Cadillac News: The Unclear Future of the Blackwing V8

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

I have no idea what BMW or mercedes stands for. I want to say 'luxury' but their respective dives into cheap FWD appliances shatters that definition.

I think Cadillac's 3 best sellers are FWD, and they make up well over 50% of their total volume.  

[balthazar]

^ But the difference there is; mercedes/BMW is supposedly 'well-defined', and 'no one knows what Cadillac stands for'.

Of course the reality is, Cadillac has had at least 1 FWD entrant for over 50 years now, so which brand is breaking tradition moreso??

[smk4565]

Cadillac isn’t well defined because they change naming schemes every 10-15 years, their 2nd longest running nameplate dates back to 2016 and they are killing it off.  They also change marketing and slogans every other year.  No focus with this brand, no plan.

[balthazar]

The 'plan' is the same it's always been; to build well-performing, excellent driving luxury appointed vehicles.

Simple.

[riviera74]

16 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

I present to you the BMW 1 Series Hatch, 2 Series Grand Coupé (4 doors) and 2 Series Coupe. Based on a certain MINI...dont know which one. Dont really care either. 

 

All these years...all those shytty American car magazines....all these asshat American car buyers swearing off GM, Ford forever because of downsizing and FWD architecture and them switching to the German brands..  All that commotion,  bitching about wrong wheel drive and torque steer...

ALL THOSE BMW CUVs...ALL THOSE BMW 3 SERIES  and 5 SERIES WITH AWD SOLD SINCE THE 2000s...  ( AWD...adding weight for nothing!!!)

THE ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE  ?

I NOW HAVE THE LAST LAUGH!!!

AND A BIG MIDDLE FINGER TO ALL THOSE BMW DOUCHE BAGS AND AMERICAN AUTOMOBILE JOURNALISTS IN THE 1980s AND 1990s  THAT SHYTTED ON FWD PONTIACS AND CADILLACS ALL THESE YEARS!!!

 

 

 

All that may be true, but that still does nothing to improve Cadillac's market share whatsoever.  Cadillac needs to have MB/BMW/Audi drivers trade in those German vehicles for Cadillac ones.  How do you get that done on a consistent basis?

[oldshurst442]

Well...the other reality and truth to all of this is that Cadillac screwed itself with not being the best of the best.

1. 8-6-4 V8

2. Cimarron badge engineering BS

3. Northstar V8 gasket fiasco

In that period of time, those 3 events caused the lack of faith in the brand. 

Then Cadillac did not favours to itself by going down that same rabbit hole with the Opel Omega badge engineered Catera. Although people did not know what an Opel Omega was, that car was not a Cadillac.  At best, it was a Pontiac or even a Chevrolet. 

Then half baked products like the 1st gen CTS, XLR.  

Then no balls to actually produce awe inspiring concepts they wooed the world with. The one they actually did, was half baked... XLR

Every since the 1st gen CTS...Cadillac has taken the right steps for people to forget about those 3 cataclysmic events from the 1980s and 1990s.  They just fail to build upon that momentum. 

They fail to recognize the oomph they got from  Cien, Ciel, ElMiraj.  In 2020, maybe those products are not right for Cadillac as times have changed again. But, they need to recognize that in 2020 going forward, people want a Cadillac what Cadillac always represented as an emotion and as a physical object itself. Cadillac product planners and marketing people need to acknowledge that formula and tell the engineers what that is so the engineers could build it and marketing people could sell it.

Its as simple as that.

What is that formula?    Its 115 years of excellence.  Its the Dewar Trophy. Its the V16. Its the Coupe DeVille and Eldorado. Its the Escalade. Its the countless images of stretched limousines.  Its "the Cadillac of " memes 100 years BEFORE memes were ever a thing. 

They know they got it. They just dont use it...

 

 

 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

All that may be true, but that still does nothing to improve Cadillac's market share whatsoever.  Cadillac needs to have MB/BMW/Audi drivers trade in those German vehicles for Cadillac ones.  How do you get that done on a consistent basis?

This is where Cadillac needs to increase the Marketing as I saw tons of MB, BMW and Audi ads over xmas talking about the whole family. Yet I have yet to see any big marketing of Cadillac.

Also, how about some realistic drive events for the masses, not just special by invitation only drive events.

Cadillac is missing key marketing, ads, experience by having conquest drive events to see why they have superior auto's.

So much can be done, so little is being done.  

[balthazar]

I've seen a decent number of Cadillac ads on TV in the last few months, but perhaps I simply tune out the Germans triplet ads.

[G. David Felt]

25 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I've seen a decent number of Cadillac ads on TV in the last few months, but perhaps I simply tune out the Germans triplet ads.

Is this like on regular comcast tv lines or over the air? I honestly do not watch local tv stations and only use stream services of commercial free content. As such, I do not see anything from Cadillac, Chevrolet, Buick or GMC, yet I see the German and Asian auto companies on the web all the time.

I am thinking GM is out of touch with the work force that embraces all things computers.

[smk4565]

I sat in a Kia Telluride at the auto show with a $47,800 sticker and it was nicer than an XT6.  Kia is on point with that Telluride, easily the best interior in its own segment.  But when they can punch above their weight class and have a better interior than Cadillac or Acura that is an achievement.  And a problem for Cadillac, they don’t punch above their weight class which is what challenger brands have to do.  Even the current Escalade which i get has been around a while, the interior on that is like Lincoln Corsair level.  

Edited February 17, 2020 by smk4565

[balthazar]

57 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Is this like on regular comcast tv lines or over the air? I honestly do not watch local tv stations and only use stream services of commercial free content.

I currently have satellite TV.

Obviously, different brands advertise via different media/schedules; I don’t know that limited viewing gives an accurate snapshot.

[riviera74]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I sat in a Kia Telluride at the auto show with a $47,800 sticker and it was nicer than an XT6.  Kia is on point with that Telluride, easily the best interior in its own segment.  But when they can punch above their weight class and have a better interior than Cadillac or Acura that is an achievement.  And a problem for Cadillac, they don’t punch above their weight class which is what challenger brands have to do.  Even the current Escalade which i get has been around a while, the interior on that is like Lincoln Corsair level.  

Get Cadillac to benchmark interiors so that Cadillac can improve them on the next MCE.

[oldshurst442]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 And a problem for Cadillac, they don’t punch above their weight class

Ill agree with you there...

A BIGGER problem for Cadillac is NOT punching above their weight class. But Cadillac BEING the weight class.

Its the "the Cadillac of"  meme that has to return to Cadillac products in quality and in luxury that needs to return to Cadillac.

Like you said...the XT6 is not that kind of Cadillac. It aint bad. Its just OK, par for the course for the market standard in its class. But THAT is NOT what Cadillac stands for.

I sat in the new CT5 V at the Montreal auto show...

Now THAT is what a Cadillac should look like on the inside and the outside (minus that C Pillar blunder). But for a sports sedan...an ICE one at that...its too little too late!  Its too damned bad this level of car was NOT the 1st gen or even the 2nd gen CTS or 1st gen RWD STS...

The CT5 V interior was sublime. Notice I said CT5 V.  I dont know about the lower trim CT5 as Cadillac only had the CT4 V and CT5 V present. The CT4 Vs interior was also great.  Too damned bad that the XT6 could not be that good either...   But Cadillac shouldnt be playing in that small car sandbox either. People for the last part of the last decade and into a new decade want BIG Cadillacs again.  I could feel that vibe in crappy Quebec. Im shocked the Cadillac folk over at New York (former new Cadillac HQ?) and Detroit dont feel it...

[balthazar]

14 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Its too damned bad this level of car was NOT the 1st gen or even the 2nd gen CTS or 1st gen RWD STS...

Let's rephrase this as a question.
Is the 2020 BMW 3-series M-whatsit the same level as the 2002 BMW 3-series base car?
I mean; what is the frequency of a luxury sport sedan not evolving & improving for 18 years?

You do see what you said above....

[oldshurst442]

23 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Let's rephrase this as a question.
Is the 2020 BMW 3-series M-whatsit the same level as the 2002 BMW 3-series base car?
I mean; what is the frequency of a luxury sport sedan not evolving & improving for 18 years?

You do see what you said above....

Yeah. I see what I said. I see what you did there also.

Let me rephrase what I said.

Its too damned bad that the 1st gen CTS, the RWD STS and the 2nd gen CTS did not have  quality and refinement deemed worthy of the Cadillac nameplate  that was made famous back in the golden era of Cadillac. The CT5 V and CT4 V possess  this forgotten trait, and its about time Cadillac got its shyt together.  Its just that with ICE sports sedans, it maybe too little too late. The XT6's  interior should have had the same treatment as those new sports sedans though. The 2021 Escalade's interior looks like the trend continues like the new sports sedans... 

 

PS:  This aint about BMW. I dont care for BMW. I care for Cadillac. Cadillac in the year 1997, 2001, 2005...1986...should have NEVER sunk that low with its image and interior quality and luxury to begin with...

Edited February 18, 2020 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

It's a sliding scale, IMO.

Frankly, Cadillac interiors have had 'issues' at various times in various models going back into the '70s (if we're still comparing to the marque's peak decades). ALL luxury brands have. Was it a 'problem' in the '70s when Cadillac was setting the USDM luxury brand sales records? Was it a 'problem' when the 1st gen CTS made huge inroads into a segment the brand never was in before, stealing marketshare from long-running models there?
I guess, looking at the big picture, I'd have to say it wasn't. Doesn't mean I like the 'refinement issues' or the interior treatments overall. I'm picky on these things, despite, overall, being a fan of Cadillac.

It's not that I'm focusing on BMW, but we cannot comment on Cadillac's execution in a bubble. Mercedes used to throw those giant black rubber steering wheels from the truck parts bin in everything for decades- even when nothing else in the interior was black. Teeth-gnashingly horrific, but most folk give them a pass on it for some reason.
And I'm picky on these things, despite not being a fan of mercedes.

[oldshurst442]

12 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Frankly, Cadillac interiors have had 'issues' at various times in various models going back into the '70s (if we're still comparing to the marque's peak decades) ALL luxury brands have. Was it a 'problem' in the '70s when Cadillac was setting the USDM luxury brand sales records?

Yes we are. And now you have intrigued me.  Although I do know Cadillac's downward spiral started in the 1970s, I didnt realize interior quality was an issue then. I thought it was a product issue as not the right product for the changing  times rather than a quality interior problem. Unless of course the heavy velour, was deemed a problem then. I honestly dont think it was.  Tacky? SURE! But I thought that was the definition of luxury then. 

Mercedes' interiors were cheap then. And if they had leather, it was thin leather. It was an interior that always seemed to be lacking in substance.  

I dont think it was a problem then.

22 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Was it a 'problem' when the 1st gen CTS made huge inroads into a segment the brand never was in before, stealing marketshare from long-running models there?

I think that was a problem. Yes.

The CTS made inwards as sports sedans was the flavour de jour regarding econobox luxury. At that time though, the 1st gen CTS was also another case of too little too late, but more realistically, not enough. The interior of the 1st gen CTS was horrid. The BMW 3 Series was at that point in time, at its height of greatness on all levels. Had the 1st gen CTS' interior been more of a Cadillac's rather than a mid level Chevy, and Cadillac continued on that trend, then we wouldnt be having this conversation today about missed opportunities and market share and Cadillac image problems.

34 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I guess, looking at the big picture, I'd have to say it wasn't. Doesn't mean I like the 'refinement issues' or the interior treatments overall. I'm picky on these things, despite, overall, being a fan of Cadillac.

I guess I answered this part opposite of your point of view. I think it was a problem and continues to be in the grand scheme of things. But I guess the bigger problem at Cadillac during the last 2 decades would be a lack of the right product to sell to the right people for the sign of the times.  They got the idea of the sports sedan right with the Catera, except it was the wrong execution with the wrong car. The 1st and 2nd gen CTS was the right product but aimed at the wrong niche. It was marketed properly though.   But the interiors were not worthy of a Cadillac.

41 minutes ago, balthazar said:

It's not that I'm focusing on BMW, but we cannot comment on Cadillac's execution in a bubble. Mercedes used to throw those giant black rubber steering wheels from the truck parts bin in everything for decades- even when nothing else in the interior was black. Teeth-gnashingly horrific, but most folk give them a pass on it for some reason.
And I'm picky on these things, despite not being a fan of mercedes.

The German luxury triplet brands just capitalized on the shame and hatred that Americans  had for the American automobile with marketing... 

The Ultimate Driving Machine

Engineered Like No Other

Both tag lines aimed squarely at the emotions of Americans towards their own automobile industry.

There was no longer a party in the back of a Cadillac.  

[balthazar]

IM long-time studying O, Cadillac was sitting pretty thru the whole 1970s. Yes, there was a deviation from real wood to plood, but this was par for the luxury course then (MB SL's used 'wood' contact paper -shudder!!-). Cadillac's products were spot-on, advertising was frequent & consistent; hitting on all cylinders.

But there came a few misfires; the (very rare) '78-up diesel 350, then the V8-6-4 of '81. Those, juxtaposed against a lifetime of rock-solid engines prior-to, were a real put-off. Then the '82 Cimarron, coupled with the next post-'81 engine; the too-small '82 HT4100. These closely-spaced scenarios put serious dents in Cadillac.
The next salvo was the too-small downsizing of the '85 big cars, and the '86 Seville.

You knew these specifics were too small once you saw them reverse by the late '80s; 4.1L went to 4.6L then 4.9L, and the big cars grew in length, as did the next gen Seville.

Edited February 18, 2020 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

I, once again, never thought downsizing of engine size was a problem during  the 1980s. Gas prices were still high. But I see that complaint often enough.  I thought more of a problem was going all in with FWD. Not that was a problem, but maybe GM could have eased up on that for Cadilllac.  I thought that some of those models resembling too much like the other lesser GM brands with the badge engineered Cimarron being front and center was another big issue. 

Example:  the 1986 Eldo resembling too much like an Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais and the 1988 Seville looking like a Delta 88 . I would have thought that was more the issue rather than the engines that powered them. It was the 1980s and most engines of that time were small in displacement with low HP numbers after all.  But I could see as to how that was a problem with your examples. 

There was nothing wrong with the 1990s STS. It was a solid car. Solid quality. Solid luxury.  I did put the blame on the gasket problems of the Northstar and that was just another huge step backwards for Cadillac as the 1990s progressed. The Catera had its own issues that did not help Cadillac either. 

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by oldshurst442

[ccap41]

On 2/14/2020 at 6:59 PM, smk4565 said:

The X7 seems to be well reviewed and do well in comparison tests.  GLS and X7 are both superior to Escalade, Navigator and QX80 in jus about every way except towing and they aren't beat there by all that much.  These body on frame SUVs is like a Town Car going against an S-class.

Those big-ole body on frame SUVs dwarf the GLS and X7. 

[ccap41]

On 2/14/2020 at 8:47 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Lamborghini had an off roading SUV in the late 1980s early 1990s.  Didnt do too well in the market place.  So...Lamborghini does the Urus in the image of Lamborghini...but that too...is just an OK performance vehicle. Its great as a clumsy heavy machine...but as a true blue performance thing?  Meh by today's standards...

"The end result is the quickest SUV we've ever tested. In 0-60 mph tests, the Urus smokes both the Tesla Model X and Mercedes-AMG GLC 63 S fastback, accelerating to 60 mph in just 3.0 seconds and running the quarter mile in 11.3 seconds at 120.1 mph. And, thanks to pizza-pie-sized carbon ceramic brakes and lightweight aluminum bodywork (despite its size, the Urus weighs just 4,931 pounds—believe it or not, that's pretty light for its class), the Lamborghini can stop from 60 to 0 mph in just 107 feet.

That chassis, despite being the progeny of Audi, helps the Urus handle as a Lamborghini should, too. Aided by a hyper-responsive air suspension system and four-wheel steering, the Urus pulls 1.01 g average on the skidpad and laps the figure eight in 23.5 seconds at 0.87 g. To put the latter number into context, that's quicker than an Aston Martin Vantage (24.0 seconds at 0.83 g), a Porsche Panamera Turbo Sport Turismo (23.8 seconds at 0.85 g), and a BMW M5 (23.7 seconds at 0.84 g), and it ties the last Audi R8 V10+ we tested (23.5 seconds at 0.90 g). "

[oldshurst442]

^^^

I stand corrected! 

[smk4565]

Problem isn’t really Cadillac’s past, it is that the current product line isn’t good enough.  And I sat in the CT4 and CT5 V’s, they are like Genesis G70 level interiors.  Nothing special or class leading about them.  They aren’t that much of an upgrade if any over the CTS and the CTS wasn’t selling.

[Robert Hall]

On 2/16/2020 at 8:48 PM, smk4565 said:

I think Cadillac's 3 best sellers are FWD, and they make up well over 50% of their total volume.  

Those are just generic CUVs on shared platforms with other GM appliances, though.  Nothing special.  

Edited February 18, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

^ but NOTHING is special anymore. ☹️

[G. David Felt]

38 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ but NOTHING is special anymore. ☹️

Too True, Cadillac just has nothing exciting right now that is WOW, Gotta spend my hard earned money on.

[balthazar]

Blackwing CT6-V 4.2L TT does nothing for you?
600+ HP 6.2L SC CT5-V too slow?

[ccap41]

Isn't that already done being produced and the other one hasn't officially been announced, just assumed?

Edited February 18, 2020 by ccap41

[balthazar]

I don’t know if all the BW’s are sold out or not. They definitely are exciting tho.

CT5-V is on the way shortly (along with the CT4-V), so if one wanted a hi-po Cadillac, there obviously are products ‘out there’. Oh, and a ‘21 Escalade V.

You just can’t sit there, not buying, then complain if it goes out of production.

Didn’t the last gen BMW 3-series, when it first came out, take 1.5 years for the M version to be released?

Edited February 18, 2020 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

23 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Blackwing CT6-V 4.2L TT does nothing for you?
600+ HP 6.2L SC CT5-V too slow?

Blackwing is exciting, but not in an Escalade ESV yet that we know of.

CT5-V is exciting but not released yet nor will it fit me.

I am not cramming my size into a car, Cadillac does not have a luxury pickup anymore and the new Escalade is just Meh on the exterior.

So NO, nothing exciting to get me to spend money outside of service on my existing fleet.

[smk4565]

Who knows if they will really do a V8 in the CT5, that could easily get budget cut if the CT5 sells slowly out of the gate.  SUVs are what sell, and Cadillac put all theirs on chassis that can't support much more than 300 lb-ft of torque, this is the great miss.   And Escalade-V, we'll see if they actually make it.  I think they should, it is easy profit margin, but they haven't done it yet after years of horsepower wars.  In the 2020s things will probably become the EV wars, and the 6.2 V8 will seem like yesterday's powertrain.  

[balthazar]

4 hours ago, dfelt said:

Blackwing is exciting, but not in an Escalade ESV yet that we know of.

CT5-V is exciting but not released yet nor will it fit me.

I am not cramming my size into a car, Cadillac does not have a luxury pickup anymore and the new Escalade is just Meh on the exterior.

So NO, nothing exciting to get me to spend money outside of service on my existing fleet.

OK- I should have assumed, but you didn't state you were talking about you as a consumer.
I can easily say ferrari or lamborghini doesn't build anything exciting (because I have no intention of paying $100K+ for a vehicle).

Edited February 19, 2020 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

33 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Who knows if they will really do a V8 in the CT5, that could easily get budget cut if the CT5 sells slowly out of the gate.  SUVs are what sell, and Cadillac put all theirs on chassis that can't support much more than 300 lb-ft of torque, this is the great miss.   And Escalade-V, we'll see if they actually make it.  I think they should, it is easy profit margin, but they haven't done it yet after years of horsepower wars.  In the 2020s things will probably become the EV wars, and the 6.2 V8 will seem like yesterday's powertrain.  

Hello McFly, The Chassis can handle more than 300 lb-ft of Torque. GM just has not built the motor tranny combo to go above that as you pointed out, they have not exceeded above their potential yet!

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

OK- I should have assumed, but you didn't state you were talking about you as a consumer.
I can easily say ferrari or lamborghini doesn't build anything exciting (because I have no intention of paying $100K+ for a vehicle).

Valid point and thank you my friend you are right, I was thinking myself with my comment and should have clarified it.  Many of us I think tend to think of ourselves and leave comments that are very wide open to interpretation. We all should clarify ourselves versus the market.

They have Excitement that others will find, but for myself not yet!

[balthazar]

Only the Escalade has a chassis at Cadillac- all the rest are unibodies.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Hello McFly, The Chassis can handle more than 300 lb-ft of Torque. GM just has not built the motor tranny combo to go above that as you pointed out, they have not exceeded above their potential yet!

Valid point and thank you my friend you are right, I was thinking myself with my comment and should have clarified it.  Many of us I think tend to think of ourselves and leave comments that are very wide open to interpretation. We all should clarify ourselves versus the market.

They have Excitement that others will find, but for myself not yet!

Does GM have a FWD transmission that can handle 400 hp?  I guess they can resurrect the XTS V-sport powertrain for an XT5 or XT6, but would either of those be any good?  Or would they torque steer all over the place and have reliability issues?  

But again, I hear the "Cadillac could do it"  but at the end of the day they don't do it.   And others don't either (Acura, Lexus etc) but then you see a Lincoln Aviator with 400 hp base and 495 hp as an option, when Cadillac maxes out at 310 hp because that is all the front wheels can handle.   If Cadillac was going to do all this stuff, have the brand product line, or have good marketing, it would have happened by now.  

[G. David Felt]

10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Does GM have a FWD transmission that can handle 400 hp?  I guess they can resurrect the XTS V-sport powertrain for an XT5 or XT6, but would either of those be any good?  Or would they torque steer all over the place and have reliability issues?  

But again, I hear the "Cadillac could do it"  but at the end of the day they don't do it.   And others don't either (Acura, Lexus etc) but then you see a Lincoln Aviator with 400 hp base and 495 hp as an option, when Cadillac maxes out at 310 hp because that is all the front wheels can handle.   If Cadillac was going to do all this stuff, have the brand product line, or have good marketing, it would have happened by now.  

Yet now they are going EV with names, so I am sure they will have 400, 500 and 600 newton meters of torque on top of the 400, 500 and 600 kW power motors.

[oldshurst442]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And Escalade-V, we'll see if they actually make it.  I think they should, it is easy profit margin, but they haven't done it yet after years of horsepower wars.

Cadillac did not have to make an Escalade V with gi-normous horsepower upgrades. Even with the horsepower wars STILL going on. 

As an enthusiast, I think they should myself. 

As a business owner, Ill say: Hold on a minute! 

Easy profit YOU say...

Ill say maybe? Maybe not.  

The small R&D money needed to engineer room to  package the supercharged V8 in the Escalade engine bay. The small R&D money needed to create new body panels to differentiate it from the other lesser models.  The small R&D money needed to safety crash it and approve it.  All that creativity and energy and money spent  may not have been enough and worthwhile to recuperate even with a higher price tag for a market that simple may NOT be there...  

The Escalade always sold well. Especially towards its competition. There was NO NEED to invent a new niche for it.  Simply put, monies and energies were needed elsewhere...especially when the market deems 400 some odd horsepower ENOUGH for the Escalade...

Like the independant suspension thing.  It took long enough, right???!!!  Well, there was no need to fix that aspect. But finally,  for the next gen Escalade in 2021, Cadillac saw that the time is now for independent suspension. Maybe a hi-po V version is what Cadillac people are seeing for 2022? Maybe not...    Like I said before, the Escalade engineers and marketers KNOW what the Escalade is and what its not.  And if they deem that the time is right for a V version, then the market will see a V version...

You could shyte on GM all you want for whatever reason you want...and you will probably have a good argument on your side, for your side.

BUT...there are 2 models at GM that GM gets right each and every time.  And nobody should question what they are doing with them.  Those 2 models are the Corvette and the Escalade. 

Both the Corvette and Escalade engineering and marketing teams are really really dialed into their products. 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

As pointed out recently; the base Escalade has 40 more HP than the base GLS.

Edited February 19, 2020 by balthazar

[riviera74]

9 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Cadillac did not have to make an Escalade V with gi-normous horsepower upgrades. Even with the horsepower wars STILL going on. 

As an enthusiast, I think they should myself. 

As a business owner, Ill say: Hold on a minute! 

Easy profit YOU say...

Ill say maybe? Maybe not.  

The small R&D money needed to engineer room to  package the supercharged V8 in the Escalade engine bay. The small R&D money needed to create new body panels to differentiate it from the other lesser models.  The small R&D money needed to safety crash it and approve it.  All that creativity and energy and money spent  may not have been enough and worthwhile to recuperate even with a higher price tag for a market that simple may NOT be there...  

The Escalade always sold well. Especially towards its competition. There was NO NEED to invent a new niche for it.  Simply put, monies and energies were needed elsewhere...especially when the market deems 400 some odd horsepower ENOUGH for the Escalade...

Like the independant suspension thing.  It took long enough, right???!!!  Well, there was no need to fix that aspect. But finally,  for the next gen Escalade in 2021, Cadillac saw that the time is now for independent suspension. Maybe a hi-po V version is what Cadillac people are seeing for 2022? Maybe not...    Like I said before, the Escalade engineers and marketers KNOW what the Escalade is and what its not.  And if they deem that the time is right for a V version, then the market will see a V version...

You could shyte on GM all you want for whatever reason you want...and you will probably have a good argument on your side, for your side.

BUT...there are 2 models at GM that GM gets right each and every time.  And nobody should question what they are doing with them.  Those 2 models are the Corvette and the Escalade. 

Both the Corvette and Escalade engineering and marketing teams are really really dialed into their products. 

 

 

If only GM were really dialed into the rest of Cadillac too. . . . .

[ccap41]

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Who knows if they will really do a V8 in the CT5, that could easily get budget cut if the CT5 sells slowly out of the gate.  SUVs are what sell, and Cadillac put all theirs on chassis that can't support much more than 300 lb-ft of torque, this is the great miss.   And Escalade-V, we'll see if they actually make it.  I think they should, it is easy profit margin, but they haven't done it yet after years of horsepower wars.  In the 2020s things will probably become the EV wars, and the 6.2 V8 will seem like yesterday's powertrain.  

Do any of their CUVs make more than 300 lb-ft of torque? Obviously the Escalade does but that's not a CUV. 

[Robert Hall]

6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Do any of their CUVs make more than 300 lb-ft of torque? Obviously the Escalade does but that's not a CUV. 

No, but the LGX 3.6 in the XT5 and XT6 makes 271 units.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Robert Hall

[ccap41]

5 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

No, but the LGX 3.6 in the XT5 and XT6 makes 271 units.

Weak. 271 torques in a 3-row, luxury SUV shouldn't be a thing. The XT5 is large enough that there should be an upgrade available and the XT4 doesn't really need more(258 in the turbo-4) but an optional engine would be nice. This is a luxury automaker, after all. 

Lincoln, mother fckn Lincoln, has a much better drivetrain portfolio than Cadillac does right now with the 4.2 being discontinued and no s/c V8 available. 

[Robert Hall]

36 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Weak. 271 torques in a 3-row, luxury SUV shouldn't be a thing. The XT5 is large enough that there should be an upgrade available and the XT4 doesn't really need more(258 in the turbo-4) but an optional engine would be nice. This is a luxury automaker, after all. 

 

It’s more torque than the 3.6 LFY in the XT6’s siblings from Chevy and Buick though (but the Acadia being Professional Grade gets the same engine/torque).  And about the same as a major competitor (Lexus RX).  

Edited February 19, 2020 by Robert Hall

[ccap41]

25 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

It’s more torque than the 3.6 LFY in the XT6’s siblings from Chevy and Buick though.  And about the same as a major competitor (Lexus RX).  

It technically is more than the Buick and Chevy... 5 lb-ft more but at 2200rpm HIGHER. 

Wouldn't the GX be closer in comparison to an XT6? 

GX : $53,000

XT6 : $52,695

XT5 and RX are similarly priced as the XT6 & GX. 

[Robert Hall]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It technically is more than the Buick and Chevy... 5 lb-ft more but at 2200rpm HIGHER. 

Wouldn't the GX be closer in comparison to an XT6? 

GX : $53,000

XT6 : $52,695

XT5 and RX are similarly priced as the XT6 & GX. 

Well, GX is old school body-on-frame and only available w/ a V8 in the US, the RX is a generic transverse V6 layout as is the XT6.  And it is available in a 3rd row now.  

Edited February 19, 2020 by Robert Hall

[ccap41]

Just now, Robert Hall said:

Well, GX is old school body-on-frame, the RX is the same generic transverse engine layout as the XT6.  And it is available in a 3rd row now.  

If those two are cross shopped, the XT6 looses 10 times out of 10, saving $10,000. 

[frogger]

Ugh, GX or XT6, I'll pass on both.  If I was into offroading I might like the GX but such a dated interior and poor on-road dynamics.  Nice leather I'm guessing though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[smk4565]

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

As pointed out recently; the base Escalade has 40 more HP than the base GLS.

But the GLS has 3 other power options at 483, 550 and 603 hp,  

Escalade has the diesel option now, do at least there is another engine choice.  Looks doubtful that MB will bring the diesel GLS back here.  
 

I think a supercharged V8 Escalade would sell better than a diesel Escalade though.

[Robert Hall]

Diesel seems like it would be a dead end, outside of HD pickups.   A supercharged V8 then a Hybrid of some sort would make more sense...

[G. David Felt]

Diesel is DEAD ON ARRIVAL for Escalade. This Diesel engine has not had the time to really have enough real world driving to see if an Aluminum block with steel sleeves can live up to the 15:1 compression and not crack or have other issues. I would leave it in the Chevy and GMC brands and not in Cadillac. Luxury buyers in the US are past wanting diesel even in German brands. Diesel is Dead Dead Dead.

Hybrid, Supercharged / Turbo charged is where the engine options should be.

This whole basic V8 and Diesel  with a look that is way too Chevrolet shows that the new head of Cadillac is more concerned with playing politics than building Cadillac back into the standard of the world Luxury company with unique engines, interiors, exteriors, etc.

If Cadillac CANNOT set themselves apart from the rest of GM with their EVs and using names again, then Cadillac will never be anything other than a small local specific luxo auto company that has given up on the world.