Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[G. David Felt]

Very cool as the Dodge video from 2021 EV show has brought us what some see as the next AWD Charger BEV.

I am liking the modern retro look on this Charger.

Seems Mopar is pushing their level 2 charger now.

New Mopar At-Home Plug-In Wall Chargers Will Give You Full Charge in Less Than Two Hours - autoevolution

[balthazar]

They should keep doing evolutions of the current series rather than shitcanning it all because the motive power changes. That’s a lot of equity to throw away…

[oldshurst442]

 

I had time to digest the rendering. Not sure if its straight from Dodge or its fan-made but I would like to confirm the upvote that I gave to Balthy for saying that Dodge should evolve the Charger (and Challenger) in looks rather than just change it up completely JUST because the motive power is changing.  Like he said, too much equity to piss away if they change it up.

I could go for a complete change if and only if a new design language STILL says Dodge muscle machine.  That rendering tells no tales of mythical MOPAR madness. Its unconvincing as MOPAR muscle car  And  to make sure you know its electrical, EV is written on it...    

That right there is a fatal flaw in my opinion.   As per the video, Dodge is NOT to produce electric vehicles but to continue to build American muscle...  EV shoudnt be written ANYWHERE on it and the design should  have a more convincing Dodge identity to it if they decide to change the design language.

I understand the grill  is to emulate a '70 Charger grill

 

And I guess it could work.  The rest of the design just seems like your run-of-the mill  sketch rendering.  Its true that its just a single sketch and the side profile is not even showcased, so Ill just end my rant right here. 

 

[balthazar]

I have little doubt that in the long run, Stellantis will  F up Chrysler & Dodge, and just shrug about it.

And 1000% agree on the cheesy 'EV" badge- OEMs have to move past this 'trendy pandering' BS.

[oldshurst442]

Although I wrote about my issue with the EV written on that rendering as a Dodge muscle car, I will agree that all OEMs have to move past the EV pandering. It is BS.  

That includes the names.  Special naming schemes dedicated to an EV line of models like Mach-E or

Cadillac's  Lyriq and Celestiq or Mercedes' EQ naming scheme.    They all do it. Its all stupid.  Especially when they themselves have said they will end their ICE development to produce EVs.   

Society and they (OEMs) have moved on from the cutesy 1st phase of EVs.  If EVs are to be the norm, lets actually MAKE EVs the norm...  

 

[oldshurst442]

Ill call out Tesla as well.  

Spelling out S 3 X Y was fun.  But the year spells out 2022.  We are no longer in 2017...

[oldshurst442]

I have to revisit my opinion on Electra.  Which I may (or may not) course correct with my opinion on.  

I didnt mind Buick using their past name Electra on a future EV product.  Now, Im not so sure anymore.

Is it pandering for Buick to reuse this name?  

I have to think it is pandering.  Buick retired this name because it no longer meant anything to the American public. Buick wanted to move away from it because it was a name from a bygone era.  Buick wanted to reinvent itself and Electra the car and the brand no longer fit with the then future.  

Although it is a no brainer to use it for an EV,  Buick's position in the market place has only gotten worse since Electra was last used and its brand perception today is worse off as it seems there IS no brand perception going forward.  At least in 1997, Buick was an old fogey brand.  Today, Buick it seem is nobody's brand... 

Therefore I dont think Electra will benefit Buick's image going forward with an EV.    Its best that Buick try with another name.  They should keep what they have now with Encore, Enclave and Envision since none of those names are offensive to anybody and the vehicles they represent are good vehicles if not memorable and invent a new name for a 4rth model.  

Riviera should make a comeback tho. But it better be a HALO car and it better be engineered properly to represent Buick's REAL qualities.    Quiet, classy luxury that is just above understated and just below arrogant (Cadillac) that gets noticed everywhere it goes.  

 

[balthazar]

Electra (1959) wasn't 'from a bygone era' in '69, or '79, or '89 tho.
There was no problem with the name itself, but Buick utilized the top trim level name to replace it when the model was redesigned for '91.

[balthazar]

It's been whisper quiet on the Atlis front. Quite a while ago they showed this concept off, spouted some lofty claim numbers with it.  At least it looked fairly 'butch' [unlike the wheel chock Tesla] and had a usable bed [unlike the wheel chock Tesla]. 

 

But in googling it the other day, I found this 2021 image, and it was captioned 'redesigned'. Uh-oh. 

 

If true, and serious, wave goo-by to the Atlis, but at least it will have company in the EV scrap bin with Workhorse and Bolinger.  These upstarts NEED to realize that styling HAS to go hand-in-hand with functionality in trucks.

Edited January 22, 2022 by balthazar

[surreal1272]

I find first hand experience and facts more helpful than ignorance and unwarranted hysteria. 

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/tesla-driver-details-survived-14-132951082.html

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

I find first hand experience and facts more helpful than ignorance and unwarranted hysteria. 

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/tesla-driver-details-survived-14-132951082.html

This is a perfect example of how technology is helping to make a better quality of life over old ways of doing things. This is why Human Society must evolve. Better for all IMHO.

[G. David Felt]

Seems that Foxconn bought at the end of 2021 Lordstown EV Plant in Lordstown, Ohio. As such, with the purchase came an agreement to produce the Lordstown Endurance Pickup truck with Deliveries to begin in Q3 2022.

Foxconn chairman predicts exceptional Q1 but challenging 2022 - Nikkei Asia

Lordstown Endurance electric pickups will be delivered in 2022, claims Foxconn chairman (greencarreports.com)

Seems Foxconn will also produce 3 other BEVs at this plant for sale in North America.

Seems this truck might get to market after all and before Tesla.

[G. David Felt]

Interesting Drag race between two electric power cars.

Race #1

• Lucid Air DE Performance (92% SOC)
• Tesla Model S Plaid (92% SOC) - win
  0-60 mph: 2.98 s
  60-130 mph: 4.70 s
  100-150 mph: 4.69 s
  1/4 mile: 9.83 s @150.59 mph

Race #2

• Lucid Air DE Performance - win
• Tesla Model S Plaid (Launch Mode not used)
  0-60 mph: 3.02 s
  60-130 mph: 5.05 s
  1/4 mile: 10.21 s @125.64 mph

Race #3

• Lucid Air DE Performance
• Tesla Model S Plaid - win
  0-60 mph: 2.56 s
  60-130 mph: 4.98 s
  1/4 mile: 9.67 s @146.02 mph

Race #4: Roll race at 25 mph (40 km/h)

• Lucid Air DE Performance:
• Tesla Model S Plaid - win

Watch Lucid Air Dream Edition P Vs Tesla Model S Plaid Drag Races (insideevs.com)

I am sure some will be excited for this brand, but meh by me, but seems 5 new BEVs in 2025 and pure BEV only by 2030.

Bentley announces 'Beyond100' sustainability strategy, investing nearly $3.4 billion to go all-electric by 2030, five new BEVs starting in 2025 - Electrek

[G. David Felt]

I just realized, today is Tesla Earnings Day and these 3 stories say what you want to watch for:

Tesla's Earnings Day Is Here. This Is the Real Number to Watch. | Barron's (barrons.com)

Earnings Preview: What To Expect From Tesla Today (forbes.com)

Tesla Earnings Today: 1 Key Metric to Watch Closely | The Motley Fool

[G. David Felt]

More news as it seems Stellantis is out Trademarking Avenger as an BEV in various countries. Seems an EV Muscle car maybe according to this story and the screen captures of the trademarks.

Dodge Avenger Returning As Electric Muscle Car? | CarBuzz

[G. David Felt]

Interesting short read on the top 7 companies that are leading the Solid-State battery race.

7 Top Solid-state Battery Companies 2022 – Advanced Investing for Beginners (ai4beginners.com)

[balthazar]

Reading about Kansas's approach to BEs'.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/kansas-build-repair-roads-without-230026436.html

Currently they are at 0.3% electric vehicles in KS, but of course 'Protect the Revenue Streams' thinking is having Gov't scrabble around on ways to bill consumers more.
BE current registration fees are $100 (IC is $39 under 4500 lbs), and there's a bill in circulation to tax BE owners by the kW hour used from charging stations.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Reading about Kansas's approach to BEs'.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/kansas-build-repair-roads-without-230026436.html

Currently they are at 0.3% electric vehicles in KS, but of course 'Protect the Revenue Streams' thinking is having Gov't scrabble around on ways to bill consumers more.
BE current registration fees are $100 (IC is $39 under 4500 lbs), and there's a bill in circulation to tax BE owners by the kW hour used from charging stations.

Never saw a politician that would ever stop a tax revenue that would take away from their ability to spend. Pathetic.

[balthazar]

I'm sure the consumer planning their next/future purchase would appreciate knowing the 'bottom line' WRT switching over. 
'No oil changes / no gas' is obviously pushed hard, but you almost never hear of the 'hidden' price increases to the consumer with BEs.  Problem is -esp on the state level- a LOT more of that is coming like a tidal wave.

DAVID- have you solicited an insurance quote yet for a Rivian, and if so; how does it compare to something similar?  '22 F-150 Platinum starts 10 grand less- don't know if that'd be considered a comp.

[Drew Dowdell]

On 1/9/2022 at 1:11 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Its just business.  And the right to DO business in a free market economy.

Im a business owner....

Some of the market adjustment due to short supply is manufactured. What I mean by that is that some sectors, dealerships included, are intentionally holding back inventory so as to force prices up. Enough companies get on the bandwagon and they can manipulate an entire sector.  It happened quite visibly with lumber in the last 18 months and I suspect it is happening with some vehicles as well (though certain models like Bronco or Lightning are genuinely in short supply).

It’s hard to call it price fixing because there is no written or verbal  communication between the companies, but every RAV-4 Prime that sells for $40k over sticker sends a message to all surrounding dealers.

55 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I'm sure the consumer planning their next/future purchase would appreciate knowing the 'bottom line' WRT switching over. 
'No oil changes / no gas' is obviously pushed hard, but you almost never hear of the 'hidden' price increases to the consumer with BEs.  Problem is -esp on the state level- a LOT more of that is coming like a tidal wave.

DAVID- have you solicited an insurance quote yet for a Rivian, and if so; how does it compare to something similar?  '22 F-150 Platinum starts 10 grand less- don't know if that'd be considered a comp.

I’m on a Rivian group and several new owners are reporting struggles with their insurance companies because Rivian is too new for the actuary to rate and price. It’s borderline impossible to replace one with the same vehicle right now because the wait is currently years. Rivian is offering insurance to buyers, but I don’t know if the price is competitive.

[balthazar]

I'm surprised that OEMs are starting to offer insurance, tho I suppose there's nothing preventing such. It feels like there'd be a conflict of interest, but who knows.

[Drew Dowdell]

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I'm surprised that OEMs are starting to offer insurance, tho I suppose there's nothing preventing such. It feels like there'd be a conflict of interest, but who knows.

The actual underwriting is done by a major insurance firm. The OEMs just slap their name on it. Just like how Chrysler Financial is actually Santander Bank.

[balthazar]

Arizona levies registration fees based on the base MSRP of a vehicle.
A $67,500 Rivian will cost you $1134 the first year. It declines every year, but on that MSRP, 10 years of ownership will cost you $5,789 just for license plates.

This applies to all vehicles, the slight difference being that most BE vehicles have above average starting MSRPs. 
I think that means a -say- GMC Sierra Denali 1500 ($56,800 : $954) would go off of the base Sierra's MSRP ($32,300 : $542).

Edited January 31, 2022 by balthazar

[Drew Dowdell]

11 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Arizona levies registration fees based on the base MSRP of a vehicle.
A $67,500 Rivian will cost you $1134 the first year. It declines every year, but on that MSRP, 10 years of ownership will cost you $5,789 just for license plates.

This applies to all vehicles, the slight difference being that most BE vehicles have above average starting MSRPs. 
I think that means a -say- GMC Sierra Denali 1500 ($56,800 : $954) would go off of the base Sierra's MSRP ($32,300 : $542).

Hmm... I wonder if that is a cheat code for the Silverado EV.

[ccap41]

Missouri is similar in that they base off of vehicle value. I have no clue how the calculation works, as I've never needed to know. 

[G. David Felt]

Very cool review of the KIA EV6. Good details on both the tech and the actual auto to drive, ride in and layout. Seems Kia is going with the same big screen that Cadillac is doing.

I Drove A Preproduction Kia EV6, The First Electric Kia Built On The 'Revolutionary' E-GMP Platform. Here's What I Thought (jalopnik.com)

[balthazar]

That flat out sucks. NJ tried to do that; years ago they sent a letter to a co-worker who they thought under-reported her purchase price. I wrote them a letter back on her behalf stating basically 'prove it' - never heard another word. Then; it was akin to fishing. 

IMO, you cannot charge a sales tax on money not paid, and book value is irrelevant.  I believe it's the same scenario, but I haven't registered a non-new / almost new vehicle in a long time (that wasn't historic).

[G. David Felt]

44 minutes ago, balthazar said:

That flat out sucks. NJ tried to do that; years ago they sent a letter to a co-worker who they thought under-reported her purchase price. I wrote them a letter back on her behalf stating basically 'prove it' - never heard another word. Then; it was akin to fishing. 

IMO, you cannot charge a sales tax on money not paid, and book value is irrelevant.  I believe it's the same scenario, but I haven't registered a non-new / almost new vehicle in a long time (that wasn't historic).

This does bring up the interesting pickle of doing like what I am going to do. Convert my 1994 GMC SLE Suburban from ICE to EV and with a much lower book value, I get modern powertrain with low book value, so licensing is a minimal cost.

[balthazar]

You stated you registration fee- it wasn't bad IIRC - have you heard WA it revamping that to a 'value-based' structure?
'cause otherwise, your reg should be the same, no? Do you have annual vehicle inspection there? 

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

You stated you registration fee- it wasn't bad IIRC - have you heard WA it revamping that to a 'value-based' structure?
'cause otherwise, your reg should be the same, no? Do you have annual vehicle inspection there? 

Washington does not charge sales tax on any EV purchased even a 6 figure one. There is currently a yearly $110 fee on top of normal auto registration that you have to pay since you're not paying gas tax. We have no annual inspection here, but I would love them to stop the yearly emission testing of all auto's and replace it with a safety inspection as the number of autos on the road missing critical safety gear, Head lights, Taillights, working lights, bumpers, etc. is terrible IMHO.

Washington just finished a 2-year run of 36,000 people who were part of a beta test of mileage tax versus gas tax. In this case, they were credited for their gas tax they paid and had to pay for the miles they drove. This is based on a various amount per mile from 1 cent to 5 cents.

From what I read locally, those that drive so little per year, loved it as they paid less. Road Warriors who drive over 15,000 miles a year ended up paying more unless you were in one of the lowest costs per mile groups.

Will be interesting to see how Washington changes and if they go with a mileage tax like Oregon is doing for BEVs. Gas tax for ICE, Mileage tax for BEVs and Hybrids.

[balthazar]

42 minutes ago, David said:

There is currently a yearly $110 fee on top of normal auto registration that you have to pay since you're not paying gas tax.

WA State gas tax is 49.4 cents/gal.  12,000 miles/year, divided by 25 MPG = 480 gallons.... x .494 cents = $237.  With 2.9 million registered vehicles, that'd compute to $372 million dollars lost for road maintenance.

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

WA State gas tax is 49.4 cents/gal.  12,000 miles/year, divided by 25 MPG = 480 gallons.... x .494 cents = $237.  With 2.9 million registered vehicles, that'd compute to $372 million dollars lost for road maintenance.

Ya kinda left off some of the fuel tax as that is state only and you also have the federal .184 cents tax per gallon on that cost also. Each time I fuel up I have to pay Federal on top of State. State Tax .45 cents + Federal Tax .184 cents = .634 cents per gallon tax.

I filled up the Escalade and SS today, total paid was $115.46 

Whereas if I charge at home here @ 6 cents per kW the SS would cost me $6 for the same Gas range and the Escalade would cost me $10. So, my cost of fueling is $16 from home. Yes, no taxes paid to support the roads, so a different way of charging to help cover road costs is needed. Yet the convenience and money savings are great.

Washington Gasoline and Fuel Taxes for 2022 (salestaxhandbook.com)

[balthazar]

Didn't leave it off, I was drawing a comparison to state registration fees and state gas tax.

[G. David Felt]

Rivian video showing all their drive modes. Pretty cool. Decent Truck and Tesla has NOTHING to compete with this.

Hey Tesla, you paying attention, this is what a real truck is and does.

 

[G. David Felt]

Seems the market is less than impressed with Tesla earnings call and lack of any new product production (Semi, CyberTruck, $25K Tesla, Roadster 2.0) So here comes Tesla showing off that out of Nevada where they make the battery packs and a production line is supposedly set up for building the Semi, a group of Semi's are charging.

Musk probably feels he can keep his rabid fans happy by showing that they are making some progress.

[G. David Felt]

Have to say I have never been a Van Fan overall, liked some of the 70's era tricked out vans, but I do like this interior on the VW ID.Buzz electric Van.

https://www.autoblog.com/2022/01/27/vw-id-buzz-interior-leaked-spy-photos/

[Robert Hall]

On 1/31/2022 at 10:25 AM, balthazar said:

Arizona levies registration fees based on the base MSRP of a vehicle.
A $67,500 Rivian will cost you $1134 the first year. It declines every year, but on that MSRP, 10 years of ownership will cost you $5,789 just for license plates. 

Yeah, IIRC Colorado is the same way.  My '00 Jeep was about $500 the first year then declining after that (there and in Arizona).  My '14 Jeep when I bought it as 3yr old CPO would have been $600 or so in AZ, but I got a 90 day tag and didn't register it there...registering it in Ohio has been a flat $65 or so every year since then.  I did pay AZ sales tax on the purchase, though. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

Very Cool Video to watch and I like the idea of the truck over a Tesla Power Wall.

 

[G. David Felt]

Seems GM has admitted they cannot be all things yet in the various markets for BEVs as such, they have started to sign Specialty Coach Builders to build Class 3 to 6 of medium duty vehicles as BEVs.

Lightning eMotors Joins with General Motors to Electrify Medium Duty Trucks - Lightning eMotors

Seems in addition to this that GM is moving forward with using Michelin Airless Tires on new auto's starting in 2024.

Michelin, GM Take the Air Out of Tires for Passenger Vehicles :: Michelin North America, Inc. (michelinmedia.com)

Michelin, GM Present Airless Tire Technology | General Motors

[G. David Felt]

Seems Nissan is planning to be BEV only by 2030 as they expand their common platform used by Renault, Nissan and Mitsubishi.

Renault, Nissan & Mitsubishi Motors announce common roadmap (nissannews.com)

This also seems to point to what some sites are saying is the first Japanese auto company to stop development on ICE platforms. Other than maintenance on the current portfolio for the US, the rest of the world will get BEVs only where Nissan sees a mix of BEV/ICE in the U.S. past 2030.

Nissan to end most development of new gasoline engines - Nikkei Asia

[G. David Felt]

This is so true and I do expect Ford and GM to take major market share from Tesla.

https://moneyandmarkets-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/moneyandmarkets.com/tesla-gm-ford-electric-vehicle-competition/amp/

[G. David Felt]

WOW 30% of auto's sold last month were electric.

Volvo Cars reports sales of 47,561 cars in January, share of electrified cars over 30 per cent - Volvo Cars Global Media Newsroom

[G. David Felt]

For those that like cars, Yes looking at @oldshurst442 and @ccap41 there are still some very interesting concepts that could, based on public opinion make it to production according to Stellantis. The release of the DS Concept car E-Tense. total output of 815 horsepower and 5,900 pound-feet of torque at the wheels and unlocks through-the-road all-wheel-drive 

DS E-TENSE PERFORMANCE: DRIVING FUTURE | DS Automobiles | Stellantis

Image album | DS Automobiles | Stellantis

Not sure how some of the other media sites got these pictures which do not appear on the Stellantis DS Media folder, but I like the style.

DS builds electric Formula E-powered concept to test new technologies (autoblog.com)

[riviera74]

14 hours ago, David said:

Seems in addition to this that GM is moving forward with using Michelin Airless Tires on new auto's starting in 2024.

Michelin, GM Take the Air Out of Tires for Passenger Vehicles :: Michelin North America, Inc. (michelinmedia.com)

Michelin, GM Present Airless Tire Technology | General Motors

Airless Tire Technology.  Does anyone remember run-flat tires from about ten years ago?  Those were bad and few actually sold.  WHY are they repeating the same mistakes?

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Airless Tire Technology.  Does anyone remember run-flat tires from about ten years ago?  Those were bad and few actually sold.  WHY are they repeating the same mistakes?

Gut tells me the ability to not have to deal with a flat tire is very desirable by appliance auto buyers.

I have to wonder how the balance will be when a section of tire filles up with dirt, mud, ice, snow, etc.

Can ya say Thump Thump Thump!

I totally get this technology for use in Forklifts, Tractors, etc. no high speed, consistent work area, but it will be interesting to see how it works on an actual auto that sits outside in the cold, freezing temps and gets frozen in a puddle of water.

[oldshurst442]

16 hours ago, David said:

For those that like cars, Yes looking at @oldshurst442 and @ccap41 there are still some very interesting concepts that could, based on public opinion make it to production according to Stellantis. The release of the DS Concept car E-Tense. total output of 815 horsepower and 5,900 pound-feet of torque at the wheels and unlocks through-the-road all-wheel-drive 

DS E-TENSE PERFORMANCE: DRIVING FUTURE | DS Automobiles | Stellantis

Image album | DS Automobiles | Stellantis

Not sure how some of the other media sites got these pictures which do not appear on the Stellantis DS Media folder, but I like the style.

DS builds electric Formula E-powered concept to test new technologies (autoblog.com)

 

E-Tense.      The styling is intense enough to certainly merit the name.   

Looks good enough for me to get excited for.

 

 

The rest of the performance stuff Ill just ignore for now.   

[riviera74]

3 hours ago, David said:

Gut tells me the ability to not have to deal with a flat tire is very desirable by appliance auto buyers.

I have to wonder how the balance will be when a section of tire filles up with dirt, mud, ice, snow, etc.

Can ya say Thump Thump Thump!

I totally get this technology for use in Forklifts, Tractors, etc. no high speed, consistent work area, but it will be interesting to see how it works on an actual auto that sits outside in the cold, freezing temps and gets frozen in a puddle of water.

Heavy equipment is fine.  Just NOT regular cars, please.

[oldshurst442]

^^^   So...am I to understand that technology to improve tires (for everyday, mundane trips to the depanneur) is not welcomed?  Tire tech shouldnt EVEN be a thing?   

I too, was skeptical about it, by I think Michelin, the world's largest and  LEADING tire maker for OVER 130 years, knows what they are doing and Im sure if Michelin is putting this tech forward then this tech is ready for prime time.

In my knowledge at least, Michelin hasnt had any product failures due poorly executed engineering or rushed launches. 

 

Run flats work well for the President.   Just to say...  

I know I know...  The Beast is not an everyday regular car and its duties are not an every day, regular thing either.  

Supercars, some of them, do use run flats, but I dont think this tweel thing are engineered for supercar duties either...

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

Watch; these tires will be like $450 a pop.

[oldshurst442]

LOL

Yup!!!   I wont be surprised if they are that expensive!!!