Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[G. David Felt]

Seems Tesla is pissing off customers in China just like the rest of the world. Welcome to poor quality control as it appears she is complaining about her brakes having failed on her Tesla 3 almost killing her family.

insideevs.com posted about this as well and is trying to follow up on the story. Tesla Owner Protests At Shanghai Auto Show, Standing On A Tesla (insideevs.com)

[G. David Felt]

Lordstown Motors had entered the San Felipe 250 off road race. Sadly they had to pull out after Stage 1 due to having misjudged the energy consumption the desert terrain caused on the battery pack. The auto over all did great. Lordstown is planning to address and return to race and finish next year.

 

According to electrek web site, seems Mercedes-Benz will be using Tony Hawk, American Pro Skateboarder to introduce the next auto in the BEV lineup, the EQT electric minivan.

To Quote the Mercedes-Benz press release per the story below:

The near-production Concept EQT offers a clear glimpse of the electric version of the forthcoming T-Class. With the completely newly developed city van, Mercedes-Benz Vans is transferring the winning formula of the V-Class people carrier to a compact format and bringing a new level of quality to the small-van segment. The Concept EQT combines a spacious and variable interior with attractive design and Mercedes’ hallmark high standards of comfort, connectivity, value, and safety.

Mercedes-Benz teases new EQT electric minivan - Electrek

[balthazar]

4 hours ago, David said:

Sadly they had to pull out after Stage 1 due to having misjudged the energy consumption the desert terrain caused on the battery pack.

 

[surreal1272]

Saw this on another site and its analysis (if you will) is spot on. The Benz EQS went from beautiful concept to a gloried 2000 Dodge Intrepid on the outside. It was a bean counters wet dream, by the looks of it.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/mercedes-vision-eqs-ev-design/

 

Meanwhile Cadillac did the EXACT opposite and kept true to their concept with the Lyriq. The luxury and EV community and their respective buyers should take note of these events.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023-cadillac-lyriq-first-look-review/

22 hours ago, balthazar said:

 

Yes because I'm sure pulling out of a race early never happened to ICE vehicles when they first started racing like this. Last time I checked, professional drivers still run out of gas on the track so...

[Drew Dowdell]

That Lyriq could get Cadillac back in my good graces, I really like it.  

[surreal1272]

4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That Lyriq could get Cadillac back in my good graces, I really like it.  

It actually is pretty sharp and shows that Cadillac is capable of putting out something a little more "daring" in design. And even though I know they are purely frivolous, I really dig the led sequential patterns going on with it.

[ykX]

Lyriq looks like one of the much better looking EVs.  Interior looks great as well.  Will be interesting to see performance, when it comes out.  Considering it is a Cadillac, 60k seems like a reasonable pricing.

[G. David Felt]

Work has me swamped, but I am hoping unless @Drew Dowdell or @William Maley get something up as here is the official release from GM.

2023 Cadillac LYRIQ Debuts, Heralding an All-Electric Future (gm.com)

2023 LYRIQ highlights include:

• Available Super Cruise⁶, the industry’s first true hands-free driver-assistance technology for compatible roads
• A stunning 33-inch-diagonal advanced LED display with the ability to emit over 1 billion colors
• Cadillac’s next-generation Active Noise Cancellation system
• Slim-line LED headlamps with choreographed lighting sequence
• AKG Studio 19-speaker audio system with headrest speakers
• KeyPass digital vehicle access
• Dual level charge cord
• Standard 20-inch split six-spoke alloy wheels or optional 22-inch dynamic split-spoke Reverse Rim alloy wheels

Will Say that the specifications are very competitive.

LYRIQ Preliminary Specifications

EFFICIENCY

Cadillac Estimated Driving Range^:

More than 300 miles (482.8 km) on a full charge

^{^} Based on GM testing. EPA estimates not yet available. Actual range will vary based on several factors, including temperature, terrain, battery age, and vehicle loading, use and maintenance.

BATTERY SYSTEM

Type:	Rechargeable energy storage system comprising multiple linked modules
Battery chemistry:	Lithium-ion NCMA cathode, blended graphite anode
Modules:	12
Energy:	100 kWh

 

ELECTRIC DRIVE

System:	1 drive unit with 1 motor
Motor:	Permanent magnet, bar wound
Power:	340hp (255 kW)
Torque: (lb-ft / Nm):	325 lb-ft. (440 Nm)
Final drive ratio (:1):	11.63:1

 

CHARGING TIMES^                                                                 

120 V:	3.5 miles of range per hour of charge time
240 V (11.5 kW AC) 240V* (19.2 kW AC)	31 miles of range per hour of charge time 52 miles of range per hour of charge time
DC Fast Charge:	Up to 76 miles of range in 10 minutes of charge time Up to 195 miles of range in 30 minutes of charge time

^{^}Actual charge times will vary based on battery condition, output of charger, vehicle settings and outside temperature.
^*Requires professionally installed 19.2 kW AC / 100A dedicated charge station.

CHASSIS & SUSPENSION

Front Suspension:	5-link SLA with Passive-Plus Premium Dampers
Rear Suspension:	5-link with Passive-Plus Premium Dampers
Steering Type:	Continuously Variable Electric Power Steering (EPS)
Turning Circle (wall-wall) (ft. / m):	12.1m
Brake Type:	4 wheel disc with DuraLife Rotors
Brake Rotor Size: (in. / mm)	17” (321mm) front/18” (345 mm) Rear
Wheel Size:	Standard: 20” Split 6-spoke Alloy Optional: 22” Dynamic Split-spoke Reverse Rim Alloy
Tires:	Included with 20” wheels: 265/50R20 All Season, Self-sealing Included with 22” wheels: 275/40R22 All Season, Low profile^, Self-sealing

^{^} Lower-profile tires wear faster. Tire and wheel damage may occur on rough or damaged roads or from surfaces, curbs, debris or obstacles. This damage is not covered by the GM New Vehicle Limited Warranty. For more details, go to my.cadillac.com/learnabout/tires or see your dealer.

EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS                            

Wheelbase (in. / mm):	121.8 / 3094
Overall Length (in. / mm):	196.7 / 4996
Overall Width (in. / mm):	77.8 / 1977
Overall Height (in. / mm):	63.9 / 1623

 

INTERIOR DIMENSIONS                             

Headroom (in / mm):	Front 38.6 / 980 Rear 37.7 / 957
Legroom (in. / mm):	(front - max) 41.4 / 1052 (rear) 39.6 / 1006
Shoulder Room (in. / mm):	(front) 58.9 / 1497 (rear) 58.6 / 1488
Hip Room (in. / mm):	(front) 56.5 / 1436 (rear) 54.0 / 1372

 

WEIGHTS & CAPACITIES                            

Base Curb Weight (Min) (lb. / kg):	2545 kg/5610 lbs
Passenger Volume (cu. ft. / L):	105 / 2976
Cargo Volume (cu. ft. / L) ^:	28.0 / 793 (behind rear seat) 60.8 / 1723 (rear seat folded)

^{^} Cargo and load capacity limited by weight and distribution

The more I watch the video, the more I will say that Cadillac is coming back strong and that Tesla needs to be worried.

[Drew Dowdell]

I can't tell if it is AWD or not... but I'm guessing not with those specs of only having 1 motor. 

[oldshurst442]

Ummm.....   The Lyriq the way it looks is just OK in my books.  Nothing earth shattering.  Which, by it being a Cadillac, kinda fails to impress me.   But I guess for it being a model that Cadillac needs to produce many examples of and make money on them, for the masses, Im willing to turn a blind eye to its average looks.  

I hopes Cadillac has a REAL stunner  somewheres down the pipe line that wows.  Because THAT is what Cadillac is all about:

%1er  price tags

%1er "phoque you Im rich!"  exterior styling  

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Saw this on another site and its analysis (if you will) is spot on. The Benz EQS went from beautiful concept to a gloried 2000 Dodge Intrepid on the outside. It was a bean counters wet dream, by the looks of it.

Daimler never builds any of their concept cars. But yes; it's especially dumpy.

45 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Nothing earth shattering.

Serious question : what, in your opinion, of the last 20 years, has been 'earth shattering'?

- - - - - -
I'm impressed on 2 dimensions of the Lyriq: wheelbase is way up there at 122" (1 inch short of my B-59 and an inch longer than an Escalade), and the width at nearly 78". It has no overhangs tho, so the 197" OL is relatively short.

Edited April 21, 2021 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I can't tell if it is AWD or not... but I'm guessing not with those specs of only having 1 motor. 

Yes per earlier Media release, the LYRIQ will come in RWD or AWD.

LYRIQ Show Car Leads Cadillac Into Electric Future

[oldshurst442]

@balthazar 

Last 20 years?

Im gonna stay with Cadillac

the front end of the Ciel has not aged well IMO. But the rest is a Cadillac masterpiece.  Even as far to say that its a modern masterpiece.  Too bad Cadillac never produced these.   

 

 

CUV/SUV styling?  Well...nothing earthshattering could ever be achieved with CUVs/SUVs.  Nothing I said is controversial. Its JUST okay.  It may be world's better looking than any CUV/SUV from Mercedes, Rolls, Bentley. But that aint saying much when the Lyriq is bordering on snoozey.  It looks like it has a commanding height AND stance. But ultimately, Im not impressed.  The stance might have that commanding announcement that "you have arrived", the overall look to it almost apologizes that you have arrived.

 

The HUMMER, on the other hand...ALSO says you have arrived. It also says PHOQUE YOU when you have arrived.  THAT is what is missing with the Lyriq. The "PHOQUE YOU" part.   The Hummer is not elegant enough to pass off as a Cadillac.  DUH! Its a HUMVEE...      

Both the Ciel and El Miraj have that GREAT balance of announcing that you have arrived, the "PHOQUE YOU, Im rich AND the elegance of saying Phoque You...  

 

 

[G. David Felt]

Seems that Cadillac is evaluating a V series version for the BEV LYRIQ!

Cadillac Lyriq V-Series Under Evaluation, Says Executive (motor1.com)

[ccap41]

17 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I can't tell if it is AWD or not... but I'm guessing not with those specs of only having 1 motor. 

We knew GM would GM-it somewhere.  It's ridiculous to not offer AWD.

[G. David Felt]

31 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

We knew GM would GM-it somewhere.  It's ridiculous to not offer AWD.

It is offered in FWD and AWD per their press release.

[oldshurst442]

Quote

The 2023 Cadillac Lyriq hits the road early next year with a standard rear-wheel-drive setup and 340 horsepower (254 kilowatts). Shortly after that, the company promises a "Performance" model with a dual-motor setup and more horses. But there’s even more good news, avid EV enthusiast: A third Lyriq V-Series could join the lineup at a later date if we’re lucky.

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

Seems that the assessment is that there is no way the world will be ready to ban ICE auto sales by 2030 due to the lack of battery supply plants.

Report: Not enough battery factories to support EVs' global rise past ICE vehicles in 2030s (greencarreports.com)

Honda has released that they will start their BEV with using traditional Lithium batteries and will have solid state batteries in second generation models later this decade and that ICE auto's will go till 2040 when they believe they will have sufficient supply of batteries to support the global market.

This is based on Honda using GM's Ultium Battery system and powertrain. This tells us that GM will be hard pressed to stop building ICE auto's by 2035 which is their current goal unless they ramp up battery production faster.

Honda US EV plans: Solid-state batteries later this decade, all EVs by 2040 (greencarreports.com)

Even a better story on Honda plans as it breaks down what they see for a conversion to pure electric with a twist which is they will still also be building Hydrogen based auto's too.

Honda announces 100% 'electric' sales by 2040, but there's a twist - Electrek

[G. David Felt]

Interesting story on the new Bridgestone tires designed for BEV application. These low rolling resistant tires do a superior job on dry pavement. They have in past applications been less successful in wet or snow use, which makes me wonder if these type of tires will find themselves in use in the southern states only.

Bridgestone tires will help Lightyear One solar car leapfrog Tesla in efficiency (greencarreports.com)

[G. David Felt]

First Medium / Heavy duty truck charging stations have rolled out to support Class 4 to 8 size trucks with rapid charging.

Electric Island: First US charging station for electric semis is ready for megawatt fast-charging (greencarreports.com)

[G. David Felt]

Rivian has released their first batch of R1T and R1S accessories.

Tents, various sport rack mounts, camping system for the tunnel along with the gear shuttle that looks like a table and more to come.

Here are a bunch of accessories Rivian is bringing to its electric pickup truck and SUV - Electrek

Want Weird, this is it, want to debate how small a bed should be, you can debate it on this, Alibaba has just started to sell the Trucklette. This 4 seat micro truck can handle a 1,500lb payload capacity and has a top speed of 28 mph all for the base bargain price of $3,100 for your electric truck.

It even includes a bed cover.

 

Awesomely Weird Alibaba EV of the Week: A $3,100 electric pickup truck? (electrek.co)

[ccap41]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36175755/ev-charging-infrastructure-in-america-still-sucks/

Such a train wreck of an infrastructure, right now. 

[G. David Felt]

15 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36175755/ev-charging-infrastructure-in-america-still-sucks/

Such a train wreck of an infrastructure, right now. 

Yes east coast sucks when it comes to the crazy half ass approach of the states / counties / cities supporting or not supporting EV charging. Like the write up says, we will have this craziness as normal pains till chargers are normal everywhere. Not unlike the early 1900's where you also had to plan out your drive as finding a gas station was not always available and many ICE owners out away from the cities ended up needing a pull from the local farmer Horse.  

[ccap41]

3 minutes ago, David said:

Yes east coast sucks when it comes to the crazy half ass approach of the states / counties / cities supporting or not supporting EV charging. Like the write up says, we will have this craziness as normal pains till chargers are normal everywhere. Not unlike the early 1900's where you also had to plan out your drive as finding a gas station was not always available and many ICE owners out away from the cities ended up needing a pull from the local farmer Horse.  

Yeah, I think as more get into charging their vehicles it'll force higher quality chargers and more of them. People will(and are) get fed up with chargers not working or charging waaaay slower than their rating. 

[Drew Dowdell]

My only issue with the article is that he pretty much stuck with the Ford charging app to find chargers.  Sure, Ford claims to have the largest charging network (by location, not by number of chargers), but limiting yourself to just that network is foolish.... you wouldn't do that with gas stations, so why would you with charging stations.

That would be like me writing an article about driving across country but only filling up at Costcos and then complaining when there wasn't one on my route but there are 15 BPs, 7 Exxons, and a couple other local chains. 

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

My only issue with the article is that he pretty much stuck with the Ford charging app to find chargers.  Sure, Ford claims to have the largest charging network (by location, not by number of chargers), but limiting yourself to just that network is foolish.... you wouldn't do that with gas stations, so why would you with charging stations.

That would be like me writing an article about driving across country but only filling up at Costcos and then complaining when there wasn't one on my route but there are 15 BPs, 7 Exxons, and a couple other local chains. 

There also aren't 16,000 Costcos in the US, there are 558. 

[G. David Felt]

Chevrolet is paying to install the 240 V charging outlet in your garage if you lease or buy a 2022 BOLT EV or EUV.

[Drew Dowdell]

16 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

There also aren't 16,000 Costcos in the US, there are 558. 

I know, but you see the point I'm making.

The trouble with Ford's claim is exactly what you're pointing out, that the infrastructure isn't there or it's broken or locked behind a gate or inside a <Dealer Brand> service center.  However, if you limit yourself to just Ford's network when charging, you're going to be frustrated.  Jumping on ChargePoint, it shows way more than just the 2 fast chargers he found in NYC on the Ford app.  He could have used other networks, he just chose not to.

It would be like saying you'll only fill up with one brand of gas and then complaining when your one brand doesn't have a station nearby but Exxon does. What would any sane person do? They'd just go to the Exxon. 

[ccap41]

35 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I know, but you see the point I'm making.

The trouble with Ford's claim is exactly what you're pointing out, that the infrastructure isn't there or it's broken or locked behind a gate or inside a <Dealer Brand> service center.  However, if you limit yourself to just Ford's network when charging, you're going to be frustrated.  Jumping on ChargePoint, it shows way more than just the 2 fast chargers he found in NYC on the Ford app.  He could have used other networks, he just chose not to.

It would be like saying you'll only fill up with one brand of gas and then complaining when your one brand doesn't have a station nearby but Exxon does. What would any sane person do? They'd just go to the Exxon. 

Yes, I understand what you're saying.  How many chargers are there in total, outside of the "Ford" network? 

Edited April 27, 2021 by ccap41

[balthazar]

On 4/26/2021 at 2:26 PM, David said:

Seems that the assessment is that there is no way the world will be ready to ban ICE auto sales by 2030

d to the uh.

[G. David Felt]

These are clearly not for the US market, but I have to say that this drag race of EV version 1.0 and the new EV version 2.0 is too funny.

Watch The Tiniest Drag Race Ever: Microlino 2.0 Vs Microlino 1.0 (insideevs.com)

Tiny Drag race

 

[ykX]

GM Will Build a ‘Large’ Electric SUV for Acura in 2024

Last week, Honda declared it'll sell only emissions-free vehicles in the United States—powered by a combo of batteries and hydrogen—by the year 2040. Buried in the announcement's press release, however, Honda quietly mentioned plans for "two large-sized EV models using GM's Ultium batteries," one for Honda and one for Acura, both for the 2024 model year. And they won't be built just from GM-sourced batteries, but by actual GM-employee hands, as confirmed by an Acura spokesperson to The Drive.

"We are jointly developing two EV SUVs models using GM's Ultium batteries for the North American market as 2024 model year, one for the Honda brand and one for the Acura brand," said an Acura spokesperson in an email to The Drive. "As announced in April 2020, these will be produced by GM."

GM Will Build a ‘Large’ Electric SUV for Acura in 2024 | The Drive

[riviera74]

14 hours ago, ykX said:

GM Will Build a ‘Large’ Electric SUV for Acura in 2024

Last week, Honda declared it'll sell only emissions-free vehicles in the United States—powered by a combo of batteries and hydrogen—by the year 2040. Buried in the announcement's press release, however, Honda quietly mentioned plans for "two large-sized EV models using GM's Ultium batteries," one for Honda and one for Acura, both for the 2024 model year. And they won't be built just from GM-sourced batteries, but by actual GM-employee hands, as confirmed by an Acura spokesperson to The Drive.

"We are jointly developing two EV SUVs models using GM's Ultium batteries for the North American market as 2024 model year, one for the Honda brand and one for the Acura brand," said an Acura spokesperson in an email to The Drive. "As announced in April 2020, these will be produced by GM."

GM Will Build a ‘Large’ Electric SUV for Acura in 2024 | The Drive

If you told me that Honda would let GM build one of their cars (or trucks) 30 years ago, I would ask, WHY?  NOW Honda wants a GM-built BEV?!   Whoa, how times have changed.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

If you told me that Honda would let GM build one of their cars (or trucks) 30 years ago, I would ask, WHY?  NOW Honda wants a GM-built BEV?!   Whoa, how times have changed.

Here are the official press releases by gm and Honda.

General Motors and Honda to Jointly Develop Next-Generation Honda Electric Vehicles Powered by GM's Ultium Batteries | General Motors Company

General Motors and Honda to Jointly Develop Next-Generation Honda Electric Vehicles Powered by GM’s Ultium Batteries (hondanews.com)

This is what happens when you get caught behind the tech change by society. The same reason Toyota is behind and bad mouthing is they were leading, Hydrogen is not working out for consumers and so they have to pivot and run to try and catch up.

Hydrogen for Commercial Class 8 trucks / Semi's for range extenders makes sense here.

[balthazar]

Down With The Silence!! 

[riviera74]

4 hours ago, balthazar said:

Down With The Silence!! 

WHY do this?  What is wrong with a vehicle that is essentially silent?

[balthazar]

'Dangerous', they say.

I hope, in addition to both engine AND exhaust noise, Daimler doesn't forget to get some gear-changing sounds in there, too. ?

[Robert Hall]

8 hours ago, riviera74 said:

WHY do this?  What is wrong with a vehicle that is essentially silent?

pedestrians. 

[G. David Felt]

5 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

pedestrians. 

Survival of the fittest, if a pedestrian is too stupid to pay attention to the roads, caught up in their facetime with who ever and ignors crossing a road, why should the silent auto be penalized?

[ykX]

GM to invest $1 billion in Mexico for electric vehicle production

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/29/gm-to-invest-1-billion-in-mexico-for-electric-vehicle-production.html

 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ykX said:

GM to invest $1 billion in Mexico for electric vehicle production

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/29/gm-to-invest-1-billion-in-mexico-for-electric-vehicle-production.html

 

The Union VP Terry Dittos is an Idiot. Union wages here in the US are too high to support low entry level EV products just like ICE products and as such, you need to have a lower wage production to cover all areas. 

Just look at the Asian auto makers who build their entry level auto's in cheap labor markets and import them here for sale to cover that market.

At least GM is doing it with a North America country rather than some place over seas.

This is a POSTIVE for people to get low cost EVs.

[balthazar]

So...... ship all BE assembly out of the country then??
 

- - - - - 

>>"1 in 5 electric vehicle owners in California switched back to gas because charging their cars is a hassle, new research shows"<<

https://www.yahoo.com/news/1-5-electric-vehicle-owners-164149467.html

Oopsie-poopsie!

Edited April 30, 2021 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

22 minutes ago, balthazar said:

So...... ship all BE assembly out of the country then??
 

- - - - - 

>>"1 in 5 electric vehicle owners in California switched back to gas because charging their cars is a hassle, new research shows"<<

https://www.yahoo.com/news/1-5-electric-vehicle-owners-164149467.html

Oopsie-poopsie!

Lets also look at the the cherry picking of this story, they talk about how home charging is 36 miles of range over night only and barely even mention level 2 charging. They also talk about having to look for a fast charger and point to Tesla having a 480 V fast charging network but never state that Tesla is also 110 or 220 V electrical from home due to stupid limits on not having more power than 220V at your house.

This is a pathetic ICE attempt to put EVs in a bad light by cherry picking little things. .

I get it that there are those that Love the roar of a V8, I also like it, but also I love all things quiet and there is nothing wrong with EV's, YES it requires a change in attitude and approach to plugging in and charging at this point, no different than being in an auto in the early 1900's and having to look for a gas station and hope you have a can to hold the gas if your auto ran out of gas on the road to get some gas back to it.

We can make all types of excuses and I will say that many of the people in this very limited study are too lazy to change the way they do things based on the Yahoo story, sadly, no way to really confirm this as the story is cherry picking out of the 33 research papers written, no clear actual study was done.

Scott Hardman (0000-0002-0476-7909) - ORCID | Connecting Research and Researchers

As such, I again have to say this is an ICE writer with an agenda of making BEVs look bad anyway they can manipulate the data.

The original story is not the hatchet job Yahoo has posted.

Electric Car Owners Switching to Gas Because Charging Is a Hassle: Study (businessinsider.com)

So the 20% of California owners who switched back to ICE was due to the simple truth of not having a Level 2 charger at their apartment or place of work and so charging at 110 was just not functional for them at the time.

They never said anything about not liking the auto's, the focus is on the lack of charging infrastructure that even the Business Insider writer pointed out he only had a 110 at home and after 36miles of charge, drove in the morning to work to fully charge up the battery before returning to home.

I would say if he is a writer going to cover the EV industry, then he should have paid to have a Level 2 charger installed at home or his work should do this for him.

We all know that Apartment dwellers and cheap home owners who are not wanting to install at the early stage a proper charger are not the audience for ownership yet. Common sense, I could go on but this has gotten too long already as I think I made my point.

[ykX]

1 hour ago, David said:

Just look at the Asian auto makers who build their entry level auto's in cheap labor markets and import them here for sale to cover that market.

Honda assembles most Civics in the US in Indiana factory.  Toyota assembles Corolla in Mississippi.

[balthazar]

30 minutes ago, David said:

no different than being in an auto in the early 1900's and having to look for a gas station and hope you have a can to hold the gas if your auto ran out of gas on the road to get some gas back to it.

"Hoping you have a can"?? ?

So you're saying it was acceptable 100 years ago, so it should be acceptable today?
People don't want to do ANYTHING like they did 20 years ago, never mind 120 years ago!

- - - - -
But to repeat- automobiles were not used 100 years ago like you seem to think they were. There was no long-distance traveling, or looking for unknown gas stations. There was no significant range anxiety. Cars were primarily occasional-use / local vehicles (at the point you imply there were no plentiful gas stations). Fueling locations were more common for lesser demand.

In 1920 in the U.S., there were about 22,000 filling stations & curbside pumps, for about 7,000,000 vehicles.
That's 318 vehicles per location. 

In 2020, in the U.S., there were about 60,500 gas stations for about 375,000,000 vehicles.
That's 6188 vehicles per location.

Seems you need to drop your ill-informed claim that people were scrabbling around, panicked, looking for fuel 100 years ago. Wasn't the case.

- - - - - 
Today, you have a fledgling & compromised (not-uncommonly plagued by defects & restrictions) public charging system, or a slow home system, in a time people depend on their autos daily. It's not a secretive IC cabal pushing this, it's just the facts.

[oldshurst442]

18 minutes ago, balthazar said:

"Hoping you have a can"?? ?

So you're saying it was acceptable 100 years ago, so it should be acceptable today?
People don't want to do ANYTHING like they did 20 years ago, never mind 120 years ago!

- - - - -
But to repeat- automobiles were not used 100 years ago like you seem to think they were. There was no long-distance traveling, or looking for unknown gas stations. There was no significant range anxiety. Cars were primarily occasional-use / local vehicles (at the point you imply there were no plentiful gas stations). Fueling locations were more common for lesser demand.

In 1920 in the U.S., there were about 22,000 filling stations & curbside pumps, for about 7,000,000 vehicles.
That's 318 vehicles per location. 

In 2020, in the U.S., there were about 60,500 gas stations for about 375,000,000 vehicles.
That's 6188 vehicles per location.

Seems you need to drop your ill-informed claim that people were scrabbling around, panicked, looking for fuel 100 years ago. Wasn't the case.

- - - - - 
Today, you have a fledgling & compromised (not-uncommonly plagued by defects & restrictions) public charging system, or a slow home system, in a time people depend on their autos daily. It's not a secretive IC cabal pushing this, it's just the facts.

When an argument like THIS one presents itself and is EXPLAINED EXACTLY like that, there is NO way that I can not agree with it!!!

 

 

[Robert Hall]

There are many things.

[surreal1272]

34 minutes ago, balthazar said:

In 1920 in the U.S., there were about 22,000 filling stations & curbside pumps, for about 7,000,000 vehicles.
That's 318 vehicles per location. 

There were 15,000 in 1920, not 22,000. That skews your math a bit and it also doesn’t consider density of numbers (filling stations) as it relates to the population (and where people were living) at the time.

https://uh.edu/engines/epi975.htm

 

https://americanhistory.si.edu/america-on-the-move/fill-up

Hell, because of our dependence on foreign oil, we had this in the 70s so maybe you need to stop acting like gas has a trouble free existence in just its firsts 60 years in this country. Just saying.

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by surreal1272

[oldshurst442]

Id say, people started travelling long distances AFTER WW2 when the American highway system got on its way, the economy booming at the same time because of the spoils of winning the war yada yada yada.

At the same time, gas stations opened up along the highways and byways and in the suburbs where the GIs bought their new homes starting the boomer generation...   

The drive-in movie theatres and diners  where the automobile hung around also had gasoline stations by their side.

 So...where we want to complain about EV charging stations and the lack-thereof, it took 50 years for the gasoline infrastructure to come to be AFTER the genesis of the automobile. 

31 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Today, you have a fledgling & compromised (not-uncommonly plagued by defects & restrictions) public charging system, or a slow home system, in a time people depend on their autos daily. It's not a secretive IC cabal pushing this, it's just the facts.

Its really NOT about it (EV charging system) being a fledging and it being compromised.

Its MORE to do about it being a SLOW HOME SYSTEM

There is NO reason for it to be built THAT slow.

There are POLITICAL and BIG OIL push back LIES for THIS EV charging system that is being built THAT slow. 

Especially in a time when people depend on their autos  daily as you put it.

These LIES that some POLITICAL and BIG OIL clowns have been spewing have allowed this disconnect.

YES...its a fledgling entity. But I wanna know why, a SINGLE business man (Elon Musk and Tesla) has opened up MORE charging stations than an entire COUNTRY FULL of BUSINESS opportunities?  And this SINGLE business man has been doing this for a DECADE already while other business entities are sitting on their asses and just give us EXCUSES as to why EVs will NEVER work...

 

 

[balthazar]

30 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

There were 15,000 in 1920, not 22,000.

It was 15,000 filling stations plus "half as many curbside pumps". No reason to eliminate those fueling locations I can see.

32 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

because of our dependence on foreign oil, we had this in the 70s so maybe you need to stop acting like gas has a trouble free existence in just its firsts 60 years in this country. Just saying.

I'm not denying that historical fact, but I was addressing David's common claim about 'the dawn of the auto industry / the early 1900s' specifically. My post was no attempt to give a complete historical overview.