Mercedez Benz News Daimler Books First Quarterly Loss in Ten Years

[Drew Dowdell]

Daimler AG says it has lost €1.2 billion ($1.3 Billion) in quarter two 2019.  This is the company's first quarterly loss since 2009.  Daimler says the primary causes for the loss are airbag recalls and lawsuits and investigations regarding its diesel engines.

U.S. and European regulators have gone after diesel engine emissions after Volkswagen AG was caught in 2015 with cheat software in their engine control computers. The fallout has caused Daimler and other manufacturers to recall those vehicles and update the engine control software. 

Daimler has previously announced cost cutting efforts, including laying off up to 10,000 employees globally.  Further cost cutting efforts are pending, however, Daimler declined to comment on such measures until an investor presentation in November.  The company did say that it would be reviewing its product portfolio and cutting where needed.  Models that have already seen cuts are the Mercedes-Benx X-Class truck and the Mercedes Benz SLC.

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[ccap41]

Luckily Mercedes has "cash out the @ss"   

[surreal1272]

21 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Luckily Mercedes has "cash out the @ss"   

They are “flush with cash”, while standing in front of the toilet apparently. Now we know why they abounded their “worlds best luxury pick up” plan. 

[smk4565]

They are flush with cash, they have over €21 billion in cash and short term investments, €121 billion in current assets and made €7.25 billion last year over €10 billion the year before.  They’ll be fine.

[Drew Dowdell]

10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They are flush with cash, they have over €21 billion in cash and short term investments, €121 billion in current assets and made €7.25 billion last year over €10 billion the year before.  They’ll be fine.

That may be the case... but what kind of cost cutting and shortcuts are they going to take to drive down costs? 

[surreal1272]

17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They are flush with cash, they have over €21 billion in cash and short term investments, €121 billion in current assets and made €7.25 billion last year over €10 billion the year before.  They’ll be fine.

They'll be fine? Well thats good. Now maybe you can tell that to the 10,000 folks they laid off because they are "fine". Companies who have that kind of cash should not have to lay off but we all know where most of that cash sits and sure as hell isn't in the hands of the average employee at Daimler. Can't disappoint those all important stock holders who contribute jack to Daimlers success.

[smk4565]

12 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

They'll be fine? Well thats good. Now maybe you can tell that to the 10,000 folks they laid off because they are "fine". Companies who have that kind of cash should not have to lay off but we all know where most of that cash sits and sure as hell isn't in the hands of the average employee at Daimler. Can't disappoint those all important stock holders who contribute jack to Daimlers success.

That can be said about almost any big corporation.  I don’t think they should pay of 10,000, even though they have 300,000 employees it is still a big number.  Technology automated some jobs away and the auto market is about to shrink, so I know they are hedging their bet.  But sadly stock holders determine what a lot of these companies do.

Edited July 24, 2019 by smk4565

[surreal1272]

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

That can be said about almost any big corporation.  

Deflection. We are talking about the best or nothing that is so flush with cash. Companies that are so flush with cash don’t lay off people. Maybe the truth of the matter is that Daimler is hurting more than you want to admit. 

[frogger]

Layoffs are very common with cash flush companies in the name of "efficiencies" or "refocusing their efforts".  Banks, tech companies etc etc  It is just about the share prices and bottom line, not the people or the places.

[surreal1272]

22 minutes ago, frogger said:

Layoffs are very common with cash flush companies in the name of "efficiencies" or "refocusing their efforts".  Banks, tech companies etc etc  It is just about the share prices and bottom line, not the people or the places.

Just because others have done doesn’t mean it was okay for Daimler to do it. 

[ccap41]

I'm just giving @smk4565 a hard time because we all know MB is his baby. 

I know this is just part of the industry. There are highs and lows and getting ahead of those times is crucial. 

Please, Please axe the GLC Coupe and GLE Coupe. 

[G. David Felt]

So let's take a hard look at MB sales which was posted here:

Based on these numbers for the first 6 months, anything under 10,000 a year sold is not considered profitable by the auto industry, the following models should be cut:

B-Class - Only 6 sold year to date.

SLC - Only 1,187 sold year to date.

SL - Only 928 sold year to date.

AMG GT - Only 1,858 sold year to date.

G-Class - Only 3,819 sold year to date.

Smart - Only 496 sold year to date.

I am sure there are other models that if we broke down the coupe versus regular models we could find additional efficiencies by model reduction.

Also, All customers effective immediately should get refunds for the Vaporware Hypercar that is not able to be made roadworthy and really is a waste of time and money since the F1 engine was never designed for street legal roads.

[smk4565]

I think they should raise the price of the AMG One to $3.5 million and tell the people on the waiting list if they don’t like it too bad, they’ll find someone else.  That would make them an extra $275 million.

[ccap41]

AMG GT and G Wagen are priced high enough that their low sales shouldn't be an issue. You could probably average those 5677 sales at $150,000 per unit.. 

21 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think they should raise the price of the AMG One to $3.5 million and tell the people on the waiting list if they don’t like it too bad, they’ll find someone else.  That would make them an extra $275 million.

Oh that's a good way to lose some of the wealthiest people in the world as clients. 

[G. David Felt]

20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think they should raise the price of the AMG One to $3.5 million and tell the people on the waiting list if they don’t like it too bad, they’ll find someone else.  That would make them an extra $275 million.

The company is bleeding billions and no matter how much you have in the bank, one has to face the music, how much more do you invest in a project that has yet to return a profit let alone break even cost and seems to still not be able to be legal for common road driving? The AMG One needs to be shut down, accept that this was a project that was not possible to achieve and focus on something that is.

[smk4565]

The AMG One was never going to turn profit anyway, it is the right move to make it, they are building a brand image and sometimes that costs money.  Better to do that than be in Cadillac’s position or dead like Mercury or Pontiac.

[G. David Felt]

31 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The AMG One was never going to turn profit anyway, it is the right move to make it, they are building a brand image and sometimes that costs money.  Better to do that than be in Cadillac’s position or dead like Mercury or Pontiac.

Yes, a break even halo auto is always desired, but the issues MB has had with this hypercar is pushing it to the point of cancellation on top of now a 2021 release date. Heck other auto companies could have superior hypercars out by then.

[surreal1272]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think they should raise the price of the AMG One to $3.5 million and tell the people on the waiting list if they don’t like it too bad, they’ll find someone else.  That would make them an extra $275 million.

So just do the opposite of what it takes to NOT lose more money as well as alienate your buyers with a bordering illegal bait and switch tactic? 

 

Mmmkay. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The AMG One was never going to turn profit anyway, it is the right move to make it, they are building a brand image and sometimes that costs money.  Better to do that than be in Cadillac’s position or dead like Mercury or Pontiac.

Why would the “best or nothing” need to build its brand image?

[riviera74]

6 hours ago, frogger said:

Layoffs are very common with cash flush companies in the name of "efficiencies" or "refocusing their efforts".  Banks, tech companies etc etc  It is just about the share prices and bottom line, not the people or the places.

Sad but so so true.  It is always about the search for more money, regardless of who is involved.

[balthazar]

^ And this is true whether one it talking about individuals, companies, corporations or governments. Especially governments.

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, dfelt said:

Yes, a break even halo auto is always desired, but the issues MB has had with this hypercar is pushing it to the point of cancellation on top of now a 2021 release date. Heck other auto companies could have superior hypercars out by then.

They aren’t going to cancel it, and no one will have a better hyper car either. Won’t be until the 2030s when someone builds a better hyper car and it will probably be Mercedes that does it.

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

 

Why would the “best or nothing” need to build its brand image?

That is why they are the best, they keep pushing.  And “the best or nothing” wants the best Nürburgring lap time even though they say it isn’t about lap times, I am sure they want that record and they’ll beat the Aventador SVJ by a full minute and no one is touching that.

[Drew Dowdell]

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They aren’t going to cancel it, and no one will have a better hyper car either. Won’t be until the 2030s when someone builds a better hyper car and it will probably be Mercedes that does it.

That is why they are the best, they keep pushing.  And “the best or nothing” wants the best Nürburgring lap time even though they say it isn’t about lap times, I am sure they want that record and they’ll beat the Aventador SVJ by a full minute and no one is touching that.

The Elon Musk for Mercedes right here... making big promises but delay after delay... and then the eventual goal post shift. 

[ccap41]

I don't think it should be canceled. It is an awesome halo car. As long as they're planning for all of the costs and the market decline, it's no biggie. Spend a billion and 5 years on it. 

Although, if I'm being honest, the hyper car thing has lost my interest once the first batch was replaced in only a couple short years. The 918, LaFerrari, and P1 were epic and amazing in about every way imaginable...then they were replaced not too many years later because technology is changing that fast. 

We went from F40 and 959 in the late 80's to the F1, F40, XJ220, Diablo, EB110, and now there are probably triple that that are in the hyper car game with Koenigsegg, Bugattis, 720S, One:1, SSC's, Enzo, Ford GT's, Paganis, SuperFast, etc... There are just so many out there that they no longer seem that special to me. 

[Robert Hall]

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think it should be canceled. It is an awesome halo car. As long as they're planning for all of the costs and the market decline, it's no biggie. Spend a billion and 5 years on it. 

Although, if I'm being honest, the hyper car thing has lost my interest once the first batch was replaced in only a couple short years. The 918, LaFerrari, and P1 were epic and amazing in about every way imaginable...then they were replaced not too many years later because technology is changing that fast. 

We went from F40 and 959 in the late 80's to the F1, F40, XJ220, Diablo, EB110, and now there are probably triple that that are in the hyper car game with Koenigsegg, Bugattis, 720S, One:1, SSC's, Enzo, Ford GT's, Paganis, SuperFast, etc... There are just so many out there that they no longer seem that special to me. 

I liked some of the 80s-early 90s ones.  Today they are just styleless machines that either sit in garages and are rarely driven, or catch fire when they are driven.   And all that hideous carbon fiber trim---barf.  

Edited July 25, 2019 by Robert Hall

[ccap41]

It isn't like F40's and 959's were ever driven much either though so that's kind of moot. 

I'd disagree on the styling. The list I wrote out all look pretty unique. I don't think you could really see them all lines up and have no clue what brand was what. The two most similar, imo, are the Koenigseggs and SSCs. I feel like the rest are all pretty unique. 

[surreal1272]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They aren’t going to cancel it, and no one will have a better hyper car either. Won’t be until the 2030s when someone builds a better hyper car and it will probably be Mercedes that does it.

That is why they are the best, they keep pushing.  And “the best or nothing” wants the best Nürburgring lap time even though they say it isn’t about lap times, I am sure they want that record and they’ll beat the Aventador SVJ by a full minute and no one is touching that.

Whatever you have to tell yourself Barnum. 

[smk4565]

From he collector perspective, which is where these hyper cars end up, it is about what was special for their time.  The F40 is a $2 million car now.  The McLaren F1 is like a $10 million car.  Each era has a fan base and each era has an important car.  20-30 years from now when people look back at AMG One they will remember how crazy Mercedes was to put an F1 power unit in a road car and how it was the most amazing and sought after car of the time.   Like we do today with an F40 or a 300SL or Ferrari 275 etc

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

It isn't like F40's and 959's were ever driven much either though so that's kind of moot. 

I'd disagree on the styling. The list I wrote out all look pretty unique. I don't think you could really see them all lines up and have no clue what brand was what. The two most similar, imo, are the Koenigseggs and SSCs. I feel like the rest are all pretty unique. 

928 and 959 are the only two cars from Porsche that I love. The rest are just ok, great performance, but just ok to me. The style of those first two are awesome. Used to see Bill Gates drive one of his three various 959 to the crab shack in Kirkland. He loved them before the gov stopped letting the 959 in.

I have to laugh as I find some just love or hate the carbon fiber trim thing. To me, it depends on color and style of how it is incorporated as I can take it or leave it. I do like it on the Cadillac V series of auto's.

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

From he collector perspective, which is where these hyper cars end up, it is about what was special for their time.  The F40 is a $2 million car now.  The McLaren F1 is like a $10 million car.  Each era has a fan base and each era has an important car.  20-30 years from now when people look back at AMG One they will remember how crazy Mercedes was to put an F1 power unit in a road car and how it was the most amazing and sought after car of the time.   Like we do today with an F40 or a 300SL or Ferrari 275 etc

We are no longer in an era of "a" car though. There are too many. Those past eras had those listed cars as completely stand-above-the-rest cars. Now there are 10 hyper-car-level-performance. 

 

And FWIW, collectors' perspective is total sh!t. Drive your cars. 

I know it was odd that Ford made people apply for their GTs but I love that they wanted their stuff driven and not just rolled into an underground garage and parked for the rest of the owners's life. 

Seeing people park cars with under 10 miles on them is infuriating as somebody who loves to drive and will likely never have the opportunity to drive anything special like what people park. 

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

We are no longer in an era of "a" car though. There are too many. Those past eras had those listed cars as completely stand-above-the-rest cars. Now there are 10 hyper-car-level-performance. 

 

And FWIW, collectors' perspective is total sh!t. Drive your cars. 

I know it was odd that Ford made people apply for their GTs but I love that they wanted their stuff driven and not just rolled into an underground garage and parked for the rest of the owners's life. 

Seeing people park cars with under 10 miles on them is infuriating as somebody who loves to drive and will likely never have the opportunity to drive anything special like what people park. 

This times a Million! Tired of seeing so called special auto's bought and parked in private collections and never seen on the streets. Makes sure to sell to people who will commit to driving them.

[ccap41]

14 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I do like it on the Cadillac V series of auto's.