Review: 2020 Acura RDX A-Spec

[William Maley]

For the past decade, Acura has felt lost at sea. Not sure of what it wanted to be as a brand. This was shown by mixed messaging in their lineup as they weren’t sure to focus on luxury, technology, or sport. This muddled mess of identities would cause a fair amount of issues. But in the past couple of years, Acura started to get its act together thanks in part to new leadership. The first fruits of their efforts came last year in the form of the third-generation RDX. 

It has been over two years since I last drove an Acura, so when the opportunity for an RDX A-Spec landed on my desk, I took it with both hands. It was time to see what Acura has been up to and if they’re taking a step in the right direction. 

You Want Presence? You Got It!

The RDX is the first production model to feature Acura’s newest design language and its no shrinking violet. The front end draws your attention with a large trapezoidal grille paired with a massive Acura emblem. Sitting on either side is Acura’s Jewel-Eye LED headlights that add a distinctive touch. My A-Spec tester takes it further with distinctive front and rear bumpers, 20-inch alloy wheels finished in black, and a special Apex Blue Pearl color that is only available on this trim. This crossover garnered a lot of looks during the week I had, something I hadn’t experience in quite some time.

Cozy, Polarizing Interior

The RDX’s interior captures the feeling of being in a sports car with a symmetrical dashboard design that cocoons the front passengers. A rotary drive-mode selector found in the center stack echos the design found in the NSX supercar. While it does emphasize the sporty nature of the vehicle, the position of the knob does make the climate controls a bit hard to reach. A-Spec models have some special touches such as red contrast stitching, a suede panel on the passenger side of the dashboard, and new trim for the instrument cluster that help it stand out. Material and build quality are quite close to some competitors from Germany.

A set of sport seats with increased bolstering and power adjustments come standard on the A-Spec. I found them to be quite comfortable for any trip length and were able to hold me if I decided to be a bit enthusiastic. Back seat passengers will be plenty comfortable with an abundance of head and legroom. I would have like to see the back seat be able to slide forward and back to offer more comfort. Cargo space is towards the top of the class with 29.5 cubic feet with the rear seats up and 58.9 when folded. There’s also a little storage nook under the cargo floor to stash valuables.

Intuitive Infotainment?

Acura’s previous infotainment system drew a lot of ire from people. The dual-screen layout was confusing as some functions were split between the two screens such as changing the audio input. Not helping was the two different control methods for this setup; touchscreen for the bottom portion and a controller for the top screen. Thankfully, Acura has introduced a new infotainment system for the RDX. A large 10.2-inch screen sits on top of the dash and is controlled by a touchpad on the center console. Seeing the touchpad for the first time sent chills down my spine as I thought back to my frustrating experiences with Lexus’ Touchpad Controller. But Acura says this controller is much easier and logical to use than competitors. Okay, challenge accepted.

Acura’s touchpad controller is slightly different from Lexus’ setup as it is mapped to the screen. So if you want to access the navigation, you tap that part of the pad that corresponds to the screen. This removes the dragging of the finger across the touchpad to get it to the selection you want. This seems quite logical on paper, but I found to be somewhat frustrating. It took me a few days to mind-meld with the system as I was still used to dragging my finger across the touchpad to select various functions. This made simple tasks such as changing presets or moving around in Apple CarPlay very tough.

There is also a smaller touchpad that controls a small section of the screen. This allows you to scroll through three menus - audio, navigation, and clock. This would prove to be the most frustrating aspect of this system as it didn’t always recognize whenever I scroll down on the touchpad to move to another screen.

Thankfully, Acura has left a number of physical controls for the audio and climate systems. I’m glad that some luxury automakers aren’t falling into the trap.

Powertrain Goes Back To Its Roots

The RDX has always found itself with a different powertrain throughout its various generations. The first version used a turbo-four engine, while the second-generation moved to a V6. For the third-generation, Acura went back to the RDX’s roots and settled on another turbo-four engine. The 2.0L engine punches out 272 horsepower and 280 pound-feet of torque. This is paired with a 10-speed automatic and either front or my tester’s Super-Handling all-wheel drive system.

The turbo-four is quite a potent engine with little turbo lag when leaving a stop and a seemingly endless amount of power for any situation. The ten-speed automatic is very smooth and quick when upshifting. But it does stumble somewhat when you need a quick shot of speed. 

I did notice that the 2.0L turbo isn’t a quiet engine when traveling on the expressway, going above 2,000 rpm when traveling at 70 mph. This may explain the slightly disappointing 21.7 mpg average I got during the week. EPA fuel economy figures for the A-Spec SH-AWD are 21 City/26 Highway/23 Combined. The standard RDX models see a small bump in their EPA fuel economy figures.

Capable Driver

Acura is no stranger to building a crossover that is good to drive, the larger MDX crossover is a prime example. But the RDX A-Spec takes that a step further. This version gets a slightly stiffer suspension setup which negates a fair amount of body roll on a winding road. The steering firms up nicely when pushed through corners. When going through the daily grind, the RDX A-Spec will let in a few more bumps and road imperfections due to its suspension tuning. Road and wind noise are kept to very minimal levels.

Welcome Back Acura

The 2020 RDX shows that Acura is starting to figure out what it wants to be; a brand that offers something playful in the class. The RDX certainly has the qualities with a bold exterior, punchy turbo-four, and a surprising chassis that offers sporty handling and a mostly-comfortable ride. The slightly-confounding infotainment system and poor fuel economy figures do sour it a bit. But the RDX is a very compelling alternative to many compact luxury crossovers.

It does give me hope that Acura is figuring out who it wants to be and excited to see what comes down the road such as the new TLX.

How I Would Configure An RDX: For me, I would basically take the exact RDX tester seen here. That will set me back $47,195 after adding destination and $400.00 paint option. Everyone else should look at the Technology package that will get you most of the safety equipment that is part of Acurawatch, along with a 12-speaker ELS audio system, navigation, and parking sensors. It will not break the bank at $41,000 for FWD or $43,000 for AWD.

Disclaimer: Acura Provided the RDX, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas

Year: 2020
Make: Acura
Model: RDX
Trim: A-Spec
Engine: Turbocharged 2.0L DOHC 16-Valve VTEC Four-Cylinder
Driveline: 10-Speed Automatic, All-Wheel Drive
Horsepower @ RPM: 272 @ 6,500
Torque @ RPM: 280 @ 1,600 - 4,500
Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 21/26/23
Curb Weight: 4,015 lbs
Location of Manufacture: East Liberty, Ohio
Base Price: $45,800
As Tested Price: $47,195 (Includes $995.00 Destination Charge)

Options:
Premium Exterior Color - $400.00

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[G. David Felt]

Nice review read, so performance over efficiency which explains the MPG issue. Not a fan of the NSX, so I was not thrilled to see that center stack dial knob and appreciate the feedback on how it was not easy to use. I am honestly surprised that they built it this way when Japanese are such tiny people and reaching so far for a knob to make things work is hard.

Over all Acura fans will be happy, I do not see this getting conquest sales.

[ykX]

I like it a lot.  That infotainment system seems like a huge improvement on the previous dual screen system.  My wife's car has it and I hate it.  They do drive very nice, so that's a huge plus.  Also, Acurawatch safety system is not very intrusive like on some other vehicles.

[oldshurst442]

Im liking the 2021 TLX. Interior and exterior.   And with a TT 3.0 V6, I might have a canditate to replace my 2012 eventually.  Again, depending what other cars are available in 2023-2024-2025 because Im kinda  thinking about NOT spending money needlessly...  I wasnt gonna change my TL anytime soon anyway, but Covid reinforced that mindset.   I could FINALLY say that a recent new car has peaked my interest again.  And Im hoping that Acura will keep producing the 2021 TLX until  Im ready to part ways with my 2012 TL in another 3 years or so.  That will make this new gen TLX 3 years old. I dont think Acura will cancel it due to low sales... (Covid economy, CUV/SUV sales reality, etc)  Hope not.    There is nothing else out there in 2020 that I want to own.  Maybe a Cadillac CT5, but it doesnt hit the right buttons within the price range that I want to be in. A CT5 V or Blackwing is where its at with me, and THAT is too much money for me to spend on a car.  

[frogger]

Love that they have kept the climate control (and hopefully seat heat/ventilation?) controls outside of the touch screen.  Red seats would be a bit too obnoxious for me.  Given the price similarity I wonder how this compares to the Blazer.

 

 

 

 

 

[daves87rs]

Getting a bit of a ricer vibe from it , but in a good way. Has a sporty look to it- with some power to back it up. Love that blue color! Also liking the mean looking front end....

[ocnblu]

It looks good, ups the ante for Acura/Honda cultmembers, sort of a return to form for them.

[smk4565]

Problem is Acura wants to position themselves as a performance brand but there are 500+ hp competitors in this segment.  So they aren’t even close to competition on performance. 
 

Acura is giving $12,000 off the RLX right now before they kill it off.  This is another brand in contraction.

[balthazar]

There’s a while bunch of performance-oriented sedans out there with less than 500 HP. Not everyone wants or needs that level, and those that do don’t buy often.

[frogger]

Yeah 500hp and probably almost 50% more expensive except for Tesla, and projecting a 100% douchebag image driving one.

 

 

 

[riviera74]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Problem is Acura wants to position themselves as a performance brand but there are 500+ hp competitors in this segment.  So they aren’t even close to competition on performance. 
 

Acura is giving $12,000 off the RLX right now before they kill it off.  This is another brand in contraction.

Who is adding sedans in a CUV/SUV market?  No One I suspect.  The car sales are no longer there unlike 7-10 years ago.

[smk4565]

Acura isn’t adding SUV’s either, they have 2 still, most have about 5.  

[oldshurst442]

5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Problem is Acura wants to position themselves as a performance brand

They were always a performance brand since the introduction of Acura in North America.  

Not a brutish, big block 455 V8 engine in a small, compact Civic kinda way.  But with high revving, silky smooth 4 cylinder,s great manual transmissions, great handling like a golf cart kinda way partnered up with "technological" dual overhead cam shafts and variable valve timing in a Civic and Integra.  Leading the way was Acura's Ferrari fighting mid-engine gem 1st gen NSX.  

The rest of that early line-up, were not torque monster cars. Were not high horsepower behemoths. What they were, were sporty oriented, great handling, mid level luxury cruising sedans.  The compact car Integra early on and well into its 2nd and 3rd generation were sporty, zippy and peppy things.    Fun cars to drive.    A different, very Honda approach to performance...

And they lost that in the early 2000s.  

In reality, all Acura (and Honda) is doing now, is just going back to its 1980s roots.  So, not a problem...

5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

but there are 500+ hp competitors in this segment.

What Balthy said...

And this was never Acura's image to begin with.  So...not a problem. 

5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

So they aren’t even close to competition on performance. 

Acura was always a different kind of performance. Had a different approach to performance. A different angle if you will. 

Actually, BMW first did this angle of performance with their 2002 in the 1970s.  Acura's cars emulated that. But with FWD instead of RWD.   

 

[smk4565]

Acura builds 2 FWD crossovers with near segment bottom power.  And they have the TLX with currently segment bottom power and the Type S that is coming is still less powerful than CT5-v I think and the Acura is wrong wheel drive with a 57/43 weight balance.

[balthazar]

CUV sales volume isn't remotely based on maximum HP ratings.

[oldshurst442]

Concerning Honda/Acura. Being FWD on their smaller cars like the Civic or the ILX  is not really an issue.  

On their mid level CUVs and TLX, being FWD with their SH-AWD  system or PAWS really is not an issue.  The SH-AWD system or PAWS takes care of any RWD bias there is because Acura's systems are that good in that all important fun in handling  category...  Which those systems are also available in their bigger CUVs. 

Concerning Acura, their problem from the 2000s all the way to 2020 is not about wrong wheel drive. 

Their problem was a lack of focus and eye off the ball of what their cars really mean to their buyers.  And of course, really ugly front fascias and really porky vehicles that stopped being about fun driving characteristics with bulky, old looking interiors.

Acuras (and Hondas) of the 1980s and 1990s, had just about the industry's most youthful looking cars exterior wise and their interiors were simple, driver oriented with sportiness in mind.  

The handling of their cars during this heyday were spirited and fun.

And then the 2000s came along and Honda/Acura became...old man cars.    

Acura always reminded me of what Oldsmobile used to be in the 1950s/1960s/1970s and certain 1980s models.  About mid-level 'sporty' luxury.  Acura, I felt, replaced Oldsmobile in the market place in the 1990s. 

And then, I felt, Acura BECAME Oldsmobile in EVERY sense of the way. In that Acura became a shadow of its former self, became  stale and 'old' in the 2000s EXACTLY how Oldsmobile became that in the 1980s and 1990s. 

Front wheel drive IS Acura's image.

NOW...its SH-AWD and  PAWS.

Acura successfully marketed this SH-AWD thing.

Acura is just now, redefining and re-engineering their cars and CUVs to fit EXACTLY that image and infusing that DNA SUCCESSFULLY into their cars and CUVs.    Acura cars and CUVs are JUST NOW, getting back that fun to drive quotient they once had in the 1980s and 1990s.

Is it too late?   Only time will tell.  Time ran out on Oldsmobile as in the mid-to late 1990s, Oldsmobile got back on track. But it was too little too late for Oldsmobile.  Will it be the same for Acura?

But one thing is for sure....Acura does NOT need RWD, does NOT need 500 HP.  If Acura does THAT, then they will surely be doomed.   Acura is ALL ABOUT the fun-to-drive quotient.   

I mentioned Oldsmobile and how Acura to me replaced Oldsmobile in the marketplace.   

I should also include BMW.  Acura closely resembles BMW.   Acura is Japan's BMW.  A FWD (and now SH-AWD)  version of BMW (of the 1970s -1990s)   

BMW has became just another CUV company with ALL their vehicles becoming fat and bloated AWD things.  Lots of HP, but disconnected to the road because of all that heft and drive by wire bullshyte they have incorporated in their driving characteristcs.

 Acura has tried to get their cars to be more connected to the driver as of late and made their cars more responsive and more fun for the driver...

One does NOT need 500 HP to be fun to drive.  I think Acura has finally found the right mixture for fun to drive cars with just the RIGHT AMOUNT of HP and weight and SH-AWD or PAWS.   

The BMW M5 has OVER 500 HP.   Closer to 600 HP with 500 some odd ft/lbs of torque.  This M5 is the FIRST M5 to NOT BE RWD.  Its AWD.  I havent heard ANYBODY say that the M5 is fun to drive...   And BMWs were at one time...fun to drive...

Ill repeat.  Acuras need not be 500plus HP.    Acuras just need to be fun to drive...  And they are fast becoming so... 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by oldshurst442

[frogger]

They are doing enough to survive, but competition is far greater these days compared to their heyday of the 90s and early 2k.  Tesla has eaten up a lot of that market of entry lux vehicles with the 3 and Y, Porsche is no longer just a sports car company, Koreans are moving upmarket and investing a lot of coin attempting to do so.

 

[oldshurst442]

^^^ True.

 

[riviera74]

It is rather interesting that while Nissan/Infiniti are circling the drain, Acura is struggling because of what the Koreans are doing. 

Oldsmobile reached its sales peak in 1986 when half of the models sold were the rear-drive G-body Cutlass Supreme models.  Once that was replaced by the W-body in 1988, Olds was losing lot of sales (at least until the first Aurora).  By the time the Intrigue and the Alero showed up, Olds was on its way out for good.  If Acura was meant to replace Olds, it has wildly succeeded.  BMW of course is a tougher nut to crack.  Pontiac has been replaced by Nissan and Honda/Acura will probably replace Nissan sooner than any of us think.

[oldshurst442]

Ill go a step further.

What @frogger said about the Koreans...

Hyundai is wonderfully replacing Chevrolet cars.  The Elantra is doing in the marketplace what the Cavalier/Cobalt and Cruze did in the market and what Chevrolet failed to do as where Hyundai is succeeding.  To SUSTAIN people interested in the car.  Hyundai is also succeeding where Chevrolet failed big time with Cavalier/Cobalt/Cruze is that Hyundai seems to have a POSITIVE public image on the Elantra as where Chevrolet always had negativity surrounding its image with the Cavalier/Cobalt/Cruze trio.  

The Sonata seems to be Hyundai's equivalent to what an Impala was to Chevrolet. An upscale, classy Chevrolet with some styling pizzazz.  This new generation Sonata has gone back to the droopy faced Sonata's image.  Call that Sonata ugly if you will, that Sonata made a splash in the marketplace and lost that momentum when they revised and retracted the aggressive styling on the next gen.  This new gen, which actually looks like Chevy's last gen Malibu, seems to get back that mojo. 

KIA will replace Nissan.  I see KIA as a modern form of Datsun. If KIA doesnt get visions of grandeur.  The managers of KIA should let Hyundai and Genesis handle the higher end stuff. KIA will do wonders if they handle the lower end stuff.     

Honda will just continue to be Honda.   

Genesis is replacing Infiniti quite easily.   Acura better be careful and not let Genesis steal their food off their table.  Its up to Acura at this juncture to not let that happen.  GM dropped the ball on Pontiac, Oldsmobile.  Spent tooo much money on Saturn, but had a good starting point, but flubbed it.  Spent unnecessary money buying and trying to save SAAB. THAT money could have been spent on the road to success on Oldsmobile and perhaps, Oldsmobile would have STILL been here TODAY had GM not wasted their time on money on SAAB...

BMW will not be replaced by anybody.  What I meant to say above was that Acura is  kinda Japan's BMW.  But with FWD (SH-AWD) instead of RWD.

BMW is just killing itself.  BMW has just become just another CUV manufacturer with a few expensive, bloated sedans and coupes in the line-up.   IF EVs ever become a thing and replace ICE (which I think WILL happen), TESLA will eventually replace BMW. Especially now that autonomous driving pods may have been put to rest for good BECAUSE of Covid19. 

Acura could EASILY make fun to drive EVs and remain faithful to their fun to drive image as Acura in the future if EVs become the norm, like I have already stated, because it seems as Acura is in line of righting their ship.   I think BMW has gone tooo far off course that it seems almost impossible to get back to their roots.   Tooooo many folk just dont know about fun, handling BMWs anymore.  BMW has built toooo many bloated sedans and CUVs    SAVs  (yeah right)  for people to give a shyte about driving dynamics and about BMWs anymore.  When the next "in" car company comes along with a new generation of drivers in the next decade, I think BMW is done for.  Tesla could be that company.  But one thing is for sure, BMW is on the way out. I see the signs. In hindsight, the signs are the same ones as how Cadillac was going down in the 1980s and 1990s... 

 

 

[frogger]

I don't see where Oldsmobile fits and would have enough sales to be around still.  Do we really need more 1.5t, 2.0t and 3.6L CUV's from GM? 

 

 

[Robert Hall]

42 minutes ago, frogger said:

I don't see where Oldsmobile fits and would have enough sales to be around still.  Do we really need more 1.5t, 2.0t and 3.6L CUV's from GM? 

 

Buick and GMC seem to cover the filler niche between Chevy and Cadillac pretty well..

[oldshurst442]

To be fair, Oldsmobile had a hand with GM's initial DOHC 4 and 6 cylinder engines. Lotus did Chevrolet's first DOHC V8 in the Corvette, but Oldsmobile did their own DOHC and Cadillac used it.  More precisely, Cadillac "hired" Oldsmobile to do their DOHC V8 and Oldsmobile did  a version of that to use as well. 

If a different timeline had occurred and Oldsmobile had survived, I think Oldsmobile would be on the cutting edge of automotive trends right about now so I dont think Oldsmobile would have been doing  1.5t, 2.0. and 3.6 liter V6 CUVs.   I think Oldsmobile would be doing EV CUVs right about now, trying to compete with Tesla.  And for the last 3-4 years.  I think Oldsmobile would have used the Bolt platform to do their own CUV with it.  Oldsmobile would have probably used the Volt, to do their own version and Opel, would have badge engineered the Olds version rather than Chevy's.  

I get this vibe as Oldsmobile was doing turbos first in the 1960s, before Chevy with its Corvair. Oldsmobile saw DOHC from the Japanese in the 1980s and did their very own in the mid-80s with the Quad 4, and then Shortstar V6 waaaay before any other GM division.   Oldsmobile did GM's first lux oriented SUV in the late 1980s with Bravada with the old S-10 based Blazer.  LATE 1980s...Waaaaay ahead of the SUV craze. Luxury or otherwise.  Waaaay before any BMW SAVs or Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer editions. Waaaay before OJ Simpson Bronco super slow speed chases....   Waaaaay before Jurassic Park Wrangler or Mercedes Benz MLs...   Waaaaay before Navigators and Escalades and RAV4s and Lexus RXs...

And I think this trend of Oldsmobile being ahead of trends were gonna continue. 

But...we will NEVER know...

Things happen the way they do because it is the way its suppose to be...

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

BMW worldwide outsold Acura, Lexus, Infiniti and Genesis combined last year, so I think they are doing just fine.

 

Acura might be able to pick up Infiniti’s leftovers if they fizzle from the market.  But you can get the same performance Acura has from a Sonata, Edge, RAV4 or whatever other garden variety car is out there.

[oldshurst442]

20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

BMW worldwide outsold Acura, Lexus, Infiniti and Genesis combined last year, so I think they are doing just fine.

 

Nah. They are not.

Like I said. They are just like anybody else doing shytty CUVs.

Like I said, when another "in" car company comes in to charm the masses, BMW is done for.  

BMW does NOT do CUVs better than anybody else.  They do NOT do memorable CUVs. There are no 2002 CUV equivalents. No M badged 3 or 5 Series cars or CUVs that charm today. No CUV E36 or E 46 equivalent.  No Z3 or  Z8 or 7 Series saloon James Bond CUV equivalent movie star...

They just do the same ol same ole. Like everybody else.  They are riding on the coattails of those past vehicles. But they are NOT charming any new drivers.  New drivers are buying them BECAUSE of their past.  But when another  enthusiast car maker takes the market by storm, BMW is done for.  

In other words. The X5 and X6 have lost that loving feeling they once had.  The X7 is a disgusting design. Neither CUV just mentioned is gonna  carry the BMW flame to the next generation of BMW lovers...  The X3 and X1 are just...well, they are just the same ole same ole I was talking about. No better than a KIA RIO or Ford Escape...

THIS is what happened to Cadillac.  Cadillac too, was outselling Mercedes and BMW in the very 1990s that BMW enthusiasts all go  googoo gaagaa with E30 M3s,  E36 M3s, E46 M3s,  E34 M5 inline 6 AND V8, E39 M5s.  Cult classic Z8s and Z3s... And Cadillac...was outselling them.  But by the late 1990s. A different story all together. Same with BMW now.   Tesla has taken a fair share of market share from BMW and EV sales are still very very niche. Even Tesla sales are niche.  They are growing fast, and at the expense of many auto manufacturers. Not just BMW.  But Tesla has got that same type of following that BMW enjoyed in the 1970s/1980s and 1990s. Its taken Tesla just a decade to achieve what BMW achieved  in 30. 

Irony. 

What Cadillac did to their image in that same 30 year span that BMW took advantage of, BMW flubbed itself in just less than 20.  

Edited June 15, 2020 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

9 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Nah. They are not.

Like I said. They are just like anybody else doing shytty CUVs.

Like I said, when another "in" car company comes in to charm the masses, BMW is done for.  

BMW does NOT do CUVs better than anybody else.  They do NOT do memorable CUVs. There are no 2002 CUV equivalents. No M badged 3 or 5 Series cars or CUVs that charm today. No CUV E36 or E 46 equivalent.  No Z3 or  Z8 or 7 Series saloon James Bond CUV equivalent movie star...

They just do the same ol same ole. Like everybody else.  They are riding on the coattails of those past vehicles. But they are NOT charming any new drivers.  New drivers are buying them BECAUSE of their past.  But when another  enthusiast car maker takes the market by storm, BMW is done for.  

In other words. The X5 and X6 have lost that loving feeling they once had.  The X7 is a disgusting design. Neither CUV just mentioned is gonna  carry the BMW flame to the next generation of BMW lovers...  The X3 and X1 are just...well, they are just the same ole same ole I was talking about. No better than a KIA RIO or Ford Escape...

THIS is what happened to Cadillac.  Cadillac too, was outselling Mercedes and BMW in the very 1990s that BMW enthusiasts all go  googoo gaagaa with E30 M3s,  E36 M3s, E46 M3s,  E34 M5 inline 6 AND V8, E39 M5s.  Cult classic Z8s and Z3s... And Cadillac...was outselling them.  But by the late 1990s. A different story all together. Same with BMW now.   Tesla has taken a fair share of market share from BMW and EV sales are still very very niche. Even Tesla sales are niche.  They are growing fast, and at the expense of many auto manufacturers. Not just BMW.  But Tesla has got that same type of following that BMW enjoyed in the 1970s/1980s and 1990s. Its taken Tesla just a decade to achieve what BMW achieved  in 30. 

Irony. 

What Cadillac did to their image in that same 30 year span that BMW took advantage of, BMW flubbed itself in just less than 20.  

SUVs sell, every one makes them.  You are out of business without SUVs, and Acura only has 2, they need more.  
 

BMW is #2 luxury car in the world, their cars weigh less and handle better than Tesla’s.  And BMW has plenty of fast cars still.  Just a 550i is faster than any Cadillac ever made, not even talking M models.  The 7-series has a 205 mph top speed, faster than a C8.  How much more performance do they need?

[oldshurst442]

25 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

BMW is #2 luxury car in the world,

No they are not...

Like Mercedes Benz.

In Europe, BMW sells econoboxes to the European masses...  More so even than Mercedes Benz. 

We always go down that same route...

You confuse OVERALL sales with the actual luxury cars BMW produces...   

 

25 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

their cars weigh less

barely...

25 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

handle better than Tesla’s.

definitely not...  

You like Sandy Munro?

Well Sandy likes BMWs. He also likes the Tesla Model 3. And HE says that the Model 3's handling is reminiscent of how BMW 3 Series used to drive and handle...

I could find you the link. Its easy.  He says it MULTIPLE times. ESPECIALLY when he was on  Autoline Detroit After Hours.  And I KNOW you have listened to those...so I DONT NEED to post anything...  

25 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And BMW has plenty of fast cars still.  Just a 550i is faster than any Cadillac ever made,

Fast is NOT what sells enthusiast cars...

25 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 How much more performance do they need?

They dont. 

But YOU keep on missing the point.

It AINT about horsepower and speed and performance.

Its about FUN TO DRIVE...

And ALL THAT WHAT IT ENTAILS...

And BMW lost THAT characteristic a loooong time ago...and much like yourself that doesnt know what that is...BMW has forgotten and does not know what that means.

Drive by wire, disconnecting the driver from the road through hefty AWD systems to put down the enormous amounts of torque and HP the cars make to the idiotic gesture control technology in their interiors...

 

all have contributed to BMW's vehicles straying far far awaaaay  in what used to make a BMW a BMW and what was quite unique the automotive world. A fun car to drive. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by oldshurst442

[frogger]

The days of BMW doing simple RWD sport sedans with a bit of luxury are over because everyone wants faster numbers.. more HP, lower 0-60, more ultimate grip.  Everything is digital now for all mfgs, it is a lot easier to drive fast without skill with cars basically doing the work for you and removing risk with torque vectoring AWD systems and nannies, but the connection to the road for the driver is gone, whether sedans, CUVs or even sports cars.   BMW is doing very well regardless, their sales went up in 2019 and USA is not their core market, it is less than 20% of their sales.  Just because they don't build what they used to and you romanticize but bought something that wasn't anything like them doesn't really matter, the market has spoken.

 

Oh and  an Acura fan poking fun at BMW Infotainment is priceless..

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by frogger

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

I get this vibe as Oldsmobile was doing turbos first in the 1960s, before Chevy with its Corvair.

To set the record straight: the same year- 1962.

[oldshurst442]

^^^  I stand corrected.  

[balthazar]

45 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Just a 550i is faster than any Cadillac ever made, not even talking M models.

"Fast" refers to top speed. Nearly every BMW sold here is limited to 155MPH. The '20 M550i is limited to only 130 MPH. Multiple Cadillacs have exceeded 180 MPH. Multiple Cadillacs have gone 200.
You certainly didn't mean "fast".

If you meant 'quick' --which refers to acceleration-- a 2019 550i claimed 3.9 sec to 60, slower than a number of Cadillacs. The '20 M550i claims 3.6 to 60 (still; Automobile called it "unexciting"), the '19 CTS-V was tested at 3.7, a virtual tie. Of course- this is only bragging rights (if anyone cared to stick around and listen to a BMW owner talk... about anything). No one anywhere is drag racing a 5-series.

[smk4565]

22 minutes ago, balthazar said:

"Fast" refers to top speed. Nearly every BMW sold here is limited to 155MPH. The '20 M550i is limited to only 130 MPH. Multiple Cadillacs have exceeded 180 MPH. Multiple Cadillacs have gone 200.
You certainly didn't mean "fast".

If you meant 'quick' --which refers to acceleration-- a 2019 550i claimed 3.9 sec to 60, slower than a number of Cadillacs. The '20 M550i claims 3.6 to 60 (still; Automobile called it "unexciting"), the '19 CTS-V was tested at 3.7, a virtual tie. Of course- this is only bragging rights (if anyone cared to stick around and listen to a BMW owner talk... about anything). No one anywhere is drag racing a 5-series.

Ok quick, I have seen tests of the M550i at 3.6 seconds as you stated and the M5 at 2.9.   The M760 and M8 are in the 3’s so are the Alpinas.  Even the Supra and Z4 have sub 4 second 0-60 and plenty of handling prowess. 

I am not a BMW fan and never was, but to criticize their performance compared to any luxury brand from Asia or America is ridiculous.  Aside from the NSX the most powerful Acura is like 315 hp and it is on a Honda minivan platform so I don’t want to hear about “driver engagement” on anything Acura makes outside of the NSX which sells like 200 a year.

[smk4565]

I watched TFL Car track test an Infiniti QX50 which has similar performance numbers to the RDX against a Mercedes GLC43 and it wasn’t event remotely close and we aren’t even talking GLC63.  
 

Suggesting any Acura outside of NSX is on par with a BMW or Mercedes is like saying a Honda Accord has performance and fun factor to rival a Camaro or Mustang.

And even the NSX is 1 second slower around the Nurburgring than the BMW M5. NSX is over 30 seconds a lap behind the AMG GT Pro.  Acura doesn’t know performance.
 

[oldshurst442]

BMW in reality was always an econobox...  Nothing more. Nothing less...  More PLEBEIAN than Mercedes...

That aside. I can concede that reality and admit that their cars were engaging to drive.

However, when I hear stuff like this:

1 hour ago, frogger said:

Everything is digital now for all mfgs, it is a lot easier to drive fast without skill with cars basically doing the work for you and removing risk with torque vectoring AWD systems and nannies, but the connection to the road for the driver is gone, whether sedans, CUVs or even sports cars

Im the one that laughs.

Excuses is all I hear trying to defend a dying company.  Oh...BMW is dying. Like you and @smk4565 is saying...

CUVs are what is selling.  Aint it sad that BMW...JUST to stay alive is JUST selling CUVs?

The famous and lauded BMW? Peddling CUVs?  And you defend that?  Puhlease...

1 hour ago, frogger said:

Oh and  an Acura fan poking fun at BMW Infotainment is priceless..

Something you might not know...

I HATE HONDA AND ACURA!!!   

Always did. 

Bought a 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD because there was nothing then that I cared to own in the 50 000 dollar Canadian price range. Just like now in 2020. Nothing in 2020 in  that same price range that I care to own.

I settled for the TL.  SETTLED being the key word here.  OH...I like my car. I LOVE my car.  Why?

Well...it aint for the looks that is for sure. Its one ugly POS.   But it looks like nothing else on the road. And all that triangular and angular lines it has, it reminds me of an F117 Stealth Fighter. That too, is one ugly mother. But its THAT very reason why I LOVE my TL.  Contradictory? YES!!!   But the TL has contradictory styling designs...  But usually, Im not the one to like ugly cars just because they are ugly.  Its just happens that the TL is an exception. 

It aint for the driving characteristics either that I love my TL. Its got front heavy plowing like a heavy FWD car when it turns corners on dry pavement. But driving fast enough, the SH-AWD system saves my ass and makes the turn for me. But that is not why I love my TL.  I hate the front heavy FWD bias its got during normal driving.

In the snow, SH-AWD IS fun.  So...chalk up a reason why I love my TL. But I hate winter.  So...that too is contradictory statement...

But really, Its mostly the naturally aspirated 300 horses and 280 something ft/lbs of torque that the SH-AWD system controls so well that puts a smile to my face while accelerating forward that I love. 

But...I NEVER liked Honda. Acura even less in the 1980s and 1990s and well into the 2000s.  HATE HATE HATE VTEC. Not the tech.  but the whole VTEC just kicked in yo with the baseball cap on sideways and the whole Civic SI thing.

I just recently maybe a short decade ago, or less, that I started respecting what an Integra GSR/Type R is all about.  HATED those cars with a PHOQUING passion before then. 

I HATE the TLX. HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT

The 2021 TLX looks promising.

Now...after what I said, does that look like Im a Honda fanbois.  

PS:  I HATE BMW WORSE than I HATE ON HONDA...

Edited June 15, 2020 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

If you read what I said about Acura....I NEVER compared BMW to Acura...

I just said that Acura emulates BMW the way BMW  was fun to drive with RWD in the 1970s and 1980s, Acura being a Japanese equivalent with FWD.  FUN TO DRIVE.  

I NEVER once mentioned Acura's performance.  The NSX was the image of Honda's VERSION of performance is what I said...and fun to drive was THAT performance metric...

 

 

[oldshurst442]

You know...

What makes this weird.  Is that over the years in automotive forums. Ive been called a Ford fanbois, Ive been called a  Ive been called a Honda fanbois.  Ive been called Ferrari fanbois. 

Firstly. Im NOT a fanbois of anything. Well...maybe muscle cars. I could be called a muscle car fanbois, but I was never ever called one.

Secondly. I have NEVER EVER been called a Pontiac or Oldsmobile Fanbois.  (JUST LOOK AT MY NAME AND AVATAR for Christ's sake...)   

Im not exactly a Ferrari fanbois, but I do like Ferraris more than any other exotic. I prefer Vettes over Ferraris, but that type of car is really not my cup of tea. MUSCLE CARS ARE!!! 

MUSCLE CARS!!!

In the 12 or so years that Ive been posting in automotive forums., in the way I wax poetic about 442s, Trans Ams, and muscle cars in general, it would seem only normal for me to be labeled a Pontiac or Oldsmobile or muscle car fanbois.  But no!

Ive defended Ford in the past and now Honda vehemently, but I guess that confuses people....

I have confessed my hatred for BMW many times, Honda a tad less, but because I have advertised that I own an Acura, that makes me a fanbois...  

But me waxing poetic about crappy handling muscle cars, having extinct American brand Pontiac Trans Am chickens and equally extinct american brand Oldsmobile as my automotive forum name for 12 years does not make me a fanbois...

Im kinda sad actually. Maybe I got to be more vocal and in your face about Pontiac and Oldsmobile so I could get the right brand fanbois recognition then!

 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

What BMW was 40 years ago doesn’t have an effect on what they are now.  If the 2002 was around now no one would buy it.  Look at Mini, small cars don’t sell.
 

Everyone survives off SUVs, it is the #1 selling body style.  Not having 5 SUVs in your lineup is just foolish, whether you are a luxury line or not.  Look at Ford/Lincoln and that are killing all cars but Mustang.  BMW didn’t kill the 3-5-7-series they are still there as they always were, people just pick the SUV instead.

Edited June 15, 2020 by smk4565

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

What BMW was 40 years ago doesn’t have an effect on what they are now.  If the 2002 was around now no one would buy it.  

Funny...

You keep on shytting on Cadillac from 40 years ago and look at today's Cadillacs through that lense.

But here about BMW, you seem to defend BMW on shytting on its heritage and that BMW is NOT what it was 40 years ago...

The thing is...40 years ago is what made BMW sell the amounts it sells today, but NOTHING it sells today resembles what BMW are.  

And you say that as it was a positive for BMW but a negative for Cadillac?

The thing is...Cadillac does NOT make shyt cars anymore...there are NO Cateras or V8-6-4s around. 

WTF???!!!

The thing is, Cadillac is actually building brand recognition. Ever so slowly.  BMW is actually killing its brand image and you and @frogger seem to be ignoring that...

Acura did the same thing Cadillac did and what BMW keeps on doing....

Acura killed its brand image. Its restoring it.  BMW is not...  Listen. It was fun discussing Acura, BMW and Cadillac. But Ive gotten bored by it.  Its deja vu for me this conversation.  Ive had it about Cadillac since the 1990s, and back then I was defending blindly Cadillac in the same blind way you and @frogger are doing with BMW now.

Im moving on to other things...

Acuras still bore me to death. Especially CUVs from Acura.  CUVs in general.  

I guess you and @frogger could knock your socks off with BMW's super awesome X1s, X3s, X5s, X6s and now the X7...because sales talks and CUVs are soooooo much fun to talk about in so called enthusiast car forums...

[G. David Felt]

I drove by my Acura dealership today on my way to my son's house for dinner with the wife. The one thing we do still during this pandemic is dinner with our kids.

The Acura dealership had a few cars in the used lot and there were a few new Acura's at the back of the lot, everything was RDX or MDX. Still there and still surviving on selling just 2 models of a CUV that leaves lots to be considered, but clearly surviving.

Interesting that they do not have a bigger stable as the luxury division of Honda, you would think they would have one of every CUV Honda makes as a luxury model. ?

[balthazar]

Ferrari has 0 SUVs, Lambo has 1, bentley has 1 Rolls has 1, maserati has 1, Tesla JUST added #2... how are these luxury brands surviving without 5??
Maybe acura isn't planning on carpet-bombing every vehicle segment and continually pushing for sales above all else. I mean, it's possible, you know.

[balthazar]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

BMW worldwide outsold Acura, Lexus, Infiniti and Genesis combined last year, so I think they are doing just fine.

BMW sold 2.5 million last year. Honda/Acura sold 5.3 million.

[smk4565]

10 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Funny...

You keep on shytting on Cadillac from 40 years ago and look at today's Cadillacs through that lense.

But here about BMW, you seem to defend BMW on shytting on its heritage and that BMW is NOT what it was 40 years ago...

The thing is...40 years ago is what made BMW sell the amounts it sells today, but NOTHING it sells today resembles what BMW are.  

And you say that as it was a positive for BMW but a negative for Cadillac?

The thing is...Cadillac does NOT make shyt cars anymore...there are NO Cateras or V8-6-4s around. 

WTF???!!!

The thing is, Cadillac is actually building brand recognition. Ever so slowly.  BMW is actually killing its brand image and you and @frogger seem to be ignoring that...

Acura did the same thing Cadillac did and what BMW keeps on doing....

Acura killed its brand image. Its restoring it.  BMW is not...  Listen. It was fun discussing Acura, BMW and Cadillac. But Ive gotten bored by it.  Its deja vu for me this conversation.  Ive had it about Cadillac since the 1990s, and back then I was defending blindly Cadillac in the same blind way you and @frogger are doing with BMW now.

Im moving on to other things...

Acuras still bore me to death. Especially CUVs from Acura.  CUVs in general.  

I guess you and @frogger could knock your socks off with BMW's super awesome X1s, X3s, X5s, X6s and now the X7...because sales talks and CUVs are soooooo much fun to talk about in so called enthusiast car forums...

Cadillac still builds plenty of bad cars now.  The XT5 is lackluster, the XT4 with a range topping 237 hp, the XT6 which is a warmed over Acadia that can’t even match up with a Kia Telluride and those are Cadillac’s top 3 sellers.

At least BMW puts neat 500 hp in the X3 and 600 in X5 and X6.  There is at least performance in their crossovers.  BMW makes a Z4 sports car, Cadillac has none.  
 

Problem with  being an enthusiast is that is a small percentage of buyers.  And even a lot of enthusiasts want SUVs, look at Lamborghini, the SUV is over 50% of their sales.  
 

Sadly at the rate we are going there won’t be many sedans left.

[smk4565]

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

Ferrari has 0 SUVs, Lambo has 1, bentley has 1 Rolls has 1, maserati has 1, Tesla JUST added #2... how are these luxury brands surviving without 5??
Maybe acura isn't planning on carpet-bombing every vehicle segment and continually pushing for sales above all else. I mean, it's possible, you know.

Ferrari has an SUV coming and Bentley wants a 2nd since they killed the Mulsanne off.

Those guys are also real small volume players that only exist due to being part of a parent company with the exception of Ferrari who makes as much money off merchandise as they do cars.

[balthazar]

It's too late for ferrari & bentley- they're going to be discontinued because they don't have 5 SUVs. It's impossible for them to survive 1 more day.

"small volume players that are part of a parent company"
You mean like Acura???
 

Edited June 15, 2020 by balthazar

[riviera74]

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac still builds plenty of bad cars now.  The XT5 is lackluster, the XT4 with a range topping 237 hp, the XT6 which is a warmed over Acadia that can’t even match up with a Kia Telluride and those are Cadillac’s top 3 sellers.

At least BMW puts neat 500 hp in the X3 and 600 in X5 and X6.  There is at least performance in their crossovers.  BMW makes a Z4 sports car, Cadillac has none.  
 

Problem with  being an enthusiast is that is a small percentage of buyers.  And even a lot of enthusiasts want SUVs, look at Lamborghini, the SUV is over 50% of their sales.  
 

Sadly at the rate we are going there won’t be many sedans left.

BAD cars?  Please.  A 1982 Cimarron was actually bad.  A 1998 Catera was mediocre at best.  Today's models are good, but not great.

If you wish to complain about interiors compared to a Telluride/Palisade, that is fair.  A mid-cycle enhancement will solve that (hopefully very soon).  The XT models and the new Escalade are what Cadillac is right now, from a sales standpoint.

As for Acura, they have little to worry about. . . . . except for the fact that Hyundai/KIA is bent on total world conquest of all markets worldwide.

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

A 1982 Cimarron was actually bad.  A 1998 Catera was mediocre at best.

I have the Car & Driver review of the '82 Cimarron vs. the 3-series and (IIRC) a Volvo, and it was well received, esp vs the craptastic BMW. I know it's not the popular narrative, and we're all about conforming to the popular narrative / meme nowadays, but the ink on that one hasn't fade yet.

[frogger]

12 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I have the Car & Driver review of the '82 Cimarron vs. the 3-series and (IIRC) a Volvo, and it was well received, esp vs the craptastic BMW. I know it's not the popular narrative, and we're all about conforming to the popular narrative / meme nowadays, but the ink on that one hasn't fade yet.

Let's see it!  Take a picture or use a scanning app...  C&D doesn't seem to look back on it too fondly.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15378902/black-sheep-embarrassing-offspring-from-otherwise-upstanding-automotive-families/?slide=12

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, balthazar said:

It's too late for ferrari & bentley- they're going to be discontinued because they don't have 5 SUVs. It's impossible for them to survive 1 more day.

"small volume players that are part of a parent company"
You mean like Acura???
 

When the “entry level” Acura is $200,000 then Acura ca be judged like Bentley or Ferrari.

3 hours ago, riviera74 said:

BAD cars?  Please.  A 1982 Cimarron was actually bad.  A 1998 Catera was mediocre at best.  Today's models are good, but not great.

If you wish to complain about interiors compared to a Telluride/Palisade, that is fair.  A mid-cycle enhancement will solve that (hopefully very soon).  The XT models and the new Escalade are what Cadillac is right now, from a sales standpoint.

As for Acura, they have little to worry about. . . . . except for the fact that Hyundai/KIA is bent on total world conquest of all markets worldwide.

Bad compared to what is in market today.  CT4 is probably no more competitive today than the Catera was in 1998.  
 

The XT6 went on sale after the Telluride, that MCE is a long way off.  Aviator was out for a year before XT6.  XT6 is among the newest in segment and is probably worst in segment now, what will it be in 4-5 years?

[riviera74]

2 hours ago, frogger said:

Let's see it!  Take a picture or use a scanning app...  C&D doesn't seem to look back on it too fondly.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15378902/black-sheep-embarrassing-offspring-from-otherwise-upstanding-automotive-families/?slide=12

Moral of that story: you do NOT get a second chance to make a first impression.  That is Hyundai/KIA's strength right now: new product that impresses right off the bat.  Cadillac needs to learn this (and continuous improvement) NOW.

[oldshurst442]

3 hours ago, frogger said:

Let's see it!  Take a picture or use a scanning app...  C&D doesn't seem to look back on it too fondly.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15378902/black-sheep-embarrassing-offspring-from-otherwise-upstanding-automotive-families/?slide=12

I googled and I found something.

I didnt read the link myself. But I do know that the link article is includes the original Motor Trend 1992 Cimarron test, the Car and Driver 1982 Cimarron comparison test with the Audi and Bimmer. And I think this is the article that @balthazar  is talking about. 

And the Road and Track comparison test of the 1982 Cimarron with the Audi and Bimmer.

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/uncategorized/vintage-reviews-cadillac-cimarron/

I wont be reading it anytime soon, therefore I wouldnt know anytime soon if the Car and Driver article originally liked the Cimarron.

But, here it is for you to found out though.

In my honest opinion of the Cimarron after reading countless articles for and against it. Arguing on car forums, mostly against it, and actually remembering it from back in  the day and comparing it with the countless of Cavaliers Ive driven and was being driven in. That also Includes the J2000/Sunbird and Oldsmobile Firenza.  And yes, all those J cars that I have experience in range from years 1985-1992. From a 2.0 liter Turbo (Sunbird), to 2.8 liter V6s and even a 3.1 literV6. Cant forget the N/A 2.0 4 cylinder. Ive driven that as well.  Oh...I almost forgot. I drove a 2.2 liter Cavalier as well.  

On the Cimarron and on the J Car in general.

It wasnt THAT bad of a car.  It was actually an OK car.  In 2.8 or 3.1 V6 guise, it was pretty peppy AND reliable. 

Problem was with the Cimarron, yuppies did not want ANYTHING with a Cadillac badge on it. Anything American really.  

As I also had quite the experiences with a BMW 3 Series of that time, other than lightweight RWD handling characteristics of a Bimmer 3 Series,  the Cimarron was actually quite comparable with that ECONOBOX 3 Series.  Interiors of both were quite the same...  

Which arises another problem for Cadillac. The Cimarron did NOT have Cadillac "Standard of the World" interior.  And THAT its where iot failed. NOT because it was a J car clone, well that too. It was a BADGE ENGINEERED car.  But had it been an exclusive car ONLY to Cadillac with a Cadillac worthy interior, we would be singing a different tune about it today.

The J cars were not bad cars, truth be told. They were just too many of them. Badge engineering at its worst.

What gets me with BMW, and it shows in this thread with some, and especially with my dumb ass Greek friends of the day,  the same shyte over and over and over again that drives me mad, its the the blind defending of BMW.  BMW gets a PASS for being shytty.  In reality,   Its a crappy RWD econobox.  

You know what was reallly a better RWD econobox car during that time?   But NOBODY seems to talk about it. No so called car enthusiast EVER bring is it up. Just the same ole same ole rhetoric.  BMW 3 Serries blah blah blah. Cimarron sucks.  

I present to you the RWD 1st generation Mazda 626. 

 

And now I just realized why an inline 6 Mazda 6 for 2021 or 2022 makes even more sense...  

But yeah...Im a Honda fanbois...