GM News: GM's Upcoming Electric Onslaught

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Really what is important here is can GM beat the Tesla Model 3 or whatever Electric RAV4 or CRV come out.  That is the meat of the market, are these Chevy EV’s going to heat Toyota or Tesla who have strong reputation and buyer loyalty.

This is the real issue for GM.  Toyota did not have the 70s and 80s and 90s be a total cluster***k like GM did.  Tesla never went through BK like GM did.  GM needs to convince everyone born after 1980  that they have the best vehicles (especially EVs) bar none.  Now there will be a struggle (CR dislikes most things GM going back about 50 years or so), but it must be done where it matters:  The Equinox EV and its smaller and larger brethren must be better than Toyota and Tesla (and a better value!), otherwise GM is woefully screwed for the next generation or two.

[G. David Felt]

5 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

This is the real issue for GM.  Toyota did not have the 70s and 80s and 90s be a total cluster***k like GM did.  Tesla never went through BK like GM did.  GM needs to convince everyone born after 1980  that they have the best vehicles (especially EVs) bar none.  Now there will be a struggle (CR dislikes most things GM going back about 50 years or so), but it must be done where it matters:  The Equinox EV and its smaller and larger brethren must be better than Toyota and Tesla (and a better value!), otherwise GM is woefully screwed for the next generation or two.

I hope GM is paying attention to VW who is going to charge their id3 EV lower than a comparable Golf. The price is supposed to be equal to the GOLF Lite but be feature rich like the normal Golf. This will help VW gain market share and happy customers as they sell a decent EV at a lower price.

GM needs to sell a equal EV to the Equinox LT but at an L price. That way you gain fans of the auto, feature rich EV at a value price.

[riviera74]

Just now, dfelt said:

I hope GM is paying attention to VW who is going to charge their id3 EV lower than a comparable Golf. The price is supposed to be equal to the GOLF Lite but be feature rich like the normal Golf. This will help VW gain market share and happy customers as they sell a decent EV at a lower price.

GM needs to sell a equal EV to the Equinox LT but at an L price. That way you gain fans of the auto, feature rich EV at a value price.

Close: GM should sell an Equinox EV Premier at a price close to the LT (or better still an LS trim level).

[ocnblu]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/general-motors-shrinks-holden-big-pic-may-20/

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/general-motors-shrinks-holden-big-pic-may-20/

YAWN, just stating some obvious facts with nothing of substance to discuss or cover why the changes and why it could not make a profit. Fair points are brought up in this story and yet why post it here rather than the Random Thread where it is probably more inline with random discussion. 

They briefly mention GM was developing EVs before Musk was born, but the focus of the story was on their down sizing.

Fair question to ask is can Mary as she makes GM a very profitable company turn it around and into a growth company with their upcoming EV platform auto's? That would then be fair game for here to discuss.

I honestly think Mary is looking at the long game of changing GM from a Global ICE company to a Global EV company and has sold off the parts that would drag the company down as they move to re-invent themselves.

Thank you for posting Blu, appreciate the read.

[balthazar]

6 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The C8 Stingray is slower around the Nurburgring than an AMG GT 4-door which is like a 4600 lb sedan.

The time for the 2018 MBAMGGTS63 was 7.25.41. It has 630 HP - it's the very top powertrain in the model line.
The time for the 2020 Corvette (base) was 7.29.90. It has 495 HP - it's the very bottom powertrain in the model line.

For contrast, the C7 Z06 did the 'Ring in 7.13.90.
 

[ocnblu]

20 minutes ago, dfelt said:

why post it here

Uh this is a GM thread and it is pertinent to the conversation.  Some have called this EV boondoggle a "HAIL MARY" in an attempt to regain lost relevance.

Idiom: “To throw a Hail Mary” ... A Hail Mary pass or Hail Mary route in American football refers to any very long forward pass made in desperation with only a small chance of success, especially at or near the end of a half.

[Robert Hall]

17 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Uh this is a GM thread and it is pertinent to the conversation.  Some have called this EV boondoggle a "HAIL MARY" in an attempt to regain lost relevance.

Idiom: “To throw a Hail Mary” ... A Hail Mary pass or Hail Mary route in American football refers to any very long forward pass made in desperation with only a small chance of success, especially at or near the end of a half.

It kind of is.  GM has withdrawn from many markets, cut most of their sedan models and continues to lose market share.  Other than NA trucks and full size SUVs, they have no market leadership or dominant products.  It’s time to go big for the future or go home.  

Edited March 14, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

Actually, GM's market share seems to have stabilized- it was 17% in '16 and '19.

[ocnblu]

Makes me sick to my stomach how many great things have passed into history.  And Barra's version of the future is, in a word, gloomy.

[riviera74]

56 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Makes me sick to my stomach how many great things have passed into history.  And Barra's version of the future is, in a word, gloomy.

And if you were in her position, what would you do differently?

[G. David Felt]

6 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I said a Chevy sedan.  I know what a C8 costs and I also said for years there should be a sports car above the Corvette.  The C8 Stingray is slower around the Nurburgring than an AMG GT 4-door which is like a 4600 lb sedan.  You can’t put elite performance in a car for $60-100k.  Nor should a Corvette cost more than that, this the reason GM should build something better than a Corvette.

  It is okay for the Corvette to be the best sports car on market in the $60-100k range and then there be something else.  I don’t get the reason why GM fans don’t want GM to build a sports car better than the Corvette.

My point on Cadillac is in the past they have not delivered, I don’t know why this time around would be any different.

AND YOU MISS THE POINT WITH APPLES TO ORANGE COMPARISON

Good Grief Charley Brown! ?

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

The time for the 2018 MBAMGGTS63 was 7.25.41. It has 630 HP - it's the very top powertrain in the model line.
The time for the 2020 Corvette (base) was 7.29.90. It has 495 HP - it's the very bottom powertrain in the model line.

For contrast, the C7 Z06 did the 'Ring in 7.13.90.
 

But the AMG GT63 S is a 4,750 lb sedan.   Do we think Cadillac is going to make a full size luxury sedan faster around a track than a C8?  That I would actually love GM tell the engineers to do.  AMG has a GT73 in the works, they already teased the testing of it running on electric power.

By comparison, a GT R coupe can do the Nurburgring in 7:04, Porsche 911 GT2 RS does it in 6:47.  It is going to be hard to take 45 seconds off lap time off a C8 to beat the 911. 

And again I don't think a Corvette should be attempting to go for elite performance, GM needs another sports car (a Cadillac) that is faster than the Corvette.

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Makes me sick to my stomach how many great things have passed into history.  And Barra's version of the future is, in a word, gloomy.

If they can make an Equinox sized EV for $30-35k that performs the same as an Equinox (which should be easy since it only has 185 hp or so), then it won't be so gloomy.   If they can put affordable EV's out there that are good, Mary will save the company.  If they make an Equinox EV (for lack of a better name) and it is $50k, then it is gloomy.

[balthazar]

26 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But the AMG GT63 S is a 4,750 lb sedan.

wiki says the MBAMGGTS63 is 4340-4500 lbs. But I agree : mercedees are all too fat.

Of course- Nurburgring is 'water cooler talk' - akin to fantasy football.
But I'd certainly wait to see what the higher-up C8s bring if it's important to you. You don't seriously think the Corvette team is done at 495 HP, do you??

Edited March 14, 2020 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

But the AMG GT63 S is a 4,750 lb sedan.   Do we think Cadillac is going to make a full size luxury sedan faster around a track than a C8?  That I would actually love GM tell the engineers to do.  AMG has a GT73 in the works, they already teased the testing of it running on electric power.

By comparison, a GT R coupe can do the Nurburgring in 7:04, Porsche 911 GT2 RS does it in 6:47.  It is going to be hard to take 45 seconds off lap time off a C8 to beat the 911. 

And again I don't think a Corvette should be attempting to go for elite performance, GM needs another sports car (a Cadillac) that is faster than the Corvette.

The Corvette was ALWAYS about performance...

The Corvette ALWAYS spanked Porsche and Ferrari and then Porsche and Ferrari came back with models to counter the Vette and so forth and so forth...

The Z-51  package is the most BASIC track package on a Corvette.  Its the LOW LEVEL trim track package of Corvettes.

Z51 is what you start off with. Then Chevy introduces the  Z06 which is THE track package that REALLY sets records. Then there is the top Vette that gets more power and  slightly better traction to cope with that power as compared to the Z06 making the top top Corvette the ULTIMATE in top speed, quickness and track. 

45 seconds on the new mid engined C8 Z06 that will get better aero and down force and more power will be nothing for Corvette engineers to accomplish.

Actually, when they were testing the BASE Stingray, they BENCHMARKED the 911 for track duty. 

And you know this...

YOU have seen the pictures.

What 911 is that anyway?

Is that a special track oriented 911 I see in that pic testing along with that camo C8 before it was even revealed to the world that that is the new mid-engined Corvette? 

And...it does NOT stop there...

As YOU know...the Corvette actually does go...racing...

It had a solid start at Daytona

Is that another Porsche behind the C8 racing there? 

Wow...Im shocked!  (sarcasm)

Edited March 14, 2020 by oldshurst442

[ocnblu]

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

If they can make an Equinox sized EV for $30-35k that performs the same as an Equinox (which should be easy since it only has 185 hp or so), then it won't be so gloomy.   If they can put affordable EV's out there that are good, Mary will save the company.  If they make an Equinox EV (for lack of a better name) and it is $50k, then it is gloomy.

Uh you are missing the point that there is no strength in EV sales in the USA.  Side by side on the lot at price parity and the gas version will sell, the EV will rot.

[balthazar]

IMO, if on Monday morning there was an EV version of every model of IC vehicle, within -say- 7% of MSRP, that in 5 years it might hit 15% of the market. Maybe. But I believe it would level off around there for at least the next 15. What OEMs are thinking by declaring they're going 100% EV in 4 years is beyond me- it shows a distinct lack of market awareness.

[smk4565]

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

wiki says the MBAMGGTS63 is 4340-4500 lbs. But I agree : mercedees are all too fat.

Of course- Nurburgring is 'water cooler talk' - akin to fantasy football.
But I'd certainly wait to see what the higher-up C8s bring if it's important to you. You don't seriously think the Corvette team is done at 495 HP, do you??

It isn’t just a function of horsepower it is brakes and suspension, it is around 170 corners to get through.  I know the Corvette isn’t done.  But the C8 and AMG GT63 have the same 0-60 time and the faster car on a track is maybe 1,000 lbs heavier.

I know they’ll have a 700 or 800 hp Corvette, that is a given.  And they’ll actually have traction this time that the C7 never had.  But OldsHurst makes it seem so easy that Cadillac engineers can build a great performing car, I don’t see how Cadillac takes something like a CT6 big sedan and makes it go around a track faster than a C8.

[smk4565]

12 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

The Corvette was ALWAYS about performance...

The Corvette ALWAYS spanked Porsche and Ferrari and then Porsche and Ferrari came back with models to counter the Vette and so forth and so forth...

The Z-51  package is the most BASIC track package on a Corvette.  Its the LOW LEVEL trim track package of Corvettes.

Z51 is what you start off with. Then Chevy introduces the  Z06 which is THE track package that REALLY sets records. Then there is the top Vette that gets more power and  slightly better traction to cope with that power as compared to the Z06 making the top top Corvette the ULTIMATE in top speed, quickness and track. 

45 seconds on the new mid engined C8 Z06 that will get better aero and down force and more power will be nothing for Corvette engineers to accomplish.

Actually, when they were testing the BASE Stingray, they BENCHMARKED the 911 for track duty. 

And you know this...

YOU have seen the pictures.

What 911 is that anyway?

Is that a special track oriented 911 I see in that pic testing along with that camo C8 before it was even revealed to the world that that is the new mid-engined Corvette? 

And...it does NOT stop there...

As YOU know...the Corvette actually does go...racing...

It had a solid start at Daytona

Is that another Porsche behind the C8 racing there? 

Wow...Im shocked!  (sarcasm)

Let me know when the C8 posts a 6:45 on the Nurburgring.  The fast cars on sale now are in the 6:40’s.  If the Corvette is going for the elites that is where it needs to be.

I would argue that the Corvette should be about value performance like a Porsche 718.  You can make a great sports car that is fun to drive and usable as a daily car.  Most of these track beasts are not that usable as a daily driver.

9 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Uh you are missing the point that there is no strength in EV sales in the USA.  Side by side on the lot at price parity and the gas version will sell, the EV will rot.

The Tesla model 3 outsells the Malibu.  There is strength in good EV’s.  If GM makes good EV’s and beats Toyota to it they have a chance.  If they make Bolts or let Toyota and VW get a lead they are screwed.  And GM sells more in China than in the USA.  That is why they need this, VW is #1 in China and has like 80 EV models coming.

[balthazar]

Internet sez MBAMGGTS63QRXT does 0-60 in 3.1 sec, also says C8 Corvette does it in 2.8.
 

58 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It isn’t just a function of horsepower it is brakes and suspension, it is around 170 corners to get through.  I know the Corvette isn’t done.  But the C8 and AMG GT63 have the same 0-60 time and the faster car on a track is maybe 1,000 lbs heavier.

0-60 in 2.8 seconds covers what- 100 feet? 125 feet? (don't know offhand).
Nurburgring is 13 MILES long and the MBAMGGTS63QRXT has nearly 150 more HP (yet only was 4 seconds quicker... over 13 MILES).

Unplug & think.
- - - - -
As to the C8 : the 755-HP C7 ZR1 did 0-60 in 3.0 sec, and the C8 with 495-HP does it in 2.8. Expect collossal performance gains once a C8 ZR1 appears.
- - - - -
MBAMGGTS63ZR2 does 60-0 in 105 ft, C8 does it in 97. So the MB does NOT have better braking (Or it may, but it weighs as much as a full-size pickup, so they're overpowered.)

Edited March 14, 2020 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

This is one of the best reads about GM's new Modular EV system and NO it is NOT a Skateboard concept. They say that is actually limiting and as such have created BEV3 as a Modular system that has a high speed over air update capable electrical system with motors front and back and a battery pack that will allow Unibody cars and CUVs and still also work in a Body on Frame design for the full size Trucks / SUVs.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1127366_evolution-11-keys-to-gm-s-electrified-future

GM has developed their own EV motor Family. Two motors are permanent magnet motors and one is induction. This allows for a coverage of a base motor with 235 hp to a total of 1000 hp in a 3 motor design. GM has the 70kw induction motor, 180 kw permanent magnet motor and the 255 kw PM motor. Depending on battery configuration, these motors can have the stated maximum power or less.

The Hummer by GMC truck and SUV will use 3 of the 255 kw PM motors to achieve the 1000HP and 11,000 plus lb-ft of torque.

[ocnblu]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Tesla model 3 outsells the Malibu.  

The only thing that tells me is how bad the Malibu is, not how "good" the Tesla is.  Most Malibus have a 1.5t 4 cylinder that burns pistons.  You'd think GM were amateurs with that kind of problem.  But no, it is a company that has built hundreds of millions of engines. 

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, balthazar said:

Internet sez MBAMGGTS63QRXT does 0-60 in 3.1 sec, also says C8 Corvette does it in 2.8.
 

0-60 in 2.8 seconds covers what- 100 feet? 125 feet? (don't know offhand).
Nurburgring is 13 MILES long and the MBAMGGTS63QRXT has nearly 150 more HP (yet only was 4 seconds quicker... over 13 MILES).

Unplug & think.
- - - - -
As to the C8 : the 755-HP C7 ZR1 did 0-60 in 3.0 sec, and the C8 with 495-HP does it in 2.8. Expect collossal performance gains once a C8 ZR1 appears.
- - - - -
MBAMGGTS63ZR2 does 60-0 in 105 ft, C8 does it in 97. So the MB does NOT have better braking (Or it may, but it weighs as much as a full-size pickup, so they're overpowered.)

So why is the C8 slower around a track if it can accelerate faster and stop faster?  And the AMG GT is heavier?  

They can throw another 200 or 300 hp in the C8, I don't think it is getting to Ferrari or Huracan or 911 GT2 times on a track. 

And the reason I brought up the AMG sedan is because how is Cadillac going to make a sedan faster than a Corvette C8.  If GM's best engineering effort was the Vette, how do they get a sedan without mid-engine and with another 1,000 lbs of car, speakers, leather, power rear seats, power trunk, etc to go that fast?

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

The only thing that tells me is how bad the Malibu is, not how "good" the Tesla is.  Most Malibus have a 1.5t 4 cylinder that burns pistons.  You'd think GM were amateurs with that kind of problem.  But no, it is a company that has built hundreds of millions of engines. 

So the people that can't make a Malibu are going to make a more high tech pure EV with over the air updates and self driving tech?  EV's will be their moon shot, they have to get that right.  As is the case with many auto makers.

[ocnblu]

17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

So the people that can't make a Malibu are going to make a more high tech pure EV with over the air updates and self driving tech?  EV's will be their moon shot, they have to get that right.  As is the case with many auto makers

I think EVs are simpler.

[balthazar]

21 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

So why is the C8 slower around a track if it can accelerate faster and stop faster?  And the AMG GT is heavier? 

I answered that multiple times already.
The MB makes up time on the straights for being heavier/slower in the corners.
And I repeat : a mere 4 seconds over 13 miles. You really think that's an opportunity to brag?
I mean- why is it so much slower than the old C7 ZR1??
 

Quote

They can throw another 200 or 300 hp in the C8, I don't think it is getting to Ferrari or Huracan or 911 GT2 times on a track.

Of course you don't, but why not? When it was FE, the C7 was only 21 secs behind the huracan after 13 miles. Huge in a racing event, but the Lambo has 602 HP, not 495. Drop the Lambo to 495 HP and see the lap time balloon.
 

Quote

And the reason I brought up the AMG sedan is because how is Cadillac going to make a sedan faster than a Corvette C8. If GM's best engineering effort was the Vette, how do they get a sedan without mid-engine and with another 1,000 lbs of car, speakers, leather, power rear seats, power trunk, etc to go that fast?

You always looks at these weird, non-scenarios in a twisted manner. A car's platform & powertrain do not care how many doors it has. Look to your favored AMGGTGTGTGT- how does DaimlerMBbenZ do it? Horsepower, mostly. Pile it on and go faster. Corvette is at 495, has already brought 755, the rumor mill says 900 for the C8.
900 and ME is going to drop it below 7.00 secs. Then what??
 

Edited March 14, 2020 by balthazar

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

I answered that multiple times already.
The MB makes up time on the straights for being heavier/slower in the corners.
And I repeat : a mere 4 seconds over 13 miles. You really think that's an opportunity to brag?
I mean- why is it so much slower than the old C7 ZR1??
 

Of course you don't, but why not? When it was FE, the C7 was only 21 secs behind the huracan after 13 miles. Huge in a racing event, but the Lambo has 602 HP, not 495. Drop the Lambo to 495 HP and see the lap time balloon.
 

You always looks at these weird, non-scenarios in a twisted manner. A car's platform & powertrain do not care how many doors it has. Look to your favored AMGGTGTGTGT- how does DaimlerMBbenZ do it? Horsepower, mostly. Pile it on and go faster. Corvette is at 495, has already brought 755, the rumor mill says 900 for the C8.
900 and ME is going to drop it below 7.00 secs. Then what??
 

But a 577 hp AMG GT Coupe is faster around the Nurburgring than a 750 hp Corvette ZR1 (C7).  Shouldn't the same theory apply that with an extra 173 hp the Corvette should be faster on those straights?   And that is apples to apples since both are front engine V8, rear drive coupes.  

And this is because the Corvette looks good on a spec sheet with a lot of horsepower per dollar and a good 0-60 time, so Corvette fans think it competes with a 911 or Huracan or Ferrari but the Vette doesn't have the chassis/suspension/grip/aero/brakes, etc that those top end cars do.

They can put as much power in the C8 as they want, they need to the chassis and grip to use it.  I still think they need a car above Corvette to put serious money in it to charge that high price that you can't do with a Chevy.

AMG One is going to shatter all the records anyway, so maybe none of it matters.  They are going under 6 minutes around the Ring and it s game over for years if not decades.

[balthazar]

Base car does 60-0 in 97 feet- that's much better than the AMGGTTTGSG (100-105'). Huracan does 104'.
Motor Trend tested the '14 Stingray doing 60-0 in 90 feet.

C7 Z06 does 1.19 lateral G- that's second only to the Porsche GT3 and better than the lambo AND DaimlerGGGT3.  The Camaro beats those 2.
 LalaFerrari does 1.16. Porsche GT3 does 1.12.

You can sit there with your arms crossed and your lower lip out, frowning & grumbling that 'the Corvette ain't no supercar', all day long, but you're still wrong.  They HAVE the chassis, they HAVE the brakes, they HAVE the suspension, and they've only shown you the lowest spec versions of the C8 so far.  And higher performance variants are coming which will improve upon these class leading numbers even more so.

[G. David Felt]

52 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But a 577 hp AMG GT Coupe is faster around the Nurburgring than a 750 hp Corvette ZR1 (C7).  Shouldn't the same theory apply that with an extra 173 hp the Corvette should be faster on those straights?   And that is apples to apples since both are front engine V8, rear drive coupes.  

And this is because the Corvette looks good on a spec sheet with a lot of horsepower per dollar and a good 0-60 time, so Corvette fans think it competes with a 911 or Huracan or Ferrari but the Vette doesn't have the chassis/suspension/grip/aero/brakes, etc that those top end cars do.

They can put as much power in the C8 as they want, they need to the chassis and grip to use it.  I still think they need a car above Corvette to put serious money in it to charge that high price that you can't do with a Chevy.

AMG One is going to shatter all the records anyway, so maybe none of it matters.  They are going under 6 minutes around the Ring and it s game over for years if not decades.

No wonder you jump all over the place in comparing 3 door to 2 door and weight, You pretty much are just regurgitating what Motortrend is also saying about the 4 door amg gt coupe.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/mercedes-amg-gt-4-door-coupe-nurburgring-lap-record/

According to them this car can take the crown from the Corvette ZR1 2009 model that set the speed record then.

It is the fastest 4 seater 4 door coupe car today, but we have not seen the top of the line C8 corvette which will leapfrog this car no problem I am thinking based on the history of the top of the line Corvettes that have beaten the MB auto's. Then the Germans will come back. Always a back n forth between auto companies. No one ever stays the winner winner chicken dinner for ever.

 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

No wonder you jump all over the place in comparing 3 door to 2 door and weight, You pretty much are just regurgitating what Motortrend is also saying about the 4 door amg gt coupe.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/mercedes-amg-gt-4-door-coupe-nurburgring-lap-record/

According to them this car can take the crown from the Corvette ZR1 2009 model that set the speed record then.

It is the fastest 4 seater 4 door coupe car today, but we have not seen the top of the line C8 corvette which will leapfrog this car no problem I am thinking based on the history of the top of the line Corvettes that have beaten the MB auto's. Then the Germans will come back. Always a back n forth between auto companies. No one ever stays the winner winner chicken dinner for ever.

 

Never read that article but it is very true.   The only 4 seater that is going to beat the GT63 is the GT73 when it comes out.  

I would hope a top end C8 being a 2 seat, mid-engine car can beat a 199 inch long 4 seat sedan on a track.  But AMG has the One to rule them all.  When the C8 breaks the 7 minute barrier we can start to talk, but there are cars in the 6:40's now, they have a long way to go.

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

AMG has the One to rule them all.

Its never gonna be built...

But its nice for you to have a wet dream. Keeps you young, I here. 

[ocnblu]

This is why I still love this place.  This is much more exciting than "GM's Upcoming Electric Onslaught".

Edited March 15, 2020 by ocnblu

[balthazar]

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The only 4 seater that is going to beat the GT63...

I'd like to see it's time with four 200-lb adults in it; 800 lbs over the already HEAVY curb weight. I mean- that's why those seats are there right; to take your— WAIT!! There should be a MBAMGGTS63 3+3 - a 3 row sedan, so you can add 1200 lbs of passengers to a 4800 lb sedan and then go racing! 6000 lbs around the 'Ring!

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

I'd like to see it's time with four 200-lb adults in it; 800 lbs over the already HEAVY curb weight. I mean- that's why those seats are there right; to take your— WAIT!! There should be a MBAMGGTS63 3+3 - a 3 row sedan, so you can add 1200 lbs of passengers to a 4800 lb sedan and then go racing! 6000 lbs around the 'Ring!

Well the GLS63 can do 174 mph although it bet it will barely break 8 minutes on the Nurburgring.  I’d be curious to see it’s time, the GLC63 is the current SUV record holder.

[Robert Hall]

19 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Well the GLS63 can do 174 mph although it bet it will barely break 8 minutes on the Nurburgring.  I’d be curious to see it’s time, the GLC63 is the current SUV record holder.

None of that means anything in the real world, though.  Using Nurburgring numbers with an SUV is absurd.

[smk4565]

33 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

None of that means anything in the real world, though.  Using Nurburgring numbers with an SUV is absurd.

It means they can engineer performance.  GM has no performance SUV’s.  How don’t you have a performance vehicle in the body style that is over 50% of the market and growing?

[Robert Hall]

35 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It means they can engineer performance.  GM has no performance SUV’s.  How don’t you have a performance vehicle in the body style that is over 50% of the market and growing?

GM isn't in that niche...they make volume FWD/transverse engine appliance CUVs and heavy BOF full size SUVs.

[riviera74]

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

GM isn't in that niche...they make volume FWD/transverse engine appliance CUVs and heavy BOF full size SUVs.

Maybe they should take Omega and create a performance CUV to put beside the Escalade.

[G. David Felt]

7 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Maybe they should take Omega and create a performance CUV to put beside the Escalade.

Cadillac SHOULD have V editions of EVERYTHING they Sell!

[riviera74]

12 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Cadillac SHOULD have V editions of EVERYTHING they Sell!

For the sedans, sure thing.  For the FWD crossovers, uh no.  RWD anything: YES!

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

GM isn't in that niche...they make volume FWD/transverse engine appliance CUVs and heavy BOF full size SUVs.

And Daimler makes volume FWD & RWD / traverse/longitudinal engine appliance CUVs and heavy SUVs/sports sedans.

[ocnblu]

I wonder if the 2.7t Silverado engine could be turnt sideways and stuffed into an XT4-V.

[Robert Hall]

51 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Maybe they should take Omega and create a performance CUV to put beside the Escalade.

Would be nice, but most likely they will create an XT7 off the generic Traverse, etc platform.

 

22 minutes ago, balthazar said:

And Daimler makes volume FWD & RWD / traverse/longitudinal engine appliance CUVs and heavy SUVs/sports sedans.

Their RWD based models are superior to GMs FWD generics though. 

[oldshurst442]

 

 

[Robert Hall]

An EV Vette would be cool to see down the road... will be interesting to see the kind of performance Tesla gets out of their new roadster..

20 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 But AMG has the One to rule them all.  When the C8 breaks the 7 minute barrier we can start to talk, but there are cars in the 6:40's now, they have a long way to go.

The AMG One is mythical, I would think the Tesla Roadster is more likely to happen and be faster..

Edited March 16, 2020 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

Yes, One has to wonder why MB has become so quiet about the Mythical AMG One and now with them killing power trains, killing models and one off projects, one has to wonder if this will not be killed rather than waste any more money on an auto that cannot meet emissions especially now.

I would expect MB to say this project is dead in the near future as they announce other products are at the end of production.

Update: Seems MB has moved AMG One Project from a listed auto with the rest to being only on the Concept Show car list now. All links that show up in Google and Bing to interior pages are no longer functional either.

This I would take as a sign this project is being killed.

[oldshurst442]

27 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

An EV Vette would be cool to see down the road... will be interesting to see the kind of performance Tesla gets out of their new roadster..

 

The AMG One is mythical, I would think the Tesla Roadster is more likely to happen and be faster..

I believe the next Vette we will get will be a Z06 with a flat plane crank as they say. And the next one  after that will be the one in the pics. A hybrid possibly callled the Zora with the aforementioned 900 plus horsepower. 

Elon is promising that the  Tesla Roadster  2.0 will be a monster performer of epic proportions. 

0-60 in 1.9 seconds  ||  1/4 mile in 8.8 seconds  ||  Top speed 250 MPH   ||   620 mile range.  Handling that is better than if it were on rails.   Quite the little speed demon...

 

And this is why I think...the AMG ONE will NOT be built:   Mercedes-AMG missed the window of opportunity with the AMG One

1. Too much R&D money that went nowhere because it was supposed to be launched already.  And now business is slowing for M-B

2. They need to move the additional R&D money for it to pay off the diesel scandal.

3. Emissions is the reason why it hasnt launched yet.   And the more the AMG-One sits in R&D mode, the less time M-B has to sell it as Europe's emissions laws (and other countries and continents) are getting tighter and tighter for ICE vehicles.

4. The more money they dump into it, the LESS money they will have to engineer EVs.

5. The EV technology is advancing fast as it is. EV sports cars like the Tesla Roadster 2.0 will be the NEW benchmark for sports cars.  The AMG One is fast becoming irrelevant and it aint even out yet.

6. Koenigsegg is getting ready to launch a 3 cylinder, camless, 600 plus horsepower supercar... 

Koenigsegg will be the one to benefit...

 

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by oldshurst442

[Robert Hall]

The AMG One might have been interesting 5 years ago, but now it would be just another hypercar.. Koenigseggegg is doing some really interesting things w/ ICE design. 

[G. David Felt]

Back in November 2019 Motor Trend did a story where GM hinted at a Hybrid Corvette C8 that would have 900 hp.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/c8-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-hybrid-twin-turbo-dohc-v-8-with-900-hp/

Now Motor Trend published this story March 2020 from info posted in the Corvette blogger web site about some interesting points in the fuse box of the C8 2020 manual.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-luxury/2020-chevy-corvette-c8-owners-manual-might-hint-at-hybrid-model/ar-BB10A6N0

To quote the story:

While this isn't unusual at first glance, what piqued the interest of Corvette Blogger is a set of numbers referring to specific functions of each fuse – in this case, numbers 7 and 12. Fuse number 7 is labeled as a Power Sounder Module/Pedestrian Friendly Alert Function and is also called the same thing in the Chevy Bolt. The Pedestrian Friendly Alert Function gives EV cars a sound that can be heard by pedestrians more easily. Kinda like that low hum or buzz in other EV cars that lets pedestrians know that a car is nearby (lack of combustion engine and all). Number 12 is called the Lithium-ion battery module, which is missing in the Chevy Bolt manual because the Bolt uses a rechargeable energy storage system; a totally different hybrid. If true, the C8 Corvette relies on the electric power for brief performance boosts, totally foregoing any long-range electric power. 

I would have to say that an AWD Hybrid Corvette is coming and damn that it is going to be very cool and fast!

[Robert Hall]

I don't know if it will be the Z06 or the ZR1, but I'd love to see a street C8 with the wing and bodywork of the C8R...