Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

CUE has been pretty trashy the entire time it's been around. It's probably much improved over the first two generations but as far as I can see, they're on 3.0 that was launched in 2017. They've probably moved on to a different acrynom as I don't see "CUE" on their website. 

 

You must not have owned a German car. 

CUE is currently on version 22.10 and can be done over the air if you have the WiFi setup or the dealer can install the latest version and it works great compared to the buggy early issues.

Current CUE with Alexa is very cool to use and very simple.

IMHO, It really depends on which model of which german auto company you have and how much cutting edge tech you have. MB as well as BMW have a long record of buggy new tech worst than the Americans. Japanese and Korean seem to be far more reliable, but that can also be due to using much less tech.

The EV world is gonna be interesting to see.

[ocnblu]

7 hours ago, David said:

The EV world is gonna be interesting to see.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........

[balthazar]

10 hours ago, David said:

CUE is currently on version 22.10

Typo?

[ocnblu]

26 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Typo?

He's saying this is Cadillac's 22nd try to perfect CUE's deficiencies.

[G. David Felt]

25 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Typo?

Nope when @ccap41 posted about it, I looked into it and found many posts of people getting their CUE system updated with the latest release 22.10. Depending on which model year you have since only in the last 2 years has Cadillac started to change over to WiFi updates, older Cadillacs that have CUE have to go in for a USB flash and currently the CUE is at version 22.10. I am surprised myself at 22 actual full update versions and of course the .10 is a minor update.

Yes CUE is at version 22.10.

This is one of many stories that I think confused people as Cadillac killed their in house CUE and then bought and brought in software designers who actually knew how to build a system, so yes it is still CUE, but night and day from what was CUE 1.0 that came out in 2012 as a 2013 model year. 2017 is when they killed off the existing one and moved everyone onto the new CUE that is not CUE. Still going strong 9 years later.

Cadillac's CUE is dead, meet the new CUE that isn't CUE (motorauthority.com)

 

[balthazar]

8 years and 22 versions = 3 versions PER YEAR, plus howevermany updates in between. That's nutty.

[riviera74]

38 minutes ago, balthazar said:

8 years and 22 versions = 3 versions PER YEAR, plus howevermany updates in between. That's nutty.

Getting it right is HARD, especially when it comes to software.  Good thing Cadillac actually hired somebody to ditch CUE 1.0 for a much better one.

[G. David Felt]

12 hours ago, balthazar said:

8 years and 22 versions = 3 versions PER YEAR, plus howevermany updates in between. That's nutty.

Software World Updates every 4 months is the normal with a major update once per year. GM after CUE 1.0 and 2.0 which was solid if you stayed within the lines, but broke every time people tried to do things the way they approached their smartphone broke all over. 

Was a smart move to bring in an actual software group with UI experience and customer feedback groups to get what is now a very reliable interface.

Still have room to improve, but things are getting better.

I am interested to see the new UI / System that will go into the EVs that take advantage of the new larger displays.

[balthazar]

17 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Getting it right is HARD, especially when it comes to software. 

Sounds like either really poor quality control, really poor planning, or raging planned obsolescence.

[riviera74]

20 hours ago, balthazar said:

Sounds like either really poor quality control, really poor planning, or raging planned obsolescence.

Can it be All of the Above?  It probably is all of these.

[ykX]

On 1/9/2021 at 11:48 AM, David said:

Software World Updates every 4 months

Same issue at my work, when we are doing hardware, god forbid we need to do some changes, we need to get it right with no more than 2 iterations.  However, apparently it is ok for software guys have twenty versions,  constantly finding bugs.  Seems software engineers work with different standards.

[balthazar]

The planned obsolescence in software FAR outstrips anything automakers have done... but watch them ante’ up soon.  

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ykX said:

Same issue at my work, when we are doing hardware, god forbid we need to do some changes, we need to get it right with no more than 2 iterations.  However, apparently it is ok for software guys have twenty versions,  constantly finding bugs.  Seems software engineers work with different standards.

In the 90's it was a crap shoot on Software with no standards to security, quality, etc.

Today, software changes cannot be allowed to break the tree when you check in your fix or new feature. If you break it, you better be ready to explain why and dish out the donuts. Before the pandemic, if you broke the software check-in tree, you had to bring donuts for everyone in the building. In the case of my Isilon team in Seattle, that was 1,200 donuts. OUCH

As such, Microsoft and Apple both instituted around 2005 SDL or Security Development Lifecycle. This brought a ton of reliability and improvements to software development. The last decade has seen a big improvement from storage to smartphones in the way software is developed.

Most people do not know this, but the FORD Sync system is a Secured Kernel of NT from Microsoft.

[Robert Hall]

13 hours ago, David said:

In the 90's it was a crap shoot on Software with no standards to security, quality, etc.

Today, software changes cannot be allowed to break the tree when you check in your fix or new feature. If you break it, you better be ready to explain why and dish out the donuts. Before the pandemic, if you broke the software check-in tree, you had to bring donuts for everyone in the building. In the case of my Isilon team in Seattle, that was 1,200 donuts. OUCH

As such, Microsoft and Apple both instituted around 2005 SDL or Security Development Lifecycle. This brought a ton of reliability and improvements to software development. The last decade has seen a big improvement from storage to smartphones in the way software is developed.

Most people do not know this, but the FORD Sync system is a Secured Kernel of NT from Microsoft.

In some companies, that can be true.  I've worked at plenty of companies that are much looser---where you only know the build is broken when you check out the code and try and build locally and it blows up (and the guy that checked in broken code is 12 time zones away).   I'd hope the software used in cars is held to a high standard, but I know from experience much of what goes on in corporate America is hit and miss... 

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

In some companies, that can be true.  I've worked at plenty of companies that are much looser---where you only know the build is broken when you check out the code and try and build locally and it blows up (and the guy that checked in broken code is 12 time zones away).   I'd hope the software used in cars is held to a high standard, but I know from experience much of what goes on in corporate America is hit and miss... 

I totally understand this, I am an eternal Optimist that I believe we all have BEST INTENT for what we do. Hopefully we can weed out the companies that truly are fly by night grab the money and run and leave only the solid long term looking companies that believe in building quality products.

I truly believe GM with their new electrical nervous system that is Terabytes in data movement has the goods to go back to being a global leader. But like all things, will take time to build and get there.

[ykX]

I Powered My House with the Ford F-150 Hybrid

I Powered My House with the Ford F-150 Hybrid (caranddriver.com)

 

Pretty cool. Worked well.

[G. David Felt]

Good Read, seems Ford nailed the mileage.

2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E range test: At 70 mph, true to EPA highway results (greencarreports.com)

[G. David Felt]

Chevrolet Performance e-Crate Story. This is a very cool video, Lovely Truck and Blazer EV style.

 

[balthazar]

• The 'e-COPO' Camaro is neat, because it's a dedicated track-only car built to do one thing (and it works).
• The C-10 is basically a 'show cruiser for 2', so the fact the bed no longer functions probably isn't a deal breaker.
• But the Blazer is a beater with off-road capability and the conversion destroys the cargo space. Sucks you'd have to either rig a plywood platform over the battery packs or heft your belongings onto a roof rack to get any utility out of it. That's a fail in my book.

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

• The 'e-COPO' Camaro is neat, because it's a dedicated track-only car built to do one thing (and it works).
• The C-10 is basically a 'show cruiser for 2', so the fact the bed no longer functions probably isn't a deal breaker.
• But the Blazer is a beater with off-road capability and the conversion destroys the cargo space. Sucks you'd have to either rig a plywood platform over the battery packs or heft your belongings onto a roof rack to get any utility out of it. That's a fail in my book.

I agree with you on the first two points, but the 3rd I think many have missed the comments that they wanted to see if this could be done and how. The battery pack on the inside is not what is planned and will either be encased between the frame underneath or as you mention some sort of cover over the battery pack inside so the space can still be used.

I could see a steel strength plastic cover over the battery pack if you wanted it inside like they did for this concept experiment.

I suspect since they do have a wide range of e-crate motors and battery pack options coming that you will have choices on how you package or place the battery in an auto that is converted.

I see in the comments that people were asking when the 1,000 HP 3 motor e-crate would be available. This it sounds like is the same electric motor package that will be in the Hummer EV.

 

[G. David Felt]

CES 2021, GM teases New Bolt EUV with SuperCruiser video. New Bolt and Bolt EUV will come out February 2021.

Chevrolet Shares Preview of 2022 Bolt EUV Steering Wheel

[G. David Felt]

More news of the Auto Industry changes happening as CES 2021 Virtual Show kicks off this week.

GM has anounced a new startup called Bright Drop that will have an Electric pallet system and Electric Cargo Van with first deliveries of the EV Van going to FedEx this fall in the US.

GM reveals an electric van, launches a new business for electric cargo delivery (greencarreports.com)

This is followed up by Hyundai Ioniq 5 EV Teaser with built in 3.5 kW Generator for powering all kinds of stuff.

More pictures at the link below.

First Hyundai Ioniq 5 EV teasers reveal concept car looks, generator capability - Roadshow (cnet.com)

Further proof that GM is coming out with even more EV fun is the Video talking about their future EV plans and in the background of a wide variety of EVs is what looks like a C8 inspired CUV. Check out the story for the video and more pictures.

Is This Proof Chevy's Working on a Corvette Electric SUV? (motortrend.com)

Did GM Just Show Off a Chevy Corvette SUV at CES? | The Drive

 

[G. David Felt]

Seems Honda and Acura will now be GM as GM and Honda has signed an agreement to use GM's new Ultium batteries and powertrains to power their EV CUVs for both badges.

GM Will Build Electric Crossovers for Honda and Acura | The Drive

More CES news, seems bigger is better as BMW and MB have both decided to show off their future dash displays that will go from side to side.

CES 2021: The Future Might Be Even Bigger Touch Screens In Your Car (thedrive.com)

[balthazar]

Here's another article that seems to show that the much-touted EV fueling savings either have major caveats... or don't exist. This is not the first time these hard data examinations have dispelled the common breezy press release narrative.

https://autos.yahoo.com/tesla-model-3-proves-evs-202600251.html

Seems that if you use a Tesla Supercharger regularly, you not only are paying the equivalent kw of $8.75/gal of gas, but your fuel cost per mile is on par with a BMW M340 with a 382-HP 6-cylinder getting 26 MPG.

 

- - - - -

1 hour ago, David said:

MB have both decided to show off their future dash displays that will go from side to side.

MB's uses 3 separate screens behind one plane, it's not a true full-width screen. The different shapes/sizes/positioning of the screens also looks pretty haphazard. They stretched it to go around the HVA/C vents to make it look a lot bigger than it actually is... which also makes it look a lot more bland. Could use some subtle framing...

Edited January 13, 2021 by balthazar

[ccap41]

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

Here's another article that seems to show that the much-touted EV fueling savings either have major caveats... or don't exist. This is not the first time these hard data examinations have dispelled the common breezy press release narrative.

https://autos.yahoo.com/tesla-model-3-proves-evs-202600251.html

Seems that if you use a Tesla Supercharger regularly, you not only are paying the equivalent kw of $8.75/gal of gas, but your fuel cost per mile is on par with a BMW M340 with a 382-HP 6-cylinder getting 26 MPG.

 

- - - - -

MB's uses 3 separate screens behind one plane, it's not a true full-width screen. The different shapes/sizes/positioning of the screens also looks pretty haphazard. They stretched it to go around the HVA/C vents to make it look a lot bigger than it actually is... which also makes it look a lot more bland. Could use some subtle framing...

To go with those issues, they had a heck of a time both finding a charger that is working AND getting charged at a decent rate. Yes, the chargers are "rated" for 150 and 250kwh but neither were charging anywhere close to that. 

 

[balthazar]

It's 2021, but we can't seem to get electricity to flow with a consistent dispensing rate.
It's not like these are 1970s 'electron pumps' that haven't been calibrated since 1981 or something.

[G. David Felt]

I missed this in the GM presentations at CES 2021 yesterday, but the VP of Cadillac announced an all new luxury 2 person EV car will be coming from Cadillac.

GM Confirms New Two Seater Cadillac EV Concept Is On The Way | GM Authority

[G. David Felt]

@balthazar @ccap41 I think depending on where one lives, getting a constant high speed electric stream into the battery pack can be a challenge especially for states that have poor electrical grids compared to other states where they have the flow. Yet with that said, while it does affect how fast one recharges on a road trip, most people I believe will charge up at home always having a full battery pack in the morning to start. 

We are also in the early stages and while some standards have been set, I think there is still plenty of room to grow the quality and reliability of the stream of power to hit the designated rate of recharge. It might mean that they need a battery pack to hold the power to help with quick recharging.

In regards to the cost of fueling an electric car, always been some people who come up with these crazy formula's and state it is 2 to 3 times more expensive. Real world has proven this to not be true. I question that persons use of Tesla as an example due to how many people get free charging or prepay at a very competitive rate to home charging.

Again real world charging across the west coast does not bare out that crazy almost $9 per gallon equivalent cost. West coast has a maximum charge allowed on public charging stations so that example is very invalid even Tesla has stated that using the public listed prices is unusual for most tesla owners.

Even the story link says that this is the exception rather than the norm where most people charge at home at ultra cheap rates.

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, David said:

@balthazar @ccap41 I think depending on where one lives, getting a constant high speed electric stream into the battery pack can be a challenge especially for states that have poor electrical grids compared to other states where they have the flow. Yet with that said, while it does affect how fast one recharges on a road trip, most people I believe will charge up at home always having a full battery pack in the morning to start. 

We are also in the early stages and while some standards have been set, I think there is still plenty of room to grow the quality and reliability of the stream of power to hit the designated rate of recharge. It might mean that they need a battery pack to hold the power to help with quick recharging.

Well they need to sort this issue out because it is far from the first time I've read stations not charging anywhere near their stated rate AND having multiple plugs "out of order". It would be infuriating if you're taking a road trip and you think you can stop for 45 minutes for a quick charge and are stuck for 2-3 hours.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, David said:

come up with these crazy formula's and state it is 2 to 3 times more expensive.

1 hour ago, David said:

Real world has proven this to not be true.

The "crazy" formula was grade-school straight forward : cost per mile.
And the piece I quoted literally was 'real world'.

- - - - -
New Year's Day there were SEVEN Teslas at the Supercharger station across the road from me, with another pulled off to the side. Around 9AM. Saying 'most people charge at home' may not be accurate... because at that date & time, the station should've been completely empty.

If most people charge at home, why the fenzied push to build more & more Supercharger stations? Doesn't everybody have an electrified home?

 

[surreal1272]

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

The "crazy" formula was grade-school straight forward : cost per mile.
And the piece I quoted literally was 'real world'.

- - - - -
New Year's Day there were SEVEN Teslas at the Supercharger station across the road from me, with another pulled off to the side. Around 9AM. Saying 'most people charge at home' may not be accurate... because at that date & time, the station should've been completely empty.

If most people charge at home, why the fenzied push to build more & more Supercharger stations? Doesn't everybody have an electrified home?

 

You know I respect your opinion but you are seriously reaching here. Just because someone has a Tesla or EV doesn't mean they have home charger. You are also using a very small sample here ("there were seven Teslas...") to make your case but unless you actually ask those very owners A.) "Do you have a home charger for your EV" followed by B.) "Why are you charging here if you have a home charger", then you don't have a clue what or why. You're just grasping at straws for whatever reason. Sorry, but it just doesn't hold water IMO.

24 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Well they need to sort this issue out because it is far from the first time I've read stations not charging anywhere near their stated rate AND having multiple plugs "out of order". It would be infuriating if you're taking a road trip and you think you can stop for 45 minutes for a quick charge and are stuck for 2-3 hours.

Good thing gas stations always have perfectly functioning pumps that are never "out of order". Oh wait.

 

Point being, sometimes $h! happens.

[balthazar]

But they don't need the Tesla home charger- they can "charge it overnight and be full in the morning" out of a 110 outlet (don't all Teslas come with the adapter for that?). And they'll be "charging it every night to be topped off the next day". Or so I've been assured here.

But for some reason, on New Year's Day [almost everyone is off work / stores are mostly all closed], 7 local people (at the moment I spun by), were sitting at a Supercharger station for who knows what multiples of a half hour, getting kWs at double the rate as at home. I just don't get it.

Yeah- it a micro sample but I'm trying to make sense of it.

If it was evening hours, sure; you drove around during the day, your place of employment has no chargers, you sit at the Station for an hour to get ready for tomorrow. But on a day no one has to be anywhere... why get up, get dressed and drive to a commercial parking lot to pay double rates?

- - - - -
Yes, sometimes gas pumps are out-of-order; they are electrical/hydraulic/mechanical devices. But when many charging locations have 2 outlets, and one is busted AND you have to wait an hour for the guy at the other one to go... it's a far different scenario. At least by me, most gas stations have on the order of a dozen pumps, not 2, and fueling only takes a few minutes.

[G. David Felt]

21 minutes ago, balthazar said:

But they don't need the Tesla home charger- they can "charge it overnight and be full in the morning" out of a 110 outlet (don't all Teslas come with the adapter for that?). And they'll be "charging it every night to be topped off the next day". Or so I've been assured here.

But for some reason, on New Year's Day [almost everyone is off work / stores are mostly all closed], 7 local people (at the moment I spun by), were sitting at a Supercharger station for who knows what multiples of a half hour, getting kWs at double the rate as at home. I just don't get it.

Yeah- it a micro sample but I'm trying to make sense of it.

If it was evening hours, sure; you drove around during the day, your place of employment has no chargers, you sit at the Station for an hour to get ready for tomorrow. But on a day no one has to be anywhere... why get up, get dressed and drive to a commercial parking lot to pay double rates?

- - - - -
Yes, sometimes gas pumps are out-of-order; they are electrical/hydraulic/mechanical devices. But when many charging locations have 2 outlets, and one is busted AND you have to wait an hour for the guy at the other one to go... it's a far different scenario. At least by me, most gas stations have on the order of a dozen pumps, not 2, and fueling only takes a few minutes.

Keep in mind that the preorders of Tesla 3 all included free charging. As such, while the auto's all come with a 110V wall plug charging cord, I would have to think that they are hung up on free power over convenience of charging over night and having a full battery in the morning. I also do know that some of my coworkers figure that since they can do email and slack or teams chat with coworkers via their phone, might as well use the Super Chargers to cover getting a battery pack charged while they also work via their smartphone.

But as @surreal1272 pointed out, way too small a pool of people to make an observation on without asking pointed questions.

@ccap41 Totally agree with you that while the chargers might have a stated rate, the installation might have not been in support of that rate and does need to be rectified. Also broken or out of order charging points need to be fixed ASAP.

Gassed up the SS at Costco and saw that they had 1 diesel and 3 regular / Premium pumps out of order. I asked the attendant and he said 2 had electrical issues with the interface, 3rd one was broken as the person filled up, then got in and drove away breaking the quick connect and still took the hose with them never realizing they never pulled the fuel hose. Diesel was broken as it would not pump so mechanical inside.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, David said:

Keep in mind that the preorders of Tesla 3 all included free charging.

That’s a long while back, and was rescinded; it’s not a factor now.

How many pumps total at Costco? I believe mine can fuel 20 cars total at once.

[ccap41]

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Good thing gas stations always have perfectly functioning pumps that are never "out of order". Oh wait.

 

Point being, sometimes $h! happens.

When was the last time you went to a gas station and half of the pumps just didn't work? I've never encountered this in my life, yet. 

[surreal1272]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

When was the last time you went to a gas station and half of the pumps just didn't work? I've never encountered this in my life, yet. 

Then consider yourself lucky. Two gas stations near me (when I lived in Greensboro, NC) routinely were jacked up. Half the pumps were out and it seems like it was different set of pumps every week. It should be noted that I've seen this in Arizona too and in most cases, they were not the newest pumps. Nonetheless, they most certainly do exist.

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

But they don't need the Tesla home charger- they can "charge it overnight and be full in the morning" out of a 110 outlet (don't all Teslas come with the adapter for that?). And they'll be "charging it every night to be topped off the next day". Or so I've been assured here.

But for some reason, on New Year's Day [almost everyone is off work / stores are mostly all closed], 7 local people (at the moment I spun by), were sitting at a Supercharger station for who knows what multiples of a half hour, getting kWs at double the rate as at home. I just don't get it.

Yeah- it a micro sample but I'm trying to make sense of it.

If it was evening hours, sure; you drove around during the day, your place of employment has no chargers, you sit at the Station for an hour to get ready for tomorrow. But on a day no one has to be anywhere... why get up, get dressed and drive to a commercial parking lot to pay double rates?

- - - - -
Yes, sometimes gas pumps are out-of-order; they are electrical/hydraulic/mechanical devices. But when many charging locations have 2 outlets, and one is busted AND you have to wait an hour for the guy at the other one to go... it's a far different scenario. At least by me, most gas stations have on the order of a dozen pumps, not 2, and fueling only takes a few minutes.

Again, ask those drivers before assuming intent and reason. It's that simple.

[ocnblu]

47 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Then consider yourself lucky. Two gas stations near me (when I lived in Greensboro, NC) routinely were jacked up. Half the pumps were out and it seems like it was different set of pumps every week. It should be noted that I've seen this in Arizona too and in most cases, they were not the newest pumps. Nonetheless, they most certainly do exist.

WAAAY too small of a sample.

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

When was the last time you went to a gas station and half of the pumps just didn't work? I've never encountered this in my life, yet. 

Plenty of times for me. 

Just two months ago to the place I go gas up.

The problem is that...there is no problem when a pump at a gas station goes poo poo.  There usually is another gas station right across the street with full functioning gas pumps.

 

 

with the continual poo pooing of EVs.  Trying to find the most trivial thing thinking that will deter what is the inevitable.

 

 

 

 

 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

When was the last time you went to a gas station and half of the pumps just didn't work? I've never encountered this in my life, yet. 

Easy today, the winter storm fried all the pumps at the Shell Station in my Neighborhood. All 12 pumps dead till further notice according to the sign. Yet when I ran to get the grocery shopping done for my senior parents at Fred Meyers which was out of power this morning also, the Tesla Super Charger station was fully functional this afternoon.

Dead Gas station

Working EV Station.

Goes both ways I know.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

That’s a long while back, and was rescinded; it’s not a factor now.

How many pumps total at Costco? I believe mine can fuel 20 cars total at once.

Still a factor as the pre-orders all came with 3yr free charging, which 3 years has not come up yet, so lots of peeps still using the free charging.

Yes as of today, Tesla has no free charging on any model they sell. Yet as sales dip, Tesla seems to throw this out as an incentive. Research shows the cheapest charging is home charging even with the cost of a 220V charger.

[oldshurst442]

I dont  know where to post this... Ill post this here

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/average-new-car-price-2020/

 

Average new car price in the US is now @ 40 thousand US dollars.   

Something to think about. 

 

 

 

  

[balthazar]

^ Ugh. I suspect the continual shift to SUVs/CUVs is a prime driver here; they're always more expensive that the equivalent sedan.
I'd say BE's are a huge upward price wedge, but they don't sell nearly enough to even make the needle twitch.

Edited January 14, 2021 by balthazar

[ocnblu]

8 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ Ugh. I suspect the continual shift to SUVs/CUVs is a prime driver here; they're always more expensive that the equivalent sedan.
I'd say BE's are a huge upward price wedge, but they don't sell nearly enough to even make the needle twitch.

This is the "price parity" we've been told would happen... ICE vehicle MSRP are inflated, then OEMs can point out to sheeple "SEE HOW AFFORDABLE EV ARE?  BUY ONE!"

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, David said:

Easy today, the winter storm fried all the pumps at the Shell Station in my Neighborhood. All 12 pumps dead till further notice according to the sign. Yet when I ran to get the grocery shopping done for my senior parents at Fred Meyers which was out of power this morning also, the Tesla Super Charger station was fully functional this afternoon.

That's not a comparable situation because 1. the entire station is out of order and 2. you would see this on your app if this was a charging station so you wouldn't be wasting your time hopping from charger to charger trying to find a working one. The issue is the user doesn't know the station doesn't have 100% working chargers until you try them out. 

[G. David Felt]

8 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That's not a comparable situation because 1. the entire station is out of order and 2. you would see this on your app if this was a charging station so you wouldn't be wasting your time hopping from charger to charger trying to find a working one. The issue is the user doesn't know the station doesn't have 100% working chargers until you try them out. 

The Jackson mart was still open for business with power. The pumps are down. This is a valid comparison as I have seen other gas stations that due to unknown reasons had no pumps working too and not weather related.

Here be it gas or ev stations, they seem to be updated on apps that show what is functional and the few times I have seen state run chargers that did not work, they were clearly noted both physically on the charging port and in apps. 

Maybe just a difference between the west coast which is far ahead of the rest of the nation and Washington state that mandates having this info current on apps for users.

[A Horse With No Name]

 

[ccap41]

4 hours ago, David said:

The Jackson mart was still open for business with power. The pumps are down. This is a valid comparison as I have seen other gas stations that due to unknown reasons had no pumps working too and not weather related.

Here be it gas or ev stations, they seem to be updated on apps that show what is functional and the few times I have seen state run chargers that did not work, they were clearly noted both physically on the charging port and in apps. 

Maybe just a difference between the west coast which is far ahead of the rest of the nation and Washington state that mandates having this info current on apps for users.

Do some pumps pump at(hypothetical numbers here) 100 gallons per minutes, 30 gallons per minute, 85 gallons per minute, and 15 gallons per minute?

Apparently you having entire gas stations out of service is not "far ahead" of the rest of the country considering I have never stumbled upon such a scenario. 

[balthazar]

Me either, thru-out NJ and southern NY. Only have noticed a single out-of-order pump once every 5 or 7 years, it seems. It's more common I feel to see a pump that was obviously struck and inoperable, vs. just 'not working'. NJ is pretty on top of public stuff like this, in most cases. I believe they're near the top in road repair/maintenance per mile.

Seems WA needs some infrastructure upgrades!

[oldshurst442]

The state of New Jersey is responsible for the upkeep of privately owned gasoline stations? 

29 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Me either, thru-out NJ and southern NY. Only have noticed a single out-of-order pump once every 5 or 7 years, it seems. It's more common I feel to see a pump that was obviously struck and inoperable, vs. just 'not working'. NJ is pretty on top of public stuff like this, in most cases. I believe they're near the top in road repair/maintenance per mile.

Seems WA needs some infrastructure upgrades!

 

[balthazar]

No; of course not. But it seems to go hand-in-hand. Maybe. Sort of. I don't know.
This state blows thru money like it's getting pumped into 10,000 giant incinerators, by the truckload, by the hour.

[oldshurst442]

Im confused.

What does the state of NJ and blowing a shyte ton of money have to do with privately owned gasoline stations in NJ being 100% fully functional and operational 100% of the time? 

I get you with the blowing of tax payers money as Quebec is not a stranger to that, but other than a Quebec provincial inspection from time to time to see that Quebec gasoline station owners do NOT screw the consumer over and  that the pumps and the pay meter are in sync, the government does not meddle.  Gas taxes and displacement taxes not withstanding. 

But I gotta admit, gasoline pumps in Montreal are pretty darned reliable.  I havent come across too many non-functional pumps. Maybe a dozen.  At the most. Its not as if the other pumps werent functional or available at that very station anyway...  

But to harp on charging stations for EVs is kinda stretching it.  

If an owner of a charging station operates with shytty and faulty chargers, HE is the one that WILL lose money in the end.  Its kinda like a monopoly now, I guess.  But a business opportunity to own and operate a shyte ton of these in the near future  is quite promising.   And when there is competition...

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by oldshurst442