August 2019: Toyota North America

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

[surreal1272]

It is simply astounding that the RAV4 is putting out full size pick up type numbers. 

[Drew Dowdell]

31 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

It is simply astounding that the RAV4 is putting out full size pick up type numbers. 

Almost 50k a month of those things... and they aren't even that great.

[Robert Hall]

37 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

It is simply astounding that the RAV4 is putting out full size pick up type numbers. 

It's outselling the Tacoma and Tundra combined, and ahead of the Camry and Corolla.. wowza

[A Horse With No Name]

Camry sill selling well in a sea of under performing sedans. 

[Drew Dowdell]

59 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Camry sill selling well in a sea of under performing sedans. 

One of only two six-cylinder mid-sizers left. 

[frogger]

Hybrid RAV4 sold at around 150k a year clip.

 

[G. David Felt]

17 minutes ago, frogger said:

Hybrid RAV4 sold at around 150k a year clip.

 

Such an underwhelming product, true Lemming mobile.

[A Horse With No Name]

13 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

One of only two six-cylinder mid-sizers left. 

I like it better than most other cars in its class, actually. 

 

[ykX]

14 hours ago, dfelt said:

Such an underwhelming product, true Lemming mobile.

How is it underwhelming?  

It seems it compares very favorably against the rest of the segment.

According to fuelly, people seem to get around 35mpg average,

[frogger]

Seems like the non hybrid RAV4 is mostly criticized for its powertrain/noise.

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, ykX said:

How is it underwhelming?  

It seems it compares very favorably against the rest of the segment.

According to fuelly, people seem to get around 35mpg average,

To me there is nothing inspiring about Toyota's product line. From Style to interior layout, materials used, just a lemming mobile that does nothing to make me want to buy. This is built for those that just want to fit in and follow everyone else.

Yes that is not a bad thing from a business that is all about making billions, but I like something that makes more of a statement. Hence the reason I own an AWD Trailblazer SS, Durango RT, Hummer, Escalade ESV Platinum, etc. I choose my own path and that is not to follow the herd.

[ykX]

14 minutes ago, dfelt said:

To me there is nothing inspiring about Toyota's product line. From Style to interior layout, materials used, just a lemming mobile that does nothing to make me want to buy. This is built for those that just want to fit in and follow everyone else.

Really?  And current Chevrolet vehicles for example are much different?

To me this looks as bland and uninspired as anything, generic as they come

At least Toyota tried to put some style into the new RAV4

 

[Drew Dowdell]

It is okay for me to not like either?

[ccap41]

At least over at Toyota you can get your Rav4 with off-roady goodness or with a hybrid powertrain. 

[Robert Hall]

The Rav4 has some very Jeep styling cues in the squared off wheel wells w/ raised black edging and the overall profile.  It looks pretty good for the segment.  Though the CR-V has sexier taillights. 

[ykX]

24 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

The Rav4 has some very Jeep styling cues in the squared off wheel wells w/ raised black edging and the overall profile.  It looks pretty good for the segment.  Though the CR-V has sexier taillights. 

From the rear they look almost identical

[A Horse With No Name]

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It is okay for me to not like either?

I certainly don't....so we are in the same boat...

 

[frogger]

Like the look of the two tone Trail/Adventure trim version

[G. David Felt]

4 hours ago, ykX said:

Really?  And current Chevrolet vehicles for example are much different?

To me this looks as bland and uninspired as anything, generic as they come

At least Toyota tried to put some style into the new RAV4

 

Sadly, NOTHING Chevrolet builds right now inspires me to want to own something except one which I have never fit into as an adult. The Corvette is the only thing I still Love, Wish Corvette had a Performance SUV as I would go for that, but the current style of all their auto's SUCK excluding the corvette which as I stated, I CANNOT FIT INTO! ?

[Drew Dowdell]

The only things at Chevy I really like and would put in my hypothetically flat driveway are Corvette, Suburban, Tahoe, and Volt. 

[balthazar]

RAV 4 is a stylistic disaster. Wheelwell cladding cut short from reaching the rockers is comical, and the front looks like broken shale; too jagged. Dint find the exaggerated underbite attractive either. 

[smk4565]

The RAV4 is better than most small crossovers, they also market it a fair amount, have Toyota reputation and I bet they have awesome lease deals due to the Toyota resale value.   If there was better competition they might take some sales from it.  I don't like the RAV4, but it is better value than the others in the segment.

 

Corolla, Camry and Avalon all up, so cars aren't dead yet, at least not at Toyota who is probably capitalizing on Ford and Chevy not making sedans.

[G. David Felt]

Current Deals on this ugly little CUV in the PNW.

[balthazar]

26 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Corolla, Camry and Avalon all up, so cars aren't dead yet,

corolla & camry are dead flat for the year, and avalon is down 16%. Treading water.

Edited September 7, 2019 by balthazar

[A Horse With No Name]

6 hours ago, balthazar said:

RAV 4 is a stylistic disaster. Wheelwell cladding cut short from reaching the rockers is comical, and the front looks like broken shale; too jagged. Dint find the exaggerated underbite attractive either. 

RAV 4 is a stylistic disaster, but the 4 runner has a huge following and enormous resale. 

4 Runner is the only thing they build, other than Supra, that I would really want to own. 

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

RAV 4 is a stylistic disaster, but the 4 runner has a huge following and enormous resale. 

4 Runner is the only thing they build, other than Supra, that I would really want to own. 

The New Supera is a Nightmare of style. That would be a Hard Pass Ghost Rider!

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

The New Supera is a Nightmare of style. That would be a Hard Pass Ghost Rider!

I actually kind of like it...

[G. David Felt]

8 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I actually kind of like it...

Glad you do, that at least means that some diverse style is being made to appeal to folks.

[balthazar]

9 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

4 Runner is the only thing they build, other than Supra, that I would really want to own. 

I would never own a toyoter, but at least the 4Runner I find palatable in looks. RAV4 is horribly formed tho.

[Robert Hall]

The 4Runner is quite capable off-road, but is a decade old now and the styling is rather homely, IMO.

[balthazar]

Homely but palatable. For a toyoter.

[surreal1272]

On 9/6/2019 at 9:50 AM, dfelt said:

To me there is nothing inspiring about Toyota's product line. From Style to interior layout, materials used, just a lemming mobile that does nothing to make me want to buy. This is built for those that just want to fit in and follow everyone else.

Yes that is not a bad thing from a business that is all about making billions, but I like something that makes more of a statement. Hence the reason I own an AWD Trailblazer SS, Durango RT, Hummer, Escalade ESV Platinum, etc. I choose my own path and that is not to follow the herd.

I think it’s only fair to point out that those SUVs you mention were part of the lemming herd 10-15 years ago (the everything SUV craze). Just sayin’.

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

The 4Runner is quite capable off-road, but is a decade old now and the styling is rather homely, IMO.

And I would still take it over any SUV or wannabe SUV out there today. Absolutely bulletproof. 

17 hours ago, dfelt said:

Current Deals on this ugly little CUV in the PNW.

Which falls in line with the competition while managing to outsell said competition. I get the hate for it but clearly Toyota is doing something right here. 

[G. David Felt]

@surreal1272 I get the point you making, yet keep in mind the Trailblazer SS was limited production so not the millions of lemming trailblazers that were built. It is wider far more custom since it is an SUV body on a Corvette. 

Platinum ESV also were not that common in 2006 compared to all the other standard non esv Escalades.

Hummer got a bad rap by the eco nuts, but while they were a in your face SUV, you still did not see many and even today, very rare to find them.

Durango was a mass produced SUV, but most people did not know that the RT in 2000 was a limited production AWD, only AWD Durango at that time with the big 5.9L V8. 

THat is the difference is that yes those names have plenty of mass produced versions, but there were specific trim levels that were limited or people for the most part did not buy due to MPG / Price.

To me my friend, those are far rarer than the lemmings auto's of the era I bought them in.

[surreal1272]

53 minutes ago, dfelt said:

@surreal1272 I get the point you making, yet keep in mind the Trailblazer SS was limited production so not the millions of lemming trailblazers that were built. It is wider far more custom since it is an SUV body on a Corvette. 

Platinum ESV also were not that common in 2006 compared to all the other standard non esv Escalades.

Hummer got a bad rap by the eco nuts, but while they were a in your face SUV, you still did not see many and even today, very rare to find them.

Durango was a mass produced SUV, but most people did not know that the RT in 2000 was a limited production AWD, only AWD Durango at that time with the big 5.9L V8. 

THat is the difference is that yes those names have plenty of mass produced versions, but there were specific trim levels that were limited or people for the most part did not buy due to MPG / Price.

To me my friend, those are far rarer than the lemmings auto's of the era I bought them in.

Those being limited trim models are irrelevant. They were all part of the same craze of getting the biggest gas hogging SUV out there until gas went through the roof. Just a different breed of lemmings IMO. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

Ford, Chevy and FCA are giving up on sedans to focus just on crossovers, and yet the  RAV4 is dominating them all.   I think they are in dangerous territory when you pull out of a lot of segments to focus on SUV and pickups and it is only a matter of time before the Asians take all the SUV market too just like they did cars.

 

[daves87rs]

Not a fan of the RAV 4, it just looks wonky. It looks like a Jeep  Cherokee strung out on meth. The Ford Escape does’t look much better.

The only two I find decent are the Plain Jane Nox/Terrian and the CRV, along the Jeep......

 

 

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Ford, Chevy and FCA are giving up on sedans to focus just on crossovers, and yet the  RAV4 is dominating them all.   I think they are in dangerous territory when you pull out of a lot of segments to focus on SUV and pickups and it is only a matter of time before the Asians take all the SUV market too just like they did cars.

If the Big Two (plus FCA) "focus" on SUVs, how are the Asians 'going to take the SUV market'?
Seems much more likely they'll lose market share.

Edited September 8, 2019 by balthazar

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

If the Big Two (plus FCA) "focus" on SUVs, how are the Asians 'going to take the SUV market'?
Seems much more likely they'll lose market share.

I mean Ford is going all in on SUVs and GM is going pretty hard there too, but I could see Ford and GM cutting stuff like Escape, Ecosport, Traxx and Equinox when they can't compete with the Asians, same way they cut minivans and sedans when they couldn't compete with the Asians.  

Ford and GM can "focus" on SUVs, doesn't mean they will build good ones.  They didn't build good sedans, they don't build good crossovers  now with the exception of the Explorer/Aviator seem to be on point.  And the body on frame trucks don't have any outside competition.

[balthazar]

toyoter/nissan hasn't cut their tundra/titan when they failed to compete with the Americans.
And cut models don't automatically mean they 'don't compete'. Did Mercedes cut the 300SL because it 'didn't compete' with the Corvette?

But by your specific claim; if Ford & GM focus on CUVs / SUVs, they're not going to cut a number of CUV / SUV segments out. I mean, that's counter-intuitive on your part (despite your obvious desire to see all American brands completely discontinued).

[smk4565]

I think weak brands that build lousy product should be discontinued.  If GM and Ford put out class leading product then there is no problem.  But their crossovers are no more competitive than the Cruze, Focus, Fusion, Impala, etc that all got discontinued.  

Lincoln seems to be trying, we’ll see how they do.

[balthazar]

Buh-by Range Rover!! 

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think weak brands that build lousy product should be discontinued.  If GM and Ford put out class leading product then there is no problem.  But their crossovers are no more competitive than the Cruze, Focus, Fusion, Impala, etc that all got discontinued.  

Lincoln seems to be trying, we’ll see how they do.

Then that would remove 1/3rd of MB product line since they have many products that do not compete except as a badge snob.

[A Horse With No Name]

21 hours ago, balthazar said:

Buh-by Range Rover!! 

Sadly people will continue to spend big bucks for these, they have a cult following just like the 4 runner. 

[Drew Dowdell]

On 9/7/2019 at 8:35 PM, smk4565 said:

Ford, Chevy and FCA are giving up on sedans to focus just on crossovers, and yet the  RAV4 is dominating them all.   I think they are in dangerous territory when you pull out of a lot of segments to focus on SUV and pickups and it is only a matter of time before the Asians take all the SUV market too just like they did cars.

 

But they're not giving up on sedans entirely. Cruze is still in production south of the border.  Almost all of Ford's car lineup is still available in Europe and China... heck they still make a next generation Taurus for China.  If GM needs to, the Cruze can be imported from south America tomorrow.