Cadillac News: The Non-V CT4 Revealed

[smk4565]

I don’t think the CT4 looks better than the ATS, it is a little bigger but I don’t know if it is roomier.  No V6 options.  I don’t know if they did anything here that makes this better than the ATS which wasn’t selling.  If they price it below ATS maybe they have a chance.

[ccap41]

Your opinion on "cheap ass version auto's" is a starting price of $32,500?

Our opinion on "cheap" is vastly different. 

The average transaction price of "entry level luxury cars" is over 42k. I know we all have varying opinions on things but I don't know anybody who things a $40,000 compact car is considered "cheap". 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/average-car-prices-more-1-110000010.html

16 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 I don’t know if they did anything here that makes this better than the ATS which wasn’t selling.  If they price it below ATS maybe they have a chance.

Isn't it a little larger? If it were to be the same price but offer more room and better engines(save for whatever the "real" V-Series comes out as), how isn't that better than the ATS? 

[G. David Felt]

49 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I don’t think the CT4 looks better than the ATS, it is a little bigger but I don’t know if it is roomier.  No V6 options.  I don’t know if they did anything here that makes this better than the ATS which wasn’t selling.  If they price it below ATS maybe they have a chance.

99.9% of people DO NOT CARE about engine size other than you. A-Class even in AMG form has NO V6, so why are you bitching about something that your precious A-Class DOES NOT HAVE?

Per their own web site, the A-Class AMG versions have high performance turbo 4 engines.

https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/vehicles/passenger-cars/a-class/the-new-mercedes-amg-a-45-4matic-and-cla-45-4matic/

https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/vehicles/passenger-cars/a-class/a-class/

https://www.mbusa.com/en/vehicles/class/a-class/sedan

Clearly lets focus on the positives and potential negatives of the NON V CT4 car.

Hopefully the CT4 will get both Coupe and 4 door standard and Hatch back versions. With this having a decent 4 Cylinder engine with performance of V and Blackwing versions should be good in a world going mostly CUV focused.

[surreal1272]

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Jesus, dude.. simmer down. You're over thinking this waaaaay too much. 

My initial response was to @dfelt anyway. 

My mental note is you go nuts over the smallest of things. 

My mental note is that your post is 100% BS and you know it (since you’re the one who said “use a better source” which was clearly directed at me) but moving on...

 

One has to be smoking the fanboy cigar pretty hard to think that the ATS looks better than the CT4 (especially the interior). Is it perfect? Nope. Is it a step up from the ATS? Seems like it. 

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Right my own opinion on that not being a troll, just pointing out MB has changed from what was viewed by most as a Luxury only automaker to what what it really is, a global automaker selling entry level FWD Blah appliances to ubber luxury level auto's as stupid crazy prices. IMHO. MB is no different than any other auto company out there with cheap ass version auto's to mid range to luxury to ubber luxury.

End result, Mercedes-Benz is NOT a Ubber Luxury auto company any longer. After all those cheap ass plastic delivery vans are sold alongside an S-Class on the same lot.

Done with this rant, back to the Non V CT4. Has potential, be interesting to see what all it does once it is on the lots for sale.

Hope GM actually  Markets them properly to drive sales.

In other words, nothing you stated in your “intentional troll” post was actually wrong meaning someone else jumped the gun and way overanalyzed it but hey...that’s okay. It’s easier to criticize others when you don’t own a mirror. 

[ccap41]

Everybody look at @surreal1272 He's at it again. No chill from that keyboard. 

 

i'M gOoD. sOrRy fOr AnY eScAlAtiOn oN mY pArT. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

 

Isn't it a little larger? If it were to be the same price but offer more room and better engines(save for whatever the "real" V-Series comes out as), how isn't that better than the ATS? 

It is larger so probably heavier, and the turbo 4 makes less power than the last one, the 2.7 makes less hp than the V6, although more torque.  I feel like if the Camaro went 237 hp turbo 4 standard and 325 hp turbo 4 in the SS then people would riot.  When Cadillac does it, it is called better.  What don’t see any overall performance gains coming with CT4.   The interior hasn’t been improved any, it looks to be Mazda-level.  What hooks buyers from other luxury sedans or gets them to buy CT4 over a crossover of similar price?

I think price is Cadillac’s only play, I would price this car at $29,950.

[Potluck]

Cadillac isn't done with engines for either of them.

[ccap41]

16 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It is larger so probably heavier, and the turbo 4 makes less power than the last one, the 2.7 makes less hp than the V6, although more torque.  I feel like if the Camaro went 237 hp turbo 4 standard and 325 hp turbo 4 in the SS then people would riot.  When Cadillac does it, it is called better.  What don’t see any overall performance gains coming with CT4.   The interior hasn’t been improved any, it looks to be Mazda-level.  What hooks buyers from other luxury sedans or gets them to buy CT4 over a crossover of similar price?

I think price is Cadillac’s only play, I would price this car at $29,950.

Well, I think it is well known that the "real" V-Series is yet to show itself. So ti isn't exactly like putting a turbo 4 in place of the SS's V8. 

If they priced it at 30k, why would anybody consider an A Class? Smaller car, much weaker engine, and it costs almost 3k more? 

[Potluck]

plus the 10-speed auto used in these is really good. I drove the XT4 a while back and the torque delivery with the 9-speed was pretty good. 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

It is larger so probably heavier, and the turbo 4 makes less power than the last one, the 2.7 makes less hp than the V6, although more torque.  I feel like if the Camaro went 237 hp turbo 4 standard and 325 hp turbo 4 in the SS then people would riot.  When Cadillac does it, it is called better.  What don’t see any overall performance gains coming with CT4.   The interior hasn’t been improved any, it looks to be Mazda-level.  What hooks buyers from other luxury sedans or gets them to buy CT4 over a crossover of similar price?

I think price is Cadillac’s only play, I would price this car at $29,950.

Horse with Blinders on I see, you clearly have been in your out dated old E-Class too long and not in a new Plastic C or A class auto as the CT4 interior is every bit as good and I am betting better than the C or A class interiors.

With that said we BOTH have made ASSumptions here since the car is not on the lots yet. So your "interior hasn't been improved any," is totall BS at this point.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Well, I think it is well known that the "real" V-Series is yet to show itself. So ti isn't exactly like putting a turbo 4 in place of the SS's V8. 

If they priced it at 30k, why would anybody consider an A Class? Smaller car, much weaker engine, and it costs almost 3k more? 

3-pointed Star and better technology for one.  

The “real” V-series should be the Blackwing V8.  But I don’t even know how much that moves the needle, we have had 15 years of V-series cars and Cadillac has lost market share in that time.

[ccap41]

Oh I have zero faith the interiors on the CT4 and CT5 will even match the C or E Class. Those two are known to be tops in their respective segments. 

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Everybody look at @surreal1272 He's at it again. No chill from that keyboard. 

 

i'M gOoD. sOrRy fOr AnY eScAlAtiOn oN mY pArT. 

What was that about trolling? You posted (after Drew said for us to chill) and I responded. Drop the BS already Mr. Escalator. 

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by surreal1272

[Drew Dowdell]

[surreal1272]

2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Tell it to ccap. I dropped it yesterday and he decides to continue to troll me after that fact and not wants to pretend that he innocent in $h! that was of his own doing. It merited a response and I stand by it. 

[ccap41]

tElL iT tO cCaP. hE sTaRtEd iT. 

[surreal1272]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

tElL iT tO cCaP. hE sTaRtEd iT. 

And thus proving my point. 

 

If you’re going to try and sit there while gaslighting folks, at least be good at it. Otherwise, just $h! up and grow the f@#k up. 

[G. David Felt]

CT4 versus A-Class Dash versus C-Class Dash

I will honestly say the C-Class looks dated to the Cadillac or A-Class and the A-Class leans more towards Tech than Luxury which is what I get out of the CT4. Different strokes for different folks. Older will like the CT4 over the A-Class younger will probably go with the A-Class. The A-Class and C-Class are far more sterile in my opinion than the CT4.

A-Class Interior - Very Sterile and Blah to me.

C-Class interior - All black leaves one with a very sterile look and those cheap plastic circle vents on both do not look good to me.

[ccap41]

Yeah, C Class FTW in this segment. 

[Drew Dowdell]

The CT4 and C-Class aren't in the same segment. The CT5 is the C-Class's competition.  Even the CT5 will be priced less than the C-Class. 

[smk4565]

I think the CT5 interior is decent, still a lot of black plastic button on that dash and not sure about that big gray slab of rubber on the center console.  But overall it looks good for the price point and pricing it below the C-class and 3-series is smart on them.   Not having sat in a CT5, I don't know how the material quality is, so it is a wait and see on that.

 

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, C Class FTW in this segment. 

Which is which in the above pics (A or C)? Neither looks to be 'above' the other...

Edited September 17, 2019 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

I think the CT5 interior is decent, still a lot of black plastic button on that dash and not sure about that big gray slab of rubber on the center console.  But overall it looks good for the price point and pricing it below the C-class and 3-series is smart on them.   Not having sat in a CT5, I don't know how the material quality is, so it is a wait and see on that.

 

It is loads better than that all black C-Class I got off their web site. That is a plastic nightmare on par with that sterile black and grey mess for the A-Class.

[smk4565]

Is this better, it isn't all black

This car is also entering its 6th year on the market, and still top of the class, and they'll advance it on the next one.

[G. David Felt]

42 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Is this better, it isn't all black

This car is also entering its 6th year on the market, and still top of the class, and they'll advance it on the next one.

While the black and brown is much better than all black or all tan, it still looks like an attempt at building a ricer auto with the same cheap plastic circle vents you find in Fords.

Pass, CT5 and 4 still look better to me.

[ccap41]

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

Which is which in the above pics (A or C)? Neither looks to be 'above' the other...

The wider center console is the biggest giveaway, that's the C Class. 

I think that is probably more telling of the A Class as the C Class' interior has been praised by most automotive journalists. 

Pictures also don't really tell the whole story with an interior. Anybody can make hard plastics look good in pictures. 

My biggest issue with their interior is with their infotainment control. From what I saw recently in a video it is 100% controlled from the "mouse" and is complete garbage to control. That would be an instant deal breaker and would send me to one of the other 5 vehicles in its respective class. 

[surreal1272]

13 hours ago, dfelt said:

While the black and brown is much better than all black or all tan, it still looks like an attempt at building a ricer auto with the same cheap plastic circle vents you find in Fords.

Pass, CT5 and 4 still look better to me.

The slab of woodgrain in the center stack looks very fake but I have never been a fan of glossy wood trim because to the naked eye, it just looks like high grade plastic. The matte finish in the top pic is nominally better but still "meh" to me. Like someone said, different strokes for different folks. Both Benz models look like they have about five different design directions going on with no real sense of cohesiveness. Both the CT4 and CT5 are much more consistent in this regard. Oh and when did having plastic buttons become a bad thing? If that is the case, can I point out all the plastic buttons in the above pics? Geez. Talk about nitpicking. 

[G. David Felt]

46 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

The slab of woodgrain in the center stack looks very fake but I have never been a fan of glossy wood trim because to the naked eye, it just looks like high grade plastic. The matte finish in the top pic is nominally better but still "meh" to me. Like someone said, different strokes for different folks. Both Benz models look like they have about five different design directions going on with no real sense of cohesiveness. Both the CT4 and CT5 are much more consistent in this regard. Oh and when did having plastic buttons become a bad thing? If that is the case, can I point out all the plastic buttons in the above pics? Geez. Talk about nitpicking. 

Agree that the Glossy wood accents in GM or for that matter any auto companies product looks fake and cheap to me too. Yes various members are nitpicking to attempt to justify MB doing the same thing as GM.

[ccap41]

Mercedes doesn't do anything that GM does other than manufacture automobiles. 

[balthazar]

^ So they each do 1 thing.

[surreal1272]

On 9/18/2019 at 9:13 AM, ccap41 said:

Mercedes doesn't do anything that GM does other than manufacture automobiles. 

That and introduce premium level cars like the CLA and now The A Class as opposed to their normal luxury level cars. Seems like GM has done something like that long before then. What was it? It’s on the top of my tongue. I think it rhymes with Puick. GM has been doing pseudo luxury/entry line premium cara for a decades and Mercedes has picked up that cue over the last five or six’s years. 
 

in other words, your assertion that manufacturing cars is the only thing they have in common is not accurate. Kind of a Jabroni move to assume such things. 

[ccap41]

Nothing at GM can touch anything at Mercedes.They may have competed decades ago but Mercedes lineup whoops Cadillac, top to bottom. The only thing they aren't into is consumer pickup trucks and their attempt to re-badge a Nissan was $h!. They were smart to get out of that atrocity before too long. 

Cute use of the word "jabroni". I see you continue to be unoriginal. 

[Drew Dowdell]

wtf is jabroni

[ccap41]

You must have never watched WWF/WWE back when The Rock was heavily involved in the late 90's-2000's.

To answer your question, "a foolish or contemptible person". 

[balthazar]

I specifically upvoted the chick above.

[Drew Dowdell]

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

You must have never watched WWF/WWE back when The Rock was heavily involved in the late 90's-2000's.

To answer your question, "a foolish or contemptible person". 

No, I never did watch such trash... 

[ccap41]

15 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I specifically upvoted the chick above.

11 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

No, I never did watch such trash... 

You're probably into reality shows instead.. 

I watched it when I was young and probably around 13-14 years old I got out of it. I have a buddy who still follows it, actually, and he put it this way to me that made me understand it better than thinking of it as "fake wrestling" or just plain "fake". "It's just entertainment. It's a story line that never ends and even though there's a pre-set outcome, the consumers still don't know so it's still a surprise every time". That's paraphrased as I don't know what he said word for word. 

It made me look at it differently. I still don't watch it but I get it now. I could see how somebody would still follow it. 

[Drew Dowdell]

18 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

You're probably into reality shows instead.. 

I watched it when I was young and probably around 13-14 years old I got out of it. I have a buddy who still follows it, actually, and he put it this way to me that made me understand it better than thinking of it as "fake wrestling" or just plain "fake". "It's just entertainment. It's a story line that never ends and even though there's a pre-set outcome, the consumers still don't know so it's still a surprise every time". That's paraphrased as I don't know what he said word for word. 

It made me look at it differently. I still don't watch it but I get it now. I could see how somebody would still follow it. 

No, not into reality shows either.  I like crime drama... Sherlock Holmes, Poirot, Law and Order and the like. 

[Robert Hall]

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

No, not into reality shows either.  I like crime drama... Sherlock Holmes, Poirot, Law and Order and the like. 

Me too... Sherlock, Luther, Bosch, True Detective, Mindhunter, The Bridge, Sandhamn Murders, Line of Duty, Midsomer Murders, Inspector Morse, Endeavour, Shetland, Hinterland, Trapped, etc... I esp. like British and Scandanavian crime dramas. 

[balthazar]

I like serial killers.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, Robert Hall said:

Me too... Sherlock, Luther, Bosch, True Detective, Mindhunter, The Bridge, Sandhamn Murders, Line of Duty, Midsomer Murders, Inspector Morse, Endeavour, Shetland, Hinterland, Trapped, etc... I esp. like British and Scandanavian crime dramas. 

Yeah, I subscribe to Britbox and I'm set for a while on shows to catch up on.  I'm only partway through Midsomer because each episode is so long. 

I really enjoyed Vera and I"m just about to finish Elementary. 

Just now, balthazar said:

I like serial killers.

[Robert Hall]

4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Yeah, I subscribe to Britbox and I'm set for a while on shows to catch up on.  I'm only partway through Midsomer because each episode is so long. 

I really enjoyed Vera and I"m just about to finish Elementary. 

I liked Vera.   Speaking of serial killers, I just watched Mindhunter --a good serial killer drama, based on the real life FBI Behavioral Science Unit work of John Douglas and Robert Ressler in the '70s-80s...lots of good period cars in it.   Also watched 'The Fall' which started out ok, but got preposterous over 3 seasons of Gillian Anderson tracking the same serial killer around Belfast...

Between Acorn, Britbox and MhZ I have plenty of import dramas to watch..

Edited September 20, 2019 by Robert Hall

[USA-1]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

You must have never watched WWF/WWE back when The Rock was heavily involved in the late 90's-2000's.

To answer your question, "a foolish or contemptible person". 

"Can you smell what The Rock is cooking?!!!"

[balthazar]

I get antsy watching TV and I hate commercials.

[Robert Hall]

16 minutes ago, USA-1 Vortec 6.2 said:

"Can you smell what The Rock is cooking?!!!"

About 20 years ago, I had a manager that was obsessed w/ WWF and was always quoting The Rock..was always going around saying 'Do you smell what I'm cooking'?   Guy was obnoxious as hell...

Edited September 20, 2019 by Robert Hall

[USA-1]

Have you driven a newer Cadillac? I have owned a 2013 CTS Coupe that I bought in 2015 and it was a great car that was quick and handled very well and definitely compared to a Mercedes at the time. 2008 was a huge jump in quality and performance for Cadillac with the second gen. CTS then CTS-V in 2009 and 2014 and newer Cadillac's are on par or better in some ways than Mercedes. Mercedes is another manf. resting on their laurels, the quality and reliability has taken a big hit. I have a neighbor who is a mechanic for a local MB dealer and he says they are buried back in the shop with recalls and other repairs. MB QC dept. is scrambling at the moment. Now to compare a Lincoln to a Mercedes? Yes, you're right Mercedes whoops them.

[ccap41]

In what ways does Cadillac have an edge on Mercedes? I'm counting all of zero, outside of the consumer truck market. 

[USA-1]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Nothing at GM can touch anything at Mercedes.They may have competed decades ago but Mercedes lineup whoops Cadillac, top to bottom. The only thing they aren't into is consumer pickup trucks and their attempt to re-badge a Nissan was $h!. They were smart to get out of that atrocity before too long. 

Cute use of the word "jabroni". I see you continue to be unoriginal. 

Have you driven a newer Cadillac? I have owned a 2013 CTS Coupe that I bought in 2015 and it was a great car that was quick and handled very well and definitely compared to a Mercedes at the time. 2008 was a huge jump in quality and performance for Cadillac with the second gen. CTS then CTS-V in 2009 and 2014 and newer Cadillac's are on par or better in some ways than Mercedes. Mercedes is another manf. resting on their laurels, the quality and reliability has taken a big hit. I have a neighbor who is a mechanic for a local MB dealer and he says they are buried back in the shop with recalls and other repairs. MB QC dept. is scrambling at the moment. Now to compare a Lincoln to a Mercedes? Yes, you're right Mercedes whoops them.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

In what ways does Cadillac have an edge on Mercedes? I'm counting all of zero, outside of the consumer truck market. 

Handling. The Alpha chassis is one of the best out there for it.  That's not a new thing either.  The first gen CTS-V would beat an M3 around a track even though it was M5 sized. 

[USA-1]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

In what ways does Cadillac have an edge on Mercedes? I'm counting all of zero, outside of the consumer truck market. 

You said they don't compare, which they definitely do. Both are long standing luxury marques, both build sedans and coupes with standard and performance versions and SUV's/CUV's although nothing Mercedes builds can touch the Escalade and probably never will. Lets check the Recall list for both as well.

So tell me what edge you think Mercedes has on Cadillac, I'm intrigued.