Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[surreal1272]

7 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Why are you laughing?

I’m laughing at your hypocrisy. You and restaurants like yours had a choice. Remember saying that over and over again? “Choice”? That is a result of the “free market”. 
 

That is all. You may now downvote this too. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by surreal1272

[oldshurst442]

Just now, surreal1272 said:

I’m laughing at your hypocrisy. You and restaurants like yours had a choice. Remember saying that over and over again? “Choice”? 
 

That is all. You may now downvote this too. 

The phoque are you talking about?

We are talking about greedy middlemen.  I gave you an example.  

All you do is laughy and downvote.    You downvoted Balthy's post because you have such a hard on for denying dealerships... 

His post made you look silly.

My post about Uber and Amazon with the explanations on why Uber is a leach of a middleman to YOU as a customer, to its "employees" that are NOT employees and to a ME as a business owner just about cements you guys have a very hypocritical and warped view about middlemen...

 

 

[Robert Hall]

Can’t compare food delivery and grocery delivery services to car dealers excessively marking up products.   Food delivery companies provide a service and a convenience.  I could go to a restaurant and get takeout, or go to the grocery and do curbside pickup, but I’ll pay a bit more for it delivered right to my door.  

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

I buy groceries from Whole Foods via Amazon and a from a couple local chains via Instacart.  Very efficient, and nice to have food delivered to my door…

That’s THREE SLEAZY MIDDLEMEN!!

[oldshurst442]

Support a direct to customer sales model to eliminate the middleman but also support a middleman to the middleman delivery service because those business practices are somehow better for the consumer.

PS:

I didnt know the wave of the future of a fast food hot dog joint was having UBER and DoorDash as a delivery service...

Restaurants like mine HAVE a choice.

And the choice NOT to lose money on a shytty deal is what I made.

And NO!  I havent LOST business because I dont have UBER EATS or DoorDash.   Its fast food hotdogs...  There IS no need to deliver those.   it will ALWAYS BE a money losing proposition to deliver those. Even more when a leach of a company asks 7% of MY charge as THEY were MY partner...

I however did spend thousands on breaking down walls and widening some parts to the restaurant to have a drive-through.  Best thing my (ex) partner and I have ever done with the business... 

 

[surreal1272]

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

That’s THREE SLEAZY MIDDLEMEN!!

Interesting that you are calling him out for hypocrisy but not the other poster who has wasted almost two pages now screaming about free market and customer choice yet he has a problem with those two concepts when it came knocking on his door. 
 

And that’s why I’m still laughing. 

[Robert Hall]

Note I didn’t say anything about fast food…I’ll go through the drive thru for Dunkin’s or McDs occasionally…for local restaurants, I like getting lunch or dinner delivered via the services when I’m not cooking.  Get a nice pasta, pad Thai or chicken briyani delivered, and drink some wine from Whole Foods.  Pretty convenient.  

[surreal1272]

Be careful @oldshurst442 .  You’re going to use up all those down votes, and all because you don’t seem to like the facts when they come to your door. 

[Robert Hall]

28 minutes ago, balthazar said:

That’s THREE SLEAZY MIDDLEMEN!!

You do realize Amazon owns Whole Foods? 

[balthazar]

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

You do realize Amazon owns Whole Foods? 

^ You don't think they run the same set of accounting ledgers, do you???

[surreal1272]

So about the alternative fuels and propulsion…

[balthazar]

32 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Interesting that you are calling him out for hypocrisy

So it IS hypocrisy then?? Kinda thought it looked like it. ?

4 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

So about the alternative fuels and propulsion…

I like all sorts of options here; someone give hydrogen a go... and someone get that peanut oil turbine working!

[oldshurst442]

32 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Be careful @oldshurst442 .  You’re going to use up all those down votes, and all because you don’t seem to like the facts when they come to your door. 

LOL

My facts are on the up and up.

Its you that has a weird outlook on middlemen. 

[Robert Hall]

25 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ You don't think they run the same set of accounting ledgers, do you???

No idea.  I’m a software engineer, not an accountant. 

[oldshurst442]

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

No idea.  I’m a software engineer, not an accountant. 

Should I laugh at that as how you laughed when I answered your question as to why I am defending delearships when I answered that I am a business owner?

To which Surreal really hasnt caught on and thinks I am being hypocritical on pointing out yours and his hypocrisy of the weird stance you both take on from really really sleazy middlemen such as Amazon and Uber.   

Contrary to what you and he thinks, 

I dont think Uber and Amazon shouldnt exist.  If there is a service that they provide and somebody is willing to hire their services, more power to them.

But there is a BIG difference in a CLEARLY marked sticker price for a price hike and a HIDDEN business tactic from ordinary people that makes Uber and especially Amazon billions of dollars of profit.   No cap on profit making.  But sleazy as phoque especially when Amazon and Uber  skirt their responsibilities regarding their employees and them paying their taxes.   

A dealership cant get away from not paying their employees a wage and they are faced with tax fraud if they dont pay their taxes.  Amazon literally does not pay taxes in all the countries they do business in, including the US of A...

 

 

[oldshurst442]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/amazon-had-to-pay-federal-income-taxes-for-the-first-time-since-2016.html

 

[surreal1272]

So how about those alternative fuels and propulsion? 

10 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

To which Surreal really hasnt caught on and thinks I am being hypocritical

I caught on 10000% because I know you’re being hypocritical. That’s the difference here. And btw, I will continue to laugh at the hypocrisy and especially after your little “your words are meaningless” remark. Save the talking down for someone else next time. I stand by everything I have said here. 

[oldshurst442]

Sure, Canada's laws allow for this to happen. Still sleazy as phoque.   

But you can complain that a clearly written price hike is scummy and greedy. Sure.  As far as I know, and I havent heard or seen otherwise, I havent seen ANY dealership NOT respect its legal obligations towards its employees and the State, Province or country they do business in.    

I guess I view those things differently than either of you...

Now that this conversation has run its course, lets actually talk about Alternative fuels...

 

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/07/05/canadas-laws-allow-uber-lyft-to-avoid-paying-as-much-as-135m-a-year-in-taxes-says-advocacy-group.html

 

Ride-hailing giants Uber and Lyft could be avoiding up to $135 million in Canadian taxes each year by classifying their drivers as contract workers instead of employees and using other legal tactics to reduce their financial obligations, according to a new report.

The report, which was published by the progressive non-profit advocacy group Canadians for Tax Fairness (C4TF) and shared exclusively with the Star ahead of its release Monday, concluded it’s impossible to know for certain how much the companies pay because of a lack of transparency in the Canadian tax system.

But using publicly available data, the organization estimates the two companies avoid up to $81 million in payroll taxes as a result of their controversial decision to categorize drivers as independent contractors.

 

Additionally, C4TF estimates the firms’ federal and provincial corporate income tax obligations total about $54 million each year, but it’s not clear how much of that amount they pay, if any, because companies operating internationally are not required to publicly report earnings or tax payments on a country-by-country basis, allowing them to shift profits around the world to lessen their tax burden.

[balthazar]

32 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

No idea.  I’m a software engineer, not an accountant. 

Fair enough.
Then, perhaps... just perhaps... you may not be up on how businesses are run financially; w-would that be a possibility? IE: Manufacturers & franchises?

[oldshurst442]

8 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

So how about those alternative fuels and propulsion? 

I caught on 10000% because I know you’re being hypocritical. That’s the difference here. And btw, I will continue to laugh at the hypocrisy and especially after your little “your words are meaningless” remark. Save the talking down for someone else next time. I stand by everything I have said here. 

Your words ARE meaningless as you havent offered ANYTHING of substance...

Saying dealerships are greedy and just repeating that is SMK levels of delusions.  

Keep at it. 

And about the downvotes. Just repaying you in kindness...

[surreal1272]

9 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Your words ARE meaningless as you havent offered ANYTHING of substance...

Saying dealerships are greedy and just repeating that is SMK levels of delusions.  

Keep at it. 

And about the downvotes. Just repaying you in kindness...

And you clearly didn’t actually read a damn thing I said regarding choice and it wasn’t just about greed of dealerships, all the while you bitch about the greed of delivery services. Either go back and actually read what I said because I don’t give two $h!s about your votes one way or the other. Fact is your hypocrisy is right there for everyone to see and that’s good enough for me. 

11 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Keep at it. 

And WTF is that so supposed to mean anyway? Just more babble or an empty threat? Which one?

12 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

And about the downvotes. Just repaying you in kindness

The first down vote was from you but hey, don’t let that little fact get in the way of more meaningless words from you. Maybe take up two more pages with this nonsense. 

[oldshurst442]

44 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

And you clearly didn’t actually read a damn thing I said regarding choice

You DO have a choice.  SEVERAL.

#1 choice:  Haggle price and price hike.  Like usual when buying from a dealership. 

#2 choice.  Do NOT buy from that dealership if the dealership refused YOUR offer and counteroffer.  They have that right as YOU also. 

#3 Choice.  Go to another dealership. Repeat.  Haggle price and price hike.  If THAT fails, ask yourself why 2 dealerships refused to do business. If it didnt fail, you just bought a new car at a price that YOU deem fair...  Winner winner chicken dinner. 

#4 Choice if 2 dealerships refused to do business with you. You also have the right to NOT buy a new car.  Buy used. You will have to deal with a price hike there also as cars right about now are experiencing this craze.  Haggle price on used car. You will eventually find a car to suit your transportational and financial needs one way or other from one dealership or the next or from a private seller.   But the private seller will ALSO try to price gouge you.  Yeah...you are a believer in Toyoter reliability.  That private seller will up sell you how reliable a Camry is especially his since it was only driven on Sundays to church...   

Hey, you might have paid MORE than you wanted, but if YOU have exhausted all other avenues and to NOT find a seller of a car more in line as to what the prices were before Covid and the chip shortgage, maybe YOU have to ask yourself why that is...  Maybe its because it wasnt all greed? 

But, if you DID find a place where the price hike was waived off, hey, you just exercised YOUR right to buy a commodity to what YOU deem is right and fair.    

But, please refrain from believing that a business does NOT have the right to price its commodities as how they see fit.

Now...with Uber, they asked ME if  I wanted to join THEM.  

I did NOT go to them.

I exercised my right to tell them to phoque off!

I havent campaigned that they need to go  away.  They DO supply a service and a need. For a fee.  The fee is fair to what they charge the customer.  

What I dont find fair is what THEY want to as a fee for their service when it comes to MY end.  If a business agrees to that 5% or 7% or whatever THEY negotiate, GREAT!

But as when negotiations arise between two entities, there will be a winner and a loser on the money side of things.   And a small family business gets it in the ass as a small family restaurant cant afford its own car delivery service but needs it because the big corporate restaurant has partnered up with Uber.

Partnering up with Uber with a shytty deal and the small family restaurant LOSES money on that deal and its the restaurant that has to deal with the risks and expenses. 

The buying and preparing of the food. The paying of the bills.  Gas and electricity and payroll.  The employee insurances. The wear and tear  of the equipment.  The bloody wrapping and bags for take-out.   The mistake if the delivery driver made a delivery mistake and the restaurant owner has to redo the order...   Remember, the delivery driver is NOT the employee of the restaurant to say thaat its the restaurant's fault, yet if the driver phoques up, the restaurant has to deal with the mistake both with a redo of the order AND the reputation being sullied because the customer doesnt really give a shyte WHO made the mistake.  The customer only knows that he ordered from a certain restaurant and his ordered was flubbed.  Sure, there is a rating system where the customer rates the driver and the restaurant AND the OWNER of the restaurant ALSO has the option to rate the driver...but as an OWNER of a restaurant...I dont have the time to deal with a 3rd party contractor to deliver MY food to MY customer.   its a money loser  and a time waster for me, at MY restaurant...

Uber offers me what?  A delivery service for 7% of the price that I made for MY profits to cover MY expenses...

i have the RIGHT to refuse such shyte.

Uber doesnt have those risks.  I do. Its a smart business plan. But I see through the sleaziness...

Other family owned restaurants dont really have the choice to be leached off of Uber...   

So...when YOU say its all about the choices...

Yeah...I heard YOU loud and clear.

But you still wanna continue to shovel that shyte? 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by oldshurst442

[surreal1272]

And I’m out…

 

[oldshurst442]

7 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

And I’m out…

 

 

 

From your own link:

 

 

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/competition-matters/2014/04/who-decides-how-consumers-should-shop

 

Michael replied on Apr 25, 2014 12:22PM PERMALINK

The FTC did not write this. It is the sole opinion of 3 employees of the FTC. And if you think this is the best way to buy a car, go for it. Let me know how it works out when you're paying $1500 more than you needed to because the manufacturer won't negotiate. Also, let me know how you like those cars that are put out by narrow minded engineers that don't fit the real world because they've had no input from dealers in the real world who are listening to their customers.

 

And the link mentions Tesla. But Tesla has raised their prices ten fold since this shyte was wrttien By: Andy Gavil, Debbie Feinstein, and Marty Gaynor | Apr 24, 2014 11:00AM 

 

2014 is when this shyte has been written.   The Model S from Tesla has NEVER been discounted.  The Model S came to market in 2012.  10 years ago yet the car has NEVER been MORE expensive to buy...   

yeah...I see a great future for us consumers when we have to deal with a direct to consumer company such as Tesla when just software upgrades happen and a consumer has to pay MORE for a 10 year old model than when it first came out.  

 

THAT shyte you posted aint helped you one iota, buddy...

 

[ccap41]

12 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Interesting. I’ve heard all this talk about dealerships and their “fair market” practices yet here is Ford jumping in to make sure they continue to be “fair”. I was under the assumption that this was an accepted practice by folks who constantly tout the need for dealerships. I mean why would Ford have to take preemptive action if these dealers were being so honest about their pricing as it relates to “fair market” values?
 

(sarcasm wholly intended here for those who want to take this a certain way)

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ford-threatens-dealers-wont-send-171821933.html

I'm assuming I'm one of those "touting the need for dealerships" but I really don't think I'm in that boat. I've only been stating the "suggested" part of the price and that it's just supply and demand in a "free market". I don't exactly enjoy dealership experiences. I've never had a bad one but I've also never had a great one. 

If Ford is going to crack down on dealerships adjusting prices up, I'm all for that as well. I've never said i want dealerships to mark prices up, just that I understand WHY they're marking prices up. 

[Robert Hall]

Reality is complex, there are many things.  So much tedious blatherage in this thread, nothing more to say here..done with this thread...

[surreal1272]

36 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'm assuming I'm one of those "touting the need for dealerships" but I really don't think I'm in that boat.

You were not in that boat. You were pretty clear about your situation and stance with them. Like Robert said though, this thread is a mess and I made my case and I will stand by it. I’m just not going to waste anymore space on this than I already have though. 

[balthazar]

I, too, would never care to pay a 'market adjustment', but I recognize everyone is entitled to ask whatever they want to sell something they own.

[Cory Wolfe]

I have no interest in reading through all these posts just to add my point, so bear with me if these points are redundant. The last two pages or so have certainly been interesting, at least.

For me, what I personally hate is that if I go to a manufacturer's website, build a vehicle and find said vehicle in inventory (far-fetched these days, but...), I'm given a price for that vehicle. Until you contact the dealer directly or arrive at the lot, there's often no indication online there may be a markup. Worse yet, I could place a reservation/order and have a market adjustment added after the fact in order to take delivery.

The point to be made with a direct-to-consumer sales approach, at least for me, is transparency and consistency. When a manufacturer raises the price, it's clear and consistent. You're not placing an order and being surprised with a higher price upon delivery either.

The flip side is losing the ability to potentially haggle for a lower price (not likely in this market, but worth mentioning). This model also likely directs more profits towards the manufacturer, for better or worse.

Though not directly comparable, it's not far off from the strategy that has fueled CarMax's success in the used car market.

?

[balthazar]

Most of '21 and possibly going into '23, has been an anomaly.

I ordered/bought new in spring of '21 from GM; I was told there's no adjustment on ordered vehicles because technically the dealer never owns it; you are buying direct. I also got it about $9K under sticker.

Some dealers may not adhere to that, it's possible, tho it doesn't make any sense that would differ from what I described. One would have to look into it.
 

Edited January 10, 2022 by balthazar

[surreal1272]

59 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I was told there's no adjustment on ordered vehicles because technically the dealer never owns it; you are buying direct. I also got it about $9K under sticker.

So what you are saying it that buying direct was far cheaper and far more convenient than having to haggle with a dealer over phantom market adjustments. Interesting. 

[surreal1272]

In the same universe, there is exists these two scenarios with the same person regarding the same practice. See if you can spot the difference.
 

Dealerships and market adjustments=Good because of free market capitalism and customer choice. 
 

Uber and other delivery services expanding during a pandemic and giving customers that same choice under that SAME free market=Bad

 

That is both a double standard and hypocrisy. 
 

And I didn’t even need ten paragraphs and fifty thousand words in one post to explain it. Ain’t that some shyte?
 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

So what you are saying it that buying direct was far cheaper and far more convenient than having to haggle with a dealer over phantom market adjustments. Interesting. 

No... I'm saying the same thing I've been saying all along : the dealership model already offers you choice except you can actually SAVE money vs. MSRP. There's zero discount at Tesla- you pay full retail, always.... just don't delay- price is going up next month.

[balthazar]

 

- - - - -
IMO; 'UberEats' is fine if a customer wants to pay the delivery fee. It's also fine if a business doesn't want to. 
But what if 'UberEats' was mandatory for ALL restaurant take-out, with no choice? 

[surreal1272]

30 minutes ago, balthazar said:

except you can actually SAVE money vs. MSRP.

And what dealership is this because I’ve worked at three in two different states and the only time a vehicle is sold below MSRP is when it’s a carry over year model or otherwise something that has been on the lot for more than a year? Dealerships would go out of business if they made a habit out of that and you know it. 

25 minutes ago, balthazar said:

 

- - - - -
IMO; 'UberEats' is fine if a customer wants to pay the delivery fee. It's also fine if a business doesn't want to. 
But what if 'UberEats' was mandatory for ALL restaurant take-out, with no choice? 

You mean like how dealership lobbies have spent years trying to block direct sales in a lot of states thus taking away the choice for potential customers? That is making them the only choice for buyers which is the opposite of how a free market economy works. It’s almost like the dealerships want to make it mandatory that you have to “choose” them. Help it make sense Balth. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

35 minutes ago, balthazar said:

There's zero discount at Tesla- you pay full retail, always.... just don't delay- price is going up next month.

You’re exactly right about that. What is also true is that the prices would be even higher if they used the dealership model. See how that works yet?

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

And what dealership is this because I’ve worked at three in two different states and the only time a vehicle is sold below MSRP is when it’s a carry over year model or otherwise something that has been on the lot for more than a year? Dealerships would go out of business if they made a habit out of that and you know it. 

You mean like how dealership lobbies have spent years trying to block direct sales in a lot of states thus taking away the choice for potential customers? That is making them the only choice for buyers which is the opposite of how a free market economy works. It’s almost like the dealerships want to make it mandatory that you have to “choose” them. Help it make sense Balth. 

How can you have worked at 3 dealerships yet never seen a new vehicle sell below MSRP??? I’ll email you images of my truck’s sticker and the purchase contract if you want. Wife’s prior car bought new off lot was well under MSRP also. This can’t be a foreign idea to you, it just can’t be.

You are aware of retail MSRP vs. dealer invoice, yes? Holdback amounts, yes? OEMs discount to dealers in order not to take on 2500 locations & employees/costs; to avoid all the expenditures to have local stores on the their books. GM takes over all that dealer-level costs…. how do you figure vehicles prices are magically going to go DOWN?

[surreal1272]

27 minutes ago, balthazar said:

How can you have worked at 3 dealerships yet never seen a new vehicle sell below MSRP???

Did you actually read what I said? I never said that they didn’t do it ever but they do not make a damn habit out of it. Why? Because they would go out of business. I cannot make it any clearer than that. The fact is that everything you just mentioned there is part of their well known she’ll game with numbers. You think they offer vehicles at invoice out the goodness of their hearts? Sorry but again, you keep moving the bar to make up excuses for well known problems when dealing with your average dealership. 

31 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Wife’s prior car bought new off lot was well under MSRP also.

Again, see my above statement. That is not the norm and you know it. 
 

FFS. I said I was done with this nonsense and here I am getting dragged into the same endless back and forth with someone who will never see the other side of the coin and thinks that dealerships are necessary in the modern world. Well now, I am officially done. Conflate all you want. Move the damn bar all you want while ignoring the other facts that run counter to your narrative (like why dealerships fight tooth and nail to prohibit direct sales in states where companies like Tesla want to business). 
 

I’m out. 

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Did you actually read what I said? I never said that they didn’t do it ever but they do not make a damn habit out of it. Why? Because they would go out of business. I cannot make it any clearer than that.

You're incorrect, at least in my case. As much below MSRP as my truck was, I know nearly exactly what their profit was (and it was a profit). 

I nor my wife has ever paid MSRP. My brother has never paid MSRP. I don't believe my father has ever paid MSRP. There's ALWAYS (prior to summer '21) money off. It IS the norm in my experience and those I know.

I'll ask politely once more; you are aware of the difference between MSRP and dealer invoice, yes?
Dealers do not buy from OEMs @ MSRP.

[surreal1272]

8 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I'll ask politely once more; you are aware of the difference between MSRP and dealer invoice, yes?
Dealers do not buy from OEMs @ MSRP.

And I will politely tell that I know what both of them are and I also know the shell game behind it (for example, the invoice price is not what they actually paid for it). I am also politely declining any further discussion on this since you continue to cherry pick one part of a much bigger problem I have already covered in spades here.

Edited January 10, 2022 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

OK buddy- thanks.

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

I'll ask politely once more; you are aware of the difference between MSRP and dealer invoice, yes?
Dealers do not buy from OEMs @ MSRP.

Correct, Dealers do not pay MSRP, but they also do not pay the dealer invoice, this is a paper shell game as they get the OEM Hold back amount which on some auto's is a percentage and on others is a set amount that the OEM refunds to the dealer when said auto is sold.

I think at this point, everyone here knows the basics of the dealership, the pricing games played. 

The point that many here have stated is it would be nicer to have the option of buying direct from the OEM rather than a Dealer, pay their MSRP (Manufactured Suggested Retail Price) rather than haggle at the dealership.

Yes, in the past Pre-Pandemic and Chip shortage, one could haggle if they are prepared from the Dealer Invoice, taking in to account the hold back and order up the exact auto they want. Sadly most, 99.9999% of people do not have the ability to save, prep and plan to do this, as such they accept what is on the lot to buy/lease be it new or CPO.

Yes I started this multiple page discussion / debate due to my hatred for AMV 2nd stickers and what I perceive as a piss poor business practice that States should investigate as it had led to manipulation and what I believe is a rip off of the consumer.

I also will go on record that at this point, the dealership laws of states are not only out of date, but OEM auto companies need to drop saying MSRP and just go with MRP. Ensure there is a fair profit to the OEM and if they want dealers to survive, a proper profit for them and make it where they lose their dealership franchise if they do AMV stickers on new auto's.

I am willing to bet that the majority, more than 2/3rds of the U.S. population would be happy to see a new auto announced, pricing and know going to the OEM store, online or a franchise location that the price they saw is what they will pay.

I think this topic has played itself out and encourage us to move on with other topics.

IN ALTERNATIVE FUELS PROPULLSION RANDOM news:

Toyota will have their solid-state battery first out in the Prius Hybrid line, not in BEV @ 2025

Interesting talking points:

2:45 Toyota admits problems with hybrids

4:08 Toyota admits ineffective petrol cars, 10 MW. Imagine how many miles a BEV can do with 10 MW.

A question I would ask him is if Toyota is to be the Solid-State Battery leader, then why have they been lobbying so hard to halt the push of BEVs, Mileage standards and Pollution Standards?

[oldshurst442]

 

[balthazar]

I wish Lucid well. Has some interesting detailing. Not loving the exterior design, but it's not bad.

LOT of motor whine inside, eh?

[oldshurst442]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

LOT of motor whine inside, eh?

I noticed that as well.   And...I kinda like it.  It seems louder than Tesla's Model S but the whine itself seems to have more "presence" as well.   

I saw the movie Gattaca with my daughter a couple of days ago so I could help her with a school research paper she has.   And in the movie, there are some classic cars that are EVs and the noise these cars make in the movie strangely resembles the actual EV whine the Lucid makes.

 

 

 

[balthazar]

It's not, quite, overbearing... but I do find it notable against some people claiming BE's were "silent".  
Sound level certainly isn't a factor in choosing a BE here (vs. a common family sedan... not a Hellcat).

[G. David Felt]

That noise is a deal breaker for me, Lucid pass as I would not want that noise on the inside. My escalade is more quiet than that 6 figure luxury auto.

[balthazar]

I learned an interesting fact RE the dawn of the automobile/fueling question. Ford engineered the Model T to run as a flex fuel vehicle; gas, kerosene or alcohol.  The reason behind that was Henry Ford wanted to see the farmer be as self-sufficient as possible, and farms always had one or the other of those fuels on-site, and could make corn alcohol themselves.

So there really was no ‘fueling anxiety’ in the early years.

[G. David Felt]

Interesting news release, 2021 was a year where Diesel autos lost out to the larger selling BEVs in Europe. Seems the flip is on to cleaner emission autos for personal use.

Battery electric car sales finally overtook the diesel institution in Europe (greencarreports.com)

Pretty cool read on the all-new Volvo Electric Semi truck that has confirmed it delivers on range and performance for the Class 8 truck industry. Like the looks of this truck.

Charged EVs | Volvo’s FH Electric heavy-duty truck proves range and energy efficiency in independent testing - Charged EVs

[G. David Felt]

Interesting review from one of the first owners to take delivery of their R1t and I have to say I am really liking the interior.

More of his videos can be seen here: TEDActuallyTalks - YouTube

Have to say these owner reviews are better than the media reviews, I think. Like the way he built his truck in color and features.