Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, David said:

I was also surprised by that info, not sure why the maintenance is still so high. Be interesting to learn what they have on the truck that is requiring so much maintenance.

You have to read press releases defensively; all OEM-sourced info is run thru a marketing department before you read it. Every piece is carefully worded to create the bottom line- new potential buyers. Journalism is the same way from a different angle; they'll pump anything new because they want buzz to create readership (potential buyers).

EVs have to attempt to conquer the 97.4% of the market that hasn't chosen their game. Sure; a lot of it is pricing... but there's other, numerous, tangible obstacles. With the upside down fiscal yoke EVs carry from the start, you can bet the marketing is going to pump whatever vague advantage they can get away with. Reminds me of the noise aspect : EVs are being legislated to produce artificial noise up to 18-some MPH, because ALL vehicles above that make the same noise; tire and wind noise. There's no discernible engine noise from a Malibu at 30 MPH. You can barely hear it idling standing right in front of it. Yet the EV press trumpets 'SILENCE!!'

How often are you driving under 18 MPH on a given day?? It's an intangible.

Bottom line IMO; the advantages of EVs over IC are a laboratory best-case scenario that many buyers will never come close to. And that's just the nature of commercial products.

[USA-1]

9 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

 

In a truck frame of mind...love this just fine as ICE...worth every moment to watch. 

 

 

I watched this episode when it originally aired. Pretty badass Power Wagon!

 

[USA-1]

Right now, fossil fuels, namely gasoline and diesel, are still the easiest, quickest way to fuel up your vehicle. Comparably sized ICE vehicles are still much less expensive up front than a BEV counterpart. Li-ion battery technology has gotten much better and costs continue to come down, but they still need some work. 

EVSE Infrastructure is also still not where it needs to be and it hasn't changed a whole lot from 5 years ago when I was with Blink Network (an EVSE Manf. and Distributor based in Phoenix) back in 2015. It still just doesn't pencil out for most people as a daily driver, here in the U.S. as least. Until you own and live with one like I did you don't know what it means to make the move to an EV. It's a totally different life and you often have to schedule your day around your EV and charging station locations, so there's always going to be range anxiety for a BEV daily driver. It's really a necessity, similar to how a private pilot plots their flight plan for fuel stops at airports along a given route. 

On the other hand, GM's Ultium batteries use a high level of nickel, an obvious expensive precious metal and I'm curious to see if they found a way to quickly charge the batteries with a higher level of nickel content that maybe extends the battery life.

GM also just released "Ultium Drive" their in house EV drive division. It's not surprising why Honda Motor Co. and Nikola Corp. are partnering up with GM for their Ultium product line.  

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2020/09/16/gm-introduces-ultium-drive/5814405002/

[A Horse With No Name]

9 hours ago, USA-1 said:

 

On the other hand, GM's Ultium batteries use a high level of nickel, an obvious expensive precious metal and I'm curious to see if they found a way to quickly charge the batteries with a higher level of nickel content that maybe extends the battery life.

GM also just released "Ultium Drive" their in house EV drive division. It's not surprising why Honda Motor Co. and Nikola Corp. are partnering up with GM for their Ultium product line.  

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2020/09/16/gm-introduces-ultium-drive/5814405002/

I do see GM as a leader in developing this tech....hence my previous comment about a BEV Blazer. I think it would be kick  ass!!

[G. David Felt]

14 hours ago, USA-1 said:

Right now, fossil fuels, namely gasoline and diesel, are still the easiest, quickest way to fuel up your vehicle. Comparably sized ICE vehicles are still much less expensive up front than a BEV counterpart. Li-ion battery technology has gotten much better and costs continue to come down, but they still need some work. 

EVSE Infrastructure is also still not where it needs to be and it hasn't changed a whole lot from 5 years ago when I was with Blink Network (an EVSE Manf. and Distributor based in Phoenix) back in 2015. It still just doesn't pencil out for most people as a daily driver, here in the U.S. as least. Until you own and live with one like I did you don't know what it means to make the move to an EV. It's a totally different life and you often have to schedule your day around your EV and charging station locations, so there's always going to be range anxiety for a BEV daily driver. It's really a necessity, similar to how a private pilot plots their flight plan for fuel stops at airports along a given route. 

On the other hand, GM's Ultium batteries use a high level of nickel, an obvious expensive precious metal and I'm curious to see if they found a way to quickly charge the batteries with a higher level of nickel content that maybe extends the battery life.

GM also just released "Ultium Drive" their in house EV drive division. It's not surprising why Honda Motor Co. and Nikola Corp. are partnering up with GM for their Ultium product line.  

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2020/09/16/gm-introduces-ultium-drive/5814405002/

I agree that the compliance EVs are NOT a daily use for anything auto, but as called a Compliance auto for select states and where one has to plan on charging. 

The charging infrastructure continues to get better daily and will continue to do so faster in those states embracing it compared to those resisting change.

I honestly think 2021 will be the start of major change with a large up tick in EV's as we see multiple options in much larger sized EVs with long range battery packs and the start of solid state batteries showing up also in EVs.

Also as you posted and I posted with the videos from GMs news release earlier in this thread, the Ultium Drive power train family is very solid tech and as the video shows, you can see how they have solutions for FWD, RWD, and AWD. I see a much larger simplification of maintenance with this new power train family.

Biggest question is do they properly market them to sell and train their dealerships as the slow adoption of the Volt / Bolt has been the lack of training and marketing.

Interesting times we live in.

[G. David Felt]

At the Ground Breaking Ceremony for the All New Ford F-150 EV, Ford released the first of the official images of the new electric F-150. Also additional video of their electric truck doing trailer loaded testing. They also released a image of the new expansion at the Rouge plant.

As stated by the press, end to end lighting is the theme for EV trucks / SUVs it seems as the Hummer also will have this as does the Rivian auto's.

https://electrek.co/2020/09/17/ford-f150-electric-pickup-testing-footage-impressive-performance/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/the-electric-ford-f-150-will-be-the-fastest-most-powerful-f-150-ever/ar-BB198YXb?ocid=uxbndlbing

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/heres-what-the-electric-ford-f-150-looks-like

[USA-1]

1 hour ago, David said:

I agree that the compliance EVs are NOT a daily use for anything auto, but as called a Compliance auto for select states and where one has to plan on charging. 

The charging infrastructure continues to get better daily and will continue to do so faster in those states embracing it compared to those resisting change.

I honestly think 2021 will be the start of major change with a large up tick in EV's as we see multiple options in much larger sized EVs with long range battery packs and the start of solid state batteries showing up also in EVs.

Also as you posted and I posted with the videos from GMs news release earlier in this thread, the Ultium Drive power train family is very solid tech and as the video shows, you can see how they have solutions for FWD, RWD, and AWD. I see a much larger simplification of maintenance with this new power train family.

Biggest question is do they properly market them to sell and train their dealerships as the slow adoption of the Volt / Bolt has been the lack of training and marketing.

Interesting times we live in.

GM and other automakers do not market their EV's much at all, maybe that will change. I think GM's marketing dept. is told to push to the masses what moves on the lots even though that seems counter intuitive, no real need to market them as much if they are selling well. That was the biggest reason for the Volt's demise and the ELR as well, a horrible marketing campaign, even though the ELR was also priced too high for it's class. The Voltec powertrain was great and really the best technology for the current "fueling" infrastructure we have.

We shall see what The General comes up with for the marketing campaign of the new Cadillac IQ line of BEV's and what they do with the Silverado/Sierra e trucks in the coming months or years. They have more skin in the game now, so it should be a much different show.

[A Horse With No Name]

 

[G. David Felt]

 

[G. David Felt]

Lucid Air has beat Tesla Plaid record set last year at Laguna Seca race track.

Tesla using their yet to be released Plaid power train set a Laguna record of 1:36.55

Lucid set the new course record at Laguna in 1:33.00

I wonder if GM will go after this record with their Ultium Power Train family?

https://electrek.co/2020/09/18/lucid-beats-tesla-model-s-plaid-prototype-on-racetrack-with-its-own-tri-motor-air-test-vehicle/

[G. David Felt]

Labor Party in the UK wants to change the ban on new ICE auto sales from the current 2025 to 2030. This will require that the Labor party get the conservative party to join in making this change which would also help the UK meet their Paris accord for reduction in air pollution.

Originally the Conservative party had passed banning ICE auto's starting in 2040, but due to changes in ICE production in the country, companies like Honda moving production to the US as well as other auto company changes, the Conservatives changed this to 2035 to match when certain auto companies will leave the UK.

A growing base of Businesses and city councils are calling for a more ambitious phase-out policy of stopping all Petrol, Diesel, Hybrid and Van sales within the UK.

The UK has avoided brown out this crazy year with work from home and pandemic lock downs due to the Tesla battery stations they have been installing across the country. Microsoft has moved their data center to below the ocean to reduce power needs for cooling, etc.

The move to natural sounds, cleaner air and a better over all life style seems to be driving this change in the UK.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

https://electrek.co/2020/09/18/egeb-uk-ice-cars-2030-microsoft-data-center/#more-147706

[G. David Felt]

Cadillac has their current Franchise agreement expiring in November. GM worked with the Franchise Dealer Council in writing up the new agreement.

This new agreement has EV's set out as a sub section of the Cadillac dealership and will require a $200,000 investment in tools for the service center, updated displays, sales training, and charging stations plus more. The dealers will have to follow the franchise agreement to the T if they want to sell the new Cadillac EV line of Auto's.

Cadillac has also made it clear that if you want to stay a Cadillac Dealer, you will have to make this investment otherwise GM and the dealership will part ways this November.

The $200,000 is a minimum and all the upgrades must be done by the end of the second quarter of 2021.

This will support Cadillac as it leads the company in becoming the first division to be pure electric with their first auto's being the Lyriq SUV and the Celestig hand-built flagship sedan.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/cadillac-ev-dealers-investment/

https://www.autonews.com/dealers/cadillac-requiring-dealers-make-200000-upgrades-evs?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[G. David Felt]

Kia anounced this week their business plan to become a leading global EV brand. Kia is working to install supporting Fast Charging systems across the world. They have dedicated to install 2,400 chargers in Europe and 500 in North America in their dealer network. They are also working with various EV charging networks and gas stations to install infrastructure to support rapid fast charging.

Quote:

• Kia reveals first stage of future product plans – seven new dedicated BEVs to launch by 2027 across several vehicle segments
• Brand’s first dedicated BEV, codenamed CV, to launch in 2021 and reveal Kia’s new design direction
• BEVs to account for 25% of Kia global vehicle sales by 2029
• Kia to work with worldwide network to expand EV charging infrastructures
• Full BEV lineup will establish Kia’s position as a leading EV brand in the market

https://www.kiamedia.com/us/en/media/pressreleases/16703/kia-motors-accelerates-business-transformation-to-become-a-leading-ev-brand

 

[ocnblu]

So they're forcing dealers, who've so far stuck with them (amazingly enough) to waste $200k?  I can see Cadillac losing a crapload more dealers with GM's extortion.  Ruinous!

[balthazar]

14 hours ago, David said:

Kia anounced...
a leading EV brand in the market.

More feel-good marketing spin. EVERY brand out there has -or will in the next 11 minutes- claim the very same thing.

[Robert Hall]

29 minutes ago, balthazar said:

More feel-good marketing spin. EVERY brand out there has -or will in the next 11 minutes- claim the very same thing.

Cynical, but true..

[A Horse With No Name]

 

22 hours ago, balthazar said:

More feel-good marketing spin. EVERY brand out there has -or will in the next 11 minutes- claim the very same thing.

Whatever happened with the self driving cars everyone promised?

And as for the Canoo....maybe Blu can take his Canoo When he goes with his Canoe to go hiking...but I am sure it would haul a kayak also. 

Obligatory ICE in the Electric thread...

 

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by A Horse With No Name

[Robert Hall]

38 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

 

Whatever happened with the self driving cars everyone promised?

 

2020 happened.  Check back in 10 years.

[ocnblu]

I don't anticipate it will happen, but what if GM can harness their old design magic in these Unobtainium EV? (or whatever they're called).

 

The Cadillac station wagon they've previewed is sort of meh in the video.

[Robert Hall]

2 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

I don't anticipate it will happen, but what if GM can harness their old design magic in these Unobtainium EV? (or whatever they're called). 

Alas, I think that era is long past...GM seems more content to coast on mediocrity and genericism in design these days.  

[A Horse With No Name]

51 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Alas, I think that era is long past...GM seems more content to coast on mediocrity and genericism in design these days.  

Agree entirely. Look at how KIA and Hyundai are leading in SUV's. The only thing that might save north American truck production is if Rivian or Tesla can build EV';s. Otherwise, sadly, I think eventually someone else will figure out how to capture even that market from the domestics. 

They are sort of Pigs, but even the Tundra is having a cult following. 

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Alas, I think that era is long past...GM seems more content to coast on mediocrity and genericism in design these days.  

Hopefully the Hummer by GMC can change that by starting a stylistic trend away from coasting mediocrity of blah design. 

Chevrolet trucks is a perfect example of an ugly brick design that just screams HELL NO!

[balthazar]

SIlverado, Corvette, CT5, Escalade, Malibu, upcoming Hummer, Camaro, still the Enclave.... plenty of striking design out of GM these days relative to the industry. Certainly not 'mediocre' compared to the competition. What; Nissan? Toyoter? BMW?

I think not.

Compare styling- who's mediocre?

Edited September 20, 2020 by balthazar

[balthazar]

The industry has GREATLY homogenized stylistically, more now than in the last 70 years.

And as the vast majority of amenities spreads down thru the cheapest lines of vehicles, the reason for so many different vehicles (platforms / sizes) becomes more & more irrelevant. The industry doesn't need Car B to 'fill the space' between car A and Car C, it needs to INCREASE the physical gaps; make Car A and Car D.

Having 6 CUVs spaced 10 inches apart with slightly rearranged visual clues costs BILLIONS... when where the industry should be going is more like 3 CUVs that are distinctly different. THis better supports significant pricing tiers, and finally admits no one NEEDS a CUV that's 8 inches shorter than the one they're staring at on the lot right now.

[ocnblu]

The next big thing?

[A Horse With No Name]

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

SIlverado, Corvette, CT5, Escalade, Malibu, upcoming Hummer, Camaro, still the Enclave.... plenty of striking design out of GM these days relative to the industry. Certainly not 'mediocre' compared to the competition. What; Nissan? Toyoter? BMW?

I think not.

Compare styling- who's mediocre?

Both?

[Robert Hall]

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

SIlverado, Corvette, CT5, Escalade, Malibu, upcoming Hummer, Camaro, still the Enclave.... plenty of striking design out of GM these days relative to the industry. Certainly not 'mediocre' compared to the competition. What; Nissan? Toyoter? BMW?

I think not.

 

 

Let's see...the Silverado is hideous, the Corvette styling is derivative of every other mid engine sports car of the last 20 years with a few really odd details, the CT5 had bad C-pillar trim that ruins the profile, the new Escalade is dulled down up front and looks like an enlarged XT6, the Malibu is so bland it could get lost in an empty parking lot, the Camaro with it's chop top needs a periscope to see out, etc...lots of forgettable appliances otherwise...not much really stands out....it's.hardly GM's golden age of styling. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Robert Hall

[A Horse With No Name]

18 hours ago, David said:

Hopefully the Hummer by GMC can change that by starting a stylistic trend away from coasting mediocrity of blah design. 

Chevrolet trucks is a perfect example of an ugly brick design that just screams HELL NO!

This on the other hand is pure sex on wheels. Love GMC. 

 

5.3 L V8

[A Horse With No Name]

28 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Let's see...the Silverado is hideous, the Corvette styling is derivative of every other mid engine sports car of the last 20 years with a few really odd details, the CT5 had bad C-pillar trim that ruins the profile, the new Escalade is dulled down up front and looks like an enlarged XT6, the Malibu is so bland it could get lost in an empty parking lot, the Camaro with it's chop top needs a periscope to see out, etc...lots of forgettable appliances otherwise...not much really stands out....it's.hardly GM's golden age of styling. 

There is not a single GM product right now I would personally choose over the competition. New Vette is well recieved, but would rather personally have a Shelby Mustang. I don't trust cylinder de activation tech in the Dodge of GM V8's,  lots of reasons I wouldn't buy any of them. 

Would buy a TRD V6 Camry over the wimpy 1.5L Malibu so fast it would make your head spin. 

Actually Blazer and Colorado would be where I would most like to put my money were I to buy GM.

Would kind of love to rock a ZR2 Colorado. But would have to talk myself out of a Gladiator Rubicon first. 

I do think GM will have good battery EV tech. 

But doing this with any midsize truck....Glaidator, Ranger, Colroado, Tacoma...would be Epic. Leaving out ridgeline because its AWD system is more oriented to on road use. 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm with @A Horse With No Name, the only things at GM I really like are the Sierra Denali and the Escalade.  The rest of Cadillac's lineup is lost on me now that the CT6 is dead. I think the new Suburban/Tahoe/Yukons are fuuuu-gly.  The GMC crossovers are terrible. I suppose I could do an Enclave if I had to, but there are other options from other manufacturers I'd pick first. 

[balthazar]

The above posts kinda splits the point. Under the topic of ‘mediocre design’, there are a bunch of vehicles I like that I still wouldn’t buy; I need/want a large truck: just because I wouldn’t buy a Corvette doesn’t mean I can’t find it highly appealing stylistically. Conversely, one can buy something they don’t find particularly striking visually. 
And what if I’m in love with 6 or 8 different vehicles?
 

Buying or not buying is secondary to the discussion. I LOVE the Sierra Denali’s looks, but I’m not buying one.
 

Once everything is mediocre, nothing is.

Edited September 21, 2020 by balthazar

[ccap41]

On 9/20/2020 at 9:59 AM, A Horse With No Name said:

Agree entirely. Look at how KIA and Hyundai are leading in SUV's. The only thing that might save north American truck production is if Rivian or Tesla can build EV';s. Otherwise, sadly, I think eventually someone else will figure out how to capture even that market from the domestics. 

They are sort of Pigs, but even the Tundra is having a cult following. 

Did you forget about the Electric F-150?

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-ford-f-150-electric-everything-we-know/

[G. David Felt]

I do find it bothersome that Ford has continually slipped on when they will have their electric F-150 out in production. Now according to Detroit Press, production is to begin in mid 2022 as a 2023 model?

This would put them behind Rivian, Tesla, GM and who knows who else.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2020/09/17/ford-invests-rouge-electric-f-150-uaw/5819541002/

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'm with @A Horse With No Name, the only things at GM I really like are the Sierra Denali and the Escalade.  The rest of Cadillac's lineup is lost on me now that the CT6 is dead. I think the new Suburban/Tahoe/Yukons are fuuuu-gly.  The GMC crossovers are terrible. I suppose I could do an Enclave if I had to, but there are other options from other manufacturers I'd pick first. 

Not my cupoftea....but my sister just Bought an Escalade. It pulls off the big square body look well, and is a great vehicle. Happy for her...but what she spent would buy a Gladiator Rubicon or a Ford Raptor. 

11 minutes ago, David said:

I do find it bothersome that Ford has continually slipped on when they will have their electric F-150 out in production. Now according to Detroit Press, production is to begin in mid 2022 as a 2023 model?

This would put them behind Rivian, Tesla, GM and who knows who else.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2020/09/17/ford-invests-rouge-electric-f-150-uaw/5819541002/

They will get it right, and sell plenty. Being the First to market isn't always the best. Google Dehaviland Comet....British had an advantage in Jet passenger air travel....until initial design flaws were revealed. Beoing took the lead and never looked back....until the current fiascos with the 737 MAX. 

Rivan and Tesla suing each other, that won't end well at all for either of them. 

23 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Did you forget about the Electric F-150?

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-ford-f-150-electric-everything-we-know/

No. I think it will be a good product. It's just that fullsize trucks are so lucrative that I think the market will become even more competitive and see new players in the segment eventually. 

31 minutes ago, balthazar said:

The above posts kinda splits the point. Under the topic of ‘mediocre design’, there are a bunch of vehicles I like that I still wouldn’t buy; I need/want a large truck: just because I wouldn’t buy a Corvette doesn’t mean I can’t find it highly appealing stylistically. Conversely, one can buy something they don’t find particularly striking visually. 
And what if I’m in love with 6 or 8 different vehicles?
 

Buying or not buying is secondary to the discussion. I LOVE the Sierra Denali’s looks, but I’m not buying one.
 

Once everything is mediocre, nothing is.

I am saying from a design standpoint, I don't really see them as being above the curve in any real tangible way. I damn sure wouldn't buy a Telluride but a hell of a lot of consumers would take it (and rightfully so) over anything in its segment from Ford, GM, or even Toyota. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by A Horse With No Name

[A Horse With No Name]

On a happier note...

 

 

Still love ICE...would take the Gladiator over the Tacoma. 

 

More ICE love

[balthazar]

Yeah, but design doesn’t have to be ‘ahead of the curve’ to NOT be mediocre... unless you think the median industry desogn level is mediocre.

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, David said:

I do find it bothersome that Ford has continually slipped on when they will have their electric F-150 out in production. Now according to Detroit Press, production is to begin in mid 2022 as a 2023 model?

This would put them behind Rivian, Tesla, GM and who knows who else.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2020/09/17/ford-invests-rouge-electric-f-150-uaw/5819541002/

"late 2022" for the cybertruck is the same exact quarter as the F150.

Rivian is the only one to have an edge in getting things out early and it sounds like it'll be roughly 18 months before Tesla or Ford have theirs in production. 

GM? What EV truck do they have? I hope you're not comparing trucks to the Hummer SUV..? 

If that's the case, GM is behind all of them as Ford already has the MachE, obviously Tesla has the X and Y already out, and Rivian's SUV seems to be on the heels of their truck. 

[A Horse With No Name]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

"late 2022" for the cybertruck is the same exact quarter as the F150.

Rivian is the only one to have an edge in getting things out early and it sounds like it'll be roughly 18 months before Tesla or Ford have theirs in production. 

GM? What EV truck do they have? I hope you're not comparing trucks to the Hummer SUV..? 

If that's the case, GM is behind all of them as Ford already has the MachE, obviously Tesla has the X and Y already out, and Rivian's SUV seems to be on the heels of their truck. 

Cybertruck and electric F150 will both be hits for the right market IMHO. Rivian seems to have no problem getting deposits. 

56 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Yeah, but design doesn’t have to be ‘ahead of the curve’ to NOT be mediocre... unless you think the median industry desogn level is mediocre.

I think GM is going to ahve a hard time winning new buyers with current designs. Nothing they build is currently something I want to own either....but Kia and Hyundai seem to be doing a damn fine job brining out products that appeal to mainstream Americans.  They are both a hell of a lot more modern than Toyota or Honda. Nissan is way....way....exceedingtly and excessively...behind the curve in so many ways. 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

"late 2022" for the cybertruck is the same exact quarter as the F150.

Rivian is the only one to have an edge in getting things out early and it sounds like it'll be roughly 18 months before Tesla or Ford have theirs in production. 

GM? What EV truck do they have? I hope you're not comparing trucks to the Hummer SUV..? 

If that's the case, GM is behind all of them as Ford already has the MachE, obviously Tesla has the X and Y already out, and Rivian's SUV seems to be on the heels of their truck. 

Hummer by GMC Truck reveal is Oct 20th 2020 with production set to begin first half 2021 on sale summer 2021. That is still way ahead of Ford now. As Ford had originally stated Summer 2021 on sale and it slipped to production start late 2021 and now late 2022. Like Tesla, they seemed to have slipped big time. I wonder if this is due to ramping up battery production which was also an issue with Tesla.

GM / LG battery production will help them deliver far more reliably I think than others.

Will have to see as I do expect Rivian to deliver their truck first, then GM and then is a toss up between Ford and Tesla.

[G. David Felt]

GMC is not bad looking, Hyundai Tuscon I think is solid, Chevrolet just so blah. I think the Hybrid of the Tuscon is a winner. Hoping it will beat the Toyota Rav4 Hybrid, but Toyota does lead in this segment.

2021 GMC Terrain CUV

2022/2021 Tuscon Hybrid / ICE

2021 Chevrolet Equinox

[ccap41]

37 minutes ago, David said:

Hummer by GMC Truck reveal is Oct 20th 2020 with production set to begin first half 2021 on sale summer 2021. That is still way ahead of Ford now. As Ford had originally stated Summer 2021 on sale and it slipped to production start late 2021 and now late 2022. Like Tesla, they seemed to have slipped big time. I wonder if this is due to ramping up battery production which was also an issue with Tesla.

GM / LG battery production will help them deliver far more reliably I think than others.

Will have to see as I do expect Rivian to deliver their truck first, then GM and then is a toss up between Ford and Tesla.

I guess I completely forgot about the profile reveal and that there is a bed to it. 

Yeah, it sounds roughly 14-18 months ahead of Ford's.

I don't know about you but I have a feeling the Hummer will be a pretty decent step up in pricing than the F150, but that's just guessing. 

I don't believe Ford ever said the all electric would be on sale Summer 2021. That's probably their hybrid you're thinking of. 

"All a Ford spokesperson would tell Car and Driver is that the all-electric F-150 will arrive "in a few years" and that we will have to keep waiting for an announcement about specific timing."

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28947992/electric-ford-f-150-2021-planned/ 

[G. David Felt]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

I guess I completely forgot about the profile reveal and that there is a bed to it. 

Yeah, it sounds roughly 14-18 months ahead of Ford's.

I don't know about you but I have a feeling the Hummer will be a pretty decent step up in pricing than the F150, but that's just guessing. 

I don't believe Ford ever said the all electric would be on sale Summer 2021. That's probably their hybrid you're thinking of. 

"All a Ford spokesperson would tell Car and Driver is that the all-electric F-150 will arrive "in a few years" and that we will have to keep waiting for an announcement about specific timing."

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28947992/electric-ford-f-150-2021-planned/ 

I also wonder how fast GM will roll out the Chevrolet Silverado EV truck since it will be produced in the same assembly line.

[ocnblu]

In due time.  There's a whole lotta brainwashing ahead for the general public to give a rat's ass about EV.  Manufacturers would be foolish to intro an EV truck in the next twenty-five years or so.  After that, MAYBE.

[A Horse With No Name]

5 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

In due time.  There's a whole lotta brainwashing ahead for the general public to give a rat's ass about EV.  Manufacturers would be foolish to intro an EV truck in the next twenty-five years or so.  After that, MAYBE.

Exactly why I see Tesla everywhere around here.

5 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

In due time.  There's a whole lotta brainwashing ahead for the general public to give a rat's ass about EV.  Manufacturers would be foolish to intro an EV truck in the next twenty-five years or so.  After that, MAYBE.

Exactly why I see Tesla everywhere around here.

[ocnblu]

?

?

[Drew Dowdell]

6 hours ago, balthazar said:

The above posts kinda splits the point. Under the topic of ‘mediocre design’, there are a bunch of vehicles I like that I still wouldn’t buy; I need/want a large truck: just because I wouldn’t buy a Corvette doesn’t mean I can’t find it highly appealing stylistically. Conversely, one can buy something they don’t find particularly striking visually. 
And what if I’m in love with 6 or 8 different vehicles?
 

Buying or not buying is secondary to the discussion. I LOVE the Sierra Denali’s looks, but I’m not buying one.
 

Once everything is mediocre, nothing is.

My comments like above should always be prefaced with the "If life allowed".  I'm not buying a Denali because I can't afford one.  I'm not buying a CT6 because it high centers on my driveway.  A large three-row could conceivably be in my future, but I can name a few I would buy before the Enclave. I liked the ELR as a potential commuter for Albert, but without AWD and with having the haul his parents, it's a no-go. 

What I was saying was those vehicles are the only GMs on the list that would even get the attention from me to buy if I was in the position to do so. 

[Robert Hall]

I like the CT6 and CTS...I could see buying a used one...like the interior and exterior design of both.  I can appreciate the styling of the Yukon Denali but I have don't need a full size SUV.   They don't have any midsize 2 row SUVs I'd consider over a JGC.    The Camaro sounds great as far as the hardware, but the lack of outward visibility, cramped interior, and some styling details make it unappealing to me compared to the Challenger or Mustang.   I can appreciate the Corvette for it's performance, like some of the styling aspects, but the rear end is a real turn off in person and in pictures.  I'd like to drive one, though. 

The Colorado and Canyon seem like nice trucks, decent styling, but I'm not a truck guy.

As far as a new vehicle, I can't think of anything current from GM I'd seriously consider in my price range, maybe a couple as CPOs.  

Edited September 22, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

Drew ::  I understand what you're saying, but the question wasn't 'what vehicles can't navigate your driveway?'; it was addressing a claim that GM 'needs a stylistic trend away from coasting mediocrity of blah design'.

I personally don't see GM design today being anything less than on par with the competition, or in some cases exceeding it.

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Manufacturers would be foolish to intro an EV truck in the next twenty-five years or so.  After that, MAYBE.

On the point of potential sales in the short run, I agree.
However, in that the industry is moving in that direction, AS LONG AS there are IC trucks alongside an EV trim, I'm fine with that. With global market share at 2.6%, it's not likely IC is going anywhere in our lifetime. EV sales will piddle along in the short run- those that want one can pony up & hopefully be happy. The long run is anyone's guess.

Edited September 22, 2020 by balthazar

[Drew Dowdell]

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ I understand what you're saying, but the question wasn't 'what vehicles can't navigate your driveway?'; it was addressing a claim that GM 'needs a stylistic trend away from coasting mediocrity of blah design'.

I personally don't see GM design today being anything less than on par with the competition, or in some cases exceeding it.

Well, you already know my opinion on the CT6... I'd have one in an instant if I could.  I still think it is one of the most handsome designs to come out of GM in a generation.  My point was aside from those... the Denali, the Escalade, the CT6, possibly Enclave.... there is nothing at GM that lights my fire.  They're either mediocre (the rest of the Cadillac/Buick lineup) or they're UGLY (half the Silverado lineup, all of the Chevy/GMC full-size SUVs).  I had a Terrain Denali 2.0T last year as a tester and it's a perfectly competent vehicle, but the outside is just so homely....  I would pick the Pilot, Cherokee, or CX5 over it based on looks alone. The Acadia looks like someone grafted a Sierra front clip onto the earlier version of the crossover and it just doesn't work.   Is there a more "bar of soap" crossover out there than the Equinox?  Three way tie with the new Escape and the Model-Y for that title?  The Blazer isn't too bad from the front, but they used all of the styling budget up there and had none left for the rear.  The Corvette is cool I guess, but so far out of my wheelhouse as to not register as a real car. 

[Robert Hall]

Every year in recent years I've tried to sit in and check out a variety of new vehicles at the annual local dealer auto show, and the #1 thing I find as a turn off about many new GM vehicles (under $50k or so) are the damn despair gray or charcoal/black GM interiors...so dour and bland, bland, bland.  It's better than the Tupperware/Fisher Price shit they had in the 90s-00s, but still nothing special in the design or materials, IMO.  

Of course, not to knock on GM only, but pretty much everything 'cheap' (< $50k)  these days has a gray or charcoal plastic interior.  Some execute the plastics better than others, though.   

Edited September 22, 2020 by Robert Hall