Chevrolet News:Chevy Malibu to die after 2024

[Potluck]

Not everyone wants a crossover.  Lots of sedans are still sold... but now chevy won't be selling any of them. 

[G. David Felt]

19 minutes ago, Potluck said:

Not everyone wants a crossover.  Lots of sedans are still sold... but now chevy won't be selling any of them. 

We have no idea of what cars they will have in the EV role out. Very possible for the Malibu to come out as an EV.

[Drew Dowdell]

I doubt they'd call it Malibu.  They're just as likely to turn it into some sort of crossover. They already make a wagon on this platform.  MaliCroz anyone?

[Robert Hall]

I wonder if they will do a 60th anniversary edition in 2024.

[Drew Dowdell]

4 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I wonder if they will do a 60th anniversary edition in 2024.

I'm sure they will.  Start saving up. 

[A Horse With No Name]

On 7/29/2019 at 12:14 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

by the time the SUV/CUV fad fades, the market will have shifted more to EVs and autonomous vehicles... and who know what those will look like. 

Rolling toasters probably. 

One reason my garage is full of woodworking equipment. The era of interesting affordable cars is coming to a close.

10 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'm sure they will.  Start saving up. 

I will be happy with a plastic model, thanks...

[balthazar]

7 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

The BMW 3GT and 5GT would beg to differ.

Those are just misshapen sedans, more obvious since they co-exist with sedans. A brand needs to do a true amalgamation of a sedan & CUV, the best attributes of each, and kill off the 'root vehicles' upon introduction; force the new metric. No one has tried that yet.

Edited July 31, 2019 by balthazar

[balthazar]

On July 29, 2019 at 11:54 AM, Robert Hall said:

 I don't see the Japanese and Korean companies getting out of the sedan market.  When the CUV/SUV fad fades, the Detroit 3 are going to be hurting due their usual short-sighted thinking...

If any 'fad' is fading, it's sedans, not CUVs.

Accord peaked in the USDM in 2001, moving 415K units. As recently as 2014 it was still 388K. 
2019 is on pace to sell 260K.

[texas99alpha]

1) 260k cars is still 260k cars - a lot - a lot more than Chevrolet sells of most of their SUVs.

2) Cost of development is marginal. Modern crossover SUVs are based on a sister car platform. The big winners will be the ones able to leverage both products off of a single platform of shared costs. 

3) GMs sedans have been neglected and not class leading in some time. They're also priced way too high. 

4) EVs aren't for everyone. Very myopic when you live and commute in a single urban environment but highly impractical for those who have longer commutes or travel a lot. Fast charge batteries haven't been proven out in severe conditions or duty either - so don't tell me those are just on the horizon.  EVs also have a high environmental cost. 

[riviera74]

6 minutes ago, texas99alpha said:

1) 260k cars is still 260k cars - a lot - a lot more than Chevrolet sells of most of their SUVs.

2) Cost of development is marginal. Modern crossover SUVs are based on a sister car platform. The big winners will be the ones able to leverage both products off of a single platform of shared costs. 

3) GMs sedans have been neglected and not class leading in some time. They're also priced way too high. 

4) EVs aren't for everyone. Very myopic when you live and commute in a single urban environment but highly impractical for those who have longer commutes or travel a lot. Fast charge batteries haven't been proven out in severe conditions or duty either - so don't tell me those are just on the horizon.  EVs also have a high environmental cost. 

1-3: totally true.  Imagine if all GM sedans were priced about $5000 less than current MSRP.  GM could undercut Hyundai/KIA in ten minutes.

4: EVs may not be mainstream YET, but ask me again in 2030 when they are truly ready for prime time.

[texas99alpha]

The trend of only pursuing the most profitable projects (by today's measure) to please wall st is a little rearward looking. Margins on those projects may be eroded once your purchasing power has declined due to the fact that you cut a bunch of other volume projects with lower margins. A very poor and short term way of looking at the business. GM share will continue to decline, but so will their scale and purchasing power. Margins on their formerly high margin products will be pressured. New buyers won't be coming into the fold because you offer nothing to "start" selling them on. Ride sharing services? That's the answer? Again, a myopic view that works in a highly urbanized environment, but not for "middle america". What I see is a strategy that's not very comprehensive and has a lot of holes that will threaten their future capital programs. 

Edited August 1, 2019 by texas99alpha

[trinacriabob]

I saw this before but it came back up and I saw it again.

I don't understand it.  And I don't see it.

If they eliminate the Malibu, or whatever that niche of car would be named going forward, GM will have no product to offer to the rental and salesperson fleet markets.  The Malibu shores up the segment above it and beneath it, when they chose to eliminate the Chevy full-size and compact.

What I don't understand is how, with boomers growing in numbers among retirees, the demand for sedans dwindles as much as they say it has.  I agree that it'll see a refresh in about 2 years, and maybe continue on for a few more years.  However, I think that a similar vehicle will be slotted into the Malibu's spot, possibly with a different type of powerplant (electric or other variant) and with a different name.

I sort of thought the name "Malibu" was a detriment.  At times in its history, it has been a dowdy car.  Moving over to Buick, I think that their naming a German produced sport sedan "Regal," which has had even dowdier chapters in its history, was a misfire.  I think some nameplates need to go away.  They can come up with other ones.  It's called brainstorming.  As successful as the Cutlass was, Olds was smart to shelve that nameplate and rename their new midsize product the Intrigue.  

Edited April 8, 2020 by trinacriabob

[Robert Hall]

18 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

 

If they eliminate the Malibu, or whatever that niche of car would be named going forward, GM will have no product to offer to the rental and salesperson fleet markets.   

What I don't understand is how, with boomers growing in numbers among retirees, the demand for sedans dwindles as much as they say it has.   

Well, Ford eliminated the Fusion. Midsize mainstream sedan sales have dropped a lot in recent years (even the Camry and Accord have seen declines).    As far as Boomers, some buy Camrys and Accords...many buy CUVs like younger buyers, I assume...

[G. David Felt]

29 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

I saw this before but it came back up and I saw it again.

I don't understand it.  And I don't see it.

If they eliminate the Malibu, or whatever that niche of car would be named going forward, GM will have no product to offer to the rental and salesperson fleet markets.  The Malibu shores up the segment above it and beneath it, when they chose to eliminate the Chevy full-size and compact.

What I don't understand is how, with boomers growing in numbers among retirees, the demand for sedans dwindles as much as they say it has.  I agree that it'll see a refresh in about 2 years, and maybe continue on for a few more years.  However, I think that a similar vehicle will be slotted into the Malibu's spot, possibly with a different type of powerplant (electric or other variant) and with a different name.

I sort of thought the name "Malibu" was a detriment.  At times in its history, it has been a dowdy car.  Moving over to Buick, I think that their naming a German produced sport sedan "Regal," which has had even dowdier chapters in its history, was a misfire.  I think some nameplates need to go away.  They can come up with other ones.  It's called brainstorming.  As successful as the Cutlass was, Olds was smart to shelve that nameplate and rename their new midsize product the Intrigue.  

Most Boomer do not want cars any more, much more easy to drag their old ass across the seats in a CUV.

[riviera74]

54 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

I saw this before but it came back up and I saw it again.

I don't understand it.  And I don't see it.

If they eliminate the Malibu, or whatever that niche of car would be named going forward, GM will have no product to offer to the rental and salesperson fleet markets.  The Malibu shores up the segment above it and beneath it, when they chose to eliminate the Chevy full-size and compact.

What I don't understand is how, with boomers growing in numbers among retirees, the demand for sedans dwindles as much as they say it has.  I agree that it'll see a refresh in about 2 years, and maybe continue on for a few more years.  However, I think that a similar vehicle will be slotted into the Malibu's spot, possibly with a different type of powerplant (electric or other variant) and with a different name.

I sort of thought the name "Malibu" was a detriment.  At times in its history, it has been a dowdy car.  Moving over to Buick, I think that their naming a German produced sport sedan "Regal," which has had even dowdier chapters in its history, was a misfire.  I think some nameplates need to go away.  They can come up with other ones.  It's called brainstorming.  As successful as the Cutlass was, Olds was smart to shelve that nameplate and rename their new midsize product the Intrigue.  

Oldsmobile replaced the 88 and 98 with the Aurora in 1995 and replaced the Cutlass Supreme with the Intrigue in 1998.  New names did not end the sales slide with Olds until it was terminated in 2004.  Yes, GM (Cadillac aside) has largely abandoned sedans for SUVs and CUVs because sedan sales have tanked for the last 5-7 years.  Yes, Boomers do NOT want to stoop down to a sedan because of bad hips and bad knees.  A whole lot of younger buyers followed for their own reasons.  Amazingly, minivan sales have not completely tanked despite Ford and GM leaving that market about ten years ago.

Yes, the Impala has already died and the Malibu will soon join it.  As long as there is a Trax, an Equinox, and a Traverse, Chevrolet will be fine.  Same with the BOF trucks and SUVs.  One day (probably in at least a decade or two), sedans may return to some popularity.  Then again, the CUV seems to have displaced if not completely replaced the family sedan, possibly for good.

[balthazar]

Olds actually saw sales rise quite a bit in '99 but long-term, that's correct. Didn't Olds announce discontinuation in '00 tho? That didn't help that year or the next 4 much.

RE the supposedly ironclad accord, it's down 42% from it's peak and 31% just since 2014. It used to sell 4 times the Malibu, in '19 it only sold twice the Malibu.

[trinacriabob]

On 4/7/2020 at 10:23 PM, balthazar said:

Olds actually saw sales rise quite a bit in '99 but long-term, that's correct. Didn't Olds announce discontinuation in '00 tho? That didn't help that year or the next 4 much.

RE the supposedly ironclad accord, it's down 42% from it's peak and 31% just since 2014. It used to sell 4 times the Malibu, in '19 it only sold twice the Malibu.

The Olds announcement came on December 12, 2000, IIRC.  Not the sort of news I wanted under my Christmas tree.

Back to the Malibu and without talking about EVs.  Hold that thought.  The final model year is likely to be 2024.  That means it will arrive in the fall of 2023.  They are supposedly budgeting for a refresh in 2022.  (Please get rid of that noxious kink in the rear C-pillar ... thank you.)  What would you see them doing to it while still an I.C.E. vehicle for those last 2 years?

Here's the problem with SUVs and CUVs for me.  As others had stated, I don't like the way they look.  Then, it's about money.  At the price point of what used to be a decent heirloom GM sedan, I'd be forced into a crappy SUV or CUV.  I do not like the Trax and the Encore ... clumsy looking, too rounded, small engine that gets poor mileage when in that sort of platform, and poor visibility.  The one CUV I sort of like - the Envision - is too highly priced and I'd have to get the base engine and FWD.  Again, let's not talk EV because I am not interested at this point.  I would want an I.C.E. that has been around for a while.

The reason this stuff is even interesting to me is because I got an automotive loyalty credit card instead of an airline miles credit card.  I didn't see this happening.  Now I'm wondering if I would have been better off with an airline miles credit card.

[riviera74]

6 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

The Olds announcement came on December 12, 2000, IIRC.  Not the sort of news I wanted under my Christmas tree.

Back to the Malibu and without talking about EVs.  Hold that thought.  The final model year is likely to be 2024.  That means it will arrive in the fall of 2023.  They are supposedly budgeting for a refresh in 2022.  (Please get rid of that noxious kink in the rear C-pillar ... thank you.)  What would you see them doing to it while still an I.C.E. vehicle for those last 2 years?

Here's the problem with SUVs and CUVs for me.  As others had stated, I don't like the way they look.  Then, it's about money.  At the price point of what used to be a decent heirloom GM sedan, I'd be forced into a crappy SUV or CUV.  I do not like the Trax and the Encore ... clumsy looking, too rounded, small engine that gets poor mileage when in that sort of platform, and poor visibility.  The one CUV I sort of like - the Envision - is too highly priced and I'd have to get the base engine and FWD.  Again, let's not talk EV because I am not interested at this point.  I would want an I.C.E. that has been around for a while.

The reason this stuff is even interesting to me is because I got an automotive loyalty credit card instead of an airline miles credit card.  I didn't see this happening.  Now I'm wondering if I would have been better off with an airline miles credit card.

Maybe not.  While airline miles may not seem valuable now, they might be in another two years when we travel again. 

 

As for the whole CUV/SUV thing, you will probably NEED that automotive loyalty card because of the rather high MSRPs that are all over the industry these days.  Last thing, perhaps with that card you could use it to get a discount on a two-year old Envision for a reasonable price instead of the rather sky-high price of the new ones.  I really do resent the high MSRP of CUVs and SUVs these days, as if they are all discontinued as of July.  Instead they are as popular as ever.  SAD. 

I would be ecstatic if GM had a clue and built an SS-based Buick (v6 with a v8 option) to crush the 300/Charger twins, but the business case is almost nonexistent.

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

The Olds announcement came on December 12, 2000, IIRC.  Not the sort of news I wanted under my Christmas tree.

Back to the Malibu and without talking about EVs.  Hold that thought.  The final model year is likely to be 2024.  That means it will arrive in the fall of 2023.  They are supposedly budgeting for a refresh in 2022.  (Please get rid of that noxious kink in the rear C-pillar ... thank you.)  What would you see them doing to it while still an I.C.E. vehicle for those last 2 years?

Here's the problem with SUVs and CUVs for me.  As others had stated, I don't like the way they look.  Then, it's about money.  At the price point of what used to be a decent heirloom GM sedan, I'd be forced into a crappy SUV or CUV.  I do not like the Trax and the Encore ... clumsy looking, too rounded, small engine that gets poor mileage when in that sort of platform, and poor visibility.  The one CUV I sort of like - the Envision - is too highly priced and I'd have to get the base engine and FWD.  Again, let's not talk EV because I am not interested at this point.  I would want an I.C.E. that has been around for a while.

The reason this stuff is even interesting to me is because I got an automotive loyalty credit card instead of an airline miles credit card.  I didn't see this happening.  Now I'm wondering if I would have been better off with an airline miles credit card.

FYI, while I agree that the Buick Envision is a bit pricey, as long as you do not mind color, you usually can get the fully loaded Buick Envision for about 1/3rd off at the end of the year. I helped my oldest sister a little over 2 years ago get a fully loaded Envision for $39K including tax and license out the door compared to the sticker price of $51K that was on it.

I see even now a fully loaded Premium II that still stickers for $51K is currently on sale for $44K. I would expect with the all new 2022 coming out this spring that you can get the last model pretty cheap.

[trinacriabob]

3 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Maybe not.  While airline miles may not seem valuable now, they might be in another two years when we travel again. 

As for the whole CUV/SUV thing, you will probably NEED that automotive loyalty card because of the rather high MSRPs that are all over the industry these days.  Last thing, perhaps with that card you could use it to get a discount on a two-year old Envision for a reasonable price instead of the rather sky-high price of the new ones.  I really do resent the high MSRP of CUVs and SUVs these days, as if they are all discontinued as of July.  Instead they are as popular as ever.  SAD. 

I would be ecstatic if GM had a clue and built an SS-based Buick (v6 with a v8 option) to crush the 300/Charger twins, but the business case is almost nonexistent.

As for airline and automaker cards, they encourage different spending patterns.  I think the automaker cards are actually safer.  With airline cards, you visualize wanting to go on a trip annually.  Then, they offer spending bonuses.  Airline cards tend to have maintenance fees every year - not to bad, at about $60.  I took some good trips and got rid of them.  As for an automaker card, they don't kick in until a person is in the market.  The only bonuses that seem to come along are top-off offers. 

Agreed that the ridiculous price points of SUVs/CUVs make the earnings on the card useful.  They'd make a top-off offer useful, too.  The price points and product lines may push me away from GM products.

As for SS-based, I'm guessing you're thinking of the now gone Chevy SS or Pontiac G6, but possibly a little larger.  I don't see it happening, though I think that would be decent.  I think other automakers will steer clear of the Charger/300 twins rather than muscle in on their proven mastery within that small market.

1 hour ago, David said:

FYI, while I agree that the Buick Envision is a bit pricey, as long as you do not mind color, you usually can get the fully loaded Buick Envision for about 1/3rd off at the end of the year. I helped my oldest sister a little over 2 years ago get a fully loaded Envision for $39K including tax and license out the door compared to the sticker price of $51K that was on it.

I see even now a fully loaded Premium II that still stickers for $51K is currently on sale for $44K. I would expect with the all new 2022 coming out this spring that you can get the last model pretty cheap.

David, I wouldn't even go near a vehicle with a sticker of $ 51 K.  Not my thing.  Even with a massive discount.  The more basic Envisions sticker out at about $ 35 K with FWD and $ 37 K with AWD.  It would be easier to consider them when starting the discounting process on those vehicles at around those prices.  I also like the outgoing Envision.  Simpler, too.  I have to warm up to the new one, if I ever will.  That said, I'm not in the market.  The mileage on my current car is too low.

I'm looking out a ways.  That's why I am keeping tabs on what Chevy is doing with sedans and on the Charger/300.