Industry News: Trump's Tariff Threat Turned Out To Be A Farce

[G. David Felt]

30 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

There is no scale or units on the left side of the graph. What do those numbers even mean? 

 

22 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I think 100 is the baseline of 1827.   So 'VIII Trumps Tariffs' is roughly 30% of the 1827 level, 'Smoot-Hawley' just under 50%, etc.

Yes, when you read the story I at least took it to be the Percent of the Tariff applied to the cost of the product. Yet with that said, I can totally understand that without a clear statement of what that number means it would be confusing for people. I have actually reached out to the writer of the story to ask him for clarification of those numbers. Will post the reply once I hear back.

Thank you both ?

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

 

Yes, when you read the story I at least took it to be the Percent of the Tariff applied to the cost of the product. Yet with that said, I can totally understand that without a clear statement of what that number means it would be confusing for people. I have actually reached out to the writer of the story to ask him for clarification of those numbers. Will post the reply once I hear back.

Thank you both ?

What kind of rookie doesn't label their graphs?!? 

[Robert Hall]

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

What kind of rookie doesn't label their graphs?!? 

well, 100 units is bigger than 50 units, or 30 units.  That much is clear.

[A Horse With No Name]

At any rate...business does not l8ke uncertainty. This creates unneeded tension and chaos in the economy.

[ccap41]

33 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

well, 100 units is bigger than 50 units, or 30 units.  That much is clear.

It doesn't even state units. There's zero label. It could be deaths. It could be births. It could be any variety of things and it should be pretty basic reporting to include labels. Having accurate graphs that aren't misleading in anyway can only builds their reputation.

[Robert Hall]

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It doesn't even state units. There's zero label. It could be deaths. It could be births. It could be any variety of things and it should be pretty basic reporting to include labels. Having accurate graphs that aren't misleading in anyway can only builds their reputation.

It's units of something, and 100 > 50. 

[ccap41]

34 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

It's units of something, and 100 > 50. 

iS iT rEaLlY?

[oldshurst442]

6 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

We should dynamite mount Rushmore, it is a moral and visual desecration to a sacred Indian mountain.  Making it in the first place was wrong, keeping it there is wrong also. Dynamite for the win. The sooner the better.

This...I did NOT know.

I was always in awe of Mount Rushmore, but learning this about it being sculpted on sacred Indigenous Native American land...I all of a sudden view it in a different light. 

 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

This...I did NOT know.

I was always in awe of Mount Rushmore, but learning this about it being sculpted on sacred Indigenous Native American land...I all of a sudden view it in a different light. 

 

They say it was done to hide sacred Indian locations, so who knows maybe National Treasure is right, hidden city of gold? ?‍♂️

[oldshurst442]

@ocnblu   @Drew Dowdell

Why you laughing Blu?   (plus all the downvoting you do when somebody mentions THEIR opinion on politics that is different from yours yet you dont offer anything of value...just dumb rhetoric...as if you are knowledgeable on the subjects...) 

The massacre of Natives is funny to you?

Why?

You think its because it happened in the past that we should all just ignore history?

Because you think it wasnt you personally that harmed Natives that somehow its all good now?

Greeks were slaves to the Turks for 400 years during that horrid Ottoman Empire.  Every March 21, Greeks celebrate their FREEDOM (Its called their Independence Day...but THAT is false...Greece was ALWAYS independent...we FREED ourselves)

Greeks dont EVER want to forget that...and for you...that would be stupid, right?

In THIS situation....we want the Natives to just go away?  Because your laughy thingy says exactly THAT to me...

How does that work?  How does that work in the eyes and skin of a Native? 

Its easy for Greece and Greeks to start moving on from that past as the Ottoman Empire is no longer around....yet it still is...Constantinople and Cyprus is a very harsh reminder, but at least the main mainland Greece...Greece gets to be HELLENIC.

In North America...the Natives see their land STILL being occupied bu NON Natives...and YOU have the AUDACITY to laugh?

You know...politics is a strange animal...

Politics involves EVERYTHING we do in our CIVIC lives.  

But, some aspects of politics is very human related. And when we are so IGNORANT on the plight of peoples because of our PAST politics and just want it to go away...well...

You know Blu...I COULD discuss cars with you...its fun...but you are one very IGNORANT individual with everything else...

I for one...will vote NOT to have a political forum open for us to discuss....

Not for me...for YOU...

Im embarrassed for you and your ignorance... 

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by oldshurst442

[ocnblu]

Oh cry me a river.  Good grief.

[surreal1272]

Some people just seem to go out of their way to prove why politics can’t be discussed in any reasonable manner. Sad. 

[ocnblu]

[daves87rs]

Well, Trump could change his mind tomorrow about that.....

But let me be real (and respectful) for a moment. Most of the people in this thread (and forum) and definitely not Trump suppporters. So no matter what, it does make it hard to have a civil conversation at times. Ocn is in that minority, and I can see at times why he does lash out. Whether we agree with Trump or not, I try to respect the fact that people support him, even if I might not agree with the reasons. It’s simply how I keep my friends in real life, facebook, or even here. You guys are my friends, not always for your opinions, but our love of the same things. ?  While he might not agree on politics, pretty sure most of us would not say no to a nice 55 Chevy (or maybe a new Corvette). I think a politics section would work fine is long as we can ask the question: why? Otherwise, it simply turns into petty issues.....

 

Adding to the topic quickly, I can say he (Trump)is quite good at the dog and pony show..... ? One of the best showboaters.......

Edited June 16, 2019 by daves87rs

[surreal1272]

6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

And continuing to offer nothing of substance and supporting the narrative that some folks kind handle political discussion. 

 

Honestly blu, it’s pretty pathetic at this point yet also a pretty typical response since you have offered nothing here but snarky remarks and down votes because there are thoughts and words here that don’t line up with yours. 

 

Cry me a river indeed. 

 

And they call liberals “snowflakes”. 

57 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

Well, Trump could change his mind tomorrow about that.....

But let me be real (and respectful) for a moment. Most of the people in this thread (and forum) and definitely not Trump suppporters. So no matter what, it does make it hard to have a civil conversation at times. Ocn is in that minority, and I can see at times why he does lash out. Whether we agree with Trump or not, I try to respect the fact that people support him, even if I might not agree with the reasons. It’s simply how I keep my friends in real life, facebook, or even here. You guys are my friends, not always for your opinions, but our love of the same things. ?  While he might not agree on politics, pretty sure most of us would not say no to a nice 55 Chevy (or maybe a new Corvette). I think a politics section would work fine is long as we can ask the question: why? Otherwise, it simply turns into petty issues.....

 

Adding to the topic quickly, I can say he (Trump)is quite good at the dog and pony show..... ? One of the best showboaters.......

I have no problem if someone is a Trump supporter. The problem is when they offer no real argument to defend their position or anything else that would reasonably explain his policies and actions. They come off as echo chambers or deflect to things like Hillary or Obama (a tactic already used by one Trump supporter here). Deflection is not debating or discussing and that is pretty much all Blu has offered on this thread. Might as well be talking about EVs at this point because it’s pretty much the same behavior. 

[balthazar]

Up votes & down votes aren’t actually a real thing. IMO a downvote is simply pause to reflect on what I said as opposed to what I think the voter felt. I’m probably not going to change their opinion, but I might change mine if I came to a different conclusion/ had different information.

[ocnblu]

I am not one to harp and harp and harp.  My opinions should be clear.  I vote no on a re-opening of the politics section... simply because the two opposing camps are not treated equally by the site owner... when you have an uphill battle to remain balanced and fair, of course those who think like me would vote NO.

 

As far as the Italian-American who posed as an oppressed Native, and whose famous commercial was sponsored by entities who advocated for single-use beverage containers, I shed no tears for him.  The commercial duped millions of Americans.  He was like the Elizabeth Warren of environmental causes.

[G. David Felt]

@ocnblu So then this is fake news to you.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/trump-campaign-cutting-ties-pollsters-after-internal-numbers-leaked-n1017991

Yet incompetence in leading our country and trade has led other countries to now impose tariffs on us.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/06/16/trade-war-india-hits-u-s-more-tariffs/1471140001/

Apple Exports hit with 70% Tariff and now exports will die off on top of many other things we export out of the country.

Get ready for Depression 2 coming and this is truly all Trump.

[balthazar]

21 minutes ago, dfelt said:

...has led other countries to now impose tariffs on us.

Whatever do you mean by "now"??

[surreal1272]

“Can’t handle” not “kind handle”. 

 

Thanks a lot autocorrect. 

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

I am not one to harp and harp and harp.  My opinions should be clear.  I vote no on a re-opening of the politics section... simply because the two opposing camps are not treated equally by the site owner... when you have an uphill battle to remain balanced and fair, of course those who think like me would vote NO.

 

As far as the Italian-American who posed as an oppressed Native, and whose famous commercial was sponsored by entities who advocated for single-use beverage containers, I shed no tears for him.  The commercial duped millions of Americans.  He was like the Elizabeth Warren of environmental causes.

Like you said, cry me a river. If the site owner were a Trump supporter, you’d be singing a vastly different tune. It’s also funny that you assume that those who “think” like you would share the same opinion as you regarding political discussion. I personally know plenty of Trump supporters who have no problem with it so maybe the problem is just you and your personal hang ups.

 

And while you berate Warren (who I don’t care for at all) you would openly ignore all of Trump false representations of himself. 

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Up votes & down votes aren’t actually a real thing. IMO a downvote is simply pause to reflect on what I said as opposed to what I think the voter felt. I’m probably not going to change their opinion, but I might change mine if I came to a different conclusion/ had different information.

Oh I agree but in the context of what I’m saying, it perfectly reflects the inability to have a open dialogue with said person who just bitches about not getting his fair shake on this site, politically speaking which quite frankly is a cop out. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Whatever do you mean by "now"??

Correct, we have always had countries that have added Tariffs to protect their local competitors. Yet a country has dropped Tariffs like India did once we had a signed trade agreement. 

Then Idiot in Office for no reason other than to complain about H1 visa's as too many workers coming here for jobs and with throwing away a signed agreement opens up a trade war with another country.

The bully on the playground has never been a win long term for anyone.

Unhappy with certain trade aspects, sit down like adults and discuss it rather than throw a tantrum. This tantrum administration has already destroyed America in the eyes of Billions around the world and not gained us anything.

[oldshurst442]

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

when you have an uphill battle to remain balanced and fair,

You...have NEVER remained balanced and fair...

But...Its OK...we have common ground as I too, dont want a political forum opened up...

Why?

Because YOU have proven even with EVs....that YOU REFUSE to have ANY discussion.

One small example.

I once mentioned that I see  5 different Tesla Model 3s daily...

YOU immediately scoffed at that.  

I proceeded to explain to you why in Quebec Tesla has no problem in selling cars and I proceeded to explain to you why EVs, not just Tesla cars, will be a major force in Quebec in the very near future.

YOU...then...just short of calling me a liar...dont believe me. YOU will NOT listen to me whatever I say....

I not here to change your mind...

But at the same time...YOU ONLY have YOUR ways off thinking and WILL NEVER budge on ANYTHING...

While YOU EXPECT EVERYBODY ELSE to cater to YOUR whims...

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

simply because the two opposing camps are not treated equally by the site owner... when you have an uphill battle to remain balanced and fair, of course those who think like me would vote NO.

 

THIS post is PROOF positive of what Im talking about...

YOU dont treat ANYBODY equally that opposes YOUR view...

What uphill battle?

A discussion?

A discussion that PROVES your logic is flawed?

YOU dont believe me that Quebec is a strong EV market...

I even TELL you why...

I, on the other hand...UNDERSTAND why in YOUR area EVs may NEVER take-off...

But YOU will NEVER be able to SEE what is in MY NECK OF THE WOODS and YOU REFUSE to ACCEPT what I tell you...

YOU FLAT OUT TREAT ME LIKE A BULLSHYTER!!! 

SO... STOP THE CRYING!!!

 

 

 

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Correct, we have always had countries that have added Tariffs to protect their local competitors.

Did they sit down with us & discuss the matter like adults?
Has the "long term" run out for China and are they 'losing' now?

Or still 'winning'??

[oldshurst442]

You want more proof @ocnblu?

On 6/11/2019 at 5:48 PM, oldshurst442 said:

This...I did NOT know.

I was always in awe of Mount Rushmore, but learning this about it being sculpted on sacred Indigenous Native American land...I all of a sudden view it in a different light. 

This post here...that I wrote is neither positive nor negative.

That post that I wrote shows NO leanings of how I feel about Mount Rushmore, Natives, and Americans past and/or present...

YOU took it personal and laughed at it...(then I took it personal because I SAW RIGHT THROUGH YOU!!!)

THIS is the equality YOU are talking about???!!!

I am STILL in awe with Mount Rushmore...

I did NOT know it was built on sacred Native land...

I respect history...all MY post said...all I wanted to state, is that NOW, I will be a even more sensitive to Native American history...hence I will be viewing it in a different light...

NOW...I am MORE knowledgeable about what is what...

hence why I ranted....this post...

On 6/15/2019 at 7:47 AM, oldshurst442 said:

Its easy for Greece and Greeks to start moving on from that past as the Ottoman Empire is no longer around....yet it still is...Constantinople and Cyprus is a very harsh reminder, but at least the main mainland Greece...Greece gets to be HELLENIC.

In North America...the Natives see their land STILL being occupied bu NON Natives...and YOU have the AUDACITY to laugh?

And why I called YOU up on it...

On 6/15/2019 at 7:47 AM, oldshurst442 said:

The massacre of Natives is funny to you?

Why?

You think its because it happened in the past that we should all just ignore history?

Because you think it wasnt you personally that harmed Natives that somehow its all good now?

Greeks were slaves to the Turks for 400 years during that horrid Ottoman Empire.  Every March 21, Greeks celebrate their FREEDOM (Its called their Independence Day...but THAT is false...Greece was ALWAYS independent...we FREED ourselves)

Greeks dont EVER want to forget that...and for you...that would be stupid, right?

In THIS situation....we want the Natives to just go away?  Because your laughy thingy says exactly THAT to me...

How does that work?  How does that work in the eyes and skin of a Native? 

Especially the bolded part...

 You dont see a pattern here?

You think Im lying to you about how I feel?

The pattern is this:

History was NOT kind to the Natives...

I am SENSITIVE to that fact...I COULD relate because the Ottoman Empire was not kind to Greece and Greece lost a lot of land to Turkey...yeah...like the Natives...

I do NOT EVER want forget and ignore history...seems like YOU want to brush  this under the rug...

and then what do you do?

You put the blame on others...

Did YOU treat me as an equal?

Did YOU actually understand what I wrote?

OF COURSE NOT!!!

CRY ME A RIVER IS WHAT YOU WROTE!!!!

Which I already KNEW your response...

I wrote this before YOU wrote cry me a river...because I KNOW you dont care...I KNOW YOU WILL NOT LISTEN NOR CHANGE YOUR IGNORANT WAYS!!!

On 6/15/2019 at 7:47 AM, oldshurst442 said:

Why?

You think its because it happened in the past that we should all just ignore history?

Because you think it wasnt you personally that harmed Natives that somehow its all good now?

Greeks were slaves to the Turks for 400 years during that horrid Ottoman Empire.  Every March 21, Greeks celebrate their FREEDOM (Its called their Independence Day...but THAT is false...Greece was ALWAYS independent...we FREED ourselves)

Greeks dont EVER want to forget that...and for you...that would be stupid, right?

In THIS situation....we want the Natives to just go away?  Because your laughy thingy says exactly THAT to me...

How does that work?  How does that work in the eyes and skin of a Native? 

Its easy for Greece and Greeks to start moving on from that past as the Ottoman Empire is no longer around....yet it still is...Constantinople and Cyprus is a very harsh reminder, but at least the main mainland Greece...Greece gets to be HELLENIC.

In North America...the Natives see their land STILL being occupied bu NON Natives...and YOU have the AUDACITY to laugh?

 

So yeah...I am embarrassed for YOU, my friend... 

 

Edited June 16, 2019 by oldshurst442

[ocnblu]

I never said you willfully lied about anything, dear boy.

[oldshurst442]

38 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

I never said you willfully lied about anything, dear boy.

 

Quote

 

willfully lied...

 

Even in THAT response... you are condescending...if it aint laughy things, its downvotes...whatever the case may be...you try to put doubt towards what the other guy is saying to you...instead of back and forth banter...instead of exchanging ideas...

WILLFULLY...

Meaning...my posts are not accurate no matter what.   I aint lying...its just that I think Im saying the truth.   Is what you want to imply, right?    Instead of actually pondering what the other guy is saying to you, you IMMEDIATELY dismiss and CLOSE yourself to your own world!!!

THAT is why YOU can and NEVER be able to discuss ANYTHING political......  YOU choose to NOT accept ANY ideas that are presented to you...

Not me, not everyone else.  YOU.

THIS,  is on you!!! 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by oldshurst442

[ocnblu]

Too many words to process.  Gimme a hug.  Have a good week.

[daves87rs]

I think if you guys haven’t seen Ocn is just rattling your cages, I’m not honestly sure what to tell you. On my other car sites, when someone says something not well liked, they just get ignored....and either it stops or they get blocked.

Oh, I remember those old internet days, epic car battles and trolling-I could always imagine folks darn near typing their keyboards in anger..(kinda like facebook now. ? )

Myself I am a pretty calm and open minded guy- but their are times when an epic troll is needed.... ? 

[balthazar]

Who's up for a therapeutic 'roast' thread?? 

[ocnblu]

I'll bring the ribs and sweet corn.

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I'll bring the ribs and sweet corn.

Hell yes. I love ribs...and sweet corn. I will bring desert. 

[A Horse With No Name]

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

Did they sit down with us & discuss the matter like adults?
Has the "long term" run out for China and are they 'losing' now?

Or still 'winning'??

We need to be the adults in the room. Open to discuss what that would actually look like.

[balthazar]

At times it feels like the US is chained to China’s radiator & getting beaten regularly & for years. We’ve had numerous ‘adult’ negotiations, but we’re still in economic shackles. 

[ocnblu]

It is about time we have someone in there that actually sees this and has the gumption to do something.  We've been the world's piggy bank for WAY too long.

[G. David Felt]

23 minutes ago, balthazar said:

At times it feels like the US is chained to China’s radiator & getting beaten regularly & for years. We’ve had numerous ‘adult’ negotiations, but we’re still in economic shackles. 

We'll Posted, I would agree that while we need adult cool level head discussions, we seem to give more than we get in return.

As one who is college educated in Japan, I can tell you they never say no to your face, but are very business hard negotiators. We need to take the same attitude with Japan, Korea, China, and India. But rather than throw away current trade agreements and this tariff war, we need to take an educated brain approach in pointing out the areas that are unfair and way we view it as unfair and what we feel needs to be done to BALANCE that unfair trade aspect.

Communication using our educated knowledge is the great tool to balance our Multicultural society I believe.

1 minute ago, ocnblu said:

It is about time we have someone in there that actually sees this and has the gumption to do something.  We've been the world's piggy bank for WAY too long.

+1 Zillion! Well said, we need an educated adult with a proper balance of real business knowledge to take our trade agreements and negotiate those aspects that are out of balance with fair proper notification and set dates of when needed tariffs that make products from that place and here equal to each other.

Perfect example of wasted billions is our defense spending on guarding the oil tankers from the arab countries that go to other countries with no benefit to us. Our cost of giving protection from pirates and hostile countries but nothing that actually covers that cost. Have them pay us to offer protection or supply it themselves.

Thank you,

[ccap41]

12 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Too many words to process.  Gimme a hug.  Have a good week.

I've given up there as well. 

[Drew Dowdell]

21 hours ago, ocnblu said:

simply because the two opposing camps are not treated equally by the site owner...

 

Narrator: This is false. 

[G. David Felt]

For those that like to read well documented information from our own academia, then this is a great read with excellent sources:

https://taxfoundation.org/impact-of-tariffs-free-trade/

I really like this report and the hard facts they have of going back so far.

Quote:

Academic studies have quantified the costs of tariffs and shown that tariffs often fail to achieve their objectives.[19] A comprehensive study of tariffs in place in 1990 found that the annual consumer costs per American job “saved” range from $100,000 to over $1 million, with an average of $170,000.[20] More recently, a study analyzing the 2002 steel tariffs imposed by the George W. Bush administration found that the first year the tariffs were in effect, more American workers lost their jobs due to higher steel prices (200,000) than the total number employed by the steel industry itself at the time (187,500).[21]

These results aren’t unique to the 2002 steel tariffs. A Congressional Budget Office report from 1986 reviewed the effects of protectionist policies covering textiles and apparel, steel, footwear, and automobiles. The policies did effectively increase costs, which resulted in slightly higher profits for the firms. However, the report finds, “In none of the cases studied was protection sufficient to revitalize the affected industry.”[22]

The outcomes of past protectionist policies indicate that protectionism simply does not work. Any potential short-term benefits of using protectionist policies to shield domestic industries from foreign competition come at the expense of others in the economy; the consequences are higher prices, less efficient resource allocation, and job losses throughout other sectors, and in the long run, failure to help the intended beneficiaries.

Another Quote:

For example, according to the Tax Foundation’s Taxes and Growth model, President Trump’s proposal to raise taxes by approximately $37.5 billion annually (by levying a 25 percent tariff on $150 billion worth of Chinese imports) would reduce the long-run level of GDP by 0.1 percent, or about $20 billion.[34] The smaller economy would result in 0.1 percent lower wages and 79,000 fewer full-time equivalent jobs. The tariffs will also make the U.S. tax code less progressive because the increased tax burden would fall hardest on lower- and middle-income households.[35]

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

We'll Posted, I would agree that while we need adult cool level head discussions, we seem to give more than we get in return.

As one who is college educated in Japan, I can tell you they never say no to your face, but are very business hard negotiators. We need to take the same attitude with Japan, Korea, China, and India. But rather than throw away current trade agreements and this tariff war, we need to take an educated brain approach in pointing out the areas that are unfair and way we view it as unfair and what we feel needs to be done to BALANCE that unfair trade aspect.

Communication using our educated knowledge is the great tool to balance our Multicultural society I believe.

+1 Zillion! Well said, we need an educated adult with a proper balance of real business knowledge to take our trade agreements and negotiate those aspects that are out of balance with fair proper notification and set dates of when needed tariffs that make products from that place and here equal to each other.

Perfect example of wasted billions is our defense spending on guarding the oil tankers from the arab countries that go to other countries with no benefit to us. Our cost of giving protection from pirates and hostile countries but nothing that actually covers that cost. Have them pay us to offer protection or supply it themselves.

Thank you,

I’d like to add the sale of over $100,000,000 worth of weapons to Saudi Arabia, a “deal” orchestrated by the master negotiator and the same country committing atrocities in Yemen who pretends to be our “ally” but really isn’t (reference 9/11 and the recent murder of a Wash Po journalist as examples of this allied farce). Guess we will always have North Korea though right? Oh wait. 

[G. David Felt]

Current Harmonized Tariff Schedule as of June 2019

https://www.usitc.gov/tata/hts/index.htm

[ocnblu]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Narrator: This is false. 

LOL after all the anti-Trump posts in random (not even a whiff of "political" anywhere else) threads are left up on the boards after being reported?  Riiiiight...

[Drew Dowdell]

3 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

LOL after all the anti-Trump posts in random (not even a whiff of "political" anywhere else) threads are left up on the boards after being reported?  Riiiiight...

I left your anti-Warren stuff up too.

[ocnblu]

Oh OK thanks Drew

[balthazar]

 

Quote

A comprehensive study of tariffs in place in 1990 found that the annual consumer costs per American job “saved” range from $100,000 to over $1 million, with an average of $170,000.

If taxes (which a tariff is on imported, non-jurisdictional commerce) "cost" American jobs, why not reduce ALL U.S .taxes across the board by a tangible amount? Make unemployment 0% and pull more workers in from those who dropped out of looking for work (some 60 million).

 

Quote

The outcomes of past protectionist policies indicate that protectionism simply does not work.

So protectionism simply does not work for China? How the hell else has that country risen so far so fast?

These 'blinders-on' "comprehensive analysis's" seemingly always fail to look at the broader picture, and commonly invoke singular examples especially suited to support a POV (the steel industry- one whose health began to be chipped away at by China (chiefly) DECADES before 2002. 'Didn't save the industry' = too little too late). 

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

 

If taxes (which a tariff is on imported, non-jurisdictional commerce) "cost" American jobs, why not reduce ALL U.S .taxes across the board by a tangible amount? Make unemployment 0% and pull more workers in from those who dropped out of looking for work (some 60 million).

 

So protectionism simply does not work for China? How the hell else has that country risen so far so fast?

These 'blinders-on' "comprehensive analysis's" seemingly always fail to look at the broader picture, and commonly invoke singular examples especially suited to support a POV (the steel industry- one whose health began to be chipped away at by China (chiefly) DECADES before 2002. 'Didn't save the industry' = too little too late). 

 

Valid points, one thing that is also missed here is that as a country becomes more educated the manual labor of jobs is less desired, less wanted. Those jobs tend to move to places with a much less educated workforce also.

It would be interesting to compare the % of labors in China to their college educated workforce and compare that to America.

Jobs and type of work desired changes over time, this leads to people not wanting to do work in those fields and if you cannot find workers locally, you move the work elsewhere that has a labor pool.

The ability to have 0% unemployment will never happen even in a perfect society, there are always lazy people who do not want to work, but are happy to lay around and barely survive off a government hand out.

[surreal1272]

38 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

LOL after all the anti-Trump posts in random (not even a whiff of "political" anywhere else) threads are left up on the boards after being reported?  Riiiiight...

What you called “anti-Trump” posts, sensible folks call “pointing out facts”. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by surreal1272

[A Horse With No Name]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

At times it feels like the US is chained to China’s radiator & getting beaten regularly & for years. We’ve had numerous ‘adult’ negotiations, but we’re still in economic shackles. 

And its getting worse all of the time. 

[surreal1272]

13 minutes ago, balthazar said:

 

If taxes (which a tariff is on imported, non-jurisdictional commerce) "cost" American jobs, why not reduce ALL U.S .taxes across the board by a tangible amount? Make unemployment 0% and pull more workers in from those who dropped out of looking for work (some 60 million).

 

So protectionism simply does not work for China? How the hell else has that country risen so far so fast?

These 'blinders-on' "comprehensive analysis's" seemingly always fail to look at the broader picture, and commonly invoke singular examples especially suited to support a POV (the steel industry- one whose health began to be chipped away at by China (chiefly) DECADES before 2002. 'Didn't save the industry' = too little too late). 

 

China’s protectionism is not the only reason why China has been successful of the trade front. Having the largest labor force in the world is a much bigger factor. Protectionism has proven to be a failure in this country is all I know and the 1930s prove that. China manages to get away with the policy because of many other factors. Remove even half of that labor force and it’s protectionism practices would simply self destruct, just like ours did in the 30s. There are other factors to this but the labor force size was the first to come to my mind. 

One positive thing we should take from China is reinvesting in ourselves, like fixing and upgrading our infrastructure. I fear, however, that infrastructure week has passed us by for now. 

[A Horse With No Name]

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

It is about time we have someone in there that actually sees this and has the gumption to do something.  We've been the world's piggy bank for WAY too long.

I actually agree with this sentiment entirely. 

22 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

China’s protectionism is not the only reason why China has been successful of the trade front. Having the largest labor force in the world is a much bigger factor. Protectionism has proven to be a failure in this country is all I know and the 1930s prove that. China manages to get away with the policy because of many other factors. Remove even half of that labor force and it’s protectionism practices would simply self destruct, just like ours did in the 30s. There are other factors to this but the labor force size was the first to come to my mind. 

One positive thing we should take from China is reinvesting in ourselves, like fixing and upgrading our infrastructure. I fear, however, that infrastructure week has passed us by for now. 

China is also not spending crap tons of money on war, like we have in Iraq and Afghanistan, and soon to be Iran. 

[surreal1272]

13 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I actually agree with this sentiment entirely. 

China is also not spending crap tons of money on war, like we have in Iraq and Afghanistan, and soon to be Iran. 

Kind of my point. Military spending is over half our yearly budget while our roads, bridges, transportation, schools, and healthcare needs go to pot. Sadly I don’t see it changing anytime soon. Too many big players in the war business.

 

Oh and while we do need to address the piggy bank situation, we should also address so much of our money being in our peoples piggy banks (like China and Japan, two of our biggest debt holders). It certainly goes both ways.

 

@ocnblu-Debate the facts you seem in such a rush to down vote. It’s not that hard really. Or maybe it’s because you can’t really debate the facts. Who knows because you’ve never said. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by surreal1272