neuronev Neuron EV - Newest Challenger to Tesla

[G. David Felt]

NEURON EV

CES 2020 has been a busy place this year with more auto companies showing of prototypes and finally production ready auto's than ever before. We have seen so much including the latest in super dense solid state batteries for the EVs to motorcycles and bikes.

This year we now get to see the latest competition to Tesla and Rivian in a well funded California / China based EV auto company called NEURON EV. This company has a swiss army knife of a truck/suv auto as well as a Semi truck that they say is going into production in 2020.

The truck which is seen here in Silver has a sister truck that was running around the streets which is the following Black T-One.

All the details you could ever want can be found here on this truck: https://www.neuronev.co/new-products/t-one-p-gyrwr

The cool thing about this modular truck is that is can be more than a truck, a tractor, a van. there are no limits to how one can configure up this beast of an EV.

The seat options are an interesting take as you can go like how Tesla showed their Semi with a center driving position as a base 3 seat configuration of 3 captain chairs, or a single drivers captain chair and a bench seat behind for 4 people and go from there to cover a wide range of colors, materials, etc. in customizing your auto. 

While this company is looking at this modular truck and semi for the US, in china they will have many more auto options including their V.E.G.A. or Versatile Electric Grand Automobile.

The company has great plans and while they have only two models for the US market, China will get many more that includes a medium duty truck, a bus, a MAP or Multipurpose Autonomous Platform focused on shipping yards, a HUB or autonomous transportation auto, in addition to the car, semi and truck.

NEURON EV has not released any details about their hp / torque other than to say class leading at this time. Two wheel drive and All Wheel Drive will be the choices folks will have and talk of a base 300 mile range battery pack. More details are to come later this year.

First Press release of 2020 can be found here:

https://www.neuronev.co/01102020

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC69MUFfq-4W8qxUWcGltBUg

 

[G. David Felt]

23 Views and no comments, very surprised that some have not stated how they feel about the style of this truck.

@balthazar What do you think of this truck and semi from a style point of view?

@Robert Hall @ccap41 @USA-1 @daves87rs @loki @smk4565 @ykX @regfootball @surreal1272 @oldshurst442 @ocnblu

Take a look at the link, some very innovative seating options for the Truck/SUV/VAN depending on configuration.

[Robert Hall]

Certainly seems like an interesting company, interesting potential product.. kind of a skateboard w/ configurable bodywork variations.  I wonder how real they are or how much is smoke and mirrors presentation... 

[loki]

not bad, in the way that electric vehicles could be styled, but still very bland, but not in any sort of bad way. makes me think blade runner, kinda.
the small truck and bus are fairly distinctive.

Edited January 18, 2020 by loki

[smk4565]

I feel like companies like this and all the other EV start ups are basically on a mission to just get bought out but a bigger manufacturer so the original investors can cash out.   This company probably doesn't want to sell cars, they want to get bought by Honda or Toyota or someone.

[oldshurst442]

Computer CAD drawings.

Some words typed on a teleprompter that sound good as to what we should expect because Tesla is the benchmark. Those same words are also on a website because teleprompter is soooooo last century.   However, no real data...just some of those magical words: Class leading and state of the art. 

A mock-up or two for some sort of  presentation.   (We dont know if in the video, that truck is powered by a battery and a motor or a Chevy small block V8 and gasoline...) 

No concrete date of when the actual product will be ready for people to buy.  Or when production will begin.  Or if those CAD designs are actually approved for production.  Or if those CAD designs are an exercise of what a human can do with a 3D computer program...but in reality its just a 3D drawing on a computer screen....

I will refrain to comment further on this up until we get NEURON EV to actually have a real working product, ready for production and ready for sale...

Why I say this?

Because I remember this presentation a while ago.   And if memory serves me right, this too, was a Tesla killer or competitor or whatever...

 

We are still waiting...

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by oldshurst442

[daves87rs]

Must have missed it...

One thing that I do like about it is how well it configures together. The different styles tend to suit it very well.

Front end is growing on me......

[balthazar]

Stylistically, these are a pair of 'mehs'; not much of anything going on.

[ccap41]

It doesn't do a whole lot for me. It gives off the gimmicky vibe of just being different to be different.  

I don't hate it though. 

[USA-1]

I brought up the Neuron EV T-One in a post on here a few months ago about the Tesla Cybertruck. T-One is a pretty slick futuristic truck and probably not far out in our future. I still think the center driver position will pose an issue and the front seat design hogs a lot of space for two potential passengers in front. I don't think US DOT would even allow this center driver setup anyway. I know right hand drive cars are illegal to sell here if new, so I doubt this would be any different.

I'll say it again, Neuron EV is displaying a truck that I would buy WAY before the fugly Tesla "Cyborg" truck if what they've both shown is a real actual production unit.

 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by USA-1

[ccap41]

It's not terrible but if gives off a gimmicky vibe to me. I'd go with a Rivian well before one of these, and they're made and owned in the US and not partially Chinese owned. 

[USA-1]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

It's not terrible but if gives off a gimmicky vibe to me. I'd go with a Rivian well before one of these

For sure, I like the Rivian R1T a lot better, it's actually the best BEV truck so far in my opinion. Cybertruck is definitely more gimmicky if it's even the actual production truck Tesla would bring out.

Edited January 25, 2020 by USA-1

[G. David Felt]

One Positive benefit that a Skateboard platform brings to Auto's is the ease of reconfiguration for local markets. Being drive by wire compared to past manual linkage of an auto, this should make configurations a much faster process.

[balthazar]

^ Unfortunately and inconsistent with the "less moving parts" mantra of EV proponents is the 'by wire' approach needlessly complicates and ADDS numerous components and points of potential failure. I realize these systems exist on more & more IC vehicles, but my point is the complexity & longevity questions. Still rocking the factory original mechanical throttle linkage on my 80-yr old truck, and I had to do nothing to it to have it working smoothly & linearly (it's also rather lengthy, as it crosses over to the pass side of the "throttle body", and is routed around the front of the engine).

Edited January 25, 2020 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

On 1/25/2020 at 12:09 PM, balthazar said:

^ Unfortunately and inconsistent with the "less moving parts" mantra of EV proponents is the 'by wire' approach needlessly complicates and ADDS numerous components and points of potential failure. I realize these systems exist on more & more IC vehicles, but my point is the complexity & longevity questions. Still rocking the factory original mechanical throttle linkage on my 80-yr old truck, and I had to do nothing to it to have it working smoothly & linearly (it's also rather lengthy, as it crosses over to the pass side of the "throttle body", and is routed around the front of the engine).

I understand your point, I also believe as many do that the 80yr old truck was over engineered as we really did build things back then to truly last compared to many auto's in the last 40 years that I believe would never go the distance in lasting that long on mechanical linkage.

I also agree that some of the electronics are built cheaply to wear out and generate repair revenue for the dealerships.

There is plenty of evidence that TBW can be built to military grade spec and last way longer than people would think even in a war zone. Depends on if you want to pay or not.

[balthazar]

Any component can be made to any level of quality/longevity, but all else 'being equal' ; mechanical should outlast multi-component electronics every time. Permanently sealed/lubricated pivot points are not going to get contaminated/corroded or fail before electronics- which don't seem to ever meet 'military grade spec' for longevity; that's not a basis the military really designs on.

[ccap41]

On 1/24/2020 at 6:35 PM, USA-1 said:

For sure, I like the Rivian R1T a lot better, it's actually the best BEV truck so far in my opinion. Cybertruck is definitely more gimmicky if it's even the actual production truck Tesla would bring out.

Yep, I have really high hopes for the R1T. Hopefully my hopes aren't becoming too high and then I'll be disappointed but I think their whole business plan and partnership(s) have me thinking they will be very successful. 

[balthazar]

Depends on the pricing. Initial sales will likely be good, but once the ‘one-uppers’ get theirs, sales will fall off. Right now, it’s a high-priced entry and the volume is going to stay low.

[Robert Hall]

Rivian seems like it has the most potential to succeed, esp. with it's Amazon and Ford deals and having a plant...moreso than many of these other electric truck startups, a lot of them seem to be smoke and mirrors, more hype than substance..and anything with Chinese funding I'm skeptical of..

[G. David Felt]

22 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Depends on the pricing. Initial sales will likely be good, but once the ‘one-uppers’ get theirs, sales will fall off. Right now, it’s a high-priced entry and the volume is going to stay low.

Rivian had originally stated much higher starting prices that were in the high $70,000's, but at the San Fransico Road Show this last weekend RJ stated this: Company founder RJ Scaringe told Reuters in a chat that the electric R1T truck and its R1S SUV counterpart would cost less than originally announced. He didn't provide full pricing, but he indicated that a mid-range R1T with 300 miles of range and an electrochromic glass roof would sell for $69,000, while a comparable R1S would sell for $72,000. The automaker had pegged the starting prices for the R1T and R1S at $61,500 and $65,000 respectively.

https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/26/rivian-ev-prices-lower-than-first-announced/

[USA-1]

Yeah, looked into that, not good having a large percentage of Chinese based investors with a US So.Cal based tech. startup like this one. FTC probably needs to step in eventually or at least closely monitor the situation.

Edited January 27, 2020 by USA-1

[G. David Felt]

31 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Yeah, looked into that, not good having a large percentage of Chinese based investors with a US So.Cal based tech. startup like this one. FTC probably needs to step in eventually or at least closely monitor the situation.

Yes, another reason I like Rivian is truly US backed start up with no Chinese influence yet. One does have to wonder about Tesla and the affects China has had with him to push the building of cars there.

[ccap41]

45 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Rivian had originally stated much higher starting prices that were in the high $70,000's, but at the San Fransico Road Show this last weekend RJ stated this: Company founder RJ Scaringe told Reuters in a chat that the electric R1T truck and its R1S SUV counterpart would cost less than originally announced. He didn't provide full pricing, but he indicated that a mid-range R1T with 300 miles of range and an electrochromic glass roof would sell for $69,000, while a comparable R1S would sell for $72,000. The automaker had pegged the starting prices for the R1T and R1S at $61,500 and $65,000 respectively.

https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/26/rivian-ev-prices-lower-than-first-announced/

Very nice.

While 60k+ is well out of my price range, it isn't all THAT terrible considering what you're getting and the performance and packaging these offer. We will see how things pan out though. Maybe it turns into a huge flop, maybe they get 200k sales a year and sustain that. We shall see. 

[G. David Felt]

8 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Very nice.

While 60k+ is well out of my price range, it isn't all THAT terrible considering what you're getting and the performance and packaging these offer. We will see how things pan out though. Maybe it turns into a huge flop, maybe they get 200k sales a year and sustain that. We shall see. 

Betting with building the Ford / Lincoln models the prices come down even more. Gut tells me that Ford will want to get the price lower asap.

[ccap41]

2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Betting with building the Ford / Lincoln models the prices come down even more. Gut tells me that Ford will want to get the price lower asap.

Personally, I doubt it will ever go down but if it just stays the same over the course of 5 years or so and accounting for inflation, it will be "like" it goes down. 

We have no clue how low it will or won't be as a Ford or Lincoln. I think it is assumed it will be a Lincoln, from what I've read. That is just speculation though as Ford and Rivian haven't released anything about it yet. 

[balthazar]

First price I ever heard, back when the Rivian pickup concept debuted over a year ago, was $69,500. Announcing 'the price will be lower' had better mean a tangible amount more than a mere $500.

[USA-1]

On 1/27/2020 at 11:16 AM, dfelt said:

Rivian had originally stated much higher starting prices that were in the high $70,000's, but at the San Fransico Road Show this last weekend RJ stated this: Company founder RJ Scaringe told Reuters in a chat that the electric R1T truck and its R1S SUV counterpart would cost less than originally announced. He didn't provide full pricing, but he indicated that a mid-range R1T with 300 miles of range and an electrochromic glass roof would sell for $69,000, while a comparable R1S would sell for $72,000. The automaker had pegged the starting prices for the R1T and R1S at $61,500 and $65,000 respectively.

https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/26/rivian-ev-prices-lower-than-first-announced/

Tesla is getting $60K+ for the Model 3 that was supposed to start at $35K-40K (unicorn) so a BEV midsize truck starting at $60K to $65K doesn't seem unreasonable, even though a bit high for the traditional midsize class pickup.

Rivian could be slightly emulating the GM pricing strategy with the new ME C8 Corvette "starting at $60K" that of which you won't find any early models starting at less than $65K or $70K, but they have to jump in somewhere. 

[G. David Felt]

On 1/27/2020 at 1:17 PM, balthazar said:

First price I ever heard, back when the Rivian pickup concept debuted over a year ago, was $69,500. Announcing 'the price will be lower' had better mean a tangible amount more than a mere $500.

Your correct that a little over a year ago base start price was at $70,000 for R1T and $72,000 for R1S, now base is $61,500 for R1T and $65,000 for R1S.

As per this story, more and more outlets are believing this is due to the fact that built on the same assembly line will be the new Lincoln EV SUV that will have up to quad motors and as much as 800HP inline with what Rivian will also offer folks for their products.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/01/29/lincoln-ev-rivian-platform-announcement/

As expected, as a builder builds more models, prices are expected to drop just like this as a decent price drop and the mid range model is now $69,000 for R1T and $72,000 for R1S.

[balthazar]

So did the price actually drop, or did they merely add a de-contented/ low-power trim??
$62K starting price (sans options I assume) is still very very stiff in the pick-up segment, and $72K is worse among SUVs.
That pricing is going to stifle sales volume, no question.

[G. David Felt]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

So did the price actually drop, or did they merely add a de-contented/ low-power trim??
$62K starting price (sans options I assume) is still very very stiff in the pick-up segment, and $72K is worse among SUVs.
That pricing is going to stifle sales volume, no question.

Price did drop as the basic version of the truck dropped from $70K to $61,500 and SUV from $72K to $65K. They never had posted prices on the mid spec version till now, but that seems to be filling in the past beginning prices as the mid price versions now.

[ccap41]

I think they just aimed high with their initial announcement and there was enough wiggle room to be able to lower the prices, this is just my opinion though. 

[balthazar]

^ The above could be quite the case.
In any order, it remains to be seen if a pick up starting at $62K is going to make much sales inroads against the established players starting in the upper 30s. Even the 'meat' of pickups sticker around $47-52K.

Edited January 29, 2020 by balthazar

[ccap41]

Oh I don't think this particular vehicle will make inroads against the established automakers but I think it'll be a second generation with a much cheaper entry price. 

I don't have proof but my thoughts are they make a higher priced vehicle with better margins for them for security and safety and once they are more established and grow their brand they can come into a higher volume segment. As of right now, they don't even have the capacity to do much damage to the D3 even if they had a 30k truck. 

they currently only have the capacity to build 264,000 vehicles a year and they have a contract to build 100,000 for Amazon and they''ll be building the new Lincoln SUV as well. They need the 100,000 for Amazon built by 2024 so for 2022-2024 the line will be split with Ford/Lincoln. 

This was a pretty interesting read.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/rivian-readies-production-electric-trucks-suvs-ford-lincoln-amazon/

[G. David Felt]

28 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Oh I don't think this particular vehicle will make inroads against the established automakers but I think it'll be a second generation with a much cheaper entry price. 

I don't have proof but my thoughts are they make a higher priced vehicle with better margins for them for security and safety and once they are more established and grow their brand they can come into a higher volume segment. As of right now, they don't even have the capacity to do much damage to the D3 even if they had a 30k truck. 

they currently only have the capacity to build 264,000 vehicles a year and they have a contract to build 100,000 for Amazon and they''ll be building the new Lincoln SUV as well. They need the 100,000 for Amazon built by 2024 so for 2022-2024 the line will be split with Ford/Lincoln. 

This was a pretty interesting read.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/rivian-readies-production-electric-trucks-suvs-ford-lincoln-amazon/

Thanks for the post. Building 25,000 vans a year for Amazon leaves space for 239,000 R1T and R1S EVs. RJ thinks trucks will start out high, but eventually equal SUV so that is 119,500 R1T and 119,500 R1S a year. If they hit it, time to expand. Course, that does not take into account the building of the Lincoln SUV that is to start in 2022. I could see them running out of space fast if Lincoln nails the style / design of their body to go on the skateboard platform by Rivian.

I honestly can see myself with one of each in my own driveway.

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, dfelt said:

Thanks for the post. Building 25,000 vans a year for Amazon leaves space for 239,000 R1T and R1S EVs. RJ thinks trucks will start out high, but eventually equal SUV so that is 119,500 R1T and 119,500 R1S a year. If they hit it, time to expand. Course, that does not take into account the building of the Lincoln SUV that is to start in 2022. I could see them running out of space fast if Lincoln nails the style / design of their body to go on the skateboard platform by Rivian.

I honestly can see myself with one of each in my own driveway.

And by 2022 they'll be splitting those lines with Ford/Lincoln so cut those numbers in about half. No clue on what actual sales will be but I would only assume they bought this plant with good forecasting of future demand. Even with 264,000 capacity, I think it said they are only running 1 shift and a second shift for battery production so they're predicting about 1/3 production capacity for now. I'm not sure how that exactly works for production, if it takes twice as long to make the battery packs than the rest of the vehicle? That's what that sounds like to me or maybe they plan that to get ahead of demand and sit on some battery packs and cut the 2nd shift for a period of time. Who knows. 

[ccap41]

Theoretically, doubling Tesla Model X's sales(as it costs about twice as much), that would be ~40-50,000 vehicles per year. Possibly doubling that for both SUV and truck and that would be roughly 35% capacity and that sounds smart and safe. It also makes since why they're working with Ford/Lincoln as even with 20,000 Lincoln's per year, it still leaves room for growth and demand. 

Completely theoretical numbers here...

45,000 R1T

45,000 R1S

20,000 Lincoln

25,000 amazon

135,000 out of a possible 264,000 is about 50% capacity and I think all of those are very generous numbers outside of Amazon, because that's a contract. 

[balthazar]

Double the Model X is more like 35K, but if the Model Y is priced on par with the 3, it not only should hit 50K but also syphon buyers off the overpriced Model X in significant numbers.

[ccap41]

This is what I went off but they might be global sales. 

Those weren't global. They were US-only sales. 

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

And by 2022 they'll be splitting those lines with Ford/Lincoln so cut those numbers in about half. No clue on what actual sales will be but I would only assume they bought this plant with good forecasting of future demand. Even with 264,000 capacity, I think it said they are only running 1 shift and a second shift for battery production so they're predicting about 1/3 production capacity for now. I'm not sure how that exactly works for production, if it takes twice as long to make the battery packs than the rest of the vehicle? That's what that sounds like to me or maybe they plan that to get ahead of demand and sit on some battery packs and cut the 2nd shift for a period of time. Who knows. 

Keep in mind that they will ship batteries to Ford for their F150 line which will use the Rivian platform. So the double battery shifts are probably taking the F150 into account too.

[ccap41]

6 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Keep in mind that they will ship batteries to Ford for their F150 line which will use the Rivian platform. So the double battery shifts are probably taking the F150 into account too.

I didn't realize they were supplying the Rivian platform for the electric F150, as well. Interesting.. that makes me wonder how different that F150 will be from the ICE F150's. 

Either way, that isn't out now and they're still planning the 2nd shift for battery production. It makes me wonder if it takes that much longer to produce the battery packs or if they're stocking up for future use. 

[G. David Felt]

56 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I didn't realize they were supplying the Rivian platform for the electric F150, as well. Interesting.. that makes me wonder how different that F150 will be from the ICE F150's. 

Either way, that isn't out now and they're still planning the 2nd shift for battery production. It makes me wonder if it takes that much longer to produce the battery packs or if they're stocking up for future use. 

I would think stocking up, did you not see the F150 EV video I had posted that shows it looks allot like the ICE F150. Pretty easy to build an identical looking body and bolt it to the skateboard platform.

 

[balthazar]

I think the question is if that EV f-150 is in fact on a Rivian platform, or as a concept is it custom-built.

[G. David Felt]

15 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I think the question is if that EV f-150 is in fact on a Rivian platform, or as a concept is it custom-built.

Excellent question that I would love to know the answer too also.

balthazar found this story from last year where RJ is on record saying they had multiple Rivian platforms testing around detroit using F150 bodies as they fit onto the platform. As such this very well could be the Rivian skateboard with a true F150 body.

https://electrek.co/2019/02/27/rivian-undercover-f-150-electric-pickup-truck-test-mules/

[ccap41]

Yes, I've seen that video but nothing other than it being electric powered hints at Rivian. I haven't heard any reports hinting Ford will use Rivian's platform for the F150. 

[balthazar]

It seems very unlikely given the variety of F-150 body/bed combos. Unless the Rivian platform is easily lengthened/ strengthened.

I wonder how the typical BOF pickup, designed to handle high payloads, compares to a BE platform WRT allowing frame flex, torsional loads. Seems a thick, wide sandwich of batteries would have to allow for that without structural damage somehow. 

Edited January 30, 2020 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

Maybe they have come up with means of fitting batteries, electric motors, etc into a modified F150 frame...Rivian technology integrated w/ Ford hardware... 

But I don't know..on the hand, it sounds like the Lincoln EV SUV could be a reskinned R1S w/ a Lincoln interior... could a Ford pickup be a reskinned R1T with a Ford interior?   Only time will tell...(Note, I'm OBVIOUSLY talking about a FUTURE FORD EV PICKUP, NOT the regular ICE F series).  (wish I could put this in 36 pt font).

Edited January 31, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

^ Again, that would depend on if the Rivien platform was capable of providing all the wheelbase/ cab mounting combinations. It would be marketing stupidity to offer the BE version on only a single configuration.

[Robert Hall]

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

^ Again, that would depend on if the Rivien platform was capable of providing all the wheelbase/ cab mounting combinations. It would be marketing stupidity to offer the BE version on only a single configuration.

Who knows, they may go the route of the R1T with a only single configuration.   I guess it all depends on how serious Ford is about building a EV truck..is it simply a marketing stunt for Ford, or are they committed? 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

But the highlander already IS a single configuration.
The F-150 has multiple. Ford is not going to drop all the other combos of F-150...

[Robert Hall]

21 minutes ago, balthazar said:

But the highlander already IS a single configuration.
The F-150 has multiple. Ford is not going to drop all the other combos of F-150...

I didn't say they would.  But for an EV pickup, there may be only one configuration at first...has Ford even said the EV truck would branded as an F150?  It may be something altogether different, as far the naming...

Edited January 31, 2020 by Robert Hall