Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

This seems like something that could or would benefit nearly everybody. It seems like a fantastic idea and I'm pretty surprised it is just now being "invented" or maybe just not being executed. 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/wheeltug-airplane-taxi-motor-ev-technology/

" With a novel electric AC induction motor driving a plane's nose-gear wheels, considerable time can be saved during pushback, taxiing, and even passenger loading. And here's the hook that for electric cars or trucks: the motor's unique design can deliver enough torque to get a 200,000-lbs aircraft rolling while providing light weight and high performance at higher taxiing speeds. In essence, it emulates a gearless "virtual transmission."

 

The motor's innovative winding allows its controller to vary the number of phases, magnetic poles, and alternating current frequency—for example, from the typical AC three-phase, to as many as 12 or 18. This allows it to efficiently deliver the torque of a DC permanent magnet motor while providing the lighter weight, lower cost, and improved performance of an AC-induction motor at higher operating speeds.

Flying Hybrids Mean Big Savings

If this all rings a faint bell among our longtime readers, that's because we covered the technology in a November, 2008 Technologue column titled "Flying Hybrids!" The "mesh-connected windings" and "fundamental harmonics" at play in this motor were developed by Gibraltar-based Chorus Motors, which has been patiently working to commercialize the technology via its subsidiary WheelTug since well before that 2008 column. Company CEO Isaiah Cox is now reasonably certain final flight certification will be granted by the end of 2021, with new production and retrofit installations beginning in early 2022. A grand demonstration is scheduled at the Memphis International Airport in mid-September.

WheelTug has been demonstrated on airplanes large (Boeing 767) and small (737), with electricity always coming from the standard auxiliary power unit (no batteries need be added). Now the company is targeting shorter-haul narrow-body aircraft like the 737 and Airbus A320. Here's how WheelTug promises to save fuel and time on a typical flight:

 

 

• Eliminate the wait for "wing-walkers" and a tug operator to arrive, connect the tug to the nose gear, attach the communications link, and push back.
• Eliminate the time to disconnect the above and clear ramp personnel and vehicles from the area.
• Begin taxiing immediately, with no need to hold for jet-blast reasons.
• Start engines only in time to warm them before takeoff.
• Land and almost immediately shut off the engines, allowing them (and the brakes) to cool en route to the gate so that ground crew can begin servicing/collecting luggage immediately upon arrival.
• Taxi right up to the gate, with no need for tow-in.

WheelTug pegs the average fuel savings at 36 gallons per flight and a time savings at 8.5 minutes in push-back alone, but more important is the higher predictability of all the time spent on the ground. Today push-back takes 13 minutes or more on two percent of flights, so total scheduled flight time must "bake in" extra time to preserve the airline's "on-time" reputation. (Note that time spent with engines idling during de-icing procedures aren't included in these estimates.)

To these, WheelTug forecasts further savings of $100 per flight for push-back fees and $95 in engine wear, while greatly reducing the opportunity for foreign-object damage from detritus sucked in off the runway and collisions caused by tug operators (aircraft movement is still directed from a tower, but the pilot remains in control while monitoring cameras views that afford complete situational awareness). And planes able to push back and taxi themselves will lose far less time "recovering" from weather delays that place a high demand on a limited number of tug vehicles and ramp personnel. "

Interesting article. It's not that this technology needed to be invented, the concept has been around since the 60's. It's just that no one had been able to make a business case for it (i.e. how much more efficient or powerful or light would introducing more phases make it cost effective?).  I can see multi-phase motors being a thing on planes, but I don't see a need to go to 12 or 18 in cars. Tesla has already shown that more power isn't an issue, so it would either be to be more efficient or lighter. 

That said, there are only incremental improvements to be made. Tesla might be able to get 5% more range by making a physically smaller motor more powerful and therefore weigh less. Having the motor virtually "shift" through 18 phases just to get up to 60 mph and back to zero probably isn't practical from a complexity standpoint. If I were to guess, 6 phases would be the most.

Three phase electric motors have been around forever.  The Volt has one, I believe (but cannot find proof for sure) that the Bolt has one. Telsas are all 3 phase (but the dual motor ones are different sizes, so there are effectively 6-phases in the car and the car can switch front to rear and back as needed).  So this technology is the EV equivalent of adding more gears to the transmission. 

In this video, you can hear the first 2 phases of a 3 phase motor accelerating. The third phase you'll never hear the switch because you're doing about 100mph at the time.

 

This is a later EuroSprinter with multi-phase motors.  They sound like a saxophone playing up the scale.

 

[G. David Felt]

Lucid Air Reveal Video off You Tube.

Some vary cool images showing their power train system and other details. Very cool stuff. They have truly stepped up from Tesla on what they are building. Some cool auto's coming and eventually the tech will trickle down to lower end models too I believe.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/09/10/lucid-air-three-motor-horsepower/#slide-2262821

Amazing that each of their motors can produce up to 670HP / 2950 lb-ft of torque and each motor only weights 161 lbs. 

No ICE can touch this.

More details on the Lucid SUV and it clearly will have the same motors for HP/Torque that the Air sedan will have. Very cool tech.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/09/09/lucid-motors-suv-electric-teaser-photos/#slide-2262272

[balthazar]

Hey! looks decent (if offbeat), range is very good, charge times are excellent- HURAH... well don—


ohshit, it's $170,000.

 

fckitnevrmnd.

[USA-1]

On 9/9/2020 at 7:34 AM, ykX said:

What bugs me the most as an engineer, as all these companies use Nicola Tesla name for their EVs, but he was a big proponent of AC current and designed AC motor, not DC batteries and DC motors they are using.  I don't think any of his ideas has to do anything with EV cars or trucks.

It's a mix of AC and DC motors in BEV's, Tesla and GM use both, sometimes at the same time. 3-Phase AC Induction traction motors are lighter, but more expensive (due to the large copper windings) and are better for high performance cars because they operate more smoothly than the brushless DC Permanent Magnet motors, but AC-I are generally less efficient than DC-PM.

The GM EV-1 had 3-Phase AC Induction motors and the Chevy Volt had 3-P AC-I motors as well, but the Chevy Bolt uses a permanent magnet synchronous motor (PMSM) that's similar to a brushless DC Permanent Magnet motor. GM BEV3 (Cadillac Lyriq, Celestiq, next gen. Bolt and others) and GM BT1XX (GMC Hummer EV, Silverado EV and others) off the T1XX are going even further so should be interesting. This is why GM expanded the interior dimensions of the bed walls of the T1XX trucks, you can see where they made room for the Ultium battery packs in future BT1XX trucks. 

Tesla actually uses both AC and DC in the "D" dual motor cars. They use what they call the "permanent magnet synchronous reluctance motor" (PMSRM) also similar to DC Perm. Mag. Model S and X use 3-P AC-I in the rear and PMSRM in the front on "D" models, but the Model 3 uses 3-P AC-I in the front and PMSRM in the rear. DC-PM motors generally produce more torque but are heavier, so it has to do with weight distribution as well.

All batteries are DC (Direct Current) that will never change.

 

https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2016-01-1228/

https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-platforms/bev3/

https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-platforms/bt1/

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/04/motor-technology-from-model-3-helps-tesla-boost-model-s-range-10/

 

[ccap41]

You're not forced into the highest, most expensive trim/model. 

It's rumored to start under $80,000.

[G. David Felt]

VW is not trying to hid the ID-6 or what is called the RoomZZ which is based on the ID Buzz concept minivan. VW is pushing ahead very fast to get their EV's out to the public for sale.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/09/08/vw-id-6-roomzz-spy-photos/#slide-2262123

Maserati is showing off their new module platform that will support their new EV product line as they sell existing ICE auto's but move over to performance / Luxury EV auto's. Maserati has already stated their EV's will be far more powerful than any ICE auto they have built and sold.

Maserati is very happy to state that this new modular platform was created to support both ICE and EV auto's. They will continue to sell the new auto's with their existing ICE power train line as they build out their EV portfolio. This allows Maserati to sell to everyone till the time comes in the next decade and folks focus just on EV's.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/09/10/maserati-mc20-electric-model-2023/

[G. David Felt]

So recent reports are focusing on where EV class 8 and EV medium duty trucks can have the biggest affect in helping to clean air, reduce CO2 creation, etc.

• Northern & Southern California
• Texas Triangle
• Cascadia - PNW
• Rocky Mountain Front Range
• The Northeast

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/new-report-identifies-high-priority-regions-for-electrifying-trucks/

VW has confirmed that the ID-4 CUV that the US will get will have a trailering option and that weight is 4,200 lbs. Equal to and in some cases exceeds CUV's in this size class.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/vws-id-4-electric-suv-will-have-towing-capability-elon-musk-drives-an-id-3-calls-it-pretty-good/

[G. David Felt]

General Motors’ Future Electric Vehicles to Debut Industry’s First Wireless Battery Management System

Technology developed in collaboration with Analog Devices, Inc.

GM has released more information on their EV's and how they will get to market faster. GM in development with Analog Devices company have developed a wireless management system that will allow a complete management of the battery system for all EV's GM builds. The benefit here is that it reduces complexity and speeds up time to market by allowing a common set of components across multiple vehicles. Scalability and complexity reduction are the focus of the Ultium batteries and EV's. This same wireless system also allows a secondary use for the batteries later in life.

https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2020/sep/0909-wbms.html

[G. David Felt]

India one of the worst countries for air quality has seen it improve lately due to the pandemic lock down. Yet as things open up, the amount of 2 stroke auto's pushing out clouds of smoke imply that the air will become choked again. As such the country ruling government is looking for ways to clean things up. That way is EV's in how they have aggressively dictated and are pushing people to buy EV's. This brings up another problem, EV charging. In India the bulk of Gas stations are State owned, as such, India is discussing mandating all gas stations to install high speed recharging islands.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129531_report-india-might-mandate-ev-chargers-at-69-000-state-owned-gas-stations

[ccap41]

That VW looks as awkwardly shaped as a Bolt. ??

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That VW looks as awkwardly shaped as a Bolt. ??

I would agree, not the best looking Minivan I have seen. I am honestly surprised that they did not stick to the Buzz concept as that seemed to have garnered rave reviews all over the glob. 

[G. David Felt]

GM has released their logo which also implies Crab Mode on the Hummer EV by GMC.

https://www.motor1.com/news/443456/gmc-hummer-ev-crab-mode-teased/

[ocnblu]

2 hours ago, David said:

all over the glob

[USA-1]

3 hours ago, David said:

India one of the worst countries for air quality has seen it improve lately due to the pandemic lock down. Yet as things open up, the amount of 2 stroke auto's pushing out clouds of smoke imply that the air will become choked again. As such the country ruling government is looking for ways to clean things up. That way is EV's in how they have aggressively dictated and are pushing people to buy EV's. This brings up another problem, EV charging. In India the bulk of Gas stations are State owned, as such, India is discussing mandating all gas stations to install high speed recharging islands.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129531_report-india-might-mandate-ev-chargers-at-69-000-state-owned-gas-stations

Ending ICE sales in India by 2030 is never going to happen, solid ambition though. India's lack of a decent electrical grid with constant power outages would be a huge problem with several different union and state owned supply grids that don't meet the high demand requirements for 69k more Commercial EVSE stations. Even large cities like Mumbai don't have a way to supply the necessary infrastructure that they would need to end ICE sales. Grid issues in India have been going on for years and I don't see much that has changed today.

Edited September 11, 2020 by USA-1

[Robert Hall]

Interesting news about Nikola...claims of faking and misrepresentation...

https://fortune.com/2020/09/10/nikola-motor-stock-hindenburg-research-allegations/

[G. David Felt]

45 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Ending ICE sales in India by 2030 is never going to happen, solid ambition though. India's lack of a decent electrical grid with constant power outages would be a huge problem with several different union and state owned supply grids that don't meet the high demand requirements for 69k more Commercial EVSE stations. Even large cities like Mumbai don't have a way to supply the necessary infrastructure that they would need to end ICE sales. Grid issues in India have been going on for years and I don't see much that has changed today.

Totally agree, our Dell office there that I had been to many times has a very solid multiple redundancies backup generators due to the poor power grid.

Gonna be interesting to see how they address this over the next 10 years.

Course with India looking to surpass the US in deaths and infections from Covid-19, part of the pressure could be due to population reduction which is sad in it's own right. Wish they would focus on getting their act together. Course I would say that about many countries including our own for better infrastructure.

[USA-1]

Very obvious why Nikola needs GM as a partner for their new Ultium battery packs coming out on BEV3 and BT1XX...

[ocnblu]

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/09/09/vw-id3-electric-car-panned-by-german-auto-motor-und-sport/?ncid=edlinkusauto00000016&fbclid=IwAR2b7X4yaebEw98PDGChAdmrmkG6j5iBmEgMjcXBgnUhv1-jaSB7bmk8HeY

[ccap41]

12 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Interesting news about Nikola...claims of faking and misrepresentation...

https://fortune.com/2020/09/10/nikola-motor-stock-hindenburg-research-allegations/

"The allegations come from Hindenburg Research, which has a short position in Nikola stock. " ?

[Drew Dowdell]

27 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

"The allegations come from Hindenburg Research, which has a short position in Nikola stock. " ?

Always follow the money....

[G. David Felt]

https://rivian.com/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=announcement&utm_campaign=building_towards_production&mcrid=R00A4E2D738466F4A4E951C922CCDA8482916807B0B#home-video

R1T's have started to roll off the assembly line.

[balthazar]

Interesting choice to go with only 5 lugs.

Still no ordering yet, only 'pre-ordering'.

Edited September 11, 2020 by balthazar

[ccap41]

57 minutes ago, David said:

https://rivian.com/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=announcement&utm_campaign=building_towards_production&mcrid=R00A4E2D738466F4A4E951C922CCDA8482916807B0B#home-video

R1T's have started to roll off the assembly line.

So when do they technically go on sale, now? 

Just now, balthazar said:

Interesting choice to go with only 5 lugs.

Why? Isn't it a mix/hybrid of mid-size and half ton? 

[balthazar]

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Why? Isn't it a mix/hybrid of mid-size and half ton? 

The competition (half-ton trucks) have all upgraded to 6 lug... a few generations ago now. 3/4-ton is 8-lug.

IDK what the weight category the R1T is going into...

Edited September 11, 2020 by balthazar

[ykX]

Doesn't look like a very fast assembly line ...

[G. David Felt]

@ccap41 According Rivian, Jan 2021 is when existing pre-order customers will get access to customize their R1T for building and delivery. 60 to 90 days after that, the sales will open up to everyone who is not a pre-order customer.

30 minutes ago, ykX said:

Doesn't look like a very fast assembly line ...

Mitsubishi built millions of auto's on that assembly line. Rivian has stated that they will start off slow to insure quality over quantity and speed things up as they get everyone trained.

[USA-1]

44 minutes ago, ykX said:

Doesn't look like a very fast assembly line ...

Yeah, the guys are trying to figure out where the extra bolts go that they have

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, David said:

@ccap41 According Rivian, Jan 2021 is when existing pre-order customers will get access to customize their R1T for building and delivery. 60 to 90 days after that, the sales will open up to everyone who is not a pre-order customer.

So the photo doesn't show production vehicles, but pre-production. Otherwise, how would pre-order people get to customize their truck if it's already built? So true production is at least a quarter away from now.

[ocnblu]

5 hours ago, ykX said:

Doesn't look like a very fast assembly line ...

No need

[balthazar]

^ high speed assembly line for a brand new $70K trucklette? Ocnblu is correct, sales are going to be a slim fraction of its competition. Only EV line moving at any speed of note is the Model 3.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

^ high speed assembly line for a brand new $70K trucklette? Ocnblu is correct, sales are going to be a slim fraction of its competition. Only EV line moving at any speed of note is the Model 3.

Using the Model 3 as an example of speedy production is a poor poor choice given the massive production issues and reliability issues that have dogged them since. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

I said 'speedy'; I didn't say 'good'.

JUST saw an article stating Model Y owners are finding composite lumber and zip ties under the front cargo area insert. Tesla- 12 years and still learning how to slip-slap cars together.

Edited September 12, 2020 by balthazar

[A Horse With No Name]

 

Thoughtful. 

On 9/11/2020 at 2:05 PM, David said:

@ccap41 According Rivian, Jan 2021 is when existing pre-order customers will get access to customize their R1T for building and delivery. 60 to 90 days after that, the sales will open up to everyone who is not a pre-order customer.

Mitsubishi built millions of auto's on that assembly line. Rivian has stated that they will start off slow to insure quality over quantity and speed things up as they get everyone trained.

They need to build a midsize truck and get it into production so they can ahve the bugs worked out when i get the Ranger paid off. 

16 hours ago, balthazar said:

I said 'speedy'; I didn't say 'good'.

JUST saw an article stating Model Y owners are finding composite lumber and zip ties under the front cargo area insert. Tesla- 12 years and still learning how to slip-slap cars together.

I can do all kinds of things with lumber, for the woodworkers here this might be a feature rather than a fault...

(sarcasm)

On 9/11/2020 at 7:24 PM, ocnblu said:

No need

Delorean converted into a back to the future time machine so you can get that 52 Chevy with the inline 235 and single barrel carb....brand new!

On 9/11/2020 at 2:24 PM, USA-1 said:

Yeah, the guys are trying to figure out where the extra bolts go that they have

Love, love love my new ranger, but found a few random bolts in it...I think I found them!

[A Horse With No Name]

21 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ high speed assembly line for a brand new $70K trucklette? Ocnblu is correct, sales are going to be a slim fraction of its competition. Only EV line moving at any speed of note is the Model 3.

And the model 3 is still better built than the crappy Mitsubishi products, the crappy Nissan products, the dated Toyota products, the bland Honda products (except for the Civic Type R which is lustworthy...)...the GM products with the crappy unreliable 3.6 V6, the marginal Ecosport which is uninspiring, damn near every vehicle built in that maintenance and reliability hellhole which is modern European cars. Let's keep things in perspective. 

On 9/11/2020 at 2:05 PM, David said:

@ccap41 According Rivian, Jan 2021 is when existing pre-order customers will get access to customize their R1T for building and delivery. 60 to 90 days after that, the sales will open up to everyone who is not a pre-order customer.

Mitsubishi built millions of auto's on that assembly line. Rivian has stated that they will start off slow to insure quality over quantity and speed things up as they get everyone trained.

Good, love trucks, looking forward to seeing these on the road!

 

On 9/10/2020 at 12:38 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Interesting article. It's not that this technology needed to be invented, the concept has been around since the 60's. It's just that no one had been able to make a business case for it (i.e. how much more efficient or powerful or light would introducing more phases make it cost effective?).  I can see multi-phase motors being a thing on planes, but I don't see a need to go to 12 or 18 in cars. Tesla has already shown that more power isn't an issue, so it would either be to be more efficient or lighter. 

That said, there are only incremental improvements to be made. Tesla might be able to get 5% more range by making a physically smaller motor more powerful and therefore weigh less. Having the motor virtually "shift" through 18 phases just to get up to 60 mph and back to zero probably isn't practical from a complexity standpoint. If I were to guess, 6 phases would be the most.

Three phase electric motors have been around forever.  The Volt has one, I believe (but cannot find proof for sure) that the Bolt has one. Telsas are all 3 phase (but the dual motor ones are different sizes, so there are effectively 6-phases in the car and the car can switch front to rear and back as needed).  So this technology is the EV equivalent of adding more gears to the transmission. 

In this video, you can hear the first 2 phases of a 3 phase motor accelerating. The third phase you'll never hear the switch because you're doing about 100mph at the time.

 

This is a later EuroSprinter with multi-phase motors.  They sound like a saxophone playing up the scale.

 

Three pahse motors run forever....I ahve a 1944 Whitney 177 Table saw that ahs had several million board feet of lumber run through it, came out of a west virginia lumber dimensioning plant. Original motor runs like new. 76 years in. 

Lots of buildings I take care of have 3 phase motors from the 40's, 50's, and 60's that ahve been running continuously for decades. 

How many 1960 automobiles are elft on the road in daily use?

[ocnblu]

5 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Delorean converted into a back to the future time machine so you can get that 52 Chevy with the inline 235 and single barrel carb....brand new!

❤️

[surreal1272]

On 9/12/2020 at 5:50 PM, balthazar said:

I said 'speedy'; I didn't say 'good'.

JUST saw an article stating Model Y owners are finding composite lumber and zip ties under the front cargo area insert. Tesla- 12 years and still learning how to slip-slap cars together.

Well then it seems like to me that Rivian is more concerned with putting out a quality product and not a sub-quality product by having “speedy” production. Quality over quantity. I’m not really sure how you make this out to be a negative somehow. 

[A Horse With No Name]

15 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Well then it seems like to me that Rivian is more concerned with putting out a quality product and not a sub-quality product by having “speedy” production. Quality over quantity. I’m not really sure how you make this out to be a negative somehow. 

I really hpe rivian makes it. I really do!

 

[riviera74]

On 9/13/2020 at 10:30 AM, A Horse With No Name said:

And the model 3 is still better built than the crappy Mitsubishi products, the crappy Nissan products, the dated Toyota products, the bland Honda products (except for the Civic Type R which is lustworthy...)...the GM products with the crappy unreliable 3.6 V6, the marginal Ecosport which is uninspiring, damn near every vehicle built in that maintenance and reliability hellhole which is modern European cars. Let's keep things in perspective. 

Good, love trucks, looking forward to seeing these on the road!

OK. Why did GM put in the 3.6 V6 again? Also, is that engine less reliable than the turbo 4cyl GM keeps putting in almost every FWD CUV these days?

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

OK. Why did GM put in the 3.6 V6 again? Also, is that engine less reliable than the turbo 4cyl GM keeps putting in almost every FWD CUV these days?

I can't figure out how a company that can build the small block chevrolet and the excellent 3800 V6 can build these motors. I just can't. 

But thena gain, had three otherwise very intelligent co workers spend 2 hours trying to figure out how to get a heat only thermostat to try to run A/C, so maybe I can. 

[Robert Hall]

20 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I can't figure out how a company that can build the small block chevrolet and the excellent 3800 V6 can build these motors. I just can't. 

 

Those were simple engines from a simpler time...today's engines are more complex w / lots of electronics..a lot more failure points.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Robert Hall

[oldshurst442]

2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Those were simple engines from a simpler time...today's engines are more complex w / lots of electronics..a lot more failure points.

false.

The 3.8 liter from Buick...the one used prior to the Buick Grand National, the used used IN the Buick Grand National and all other  subsequent variants are all part of the MODERN engine. All kinds of computer control metrics and sensors in the engine from the 1970s all the way to its end of life.  

Crossfire L83 V8, L98, LT5, LT1, LT4, LS1 and so forth...all had computer controlled metrics. 

I do not know how reliable the Crossfire was, but I do think the L98 was reliable.

Some people dreaded the LT1's optispark distributor system, but I do believe its because it was misunderstood and not because it was problematic.  The LT1 itself was said to be bulletproof.

The LS engines are bulletproof as the saying goes.

Therefore...I dont think your assumption here is correct about simpler times...

And If Im to understand this whole notion correctly...

Arent electric motors even simpler in design than the internal combustion engine?

Please educate me...

 

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by oldshurst442

[Robert Hall]

15 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

false.

The 3.8 liter from Buick...the one used prior to the Buick Grand National, the used used IN the Buick Grand National and all other  subsequent variants are all part of the MODERN engine. All kinds of computer control metrics and sensors in the engine from the 1970s all the way to its end of life.  

Crossfire L83 V8, L98, LT5, LT1, LT4, LS1 and so forth...all had computer controlled metrics. 

I do not know how reliable the Crossfire was, but I do think the L98 was reliable.

Some people dreaded the LT1's optispark distributor system, but I do believe its because it was misunderstood and not because it was problematic.  The LT1 itself was said to be bulletproof.

The LS engines are bulletproof as the saying goes.

Therefore...I dont think your assumption here is correct about simpler times...

 

Those were simple compared to what they are building today with the VVT, cylinder shut off, OHC V6s, etc.    And from a different GM than what it is today.   Anyway, I haven't heard about major issues w/ the 3.6..they seem to be putting it in a lot of vehicles, FWD and RWD..

Edited September 14, 2020 by Robert Hall

[oldshurst442]

Well...GM of today versus GM of the 1970s and 1980s and well into the 1990s was a GM that we would all like to forget about.

GM today is more on the ball with reliability and quality than those years.  Not arguing with you, just trying to set a logical focal point on where we should be bitchin' about. 

Ive heard the timing chain on that V6 was problematic. On the early versions. I heard that the 1st generation Lambdas has issues with their 3.6s with those folk that didnt do their regularly scheduled maintenance.  

I havent heard anything about the later 3.6s though. 

And Ill agree to your point about VV & cylinder shut off being more complicated than anything the L83s and LS1s and 3.8s had, but they did have many sensors and solenoids to go wrong nonetheless.   Regardless though,  none of those things were problematic. On any engine GM built from the 1970s-2020s.  At least none that Im aware of.   (optispark maybe?) 

Gaskets wearing off and causing lots of headaches to GM owners WAS a problem.  QUAD 4, Northstar, 3.4 DOHC, 3.4 OHV all had these problems.   

 

 

 

[G. David Felt]

4 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I can't figure out how a company that can build the small block chevrolet and the excellent 3800 V6 can build these motors. I just can't. 

But thena gain, had three otherwise very intelligent co workers spend 2 hours trying to figure out how to get a heat only thermostat to try to run A/C, so maybe I can. 

Call it the STUPID THINKING THAT DOHC are better engines, higher HP, weak ass torque and far more electronics that screw up an engine that should just stay pushrod solid basics.

[Robert Hall]

Anyway, it's all a moot point now that GM is moving to EVs.   It will be interesting to see what GM's product mix and market share will be like in 2030.

[G. David Felt]

Hummer by GMC Reveal set for Oct 20th. Reservation will be accepted starting that day also. We see the NEW Infotainment screen and dedicated CRAB MODE option. clearly APPLE and ANDROID play are supported.

I believe this will be bigger seller for GM than the Cadillac will be.

Excited to see the Truck, I also hope they show off the SUV.

Tesla is going to be Late LATE LATE to the truck party as usual.

[G. David Felt]

Last Friday, Kenworth announced the start of their new EV truck line with two box trucks for inner city delivery with a Class 6 and Class 7 truck. K270E and K370E models plenty more pictures for those interested in the power train or battery pack on the company press release. These trucks are in production with the first ones set to be delivered by December.

The trucks come in the following options list:

• 24 or 30 foot lengths.
• 100 or 200 mile battery packs
• 355 or 469 HP electric motors
• Enough Torque to start on a 20% grade
• Enough power to maintain 40 mph on a 6% grade fully loaded
• Regenerative braking
• DC fast charging

https://www.kenworth.com/news/news-releases/2020/september/electric-trucks-available/

[A Horse With No Name]

14 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Anyway, it's all a moot point now that GM is moving to EVs.   It will be interesting to see what GM's product mix and market share will be like in 2030.

If kia and Hyundai have not buried them entirely then in everything other than trucks. 

13 hours ago, David said:

Last Friday, Kenworth announced the start of their new EV truck line with two box trucks for inner city delivery with a Class 6 and Class 7 truck. K270E and K370E models plenty more pictures for those interested in the power train or battery pack on the company press release. These trucks are in production with the first ones set to be delivered by December.

The trucks come in the following options list:

• 24 or 30 foot lengths.
• 100 or 200 mile battery packs
• 355 or 469 HP electric motors
• Enough Torque to start on a 20% grade
• Enough power to maintain 40 mph on a 6% grade fully loaded
• Regenerative braking
• DC fast charging

https://www.kenworth.com/news/news-releases/2020/september/electric-trucks-available/

Hybrids are also gaining widespread acceptance, the public mindset is changing. Once fleet users see how much they can save in fuel, the writing is on the wall for ICE. 

13 hours ago, David said:

Hummer by GMC Reveal set for Oct 20th. Reservation will be accepted starting that day also. We see the NEW Infotainment screen and dedicated CRAB MODE option. clearly APPLE and ANDROID play are supported.

I believe this will be bigger seller for GM than the Cadillac will be.

Excited to see the Truck, I also hope they show off the SUV.

Tesla is going to be Late LATE LATE to the truck party as usual.

If they can build something like an H3 SUT, I am so going to paythem a visit. 

14 hours ago, David said:

Call it the STUPID THINKING THAT DOHC are better engines, higher HP, weak ass torque and far more electronics that screw up an engine that should just stay pushrod solid basics.

Like I said, was not impressed with it in the Colorado. 

18 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Those were simple engines from a simpler time...today's engines are more complex w / lots of electronics..a lot more failure points.

Needlessly complex, EV can't get hre fast enough. 

[ccap41]

On 9/13/2020 at 9:30 AM, A Horse With No Name said:

Three pahse motors run forever....I ahve a 1944 Whitney 177 Table saw that ahs had several million board feet of lumber run through it, came out of a west virginia lumber dimensioning plant. Original motor runs like new. 76 years in. 

Lots of buildings I take care of have 3 phase motors from the 40's, 50's, and 60's that ahve been running continuously for decades. 

How many 1960 automobiles are elft on the road in daily use?

We actually just replaced our air conditioner and it was from the 50's...3 phase. 

[A Horse With No Name]

The inner truck lover in me is grooving to this...love it!