Industry News: Trump's Tariff Threat Turned Out To Be A Farce

[Drew Dowdell]

The tariffs that Trump had threatened to impose on Mexico starting June 10th will not be going on to effect.  Trump tweeted out that Mexico had made concessions to deploy their newly formed Nation Guard to their own southern border and that it only took two days for Mexico to bend to Trump's demands.   This is false.

The truth, according to a report in the New York Times is that Mexico had already agreed to do that back in March 2019 during secret talks between the (at the time) Director of Homeland Security Kirstjen Nielsen and the Mexican Secretary of Interior Olga Sanchez. Further, Trump claimed a victory via his tariff efforts saying that he had reached an agreement that Mexico would hold more asylum-seekers on the Mexican side of the border while the U.S. processes their cases.  The timing of this is also false.  The agreement was already reached at the same meeting in March.   Where Trump failed was in getting Mexico to accept a "Safe Third Country" treaty that would have given the U.S. the ability to reject asylum seekers if they had not first sought asylum in Mexico. 

In opposition to the tariffs was many Senators from Trump's own party, including the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell who said, "There is not much support in my conference for tariffs, that's for sure". Many in the GOP were whispering that the Senate was going to pass a resolution disapproving of the tariffs, causing embarrassment for Trump and making him look weak.  Most likely that whispering got to Trump himself and so then he laid claim to the previously agreed "concessions" from Mexico in order to save face and drop the tariff while claiming victory. 

Many business leaders too were calling for relief from the tariffs, the auto industry would have been hit especially hard with a significant number of components passing over the border multiple times.  

Below is a list of vehicles that are currently assembled in Mexico for U.S. consumption:

Audi Q5
BMW 3-series
Chevrolet Blazer
Chevrolet Cruze
Chevrolet Equinox
Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Crew Cab
Chevrolet Trax
Dodge Journey
Fiat 500
Ford Fusion
Ford Transit Connect
GMC Sierra 1500 Crew Cab
GMC Terrain (certain models)
Honda Fit
Honda HR-V
Hyundai Accent
Infiniti QX50
Jeep Compass
Kia Forte
Kia Rio
Lincoln MKZ
Mazda 3
Mercedes-Benz A-class
Nissan Frontier (certain models)
Nissan Kicks
Nissan Sentra
Nissan Versa
Nissan Versa Note
Nissan NV200 Cargo
Ram 1500 Regular Cab
Ram 2500/3500/4500/5500
Ram ProMaster
Toyota Tacoma
Toyota Yaris
Volkswagen Beetle
Volkswagen Golf
Volkswagen Golf SportWagen
Volkswagen Jetta
Volkswagen Tiguan

View full article

[smk4565]

Shocker. 

[G. David Felt]

What ? Trump did his own FAKE News? Shocker 

This goes along with the statement that Mexico also said was FALSE, Trump's claim that Mexico was going to buy immediately a ton of US produce. Which would drive an increase in truck sales to move it. Yet again not happening.

At least for now, this Tariff thing is over with Mexico and we can move on with our focus on work and life. Truckin since it sounds better than SUVin, lol  

[Drew Dowdell]

  On 6/10/2019 at 5:06 PM, dfelt said:

What ? Trump did his own FAKE News? Shocker 

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I know really?  Trump faking some news?  It had me like...

Edited June 10, 2019 by Drew Dowdell
fixed the gif.

[A Horse With No Name]

Everything from this adminsitration is currently a farce of sorts...

[G. David Felt]

  On 6/10/2019 at 6:06 PM, A Horse With No Name said:

Everything from this administration is currently a farce of sorts...

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And yet so many are expecting him to be re-elected due to the economy.

[riviera74]

  On 6/10/2019 at 6:14 PM, dfelt said:

And yet so many are expecting him to be re-elected due to the economy.

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I know.  He keeps pulling these stunts and people keep falling for them (especially the media).  His re-election is very likely at this point.

[Drew Dowdell]

  On 6/10/2019 at 6:34 PM, riviera74 said:

I know.  He keeps pulling these stunts and people keep falling for them (especially the media).  His re-election is very likely at this point.

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They have CNBC on here at work and they keep talking about how great of a negotiator Trump was and how we avoided the tariffs.  Easy to "avoid" tariffs when the solution to them was already agreed to 3 months ago. 

[ocnblu]

LOL fantastic.  You guys can let go of that string of pearls now.

[Potluck]

Macabre.

[surreal1272]

  On 6/10/2019 at 10:49 PM, ocnblu said:

LOL fantastic.  You guys can let go of that string of pearls now.

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And you can let go of the blindness. There were reports months ago regarding Mexico beefing up support at the southern border and were keeping more folks back. Detentions were up months ago as well. Don’t get sour at everyone else just because you were fooled by the man behind the curtain. Remember. The truth isn’t the truth. From your favorite source of news. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/world/mexico-says-migrant-detentions-up-79-in-april.amp

Edited June 10, 2019 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

Once again, we have the arsonist wanting credit for putting out the fire that he started. 

[Robert Hall]

  On 6/10/2019 at 11:34 PM, surreal1272 said:

Once again, we have the arsonist wanting credit for putting out the fire that he started. 

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He'll probably demand a Nobel prize for it.

[oldshurst442]

  On 6/10/2019 at 11:48 PM, Robert Hall said:

He'll probably demand a Nobel prize for it.

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I wouldnt think he would want a silly little prize like that. Its beneath him...a NOBEL Peace Prize...

He would prefer they  change the name of it to the "Trump" prize...

[surreal1272]

  On 6/10/2019 at 11:57 PM, oldshurst442 said:

I wouldnt think he would want a silly little prize like that. Its beneath him...a NOBEL Peace Prize...

He would prefer they  change the name of it to the "Trump" prize...

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Right after he gets his face added to Mt. Trumpmore. 

[oldshurst442]

  On 6/10/2019 at 10:49 PM, ocnblu said:

LOL fantastic.  You guys can let go of that string of pearls now.

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What?  What about pearls? 

OK...I think I see where you are coming from. Yeah...I agree...I TOTALLY can see that Trump and pearl necklaces go hand in hand....

Something about Jr. makes me think that he too, enjoys a pearl necklace from time to time.  

BTW. It was a lovely O'Day today in Montreal. Nice and sunny, not Stormy at all...

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by oldshurst442

[ocnblu]

  On 6/10/2019 at 11:48 PM, Robert Hall said:

He'll probably demand a Nobel prize for it.

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Not so great any more after Obama's "win".

[oldshurst442]

  On 6/11/2019 at 12:23 AM, ocnblu said:

Not so great any more after Obama's "win".

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Maybe you could have chosen another past victor other than Obama...

Quite honestly, most of these awards are just for the elite to give kudos to themselves...but you targeting Obama, shows how divisive you wanna be with your country and countrymen...

YOU would be part of the problem...

If you and others like yourself will NOT change...

Washington DC will eventually burn and Trump's future successor dont matter if Blue or Red, will be playing the fiddle...

 

[surreal1272]

  On 6/11/2019 at 12:23 AM, ocnblu said:

Not so great any more after Obama's "win".

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Must be why Trump was trying to nominate himself for it in regard to his “great” work with N. Korea. Would it be great then? Talk about clutching some pearls. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-trump/trump-makes-his-case-for-nobel-peace-prize-complains-hell-never-get-it-idUSKCN1Q42FJ

[ocnblu]

  On 6/11/2019 at 12:47 AM, oldshurst442 said:

Quite honestly, most of these awards are just for the elite to give kudos to themselves

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I am sure there are others who did not "deserve" it.  Obama is the one who came to mind at that juncture.  Cheapens it for some important hysterical historical figures who've won it in the more distant past.

[surreal1272]

  On 6/11/2019 at 12:55 AM, ocnblu said:

I am sure there are others who did not "deserve" it.  Obama is the one who came to mind at that juncture.  Cheapens it for some important hysterical historical figures who've won it in the more distant past.

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Of course he’s the one that came to your mind. There were others but only Obama was worth mentioning right?

 

And you have the hypocrisy to mock folks who go after Trump?

[oldshurst442]

  On 6/11/2019 at 12:55 AM, ocnblu said:

I am sure there are others who did not "deserve" it.  Obama is the one who came to mind at that juncture.  Cheapens it for some important hysterical historical figures who've won it in the more distant past.

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Bahhhh...

Im sure there are some who deserve world wide accolades...I dont feel like discussing who and who is not deserving...

But...Obama hasnt been in office for...3 years...

I think its time for you to put that to rest big boy! 

I repeat:

  On 6/11/2019 at 12:47 AM, oldshurst442 said:

but you targeting Obama, shows how divisive you wanna be with your country and countrymen...

YOU would be part of the problem...

If you and others like yourself will NOT change...

Washington DC will eventually burn and Trump's future successor dont matter if Blue or Red, will be playing the fiddle...

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[surreal1272]

Offer something of substance @ocnblu because while you “laugh” at the post of others, those others are clearly laughing at you and those obvious partisan blinders. Maybe getting off your knees and wiping your mouth off would be better than swallowing every ounce of Trumps lies and nonsense. Not holding my breath but one can always hope that you actually want to discuss matters of importance instead of trolling the discussion nonstop and serving up snide and unrelated comments with the goal of basically insulting anyone who dares to point out the endless steam of bull$h! coming out of Trumps mouth.

 

You’d think his supporters would get tired of the snowballing quite honestly. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by surreal1272

[ocnblu]

  On 6/11/2019 at 1:02 AM, surreal1272 said:

getting off your knees and wiping your mouth off

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  On 6/11/2019 at 1:02 AM, surreal1272 said:

basically insulting anyone

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Something of substance?  Not that I adhere to any extreme wing of anything, but...

“Alt-Right”-Another term for “Always wrong” or “Alt-flake”. The word I prefer is “lunatic” and lunatics need not apply.

[A Horse With No Name]

  On 6/11/2019 at 12:23 AM, ocnblu said:

Not so great any more after Obama's "win".

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At the risk of getting banned or worse, both Obama and Trump should be looked at as war criminals. Zero respect for the office of the president as a post world war two institution. Absolutely zero.

I feel the same way about Kennedy, Truman, Reagan, Clinton, Both Bushes.

Feel the same way about Joe Biden.

Any hope for decency or leadership out of the white house is a fools errand IMHO.

Washington is pretty much the absolute bottom of the moral Universe. 

  On 6/11/2019 at 12:55 AM, ocnblu said:

I am sure there are others who did not "deserve" it.  Obama is the one who came to mind at that juncture.  Cheapens it for some important hysterical historical figures who've won it in the more distant past.

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I absolutely agree that he did not deserve it. He belongs in prison for a number of things....just like Trump.

  On 6/11/2019 at 12:00 AM, surreal1272 said:

Right after he gets his face added to Mt. Trumpmore. 

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We should dynamite mount Rushmore, it is a moral and visual desecration to a sacred Indian mountain.  Making it in the first place was wrong, keeping it there is wrong also. Dynamite for the win. The sooner the better.

[A Horse With No Name]

  On 6/10/2019 at 11:57 PM, oldshurst442 said:

I wouldnt think he would want a silly little prize like that. Its beneath him...a NOBEL Peace Prize...

He would prefer they  change the name of it to the "Trump" prize...

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Why a Mexican built German GTI would replace my Mexican built German Beetle Type R when it comes time to trade cars. Mexico and Germany are run by adults, the United States, not so much.

  On 6/10/2019 at 6:14 PM, dfelt said:

And yet so many are expecting him to be re-elected due to the economy.

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We need to re open the politics section. the real drama in the world is so much more fun to post about than KIA's latest design nightmare or how some GM motor lacks torque...

  On 6/11/2019 at 12:23 AM, ocnblu said:

Not so great any more after Obama's "win".

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Bombing a doctors without borders hospital when we had the exact co ordinates of that hospital...was a pretty crappy move on the part of the Obama administration.

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/what-we-do/news-stories/news/qa-bombing-msfs-hospital-kunduz-afghanistan

 

[A Horse With No Name]

  On 6/10/2019 at 3:31 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Audi Q5
BMW 3-series
Chevrolet Blazer
Chevrolet Cruze
Chevrolet Equinox
Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Crew Cab
Chevrolet Trax
Dodge Journey
Fiat 500
Ford Fusion
Ford Transit Connect
GMC Sierra 1500 Crew Cab
GMC Terrain (certain models)
Honda Fit
Honda HR-V
Hyundai Accent
Infiniti QX50
Jeep Compass
Kia Forte
Kia Rio
Lincoln MKZ
Mazda 3
Mercedes-Benz A-class
Nissan Frontier (certain models)
Nissan Kicks
Nissan Sentra
Nissan Versa
Nissan Versa Note
Nissan NV200 Cargo
Ram 1500 Regular Cab
Ram 2500/3500/4500/5500
Ram ProMaster
Toyota Tacoma
Toyota Yaris
Volkswagen Beetle
Volkswagen Golf
Volkswagen Golf SportWagen
Volkswagen Jetta
Volkswagen Tiguan

 

View full article

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Kind of a pathetic list, Beetle is cancelled, Golf production is being cut way back, Yaris is a pathetic car that sells in small numbers, Versa and Versa note are penalty boxes extraordinaire,  A class is unimpressive, Accent is also a penalty box, Cruze and fusion were discontinued because GMa nd Ford couldn't figure out how to build them profitably, Fiat 500 is one of the most miserable vehicles built, and at the bottom of even this list....

And the QX 50 has to be one of the least attractive modern vehicles.

Blazer is way over priced for what it is...seriously.

Given the problems all of my friends seem to be experiencing with Rams...Build the few performance Golf models in Germany to sell in small numbers here....and pretty much crap can the entire list.

To end on a positive note...neat video with a cool old Ford truck....back to cars.

 

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by A Horse With No Name

[G. David Felt]

This is an interesting read that says protectionism is intensifying and the evidence is there that it will hurt America!

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/10/us/politics/trump-mexico-tariffs-china.html

Auto frames from Mexico entering America for final assembly.

[Drew Dowdell]

  On 6/11/2019 at 2:56 PM, A Horse With No Name said:

We need to re open the politics section. the real drama in the world is so much more fun to post about than KIA's latest design nightmare or how some GM motor lacks torque...

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Well there's one vote for reopening politics....

[G. David Felt]

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:19 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Well there's one vote for reopening politics....

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I will Second that Vote with a Clear set of rules about respectful posts, no profanity, keep it on point, Post links to articles that back up your post. 

I think you can have civil discussions on politics with a clear set of boundaries and if needed, then ban the select members who ignore the rules from that workgroup.

[surreal1272]

  On 6/11/2019 at 9:17 AM, ocnblu said:

 

Something of substance?  Not that I adhere to any extreme wing of anything, but...

“Alt-Right”-Another term for “Always wrong” or “Alt-flake”. The word I prefer is “lunatic” and lunatics need not apply.

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Which has not one thing to do with what I said in my post. What is in my signature is merely my thoughts on a particular subset of folks and is not about anyone here. Why you think that relates to what I said is beyond me. Now if you just happen to be part of that subset of folks, then so be it but my creation of it has squat to do with you. You think too highly of yourself if you actually think that. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by surreal1272

[A Horse With No Name]

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:22 PM, surreal1272 said:

Which has not one thing to do with what I said in my post. What is in my signature is merely my thoughts on a particular subset of folks and is not about anyone here. Why you think that relates to what I said is beyond me. 

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We need to discuss actual ideas and actual policies. If we re open politics. we could limit it to actual discussion of how political actions affect the auto industry. 

For instance, how many vendors in Mexico would have been affected had the tariffs actually gone into effect?

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:22 PM, surreal1272 said:

Which has not one thing to do with what I said in my post. What is in my signature is merely my thoughts on a particular subset of folks and is not about anyone here. Why you think that relates to what I said is beyond me. 

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Alt right is such a vague term...both of you need to be more specific on actual policy and desirability of actual policy outcomes IMHO.

[surreal1272]

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:24 PM, A Horse With No Name said:

We need to discuss actual ideas and actual policies. If we re open politics. we could limit it to actual discussion of how political actions affect the auto industry. 

For instance, how many vendors in Mexico would have been affected had the tariffs actually gone into effect?

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I’m all for it but some folks will just continue their pattern of confirmation bias and general mudslinging while offering no real substance to the subject(s) at hand. Then you have the extremists that really ruin everything. 

[A Horse With No Name]

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:27 PM, surreal1272 said:

I’m all for it but some folks will just continue their pattern of confirmation bias and general mudslinging while offering no real substance to the subject(s) at hand. Then you have the extremists that really ruin everything. 

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And that should not be a problem.  I have learned from a lot of people, and changed my minds on all sorts of issues. Someone that is only right ten percent of the time is still right ten percent of the time. Adult enough to think for myself....and also adult enough to evaluate ideas based on merit, not on rhetoric behind them.

[surreal1272]

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:24 PM, A Horse With No Name said:

We need to discuss actual ideas and actual policies. If we re open politics. we could limit it to actual discussion of how political actions affect the auto industry. 

For instance, how many vendors in Mexico would have been affected had the tariffs actually gone into effect?

Alt right is such a vague term...both of you need to be more specific on actual policy and desirability of actual policy outcomes IMHO.

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He brought up “alt-right” because it’s in my signature. It was unrelated to what I was talking about here. Alt-Right, in general though, is pure extremist fantasy land BS IMO but that’s a subject for another time at another place. 

[A Horse With No Name]

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:31 PM, surreal1272 said:

He brought up “alt-right” because it’s in my signature. It was unrelated to what I was talking about here. Alt-Right, in general though, is pure extremist fantasy land BS IMO but that’s a subject for another time at another place. 

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But I will listen to Blu if he posts actual arguments and backs them up with evidence. I could care less if people scream alt right or libtard or whatever. They just look stupid when they sling mud...

And yes alt right is in many ways vile..

[surreal1272]

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:31 PM, A Horse With No Name said:

And that should not be a problem.  I have learned from a lot of people, and changed my minds on all sorts of issues. Someone that is only right ten percent of the time is still right ten percent of the time. Adult enough to think for myself....and also adult enough to evaluate ideas based on merit, not on rhetoric behind them.

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True but again, I was speaking in general terms. I tend to tune out the extremist posts because it tends to be devoid of actual facts and isn’t based on reality (more like it supports a certain idealism mindset). I have family members that deal with life that way and I do not deal with life that way so we just don’t see eye to eye on political and social matters. If extends to the internet community as well. Too much “radicalized” thinking with no room for moderate compromise mindset for my taste. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by surreal1272

[A Horse With No Name]

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:36 PM, surreal1272 said:

True but again, I was speaking in general terms. I tend to tune out the extremist posts because it tends to be devoid of actual facts and is based on reality (more like it supports a certain idealism mindset). I have family members that deal with life that way and I do not deal with life that way so we just don’t see eye to eye on political and social matters. If extends to the internet community as well. Too much “radicalized” thinking with no room for moderate compromise mindset for my taste. 

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.....agreed....

 

[ccap41]

  On 6/11/2019 at 2:51 PM, A Horse With No Name said:

Washington is pretty much the absolute bottom of the moral Universe. 

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Here we go. This is about the most truthful thing I've read here. EVER. 

[Robert Hall]

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:37 PM, ccap41 said:

Here we go. This is about the most truthful thing I've read here. EVER. 

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Regardless of political party, Washington doesn't run on 'morals' but $$$$.   It's all about what companies/organizations own what politicians through lobbyists and donations. 

[G. David Felt]

Alt-Right or Alt-Left or Centrist, who cares if they are looking to make things better for the whole rather than the one!

Sadly we have leadership that I believe is too focused on the one and as I posted above on todays story about Trumps Protectionist approach to deal making, in the long term, this is going to HURT America!

He seems to have a to hell with the Constitution and the freedoms our soldiers have fought for here over his own image and personal agenda that helps the less than 1% like the Koch brothers.

These two stories seem to support that feeling of protect the 1% and to heck with the rest.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/billionaire-koch-brothers-wont-support-trump-in-2020-snubbing-his-bid-for-second-time

https://www.gq.com/story/koch-brothers-eye-the-democrats

There is a very libertarian focus from them now on their switch from Tea party / GOP to support the Democrats. 

[ccap41]

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:22 PM, dfelt said:

I think you can have civil discussions on politics with a clear set of boundaries and if needed, then ban the select members who ignore the rules from that workgroup.

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aaaaaand there's 0 people here. 

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:24 PM, A Horse With No Name said:

Alt right is such a vague term...both of you need to be more specific on actual policy and desirability of actual policy outcomes IMHO.

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+1 

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:39 PM, Robert Hall said:

Regardless of political party, Washington doesn't run on 'morals' but $$$$.   It's all about what companies/organizations own what politicians through lobbyists and donations. 

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Yep. The idea that a politician can be owned is straight fckd to begin with. 

[A Horse With No Name]

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:37 PM, ccap41 said:

Here we go. This is about the most truthful thing I've read here. EVER. 

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Either killing children is morally wrong or it isn't. Article in my news feed made me want to throw up this morning...two teenage girls were adopting pets, and then posting selfies of them torturing the pets to death, shooting the pets, mutilating them.  We look at these girls as unfit for decent society.

But when the Obama administration gives weapons and aid to rebels in Syria that behead a  12 year old boy as an apostate...or the Bush, Obama, and Trump administrations kill civilians (including children en masse) with drones....(Obama more than Bush, Trump more than Obama....) or we give a hotbed of Islamic radicalism 3 billion dollars in aid a year (Pakistan) or the apartheid country of Israel 4 billion in aid a year (killing journalists, aid workers, and children) or give the radical Saudis nuclear weapons technology...or give the radical government in Egypt Billions in aid...

Methinks we should worry a lot more about what Washington does to actual people...it's much more morally wrong than what these girls did.

The list is really, really long.

Testing nuclear weapons with soldiers/Sailors on nearby ships like our government did after world war two...not giving aid and medical care (proper aid and medical care, and counseling) to our veterans would be another. How many veterans commit suicide every day....pretty high number...

Back to looking at GTO pics.

Washington really sucks.

Benghazi was bad...but taking out Gaddafi  was worse. ISIS was not in Libya before we did that. We have zero remorse for the pain we inflict on others.

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:40 PM, ccap41 said:

aaaaaand there's 0 people here. 

 

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Its kind of like the 2020 election...the fun will be watching half the country loose its crap on Facebook, regardless of outcome.

Edited June 11, 2019 by A Horse With No Name

[ykX]

  On 6/11/2019 at 3:45 PM, A Horse With No Name said:

apartheid country of Israel 4 billion in aid a year (killing journalists, aid workers, and children)

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While I agree with your statement above in general, calling Israel apartheid country is simply wrong and incorrect use of the word.  Blaming them for death of fake journalists or aid workers is not truthful either.  Also, it was proven time and time again that Hamas doctored and faked death of the children during last few conflicts.

[A Horse With No Name]

  On 6/11/2019 at 4:19 PM, ykX said:

While I agree with your statement above in general, calling Israel apartheid country is simply wrong and incorrect use of the word.  Blaming them for death of fake journalists or aid workers is not truthful either.  Also, it was proven time and time again that Hamas doctored and faked death of the children during last few conflicts.

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I don't feel a lot of sympathy for either side. Will happily debate you on this if the politics section gets re opened.

Hamas is also killing children without a whole lot of remorse....go back to my original comment above about how killing children is immoral.  It is immoral to have someone step onto a  bus with bombs strapped to their chest and ball bearings laced with rat poison (to kill the maximum number of people possible.) Hamas had no problem with this....or with other atrocities.

Hamas is beneath contempt.  I totally denounce Hamas. Hezbollah is not real high on my list of favorites either, nor is Boko Haram. 

I would be in favor of pulling both humanitarian aid to the Palestinians (they voluntarily voted to have Hamas represent them) and aid to the Israelis.

For what it is worth...I do not believe in foreign aid to anybody other than brief humanitarian aid in a  time of crisis...food, blankets, medical supplies and the like. I would feel the same way about  Canada as I do about Israel...or Pakistan....and the same way about Finland for that matter.

The atrocities of Israel and Hamas are both well documented. Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky are both Jewish and fairly rational on this matter....IIRC Finkelstein's parents were both killed in the Holocaust...they might be worth a good read.

Edited June 11, 2019 by A Horse With No Name

[ykX]

  On 6/11/2019 at 4:40 PM, A Horse With No Name said:

The atrocities of Israel and Hamas are both well documented. Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky are both Jewish and fairly rational on this matter....IIRC Finkelstein's parents were both killed in the Holocaust...they might be worth a good read.

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I know about them and being jewish has nothing to do with being objective or truthful on Israel or jews in general.  

These images are everything you need to know how Hamas conducts its conflict and than Israel get blamed for the death of innocents by the West.

I personally might not be impartial on the subject but I see how so many things gets twisted by the world media that just playes into the extremists hands.  Not just with Hamas or Hezbollah.

In any case, I don't want to derail the thread, I just can't stay silent on the subject.

 

[G. David Felt]

This is an outstanding site covering the history of Tariffs and Trade going back to 1827. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/history-u-s-trade-wars/ 

 

[ccap41]

There is no scale or units on the left side of the graph. What do those numbers even mean? 

[Robert Hall]

  On 6/11/2019 at 5:47 PM, ccap41 said:

There is no scale or units on the left side of the graph. What do those numbers even mean? 

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I think 100 is the baseline of 1827.   So 'VIII Trumps Tarriffs' is roughly 30% of the 1827 level, 'Smoot-Hawley' just under 50%, etc.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Robert Hall

[A Horse With No Name]

  On 6/11/2019 at 5:29 PM, ykX said:

I know about them and being jewish has nothing to do with being objective or truthful on Israel or jews in general.  

These images are everything you need to know how Hamas conducts its conflict and than Israel get blamed for the death of innocents by the West.

I personally might not be impartial on the subject but I see how so many things gets twisted by the world media that just playes into the extremists hands.  Not just with Hamas or Hezbollah.

In any case, I don't want to derail the thread, I just can't stay silent on the subject.

 

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Ohhh...no, I don't want to see you stay quiet on  the subject...like I said...Hamas is a terrorist organization. No debate from me on that.

At any rate...initiating conflict with a nuclear power when all you have are grenade launchers and small rockets is astonishingly stupid on the part of Hamas.

Edited June 11, 2019 by A Horse With No Name