.  Lots of ways to make money, but obviously the platform is dead so it doesn't matter much now.

Maybe you should apply for a CEO job at Cadillac?

 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

THAT is NOT what the NSX is all about.

Its about TECHNOLOGY.

Its about fun to drive.

It aint about high horsepower.  

The NSX is a MARVEL to throw around curves and just drive fast or to cruise around in.  Not meant to be a barn burner. The original NSX wasnt a barn burner either.    The NSX's mission (original and now) was to showcase technology and to focus on driving characteristics rather than brute force.  (With reliability at the forefront).  The NSX of today succeeds in that regard.   People just dont remember the past too good.   People, much like yourself, just have one specific idea stuck in their minds and cant understand the whole story.  Or choose not too.   And perhaps is the reason why the new NSX is failing in the marketplace. 

Maybe it was a mistake for Honda to go that route rather than a Hellcat kinda way...I dunno know

Alls I know, is I dont fault the NSX for what it is.  I like it.  If Id want brute force, the Hellcat is always there for me...

 

 

 

 

But is an Acura SUV fun to drive?  

They sell like 250 NSX per year or something low.  So for the masses that want fun to drive, or want a sports car but need a family hauler and need 1 vehicle to do both, Acura doesn't have it.  The Germans and Alfa Romeo and JLR to can all sell you an SUV that performs like a sports car.    Which is why I think a Mustang Mach E could do well because I bet a lot of people want a Mustang but don't buy it because they worry about RWD in the snowball, or need a to put car seats in it, or fit adults in the back seat, etc, so they go buy an SUV instead.

[oldshurst442]

37 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But is an Acura SUV fun to drive?

Who is talking about SUVs being fun to drive?

Acura still sells sedans and the NSX. And are righting the ship that Porsche failed to see. 

Porsche builds CUVs now too...    And all of them are NOT fun to drive....    Their sedan is a bloated, heavy, ugly thing.  Not fun to drive either.   Its sad when Porsche has to remind folk at the  Super Bowl that they build fast exciting supercars with a fake "exciting" heist advert/movie thing...  Pathetic

37 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 So for the masses that want fun to drive, or want a sports car but need a family hauler and need 1 vehicle to do both, Acura doesn't have it.

Acura/Honda does well enough.

Honda also makes motorcycles.  Speedbikes.  Cruisers.   They got the NSX.  They got the new TLX.  The Civic Si.  They got their bases covered.    Again, Porsche  or Ferrari dont have ANYTHING this Honda does...

37 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

can all sell you an SUV that performs like a sports car.

They dont perform like a sports car. They are impressive. But they dont perform like a PURE sports car.  And to be honest, its all that electronic wizz bang technology that makes these SUVs perform which at the same time,  is EXACTLY the problem...  

1. SUVs are heavy. High center of gravity.  #1 and #2 reasons why that kills fun to drive.

2. SUVs have electronic nannies helping speed and performance and  preventing bone headed maneuvers.  #3 and #4 reasons why that kills fun to drive.

3. Those SUVs also have further electronic nannies helping said top heavy SUVs from rolling over.  #5 reason that kills fun to drive...

4. And those SUVs are marketed to and sold to folk that are in the VERY LEAST....car enthusiasts...  #6 reason why this has killed REAL fun to drive cars to exist...

HONDA is trying very hard to COUNTER that. Not with SUPER BOWL commercials. But with actual product...

But you are all over the place...

44 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They could have made Omega platform SUVs with a Blackwing V8 that cost more than the Escalade and had potentially an even bigger profit margin.   Although they would have needed an Omega SUV priced below Escalade also to get volume and enough scale on the platform.  Lots of ways to make money, but obviously the platform is dead so it doesn't matter much now.

 

7 hours ago, smk4565 said:

But American car companies only see profits in pickups and crossovers.

 

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

But still we have Camaro, Corvette, Mustang from America, NSX from Japan (although I think it is made in USA), a super aging GT-R from Japan and a Supra made by Germans.  How do 2 continents produce 5 sports cars?  Ferrari alone probably has 5 cars.  

What is it?

Does Chevrolet build SUVs like they have for the last 100 years to make profit, or do they make super sports cars and drop everything else?

Does Honda STOP producing motorcycles because...they need to focus on outdoing Lamborghinis? 

Honda has the enthusiast covered in many ways.   Ford has the enthusiast covered in many ways.  (An off roading Bronco is JUST about to enter service)

37 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I bet a lot of people want a Mustang but don't buy it because they worry about RWD in the snowball, or need a to put car seats in it, or fit adults in the back seat, etc, so they go buy an SUV instead.

Like I said...Ford has them covered...

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

21 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And yet there are so many left on the road after 35 years.

Where, I have not seen one in decades. Searching used car and you cannot find them for sale.

From 1980 to 1990 there are ZERO SL for sale.

For 1990 to 2000 there is only 103 available auto's of the SL class and price is pretty low. Guess they DO NOT hold value long term.

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Who is talking about SUVs being fun to drive?

Acura still sells sedans and the NSX. And are righting the ship that Porsche failed to see. 

Porsche builds CUVs now too...    And all of them are NOT fun to drive....    Their sedan is a bloated, heavy, ugly thing.  Not fun to drive either.   Its sad when Porsche has to remind folk at the  Super Bowl that they build fast exciting supercars with a fake "exciting" heist advert/movie thing...  Pathetic

Acura/Honda does well enough.

 

They dont perform like a sports car. They are impressive. But they dont perform like a PURE sports car.  And to be honest, its all that electronic wizz bang technology that makes these SUVs perform which at the same time,  is EXACTLY the problem...  

 

HONDA is trying very hard to COUNTER that. Not with SUPER BOWL commercials. But with actual product...

 

Acura makes one sedan, a front driver with 200 hp base and a torqueless V6 as the option until that Type S arrives.  Is that thing a CT5 killer?

Something like 80% of Acura's sales are SUVs.  Lincoln is trending toward 100% SUV,  Cadillac and Lexus are probably pushing 75% SUV, maybe higher.  So  if that is 80% of your brand, I would hope it is a fun to drive product.  Time will tell if there German strategy works or if the Cadillac/Lincoln/Acura strategy works, over the past 20 years the German strategy is winning.  

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Where, I have not seen one in decades. Searching used car and you cannot find them for sale.

From 1980 to 1990 there are ZERO SL for sale.

For 1990 to 2000 there is only 103 available auto's of the SL class and price is pretty low. Guess they DO NOT hold value long term.

If you search SL on auto trader it only pulls from 1994 and newer because before that it was 500SL, 560SL, 380SL, etc.  The models that lead with a number aren't pulled into that search.  The 80s ones cost more than the 90s or early 2000s SL's.

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Something like 80% of Acura's sales are SUVs.  Lincoln is trending toward 100% SUV,  Cadillac and Lexus are probably pushing 75% SUV, maybe higher.  So  if that is 80% of your brand, I would hope it is a fun to drive product.  Time will tell if there German strategy works or if the Cadillac/Lincoln/Acura strategy works, over the past 20 years the German strategy is winning.

Porsche is German and it's 67% SUVs (by volume).
Are they using the German strategy, or the American?

[riviera74]

All this is happening because the market went CUV/SUV.  The RDX A-spec is necessary for Acura to do well, especially since the death of the RLX and the diminution of the TLX.

Now, will Cadillac please upgrade their interiors so that they are competitive with the Telluride/Palisade on all their XT models?