Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[ocnblu]

54 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Your

 

[G. David Felt]

Some cool stuff out on the EV front.

Whole new industry has started up as they have found they can Shred Li-Ion cells and recover the bulk of the materials to make new batteries.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/recovering-usable-battery-grade-materials-from-shredded-li-ion-cells-free-webcast/

Seems Oslo is moving ahead of the world to a clean transport mode for the taxis as they have gone to putting in Wireless charging pads so Taxi's never have to leave their lane while waiting for the next fare and get recharged all at the same time. This allows for a high speed wireless charge keeping the batteries at their optimal charged point. Oslo has choosen to go with Jaguar i-Pace as the taxi of choice for use in the city of Oslo.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/jaguar-i-pace-electric-taxis-charging-wirelessly-in-oslo/

Interesting details on a company that is improving how Auto OEMs can reduce start up costs on making battery packs.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/improving-ev-battery-manufacturing-production-costs/

[balthazar]

Those are some expensive taxis; i-Paces start at $70 grand, then you have to retro fit the charging hardware. Oh well- just up everyone's taxi fares AND property taxes; probably no one will notice it costs $50 to take a 4-block taxi ride.

Also not sure of the statement that 'each charge provides 6-8 minutes of energy' - doesn't the pad keep charging as long as the vehicle is over it? 6-8 mins is not much of anything.

Edited July 9, 2020 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

6 hours ago, balthazar said:

Those are some expensive taxis; i-Paces start at $70 grand, then you have to retro fit the charging hardware. Oh well- just up everyone's taxi fares AND property taxes; probably no one will notice it costs $50 to take a 4-block taxi ride.

Also not sure of the statement that 'each charge provides 6-8 minutes of energy' - doesn't the pad keep charging as long as the vehicle is over it? 6-8 mins is not much of anything.

Agree, they are some expensive taxis. Course Oslo lets ya write off 50% cost 1st years and then other 50% cost second year.

I also wondered about the charge times as the company making the wireless charge pads say they continuously charge as you sit over it.

Still cool tech use.

[balthazar]

Some very rare data on the costs associated with retro-fitting an EV powertrain into an older vehicle. Still wildly expensive if you want something engineered as a package. 

[G. David Felt]

17 hours ago, balthazar said:

Some very rare data on the costs associated with retro-fitting an EV powertrain into an older vehicle. Still wildly expensive if you want something engineered as a package. 

That is truly crazy, but not out of line if it is a full package of motors, controllers, wires, battery pack, etc to fit into an established auto.

Pricing out the parts not including the battery pack for my suburban has me at just under $20k for everything. Size of the battery pack will be the biggest cost.

[G. David Felt]

VW seems to have a got hatch EV coming out in Europe. Hope it comes here, very good looking.

https://electrek.co/2020/07/08/vw-seat-2021-cupra-el-born-stunning-electric-hot-hatchback/

Rivian has secured a $2.5 Billion round of funding to insure long term operations. To Quote:

Today, the startup announced a new $2.5 billion round of funding – its first in 2020:

“Rivian has closed an investment round of $2.5 billion. The financing was led by funds and accounts advised by T. Rowe Price Associates, Inc.”

T. Rowe Price used to be one of Tesla’s biggest investors before it sold most of its shares last year.

Joe Fath, portfolio manager of T. Rowe Price Growth Stock Fund, commented on the investment round:

“We are excited to continue this journey with Rivian’s innovative and talented team as they now prepare to deliver their groundbreaking products that help shift to a carbon-neutral planet,”

Rivian disclosed the other investors in the round:

• Soros Fund Management LLC,
• Coatue
• Fidelity Management and Research Company
• Baron Capital Group
• Amazon
• BlackRock

Baron Capital Group, Fidelity, and Blackrock are also all current major investors in Tesla.

https://electrek.co/2020/07/10/rivian-secures-billion-funding-tesla-investors/#more-140204

Seems a Tesla Model Y has arrived in Sweden a year ahead of the launch and is owned by Volvo. Reverse Engineering anyone?  

https://electrek.co/2020/07/10/tesla-model-y-lands-europe-thanks-volvo-reverse-engineer/#more-140188

[balthazar]

52 minutes ago, dfelt said:

VW seems to have a got hatch EV coming out in Europe. Hope it comes here, very good looking.

Econo-car interior. I’ll guess it starts at $60K, that give it space price-wise between it and it’s sibling; the e-tron.

Edited July 10, 2020 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Econo-car interior. I’ll guess it starts at $60K, that gove it space price-wise between it and it’s sibling; the e-tron.

Sounds like the Cupra el-Born will start at around 45k euros. 

https://ev-database.org/car/1178/CUPRA-el-born

[balthazar]

OK- so $50K to start, or about 12 grand more than a Bolt. That should work out well.

[G. David Felt]

13 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Econo-car interior. I’ll guess it starts at $60K, that give it space price-wise between it and it’s sibling; the e-tron.

Still better looking than a Tesla style wise!

201 RWD HP 229lb ft of torque Not bad for a subcompact. Now that I see it is a subcompact, will never come here to the US.

[Robert Hall]

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

OK- so $50K to start, or about 12 grand more than a Bolt. That should work out well.

The European version of the Bolt---the Opel Ampera-e---starts at about 42k euros, so same ballpark.

https://www.opel.de/fahrzeuge/ampera-e/uebersicht.html

Edited July 10, 2020 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

OK- so $50K to start, or about 12 grand more than a Bolt. That should work out well.

Agree that based on current exchange $50,872 is pricey for this car, but then Europe is used to paying way more than we are for an auto.

[balthazar]

My comments (price, sales potential) were solely couched in the realm of a U.S. version. No idea how well/poorly the Opel sells in Europe.

[Robert Hall]

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

My comments (price, sales potential) were solely couched in the realm of a U.S. version. No idea how well/poorly the Opel sells in Europe.

There is no US version on sale now, so it's a moot point.  There is an E-Golf in the low 30s, but I think it's range is poor compared to the Bolt and Leaf.

[balthazar]

There also no VW elbow on sale right now, but here we are talking about it. ?

With VW vowing to go all EV ASAP, seems reasonable that this would at least be a consideration for the US.

[G. David Felt]

Love this edition of Jay Leno's Garage with the Subscription EV van he gets to drive. Talk about roomy for a party!

 

[G. David Felt]

@Robert Hall @oldshurst442 Good Read on the Hummer by GMC.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1128832_2022-gmc-hummer-ev-sut-suv-price-specs-review-photos-info

[G. David Felt]

Mercedes-Benz takes financial stake and creates partnership to insure battery supply for EV product line in Chinese company that is also building production facility in Germany.

Seems MB is not able to produce and bring online enough production in time to support their products, so buying into a Chinese company to ensure supply.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/mercedes-announces-partnership-with-battery-cell-manufacturer-farasis/

[G. David Felt]

For new Model S and X purchases, Tesla has increased the charge rate to be equal to the model 3 and Y at 250kWh charge rate. Supposedly when they show off the all new designed S, they are supposed to have a new battery and charge rate to be competitive with upcoming Rivian, Ford and GM which is going to have 350 kWh charge rates bringing fast charging to the same time as ICE fueling.

The question asked in this story is why and what has changed in the existing products to bring up this increase finally?

https://electrek.co/2020/07/12/tesla-updates-model-s-x-supercharging-rate-250-kw/

New ordered Tesla S and X get these accessories included with the auto. Yet for everyone else, pay up is what Tesla Says for the new Wireless charging pad $125 and the new cargo net $50. OUCH when both are so much cheaper on Amazon via 3rd party suppliers.

https://electrek.co/2020/07/11/tesla-pricey-new-accessories/

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, David said:

Yet for everyone else, pay up is what Tesla Says for the new Wireless charging pad $125 and the new cargo net $50. OUCH when both are so much cheaper on Amazon via 3rd party suppliers.

I have an issue with you or anybody else saying "OUCH" and that its so much cheaper through 3rd party suppliers...

That is not any different from ANY other business in ANY other domain.

Apple hardware products are certainly more expensive than 3rd party compatible products...

Canon/Minolta/Sony/Nikon photo camera accessories were and still are  more expensive than 3rd party compatible products...

Cuisinart/Kitchenaid coffee filters and other name brand accessories for their appliances are certainly more expensive than the generic compatible 3rd party products...

Nutella branded spread spoon is more expensive than a Dollar Tree version

Oakley and Ray Ban branded cases are more expensive than a Kirkland from Costco brand sunglass case...

You get the picture...

I mean... OK...you got a beef with Tesla...which is cool, but lets be a tad less biased when it comes to these kinds of things...

Tesla, afterall, is banking on the fact that they got great brand recognition and want to cash in on it.

Porsche, Ferrari...and even Hummer back in the day did  and does exactly that.   I say...no big deal.  

Edited July 13, 2020 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

That $150 is especially interesting when we commonly talk about converting perfectly functional IC vehicles to EV and spending $25-$80 grand doing it.

[G. David Felt]

17 minutes ago, balthazar said:

That $150 is especially interesting when we commonly talk about converting perfectly functional IC vehicles to EV and spending $25-$80 grand doing it.

To me a big difference is in the cost of accessories from the name brand when you buy their auto to begin with. @oldshurst442 makes a valid point about every business has a right to capitalize on their brand name to make extra profit.

My OUCH is that they are late to this party and they have superior 3rd party products out there doing a better job as a lower price. But to each their own.

In regards to project auto's, we each have our own taste on how we want to restore an auto for driving enjoyment. You are doing it as an ICE project, for me, I am excited to do it as an EV project.

Very different compared to accessory sales for current on sale auto's.

[balthazar]

It's not about preferences.

I have preferences I want to do on my projects, but there's an extremely tangible reason they're not happening. An angle chop, a supercharged 550 CI motor, hydraulic suspension. The reason- cost. It's incredible to me that we're supposedly talking rationally about different options and openly ignoring the associated cost in many instances. Budget is always a consideration.

No one says 'I need a new car- I was looking at a toyota corolla, that would suit my needs, but I might get a Bentley Bentayga instead'.

[balthazar]

What above did you find funny?

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, David said:

is that they are late to this party

What party? 

And the other question is:

Your point?

Wireless phone chargers are a thing you want to argue against?  For Tesla actually making their own and cashing in? Because obviously its too late and time has past them by  for them to actually make their own phone charger...  Its not as if they never had the know-how to do one....its not as if they havent built a battery charging infrastructure all over the world for their cars...for you to actually question how good their wireless phone charging accessory is...

Like honestly David...  This is not an "OUCH" moment.   And this is not "to each their own" moment either... 

This is just a flagrant hatred for nothing moment...  And honestly...it seems like Electrek is getting paid advert dollars for them to peddle Amazon's shytty products...   Made in China no less, shytty products...

They casually slip that in there, in hoping nobody notices the blatant shilling...

Quote

There are several third-party options out there for less than a third of that price, like this popular one for $40 on Amazon:

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

No one says 'I need a new car- I was looking at a toyota corolla, that would suit my needs, but I might get a Bentley Bentayga instead'.

This cracked me up. Thanks for the laugh.

10 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

What party? 

And the other question is:

Your point?

Wireless phone chargers are a thing you want to argue against?  For Tesla actually making their own and cashing in? Because obviously its too late and time has past them by  for them to actually make their own phone charger...  Its not as if they never had the know-how to do one....its not as if they havent built a battery charging infrastructure all over the world for their cars...for you to actually question how good their wireless phone charging accessory is...

Like honestly David...  This is not an "OUCH" moment.   And this is not "to each their own" moment either... 

This is just a flagrant hatred for nothing moment...  And honestly...it seems like Electrek is getting paid advert dollars for them to peddle Amazon's shytty products...   Made in China no less, shytty products...

They casually slip that in there, in hoping nobody notices the blatant shilling...

Nope, no hatred at all just crazy what Tesla is charging for that others make equal at a less price. Choices, that is all.

[Robert Hall]

25 minutes ago, David said:

 

Nope, no hatred at all just crazy what Tesla is charging for that others make equal at a less price. Choices, that is all.

That's just marketing... it's on the consumer to determine if they want to pay that price.   I understand, though..third party products are often shit.   I stick with authentic Apple products (esp. charging cables and power cords)  though I know they cost more than some 3rd party shit product.

As an aside,  one third party product I've bought lately that I've been satisfied with are Anker wireless earbuds..better than the hard plastic ones that came w/ my latest iPhone.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

15 States and the District of Columbia have signed an agreement to have all medium and heavy duty trucks to be electric by 2050. All new Medium and heavy duty trucks for Sale have to be Electric only starting in 2045.

California, Connecticut, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington and District of Columbia

Should be interesting to see how this works out.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1128869_15-states-want-all-heavy-duty-trucks-electric-by-2050

Nissan Ariya is going into production for release in 2021 as a 2022 model. AWD, 300 miles of battery range in a 4 door CUV for a starting price of $40,000. Plenty of additional details and pictures at the link below. Plus we have this You Tube video about it.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1128872_nissan-ariya-revealed-300-mile-electric-crossover

 

[G. David Felt]

VW will for Europe put on Sale the ID3 EV car July 20th. They have been building and stock piling them while software testing was done and tweaks to deliver on what they have promised for the base FWD EV for $33,000. 

30,000 ID 3's will go out to early pre-orders and on July 20th, people can configure, put money down and have an official order with delivery date for their EV car.

https://electrek.co/2020/07/13/volkswagen-vw-id-3-electric-car-july-20/

[G. David Felt]

Fiskar is to go public with a valuation of $2.9 Billion. $500 million will be used to bring their new CUV EV to market in 2022.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/07/13/fisker-automaker-going-public/

Cadillac released a 3 explanations of their newest auto, the Lyriq EV to help explain the name.
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/07/13/cadillac-lyriq-ev-name-explanation/

[ocnblu]

Jaguar XJ electric sedan debut pushed to late 2021

"JLR group focusing on most profitable models during turnaround plan" ~

(In other words, they know they have no hope making a profit on this boondoggle, and they desperately need to turn a profit... so the EV "flagship" is delayed LOL

[G. David Felt]

24 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Jaguar XJ electric sedan debut pushed to late 2021

"JLR group focusing on most profitable models during turnaround plan" ~

(In other words, they know they have no hope making a profit on this boondoggle, and they desperately need to turn a profit... so the EV "flagship" is delayed LOL

For company that is bleeding money, this is to be expected and understood as most of the tooling for the polluting ICE models are paid for, so it makes sense for the business to focus on selling ICE for now. But this is NOT a boondoggle as you call it. They are doing Business 101 common sense to survive during a pandemic that is going to hurt the world for years.

Yet you would rather Huff Coal and live in the stone age of ignorance. Enjoy  your out of date future.

[ccap41]

Always ironic that David's fleet is the least efficient... He's huffing more coal than anybody here! 

[Robert Hall]

17 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Always ironic that David's fleet is the least efficient... He's huffing more coal than anybody here! 

Not sure about the coal---he doesn't have diesels, and the PNW gets it's power via hydroelectric, not filthy coal.

I was curious about how much coal-powered power production is left in the US, seems like only 3 still active in my state (2 in the county I lived in as a kid).  My power now comes from nuclear plants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coal-fired_power_stations_in_the_United_States

Edited July 16, 2020 by Robert Hall

[ccap41]

Fossil fuels* 

[Robert Hall]

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Fossil fuels* 

Yeah, there is that..but we here are all 'guilty' of that.  That's the reality of transportation now..still a while before EVs become a realistic option for many.

[ccap41]

*vehicle fleet that is the least fuel efficient*

[G. David Felt]

52 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Always ironic that David's fleet is the least efficient... He's huffing more coal than anybody here! 

Washington State has one Nuclear plant that will be decommissioned in 2025. Everything here is Hydro, Solar or Wind. As such, while I have less efficient SUV's using regular gas for now, once full size EV SUV's and trucks are out, I will move over and leave the dirty ICE world behind.

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

*vehicle fleet that is the least fuel efficient*

Why should I waste my hard earned money on NON-Exciting butt ugly trucks like Chevrolet or MEH SUV's from everyone that requires all the same petro / lubrication maintenance when my auto's are paid for. Might as well save my money till I can buy a Hummer by GMC EV Truck/SUV or from Ford or Rivian. I am happy to have little gas use, since the pandemic has me working from home full time now. Like @Robert Hall has stated about how little he drives during the week. I have gone from about $600 to $800 a month in gas expenditures to less than $100 as the Wife and I enjoy our garden, working in the yard and other than once a week to go out for supplies, we have decided to stay home in the safety of our house and yard.

I see no reason to spend money on ICE Auto's now that do nothing to inspire me when the future of exciting EV's are coming with much lower Maintenance.

[Robert Hall]

18 minutes ago, David said:

 Like @Robert Hall has stated about how little he drives during the week 

I've spent $45 on gas total over the last 4 months...;)   In the before pandemic time, I was spending maybe $70/month on gas.  When I lived in AZ, I was spending $50-60 a week on gas.  Having no commute makes a big difference.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

Crossrally circuit has now added a EV version to the competition. As such, Ford is considering if they should build a Rally package for the Mach e. What are your thoughts on this concept?

This is soo funny, not once, not twice, but three times the Tesla X CRUSHES the Ferrari.

 

This has me just cracking up that a design would not be tested to insure it could handle going through puddles of water. WTF Tesla?

 

[ccap41]

I think they should do it, even if it's just to find flaws in the vehicle when being run as hard as possible. 

That's not an F40(F430 Spider) and it's probably about 15 years old compared to the Model X. FWIW, the F430 was made from 2005-2009. 

Regardless, I bet the X wins in a drag race against most Ferraris. 

[G. David Felt]

Nissan while coming out with CHAdeMO Version 3.0 that runs at the 350kW charging level, has dropped their standard except for China and Japan which will continue to use it. The rest of the world will get CCS standard charging ports when the new Ariya EV comes out per Inside EV write up here: https://insideevs.com/news/433929/nissan-switches-to-ccs-in-us-europe/

Top is the Nissan proprietary plug versus the CCS plug bottom.

  

[riviera74]

3 hours ago, David said:

Washington State has one Nuclear plant that will be decommissioned in 2025. Everything here is Hydro, Solar or Wind. As such, while I have less efficient SUV's using regular gas for now, once full size EV SUV's and trucks are out, I will move over and leave the dirty ICE world behind.

Too bad they will not allow that nuclear power plant to simply reprocess the nuclear waste.  You could then have the best of both worlds without the need for fossil fuels for baseline electric power.

[G. David Felt]

BMW is ramping up production of Electric drive units that no longer require rare earth materials along with ramping up battery production. Win Win for leaving behind rare earth elements and increasing production of EV. BMW also says that Plug-in and ICE will still be critical parts of their portfolio till at least 2030.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/bmw-expands-e-drive-production-capacity/

GM has also launched another new model in their Buick family for their largest auto market under the Buick banner. The Buick Velite 6 PHEV is a dual electric motor AWD auto with a 1.5 L generator allowing it to go 60 KM on pure electric and then up to 780 KM on generator. This equates to 37 miles pure electric and 485 miles on generator.

https://media.gm.com/media/cn/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/cn/en/2020/Jul/0703_Buick.html

 

[G. David Felt]

NY has now committed $750 million dollars to install state wide 53,773 Level 2 chargers and 1,500 DC fast chargers throughout the state.

https://electrek.co/2020/07/17/new-york-state-750-million-ev-charging-infrastructure/

[balthazar]

I question, after 2020’s inevitable tax shortfall, where NYS is going to get 3/4 of a billion extra dollars from.

[G. David Felt]

12 hours ago, balthazar said:

I question, after 2020’s inevitable tax shortfall, where NYS is going to get 3/4 of a billion extra dollars from.

Higher Taxes on the Auto's that are polluting and increase gas tax.

[balthazar]

^ Nope.
If it's your personal choice to buy an expensive EV vehicle, you should pay the associated cost.
$750M / 36854 EV (2018 NYS number) = $20,350 per EV vehicle. What's a little higher payment over a few more years relative to saving the Earth?

The self-defeating problem in attempting to tie EV infrastructure costs into IC vehicles in order to "drive change" is that --IF it works-- that pool of money will steadily dwindle as IC vehicles theoretically become less common. Also, tying EV costs to IC vehicles "will disproportionately affect those most cash-strapped in the vehicle pool / those the farthest from affording an EV".

The long-term success would be to tie it to EV vehicles, because --IF it works-- that cost is borne by 1. those spending luxury-vehicle prices (Teslas, audis, jags, Bolingers, Rivians, Lordstowners, etc), and 2. that cost will come DOWN as the EV pool theoretically increases.

[G. David Felt]

Cool web site and good info on what GM is doing to work with the Environment rather than against it.

https://www.gmsustainability.com/

One can download the sustainability report here: https://www.gmsustainability.com/_pdf/resources-and-downloads/GM_2019_SR.pdf

Key bits on what the new EV roadmap which has expanded is as follows:

The Product Cadence of Our Evolving EV Portfolio GM is well on its way to an all-electric future, with a commitment to 20 new electric vehicles by 2023 and plans for additional models taking us beyond that. Our all-new modular platform removes significant physical constraints associated with conventional vehicles — no need to build around gas tanks, engines, radiator or exhaust pipes, for example. In the past, EV design placed great importance on differentiating the EV visually from its ICE counterparts. No more. The flexibility of this new platform frees us to proportion vehicles to meet unique brand personas and to design around vehicle and customer segment needs. Here are the EVs that each GM brand anticipates introducing.

CADILLAC

GM’s luxury brand plans to introduce four electric SUVs and one statement vehicle including: • Cadillac Lyriq SUV, which is designed to hit the heart of the crossover market and meet the needs of customers around the world. • A globally sized luxury three-row SUV that emphasizes interior space and cargo capability for the modern family. • An SUV EV with attainable luxury — similar to today’s Cadillac XT4 — and aimed at this key global growth segment. • A full-size, three-row luxury SUV that builds on the DNA of the brand’s highly successful Escalade. • The Cadillac Celestiq Statement Vehicle that is an ultra-lux EV with bespoke, hand-assembled craftmanship and project build rate of only 1.2 vehicles per day.

GMC

Teased during the 2020 Super Bowl telecast, GMC is bringing back the iconic Hummer brand through two models: • GMC Hummer EV truck that boasts performance of 1,000 horsepower, 11,500 lb-ft of torque and 0 to 60 mph acceleration in three seconds. • GMC Hummer EV SUV builds off the GMC Hummer EV truck but will be configured as an off-road-capable SUV.

CHEVROLET

Building on the success of the 2020 Chevrolet Bolt EV, which offers new front-end design and other exterior updates, the brand intends to launch: • A mid-sized SUV targeted to U.S. customers who are looking for an electric option in this segment. • Chevrolet BET Truck, which will be the brand's first electric full-size pickup, offering 400+ miles of range on a single charge. • Chevrolet Bolt EUV that features a distinctive SUV design inspired by the Chevy Blazer and offers Super Cruise driver assistance — the first vehicle outside of Cadillac to do so.

BUICK

Two new all-electric entries for the Buick portfolio will carry the new face of the brand: • A Buick SUV will offer more conventional crossover proportion that maximizes interior space and cargo. • A Buick CUV will feature more expressive proportion with a greater emphasis on form and athletic fashion.

In addition, the Cruise Origin autonomous vehicle will be the first production vehicle from our partnership with Honda. Read about the Origin on page 74.