Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[G. David Felt]

Since random news on all forms of auto news I reported in Random was stated as not the proper place to be, I have started this Alternative Random.

http://www.chevyjoltev.com

Love the site built to try and get more excitement for this lovely 2 door EV.

This story is Wicked Cool about a 427 Cobra Replica made as an EV with a Tesla Powertrain and Kia EV Battery pack.

https://electrek.co/2017/01/17/classic-427-shelby-cobra-tesla-electric-motor-kia-soul-ev-battery-pack/#more-35518

Mitsubishi 3000 converted to EV using Tesla Motors and VOLT battery packs. 1000HP using two Tesla Ludicrous mode motors. Very cool car.

https://electrek.co/2016/07/21/tesla-hacker-1000hp-electric-car-tesla-drivetrain-chevy-volt-batteries/

Love that they are now hosting an EV Conversion page that covers all auto's and even a EV converted boat.

https://electrek.co/guides/ev-conversion/

EV Rocks!

[G. David Felt]

9 States have signed on to follow California with a ZEV Mandate. Full story can be read here: https://autoalliance.org/energy-environment/state-electric-vehicle-mandate/

The main point is as follows from this screen grab:

Here is where those states line up in regards to their state, county and city gov agencies buying ZEV auto's.

[balthazar]

Good luck raising the ZEV sales by 700% in only 5 years- they've been on the market for 20 now, and BTW; a hybrid is NOT a ZEV.

Edited August 26, 2019 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

Seems the Auto Industry is not the only place for electric mania to take place, Boating with the massive torque is taking off but without all the gov incentives. Seems rich folks love the power while being quiet.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-20/battery-powered-boats-are-the-next-frontier?srnd=premium

[ccap41]

This is a little masturbation corner for Dfelt... ?

[G. David Felt]

The airplane industry is also finding ways to electrify 2 and 4 person plans.  The first 26 planes have been purchased for use in airplane training for pilots.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/quantum-air-orders-26-electric-airplanes-from-bye-aerospace/

Talk about your silent flight, very cool.

Daimler is delivering their first 2 Electric Class 8 Commercial semi's for use to Penske Truck Leasing.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/daimler-to-deliver-first-ecascadia-electric-heavy-duty-trucks/

Seems Daimler has beaten Tesla to delivering Semi Trucks for Commercial use.

Shell Gas Stations just finished installing and opening up for use their first Fast Charger for public use in Singapore.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/shells-greenlots-installs-first-abb-ev-fast-charger-in-singapore/

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

This is a little masturbation corner for Dfelt... ?

Seems you like the Chub rub too!  

[G. David Felt]

Seems Rivian has confirmed that there will be 4 roof top options for te R1S SUV.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1124632_rivian-r1s-suv-to-offer-four-roof-options-but-no-sliding-moonroof

The four roofs include:

- a fixed steel roof
- a fixed glass roof
- a fixed electrochromic glass roof that can automatically darken or leave it to the driver
- a roof with two opaque lift-out composite panels

Loving all these ID3 VW Mules as they are tested against the Kia and Chevrolet Bolt. I know VW is calling it an electric crossover hatchback, but I swear they look alot like the Bolt.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1124726_volkswagen-id-4x-spy-shots-reveal-production-direction-for-crozz-electric-crossover

[ccap41]

3 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Seems the Auto Industry is not the only place for electric mania to take place, Boating with the massive torque is taking off but without all the gov incentives. Seems rich folks love the power while being quiet.

Boats seem like the worst segment to crack into because there's no regenerative braking in water and they're so restrictive in water it would be like a car constantly towing something except worse. 

[G. David Felt]

9 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Boats seem like the worst segment to crack into because there's no regenerative braking in water and they're so restrictive in water it would be like a car constantly towing something except worse. 

Clearly these are toys for the rich around a bay and not real long term boating. 

Yet with that said, we do have the following:

A boat that can go 100 miles a day on pure solar, not too shabby.

https://catamaranguru.com/catamarans/catamaran-concepts/sunwave-54-solar-catamaran

 

[surreal1272]

On 8/23/2019 at 9:24 PM, dfelt said:

Since random news on all forms of auto news I reported in Random was stated as not the proper place to be, I have started this Alternative Random.

http://www.chevyjoltev.com

Love the site built to try and get more excitement for this lovely 2 door EV.

This story is Wicked Cool about a 427 Cobra Replica made as an EV with a Tesla Powertrain and Kia EV Battery pack.

https://electrek.co/2017/01/17/classic-427-shelby-cobra-tesla-electric-motor-kia-soul-ev-battery-pack/#more-35518

Mitsubishi 3000 converted to EV using Tesla Motors and VOLT battery packs. 1000HP using two Tesla Ludicrous mode motors. Very cool car.

https://electrek.co/2016/07/21/tesla-hacker-1000hp-electric-car-tesla-drivetrain-chevy-volt-batteries/

Love that they are now hosting an EV Conversion page that covers all auto's and even a EV converted boat.

https://electrek.co/guides/ev-conversion/

EV Rocks!

Personally I wouldn’t worry about the troll who brought up the “concern” because it was an obvious trolling/butthurt comment. 

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

This is a little masturbation corner for Dfelt... ?

Complete with a disco ball and a mirrored ceiling! Got to make it feel special!

[surreal1272]

On 8/23/2019 at 9:24 PM, dfelt said:

Since random news on all forms of auto news I reported in Random was stated as not the proper place to be, I have started this Alternative Random.

http://www.chevyjoltev.com

Love the site built to try and get more excitement for this lovely 2 door EV.

This story is Wicked Cool about a 427 Cobra Replica made as an EV with a Tesla Powertrain and Kia EV Battery pack.

https://electrek.co/2017/01/17/classic-427-shelby-cobra-tesla-electric-motor-kia-soul-ev-battery-pack/#more-35518

Mitsubishi 3000 converted to EV using Tesla Motors and VOLT battery packs. 1000HP using two Tesla Ludicrous mode motors. Very cool car.

https://electrek.co/2016/07/21/tesla-hacker-1000hp-electric-car-tesla-drivetrain-chevy-volt-batteries/

Love that they are now hosting an EV Conversion page that covers all auto's and even a EV converted boat.

https://electrek.co/guides/ev-conversion/

EV Rocks!

That Jolt has a definite Cadillac ELR vibe but it would never work. To get EVs truly into the mainstream conscience, you have to start with CUVs sadly. Once that happens, then niche cars like the Jolt idea can be explored. 

[riviera74]

That small EV plane is not enough.  Call me when a Boeing 747/757/767 or its Airbus equivalent no longer needs aviation fuel.

[G. David Felt]

55 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

That small EV plane is not enough.  Call me when a Boeing 747/757/767 or its Airbus equivalent no longer needs aviation fuel.

Gotta start somewhere. ?‍♂️

[A Horse With No Name]

14 hours ago, ccap41 said:

This is a little masturbation corner for Dfelt... ?

We who still love the ICE have the option of the Powerstroke..enough to make even me love Ford!

10 hours ago, riviera74 said:

That small EV plane is not enough.  Call me when a Boeing 747/757/767 or its Airbus equivalent no longer needs aviation fuel.

This is reason to use biofuels. Doubtful this will happen in our lifetime on electron power....

[A Horse With No Name]

 

[G. David Felt]

44 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

 

Not only that, but they set a new EV record that MB has yet to get anywhere close too.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2019/products/porsche-taycan-record-nuerburgring-nordschleife-18440.html

Have to say the video on the Porsche news anouncement is very cool.

 

Love the comments on this video of the run Porsche posted and how folks say other than tire noise and the whine of the motor, very quiet and just rushing air.

Very Cool indeed!

Tesla should be shaking in their boots as this clearly looks superior to anything they are building.

[G. David Felt]

How do we engage the youth of today with the Auto industry of the past with a focus on the future in the 21st century?

 

Seems this teacher found a way, ICE to EV conversions in Auto Shop class Converting old Volkswagen from ICE to EV power trains.

http://newsroom.vw.com/vehicles/reviving-auto-shop-classes-for-the-ev-era-one-old-volkswagen-at-a-time/

This is based out of West New York, NJ and the then new teacher Ron Grosinger who started teaching Auto shop class at the school in 2005 was faced with figuring out how to survive with an electrive class that had gone from 6 to 2 teachers, rarely had hands on training and only 27 students.

Today the Auto Shop program has 4 teachers and is nearing his goal of 50/50 young men and woman.

Seems Woman like the cleaner EV approach over the ICE approach.

Over all a great read on how one man is making a difference to drive interest back into the youth over auto's.

Some thing we ALL SHOULD WANT for the long term life of the auto industry.

[G. David Felt]

Generative Design - Do you know what this means?

Generative design is a computing process that mimics evolution to create natural-seeming shapes that maximize strength while minimizing weight!

What does this have to do with the Random EV channel you might ask?

Plenty, Seems innovation is beginning again with America. Specifically what VW largest office outside Germany which is located in Silicon Valley with more than 180 engineers, designers, researchers and social scientists.

VW has allowed this California office to run more like a college campus and the question was asked of how would you blend the BEST of Volkswagen's heritage while embracing the future.

The answer is a team of 25 that took less than 6 months to take a 1962 Type 2 11 window Microbus, strip it down to the bones and rebuild it as a modern 21st Century electric Microbus with 120-hp electric motor and a 10 kW battery pack fitting into the same space of the original power train.

Tons to read about all the future stuff put into this Microbus from the microphones and cameras to the voice enabled access system, lighting, the ultra light weight steering wheel and wheels to the mirror support and seat supports. The Microbus weights less than what it did as an ICE Microbus.

Have to say a very cool story.

Full story here: http://newsroom.vw.com/vehicles/a-new-era-for-volkswagen-innovation-in-america-begins-with-the-type-20-concept/

 

[G. David Felt]

Interesting story but one of the futurist of the auto industry is expecting EVs to reach price parity with ICE auto's by 2023 and ice auto production to cease by 2026.

To quote the writting: 

Wills, the managing director of advisory firm Future Smart Strategies and a board member of remote energy services provider Horizon Power, stated that the future of the automobile is coming, and it’s approaching far quicker than what many expect. 

“The future is coming faster than we think. And when it arrives, we always say it was faster than we thought,” he said in a statement to The Sydney Morning Herald.

The thinking is that we will shift faster to EVs than the long drawn out process of moving to Hybrids and this Wills believes is being shown in the fast drop of the Prius line in sales and people waiting for the roll out of EVs from the auto industry.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-evs-price-parity-gas-cars-2023/

Ford is officially on record that once we reach autonomous auto's they will be crushed after 4 years of use as the ability to recycle them will be faster and the desire for electronic tech in the latest auto will not decrease demand for buying an auto, but increase it as people will want to swap out auto's at a far more frequent pace and a month auto payment will be normal for ever like electric bills.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-ford-full-self-driving-cars-last-4-years-crushed/

Seems like the first tests of building model 3 cars at the China Tesla Gigafactory are going well and the first one is expected off the assembly line Aug 29th. Leaked pictures show the first few auto's going through the assembly process.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafactory-3-footage-model-3-trial-production-video/

 

[balthazar]

Not a single proposed model on the horizon with a sub-median msrp. Even if costs drop so radically that its possible, manufacturers will never do it.

No one has better economies of scale than Tesla, and there the Model S, which used to be $57K, is now $81K.

Edited August 27, 2019 by balthazar

[riviera74]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

Not a single proposed model on the horizon with a sub-median msrp. Even if costs drop so radically that its possible, manufacturers will never do it.

No one has better economies of scale than Tesla, and there the Model S, which used to be $57K, is now $81K.

Sounds like the challenge should be to make a Chevy Trax EV cheaper than the ICE version.  Same with Equinox and Traverse.

[G. David Felt]

1 minute ago, riviera74 said:

Sounds like the challenge should be to make a Chevy Trax EV cheaper than the ICE version.  Same with Equinox and Traverse.

Seems people keep thinking that Economy of Scale will never happen to EVs unlike how it happened to ICE. Early 1900's you had people that laughed at the auto and said the Horse and buggy would never die. 

Amish continue to prove you can survive living in the past at a static point in time, but clearly not scaling up like modern society.

[balthazar]

It will happen one day, just not any day or year soon. Certainly not by “2023” or “2025” as recent articles have proclaimed.

RE the early days of the auto, you were changing the very means of conveyance. In order to mimic todays IC vs. EV, you'd have to try and convince the Year 1900 consumer to trade his horse conveyance for a cow.

Edited August 28, 2019 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

8 hours ago, balthazar said:

It will happen one day, just not any day or year soon. Certainly not by “2023” or “2025” as recent articles have proclaimed.

RE the early days of the auto, you were changing the very means of conveyance. In order to mimic todays IC vs. EV, you'd have to try and convince the Year 1900 consumer to trade his horse conveyance for a cow.

I will agree to disagree with you on this as the ice versus ev is no comparison to a horse and buggy versus cow. Electric is certainly no cow.

[balthazar]

Going from a live animal to a machine is a far bigger change that going from a machine to another machine.

[G. David Felt]

QUESTION: Do you like or use Auto Extended Warranties and why?

EFG Company has launched a new 11 years / 150,000 mile warranty program for all EVs. They call it the Motorist Assistance Plan (MAP) EV Protection. This new auto warranty on top of the OEM warranty covers the following: The new warranty provides coverage for all assemblies and parts, the manufacturer-installed battery, and the motors, although certain specific parts are excluded. It also provides roadside assistance, rental reimbursement, and trip interruption benefits.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/efg-launches-150000-mile-extended-warranty-exclusively-for-evs/

Current OEM warranties are 8 years or 100,000 miles in comparison to 11 years or 150,000 miles.

This brings up a good point of discussion, with thousands of fewer moving parts and much lower maintenance, could we see the OEM move to a 10yr / 100,000 bump to bumper warranty with a 250,000 mile powertrain warranty?

On another Note, the Ford F-59 commercial truck commonly used as a food truck or delivery truck has received it's CARB certification to sell their truck in California and will sell it nationally in two versions, 80 miles and 110 miles EV.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/lightning-systems-receives-ok-to-sell-its-all-electric-ford-f-59-in-california/

Electrify America is deploying 150kW DC Fast Chargers in San Francisco that are robotic in nature requiring no human intervention in charging up EVs.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/electrify-america-to-deploy-commercial-robotic-chargers/

[ccap41]

51 minutes ago, dfelt said:

QUESTION: Do you like or use Auto Extended Warranties and why?

Absolutely not.

They're so ridiculously overpriced I don't even consider them. I think they wanted like $3500-4000 for 3 years or 45,000 miles on my Lincoln. 

[G. David Felt]

When I bought my Trailblazer SS I was offered the GM extended warranty to 7 years and 100,000 miles. When at 76,000 miles or so my Radiator had a leak that leaked into the trans cooler portion and ended up messing up the transmission, I saved myself over $10,000 as they had to replace the transmission, cooling lines and combo Radiator / trans cooler. Was so happy I had that extended warranty. 

Never bought one on my Escalade or any of my other auto's. 

Just figured on my CPO SS that I would cover my bases and glad I did.

FYI, for those wanting to know, GM charges 10% of the sales price of the auto, so my Extended warranty was $2,400. Course I bought my SS in 2011 when people were not wanting gas guzzling auto's. So got a good price on it as less than 24K miles for a 3yr old Leased SUV.

[riviera74]

I had an extended warranty on my Lucerne that lasted three years.  Several repairs (including a radiator leak) were fixed and I only had to pay a $100 deductible the three times the Lucerne needed a significant repair.

About the GM charges for an extended warranty, good to know for my next GM vehicle.  Thanks.

[Robert Hall]

I got the extended warranty on my CPO Jeep for 7 years/100,000 miles.   I don't plan to keep it past 100,000 miles so I figured it was worth it.

[Drew Dowdell]

On 8/27/2019 at 6:04 PM, balthazar said:

Not a single proposed model on the horizon with a sub-median msrp. Even if costs drop so radically that its possible, manufacturers will never do it.

No one has better economies of scale than Tesla, and there the Model S, which used to be $57K, is now $81K.

They've also increased content and introduced a cheaper model. 

[balthazar]

^ Sure, but -just like full-size vs. mid-size trucks- not everyone wants a compact sedan.

I haven't studied it but the S's price jumped an astounding (something like) $18,000. Hope that included a shitload of content.

[Drew Dowdell]

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ Sure, but -just like full-size vs. mid-size trucks- not everyone wants a compact sedan.

I haven't studied it but the S's price jumped an astounding (something like) $18,000. Hope that included a shitload of content.

Bigger battery, dual-motor standard, AWD standard, computer controlled air-suspension standard

[balthazar]

Meh- sounds like more like $6000.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Meh- sounds like more like $6000.

Considering that the Auto Industry loves to Keystone the cost into the markup, being they double the price of their cost and add it to the vehicle, I would say that for Tesla, it probably is a $9,000 cost of parts and labor. So $18,000 markup.

[balthazar]

Industry margins are no where near that high tho.

[Drew Dowdell]

10 hours ago, balthazar said:

Meh- sounds like more like $6000.

A whole second power unit for $6,000?

And to be more clear... Telsa didn't exactly raise the price... they dropped the base models. A P85D was always in the $80k range. 

[A Horse With No Name]

2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

A whole second power unit for $6,000?

And to be more clear... Telsa didn't exactly raise the price... they dropped the base models. A P85D was always in the $80k range. 

So if Cadillac or Lincoln was dropping base models because the more expensive ones the response from the domestic ICE lovers would be...

[ccap41]

It wouldn't be a $24,000 price jump(81k - 57k). 

The Navigator jumps from $73,205 to $77,555 from base to middle model. 

The Escalade jumps from $76,490 to $82,090 from base to the next model/trim.

[balthazar]

16 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

A whole second power unit for $6,000?

And to be more clear... Telsa didn't exactly raise the price... they dropped the base models. A P85D was always in the $80k range. 

Point is - it was an effective price increase. If cost wasn’t a factor, no one would have bought a P75D to begin with. Or a P85D for that matter.

[riviera74]

Sometimes I wonder if GM wants to succeed or not.  If I were running GM, the first thing I would do is dramatically simplify the range of vehicles to the point where there is only ONE trim level per vehicle and price that vehicle very aggressively.  Example: take a Chevy Equinox.  Make it a fully-loaded Premier trim level ONLY and price it about $5000 below current prices.  NO base model and no LT trim levels anymore.  Rinse and repeat throughout the Chevy CAR line (not the pickup trucks or BOF SUVs!).  Of course this will exclude the Corvette since that is the value leader of its segment.  I believe that this will pull buyers to GM and push them away from Hyundai/KIA as well as Toyota and Honda.

Your thoughts?

[G. David Felt]

23 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Sometimes I wonder if GM wants to succeed or not.  If I were running GM, the first thing I would do is dramatically simplify the range of vehicles to the point where there is only ONE trim level per vehicle and price that vehicle very aggressively.  Example: take a Chevy Equinox.  Make it a fully-loaded Premier trim level ONLY and price it about $5000 below current prices.  NO base model and no LT trim levels anymore.  Rinse and repeat throughout the Chevy CAR line (not the pickup trucks or BOF SUVs!).  Of course this will exclude the Corvette since that is the value leader of its segment.  I believe that this will pull buyers to GM and push them away from Hyundai/KIA as well as Toyota and Honda.

Your thoughts?

People love options, the only way this works is if you offer a fully loaded one at the so Premium Value Price and then offer the Alacarte build it yourself option and yet that would greatly reduce inventory on hand and reduce sales I think for people to wait for 8 weeks for their auto to be built, we need to get to a 100% automated robotic assembly line on a skateboard platform with Mini Factories where you stop at your dealer, you pick options and color and it is assembled and you get it the same day. That would work then.

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

People love options, the only way this works is if you offer a fully loaded one at the so Premium Value Price and then offer the Alacarte build it yourself option and yet that would greatly reduce inventory on hand and reduce sales I think for people to wait for 8 weeks for their auto to be built, we need to get to a 100% automated robotic assembly line on a skateboard platform with Mini Factories where you stop at your dealer, you pick options and color and it is assembled and you get it the same day. That would work then.

On the contrary, most modern people want vehicles they don't have to think about. This would indeed only work for a very high end vehicle.

[ccap41]

Things you don't have to think about?

How about a 500 mile range EV with a wireless charging pad for the car/suv/truck in the garage? That sounds pretty ideal to me. 

[G. David Felt]

42 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

On the contrary, most modern people want vehicles they don't have to think about. This would indeed only work for a very high end vehicle.

Really, with the way people love to order their coffee / latte I think people want the flexibility to order up what they want on an Auto as long as they can get it fast same day I would think.

10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Things you don't have to think about?

How about a 500 mile range EV with a wireless charging pad for the car/suv/truck in the garage? That sounds pretty ideal to me. 

Yup 500 miles and wireless charging pad in the garage is perfect.

[ccap41]

42 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Yup 500 miles and wireless charging pad in the garage is perfect.

It doesn't even have to be some super fast charger. It can go at whatever pace because it would be on it for long periods of time overnight. I would imagine a good 10-12 hours and I highly doubt you're using anywhere close to 200 miles of range a day. I think you'd start the day full or lose to full from a slow charging mat every day.

Any estimate on the time it would take to charge on a wireless charger, dfelt? 

You would almost completely forget about gas stations or charging locations. It would be almost perfect. 

If I were to be picky, I'd want maybe 600 miles..

500 miles would get me to my sister's place 5.5hrs away in the winter, with a 30% loss of range, with a dash to spare. That'd be a 350 mile range for winter(assuming worse case). Charging when I get there would be another situation all together but I could cross that bridge when I got there. 

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It doesn't even have to be some super fast charger. It can go at whatever pace because it would be on it for long periods of time overnight. I would imagine a good 10-12 hours and I highly doubt you're using anywhere close to 200 miles of range a day. I think you'd start the day full or lose to full from a slow charging mat every day.

Any estimate on the time it would take to charge on a wireless charger, dfelt? 

Currently there are 3rd party companies that have home wireless charging pads that are 220V and depending on battery size will take from 8 to 14hrs to fully recharge.

Good Read here: https://getelectricvehicle.com/wireless-charging-for-electric-cars/

[Drew Dowdell]

Rarely, if ever, will you pull into your garage with 0 miles range left, so a charge to full could take substantially less time. 

[ccap41]

5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Rarely, if ever, will you pull into your garage with 0 miles range left, so a charge to full could take substantially less time. 

Exactly, that is another reason the slower charging wireless pad would be ideal/okay. It's just another thing to 'not think about'.

 

Realistically, I typically only drive about 25 miles per day mon-fri. The lowest range EV would suffice for 99% of my trips. It's the random 100 mile days on the weekends that would be more of an issue and then visiting my brother/sister 5.5hrs away a couple times per year. 

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Exactly, that is another reason the slower charging wireless pad would be ideal/okay. It's just another thing to 'not think about'.

 

Yes be it parking outside or inside, you just pull up to your home over the pad and go in for the night, come out the next morning fully charged and ready for the day.