June 2020 Car Spotting Thread

[Robert Hall]

29 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

It was.  And it was odd.  Obviously, it required bucket seats.  I think they did that for 2+ years and I heard it wasn't an ideal combination.  Given that they still used the THM 350 trans at first before the maligned THM 200 replaced it, it was better to go automatic.

 

Found this - '76, basic Supreme, buckets, 5 sp. manual, crank windows, and no A/C

 

Odd that Olds would do stripped down models like that, trying to complete w/ the Chevy dealer across the street I guess...they even had a base model w/ a  6 (Chevy straight 6 through '76, Buick V6 for '77) and 3pd manual (column shift?)

Edited June 20, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

Olds would compete against Chevy... and Dodge, and Plymouth, and Buick, and Ford, and Mercury, and AMC, etc.
 

[riviera74]

Too bad GM gave up on making V6 engines as competitive as the V8 engines from an earlier era.  The 3800/3900 aside, GM V6 engines were kinda mediocre.  The DOHC 3.6 is not what a GM engine should be.  A pushrod v6 derived from the Vortec V8 engines would probably be much better just about everywhere.  Only problem: the sixes have been replaced by turbo fours.  SAD.

[trinacriabob]

On 6/20/2020 at 3:31 PM, riviera74 said:

Too bad GM gave up on making V6 engines as competitive as the V8 engines from an earlier era.  The 3800/3900 aside, GM V6 engines were kinda mediocre.  The DOHC 3.6 is not what a GM engine should be.  A pushrod v6 derived from the Vortec V8 engines would probably be much better just about everywhere.  Only problem: the sixes have been replaced by turbo fours.  SAD.

To decent enough GM V6 engines, add the 3500 (with or without VVT) that has gone the long haul, lasting for some 14 + years mostly beginning in serious volume in Chevy Impys and MCs.  Some other cars, such as the Saturn Aura, also had this engine as an option.

Also, we can't forget the pushrod early cast iron block, cast iron head 4.3 Vortec V6 produced by Chevrolet and derived from their 350 V8.  Supposedly, this engine was also in the bulletproof category.

- - - - -

Just saw two IDENTICAL current-gen GMC Terrains in the bank parking lot parked next to each other.  Both were metallic charcoal gray.  I looked a little closer and saw that one was badged AWD but the other was not.  Love that tiny rear quarter window ... as in "not."

[trinacriabob]

On 6/20/2020 at 12:59 PM, Robert Hall said:

Odd that Olds would do stripped down models like that, trying to complete w/ the Chevy dealer across the street I guess...they even had a base model w/ a  6 (Chevy straight 6 through '76, Buick V6 for '77) and 3pd manual (column shift?)

They most certainly did, but that was to price way down below psychological price barriers, like $3,999.  You had to pay for the 3 speed THM 350 automatic.  I don't know if I've saved the new car stickers of cars my parents bought that would bear this out.

I think driving a 4,000 pound Cutlass or Regal with a "3 on the tree" would be a chore.  Funny to look at, yes.  Fun to own, not so much.

[Robert Hall]

14 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

They most certainly did, but that was to price way down below psychological price barriers, like $3,999.  You had to pay for the 3 speed THM 350 automatic.  I don't know if I've saved the new car stickers of cars my parents bought that would bear this out.

I think driving a 4,000 pound Cutlass or Regal with a "3 on the tree" would be a chore.  Funny to look at, yes.  Fun to own, not so much.

I'm always surprised when I read about cars from the 70s with manual 3-on-the-tree...that just seems like such an old timey feature, more like something from the 1940s-1950s... several B-bodies were still available w/ 3-on-the-tree as late as '71---and Biscayne/Bel Air through 1973 I believe.   3-on-the-tree was standard on the base Catalina, Le Sabre and Delta 88 in early '71, wonder how many were built.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

3-spd was actually standard in ALL ‘71 full-size Pontiacs in the beginning of the MY. Numbers built:

Catalina : 144
Catalina Brougham : 6
Bonneville : 4
Grand Ville : 2
Grand Prix had 116 manual trans cars, tho those were likely 99% 4-spds.

[Robert Hall]

Wowza...had no idea the Bonneville and Grand Ville got those.  I wonder if any still exist.  A 3spd column shift manual seems like such an insane idea in a huge 70s car, esp. a premium model like the Grand Ville.  I guess a few cheapskates didn't want to pay extra for an automatic..  

Edited June 22, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

Wait- I thought some bought manuals because they LIKED them?? ? Chances certainly are that those 6/4/2 units are long gone. I know of a really clean '70 Catalina Safari 3-spd, saw it at a car show a couple years ago, then again this month- it had been smacked into by a drunk.

Quote

A 3spd column shift manual seems like such an insane idea in a huge 70s car, esp. a premium model like the Grand Ville.

No bigger deal than a floor-mounted manual; you're doing the same thing in the same position... It was not only standard, it was the standard.

Didn't find Olds' info, but the 3-spd was standard on the '71 LeSabre, LeSabre Custom & Centurion.

Edited June 23, 2020 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

I could see buying a manual floor shift because I do like manuals----those are fun in sporty and performance cars,, but a column shift in a big family sedan seems so awkward...those cars probably also had am radios, manual windows, no A/C and vinyl bench seats..taxi spec.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

Well, we are talking about '71- I doubt AM-FM was standard on much below Cadillac.
I have one on my '64, but that (or '63) is the first year.

Pontiac vinyl in the '60s was stupendous quality- most people mistake it for leather. Not sure if it was the same quality by '71.
Grand Ville had standard variable-ratio PS, power discs and a 455... with a standard 3-spd. Upholstery was actually a knit nylon & vinyl combo- not taxi grade at all. The 3-spd just seems like an anomaly today.

Edited June 23, 2020 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

Yeah, it's amazing how basic typical cars were back then compared to the typical spec today...even in the 80s there still were a lot of cars made w/manual windows, am radios without A/C.    I remember those.

[balthazar]

I am used to PW but I don’t hate manual- my ‘94 had crank windows. NBD.

[Robert Hall]

I remember having crank windows, but haven't had a daily w/ them in over 25 years.  But given how rarely I put windows down, it's a moot point.   I guess I'm just used to having all the mod cons, as the Brits say. 

[balthazar]

I sold my ‘94 in ‘09.
B-59 is going to have crank windows.

[G. David Felt]

I remember learning to drive in my grandfathers truck, 3 on the tree. LOL

[Robert Hall]

I've never driven something w/ 3 on the tree (my folks had a Ford wagon w/ it before before I was born), but seen them at car shows..would like to drive something w/ one sometime..I have driven a couple of late 60s cars with manual drum brakes, manual steering, 3spd floor shift manual, V8s, am radio, and giant fixed steering wheels...was a surreal experience, so different from what I'm used to..

[balthazar]

• Same 'H' pattern, rotated 90 degrees. Literally the same operation as a floor-shift.
• Manual brakes have 1 advantage over power; power assist limits the force you can apply.
Manual brakes apply as much force as you can put on the pedal.
• Drum brakes have a distinct advantage over disc- they're 'self-energizing', which means they 'brake easier' than discs.
And if you have excellent, large drums, they cancel out the other advantage of discs- no fade.
I believe disc set-ups are often lighter in weight tho.

• I've driven these 3-spd on the column vehicles: '53 Merc, '64 Ford Custom, '76 C-10 pickup. I think I also drove a 3-spd van once... hazy there.

Edited June 23, 2020 by balthazar

[balthazar]

On 6/20/2020 at 9:04 AM, trinacriabob said:

From the reliable Olds 350 came the also reliable 260, 307, and 403.  The only negative I remember is that, by doing this, the cooling jackets in the 403 became narrower than optimal as the cylinder diameter was bored out.

403 is also a 'windowed' block- where they cast the webs running down to the crank journals with large holes in them.
It's too weak for anything above stock spec. Don't know if the 307, 350, 260 are the same, but no one modes those displacements (maybe some 350s).

[Robert Hall]

Went to the post office and bank this afternoon...saw a clean bright red '79 Trans Am..could have had a 403.  Or it could have been an 80-81 w/ a 301.  I didn't realize until recently that there were 80-81 T/As w/ the N/A 301 and shaker hood scoop, thought they were all turbos w/ the offset scoop.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Robert Hall

[trinacriabob]

22 hours ago, balthazar said:

3-spd was actually standard in ALL ‘71 full-size Pontiacs in the beginning of the MY. Numbers built:

Catalina : 144
Catalina Brougham : 6
Bonneville : 4
Grand Ville : 2
Grand Prix had 116 manual trans cars, tho those were likely 99% 4-spds.

Unbelievable stats.  How did it even pencil to have an option like this, with no economies of scale, on their production line?

21 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

A 3spd column shift manual seems like such an insane idea in a huge 70s car, esp. a premium model like the Grand Ville.  I guess a few cheapskates didn't want to pay extra for an automatic..  

Literally, a few.

I would hope that someone hung onto these as relics.

I'll say this ... that, by about '75, Pontiac was the best division at producing full-size (premium) vehicles that could pull of the sporty look, thanks to things like their dashboards and wheel options.

[Robert Hall]

1 minute ago, trinacriabob said:

 

I'll say this ... that, by about '75, Pontiac was the best division at producing full-size (premium) vehicles that could pull of the sporty look, thanks to things like their dashboards and wheel options.

The '75 Grand Ville convertible was a sweet looking car...really like the front end w/ the rectangular headlights that year.     My other favorite biggun of that year was the Buick Electra coupe.

[trinacriabob]

10 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

The '75 Grand Ville convertible was a sweet looking car...really like the front end w/ the rectangular headlights that year.     My other favorite biggun of that year was the Buick Electra coupe.

This was exactly what I was talking about.  Beautiful!  The best GM full-sizes during that decade. It would have been nice if they could have started them out with a 350, though.  Definitely sufficient. 

Once they downsized them, they downsized their base engines, too.

Edited June 23, 2020 by trinacriabob

[Robert Hall]

Styling-wise, my favorite year of '70s GM B/C/E models is 1971, followed by 1972...before the bumpers got too big and they still had 2dr hardtops.

[balthazar]

Except for the Riv : all snoozers. Good fodder for the white belt/ pants/ shoes crowd.

5 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

Unbelievable stats.  How did it even pencil to have an option like this, with no economies of scale, on their production line?

It was a carry-over from the prior 2 decades.

[balthazar]

 

[balthazar]

Lincoln Parade Float XXXL :

[G. David Felt]

Started physical therapy for a left frozen shoulder. At the place I spied this truck in the parking lot.