Genesis News: 2021 Genesis G80 Packs New Styling, Two Turbo Engines

[frogger]

19 hours ago, regfootball said:

even the Lexus will be deeply discounted though, too...

 

And what is faux luxury about the new G80?  Surely more luxury than any Cadillac outside the Escalade...

 

[Paolino]

HATE the grille.  Not a fan of the taillamps.  The interior is incredibly sweet.

[smk4565]

After seeing the new G80 launch and Q&A on Motortrend, the car is nice.  The interior looks good, the materials look good, but I don't know that is any nicer than an E-class or 5-series, at best it is on par with them.  And it doesn't have the power or performance of them, doesn't have any pedigree either.    G80 is a good effort, but not going to beat the big boys.

[riviera74]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

After seeing the new G80 launch and Q&A on Motor Trend, the car is nice.  The interior looks good, the materials look good, but I don't know that is any nicer than an E-class or 5-series, at best it is on par with them.  And it doesn't have the power or performance of them, doesn't have any pedigree either.    G80 is a good effort, but not going to beat the big boys.

It is never good enough with badge snobs.  Customers who do not worship the false god of German engineering will have a lot to like about the new G80.

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, riviera74 said:

It is never good enough with badge snobs.  Customers who do not worship the false god of German engineering will have a lot to like about the new G80.

G80 is supposed to start just under $50k, and the press car photos are no doubt more like $70k, so pretty close to German car money, G80 starts about $5k lower than E-class or 5-series.  

The G80 doesn't have more performance, it doesn't have a hybrid, it doesn't have any tech that isn't already on the competition.   Likewise with the GV80.  They haven't done anything better than what is already offered for roughly the same money.

So what's the appeal here?  Yes it is better than the Lexus GS which dies after 2020 model year, better than an Acura RLX or Lincoln Continental, both of which will probably be dead in a year or two, but aside from that, where are they finding buyers in a shrinking sedan segment?  Are they going to pull people out of SUVs into a G80?  Are they hoping Sonata drivers spend double the money and upgrade to G80?  I think this car will be a sales dud much like I predicted the Kia Stinger would flop and it has.  The Stinger should have been priced dollar to dollar even with a Mustang and been marketed as Mustang/Camaro with 4 doors that can fit a family.  Instead they tried to spin it as a 3-series competitor and that was huge miss.  

[ocnblu]

Well it has a longer warranty than Mercedes-Benz, which will make it more attractive to people why BUY cars, rather than rent them and dump them.

[smk4565]

I don’t think an extra year of warranty is going to sway any buyers on a luxury car.

[frogger]

Such a meh risk averse segment now these midsize lux sedans.. at least the Genesis is a different look inside and out that hasn't grown tired yet.

 

 

 

 

 

[ocnblu]

34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I don’t think an extra year of warranty is going to sway any buyers on a luxury car.

4 years/50k miles (including powertrain) with Benz, v. 10 years/100k miles on powertrain with Genesis.  Now, renting a car and dumping it, it would be a moot point, but buying the car with plans on getting your money's worth out of it over a span of 100k miles, Genesis wins.

Edited May 9, 2020 by ocnblu

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

4 years/50k miles (including powertrain) with Benz, v. 10 years/100k miles on powertrain with Genesis.  Now, renting a car and dumping it, it would be a moot point, but buying the car with plans on getting your money's worth out of it over a span of 100k miles, Genesis wins.

And yet their cars don't sell, even when under cutting competitors by $5k on G70 and G80 and offering a longer warranty.  What else they got?

I think they might gain a bit more traction in crossovers where Acura and Infiniti have dated product, the XT4, XT5 are nothing remarkable, Lincoln Nautilus is pretty average.   But Lexus and the Germans are pretty strong there too, we'll have to see how the GV70 looks when it hits as that is the key segment.

[balthazar]

7 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I don’t think an extra year of warranty is going to sway any buyers on a luxury car.

Lemmee get this straight.

6 years of more warranty isn’t going to sway any buyers... but 15 seconds quicker around a race course no one in this country will ever drive on will???

[surreal1272]

5 hours ago, balthazar said:

Lemmee get this straight.

6 years of more warranty isn’t going to sway any buyers... but 15 seconds quicker around a race course no one in this country will ever drive on will???

Of course it will because it’s a Mercedes. Didn’t you know?

[surreal1272]

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And yet their cars don't sell, even when under cutting competitors by $5k on G70 and G80 and offering a longer warranty.  What else they got?

I think they might gain a bit more traction in crossovers where Acura and Infiniti have dated product, the XT4, XT5 are nothing remarkable, Lincoln Nautilus is pretty average.   But Lexus and the Germans are pretty strong there too, we'll have to see how the GV70 looks when it hits as that is the key segment.

Why do you ignore the obvious? Besides the CUV craze, it’s biggest barrier to sales is dealer network. Do you honestly think Mercedes would sell worth a damn with the same number of dealerships as Genesis?

Edited May 10, 2020 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

Kia Stinger is rumored to die after just one generation.

 

Genesis has a bad dealer network but that is their fault, and own mismanagement of the brand launch.  In 2018 they had more dealers than Lexus before the closed half of them.  Still they have about 2/3rd the dealers of other luxury marques.  But what use is this warranty if they don’t have dealerships to service the cars.

Jaguar offers 5/60,000 bumper to bumper warranty with 5 years complimentary maintenance and 5 years roadside assistance.  Hasn’t helped sales any, they are still terrible.  Genesis offers 3 years complimentary maintenance.

 

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Kia Stinger is rumored to die after just one generation.

 

Genesis has a bad dealer network but that is their fault, and own mismanagement of the brand launch.  In 2018 they had more dealers than Lexus before the closed half of them.  Still they have about 2/3rd the dealers of other luxury marques.  But what use is this warranty if they don’t have dealerships to service the cars.

Jaguar offers 5/60,000 bumper to bumper warranty with 5 years complimentary maintenance and 5 years roadside assistance.  Hasn’t helped sales any, they are still terrible.  Genesis offers 3 years complimentary maintenance.

 

“Bad dealer network” and not enough dealers are not the same thing. You pretty much confirmed that with your “ But what use is this warranty if they don’t have dealerships to service the cars.” Remark, which contradicts the rest of your post. Your Jaguar example is weak at best, as well because they are and always have been unreliable junk. Genesis, even in its short lifespan, has a much better track record in the reliability department. This is not even debatable. 

 

Oh and while their dealership count was cut almost in half, they are almost at that original count now (went down to 178 and is now at 318). Your “2/3” remark also supports my lack of network options. Stop contradicting yourself. Again, their lack of sales, aside from the CUV craze, is because of lack of dealerships, which you confirmed so I am not sure what point you are trying to make here but it fell flat.

 

One last thing. The Stinger is another horrible example on your part and you’re only partially right about it. It was not ever a 3 series competitor since it was clearly LARGER than the BMW. As it was already pointed out to you, it was a 4 series competitor, although not really even that. It problem is like many others before. Wrong car at the wrong time. Furthermore, yes it is rumored to be cut after only one generation. However, it is also getting a revisions and more power for 2021 so the rumor you posted may be just that, a rumor. 

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/05/07/2021-kia-stinger-spy-photos/

Edited May 10, 2020 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

7 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

“Bad dealer network” and not enough dealers are not the same thing. You pretty much confirmed that with your “ But what use is this warranty if they don’t have dealerships to service the cars.” Remark, which contradicts the rest of your post. Your Jaguar example is weak at best, as well because they are and always have been unreliable junk. Genesis, even in its short lifespan, has a much better track record in the reliability department. This is not even debatable. 

 

Oh and while their dealership count was cut almost in half, they are almost at that original count now (went down to 178 and is now at 318). Your “2/3” remark also supports my lack of network options. Stop contradicting yourself. Again, their lack of sales, aside from the CUV craze, is because of lack of dealerships, which you confirmed so I am not sure what point you are trying to make here but it fell flat.

 

One last thing. The Stinger is another horrible example on your part and you’re only partially right about it. It was not ever a 3 series competitor since it was clearly LARGER than the BMW. As it was already pointed out to you, it was a 4 series competitor, although not really even that. It problem is like many others before. Wrong car at the wrong time. Furthermore, yes it is rumored to be cut after only one generation. However, it is also getting a revisions and more power for 2021 so the rumor you posted may be just that, a rumor. 

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/05/07/2021-kia-stinger-spy-photos/

By bad dealer network I didn't mean the dealerships themselves were bad, but that the network was too small.  

Now if they are back to 318 dealerships, that is about what Lexus has, BMW and Mercedes have about 350-360.  So Genesis isn't that out numbered and yet their sales volume is very low.  Mostly that low volume is no crossovers, but crossovers have been on the rise for 10 years.  Why on earth did they launch a brand with 3 sedans first, before making a crossover?  That is totally incompetent management.

 

Genesis has better reliability than Jaguar,  but warranty didn't help Jaguar, and it isn't helping Genesis either.  Unless by not offering a 5 year warranty, their sales would drop even more.   Genesis is trying to make an argument that they have the more reliable car with the best warranty, but Lexus already has that reliability title built over decades.  

The Stinger is larger than a 3-series sure, but Kia positioned that car as premium sports sedan and some of the German sedan names were thrown around.  When really no one wants a $50,000 Kia, even if it has 365 hp.  You can get a 400 hp Mustang for $40k and the interior is about the same.  Even within Kia, the Telluride has a better interior than the Stinger and the Telluride is a 3 row SUV with AWD that should cost more than a 2 wheel drive mid-size sedan.  Stinger was the wrong car because of where they priced it in the market.  I could also argue that a performance SUV might have sold, in a sea of FWD crossovers like Edge, Blazer, Passport, etc, if the Stringer was a 365 hp rear drive SUV priced int he $30-40k range with that bunch it could have been a success.

 

So the big problem with Hyundai/Kia/Genesis is timing.  These guys do what the Germans did 10 years ago, because by the time they copy the idea, design the car, get the budget, build the models, wind tunnel it, track test it, crash test it, etc then get it to production, they are a generation behind where the market is. 

[smk4565]

17 hours ago, balthazar said:

Lemmee get this straight.

6 years of more warranty isn’t going to sway any buyers... but 15 seconds quicker around a race course no one in this country will ever drive on will???

6 years of powertrain warranty, but only 1 year of bumper to bumper.  Something that doesn't matter to a lease customer, which is the majority of the luxury market.    That extra warranty may help, selling cars at 80% the cost of rivals I am sure helps, but Genesis still has really low sales figures.  So clearly what they have done isn't enough.  

The Nurburgring is more about the engineering that went into the car.  Is this Genesis a fancy Hyundai, or does it have Porsche or Mercedes level engineering?  I know Genesis has it's own rear drive platform, but do they have engineers at Genesis that can make a G80 perform on par with a mid-engine super car, because the Germans have engineers that can. 

[surreal1272]

17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

By bad dealer network I didn't mean the dealerships themselves were bad, but that the network was too small.  

Now if they are back to 318 dealerships, that is about what Lexus has, BMW and Mercedes have about 350-360.  So Genesis isn't that out numbered and yet their sales volume is very low.  Mostly that low volume is no crossovers, but crossovers have been on the rise for 10 years.  Why on earth did they launch a brand with 3 sedans first, before making a crossover?  That is totally incompetent management.

 

Genesis has better reliability than Jaguar,  but warranty didn't help Jaguar, and it isn't helping Genesis either.  Unless by not offering a 5 year warranty, their sales would drop even more.   Genesis is trying to make an argument that they have the more reliable car with the best warranty, but Lexus already has that reliability title built over decades.  

The Stinger is larger than a 3-series sure, but Kia positioned that car as premium sports sedan and some of the German sedan names were thrown around.  When really no one wants a $50,000 Kia, even if it has 365 hp.  You can get a 400 hp Mustang for $40k and the interior is about the same.  Even within Kia, the Telluride has a better interior than the Stinger and the Telluride is a 3 row SUV with AWD that should cost more than a 2 wheel drive mid-size sedan.  Stinger was the wrong car because of where they priced it in the market.  I could also argue that a performance SUV might have sold, in a sea of FWD crossovers like Edge, Blazer, Passport, etc, if the Stringer was a 365 hp rear drive SUV priced int he $30-40k range with that bunch it could have been a success.

 

So the big problem with Hyundai/Kia/Genesis is timing.  These guys do what the Germans did 10 years ago, because by the time they copy the idea, design the car, get the budget, build the models, wind tunnel it, track test it, crash test it, etc then get it to production, they are a generation behind where the market is. 

You clearly did not read the article posted. It was just the lack of dealerships. It was the lack of inventory. Just stop the goal post moving. 

 

And for the love of god, STOP comparing a FOUR DOOR Kia (with a hatch) to Mustangs and Camaros. Same applies to comparing a Stinger to a Telluride. This simply not an apples to apples comparison in any way shape or form. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

You clearly did not read the article posted. It was just the lack of dealerships. It was the lack of inventory. Just stop the goal post moving. 

 

And for the love of god, STOP comparing a FOUR DOOR Kia (with a hatch) to Mustangs and Camaros. Same applies to comparing a Stinger to a Telluride. This simply not an apples to apples comparison in any way shape or form. 

Here's the thing about Genesis:  the model line up, the dealer network, the inventory, those are all things they control.  Any miscue with those is self inflicted.  Things their management screwed up.  If they can't get basics like dealer network and inventory right, I don't know how they get to building vehicles considered among the best in the world.  

More power isn't going to save the Stinger, the car is priced wrong.  SUVs have crushed sedan sales because buyers needed more room, more cargo space, wanted AWD, etc.  Coupes are almost disappearing from the market, because buyers want more space, back seats, etc.  

The Toyota Camry's drop in volume is mostly because of the RAV4.  That is where the sales went.  Today's RAV4 segment is the mid-size sedan segment of 15 years ago.  Today's sedan market is the coupe market of 20 years ago.  Kia should have gone after buyers that wanted a sports car like a Camaro/Mustang/BRZ but need 4 doors and all wheel drive.  They marketed the car to the wrong people, on top of pricing it wrong.  

 

My comparison with Telluride is only that the Telluride has a nice interior, the Stinger doesn't and they come from the same company.  Telluride is best in class interior, the Stinger is probably the worst interior you can get for a car of that price point.

Edited May 11, 2020 by smk4565

[balthazar]

OEMs only have so much control over the dealer network, since they all are independently owned franchises. They can help direct placement and influence dealer appearance, but OEMs can't open dealerships. They can only offer a franchise to another party that wants to.

[surreal1272]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Here's the thing about Genesis:  the model line up, the dealer network, the inventory, those are all things they control.  Any miscue with those is self inflicted.  Things their management screwed up.  If they can't get basics like dealer network and inventory right, I don't know how they get to building vehicles considered among the best in the world.  

More power isn't going to save the Stinger, the car is priced wrong.  SUVs have crushed sedan sales because buyers needed more room, more cargo space, wanted AWD, etc.  Coupes are almost disappearing from the market, because buyers want more space, back seats, etc.  

The Toyota Camry's drop in volume is mostly because of the RAV4.  That is where the sales went.  Today's RAV4 segment is the mid-size sedan segment of 15 years ago.  Today's sedan market is the coupe market of 20 years ago.  Kia should have gone after buyers that wanted a sports car like a Camaro/Mustang/BRZ but need 4 doors and all wheel drive.  They marketed the car to the wrong people, on top of pricing it wrong.  

 

My comparison with Telluride is only that the Telluride has a nice interior, the Stinger doesn't and they come from the same company.  Telluride is best in class interior, the Stinger is probably the worst interior you can get for a car of that price point.

Talks about cars being priced wrong while Benz sells $60K A Class cars that are smaller than your average Honda Civic. Seriously. 

 

That poor bar gets a lot of work from you, what with all the moving but since you want to bring up Genesis and their dealer network as it relates to sales, I wonder how you would felt about Benz 55 years ago when they struggled even more when they entered the US market.

 

 

[riviera74]

You also have to adjust for badge snobbery.  MB/BMW were poor sellers prior to the 1980s.  Lexus was nothing prior to 1990, then went from strength to strength.  Now Genesis is where Lexus was about 25 years ago.  They do NEED more crossovers than just the GV80, and really soon.

[smk4565]

9 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Talks about cars being priced wrong while Benz sells $60K A Class cars that are smaller than your average Honda Civic. Seriously. 

 

That poor bar gets a lot of work from you, what with all the moving but since you want to bring up Genesis and their dealer network as it relates to sales, I wonder how you would felt about Benz 55 years ago when they struggled even more when they entered the US market.

 

 

But the US has never been Mercedes key market, it is their #3 market.   And from that chart sales were a pretty steady rise and even more so in the 80s and 90s as they added more models.  Also Mercedes came in way higher in price than Genesis is at.  

 

Maybe Genesis will add more models and grow, but in a declining auto market I don't see who they are stealing gobs of market share off of.

[surreal1272]

32 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

You also have to adjust for badge snobbery.  MB/BMW were poor sellers prior to the 1980s.  Lexus was nothing prior to 1990, then went from strength to strength.  Now Genesis is where Lexus was about 25 years ago.  They do NEED more crossovers than just the GV80, and really soon.

Exactly but according to SMK, everyone has to succeed and outsell everyone else, right from the start because that Is how Benz did...oh wait.

[smk4565]

I am not saying Genesis has to outsell everyone.  I am saying if they want to win, they need SUV's obviously, and to build a better car.  Mercedes built the best car, that is why they took over the luxury market.  

I like the G80's new look, the interior is nice too.  But is it better than the competition?  I don't think better, so is the $5k price discount enough to overcome that?  

Genesis is basically doing what Cadillac did 6-7 years ago, with ATS, CTS and CT6, that is what G70, G80, and G90 are in size and price, they are almost identical.  This G80 is nicer than the CTS, and G90 is nicer than CT6 was, but they probably don't  have the chassis dynamics, so that could be a trade off.  And those Cadillac sedans didn't find success 5 years ago, now the sedan segment is even less, how does Genesis succeed where Cadillac failed?  

[balthazar]

"Mercedes built the best car, that is why they took over the luxury market."

It took MB like 50 years to 'take over'; 50 years and a huge downmarket push for volume. They also did it with plastic door handles, rubber bumpers and vinyl stickered 'wood'. You've only given Genesis 15 years, and in a much more crowded market that costs MUCH more to bring a new model to that market.

Besides, Bentley & Rolls both build a FAR nicer, higher quality, more luxurious auto than Mercedes ever has or will. I guess that makes them (take your pick) "the best".

Edited May 12, 2020 by balthazar

[surreal1272]

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

"Mercedes built the best car, that is why they took over the luxury market."

It took MB like 50 years to 'take over'; 50 years and a huge downmarket push for volume. They also did it with plastic door handles, rubber bumpers and vinyl stickered 'wood'. You've only given Genesis 15 years, and in a much more crowded market that costs MUCH more to bring a new model to that market.

Besides, Bentley & Rolls both build a FAR nicer, higher quality, more luxurious auto than Mercedes ever has or will. I guess that makes them (take your pick) "the best".

EXACTLY! He just 100% proved my point! It took Benz decades to make any kind of impression, sales wise, in this country but somehow companies like Lexus and now Genesis should have made immediate impacts despite the fact that the market is FAR more competitive now than it was when Mercedes first started selling in this country.

[smk4565]

Took Mercedes decades to build volume in the US, but they were a premier luxury  car in Europe since the 1900s.  
 

Genesis is new every where and yes it takes a long time to build a brand.  But to build a brand and come into a crowded market you need a product that can steal sales.  Even if Infiniti folds with a recession that market share will get divided up.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Took Mercedes decades to build volume in the US, but they were a premier luxury  car in Europe since the 1900s.  
 

Genesis is new every where and yes it takes a long time to build a brand.  But to build a brand and come into a crowded market you need a product that can steal sales.  Even if Infiniti folds with a recession that market share will get divided up.

All I heard were excuses for Benz while none are offered for Genesis even though, historically speaking, Genesis is off to a better start. That's a far better feat than Benz to when they didn't have fifty plus years of sales in their homeland to spearhead their sales elsewhere. 

 

What sales did Benz steal their first ten years in the U.S.?

 

Hell, what are planning on stealing now? I ask that because below are spy shots of the upcoming Mercedes G80 (current gen. G80). I mean S Class. Sorry. That front end confused me a little bit.

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Took Mercedes decades to build volume in the US, but they were a premier luxury  car in Europe since the 1900s.  
 

Genesis is new every where and yes it takes a long time to build a brand.  But to build a brand and come into a crowded market you need a product that can steal sales.  Even if Infiniti folds with a recession that market share will get divided up.

• MB was decimated in europe by Bentley & Rolls' product; then 'old world' luxury was in in Europe. Euro heads spun whenever they had the chance to sample an American luxury car then. An S in 1960 is a utilitarian, pedestrian vehicle with NO luxury touches/amenities to it. No comparison.

• If WHEN a recession gets rolling, ALL luxury brands will see a decline of sales, including daimler. It's not going to 'get divided', it's going to erode.

>>"to build a brand and come into a crowded market you need a product that can steal sales."<<
That's precisely why mercedes benchmarked Cadillac, Lincoln & Imperial so furiously hard in the U.S.. Their existing product couldn't steal anything. Took them decades & decades to get the formula right.

Edited May 12, 2020 by balthazar

[ocnblu]

Interior of new S-Class is SOOOOO "not luxury".  It is modern yet barren, like a Tesla.  I guess, like tailfins, Mercedes-Benz has copied questionable ideas from others for many decades.  The exterior?  Same ol', same ol'.

[G. David Felt]

44 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

So Tesla Sparse blah interior is the new ubber luxury standard of the world? ?

My 2006 Platinum Escalade ESV is more luxurious than this! 

[smk4565]

Dearly beloved, we are gathered here to day to remember those lost in their battle with the E-class and 5-series....

R.I.P.

1996

1997

2006

2006

2008

2011

2012

2012

2016

2016

2018

2019

2019

2020

 

All of them entered the mid-price luxury segment and all of them are gone.  What makes the G80 any different from them?

23 minutes ago, dfelt said:

So Tesla Sparse blah interior is the new ubber luxury standard of the world? ?

My 2006 Platinum Escalade ESV is more luxurious than this! 

It looks plain, but I'd like to see the actual real version.  But I think this minimalist styling with lots of screens is going to be the way of the future.  And whatever the S-class does, the others will chase, the 2030 G80 interior will look like that.

[oldshurst442]

6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Dearly beloved, we are gathered here to day

 I got this far into your post...when I thought about ONLY one thing. 

 

LETS GO CRAZY!!! LETS GET NUTS!!!

[ocnblu]

I like wet nuts on a hot fudge sundae.

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Dearly beloved, we are gathered here to day to remember those lost in their battle with the E-class and 5-series....

R.I.P.

1996

1997

2006

2006

2008

2011

2012

2012

2016

2016

2018

2019

2019

2020

 

All of them entered the mid-price luxury segment and all of them are gone.  What makes the G80 any different from them?

All of them died for the same reason: too many people want their luxury CUV/SUV.  SAD?

[balthazar]

^ Please try not to quote a 20-pic post that's only a few posts above it.
- - - - -

I think this minimalist styling with lots of screens is going to be the way of the future.

So in other words- a copy of Tesla.

Rear end shot looks like a 15-yr old camry. This is clearly some of the up-coming massive cost-cutting daimler was talking about.

[surreal1272]

@smk4565—So now that a Mercedes, and a flagship Mercedes at that, looks like a Tesla on the inside and a dated Genesis on the outside, it’s okay and you’ll wait to see it in person? Funny how other cars, from other makes, don’t get the same leeway. Certainly you’ve never sat in a unreleased G80 yet seem to have plenty of negative judgement for it. 
 

Oh and in regards to your twenty pic deflection post, so what? Btw, the CTS became the CT5 so Cadillac hasn’t left the scene. 
 

Again, F Mercedes. 

[smk4565]

Tesla is pulling the industry in an EV/autonomous drive/minimalist interior direction.  The S-class will be far more luxurious than anything Tesla makes.  And we haven't seen the final S-class interior, but what they seem to be doing it getting rid of plastic buttons which often look cheap in favor of a big screen.

[surreal1272]

14 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla is pulling the industry in an EV/autonomous drive/minimalist interior direction.  The S-class will be far more luxurious than anything Tesla makes.  And we haven't seen the final S-class interior, but what they seem to be doing it getting rid of plastic buttons which often look cheap in favor of a big screen.

Thanks for proving my point. 
 

Mercedes: The best or just copy someone else because their fans will just make excuses for it anyway or nothing. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

3 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

@smk4565—So now that a Mercedes, and a flagship Mercedes at that, looks like a Tesla on the inside and a dated Genesis on the outside, it’s okay and you’ll wait to see it in person? Funny how other cars, from other makes, don’t get the same leeway. Certainly you’ve never sat in a unreleased G80 yet seem to have plenty of negative judgement for it. 
 

Oh and in regards to your twenty pic deflection post, so what? Btw, the CTS became the CT5 so Cadillac hasn’t left the scene. 
 

Again, F Mercedes. 

I said I think the Genesis looks nice, they've shown the production car interior.  I'd still like to sit in it to see it first hand.  We don't have a full reveal of the S-class, so we can't judge it yet, and I said the same thing when the Escalade leaked out, I want to see the actual reveal.

 The G80 is a nice car, I think it is their nicest vehicle inside and out,  but it is going to be a sales struggle because 20 cars came before them and failed, and Genesis isn't doing anything those guys didn't already do. 

CTS is gone.  CT5 is also a C-class competitor.   We can throw CT6 on that list too though.  The G80's starting price is $5k lower than the CT6, and it is a smaller car.  Is the G80 all that much better than a CT6?  Especially when Cadillac has a 100 year old name brand and built in loyal buyers and a dealer network.  

[surreal1272]

17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I said I think the Genesis looks nice, they've shown the production car interior.  I'd still like to sit in it to see it first hand.  We don't have a full reveal of the S-class, so we can't judge it yet, and I said the same thing when the Escalade leaked out, I want to see the actual reveal.

 The G80 is a nice car, I think it is their nicest vehicle inside and out,  but it is going to be a sales struggle because 20 cars came before them and failed, and Genesis isn't doing anything those guys didn't already do. 

CTS is gone.  CT5 is also a C-class competitor.   We can throw CT6 on that list too though.  The G80's starting price is $5k lower than the CT6, and it is a smaller car.  Is the G80 all that much better than a CT6?  Especially when Cadillac has a 100 year old name brand and built in loyal buyers and a dealer network.  

And yet again, applying rules that you don’t apply to everyone else (especially that last sentence). 
 

Why are all one brand fans the same?

 

Thats a rhetorical question btw. 

[smk4565]

Same rules apply to everyone.  If you are going into a  new segment as a challenger you better wow it.  This is why the Toyota Tundra is a sales dud and the Detroit 3 trucks smash it.  Tundra is dated, bland, no wow factor, no clear advantage over what is already there.  Which is inexcusable with Toyota's resources.  

Even more so if you are launching a new vehicle into a shrinking segment.  You have more room for error if you are going into a booming segment .

[USA-1]

On 4/6/2020 at 11:08 AM, ykX said:

2020 CT6 has 8 in infotainment screen, BMW 7-series has 10 in screen.

The 2020 Cadillac CT6 has a 10.2" infotainment touchscreen display in all trim levels and a 12" gauge cluster HD display in higher end trims. I've driven one, they're plenty big enough. Many like myself don't want the huge Tesla'esque finger print and dust magnet touchscreen panel.

https://www.cadillac.com/search-inventory/ct6/details?x-symbolic=vdp&x-carline=ct6&x-modelyear=2020&q-sourcepath=/vdc-collections/2020/sedans/ct6/ct6/jcr:content/vdcVehicleInfoBlockConfig/vdcShoppingLinks#?radius=2000&models=CT6&years=2020&customertype=GC&makes=Cadillac&filterconfigkey=Cadillac-2020-CT6&requestedPostalcode=85351&postalcode=85351&vin=1G6KV5RJ2LU105934&filtermatched=exactmatch&primarydealerdistance=3.5&bac=279625&pagenumber=1&dealerSearchBy=bac&primarydealerid=279625&primarydealerpostalcode=85308&[email protected]&primarydealername=ARROWHEAD CADILLAC&primarydealerphone=6026353160

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by USA-1

[USA-1]

8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Same rules apply to everyone.  If you are going into a  new segment as a challenger you better wow it.  This is why the Toyota Tundra is a sales dud and the Detroit 3 trucks smash it.  Tundra is dated, bland, no wow factor, no clear advantage over what is already there.  Which is inexcusable with Toyota's resources.  

Even more so if you are launching a new vehicle into a shrinking segment.  You have more room for error if you are going into a booming segment .

Toyota has also been phoning it in with their "class leading" Tacoma pickup for over a decade. No excuse for it. Just being lazy, but sheeple still buy them so I'm sure TMC execs say, "why blow R&D cash"? Resting on their laurels since 1990.  

[ocnblu]

6 hours ago, USA-1 said:

Resting on their laurels

1968 Nissan Laurel, resting:

 

[surreal1272]

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Same rules apply to everyone.  If you are going into a  new segment as a challenger you better wow it.  This is why the Toyota Tundra is a sales dud and the Detroit 3 trucks smash it.  Tundra is dated, bland, no wow factor, no clear advantage over what is already there.  Which is inexcusable with Toyota's resources.  

Even more so if you are launching a new vehicle into a shrinking segment.  You have more room for error if you are going into a booming segment .

No it doesn’t and no you haven’t. You were shown hard proof of Mercedes decades long struggle and basically dismissed it because of where they are at now.

 

(Looks at Mercedes half baked van offering now this horrid excuse for an S Slass and thinks SMK should reconsider his statement regarding the competition.)

Edited May 13, 2020 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

No it doesn’t and no you haven’t. You were shown hard proof of Mercedes decades long struggle and basically dismissed it because of where they are at now.

 

(Looks at Mercedes half baked van offering now this horrid excuse for an S Slass and thinks SMK should reconsider his statement regarding the competition.)

Mercedes built the first super car in the 1954 300SL, the best car in the world in the 1960s with the 600.  And Benz invented the car and Dialmer/Benz were around over 50 years before ever coming to the US.  

 

Genesis doesn’t have 50 years as Asia’s premier car brand that is just coming to the US for the first time.  These guys are starting from scratch like Lexus or Acura did.  Out of the gate Lexus had more success than Genesis had.  Lexus made an image, Genesis hasn’t, they don’t know what they want to be.

[G. David Felt]

46 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes built the first super car in the 1954 300SL, the best car in the world in the 1960s with the 600.  And Benz invented the car and Dialmer/Benz were around over 50 years before ever coming to the US.  

 

Genesis doesn’t have 50 years as Asia’s premier car brand that is just coming to the US for the first time.  These guys are starting from scratch like Lexus or Acura did.  Out of the gate Lexus had more success than Genesis had.  Lexus made an image, Genesis hasn’t, they don’t know what they want to be.

I doubt MB built the first super car, the 1954 300SL was a cool car but not the first super car.

Best car in the world in the 1960's being the 600 is again YOUR THOUGHT. Plenty of other superior auto's were built before then. 

Where are the links to back up your Fake Claims? Where are the professional statements that say there are the best, the first supercar, etc.? 

What do you call all those that built and raced auto's that were faster and better than the 300SL before it was created? Just lemmings as it is not a MB auto?

Today, you DO NOT need 50 years to build a luxury brand when with computers, one can buy the competition models, tear them apart just like a couple companies do with Tesla and build and sell reports to the competition to build superior auto's.

Genesis G80 will be superior to much of MB product line and people with an open mind and not hung up on a badge will sit in them and realize the value and quality and buy them over the Leasing monsters of Germany.

You want respect @smk4565 then post your statements with clear facts and links to back them up by reputable sources of researched news.

Stop being a lemming with Koolaid fake statements.

[riviera74]

About the badge snobbery thing: there is no guarantee that anyone younger than 30 is going to want the same cars Boomers wanted, whether it was the 1980s or the 2010s.  Therefore, there is no long-term guarantee that MB will be the standard by which all other luxury makes are measured.  In ten years, Lexus may well become #1 and Genesis #2, with Cadillac, Lincoln and the Germans pulling up the rear.  We just don't know.  In 1980, nobody would have thought that MB/BMW/Audi would compete against Cadillac and Lincoln.  In 1990, nobody thought the Japanese had a prayer against MB/BMW.  How times have changed because of hard work and perseverance.