Review: 2020 Lexus UX 200 F-Sport

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

No, but if we do, it's great knowing how easy it is getting going again, fully replenished.

400 miles of new possibilities in five minutes. 

You must be driving one of those camo craptastic Prius with 52 mpg to get 400 miles in 5 min.

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Yeah, guess it s good thing that gas powered cars forever on a single tank of guess. Wouldn’t want to run out of gas now would we?

@ocnblu forgets he is no different than an EV needing about 8hrs to recharge every day himself.  

[ocnblu]

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

You must be driving one of those camo craptastic Prius with 52 mpg to get 400 miles in 5 min.

??? That's how long it takes me to gas up the truck.  2019 Cheverlay Collarada Z71 with a 3.6L gasoline powered V6 injun.

[ccap41]

On 2/29/2020 at 4:39 PM, balthazar said:

Except there’s zero business case for a teeny Cadillac SUV below the XT4. The 4 is in the sweet spot of the CUV segment, strong enough to pull from above & below it. 
Its nonsensical to propose duplicate SUVs separated by 4 inches in length- there’s no buyer who needs those less 4 inches, and the money is MUCH better spent making an existing entry better the 1,000 other CUVs out there.

How is there no business case for being able to charge 15k more for a Trax? 

On 3/1/2020 at 12:17 AM, balthazar said:

Once hyundai is building cars that can be cross-shopped with mercedes, you know the Apocolypse is near.

Hyundai Genesis prior to Genesis becoming its own brand... 

[balthazar]

21 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

How is there no business case for being able to charge 15k more for a Trax? 

Just reading it phrased that way not only makes me nauseous, it nearly defines the problem.

Cadillac does not have the budget room to bring to market something that ultimately will be a degrader of image for Cadillac. It would be FAR better to put that development money into the other existing lines, upgrades & packages, not a too-small me-too mini-CUV.

This is a circa 160K unit brand, not 300,000. Pick & choose your segments and hit them as hard as possible. Big picture.

[ccap41]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Just reading it phrased that way not only makes me nauseous, it nearly defines the problem.

Cadillac does not have the budget room to bring to market something that ultimately will be a degrader of image for Cadillac. It would be FAR better to put that development money into the other existing lines, upgrades & packages, not a too-small me-too mini-CUV.

This is a circa 160K unit brand, not 300,000. Pick & choose your segments and hit them as hard as possible. Big picture.

Well, they're far from hitting each segment as hard as possible so they might as well try and get into more segments. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by ccap41

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Well, they're far from hitting each segment as hard as possible so they might as well try and get into more segments. 

That is how GM ended up in BK back in 2008-10: too many cars in too many niches and the sales did NOT justify the investment.  Cadillac should improve their USP and not chase every little niche.

[ccap41]

2 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

That is how GM ended up in BK back in 2008-10: too many cars in too many niches and the sales did NOT justify the investment.  Cadillac should improve their USP and not chase every little niche.

Haven't they already done this with the XT4, XT5, and XT6? Aren't those rebadged versions of Chevy, GMC, and/or Buick? 

Oh, and Escalade. 

[smk4565]

Toyota sold 17,000 UX’s last year and 49,000 of it’s platform mate the CH-R.  And they probably sell more than that in Asia.  It is a small segment but it is growing, and Cadillac will probably only sell 17k CT4’s this year and that car actually costs some money to build, definitely costs more than a rebadged Trax would.
 

Probably the only reason there isn’t an XT3 is so that it doesn’t overlap the Buick Encore/GX.

[G. David Felt]

18 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Toyota sold 17,000 UX’s last year and 49,000 of it’s platform mate the CH-R.  And they probably sell more than that in Asia.  It is a small segment but it is growing, and Cadillac will probably only sell 17k CT4’s this year and that car actually costs some money to build, definitely costs more than a rebadged Trax would.
 

Probably the only reason there isn’t an XT3 is so that it doesn’t overlap the Buick Encore/GX.

You have just answered your own question as to why Cadillac does not have an XT3. NO NEED since Buick has this covered and Luxury buyers are not interested in such a small micro auto.

Only posers who care about a badge more than luxury comfort would buy this and while BMW and MB do not have other brands to sell, they have gone from a Luxury only to covering from cheap entry level to luxury to compete with GM Chevrolet/Buick-GMC/Cadillac.

Nothing Else needs to be said.

[ccap41]

25 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Only posers who care about a badge more than luxury comfort would buy this

Couldn't the same be said for Escalade buyers when there's a Yukon Denali? 

[G. David Felt]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

Couldn't the same be said for Escalade buyers when there's a Yukon Denali? 

Yes you could say that if you want to ignore the differences both externally and internally to the auto.

That is where the rub lays, MB has to cover all versions from Eco entry level auto to uber luxury auto and tends to try and charge a premium for a plastic coated auto at the bottom level when there are far better auto options out there.

SMK pushes an agenda ignoring why Cadillac DOES NOT need an auto like an XT3. So many here have stated with the other GM brands, you have the bottom end covered and Cadillac should focus on mid to full size luxury and not waste R&D resources on the bottom end served by Buick / GMC.

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

That is how GM ended up in BK back in 2008-10: too many cars in too many niches and the sales did NOT justify the investment.  Cadillac should improve their USP and not chase every little niche.

10,000 upvotes, my friend!

[ccap41]

25 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Yes you could say that if you want to ignore the differences both externally and internally to the auto.

That is where the rub lays, MB has to cover all versions from Eco entry level auto to uber luxury auto and tends to try and charge a premium for a plastic coated auto at the bottom level when there are far better auto options out there.

SMK pushes an agenda ignoring why Cadillac DOES NOT need an auto like an XT3. So many here have stated with the other GM brands, you have the bottom end covered and Cadillac should focus on mid to full size luxury and not waste R&D resources on the bottom end served by Buick / GMC.

But, there's just a styling difference between an Escalade and a Denali. You're paying a premium for the badge the same way one would for a GLA. 

The one distinctive thing you get in an Escalade over the Denali is SuperCruise. 

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Couldn't the same be said for Escalade buyers when there's a Yukon Denali? 

Sure...

But..as @riviera74 and @dfelt have stated.  And like you also have made a comparison with Mercedes Benz and the GLA...

Cadillac, should NOT enter Buick and Chevrolet air space.  The Yukon Denali enters Cadillac airspace and THAT is OK for Buick. Buick NEEDS cars in the upper echelon that touch Cadillac prestige to retain Buick luxury status.  Chevrolet could enter Buick airspace to attract buyers in the Chevy showrooms. Halo cars like the Corvette and high speed Camaros (ZL1s and the like) were always expensive and entered Cadillac airspace. And those cars helped sell the rest of the Chevrolet line-up of Biscaynes and Bel Airs and Chevelles which also made Chevrolet introduce a new niche. The "SS" muscle car trims of their family grocery getters. And those "SS" trims entered Pontiac and Oldsmobile airspace.  And the same thing happened over at Pontiac with their GTO and Trans Am offerings, but Pontiac also had personal luxury coupes to sell. And the same thing over at Oldsmobile and so forth and so forth...

Zoom over to 2020.  Same thing. Only that Pontiac and Oldsmobile do not exists anymore. 

Cadillac has been cheapened to sell more cars. That would be a 1980s mistake.  The dealership network has to understand that Cadillac at one time, sold cars on the merit of LUXURY, PRESTIGE and QUALITY. By down pricing and selling Cadillac, LUXURY, PRESTIGE and QUALITY also goes DOWN. THAT is the nature marketing. And its done NATURALLY. When cars being sold at the SAME price level and NICHE MARKETS as even your OWN entry level, family haulin' brands, your own pricing DICTATES what MARKET you are gonna be playing in. What airspace you are filling...  You (GM/Cadillac) is DEFINING that space...

Mercedes is lucky and unlucky at the same time as M-B for a time now, has to do all that on ONE brand.  Its a curse but a blessing.  A curse because their marketing AND engineering has to be top notch.  A blessing because if their marketing AND engineering is top notch, their luxury cars are the best, and THAT sells their lower end cars. If they sputter on one of the two, then both luxury and entry level go to hell.

Cadillac does NOT NEED that headache... 

All Cadillac needs to do is just be...CADILLAC. The rest follows ON ITS OWN.

Mercedes had to INVENT slogans like: "Engineered like no other" or 'Nothing but the best" 

Mercedes had to CONVINCE buyers that that is true. But they also had to deliver on that promise. 

Cadillac ONLY has to deliver on the goods.  Cadillac invented only ONE slogan.  "The Standard of the world"  after they won the Dewar award almost 100 years ago. After that, Cadillac ONLY played in Cadillac airspace and "engineered their cars like no other" and were truly "nothing but the best" and the PEOPLE came up with this slogan "Its the Cadillac of..."

By occupying high priced Chevrolet airspace, and low to mid-level Buick airspace...do you (CCAP) actually think that the Cadillac version will be at Cadillac levels of prestige, LUXURY and especially QUALITY?  

I personally dont think so....

The Cadillac Escalade is NOT at a Chevrolet Tahoe level or Yukon Denali level...but the Yukon Denali is at Escalade levels of luxury, prestige and quality.  But for Cadillac playing in Buick and especially Chevrolet airspace...one gets the OPPOSITE reaction towards Cadillac.

Ive said this before....

When a Cadillac ATS is sold SIDE BY SIDE, PRICE FOR PRICE, (more or less) with a Chevrolet Impala, with the Impala getting a more powerful engine than the entry level ATS and the SAME engine with a mid level ATS, with the IMPALA seemingly getting a NICER interior than the CADILLAC ATS...than its no bueno for Cadillac and its image....

But lets not fool ourselves. The Escalade truly is a Cadillac. The Chevrolet Tahoe is no where NEAR the Escalade...

BUT...the Tahoe is probably gonna be a MORE luxurious,  better quality vehicle than a possible Cadillac XT3... And THAT leads to PRESTIGE...which shoots Cadillac in the foot by trying to sell vehicles it has NO BUSINESS selling in the first place. 

Let Buick handle that niche.  If Cadillac "needs" a small CUV like a XT3, then the XT3 NEEDS to have a PRICE TAG, that BEFITS a CADILLAC which in turns needs to have the ENGINEERING, TECH, LUXURY that BEFITS a Cadillac... Which means it needs to be EXPENSIVE as HELL...to support all that!!!

And maybe a small CUV that is expensive as hell might not sell in high numbers enough for Cadillac to invest in...which means Cadillac might cheapen all those qulaities and THAT is no bueno...

And if Cadillac wont do that, and if Cadillac might NOT sell enough expensive as hell XT3s, then either way...Cadillac needs to stay the hell out of that market.

Mercedes on the other hand...has that luxury to play with.  Produce and sell luxury vehicles and produce and sell entry level stuff. The luxury stuff is celebrated by folk just because and that alone sells the entry level stuff. 

GM has Buick.  

Different brands, Mercedes and Cadillac.

Mercedes and  Cadillac were a force in the luxury market pre 1940s. 2 World Wars forced Mercedes to be what it is today.  Entry level, luxury and trucks. Military and commercial.   GM was that too.  But GM had other brands...

GREED and STUPIDITY made Cadillac be what they are today. It works for Mercedes because war and the fight to survive made Mercedes re-invent itself.  GREED and STUPIDITY ultimately made Cadillac fight for survival and the now need to survive...and be more like Mercedes. 

Mercedes might have copied Cadillac in the 1960s and 1970s to regain their place in the luxury world, Cadillac did not need to sell more lower priced cars like Mercedes did... and THAT is what is STILL killing Cadillac.  That DUMB ideology that Cadillac needs to be in EVERY garage in all facets of North American life. It does NOT. Cadillac only needs to sell to the stupidly, filthy rich!!!

Great rant?

Stupid rant?

Give me a break. Im still sick (but getting better)  and I havent talk cars for a while...    

Edited March 2, 2020 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

You have just answered your own question as to why Cadillac does not have an XT3. NO NEED since Buick has this covered and Luxury buyers are not interested in such a small micro auto.

Only posers who care about a badge more than luxury comfort would buy this and while BMW and MB do not have other brands to sell, they have gone from a Luxury only to covering from cheap entry level to luxury to compete with GM Chevrolet/Buick-GMC/Cadillac.

Nothing Else needs to be said.

But an XT3 would be more luxurious than a Buick and have Super Cruise.  
 

If it is about R&D dollars and they want to spend the money on EV’s then I can see that as a better use of resources.  A small EV Cadillac would make more sense, especially from a weight and packaging standpoint.

As for the UX, if it was a hybrid at this price point it wouldn’t be as much of a rip off and Lexus buyers would be able to brag about driving a hybrid even if the car sucks, it still gives them a reason to buy.

Edited March 2, 2020 by smk4565

[surreal1272]

On 3/1/2020 at 9:43 AM, ocnblu said:

No, but if we do, it's great knowing how easy it is getting going again, fully replenished.

400 miles of new possibilities in five minutes. 

Yeah it just sucks when you have the convenience of refilling your car at home while you sleep and not have to deal tweeters and crackheads while you spend five minutes pumping that flammable liquid.

[surreal1272]

On 2/28/2020 at 12:51 PM, surreal1272 said:

No, no, no, and yet more no! Too many better options over this overdressed (and uglier) version of a RAV4.

I appears I had the UX and the NX crossed up. It’s the equally hideous NX thats the RAV4 twin.

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Toyota sold 17,000 UX’s last year and 49,000 of it’s platform mate the CH-R.  And they probably sell more than that in Asia.  It is a small segment but it is growing, and Cadillac will probably only sell 17k CT4’s this year and that car actually costs some money to build, definitely costs more than a rebadged Trax would.
 

Probably the only reason there isn’t an XT3 is so that it doesn’t overlap the Buick Encore/GX.

So the CT4 will sell a tick less than the A Class did in 2019 (which only sold just over 17K units). Nice to know Cadillac won’t be the only ones struggling to move certain sedans. 

[frogger]

16 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I appears I had the UX and the NX crossed up. It’s the equally hideous NX thats the RAV4 twin.

So the CT4 will sell a tick less than the A Class did in 2019 (which only sold just over 17K units). Nice to know Cadillac won’t be the only ones struggling to move certain sedans. 

A Class is pretty much designed for the European market, looks like it sold almost 200K units there last year (though I'd imagine many if not most would pick a hatchback in Europe) , sales elsewhere are gravy.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by frogger

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

But, there's just a styling difference between an Escalade and a Denali. You're paying a premium for the badge the same way one would for a GLA. 

The one distinctive thing you get in an Escalade over the Denali is SuperCruise. 

That is where you are wrong, there is more than a styling difference, there is also as SMK loves to talk about on the high end of MB, interior material differences between Cadillac and GMC. Far more differences than I will waste time listing here, but there is if you really have spent time looking at the two.

[ccap41]

9 minutes ago, dfelt said:

That is where you are wrong, there is more than a styling difference, there is also as SMK loves to talk about on the high end of MB, interior material differences between Cadillac and GMC. Far more differences than I will waste time listing here, but there is if you really have spent time looking at the two.

Oh no, I've read them.

SuperCruise and a superior sound system. Oh and you get a mini-fridge. 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021-cadillac-escalade-vs-gmc-yukon-denali-chevy-tahoe-high-country-differences-comparison/

"

What Does The Escalade Have The Yukon/Tahoe Don't?

Only 2021 Cadillac Escalade buyers can opt for an onboard refrigerator-freezer or night vision. And 2021 GMC Yukon/XL Denali buyers are the only ones who can purchase a power-sliding center console. Motoring said console aft 10 inches (via an unmarked button on the center roof console) opens up a space to store a purse or parcel, moves the cupholders on the rear of said console closer to occupants of the rear captain's chairs (the option isn't offered with a middle-row bench seat), and exposes a drawer in the bottom of the console in which to store valuables. When the console's motored forward and the key is away from the vehicle, it would take a lot of vicious crowbarring to access what's in that drawer.

"

It's basically the definition of putting lipstick on a pig. I'm not saying the end product is bad in any way. It's just also a vehicle for people who love status symbols...because the Denali exists. 

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, frogger said:

A Class is pretty much designed for the European market, looks like it sold almost 200K units there last year (though I'd imagine many if not most would pick a hatchback in Europe) , sales elsewhere are gravy.

 

 

Talking about US sales since that is what SMK is referring to.

[G. David Felt]

52 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Oh no, I've read them.

SuperCruise and a superior sound system. Oh and you get a mini-fridge. 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021-cadillac-escalade-vs-gmc-yukon-denali-chevy-tahoe-high-country-differences-comparison/

"

What Does The Escalade Have The Yukon/Tahoe Don't?

Only 2021 Cadillac Escalade buyers can opt for an onboard refrigerator-freezer or night vision. And 2021 GMC Yukon/XL Denali buyers are the only ones who can purchase a power-sliding center console. Motoring said console aft 10 inches (via an unmarked button on the center roof console) opens up a space to store a purse or parcel, moves the cupholders on the rear of said console closer to occupants of the rear captain's chairs (the option isn't offered with a middle-row bench seat), and exposes a drawer in the bottom of the console in which to store valuables. When the console's motored forward and the key is away from the vehicle, it would take a lot of vicious crowbarring to access what's in that drawer.

"

It's basically the definition of putting lipstick on a pig. I'm not saying the end product is bad in any way. It's just also a vehicle for people who love status symbols...because the Denali exists. 

Considering in the past the Pleather versus leather differences, cloth differences, wood versus plastic wood, etc. I have to think there will be more of a difference than what MT has to say, there has been in the past. You also have that huge super screen dash which Yukon does not get.

Be interesting to see them side by side and truly compare.

[frogger]

Cadillac might as well make an XT3 for the China market.  China is Cadillac's biggest market, it sells more vehicles there than in the US, and they don't sell the Escalade there.  There is no legacy of large cars (or desire for large cars) or sentimentality for old model names there.  GM has been losing market share in China for a few years now, they might as well bring new models to try to attract buyers.

 

[riviera74]

13 minutes ago, frogger said:

Cadillac might as well make an XT3 for the China market.  China is Cadillac's biggest market, it sells more vehicles there than in the US, and they don't sell the Escalade there.  There is no legacy of large cars (or desire for large cars) or sentimentality for old model names there.  GM has been losing market share in China for a few years now, they might as well bring new models to try to attract buyers.

 

THIS idea actually makes sense.  Smaller cars because of engine displacement taxes is a sound idea indeed.  Buick China outsells Buick USA by 4 to 1, hence why Buick is focused there.  It would be completely ridiculous for a small Cadillac to be sold here, especially in crossover form.

[ocnblu]

4 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Yeah it just sucks when you have the convenience of refilling your car at home while you sleep and not have to deal tweeters and crackheads while you spend five minutes pumping that flammable liquid.

I haven't had to deal with such trash as that, maybe you should try a different gas station next time you fill up the giant gas powered station wagon you just bought.  I do like your Flex if I haven't already said.

[surreal1272]

14 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I haven't had to deal with such trash as that, maybe you should try a different gas station next time you fill up the giant gas powered station wagon you just bought.  I do like your Flex if I haven't already said.

LOL! Then consider yourself lucky. I avoided those particular places like the plague in Phoenix and here in NC. Just saying that its an issue in a lot of places these days and the convenience of just letting your EV charge up overnight at home cannot be discounted just because one hates EVs.

 

And thanks. Really happy with the ride, especially since I performed the Sync2 to Sync3 upgrade. World of difference there.

[Robert Hall]

I just avoid stopping for gas in shady/seedy neighborhoods.  

[G. David Felt]

56 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I just avoid stopping for gas in shady/seedy neighborhoods.  

Seedy Places increase oxygen.  

[regfootball]

Parking Assist, Rear Cross Traffic Alert w/Braking - $565.00
Blind Spot Monitor - $500.00

be nice if this were standard on a lexus

[riviera74]

15 minutes ago, regfootball said:

Parking Assist, Rear Cross Traffic Alert w/Braking - $565.00
Blind Spot Monitor - $500.00

be nice if this were standard on a lexus

AMEN to that!