Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[G. David Felt]

First review of the all new XC40 Recharge, have to say it is looking good.

Preview drive: 2021 Volvo XC40 Recharge electric SUV doesn’t complicate the future (greencarreports.com)

Frunks are the new standard for EVs now. Very cool, I can only imagine on a Suburban how big the Frunk would be.

Crazy to watch, an auto dash cam caught the roof coming off a Tesla Model S in China. Tesla blames the 3rd party company that is authorized for replacement glass roofs. I say just cheap quality work.

Tesla Model S roof seen flying off in dashcam video, Tesla blames third-party shop - Electrek

[G. David Felt]

For those that want a truly beefy off road SUV, but green, then the Ineos Grenadier 4x4 is for you and yes it only comes with black steel rims and is powered by Hydrogen. This comes due to a tie up between Hyundai Nexo technology and Ineos who is building this 4x4 for the UK and European market. The producer of Hydrogen is the Ineos Chemical Company that produces 300,000 tons of Hydrogen per year as a byproduct of chemical manufacturing operations and has a large amount of experience in storing and transporting Hydrogen. They have recently started a new division tasked with building out a Hydrogen station business across the UK and Europe.

Hyundai, Ineos join forces to produce hydrogen | Autoblog

 

[ccap41]

Steel wheels fit that look perfectly. 

[A Horse With No Name]

45 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Steel wheels fit that look perfectly. 

Hell yeah they do....

 

[A Horse With No Name]

[G. David Felt]

Just think, use of Solar, Wind, Geothermal, tidal and hydro to replace all coal and EVs to replace all oil needs, we can then pretty much just support the US needs just fine with oil for other plastics and stuff as has been pointed out by @balthazar and have cleaner air and beaches.

[A Horse With No Name]

19 minutes ago, David said:

Just think, use of Solar, Wind, Geothermal, tidal and hydro to replace all coal and EVs to replace all oil needs, we can then pretty much just support the US needs just fine with oil for other plastics and stuff as has been pointed out by @balthazar and have cleaner air and beaches.

This would be my firm hope. 

[ykX]

Coal is only 23% of electrical energy sources.  Renewable is about 17%.  If renewables completely replace coal (which will take years if not decades) it is still will be only 40%.  The rest is natural gas and nuclear.

@David do you have any estimate of the electric energy capacity required to replace all cars with EVs?

[balthazar]

Gov't will not allow only domestic power-equipment companies to supply the U.S. It was so disappointing that the wind turbine market (parts/tech) was quickly swallowed nearly whole by China; it was a clean break that could've 'created jobs' and disallowed 'foreign controls over our power'. Opportunity squandered. Same will happen upon any vast increases in the 'renewables' segments. It's like Gov't's foot hurts, so it chainsaws one hand off so the foot 'feels better'.

Bill Nye is yet another who fails to see the big picture.

[ocnblu]

6 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

If the star wars storm troopers were ever going to have an official truck this would be the best option for them.

Guarantee you they would miss ICE just like they miss everything else.

[ocnblu]

China:  they're not bad folks, FOLKS!/sarcasm for those disinclined to catch a drift

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

China:  they're not bad folks, FOLKS!/sarcasm for those disinclined to catch a drift

Like everyone, no one is bad, just the power hungry idiots that have no brains and destroy working with others all in the focus of personal power, control and stupidity. Chinese are just as nice of people as Korean, Japanese, French, German, Russian, US, etc.

[balthazar]

In this context tho, 'China' and 'folks' does not refer to individuals.

[balthazar]

[ocnblu]

Amazing how little progress has been made since then.  It's still same-old, same-old with EV. 

It's like Clint Eastwood said, a man's got to know his limitations. 

[ykX]

Since @David didn't answer my question about electric consumption demand as we switch EVs here is a good estimate:

How Much Electricity Will It Take to Power Electric Cars of the Future? (inverse.com)

Since Texas and California consume more electricity than any other states, they provide a good snapshot of what a future filled with electric vehicles might look like. In both cases, an increase in EVs would drive consumption higher, with the potential to strain local infrastructure.

If virtually all passenger cars in Texas were electrified today, the state would need approximately 110 more terawatt-hours of electricity per year — the average annual electricity consumption of 11 million homes. The added electricity demand would result in a 30 percent increase over current consumption in Texas.

By comparison, because of a more temperate climate, California might require nearly 50 percent more electricity than it currently consumes if passenger vehicles in the state were fully electrified. That means California would need to generate an additional 120 terawatt-hours of electricity per year.

In 2018, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, the organization that manages most of Texas’s electric grid, hit a new peak demand of roughly 73 gigawatts on July 19. Looking at the off-peak hours for July 19, 2018, we found the ERCOT grid had spare capacity to provide more than 350 gigawatt-hours of additional electricity if idled power plants continued to operate throughout the day, not just during peak demand.

Based on our estimates, the charging requirements for a fully electrified fleet of personal cars in Texas would be about 290 gigawatt-hours per day, less than the available surplus of generation capacity. In other words, the Texas grid could theoretically charge a fully electrified vehicle fleet today if vehicles were charged during off-peak hours.

When we did the same analysis for California, however, we found that if EVs become the norm, it could push the total demand for electricity beyond the existing capacity of the Golden State’s grid.

To meet that demand, California and Texas would need to build new power plants or buy more electricity from neighboring states than they already do. The states might also need additional transmission and distribution infrastructure to accommodate new automotive charging infrastructure.

[A Horse With No Name]

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

So the jaunkyard pics are Uncar, undone. Nice. 

29 minutes ago, ykX said:

Since @David didn't answer my question about electric consumption demand as we switch EVs here is a good estimate:

How Much Electricity Will It Take to Power Electric Cars of the Future? (inverse.com)

Since Texas and California consume more electricity than any other states, they provide a good snapshot of what a future filled with electric vehicles might look like. In both cases, an increase in EVs would drive consumption higher, with the potential to strain local infrastructure.

If virtually all passenger cars in Texas were electrified today, the state would need approximately 110 more terawatt-hours of electricity per year — the average annual electricity consumption of 11 million homes. The added electricity demand would result in a 30 percent increase over current consumption in Texas.

By comparison, because of a more temperate climate, California might require nearly 50 percent more electricity than it currently consumes if passenger vehicles in the state were fully electrified. That means California would need to generate an additional 120 terawatt-hours of electricity per year.

In 2018, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, the organization that manages most of Texas’s electric grid, hit a new peak demand of roughly 73 gigawatts on July 19. Looking at the off-peak hours for July 19, 2018, we found the ERCOT grid had spare capacity to provide more than 350 gigawatt-hours of additional electricity if idled power plants continued to operate throughout the day, not just during peak demand.

Based on our estimates, the charging requirements for a fully electrified fleet of personal cars in Texas would be about 290 gigawatt-hours per day, less than the available surplus of generation capacity. In other words, the Texas grid could theoretically charge a fully electrified vehicle fleet today if vehicles were charged during off-peak hours.

When we did the same analysis for California, however, we found that if EVs become the norm, it could push the total demand for electricity beyond the existing capacity of the Golden State’s grid.

To meet that demand, California and Texas would need to build new power plants or buy more electricity from neighboring states than they already do. The states might also need additional transmission and distribution infrastructure to accommodate new automotive charging infrastructure.

Changes are coming to the power grid regardless of how we feel about it. Given a Biden presidency, we will see an uptick of immigration, and we will continue to see population rise even without immigration. Technology will continue to move foreard, and people will want more luxuries and more lifestyle accesories. 

All the more reason to develop wind, solar and the like. 

You are also looking at a change over decades. I don't see this being a problem for the grid. 

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Amazing how little progress has been made since then.  It's still same-old, same-old with EV. 

It's like Clint Eastwood said, a man's got to know his limitations. 

Wasn't clint eastwood the one who rambled endlessly and mindlessly at a chair in a political speech once? Methinks you might be emulating your hollywood celebrity buddy a little too closely. 

Try this celebrity instead...

Or this one, now with more ICE

[A Horse With No Name]

They managed to make the Pacer even uglier. 

12 hours ago, ocnblu said:

China:  they're not bad folks, FOLKS!/sarcasm for those disinclined to catch a drift

I prefer my drift japanese, not Chinese, thank you. 

 

15 hours ago, balthazar said:

Gov't will not allow only domestic power-equipment companies to supply the U.S. It was so disappointing that the wind turbine market (parts/tech) was quickly swallowed nearly whole by China; it was a clean break that could've 'created jobs' and disallowed 'foreign controls over our power'. Opportunity squandered. Same will happen upon any vast increases in the 'renewables' segments. It's like Gov't's foot hurts, so it chainsaws one hand off so the foot 'feels better'.

Bill Nye is yet another who fails to see the big picture.

WE can still transition, and should still transition. 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ykX said:

Since @David didn't answer my question about electric consumption demand as we switch EVs here is a good estimate:

How Much Electricity Will It Take to Power Electric Cars of the Future? (inverse.com)

Since Texas and California consume more electricity than any other states, they provide a good snapshot of what a future filled with electric vehicles might look like. In both cases, an increase in EVs would drive consumption higher, with the potential to strain local infrastructure.

If virtually all passenger cars in Texas were electrified today, the state would need approximately 110 more terawatt-hours of electricity per year — the average annual electricity consumption of 11 million homes. The added electricity demand would result in a 30 percent increase over current consumption in Texas.

By comparison, because of a more temperate climate, California might require nearly 50 percent more electricity than it currently consumes if passenger vehicles in the state were fully electrified. That means California would need to generate an additional 120 terawatt-hours of electricity per year.

In 2018, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, the organization that manages most of Texas’s electric grid, hit a new peak demand of roughly 73 gigawatts on July 19. Looking at the off-peak hours for July 19, 2018, we found the ERCOT grid had spare capacity to provide more than 350 gigawatt-hours of additional electricity if idled power plants continued to operate throughout the day, not just during peak demand.

Based on our estimates, the charging requirements for a fully electrified fleet of personal cars in Texas would be about 290 gigawatt-hours per day, less than the available surplus of generation capacity. In other words, the Texas grid could theoretically charge a fully electrified vehicle fleet today if vehicles were charged during off-peak hours.

When we did the same analysis for California, however, we found that if EVs become the norm, it could push the total demand for electricity beyond the existing capacity of the Golden State’s grid.

To meet that demand, California and Texas would need to build new power plants or buy more electricity from neighboring states than they already do. The states might also need additional transmission and distribution infrastructure to accommodate new automotive charging infrastructure.

Thanks for Posting, have a project deadline, so did not have time to dig into this and will not till after Dec 12th to see how this lines up with Washington and Oregon, course we sell a ton of surplus electricity to California.  

Like all things, building and adding capacity will come as the industry moves to EV's and the electricity providers become the new oil barons. 

With the amount of open space not being used, Texas is building solar farms fast and adding capacity at a very large growing rate. They just brought online Upton 2 Solar Farm, a 212 plus MegaWatt production facility and they approved a new 1,310 megawatt facility that just broke ground and will be fully functional starting in 2022 with more solar farms to come. 

California is adding Wind, Solar and Tide power generation, I believe that the states that embrace EV adoption also realize the need to add power and make the grid redundant. Just as they are expanding and building redundancy here in Washington state, I would expect other states to do the same investing in the future, creating jobs, etc.

As Balthazar has stated, change will take time and time is on the side of change as the states adapt and build out.

[G. David Felt]

But ya still cannot beat a 10 second Pontiac Powered Pacer!  

 

We could also do Gremlin Wheelie Drag Racing.

 

[A Horse With No Name]

4 minutes ago, David said:

But ya still cannot beat a 10 second Pontiac Powered Pacer!  

 

 

I bet a certain 9 second 59 Buick would put this on the trailer and look good doing it.

[balthazar]

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Amazing how little progress has been made since then.  It's still same-old, same-old with EV.

C'mon Bill. For the same (equivalent) $90K, one could have this hideous marshmallow or a Model S- they aren't remotely close in any category other than both being electric. Progress within the EV vehicle field is inarguable.

Mainstream acceptance (the lack thereof) is likewise inarguable. The market will continue to set the pace here, not Gov't mandates & bans.

[A Horse With No Name]

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

C'mon Bill. For the same (equivalent) $90K, one could have this hideous marshmallow or a Model S- they aren't remotely close in any category other than both being electric. Progress within the EV vehicle field is inarguable.

Mainstream acceptance (the lack thereof) is likewise inarguable. The market will continue to set the pace here, not Gov't mandates & bans.

China and Europe will see far more electrication  of personal automotive transportation than we will. I think the market will respond to that, and offerings will trickle down into the US market. Nothing wrong with that. I love my gas powered Ford Ranger jsut fine. And I want a gaser Wrangler or Bronco. But eventually I hope to own an EV. Owning it would be cool and different. 

[Drew Dowdell]

2 hours ago, ykX said:

Since @David didn't answer my question about electric consumption demand as we switch EVs here is a good estimate:

How Much Electricity Will It Take to Power Electric Cars of the Future? (inverse.com)

Since Texas and California consume more electricity than any other states, they provide a good snapshot of what a future filled with electric vehicles might look like. In both cases, an increase in EVs would drive consumption higher, with the potential to strain local infrastructure.

If virtually all passenger cars in Texas were electrified today, the state would need approximately 110 more terawatt-hours of electricity per year — the average annual electricity consumption of 11 million homes. The added electricity demand would result in a 30 percent increase over current consumption in Texas.

By comparison, because of a more temperate climate, California might require nearly 50 percent more electricity than it currently consumes if passenger vehicles in the state were fully electrified. That means California would need to generate an additional 120 terawatt-hours of electricity per year.

In 2018, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, the organization that manages most of Texas’s electric grid, hit a new peak demand of roughly 73 gigawatts on July 19. Looking at the off-peak hours for July 19, 2018, we found the ERCOT grid had spare capacity to provide more than 350 gigawatt-hours of additional electricity if idled power plants continued to operate throughout the day, not just during peak demand.

Based on our estimates, the charging requirements for a fully electrified fleet of personal cars in Texas would be about 290 gigawatt-hours per day, less than the available surplus of generation capacity. In other words, the Texas grid could theoretically charge a fully electrified vehicle fleet today if vehicles were charged during off-peak hours.

When we did the same analysis for California, however, we found that if EVs become the norm, it could push the total demand for electricity beyond the existing capacity of the Golden State’s grid.

To meet that demand, California and Texas would need to build new power plants or buy more electricity from neighboring states than they already do. The states might also need additional transmission and distribution infrastructure to accommodate new automotive charging infrastructure.

There's a number of flaws with this, it makes assumptions that aren't part of reality.  It assumes that everyone would plug-in and charge their vehicle at the same time.  I think everyone here can agree that would not be the case. 

Also, most modern chargers are, or have the capability to be, smart chargers.  They can be set up to only charge at the rate required to get to the desired level of charge by a specific time and during specific hours.  What do I mean by that? I'll give you the scenario... these numbers are made up for this illustration, but the actual numbers work the same way.

You drive your Tesla home from work and it has a 60% charge left.  You've had a long day and don't intend to go out again that evening when you get home at 6pm.  Because you want to preserve your battery health as long as possible, you've already set your Tesla to only charge up to 80% capacity.  You plug your car in at 6, but because you get a lower electricity rate starting at 11pm, your charger doesn't start charging the car until 11.  You tell the car that you want to be at 80% charge by 7am tomorrow.  Once the charger kicks in, it only charges at the rate required to get you to 80% at 7am when starting charging even though the charger can go faster. This is much better for the battery as slow charging is better.   So instead of running at the max 11.5 kWh, the Tesla charger will run at say, 8kWh. 

The reason the electric rate is cheap from 11pm to 6am is because that's when usage is lowest. It's the best time for EVs to charge. It takes a long time for power plants to ramp up and ramp down demand (unless they're NatGas Spiker units only used for unplanned spikes in demand).  So a lot of energy gets wasted during this low demand period.

A bunch of EVs charging at night would smooth out demand for utilities significantly.

Do we still need more capacity? Yes. Do we need as much as this article is claiming? No

[A Horse With No Name]

Another EV west conversion, enjoying these. 

 

More Casey 250...fun with a Jeep...

 

ICE in the EV thread...

[G. David Felt]

Seems break throughs are happening for more conductive copper which would allow more efficient electric motors and make them more powerful.

Charged EVs | More conductive copper could increase motor efficiency - Charged EVs

Seems VW ID4 CUV got it's EPA certified rating for the EV at 250 miles of range.

Quote: The ID 4 is the first VW ID model to be sold in the US and is powered by a single rear-axle motor that produces 201 horsepower and 228 pound-feet of torque. The ID 4 will be available later in 2021 with a dual-motor, all-wheel drive setup and a different maximum estimated range.

Volkswagen ID 4 has 250-mile range estimate certified by the EPA - Roadshow (cnet.com)

Seems EV is bringing back RWD to VW.

[balthazar]

[raises glass]
"Here's hoping Great Uncle Floyd can get himself behind the wheel of an electric car faster to 100 MPH than a Porsche 918 Spyder!!"

[A Horse With No Name]

14 hours ago, balthazar said:

[raises glass]
"Here's hoping Great Uncle Floyd can get himself behind the wheel of an electric car faster to 100 MPH than a Porsche 918 Spyder!!"

I want to video tape that and put it on youtube. 

[balthazar]

If EVs ever become mainstream, there’ll be plenty of that.

[A Horse With No Name]

11 minutes ago, balthazar said:

If EVs ever become mainstream, there’ll be plenty of that.

Hope springs eternal. 

[A Horse With No Name]

Electric 7 series, now with smaller BMW grille...

https://insideevs.com/news/434332/bmw-7series-i7-ev-prototype-spy-shots/

[A Horse With No Name]

Rational, thorough Model 3 review. 

 

[A Horse With No Name]

Funny Scotty Kilmer parody video. The anti technology mindset is so common in the automotive world. Same thinking goes on in the anti EV crowd. 

[A Horse With No Name]

 

 

Interesting Video....electric G wagen would be cool. 

 

With more of the world driving, small electrics like this might be the real future of motoring for a big part of the planet. 

 

 

[balthazar]

Constantly evolving 'technology' is supposedly something everyone is supposed to unconditionally love and embrace, but the fact of the matter is, 1. it's a personal preference, and 2. most consumer technology is merely marketing.

A smart phone was a huge advance over a dumb phone. An iPhone 12 is 102% of a iPhone 10. Your needs remain fairly static; what worked for you in 2015 still works in 2020 [feel free to pull those numbers apart another 10 years].

[A Horse With No Name]

Interesting Tesla Road trip. 

 

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

Constantly evolving 'technology' is supposedly something everyone is supposed to unconditionally love and embrace, but the fact of the matter is, 1. it's a personal preference, and 2. most consumer technology is merely marketing.

A smart phone was a huge advance over a dumb phone. An iPhone 12 is 102% of a iPhone 10. Your needs remain fairly static; what worked for you in 2015 still works in 2020 [feel free to pull those numbers apart another 10 years].

Actually I usually try to escape the 21st century by retreating to the hand tool portion of my woodworking shop and reading atual books by candle light in the evening. there is a certain elemental charm your 40 Ford Truck has that these modern cars never will. 

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Constantly evolving 'technology' is supposedly something everyone is supposed to unconditionally love and embrace, but the fact of the matter is, 1. it's a personal preference, and 2. most consumer technology is merely marketing.

A smart phone was a huge advance over a dumb phone. An iPhone 12 is 102% of a iPhone 10. Your needs remain fairly static; what worked for you in 2015 still works in 2020 [feel free to pull those numbers apart another 10 years].

That being said, kind of hard to argue with high 20's MPG on the highway and 7500 pound towing capacity on the Ranger. 

 

 

[balthazar]

Uh-oh.

[A Horse With No Name]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Constantly evolving 'technology' is supposedly something everyone is supposed to unconditionally love and embrace, but the fact of the matter is, 1. it's a personal preference, and 2. most consumer technology is merely marketing.

A smart phone was a huge advance over a dumb phone. An iPhone 12 is 102% of a iPhone 10. Your needs remain fairly static; what worked for you in 2015 still works in 2020 [feel free to pull those numbers apart another 10 years].

The Scotty kilmer parody video is actually rally funny though...he really does nail Scotty. 

Just now, balthazar said:

Uh-oh.

Meet the new boss...same as the old boss. Not surprising. 

One more and then done for awhile....but cool drag race.

 

[A Horse With No Name]

Road trip...

[A Horse With No Name]

 

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

 

This is so much better than the Tesla X!!!

[balthazar]

Rivian definitely seems more purposeful & appealing than the soft boiled egg Model X; but it still needs a nose job badly. Both are lux toys for the few- Tesla sold I think it was 19K Model X in 2019... R1S is unlikely to achieve that in '22 (a supposed full year of production), even tho David believes Rivian will sell 1,000,000.

Edited November 27, 2020 by balthazar

[ocnblu]

10 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Road trip...

Maybe it's part of his devious plan to get rid of her.  Tesla is under investigation by the government for suspension failures on high-mileage cars.

[A Horse With No Name]

30 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Maybe it's part of his devious plan to get rid of her.  Tesla is under investigation by the government for suspension failures on high-mileage cars.

Right...because every EV fan wants to be complicit in the death of a significant other.

[A Horse With No Name]

4 hours ago, balthazar said:

Rivian definitely seems more purposeful & appealing than the soft boiled egg Model X; but it still needs a nose job badly. Both are lux toys for the few- Tesla sold I think it was 19K Model X in 2019... R1S is unlikely to achieve that in '22 (a supposed full year of production), even tho David believes Rivian will sell 1,000,000.

If I wanted automotive reality I would read the Detroit Free Press or talk to someone inside the industry.

I'm just here for the psychosis and delusional ranting...and the pics of vintage iron.

They will sell a million Rivians in 2022...but it will be outsold by the Pontiac Grand Prix and the Plymouth Prowler.

See how easy it is to live in an alternative reality?

[oldshurst442]

26 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

If I wanted automotive reality I would read the Detroit Free Press or talk to someone inside the industry.

I'm just here for the psychosis and delusional ranting...and the pics of vintage iron.

They will sell a million Rivians in 2022...but it will be outsold by the Pontiac Grand Prix and the Plymouth Prowler.

See how easy it is to live in an alternative reality?

Im here for both.  Pics, vintage iron. New iron.  

But news too.  Lots of informed peeps in here.  Lots of good points of views...when there is actual discourse.  

Or...have I made THE mistake of thinking that there is lots of informed peeps in here and perhaps Im waisting my time posting in here?

 

Eventually, I will stop posting in here if things do not improve...

Ill repeat, Im sick and tired of walking on eggshells on what I can or cannot post in here JUST to appease a certain poster... 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by oldshurst442

[A Horse With No Name]

34 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Im here for both.  Pics, vintage iron. New iron.  

But news too.  Lots of informed peeps in here.  Lots of good points of views...when there is actual discourse.  

Or...have I made THE mistake of thinking that there is lots of informed peeps in here and perhaps Im waisting my time posting in here?

 

Eventually, I will stop posting in here if things do not improve...

Ill repeat, Im sick and tired of walking on eggshells on what I can or cannot post in here JUST to appease a certain poster... 

 

 

A huge number of people have given up already.

[ocnblu]

Yeah, where's Dwight, and USA-1, and Casa, etc.  I know I recently begged a good guy, very long-time poster, to stay, despite the slant.  He stayed, but he restricts himself to a very neutral area.  Sad when some views are held to a different standard to the point that very good people just don't want to post.

It's the varying views that spark discourse.  A forum dies when every bird sings the same song.

Watch the lower right corner of this space.

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Yeah, where's Dwight, and USA-1, and Casa, etc.  I know I recently begged a good guy, very long-time poster, to stay, despite the slant.  He stayed, but he restricts himself to a very neutral area.  Sad when some views are held to a different standard to the point that very good people just don't want to post.

It's the varying views that spark discourse.  A forum dies when every bird sings the same song.

Watch the lower right corner of this space.

And I love those guys and thier input. They make me think....as do you.

[A Horse With No Name]

I guess he didn't kill his girlfriend yet...MINI road trip.