Chevrolet News:Rumorpile: New Document Reveals Possible C8 Powertrains

[William Maley]

This week, Hagerty obtained a document from General Motors' executive director in charge of program management, Michelle Braun that says development on future car and truck programs has been paused due to the COVID-19 outbreak. But the document also mentions some intriguing information on upcoming powertrains for the C8 Corvette. Here are the details,

• Corvette Z06: 5.5L DOHC V8 known as the LT6 that will produce 650 horsepower and 600 pound-feet of torque. No mention of any type of forced-induction.
• Corvette Gran Sport: 6.2L OHC V8 with a hybrid system that's expected to produce 600 horsepower and 500 pound-feet of torque.
• Corvette ZR1: Twin-Turbo 5.5L DOHC V8, dubbed LT7. Output is expected to be 850 horsepower and 800 pound-feet.
• Corvette Zora: The powerhouse of the C8, it will take the Twin-Turbo LT7 and augment with a hybrid system. This is expected to produce 1,000 horsepower and 975 pound-feet of torque.

Hagerty's report says the rollout of the new engines will begin in 2022 with the LT6, but the COVID-19 outbreak may push the plans back.

Source: Hagerty

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[loki]

we've heard of the 5.5L for awhile.

will those power numbers be able to be put to the ground? sure electronics will play a huge part.

how limited will these numbers be, 100 zoras a year? 1000 zr1s?

[G. David Felt]

Be interesting to see which power trains if any get AWD.

[ocnblu]

Some inneresting stuff there.

[smk4565]

6 hours ago, loki said:

we've heard of the 5.5L for awhile.

will those power numbers be able to be put to the ground? sure electronics will play a huge part.

how limited will these numbers be, 100 zoras a year? 1000 zr1s?

They need all wheel drive if they are adding power otherwise it won’t get to the ground.  The Z06 is probably the limit of 2 wheel drive.  They said Zora was 2025 model year, I assume it will be low volume, probably really expensive but why not go that route.  Good money maker to have a low volume high price version.

 

I have a big question on LT7 reliability.  Yes you can get 850 hp from a 5.5 liter if you rev the hell out of it, but I have to imagine that is going to be Ferrari like reliability and maintenance costs.  I wouldn’t be surprised if every 25-50k miles there was a $10-15,000 service  due.   

[William Maley]

21 hours ago, dfelt said:

Be interesting to see which power trains if any get AWD.

I would bet on the hybrids getting it because electric motors in the wheel hubs = AWD.

[USA-1]

The GS and Zora will be AWD with 150-200hp AC traction motor(s) in front, Zora, a Hypercar, will be limited production. Z06 LT6 5.5L is a NA flat plane crank V8 similar to the C8.R powerplant. The LT7 5.5L TT in the ZR1 and Zora are said to have regular cross plane cranks as forced induction is not usually a good thing for FPC's. These C8 models will be Beasts. Too bad all have been pushed out at least a year thanks to the current Coronavirus pandemic that originated in China. 

 

[USA-1]

On 4/24/2020 at 2:50 PM, smk4565 said:

I have a big question on LT7 reliability.  Yes you can get 850 hp from a 5.5 liter if you rev the hell out of it, but I have to imagine that is going to be Ferrari like reliability and maintenance costs.

GM LS and LT V8 engines are known for being some of the most reliable engines in the world, the LT7 DOHC V8 won't change that.

You don't have to rev the hell out of a lower compression TT engine like a high compression NA to get the power output. Although the LT6 5.5L NA FPC in the Z06 will have a 8k-9k rpm red-line being a FPC derived from the C8.R so she's made to rev. I love Ferrari's and the sound of their smaller bore 6.3L and 6.5L V12 howling scream, but they are not known for being as reliable as the GM LS/LT engines. Although, modern Ferrari's have come a long way along with the Corvette.

[smk4565]

31 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

GM LS and LT V8 engines are known for being some of the most reliable engines in the world, the LT7 DOHC V8 won't change that.

You don't have to rev the hell out of a lower compression TT engine like a high compression NA to get the power output. Although the LT6 5.5L NA FPC in the Z06 will have a 8k-9k rpm red-line being a FPC derived from the C8.R so she's made to rev. I love Ferrari's and the sound of their smaller bore 6.3L and 6.5L V12 howling scream, but they are not known for being as reliable as the GM LS/LT engines. Although, modern Ferrari's have come a long way along with the Corvette.

GM currently doesn’t make a turbo LS/LT engine, nor do they make a V8 hybrid.  So they are going into new territory.

Also Ferrari engines need a ton of maintenance, if the LT7 does also, I see no problem with that as long as they disclose it up front.

[balthazar]

Not currently, but they've done it before- it's not a challenge or 'new territory'.

[USA-1]

9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

GM currently doesn’t make a turbo LS/LT engine, nor do they make a V8 hybrid.  So they are going into new territory.

Also Ferrari engines need a ton of maintenance, if the LT7 does also, I see no problem with that as long as they disclose it up front.

Boosting engines (SC or TT) is definitely not new territory for GM. Recent past LSA and LS9 and current LT4 and LT5 are all modern boosted GM engines, with superchargers, but none-the-less boosted and they've been reliable engines. They've made a V8 Hybrid Tahoe/Yukon/Silverado/Sierra not that long ago ('08-'13) so also not new territory. I've driven a 2013 Tahoe Hybrid 6.0L V8, it was very smooth and quiet with a seamless transition between the two electric motors and the ICE V8, didn't sell well enough as it was too expensive for the time when the standard Tahoe started at $36k Hybrid started at over $50k, battery tech. just wasn't there yet. 

GM builds their LS/LT V8 engines to require minimal maintenance, including boosted setups. Ferrari's do require a ton of maintenance and they build them to that spec.

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Not currently, but they've done it before- it's not a challenge or 'new territory'.

True but the Blackwing V8, which is closest to the LT6/LT7, makes 131 hp per liter.  Now they are going to 155 hp per liter, so that is extra boost.  Now there are 200 hp/liter engines out there, so I don't think it should be an issue, but I don't think these are going to have LS1 maintenance costs.

The issue is really getting the power on the ground, they need an all wheel drive system that can handle 825 lb-ft.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

Boosting engines (SC or TT) is definitely not new territory for GM. Recent past LSA and LS9 and current LT4 and LT5 are all modern boosted GM engines, with superchargers, but none-the-less boosted and they've been reliable engines. They've made a V8 Hybrid Tahoe/Yukon/Silverado/Sierra not that long ago ('08-'13) so also not new territory. I've driven a 2013 Tahoe Hybrid 6.0L V8, it was very smooth and quiet with a seamless transition between the two electric motors and the ICE V8, didn't sell well enough as it was too expensive for the time when the standard Tahoe started at $36k Hybrid started at over $50k, battery tech. just wasn't there yet. 

GM builds their LS/LT V8 engines to require minimal maintenance, including boosted setups. Ferrari's do require a ton of maintenance and they build them to that spec.

This engine won't be like an LS/LT engine, they are building an engine more like the Panamera Turbo Hybrid or the 2021 AMG GT73 hybrid.  Maybe those cars aren't expensive to maintain, but I would guess they don't have NA V8 ownership costs.

 

[USA-1]

18 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

This engine won't be like an LS/LT engine, they are building an engine more like the Panamera Turbo Hybrid or the 2021 AMG GT73 hybrid.  Maybe those cars aren't expensive to maintain, but I would guess they don't have NA V8 ownership costs.

 

Ownership costs will still not be like Ferrari or AMG maintenance.

I was waiting to see if you'd catch it. The Blackwing LTA V8 that the LT6/7 are based off of is a Hot V TT V8 like the LT6/7 will be in the C8 for packaging and reduced lag. Not new territory for the General. 

Either way, these engines are going to be awesome in the C8. Traction won't be an issue with the Z06 as the base C8 has so much grip that guys are having a hard time getting the tires to spin to do burnouts with the 500hp LT2 with all nannies off. That's also why they moved the engine to mid ship...for better grip in the back. The Z cars and Zora will have wider, stickier Michelin PS Cup 2 tires as well.

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by USA-1

[oldshurst442]

That what was said above and the Zora will be a hybrid electric.  Meaning...it will have electric motors boosting that power to 1000HP.  How many electric motors?    3?  Maybe 4?   Well...undoubtedly, like @William Maley  said waaaay above there in the beginning...IT WILL BE AWD...

On 4/25/2020 at 11:34 AM, William Maley said:

I would bet on the hybrids getting it because electric motors in the wheel hubs = AWD.

But its nice to ignore all logical posts by logical people when some of us have a goddam biased agenda around here...

And it gets tiring...

PS:  We know NOTHING about the ZR1...  just that it will be a TTV8 possibly the 5.5liter and perhaps it WONT be a flat plane crank.   Perhaps Chevrolet engineers will have a traditional mechanical AWD system for it?

Maybe like @USA-1 was suggesting what the C8 platform is capable of with its suspension geometry and sticky sticky rubber wont need AWD? 

The Z06 I believe will have active aero. The other trims, ZR1, ZORA will most likely have it too...   I am not sure about the Grand Sport, though. 

Suffice it to say, the C8 platform is a monster...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

42 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Ownership costs will still not be like Ferrari or AMG maintenance.

I was waiting to see if you'd catch it. The Blackwing LTA V8 that the LT6/7 are based off of is a Hot V TT V8 like the LT6/7 will be in the C8 for packaging and reduced lag. Not new territory for the General. 

Either way, these engines are going to be awesome in the C8. Traction won't be an issue with the Z06 as the base C8 has so much grip that guys are having a hard time getting the tires to spin to do burnouts with the 500hp LT2 with all nannies off. That's also why they moved the engine to mid ship...for better grip in the back. The Z cars and Zora will have wider, stickier Michelin PS Cup 2 tires as well.

 

Chevy is going to build a high revving, flat plane, turbo DOHC V8, which is something out of a Ferrari playbook, and you expect low maintenance?  And maybe it will, but we won't know until they have been on the road 5 years.

Still need all wheel drive for the ZR1 and Zora, Lamborghinis are all wheel drive for a reason.  Would be good to have all wheel drive on the Z06 also.  And I mean all wheel drive from the V8 not just from the electric motors up front.   Because without AWD, that ZR1 will bet beat in 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs all day long by less powerful Porsches.

A 911 Carrera 4S does 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and that's with 443 hp and 390 lb-ft of torque.  That's giving up 100 lb-ft to the C8 and it is still quicker and the C8's 2.95 seconds.

Edited April 28, 2020 by smk4565

[USA-1]

26 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

PS:  We know NOTHING about the ZR1...  just that it will be a TTV8 possibly the 5.5liter and perhaps it WONT be a flat plane crank.   Perhaps Chevrolet engineers will have a traditional mechanical AWD system for it?

Maybe like @USA-1 was suggesting what the C8 platform is capable of with its suspension geometry and sticky sticky rubber wont need AWD? 

The Z06 I believe will have active aero. The other trims, ZR1, ZORA will most likely have it too...   I am not sure about the Grand Sport, though. 

Suffice it to say, the C8 platform is a monster...

This big Vette guy has great info. from multiple sources. 

 

 

 

[oldshurst442]

Ill look at it later.  Im gonna watch Young Guns II with the family right about now.

We saw Young Guns last night.

Yeah. Ive introduced my kids to the Old West during this pandemic...

[USA-1]

24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 something out of a Ferrari playbook

Still need all wheel drive for the ZR1 and Zora, Lamborghinis are all wheel drive for a reason.  Would be good to have all wheel drive on the Z06 also.

Zora is AWD with the Hybrid setup! What part are you missing?! ZR1 could still very well end up having the Hybrid/AWD setup when it comes out, nothing set in stone from GM yet, but myself and others on here have faith in Team Corvette engineers.

 

But not all Ferrari's are AWD so you couldn't say that right? You had to change it to Lambo to try to proof a meaningless point. 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by USA-1

[smk4565]

33 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Zora is AWD with the Hybrid setup! What part are you missing?! ZR1 could still very well end up having the Hybrid/AWD setup when it comes out, nothing set in stone from GM yet, but myself and others on here have faith in Team Corvette engineers.

 

But not all Ferrari's are AWD so you couldn't say that right? You had to change it to Lambo to try to proof a meaningless point. 

 

 

They should offer AWD on every Corvette.  Lambo and Porsche offer it on every model, AMG is moving to it on every car, the AMG GT is the last of their RWD only cars and it is at the end of the life cycle.  McLaren is going to have all wheel drive, Ferrari has it on some models, etc.  I think AWD would expand that appeal of the Corvette being the everyday, every man's sports car, if you can use it all winter long in the snow belt.

[USA-1]

54 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Chevy is going to build a high revving, flat plane, turbo DOHC V8, which is something out of a Ferrari playbook, and you expect low maintenance?  And maybe it will, but we won't know until they have been on the road 5 years.

Still need all wheel drive for the ZR1 and Zora, Lamborghinis are all wheel drive for a reason.  Would be good to have all wheel drive on the Z06 also.  And I mean all wheel drive from the V8 not just from the electric motors up front.   Because without AWD, that ZR1 will bet beat in 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs all day long by less powerful Porsches.

A 911 Carrera 4S does 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and that's with 443 hp and 390 lb-ft of torque.  That's giving up 100 lb-ft to the C8 and it is still quicker and the C8's 2.95 seconds.

0-60 and 1/4 mi.? Really? The C8 ZR1 will smoke a Carrera 4S, no competition. Corvette C8 is made as a track car first and foremost and does very well on the track, as designed, even as a current base model. FYI, even the C8 base model is getting under the 3 sec. mark to 60 mph by amateur owners.

Lets put the C8 up against an actual comparable mid-engine car. The Ferrari 488 GTB 660hp RWD and 488 Pista 710hp RWD. Heck even the 812 Superfast front ME 789hp is RWD. it's called active aero and proper down-force. Notice how heavy the AWD Lamborghini's are compared to Ferrari's and Vettes? All manufactures are trying to keep weight down where possible. Zora at 1000hp definitely needs to be AWD and it will be. 

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Chevy is going to build a high revving, flat plane, turbo DOHC V8, which is something out of a Ferrari playbook, and you expect low maintenance?

What are ferrari's crankshaft maintenance recommendations?

[USA-1]

23 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They should offer AWD on every Corvette.  Lambo and Porsche offer it on every model, AMG is moving to it on every car, the AMG GT is the last of their RWD only cars and it is at the end of the life cycle.  McLaren is going to have all wheel drive, Ferrari has it on some models, etc.  I think AWD would expand that appeal of the Corvette being the everyday, every man's sports car, if you can use it all winter long in the snow belt.

Even if all C8 Corvettes had AWD would you want to take the chance that some knucklehead might slide into your car in the snow or ice? It's hardly ever my car or my driving that I have to worry about it's the moron who isn't paying attention driving a $500 hoopdy with no insurance and can't drive for sh!t.  

[smk4565]

15 hours ago, USA-1 said:

0-60 and 1/4 mi.? Really? The C8 ZR1 will smoke a Carrera 4S, no competition. Corvette C8 is made as a track car first and foremost and does very well on the track, as designed, even as a current base model. FYI, even the C8 base model is getting under the 3 sec. mark to 60 mph by amateur owners.

Lets put the C8 up against an actual comparable mid-engine car. The Ferrari 488 GTB 660hp RWD and 488 Pista 710hp RWD. Heck even the 812 Superfast front ME 789hp is RWD. it's called active aero and proper down-force. Notice how heavy the AWD Lamborghini's are compared to Ferrari's and Vettes? All manufactures are trying to keep weight down where possible. Zora at 1000hp definitely needs to be AWD and it will be. 

The 911 Turbo S probably beats all them because it is all wheel drive.

Even the 2020 Ferrari F8 which replaces the 488 and has 710 hp, has the same 0-60 time as a 443 hp 911.  And look at lap times on tracks, the 911 and Huracan are among the best out there with all wheel drive.

 

[USA-1]

15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The 911 Turbo S probably beats all them because it is all wheel drive.

Even the 2020 Ferrari F8 which replaces the 488 and has 710 hp, has the same 0-60 time as a 443 hp 911.  And look at lap times on tracks, the 911 and Huracan are among the best out there with all wheel drive.

 

I never said AWD doesn't have better traction because obviously it does. I'm saying it adds a lot of weight and it's not always necessary. Lambo's are the porkers of the Italian exotics because of the AWD system. Zora will smoke a 911 TS even the C7 ZR1 is right on it's heels and C8 ZR1 will put the hurt on it. GM's eLSD rear diff. is pretty advanced and with Michelin PS Cup 2 rubber it'll be a good show. 

[USA-1]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The 911 Turbo S probably beats all them because it is all wheel drive.

 

		OR... Lap Times 5 Track Corvette ZR1 Porsche 911 Turbo S NCM Motorsport Park 1:25.93 1:32.07 Virginia International Raceway Grand East Course (post 01/2014) 2:39.50 2:46.80 Laguna Seca (post 1988) 1:32.46 1:33.21 Hockenheim Short 1:06.90 1:07.40 Willow Springs 1:23.70 1:24.26
		https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/epm24ggtlfz0

Edited April 28, 2020 by USA-1

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

		OR... Lap Times 5 Track Corvette ZR1 Porsche 911 Turbo S NCM Motorsport Park 1:25.93 1:32.07 Virginia International Raceway Grand East Course (post 01/2014) 2:39.50 2:46.80 Laguna Seca (post 1988) 1:32.46 1:33.21 Hockenheim Short 1:06.90 1:07.40 Willow Springs 1:23.70 1:24.26
		https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/epm24ggtlfz0

Thanks for posting, interesting how they state the Porsche is faster than the Corvette. Yes in the lower speeds it is and yet like all small engine sports cars, it runs out of power at 100 mph and from there the corvette continues to pull and speed away from 110 up to the top end where it is 4 seconds faster than the Porsche.

This just proves that American OEM can and does build auto's that are faster than the Europeans just like in Ford vs Ferrari. 

[smk4565]

All wheel drive 911 weighs less than a C8.  On the 911, awd adds 139 lbs, it isn’t that big a penalty.  
 

They can cut weight from the Corvette if they want to spend money, build it out of carbon fiber if they are worried about weight.  The AMG One is 1,000 lbs lighter than a C8, so weight can always be removed for a price.

[G. David Felt]

13 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

All wheel drive 911 weighs less than a C8.  On the 911, awd adds 139 lbs, it isn’t that big a penalty.  
 

They can cut weight from the Corvette if they want to spend money, build it out of carbon fiber if they are worried about weight.  The AMG One is 1,000 lbs lighter than a C8, so weight can always be removed for a price.

AMG One is a Vapor Auto and I doubt will see the light of day plus it is considered a Hyper Car exotic if it ever truly gets built. On top of the point that it does not compare to the Corvette or 911 in their class. 

Except the fact that America builds a better sports car at a lower price and discuss this rather than changing the story to attempt to always try and show off the AMG / MB as product you believe to be better, but is marketing only.

Even the SLS AMG cannot beat the ZR1.

Part 2 ZR1 versus AMG C63

Double Losses by the overrated AMG.

[G. David Felt]

Compilation of the 2019 Corvette ZR1 against the 2019 AMG GT.

https://www.asburyauto.com/compare/2019-chevrolet-corvette-vs-2019-mercedes-amg-gt/172003

To quote the write up since this is comparing all reviews and speaks VOLUMES:

Recommendations

© 1999 - 2020 Advanta-STAR Automotive Research. All rights reserved. This vehicle comparison and all of the content in it are provided only by license from Advanta-STAR Automotive Research Corporation of America. If you are not a legally licensed user of this vehicle comparison, it is against federal law to access it, copy it, forward it or use it in any manner whatsoever. Any unauthorized use of this vehicle comparison is a violation of U.S. and international law and is punishable criminally and civilly. 6IUEX-0KENZ 45.55.47.189 2020/04/28

J.D. Power and Associates rated the Corvette second among midsize premium sporty cars in owner reported satisfaction. This includes how well the vehicle performs and satisfies its owner’s expectations. The Mercedes AMG GT isn’t in the top three.

The Corvette was chosen as one of Car and Driver’s “Top Ten” for 15 of the last 22 years. The Mercedes AMG GT has never been a Car and Driver “Top Ten” pick.

The Corvette was selected by Automobile Magazine as their 2014 Car of the Year. The Mercedes AMG GT has never been chosen.

A group of representative automotive journalists from North America selected the Corvette as the 2014 North American Car of the Year. The Mercedes AMG GT has never been chosen.

The Chevrolet Corvette outsold the Mercedes AMG GT by over 12 to one during 2018.

© 1991-2018 Advanta-STAR Automotive Research. All rights reserved.

[USA-1]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Thanks for posting, interesting how they state the Porsche is faster than the Corvette. Yes in the lower speeds it is and yet like all small engine sports cars, it runs out of power at 100 mph and from there the corvette continues to pull and speed away from 110 up to the top end where it is 4 seconds faster than the Porsche.

This just proves that American OEM can and does build auto's that are faster than the Europeans just like in Ford vs Ferrari. 

Exactly, up until 110 mph the Porsche is barely faster, like a tenth of a sec. to 60. HA! 

'Murica! ??

[USA-1]

57 minutes ago, dfelt said:

AMG One is a Vapor Auto and I doubt will see the light of day plus it is considered a Hyper Car exotic if it ever truly gets built. On top of the point that it does not compare to the Corvette or 911 in their class. 

Except the fact that America builds a better sports car at a lower price and discuss this rather than changing the story to attempt to always try and show off the AMG / MB as product you believe to be better, but is marketing only.

Even the SLS AMG cannot beat the ZR1.

Part 2 ZR1 versus AMG C63

Double Losses by the overrated AMG.

LMAO! The ZR1 does a 20' burn out at the green and still stays with then smokes the AMG. Good stuff. Thanks for posting as well

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

AMG One is a Vapor Auto and I doubt will see the light of day plus it is considered a Hyper Car exotic if it ever truly gets built. On top of the point that it does not compare to the Corvette or 911 in their class. 

Except the fact that America builds a better sports car at a lower price and discuss this rather than changing the story to attempt to always try and show off the AMG / MB as product you believe to be better, but is marketing only.

Even the SLS AMG cannot beat the ZR1.

Part 2 ZR1 versus AMG C63

Double Losses by the overrated AMG.

The SLS AMG and that C63 are over 10 years old.

The E63 runs an 11.0 second 1/4 mile and a GT63 4-door a 10.9, those would beat that ZR1 easily but Car and Driver did clock a 2019 ZR1 at 10.8 seconds.  The GT coupe is not all wheel drive, that is why it has a 11.4 second 1/4 mile.   The next gen GT is going to be all wheel drive, they will get their straight line specs.  Although keep in mind an AMG GT with 577 hp beats a 755 hp ZR1 around the Nurburgring.  AMG has the chassis, brakes, handing, steering, and suspension already there, when they add all wheel drive they can add power.

 

Corvette is fast but doesn't have a nice interior, I'd like to see the Corvette have a 2021 Escalade level interior and Super Cruise so that is is more on par with interiors you get from other high end sports cars.

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Compilation of the 2019 Corvette ZR1 against the 2019 AMG GT.

https://www.asburyauto.com/compare/2019-chevrolet-corvette-vs-2019-mercedes-amg-gt/172003

To quote the write up since this is comparing all reviews and speaks VOLUMES:

Recommendations

© 1999 - 2020 Advanta-STAR Automotive Research. All rights reserved. This vehicle comparison and all of the content in it are provided only by license from Advanta-STAR Automotive Research Corporation of America. If you are not a legally licensed user of this vehicle comparison, it is against federal law to access it, copy it, forward it or use it in any manner whatsoever. Any unauthorized use of this vehicle comparison is a violation of U.S. and international law and is punishable criminally and civilly. 6IUEX-0KENZ 45.55.47.189 2020/04/28

J.D. Power and Associates rated the Corvette second among midsize premium sporty cars in owner reported satisfaction. This includes how well the vehicle performs and satisfies its owner’s expectations. The Mercedes AMG GT isn’t in the top three.

The Corvette was chosen as one of Car and Driver’s “Top Ten” for 15 of the last 22 years. The Mercedes AMG GT has never been a Car and Driver “Top Ten” pick.

The Corvette was selected by Automobile Magazine as their 2014 Car of the Year. The Mercedes AMG GT has never been chosen.

A group of representative automotive journalists from North America selected the Corvette as the 2014 North American Car of the Year. The Mercedes AMG GT has never been chosen.

The Chevrolet Corvette outsold the Mercedes AMG GT by over 12 to one during 2018.

© 1991-2018 Advanta-STAR Automotive Research. All rights reserved.

The AMG GT costs too much to qualify for Car and Driver's 10 best list.  

The AMG GT R is faster around the Nurburgring than any Corvette ever made. 

As far as sales volume goes, the Corvette costs E-class money, if the Corvette were double the price that volume would be gone.

The Corvette is outstanding performance per dollar, perhaps the best performance per dollar in the world, but that doesn't make it better than other cars.  Better value maybe, but not a better car.

Edited April 29, 2020 by smk4565

[oldshurst442]

26 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Corvette is fast but doesn't have a nice interior, I'd like to see the Corvette have a 2021 Escalade level interior and Super Cruise so that is is more on par with interiors you get from other high end sports cars.

Let me introduce you to the C8 Corvette

 

Supercruise will eventually arrive in a year or two with the other iterations like maybe the Grand Sport...maybe it will even be available with the Z51 package next year...

Remember though, Corvette prices arent suppose to reach boutique levels...so maybe interiors might take a hit a tad and the best that could be had is a Z51 interior even with a Zora...

But that C8 improvement on its interiors is awesome...I wouldnt be asking more...honestly, a C4 Corvette interior was not bad for what you got and it was BETTER than the Porsche interior of the same time frame no matter what anybody says.

A C5 interior was also not bad for what you got and yes...the same 911 era interior was a lot better as compared to its last gen and the C5 Vette's,  but then again, the 911's price tag soared.

A C6 interior was not bad either, but the pattern here is to bitch about the Corvette's interior. 

A C7 interior was great, but the pattern continues as to bitch about Corvette interiors.

A C8 interior is AWESOME and the pattern to bitch about Corvette interiors SHOULD stop no matter how expensive some of these trims get...but the pattern to most anti-Vette folk will be to bitch about Corvette interiors...

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by oldshurst442

[USA-1]

10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The SLS AMG and that C63 are over 10 years old.

The E63 runs an 11.0 second 1/4 mile and a GT63 4-door a 10.9, those would beat that ZR1 easily but Car and Driver did clock a 2019 ZR1 at 10.8 seconds.  The GT coupe is not all wheel drive, that is why it has a 11.4 second 1/4 mile.   The next gen GT is going to be all wheel drive, they will get their straight line specs.  Although keep in mind an AMG GT with 577 hp beats a 755 hp ZR1 around the Nurburgring.  AMG has the chassis, brakes, handing, steering, and suspension already there, when they add all wheel drive they can add power.

 

Corvette is fast but doesn't have a nice interior, I'd like to see the Corvette have a 2021 Escalade level interior and Super Cruise so that is is more on par with interiors you get from other high end sports cars.

Uh, that's a C6 ZR1, first one was 2009 so...

 

You are all over the board like usual. You obviously haven't sat in a C8, I have and they are very nice, great fit and finish with leather, carbon fiber and polished aluminum trim everywhere inside with very comfortable and supportive seats as well. Even the C7 has a great very nice interior with great seats, you are stuck in 10+ years ago land. 

[oldshurst442]

6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 

The Corvette is outstanding performance per dollar, perhaps the best performance per dollar in the world, but that doesn't make it better than other cars.  Better value maybe, but not a better car.

 To you.

To me...the Corvette IS the best sports car in the world.

Why?

Because the Corvette costs thousands of dollars less and I get almost the performance that ANY other sports car does.

And...I could spend just a tiny bit more on Chevy's ENORMOUS aftermarket performance goodies and I BETTER by ENORMOUS amounts ANY sports car in the world.   And my Corvette would be just as reliable as it is stock from the factory.

The AMG GT will cost you your arm and leg on repair bills after the warranty is up and if you decide to modify it...it will cost you your other arm and leg doing so...and reliability? By God man, there are no more limbs for you to barter with to pay for that...you'd be selling your organs...

 

[oldshurst442]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

All wheel drive 911 weighs less than a C8.  On the 911, awd adds 139 lbs, it isn’t that big a penalty.  
 

They can cut weight from the Corvette if they want to spend money, build it out of carbon fiber if they are worried about weight.  The AMG One is 1,000 lbs lighter than a C8, so weight can always be removed for a price.

The 911 Turbo S is 3500 LBS...

A Carrera is 3100lbs.  3500lbs because of AWD and THAT makes it porky if you wanna be honest about it.  

A C8 is 3600lbs.   And that would be because Corvette's "PDK" unit is heavy, but sturdy to take all that possible high torque in future models. And for the folk that will heavily modify their base Corvettes. Remember, Chevy's V8 engine has the world's most aftermarket support. And that aftermarket support pushes these engines to ungodly levels of horsepower and torque...

Carbon fibre also adds cost.  Its not an engineering problem. Its more of a "how to mass produce carbon fibre at a lower cost so it could be viable to sell Corvette at 60 000-90 000 dollars and to do that profitable" problem. 

But honestly, YOU as a Mercedes lover, you really dont want Chevy Corvette engineers to figure out how to mass produce carbon fibre on the cheap because your ego will just explode...

PS: its not only to mass produce carbon fibre on the cheap on Corvette's assembly line  that poses a problem. Its also to find a way to to repair carbon fibre on the cheap when Corvette body panels get accidented because Corvettes are not garage queen supercars.  They are raced. They are daily driven. Corvettes get smacked around pretty good.   

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

45 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

As far as sales volume goes, the Corvette costs E-class money, if the Corvette were double the price that volume would be gone.

*SIGH*

The thing is...

THAT bolded what I quoted...is what THE Corvette is all about.

THAT is the VERY definition of Corvette. 

THAT is why its a...CHEVROLET and NOT a Cadillac.

Funny...you are the one to be pushing for a mid-engined Cadillac to have all that high horsepower and for the Corvette to sgtay neutered. YOU are the one to be confused as to why GM uses a Chevrolet as its halo car.

Well...THAT right there is one identity marker in what makes the Corvette a Corvette and what makes Corvette special in the car world and why the Corvette sells the amount it sells.

The Corvette does have trims that are double.  A 2019 ZR1 was 135 000.  And you are right. The ZR1 was not the volume seller.

But the ZR1 is not what Chevrolet banks on to sell on volume.... 

Chevrolet has a business model for the Corvette. That business model has been a success for Chevrolet for the last 50 years plus.  

 

[smk4565]

47 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Remember though, Corvette prices arent suppose to reach boutique levels...so maybe interiors might take a hit a tad and the best that could be had is a Z51 interior even with a Zora...

 

 

That is why I have long said Cadillac should have a car above the Corvette.  If you want an interior nicer than an Escalade and you want a sports car, you have to buy something European.  The Corvette can't play in that level, nor should it, the Corvette works because it isn't crazy expensive.  But clearly there are people that think $300k is cheap for a new car, that is why they walk right past the Rolls Royce Ghost and buy a Phantom.  

[smk4565]

52 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 To you.

To me...the Corvette IS the best sports car in the world.

Why?

Because the Corvette costs thousands of dollars less and I get almost the performance that ANY other sports car does.

That's a performance per dollar argument.  90% the performance at 50% the price, but some people want that last 10%.    And Zora will give that to them.  So i am glad GM is going up after that high performance level.

 

This also has a higher top speed than a C8:

 

So why can't there be a Cadillac whether it be a mid-engine coupe, front engine coupe or a full size sedan with C8 performance.  Bentley made a car the size and weight of an Escalade do 207 mph, why can't Cadillac?   And same goes for Mercedes, Brabus tuned an S-class to go 217 mph, but I feel like AMG should be able to take the next gen S73 to 217 mph to beat Bentley.

[balthazar]

“No body buys those cars”.

[oldshurst442]

@smk4565

You know what is funny and you havent realized it?

You...yourself...keep on comparing other cars to the Corvette.  

Do you know what that signifies?

Do you know what that means when you...yourself, keeps on throwing all kinds of cars trying to take down the Corvette?

Its not a bad thing, for the Corvette, to be compared to cars costing thousands upon thousands of dollars...and thousands more than then the Corvette...

Its not a good thing... for the other cars you keep throwing at the Vette to try to prove a point... 

The only car consistently mentioned in your rants...is the Corvette.

Think about it...

Edited April 29, 2020 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

26 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Funny...you are the one to be pushing for a mid-engined Cadillac to have all that high horsepower and for the Corvette to sgtay neutered. YOU are the one to be confused as to why GM uses a Chevrolet as its halo car.

 

 

GM's halo product should not be a Chevrolet, their value brand.  Cadillac as the top brand, should have the halo product.   

[ocnblu]

Chevrolet Corvette has been, and should ALWAYS be, the jewel in the crown.  The C8 is a culmination of 67 years, it is untouchable.

Edited April 29, 2020 by ocnblu

[smk4565]

3 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

@smk4565

You know what is funny and you havent realized it?

You...yourself...keep on comparing other cars to the Corvette.  

Do you know what that signifies?

Do you know what that means when you...yourself, keeps on throwing all kinds of cars trying to take down the Corvette?

Its not a bad thing, for the Corvette, to be compared to cars costing thousands upon thousands of dollars...

Its bad for the other cars you keep throwing at the Vette to try to prove a point...

I am just saying there are dozens of fast cars out there.  The Tesla Model S can do 0-60 in 2.3 seconds, a Chiron can top 260 mph, there are full size sedans that can do 207 mph, the 911 GT2 RS can do the Nurburgring in 6:47, etc.  Heck there are SUV's that go over 200 mph now.  There is a lot of performance out there, and more than anyone that isn't a pro driver can even use on a track let alone the street.  So you need other differentiators that just performance.  They are all fast, so what gets someone to pick a 911 over an AMG GT or a F8 over a Huracan?  In most cases it is brand image.  The the car sells on the brand name more than the performance. 

7 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Chevrolet Corvette has been, and should ALWAYS be, the jewel in the crown.  The C8 is a culmination of 67 years, it is untouchable.

If a Chevrolet is better than any Cadillac, why is Cadillac still here?  

[oldshurst442]

Just now, smk4565 said:

I am just saying there are dozens of fast cars out there.  The Tesla Model S can do 0-60 in 2.3 seconds, a Chiron can top 260 mph, there are full size sedans that can do 207 mph, the 911 GT2 RS can do the Nurburgring in 6:47, etc.  Heck there are SUV's that go over 200 mph now.  There is a lot of performance out there, and more than anyone that isn't a pro driver can even use on a track let alone the street.  So you need other differentiators that just performance.  They are all fast, so what gets someone to pick a 911 over an AMG GT or a F8 over a Huracan?  In most cases it is brand image.  The the car sells on the brand name more than the performance. 

Ill answer you this with someone else's post...that answered you but you decided to ignore...

9 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Chevrolet Corvette has been, and should ALWAYS be, the jewel in the crown.  The C8 is a culmination of 67 years, it is untouchable.

 

[G. David Felt]

21 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

That's a performance per dollar argument.  90% the performance at 50% the price, but some people want that last 10%.    And Zora will give that to them.  So i am glad GM is going up after that high performance level.

 

This also has a higher top speed than a C8:

 

So why can't there be a Cadillac whether it be a mid-engine coupe, front engine coupe or a full size sedan with C8 performance.  Bentley made a car the size and weight of an Escalade do 207 mph, why can't Cadillac?   And same goes for Mercedes, Brabus tuned an S-class to go 217 mph, but I feel like AMG should be able to take the next gen S73 to 217 mph to beat Bentley.

First off, in those videos that you attack that are PROOF is that the 2019 AMG could NOT hold their own against the 2019 Corvette ZR1!

Enough said, MERCEDES LOST!

Two, The bulk of society does not buy nor care about the overpriced auto's you mention here nor would you race a Bently, Brabus, Phantom or even an Escalade against a Corvette ZR1!

Final Point, is this thread is about the C8 Corvette. 

The fact that you have to throw auto's priced 4 time or more against the corvette in your attempt to prove that America cannot build a true performance race car shows that you would rather be an Ostrich with your head in the sand than one to appreciate true engineering power.

Maybe you should spend a little time at this site to fully understand the C8 Better!

https://www.chevrolet.com/performance/corvette

I also am sure once the Carbon Fiber rims are made available much like what the Ford Mustang has that we will see further weight reductions as they move forward with other areas that can be changed reducing weight. I would not be surprised to see them point out the weight savings on the 2021 ZR1

[smk4565]

My original point about those other really fast high end cars is most are all wheel drive.  When you go to these crazy power levels you need to send it to all 4 wheels, otherwise it doesn't really matter if you put 2,000 hp in a car, it won't get to the ground.