Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[balthazar]

Here the growth area is chain convenience stores wanting to put in gas pumps, also. We have Wawa thru a number of east coast states, and they closed/tore down a store because the township wouldn't allow them to put in pumps, then built new stores (with pumps) in adjacent townships to the north & south of the old site. QuickChek is another chain- just built 2 new stores within the last 12-24 months in my immediate area, both with pumps but none with chargers.

[Robert Hall]

Chain convenience stores around here seem to be co-sited with name brand gas stations around here...Shell, BP, Sunoco w/ branded convenience stores seem to be common.    Looks like I only bought gas for my Jeep 3 times in 2020.  Was a strange year.

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

Some good reading as it rights many wrongs on the attack by the ICE side on EVs.

Study Against EVs Backed By Legacy Automakers Is Debunked In Epic Way (insideevs.com)

Electric Cars Need Way Less Raw Materials Than ICE Vehicles (insideevs.com)

After reading both stories and then following the links to see what all is in the reports used for these stories, EV is the right way to go for Humanity.

[balthazar]

Seems huge obstacles in obtaining raw materials are hampering all projections of achieving 100% BE vehicles by 2035. A harsh dose of reality, perhaps.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/electric-america-needs-more-mines-174844266.html

It is obviously pertinent to include the carbon footprint of building/operating new mines and all that involves, in the so-called 'carbon footprint' of BE's (not to mention the carbon footprint of manufacturing & installing a few hundred thousand public charging stations). The raw materials and fueling infrastructure of IC has long been established.

[G. David Felt]

8 hours ago, balthazar said:

Seems huge obstacles in obtaining raw materials are hampering all projections of achieving 100% BE vehicles by 2035. A harsh dose of reality, perhaps.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/electric-america-needs-more-mines-174844266.html

It is obviously pertinent to include the carbon footprint of building/operating new mines and all that involves, in the so-called 'carbon footprint' of BE's (not to mention the carbon footprint of manufacturing & installing a few hundred thousand public charging stations). The raw materials and fueling infrastructure of IC has long been established.

I do wonder how much of the existing use of various metals can be replaced by using lite weight high strength plastics / carbon fiber. That would be interesting to know the impact of those materials versus the pit mines. I know BMW has one of the worlds largest Carbon Fiber manufacturing plants in Moses Lake Washington as they off set their use in the i series auto's by selling spools of the fiber to Boeing for the Dream liner planes. Supposedly that is one of their greenest plants for BMW.

BMW Group and SGL Group to triple production capacities at Moses Lake carbon fiber plant From 2014. 

BMW plans big expansion of Moses Lake carbon-fiber plant | The Spokesman-Review From 2014 local paper.

Plant has been constantly growing as they now also sell the spools of Carbon Fiber to other auto companies.

[G. David Felt]

In 2017, we first heard of a change with GMC moving to Carbon Fiber beds that would outperform the Ford Aluminum bed or the high strength steel that RAM and gm has been using. 

GM to use carbon fiber in redesigned pickup beds (autonews.com)

In 2019 We were introduced to CarbonPro beds and the news media seemed to be very excited.

GM Could Expand Carbon Fiber Use Beyond Trucks | GM Authority

GM increases use of carbon fiber for durability (autonews.com)

GMC has this official site on their web site.

Sierra CarbonPro Bed: Innovation & Durability | GMC Life

Been searching to see if this will be used in the Hummer, but not found anything yet. Makes sense to use it to reduce weight.

@balthazar I hate to make assumptions, but was wondering did you upgrade to this bed or is your new truck going to have the standard high strength steel bed?

[ykX]

Fisker abandons solid-state EV batteries

Fisker abandons solid-state EV batteries | Autoblog

"I think personally, they’re at least seven years out, if not more, in terms of any sort of high-volume format," he said. "... once you have a breakthrough in that technology, you need probably three years to set up high-volume manufacturing, and then you need another three years to do durability testing. So even if somebody invented it today, it would be at least probably six years out."

[balthazar]

26 minutes ago, David said:

I hate to make assumptions, but was wondering did you upgrade to this bed or is your new truck going to have the standard high strength steel bed?

It's only available on the Denali & AT4, and it's part of a package that costs $11-12K. So no.

[G. David Felt]

20 minutes ago, ykX said:

Fisker abandons solid-state EV batteries

Fisker abandons solid-state EV batteries | Autoblog

"I think personally, they’re at least seven years out, if not more, in terms of any sort of high-volume format," he said. "... once you have a breakthrough in that technology, you need probably three years to set up high-volume manufacturing, and then you need another three years to do durability testing. So even if somebody invented it today, it would be at least probably six years out."

I think Fisker is hurting for money as to why they abandon their Solid State battery. Without deep pockets, you cannot deliver and we already are aware that both Toyota and gm are planning to show off their solid state batteries this year in concept auto's.

Toyota ready to unveil solid-state battery EV in 2021 | Autoblog

Plenty of write up on the benefits and I still think we will see at the high end Solid state batteries by the later half of 2020's Solid State going into production in luxury EVs.

Solid-state batteries to change the game for electric vehicles - TechHQ

The future of electric vehicles is powered by solid-state batteries (techwireasia.com)

The Eternal Promise of Solid-State Batteries (autoweek.com)

Big difference in size of a traditional Li-Ion battery and Solid state of the same power.

[G. David Felt]

CNBC is reporting an interview with Volvo CTO who has stated, NO FUTURE LONG-TERM for ICE auto's. As such, they have stated the following:

• Online Only sales model working with Volvo pickup locations.
  • People can still go to a Volvo location to test drive and buy if they do not want to order online from volvocars.com
  • Location sales associates will help you place an order online.
  • Orders placed will then be delivered to the pickup locations from a regional holding area. 
  • Demonstrator auto's will be at the global Volvo locations.
  •  
• Hybrids are a bridging technology and will only be around till 2030
• 2030 moving forward will be pure EV only for global product line
• Due to competition, online ordering will lower costs, better transparency, stronger customer loyalty, faster purchase response for the auto you want.

Volvo says it will be 'fully electric' by 2030 and move car sales online (msn.com)

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, David said:

I do wonder how much of the existing use of various metals can be replaced by using lite weight high strength plastics / carbon fiber.

No; it's powertrain-related metals, copper, lithium, etc etc, not steels or aluminum.

[ykX]

50 minutes ago, David said:

I think Fisker is hurting for money as to why they abandon their Solid State battery. Without deep pockets, you cannot deliver and we already are aware that both Toyota and gm are planning to show off their solid state batteries this year in concept auto's.

It might be true but I believe it when I see it.  It has been a lot of talk about solid state batteries but so far nothing realistic.

[G. David Felt]

Seems Magna will bring a 25th manufacturing facility to Michigan as they just broke ground on a plant that will supply battery enclosures for Hummer EV. This plant will add 300 jobs to the local economy.

345,000 sq-ft facility is their new Magna Electric Vehicle Structures building and a $70 million dollar investment over the next few years. The plant is expected to go live in production in 2022 at the same time that the gm/LG battery plant goes live with production.

Magna says they will supply battery enclosures for a growing list of auto companies in Steel, Aluminum, carbon and Multi-material configurations, customized to meet the needs of each customer at this plant.

Magna is currently hiring for a variety of jobs, including managers, engineers, operators and more.

Charged EVs | Magna’s new Michigan plant to supply battery pack parts for Hummer EV - Charged EVs

[G. David Felt]

First review of the 2022 Chevrolet Bolt EUV

2022 Chevrolet Bolt EUV First Drive Review: A Bigger, Better Bolt (insideevs.com)

 

[ocnblu]

lol

[G. David Felt]

Business Insider is reporting that Tesla is bleeding market share almost 100% to Ford as people dump their Tesla and buy a Mach-E.

This report comes from Morgan Stanley, This same time a year ago Tesla had 81% market share in the USA for EV sales. Year later Tesla is only 69% EV market share. Sales are up 40% for BEV sales.

Morgan Stanley is projecting Tesla to drop below 60% EV market share this year 2021 and to drop below 50% in 2022 as more and more EV auto choices come out from the various OEMs.

Tesla Is Bleeding Battery EV Market Share To Ford's Mustang Mach-E: Morgan Stanley | Markets Insider (businessinsider.com)

Ford Mach-E had 3,739 units sold in February 2021 compared to just 238 units sold in January 2021 and a symbolic 3 in December 2020. Currently the Mach-E accounts for 2.4% of Fords auto sales in the U.S.

Ford Mustang Mach-E U.S. Sales Exceed 3,700 In February (insideevs.com)

[balthazar]

Actually up 34% vs. a year ago (total industry was down 6%). Which was still off the peak set in 2018.

Report says Mustang Mach-E was responsible for almost 100% of Tesla's market share PERCENTAGE loss, but Ford only built 6700 units in 2020.

Lo-ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go

Edited March 5, 2021 by balthazar

[ccap41]

^ now that makes more sense. There's no way Tesla could lose 100% market share. 

Well, they could. They'd be out of business. 

[balthazar]

Percentages have their place, but they throw the casual reader off with ease. 

You read 'sales are up 50%!' and that's factually correct when you go from (4) to (6).

Far more impactful if you go from 400,000 to 600,000.

[balthazar]

Here's a short historical overview, that I think parallels can be drawn to the battery electric vehicle arena.
- - - - - 
The UPC / bar code device took a long time to get to the point it is today.
• 1949 : Conceived and patented (as a 'bull's-eye' design).
• 1952 : patent granted.
• 1960 : Laser light demonstrated.
• 1966 : Kroger supermarket chain produced booklet that in part mentioned a 'future where an optical scanner could read product prices'.
• 1972 : Real-world (successful) test at a Kroger's of an automated check stand (of the bull's-eye design).
• call to standardize the system / fielding manufacturer & marketer commentary.
• 7 (all U.S.) companies put in submissions. Criteria was; it had to be a max of 1.5" square, readable at any speed & direction (the initial concern that resulted in the bull's eye design), and have less than 1 error in 20,000 scans.
• 1974 : first bar code design public scan.
• Not an immediate success. K-Mart led a huge push, and it 'took off' in grocery & business industries in the 1980s.
• 2004 : Fortune magazine estimated that the bar code was used by 80-90% of the Top 500 U.S. companies.
- - - - -

TONS of parallels going on. Allowing a long interval of time to optimize the technology [scanners / batteries], 'universalizing' the bar code / charging plugs, and the normal 'evolution' of getting every corporate entity & manufacturer online. 

Note that from the retailer's point of view, this was openly requested/desired, and the consumer only saw faster check-out/stocking of goods- both positives. There was no change in the shopper's practice, and no massive price spiking to implement the system. It was seamless, unobtrusive, intangible.

Still took roughly 50 years to become widespread.

This is the natural course of commerce & manufacturing in the world. Change happens, but change takes time. A LOT of time. This example is a perfect reflection of why I continue to repeat that internal combustion bans in 14 years aren't going to stand. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

48 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Here's a short historical overview, that I think parallels can be drawn to the battery electric vehicle arena.
- - - - - 
The UPC / bar code device took a long time to get to the point it is today.
• 1949 : Conceived and patented (as a 'bull's-eye' design).
• 1952 : patent granted.
• 1960 : Laser light demonstrated.
• 1966 : Kroger supermarket chain produced booklet that in part mentioned a 'future where an optical scanner could read product prices'.
• 1972 : Real-world (successful) test at a Kroger's of an automated check stand (of the bull's-eye design).
• call to standardize the system / fielding manufacturer & marketer commentary.
• 7 (all U.S.) companies put in submissions. Criteria was; it had to be a max of 1.5" square, readable at any speed & direction (the initial concern that resulted in the bull's eye design), and have less than 1 error in 20,000 scans.
• 1974 : first bar code design public scan.
• Not an immediate success. K-Mart led a huge push, and it 'took off' in grocery & business industries in the 1980s.
• 2004 : Fortune magazine estimated that the bar code was used by 80-90% of the Top 500 U.S. companies.
- - - - -

TONS of parallels going on. Allowing a long interval of time to optimize the technology [scanners / batteries], 'universalizing' the bar code / charging plugs, and the normal 'evolution' of getting every corporate entity & manufacturer online. 

Note that from the retailer's point of view, this was openly requested/desired, and the consumer only saw faster check-out/stocking of goods- both positives. There was no change in the shopper's practice, and no massive price spiking to implement the system. It was seamless, unobtrusive, intangible.

Still took roughly 50 years to become widespread.

This is the natural course of commerce & manufacturing in the world. Change happens, but change takes time. A LOT of time. This example is a perfect reflection of why I continue to repeat that internal combustion bans in 14 years aren't going to stand. 

THANK YOU, Yes this is a excellent example and plenty of parallels can be taken from this.

The one thing to point out is that technology from 49 to the 1980's was so minuscule compared to where technology is at today. I do not see a 30 year slow tech change that happened for the lowly bar code. We already have much superior electric motors and battery tech that is changing much faster. I believe just like the computer industry that started slow in the 90's with consumer models and then exploded in the last 15 years will be a much more modern way that BEVs will happen IMHO.

[balthazar]

You must've missed the part where laser / optical scanning became possible during the timeline. That was monstrous.

BEVs are still not using standardized plugs or charge rates, just like in the dawn of electrification of US consumer goods, which had a multitude of different plug designs & voltages. It's a very outdated approach that seems to be ignoring past successful models. 
 

Edited March 5, 2021 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

You must've missed the part where laser / optical scanning became possible during the timeline. That was monstrous.

BEVs are still not using standardized plugs or charge rates, just like in the dawn of electrification of US consumer goods, which had a multitude of different plug designs & voltages. It's a very outdated approach that seems to be ignoring past successful models. 
 

Tesla chooses to go with a proprietary standard and yet has already converted to the SAE J1772 for Europe and China.

Nissan still pushing their dying, almost dead CHAdeMO standard, but has stated they will also go with the SAE connection for their first mainstream BEV under Infiniti label.

Other than Tesla, everyone else is supporting the SAE standard. Who is not, as I have not seen anyone else announce a different connector for Level 1, 2 and 3 chargers.

I have seen you can get a converter on Amazon for allowing your Tesla to connect to the SAE chargers.

SAE J1772 - Wikipedia

Search for 'J1772' - SAE International

[G. David Felt]

Very exciting review on the VW ID.4 with both positives and negatives that I agree with and that the reviewer was a 6'6" tall long leg guy who actually tested being comfy in the front seat and then getting out and testing the back seat.

Cool Read. Hopefully VW will take his input to heart as they get ready to start production here.

2021 VW ID.4: 5 hits and misses, up close with the electric car for the masses (greencarreports.com)

 

With the New 2022 Bolt released, 2021 Bolts have gotten crazy cheap especially for Costco members. Get $3,000 up front cash to use as a down payment and $107 a month lease rate with 12,000 miles a year for 36 months.

Cheapest new-car lease is all-electric: Chevy Bolt EV lease deals as low as $107 per month (greencarreports.com)

[G. David Felt]

Breaking News

Montgomery County, Maryland which operates 200 schools and a fleet of over 1,400 diesel buses has signed a contract with Highland Electric Transportation for phase 1 of a massive bus fleet transformation.

Over the next four years, Highland Electric Transportation will deliver 326 electric school buses and electrify all five of the MCPS's bus depots including a V2G or vehicle-to-grid component.

The buses will have a 226 kWh capacity power train from Proterra with a 135 mile range.

Charged EVs | Proterra to deliver over 320 V2G-equipped school buses to Montgomery County, Maryland - Charged EVs

[G. David Felt]

Breaking News

Hyundai has released the investigation showing that the Kona EV fires are caused by folded Anode tabs. As such, Hyundai has announced they will use the SK Innovation batteries in the new Ioniq 5. This sets up a battle between LG and SK as well as a bigger problem due to SK stealing billions of dollars worth of battery trade secrets for use in their battery packs. As such SK was banned from building and selling battery packs in the US which means they would have to shutdown their $2.6 Billion dollar plant they just built with a planned total $5 billion in the Georgia Battery production plant now being up in the air depending on what the current administration does about the past administrations fine and ban on the SK plant.

This new SK Plant is supposed to supply battery packs for the Ford F-150 EV Truck and the VW ID.4 EV.

Hyundai Officially Confirms Folded Anode Tab Caused Kona EV Fires (insideevs.com)

Interesting news on Rivian and how their charging port opens as well as the push to allow them to sell directly to consumers in Georgia rather than have to build stores or dealerships.

 

[G. David Felt]

Edmunds and Car and Driver according to InsideEV are saying that the EPA needs to change the way EV's are tested for auto mileage after testing shows Tesla FAILS to deliver on their battery pack range over and over.

Tesla And EPA Are Wrong When It Comes To Range, Says Ben Sullins (insideevs.com)

Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds

Very cool Video of a F-150 Rivian powered truck racing Suzuki's ATV's.

 

[G. David Felt]

Latest on a Coast to Coast drive in the Mustang Mach-E

 

[G. David Felt]

Seems that Rivian does have a long bed king cab pickup truck mule based on pictures that Inside EV got ahold of.

The following picture is what is being used to make this assumption that Rivian is looking at longer bed lengths since it would only make sense to offer multiple bed lengths in the truck market.

Here you can clearly see a much shorter door than what is on the launch Crew Cab Pickup.

As such, photoshop to the rescue and we get the following:

This Rivian R1T Extended Cab Long Bed Truck Rendering Looks Sleek (insideevs.com)

[G. David Felt]

@oldshurst442 Your Country is making News!!!  

Breaking News

Canada has announced today a $2.75 Billion dollar package of buying electric buses and charging infrastructure. 

This package of spending is a commitment to buy 5,000 electric school buses over the next five years and charging infrastructure at the bus barns. 

This is a small part of a much larger change over as the Canada government has approved a $14.9 billion public transit investment to move to a zero emissions public bus system.

Lion Electric, a Canadian bus production company is committed to building both electric school buses and public transit buses as Canada pushes a massive change over from Diesel to electric.

This investment comes with a couple strings attached. Companies that supply these electric buses to the school districts and cities for public transit must be Canadian based and the various parts much be majority built in Canada. As such the government says this will drive innovation and jobs at the various existing and new electric auto companies.

Canada announces $2.75 billion investment in zero-emissions buses and charging infrastructure (electrek.co)

[balthazar]

11 minutes ago, David said:

Seems that Rivian does have a long bed king cab pickup truck mule...

Seems that the puny 4.5’ bed will have an available 5.5’ bed. That’s not a ‘long’ bed, nor is it a ‘standard’ bed.
Rivian has a short bed and an even shorter bed.
I also learned in googling around that Rivian is repeating honda’s fail of locating the spare under the bed floor.

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Seems that the puny 4.5’ bed will have an available 5.5’ bed. That’s not a ‘long’ bed, nor is it a ‘standard’ bed.
Rivian has a short bed and an even shorter bed.
I also learned in googling around that Rivian is repeating honda’s fail of locating the spare under the bed floor.

Will be interesting to see what they end up doing since all this is, is assumptions.

To quote my dad:

Assumptions can always bite you in the ASS since ass is the start of assumption.

?

[balthazar]

Yes; hopefully they address the actual needs of the segment they’re trying to plant a foot in. Imagine if they came to market only showing a 2-dr pickup. ?

However, what I’ve described IS what they’re spending time building. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

Yes; hopefully they address the actual needs of the segment they’re trying to plant a foot in. Imagine if they came to market only showing a 2-dr pickup. ?

I honestly get the 5.5 and 4.5 beds for a third to half of America that will use it for Home Depot runs and camping. but for those that need an actual work truck, 8ft and 6ft beds are to me a requirement.

I suspect Chevrolet / GMC and Ford will deliver on that for the real EV trucks for sure.

[balthazar]

A ‘third to a half’ of US consumers do NOT use a full-size truck with a 4.5’ bed.
 

Zero do.

[G. David Felt]

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

A ‘third to a half’ of US consumers do NOT use a full-size truck with a 4.5’ bed.
 

Zero do.

Clarification, of those that buy a full size truck, I bet you will find that up to half of the truck purchases use them for home gardening and as such are more than covered by a small bed.

[balthazar]

NOW who’s assuming? ?

I know and have known so many pickup owners; I myself have been in the segment 26 years now, and literally none of them use it only for ‘- couple bags of mulch’.

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

NOW who’s assuming? ?

I know and have known so many pickup owners; I myself have been in the segment 26 years now, and literally none of them use it only for ‘- couple bags of mulch’.

Yes, I am making an Assumption, but I cannot see that of all pickup sales in 2020 which is 2,863,938 are used like a work truck hauling full size lumber, cement, etc. construction stuff.

Trucks are pretty common drive now for everyone and common sense would say that with the 10's of millions of trucks in the US of the 10-'s of millions registered that they are not all used the way you use it for your business / work.

I see so many trucks in the neighborhood where I live and I rarely see them with anything more than stuff they pickup from Fred Meyers, Home Depot, Haul stuff to the dump, etc.

The bulk of folks do not use them for 4x8 sheets of plywood or sheetrock, etc.

2020 US Pickup Truck Sales Figures By Model | GCBC (goodcarbadcar.net)

[balthazar]

I’m not talking about how I use my truck.

Saying 4.5’ ‘covers most people’ is like saying... the absolute smallest CUV cargo space covers you, or the absolute smallest sedan trunk covers you, or 200 HP covers you. That’s not how the US market operates.

[balthazar]

"Who needs a big fussy gas car? Most folk only drive local, to grab a few items!" 
 

[surreal1272]

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

A ‘third to a half’ of US consumers do NOT use a full-size truck with a 4.5’ bed.
 

Zero do.

And your proof of this is?

[oldshurst442]

Canadian humour on big 'ole pick up trucks.

 

 

[oldshurst442]

Experimental trials on its way?   A possible solution?  

Many issues NEED to be addressed but its a start...  

 

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

And your proof of this is?

Ooo, that's easy.

Name me a full-size pickup built now with a 4.5' bed.

[Robert Hall]

The shortest of short beds on US market full sizers seems to be about 66 inches (5 1/2 feet) (F150).   Even the mid sizers, the shortest seems to be 60 inches (5 feet). 

By comparison, the old Explorer Sport Trac had a bed which was 49.2 inches or 4.1 feet...

[balthazar]

short : 5.5'
standard : 6.5'
long : 8'

4.5' = introducing a brand new 2025 battery electric sedan with a 100 mile maximum range
 

[oldshurst442]

Another bad ass pick up truck parody

 

[daves87rs]

11 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Another bad ass pick up truck parody

 

Very goofy.....lol....

[surreal1272]

23 hours ago, balthazar said:

Ooo, that's easy.

Name me a full-size pickup built now with a 4.5' bed.

That’s the problem here. He did not specify full size trucks when he said “4.5 or 5.5 ft” (and it was pretty obvious that was an estimated number to begin with because how much difference is there really between 4.5 and 5 ft) beds. That was aimed at all trucks, not just full size. Everyone knows that there isn’t a full size with a 4.5ft bed but there a bunch with 5.5ft beds. I’d like to add that after 12 years in Arizona and a state second only to Texas in terms of the percentage of vehicles that are pick ups there, I can honestly say that they are VASTLY underused because most fools there are more concerned with lifting them, chroming them out, and squatting them, to do any REAL work with them. Fact.

Edited March 7, 2021 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

Rivian R1T is a full-size truck by general dimensions, IIRC. Wheelbase 135”. In that we were talking about the Rivian, I went ahead and assumed we weren’t talking about mid-sized trucks.

Agreed that the majority of half-ton F/S trucks seem to be the short bed, and that most days most owners aren’t stressing the max capacity of their beds. But like I stated earlier; if bed size is unimportant, so is sedan trunk or CUV cargo cubic footage. Or 400 HP. Or a vehicle with more than 2 seats/back doors for a 1-2 person household. Chose your parallel.

OR... it’s there because you may need it occasionally.