Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[G. David Felt]

Some very cool testing and proving EVs can work just fine in the extreme cold.

 

WOW, In getting ready for the 2022 BOLT and BOLT EUV, seems dealers are slashing prices big time on the existing BOLT.

2022 Chevy Bolts drive deep '20-'21 model discounts toward $20K - Electrek

Some Very cool testing of the R1T ahead of the deliveries scheduled to begin in June.

 

[G. David Felt]

Interesting, forecasts for the US is a doubling of EV sales in 2021 namely due to other OEMs coming out finally with EVs.

Electric cars will double their market share in 2021, forecast says - Roadshow (cnet.com)

[ccap41]

I just had a friend get their Bolt bought back because of the botched battery situation and he's getting either a Tesla Model 3 or Mach E(if he gets a chance to drive a Mach E). 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

I just had a friend get their Bolt bought back because of the botched battery situation and he's getting either a Tesla Model 3 or Mach E(if he gets a chance to drive a Mach E). 

Hopefully the Mach E, I have seen way too many Tesla's broken down around town and the fit n finish is an eye sore when you can see panel alignment gaps on the freeway. Way over rated auto.

[ocnblu]

5 hours ago, David said:

0-50 km/h (31 mph) in 2.9 seconds

SCARY QUICK (lol)

[surreal1272]

25 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

SCARY QUICK (lol)

Yet still faster than a CVT equipped Rogue, or any CVT equipped vehicle for that matter. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

44 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

SCARY QUICK (lol)

Especially so in the hands of slow ICE drivers!  

[ocnblu]

9 hours ago, David said:

Especially so in the hands of slow ICE drivers!  

Well step on it a little bit, it's got 395 hp and 400 ft lbs of torque!

[ykX]

13 hours ago, David said:

Hopefully the Mach E, I have seen way too many Tesla's broken down around town and the fit n finish is an eye sore when you can see panel alignment gaps on the freeway. Way over rated auto.

Boy you like exaggerating! Plenty of Teslas where I live and I yet to see one "broken down" on a side of the road.  Not that they don't have quality issues, but to be fair it is not like Ford is famous for it super high quality.  They botched their last couple new car releases pretty badly.

[balthazar]

Definitely a lot of Teslas in NJ. I've certainly seen a number of them on flatbeds, but nothing out of proportion to other brands.

[Drew Dowdell]

I have become quite enamored with this.  I may get a small used hybrid to keep the miles off the Avalanche for now and then in a few years spring for one of these to be my daily.  I love this color and the green interior.

[G. David Felt]

7 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I have become quiet enamored with this.  I may get a small used hybrid to keep the miles off the Avalanche for now and then in a few years spring for one of these to be my daily.  I love this color and the green interior.

This is what I love also for my next SUV to replace the Escalade. I really love the color and interior. Wife will either get the Hummer pickup or R1T. Not sure on the color though as that is her choice.

[ykX]

I am not crazy about funky headlights and the look of the front, but I like everything else about R1S so far.  I would love to have daily that would be efficient and will have real off-road capability, but $70k is a lot of money.  Hopefully there will be smaller off-road capable EV that will be priced more reasonably. 

[ccap41]

19 hours ago, David said:

Hopefully the Mach E, I have seen way too many Tesla's broken down around town and the fit n finish is an eye sore when you can see panel alignment gaps on the freeway. Way over rated auto.

He's certainly not a fan of the "SUV" look though.

The deal breaker for me would be the lack of real buttons/controls that Teslas have. I couldn't tolerate having to scroll through the screen to adjust simple things like wipers, opening the glovebox, adjusting seat/steering wheel.

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, ykX said:

I am not crazy about funky headlights and the look of the front, but I like everything else about R1S so far.

It certainly presents well in pics, and overall it's attractive in & out... EXCEPT the 'surprised anime' front end. I think a lot of potential buyers will shy away from that aspect (ignoring price here).

[ccap41]

Want. 

Or...

$2500 for the paint is a kick in the nuts though. 

[ykX]

14 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

$2500 for the paint is a kick in the nuts though. 

For that kind of money it should have real silver flakes in it.

[balthazar]

For that kind of money, the paint should be free.

[ccap41]

Silver and white are free. Everything else is $1500 or $2500, additionally. 

[G. David Felt]

Seems according to a Post on LinkedIn by the CEO of VW, that moving Forward Ford will build their EVs on the VW MEB electric platform and will start by converting the Cologne Germany Ford sit to pure EV production using the Meb Platform.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/herbertdiess_ford-motor-company-will-make-cologne-a-successful-activity-6768486497113923585-RK36

Herbert Diess • FollowingChairman of the Board of Management of Volkswagen Group5d • 

Ford Motor Company will make Cologne a successful E-location! Within our alliance, Volkswagen AG will contribute with all its power, Jim Farley.

The automotive plants in Zwickau, Dresden, Cologne, Emden, Hanover, Wolfsburg will manufacture their e-cars on the basis of the MEB electric modular system. In direct competition with Tesla in Grünheide.

Thomas Schmall supplies the following components: Battery, e-motor, axles, steering, transmission, brakes - more than any other car from a single source. From Braunschweig, Salzgitter, Kassel, Poznan. The goal: best quality and maximum competitiveness based on the highest scales.

Our plants outside Germany in Anting and Foshan (China), Mladá Boleslav (Czech Republic) and Chattanooga (USA) also already use MEB technology. Further locations will follow.

[G. David Felt]

BMW CEO says the double digit growth of Tesla is at an end and cannot continue as mainstream auto companies enter the EV market.

BMW CEO Expresses Doubts For Tesla's Further Growth Rate (insideevs.com)

Lucid Investor Deck has comparisons to everyone else and it is rather interesting.

Full deck with explanations here:

lucid-investor-deck-february-2021.pdf (lucidmotors.com)

Comparison deck:

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Silver and white are free. Everything else is $1500 or $2500, additionally. 

Yeah, modern times typical. I think only Summit White is free at GMC (Sierra), then there a couple that are $195, about 4-5 that are $495 and 1-2 that are $695. But at 70 grand, it should be included even moreso than at the $50K level. 

“Optional paint”. 
Wonder if you can get a vehicle ‘paint delete’?

[oldshurst442]

53 minutes ago, David said:

BMW CEO says the double digit growth of Tesla is at an end and cannot continue as mainstream auto companies enter the EV market.

BMW CEO Expresses Doubts For Tesla's Further Growth Rate (insideevs.com)

Says the CEO of the company whose EVs get bitched slapped by Tesla EVs in EVERY SINGLE CATEGORY.  INCLUDING sales.  Oh...and his company's  ICE counterparts have lost major market share to said Tesla EVs...

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

11 hours ago, ykX said:

Boy you like exaggerating! Plenty of Teslas where I live and I yet to see one "broken down" on a side of the road.

Me too.

My partner's Model S is as reliable as any other vehicle out there.   No major issues.  

Lots of bitchin' about fit and finish and all that.  Again, with his car, not much different than any other car... even as compared to other vehicles in that price range...   

Quality of materials may not be up to that price tag's standard's, but he didnt buy a Model S for the quality of materials.  But a Tesla is not about prestigious interiors anyway!  

He didnt buy it for the speed either. He bought it to get off of oil. And to him, the price of admission was well worth it. 

I laugh, even at @David when people bitch at Tesla's fit and finish.  Its mostly much ado about nothing.

My wife's 2013 Ford Fusion has Tesla levels of fit and finish...On the exterior as the interior is good on the Fusion.

My wife's car before the Fusion, a 2009 Mazda 3, also had Tesla levels of fit and finish. On the inside too.

My car before my Acura, a 2005 Impala SS. Well....THAT car had  Tesla levels of fit and finish. Interior AND exterior.   

People bitch about Tesla's paint jobs...

All MY cars mentioned, the Mazda 3, The Ford Fusion, the Chevy Impala...they ALL had shyte paint jobs one way or other.

The Fusion has orange peel near the license plate area in the back.  The hood, which is aluminum I think, well, its starting to peel off at the top of the hood little by little. 

The Impala had paint starting to peel off at the rear wheel wells.

The Mazda had thin thin paint.  

The Fusion's chromed trim on the C Pillar fell off. BOTH sides. I had to get those replaced 6 months after ownership. There was an eventual recall on that. Or a bulletin report...

Ive never seen more cheap interiors than that of the Mazda AND the Impala.  The Mazda is an econobox.  OK. But for the amounts of times Ive heard bitching and moaning about Cavaliers and Sunbirds...I think it wasnt fair for the J-Body to get that kind of heat when 200 years later, the Mazda 3 was WORSE than the J-Body...

The Impala...there is no phoquing excuse for that kind of cheapness.  The Impala SS cost me 40 000 Canadian to buy.  And I know GM got heat for cheap interiors, no where near the bitchin' that Tesla gets. 

Tesla is still a new car company.  What is FoMoCo's and GM's excuse?

Mazda's?

Mazda has been around a long time too...

 

@David

I aint gonna touch your Escalade. But your Trailblazer SS is fair game.

Do NOT tell me that your Trailblazer SS's interior is worth the price that it was sold as new. 

Because it wasnt!   You could defend it, but as vocal as you are about Tesla, I would expect that you are as harsh about your own Trailblazer as you are about Tesla... 

I say that with love! 

Edited February 24, 2021 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

@ykX @oldshurst442 I am thinking being the west coast and especially the Seattle area, you see a ton of Tesla every day and as such, the more you see the more you see the occasional break down of one along the side of the road.

I would agree with ya both that it is probably no more than ICE auto's. It is weird that Tesla does not take this more serious with other OEMS coming into the market with EVs. Ford and Hyundai as well as gm and especially Rivian is going to put a big squeeze on Tesla sales as people leave for other options.

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, David said:

I am thinking being the west coast and especially the Seattle area, you see a ton of Tesla every day and as such,

I get to see Teslas everyday too. Tons.  These are BIG hits here.  

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I get to see Teslas everyday too. Tons.  These are BIG hits here.  

Yes, a big hit here too, but still see the occasional one on the flatbed or along the side of the road. Thinking on this, it might also be more common for me to see them on Flatbeds since the repair shop for this area is just down the road off of 220th and I5 in Mountlake Terrace, WA.

[G. David Felt]

5 hours ago, David said:

Seems according to a Post on LinkedIn by the CEO of VW, that moving Forward Ford will build their EVs on the VW MEB electric platform and will start by converting the Cologne Germany Ford sit to pure EV production using the Meb Platform.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/herbertdiess_ford-motor-company-will-make-cologne-a-successful-activity-6768486497113923585-RK36

Herbert Diess • FollowingChairman of the Board of Management of Volkswagen Group5d • 

Ford Motor Company will make Cologne a successful E-location! Within our alliance, Volkswagen AG will contribute with all its power, Jim Farley.

The automotive plants in Zwickau, Dresden, Cologne, Emden, Hanover, Wolfsburg will manufacture their e-cars on the basis of the MEB electric modular system. In direct competition with Tesla in Grünheide.

Thomas Schmall supplies the following components: Battery, e-motor, axles, steering, transmission, brakes - more than any other car from a single source. From Braunschweig, Salzgitter, Kassel, Poznan. The goal: best quality and maximum competitiveness based on the highest scales.

Our plants outside Germany in Anting and Foshan (China), Mladá Boleslav (Czech Republic) and Chattanooga (USA) also already use MEB technology. Further locations will follow.

Here is Ford official announcement of going pure EV for the European market starting with their Cologne Germany plant.

Ford Europe Goes All-In On EVs On Road To Sustainable Profitability; Cologne Site Begins $1 Billion Transformation | Ford Media Center

[G. David Felt]

Tesla has halted Model 3 production in California according to Reuters.

Tesla temporarily halts production at Model 3 line in California: Bloomberg News | Reuters

No reason given other than from February 22nd to March 7th the line would not run. This is believed due to the Samsung factory in Texas that had to shut down as it is the source of the self-driving chips  and other chips used by Tesla.

[balthazar]

Has anyone seen a 'take rate' for the autopilot on the Model 3 or Y?

[ccap41]

^ That's a good question. I'd like to know that as well.

For $10,000, I can't imagine it's too high. 

[G. David Felt]

Seems Lion C of Canada, one of the largest and oldest electric bus companies has won a major contract to start the change over for the LA school district to an all electric bus fleet. Lion C will deliver the first 10 electric buses in January 2021 to the LA school district. The busses have 335hp and 1,800 lb-ft of torque and a range of 155 miles per bus. Depending on remaining power in the battery pack, the buses can recharge to full in 2 1/2 to 4 1/2 hours from a 50 kW level II charger.

Lion Electric to bring zero-emission school buses to California's largest district - Electrek

Ford CEO has called on American tech companies to bring production home to the USA now that the chip shortage is showing how dependent the auto industry will be on Asian countries that product the chips they need. He also is saying America needs to build battery production sites now and learn from the chip shortage so that they are not reliant on out of country suppliers now that all auto companies are moving to EVs.

Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda: Ford CEO Calls for U.S. Battery Production (thetruthaboutcars.com)

GM building a local battery plant with LG to supply North America batteries is a positive sign gm is ahead of the competition.

[G. David Felt]

Lordstown is wanting to prove their truck is Commercial grade and so much more. As such, Lordstown is going to build a racer version that will run in the 290 mile off road race 2021 SCORE International San Felipe 250  which will help prove their truck is superior to all other trucks. AWD independent in-wheel hub motors.

Quote: The 2021 SCORE International San Felipe 250 takes place on April 17, 2021, and starts and finishes in San Felipe, Baja California. Lordstown's grit will be revealed during this race of endurance.

This will show just how their truck handles the following question posted in the story: Will the electric platform withstand dust, silt, rocks, water, debris, and heavy abuse? 

 

The Lordstown Endurance EV Pickup Is Going Baja Racing … Sort Of (motortrend.com)

[balthazar]

Lordstown isn’t going to make it long-term.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Lordstown isn’t going to make it long-term.

Maybe, Maybe not, but they do make a solid argument.

Press release on the race truck, 600HP, seems to have plenty of power.

Lordstown Motors To Race Endurance Electric Pickup Truck Skateboard in

I like the setup

They gave a business update on January 28th 2021 as they have stamped their 57 beta builds for mule testing in the real world. They are also a publicly traded company now so flush with $675 million in cash from the stock sale and another $250 million from investment firm. At least they will get to production and delivery for their 40,000 pre-orders they say they have with state, county and city governments across the country.

Lordstown Motors Releases Business Updates; Prepares Ohio Factory to B

Lordstown Motors becomes publicly traded, before delivering its electric trucks (greencarreports.com)

Seems gm is hedging their bet by investing in Lordstown motors as they invested $75 million in August 2020 according to the story below, but I do not find any news release on this on the gm corp site.

Lordstown Motors shares pop in volatile Nasdaq trading debut (cnbc.com)

[oldshurst442]

These things have (4) hub motors?

Awesome!

This is the direction electric motors and related tech should be going in.   

 

[G. David Felt]

1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

These things have (4) hub motors?

Awesome!

This is the direction electric motors and related tech should be going in.   

 

Agree, while some say that in-wheel hub motors affect the suspension, I think proper engineering can address that and it would seem based on Lordstown Motors own videos that they have addressed that. I think these will be very spacious trucks and reliable due to the much simpler design of the skateboard.

Very cool explanation by the VP of engineering about Lordstown powertrain system.

 

[oldshurst442]

I could see that aspect of argument of hub motors affecting suspension.  Unsprung weight...

Koenigsegg Agera, Ferrari 488 Pista, Ford Mustang GT350, Ford GT, Corvette C8 Z06 (supposedly) and some others, all offer carbon wheels to REDUCE weight at the wheels, but like you said, engineering can have a solution for that...   The only thing I could think of, logically speaking without any engineering knowledge, with 4 hub motors at each wheel respectively, at least the unsprung weight is spread EVENLY at all 4 corners while eliminating weight in other areas on the platform without motor mounts, drive shafts etc...

If the Endurance does go racing, the competition of endurance and hard driving of racing  will teach engineers the deficiencies of hub motors...  Improve the tech is what Im getting at. 

I could see that aspect of argument of hub motors affecting suspension.  Unsprung weight...

Koenigsegg Agera, Ferrari 488 Pista, Ford Mustang GT350, Ford GT, Corvette C8 Z06 (supposedly) and some others, all offer carbon wheels to REDUCE weight at the wheels, but like you said, engineering can have a solution for that...   The only thing I could think of, logically speaking without any engineering knowledge, with 4 hub motors at each wheel respectively, at least the unsprung weight is spread EVENLY at all 4 corners while eliminating weight in other areas on the platform without motor mounts, drive shafts etc...

If the Endurance does go racing, the competition of endurance and hard driving of racing  will teach engineers the deficiencies of hub motors...  Improve the tech is what Im getting at. 

[G. David Felt]

@oldshurst442 Thinking on Lordstown Motors in-wheel hub motors, I wonder if they have a non-disclosure signed with Protean Electric as there is many similarities with their in-wheel hub motors.

Homepage - Protean : Protean (proteanelectric.com)

I noticed in their news they have concept work going on with Lexus and Nissan. The CEO in a short video seems to think a luxury car or commercial auto will be the first large scale commercial use of their in-wheel hub motors. I can see Lordstown Motors being that commercial auto.

ProteanInsights Episode 6: Where will we see in-wheel motors in volume first? - Protean : Protean (proteanelectric.com)

For the cars, I think we now know due to these news announcements by Protean Electric.

In-Wheel Motor Case Study: Punchy performance from in-wheel propulsion - Nissan BladeGlider - Protean : Protean (proteanelectric.com)

3 person concept auto

Lexus LF-30 Concept - Which I also doubt will see production due to people wanting normal looking autos, not something out of a sci-fi movie.

In-Wheel Motor Case Study: Visionary EV concept powered by in-wheel motors, previews the future for Lexus - Protean : Protean (proteanelectric.com)

[ccap41]

13 hours ago, David said:

Maybe, Maybe not, but they do make a solid argument.

 

Maybe they should recalculate their numbers with what average drivers actually drive... 

[balthazar]

Going to be even less in 2020 and after (at least for a few years).
I put about 10K on my truck annually.

[balthazar]

13 hours ago, David said:

Agree, while some say that in-wheel hub motors affect the suspension, I think proper engineering can address that

Dozens upon dozens of OEMs have been focused on 'properly engineering' sprung vs. unsprung weight for 50-60 years. It's inarguable physics, and the science behind the problem is totally defined. There's no undiscovered miracle engineering waiting to be released that's going to alter that. 

That said, it's not important in a truck.

[G. David Felt]

One has to have a subscription to read the latest IHS Markit study, but it shows that EVs were 1.8% of new-vehicle registrations in 2020 with a rise to 2.8% in December 2020. The study says it should hit 3.5% in 2021 and double plus that by 2025 as new models come on the market for sale hitting as high as 10% of sales.

The report stated that the West Coast is at 4.8% of new-vehicle registrations compared to Midwest at .8%, Southeast at .9% and the Northeast at 1.6% in region comparisons. By city San Francisco leads the nation with an 11% ev registration.

EVs will be 10% of the US market by 2025—but San Francisco is already past that (greencarreports.com)

[G. David Felt]

Very cool future of Road Rallye E racing.

 

[G. David Felt]

Speed Week 2020 from September is very cool.

 

[G. David Felt]

Petaluma City California in 2019 put a moratorium on new gas stations. Now in 2021, the city has now made it permanent, a ban on all new gas stations. The focus is on Charging stations and moving to an EV auto city.

Petaluma City Council moves to ban new gas stations (petaluma360.com)

[balthazar]

^ Clouded judgment. I would think a permitted/allowed business in a commercial zone would have a solid case to sue the city- far lesser claims have overturned a knee-jerk municipal ordinance before.

Electric car sales in CA have fallen every 6 month period since the first half of 2015 (thru the first half of 2020). Electric trucks have risen, but they peaked in the first half of 2019 (they were down slightly in the 2nd half of '19, so pre-COVID).

CA has 256 thousand BE vehicles registered (USDoE), and 15 MILLION registered total. 

Build charging stations- that's fine. But stop 'oppressing' IC consumers. 

[balthazar]

The Motley Fool is reporting today that Fisker has dropped plans to use solid state batteries, despite claiming they had achieved a "break-through" in the system when they announced it in 2017. The claim then was a possible 500 mile range and recharging in as low as 1 minute, but today Henrik Fiskar stated the technology was far more difficult than they initially figured.

As an aside, QuantumScape -the company working on the same system for VW- sued Fisker for theft of trade secrets... and Fisker settled for $750K.

[riviera74]

2 hours ago, David said:

Petaluma City California in 2019 put a moratorium on new gas stations. Now in 2021, the city has now made it permanent, a ban on all new gas stations. The focus is on Charging stations and moving to an EV auto city.

Petaluma City Council moves to ban new gas stations (petaluma360.com)

SAD and unnecessary.  NO need to BAN new gas stations if the demand for EVs rises over time.  This knee-jerk reaction is rather stupid.

[Robert Hall]

Meh, plenty of gas stations the way it is..is there any need to add more?  The places I've lived the last 20 years, I'm more used to seeing gas stations being closed, not opened.   About the only areas I've seen getting new stations are new suburban developments..

Edited March 1, 2021 by Robert Hall