GM News: GM Teaming with Bechtel To Deploy Widespread Fast-Charging Station Network

[Drew Dowdell]

General Motors and Bechtel are teaming up to form a new company to deploy a widespread fast-charging network. Neither company plans to put any money into the project, outside investors are being solicited.  The network will help General Motors, which plans to introduce 20 new EVs by 2023.  It will also help other manufacturers of EVs. 

General Motors will provide data to help decide where to locate the EV charging stations and Bechtel will use its own experts for the engineering and building of the stations. Much of the data will come from GM's OnStar system to help learn where people tend to park.  Data from both electric and gasoline powered vehicles will be used.

Additional fast-charging infrastructure is seen as a requirement to increasing electric vehicle sales. According to a survey by AAA, one of the biggest concerns Americans have about EVs is having enough locations to charge them.  

The network built by Bechtel and GM will not be limited to interstate highways where most fast charging stations have been located so far.  The company will also locate chargers in urban areas targeting apartments and condos where drivers cannot have a home charger of their own. 

The new venture joins major initiatives from Electrify America, a Volkswagen funded EV station program, and Tesla with Supercharging, to build out a nationwide network of charging stations. 

View full article

[Paolino]

So this is a slight concern of my friend with his Tesla...

[Drew Dowdell]

10 minutes ago, Paolino said:

So this is a slight concern of my friend with his Tesla...

Why?

[A Horse With No Name]

I don't think GM will sell enough electrics for this to matter.

 

[G. David Felt]

Interesting that both GM and Bechtel want to build out this but not invest their own cash. Very weird.

[A Horse With No Name]

59 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Interesting that both GM and Bechtel want to build out this but not invest their own cash. Very weird.

Because they know it is a loosing proposition financially.

[G. David Felt]

15 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Because they know it is a loosing proposition financially.

It is a Chicken or the Egg situation. Charging is everywhere, but fast charging requires investment and if GM truly wants their Electric Auto's to take off and sell, then you have to invest in the infrastructure. ICE Auto's where this way in the late 1800's / early 1900's. Those that invest will win I believe.

Tesla wins in this regards as they have been building their charging setup for the customers to use. Tesla's biggest problem is Musk and his quick lose of interest once something becomes mainstream versus the shiny new toy and distractions with tunneling, Mars, Narcissistic Look At Me! syndrome.

[riviera74]

26 minutes ago, dfelt said:

It is a Chicken or the Egg situation. Charging is everywhere, but fast charging requires investment and if GM truly wants their Electric Auto's to take off and sell, then you have to invest in the infrastructure. ICE Auto's where this way in the late 1800's / early 1900's. Those that invest will win I believe.

Tesla wins in this regards as they have been building their charging setup for the customers to use. Tesla's biggest problem is Musk and his quick lose of interest once something becomes mainstream versus the shiny new toy and distractions with tunneling, Mars, Narcissistic Look At Me! syndrome.

Elon Musk would be wise to give all executive control of Tesla to a real car guy.  Elon can then focus on other things instead.

[Drew Dowdell]

3 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I don't think GM will sell enough electrics for this to matter.

 

I think GM is making sure the egg is there before the chicken. 

[ocnblu]

Failure.

[oldshurst442]

Tesla's supercharging network is an asset that Tesla possesses that appears to be overlooked.   Tesla's network is an advantage that Tesla has over all other manufacturer's  EV sales.  That network system is a big part of Tesla's prestige. When VW and now GM  matches Tesla's charging network in term of size and accessibility,  that might  just eat in to Tesla's appeal just a tad and maybe reverse Tesla's God-like aura they have....

Its in GM's best interest to build up a and beef up the charging network system if they want to succeed in selling EVs to the masses. 

 

[surreal1272]

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Failure.

How is setting up a nationwide infrastructure for the future (as well as coinciding with their EV plans between now and 2023) a “failure”? Somehow I’m guessing 100+ years ago, you would have branded the mass expansion of fossil fuel stations across the country as a “failure” as well. 

[ocnblu]

The failure in this case is still charging time.  It is in portability.  It is in much higher vehicle purchase prices.  It is in profitability.  It is in customer resistance to all of this.  I can see why they are calling for investors, it is to shield themselves from incredible losses when it crashes.

[G. David Felt]

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

The failure in this case is still charging time.  It is in portability.  It is in much higher vehicle purchase prices.  It is in profitability.  It is in customer resistance to all of this.  I can see why they are calling for investors, it is to shield themselves from incredible losses when it crashes.

It is in YOUR FAILURE to accept change of Habits. You so want static life that you FAIL to see progress. 

The early 1900's was not Electrics time due to the lack of proper battery storage. We have that now and constant improvements, so changing the habit to plug in at night so you start each day off full on a 300 mile battery pack is just a change of habit without the petro smell, toxic absorption into the hands, under ground storage, distribution, etc.

While I also see their approach to shield themselves from the cost and always potential immediate loss of money as a public trading company where you have to bow to the shareholders, this is smart business sense.

As the XFC charging infrastructure grows and as we move away from the Li Ion batteries to Solid State such as Toshiba is building and is going into Nissan and Mitsubishi auto's, we will see this change over much faster than you or others will expect. 

Most woman and a large amount of men would love to not have to go to the gas station or deal with the maintenance of the current Auto's that go on sale. This is why the 100,000 mile tune up and service became the new norm.

Electrics with their minimal service will change this again for humans that do not want to be bothered with service of the ICE variety.

[Robert Hall]

Reality is complex. 

[A Horse With No Name]

13 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Reality is complex. 

Very few people can process this.

[oldshurst442]

Reality is indeed complex. 

There are many facets to reality. 

Different types of people, in different parts of the world have a different type of reality. 

I understand this and accept it too.  I have a problem ONLY when one individual thinks that there is only one reality and THAT reality is the only reality we should adapt to. 

And I know that this is a two-way street as THAT person WILL think EXACTLY like I AM THINKING, that I am trying to push MY reality unto HIS...

Back to EV infrastructure:

5 hours ago, ocnblu said:

The failure in this case is still charging time.

Nope...not a thing.  False claim.  Not reality. ESPECIALLY going forward.  Technology IS moving forward with this so charging times WILL go down. But even as is, NOT. A. PROBLEM. For daily driving needs.

For long distance traveling.  Again. Its ONLY a problem when you resist change. People that have bought EVs, dont see that as a problem. 

And you know what? I gassed up yesterday.  JUST before going to my daughter's softball practice. I was running on fumes. I wanted to full up to the brim. On a usual fill up from completely empty to fully full, it does take a good 5-6 minutes just at the pump...well, the pump yesterday was slow as phoque for whatever reason, and it took LITERALLY 12 minutes JUST for me to put gas IN the car. 

THAT is ALMOST EV charging times right there.  And I had to stand there like an idiot with my hand on the pistol. EV chargers...you just place it there and leave it there...  Oh...I had the wife's Fusion, and the Ford has no gas cap for me to do the little gas cap trick to stick it under the handle so I could smoke a cigarette while the car fills up...(yes...Ive seen this before in the 1980s when smoking was rampant and safety was of little concern regarding fire hazard around gas stations...) 

5 hours ago, ocnblu said:

It is in portability.

???

Portability???

Electrons move very easily. Even the suns rays could be transformed into fuel...actually, we as humans get fuel with the sun's rays...

Maybe you mean charger stations?  THIS is why GM is investing in a charger network system.

Tesla keeps on growing theirs. THIS is also the reason why they continue to bleed money. Nobody acknowledges this fact, but they keep poor billions in expanding their charging network system. Its an asset that is very very valuable...

Again...false reality on your part.

6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

It is in much higher vehicle purchase prices

That is a problem with ICE as well. Prices keep going up in price for those. EVs as compared to ICE is sure higher for EVs. 

Yeah...and? 

Reality is that housing is expensive.  

HEALTY FOOD CHOICES are expensive.  

Good quality clothes that last more than two wash loads are expensive.

GASOLINE is expensive. Maybe in YOUR reality it aint. In mine it is. And as is for the most of the world. Electricity though, in my reality is cheap cheap cheap and clean clean clean clean so for me, in the next generation of EVs, the higher cost of EVs over ICE will be offset by a huuuuuge margin with maintenance and gasoline purchases...especially when MY government is gonna help out with electric vehicles and electricity as fuel for housing (heating and cooling) and all that. Not just for private usage, but for public service buildings and vehicles such as metros, buses, garbage trucks, postal vehicles etc...

All that will fuel our economy as hydro-electric power is almost our only source for electricity (we do have wind mills to assist) and there has been no coal powered stations for the last 50-75-80 years, and our only nuclear plant was decommissioned and dismantled 3-4-5 years ago.) 

So...different reality for you and I...

6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

It is in profitability.

EVs ARE profitable...

Tesla is not...NOT because EVs are not profitable...Tesla has other issues...

For GM...well, as good as the Volt and Bolt have been technologically,  GM's half assed attempts to sell EVs and to manufacturer them...THEIR resistance to EVs in the past have kept EVs non-profitable for them.

But now...they are going full tilt EV...and they think that they could make a buck or two with EVs...

Again...reality has MANY facets...it depends what reality you choose to believe in...

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

It is in customer resistance to all of this

Only with folk much like yourself. Resistant to change and happy to be ignorant about the whole thing. 

Nobody, other than Tesla and Toyota, has created the right packaged EV just yet. 

Nobody, other than Tesla has created a visually beautiful EVs yet either. The Prius family of EVs are ugly as phoque. The Bolt is too small and too phoquen ugly. 

Tesla cars, while not Harley Earl/Bill Mitchel/Virgil Exner/Pininfarina/Henrik Fisker (irony that I mention Fisker as he had a slight influence on the Model S and the Model S was a good looking car 6 years ago)  masterpieces, Tesla cars DO invoke passion with their car design language...

Tesla has sold half a million cars to date.  And still selling, although sales have dipped, so have other manufacturer's sales.

But 500 000 Tesla cars sold.  

500 000

THIS figure alone has made the rest of the industry to say...WTF???

Again...different reality you choose to believe in. You could tell me that EVs are nothing but barely 2% of all vehicle sales...which is one reality...but I choose to see 500 000 units sold...

And..as it seems, so does GM, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, VW and all others...

6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I can see why they are calling for investors, it is to shield themselves from incredible losses when it crashes.

Yes...

but IF it crashes...

Also...Tesla is bleeding billions because they are expanding their network...

VW has a war chest of billions. 

GM does not.

So...smart thinking for GM. But again, your perception of reality is different than mine.

Who is right?

I dunno...but GM and others are going full tilt with EVs.

Crash and burn?

You think GM will let that possible reality BECOME reality?  

 

Like in baseball or sports in general.

Numbers, statistics and analytics have taken over.  

The poor teams adopted this, to better compete with the rich teams. The rich teams laughed at this idea.

It worked.

The rich teams used this to vastly improve on their chances.

Poor teams still such, but not as much, but the rich teams still win....but numbers, statistics and analytics are part of reality in sports.

EVs...are gonna be part of our reality.  

Too much money from governments, car companies are invested in this going forward. It will NOT fail as THIS is the reality governments want, and car manufacturers are accepting, complying and ultimately ONLY going to offer EVs for purchase. 

Phasing out ICE slowly, but surely.

Like digital and high definition TV.

Like how oil from whale blubber lead to oil and electricity to fuel our appliance and heating needs. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[riviera74]

^^^^ Amen to all that.  It is too bad that there are those who fear and resist technological change as much as they do (for their own reasons).

[surreal1272]

7 hours ago, ocnblu said:

The failure in this case is still charging time.  It is in portability.  It is in much higher vehicle purchase prices.  It is in profitability.  It is in customer resistance to all of this.  I can see why they are calling for investors, it is to shield themselves from incredible losses when it crashes.

Charging times are going down every year. Supper chargers are headed towards fifteen minutes full charges and less. You need to keep up with the changes before making the same old arguments against it. 

 

And prices? Seriously? Maybe you haven’t noticed, but ICE cars aren’t exactly cheap  at least EVs give cheaper fueling options and simple economics dictate that they will be at least financially on par with the old tech ICE auto. It’s really not that hard figure when you’re not fighting it every chance you get.

 

And calling for investors is standard fair in any business. You think the ICE automotive started and succeeded without investors? 

 

We we will just sidestep the fact that at least with an EV, I can “fuel” it at home while I sleep and never have to stop in another dirty ass gas station if I do choose (and if you knew anything about the average gas station in Phoenix, AZ, you would know exactly what I’m talking about). 

Edited May 29, 2019 by surreal1272

[Robert Hall]

54 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

^^^^ Amen to all that.  It is too bad that there are those who fear and resist technological change as much as they do (for their own reasons).

Even today there are people that resist most modern technology including ICE---the Amish.  They live in the past and are ignored.   Other luddites can join them. 

[A Horse With No Name]

24 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Even today there are people that resist most modern technology including ICE---the Amish.  They live in the past and are ignored.   Other luddites can join them. 

And then there is the moral cost of ICE. I am unwilling to put American service men and women in Harms way for cheap oil.

[ykX]

8 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

And then there is the moral cost of ICE. I am unwilling to put American service men and women in Harms way for cheap oil.

To be fair US gets only about 13% of its oil in the Middle East.  About 40% is local production and the rest is between Canada, Latin America and Africa

https://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised

[surreal1272]

1 minute ago, ykX said:

To be fair US gets only about 13% of its oil in the Middle East.  About 40% is local production and the rest is between Canada, Latin America and Africa

https://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised

Yet that percentage has been enough for us to go to war over it multiple times. It needs to stop. 

[ykX]

2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Yet that percentage has been enough for us to go to war over it multiple times. It needs to stop. 

Politics not always make economical sense.  I believe I have read that US can do completely without oil from Middle East.

In any case, as I said before, I am all for EVs.  With better infrastructure more people will consider EV.

[surreal1272]

8 minutes ago, ykX said:

Politics not always make economical sense.  I believe I have read that US can do completely without oil from Middle East.

In any case, as I said before, I am all for EVs.  With better infrastructure more people will consider EV.

We can but there are too many palms that need greasing by that the oil industry to make that happen. Oil is politics sadly. 

 

And I am with you on the EV front. It’s coming whether the dinosaurs want to accept it or not. 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ykX said:

To be fair US gets only about 13% of its oil in the Middle East.  About 40% is local production and the rest is between Canada, Latin America and Africa

https://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised

That is a 2012 data very old/out of date.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

Here is the current info from the actual GOV:

[Paolino]

On 5/28/2019 at 12:18 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Why?

I should have phrased it differently... in the past on a long trip he almost ran out of charge... so it was a concern of his as he was having trouble finding a charging station.

[G. David Felt]

 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, Paolino said:

I should have phrased it differently... in the past on a long trip he almost ran out of charge... so it was a concern of his as he was having trouble finding a charging station.

Ah, well more fast chargers will be a good thing.... but I don't know that Tesla is compatible with other brand fast chargers without a special adapter. 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, Paolino said:

I should have phrased it differently... in the past on a long trip he almost ran out of charge... so it was a concern of his as he was having trouble finding a charging station.

 

15 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Ah, well more fast chargers will be a good thing.... but I don't know that Tesla is compatible with other brand fast chargers without a special adapter. 

Yup Tesla sells that adapter. Makes a wonderful gift for the Tesla owner on the go!

https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/sae-j1772-charging-adapter.html

 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

 

Yup Tesla sells that adapter. Makes a wonderful gift for the Tesla owner on the go!

https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/sae-j1772-charging-adapter.html

 

240V max... not going to be Supercharging or even Fast Charging speeds. 

[G. David Felt]

8 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

240V max... not going to be Supercharging or even Fast Charging speeds. 

True, but at least it would allow you to use other chargers. I figure give it time and like Tesla is doing in China, they will eventually either drop their proprietary plug or add the CCS one to the auto's.

[ocnblu]

This thread OMG  you guys KILL me!

[surreal1272]

35 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

This thread OMG  you guys KILL me!

Well your head was already in the sand regarding actual facts so your body might as well join the party. 

[ocnblu]

58 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

actual facts

 

[surreal1272]

51 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

 

Your blank reply (or sad attempt at humor) pretty much says it all. 

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

 

And you wonder why you catch so much grief for trolling EV articles. 

[oldshurst442]

EVs are coming...

EVs ARE the future whether we want to accept that reality or not.

[balthazar]

15 hours ago, dfelt said:

We have that now and constant improvements, so changing the habit to plug in at night so you start each day off full on a 300 mile battery pack is just a change of habit...

Observation : if most EV owner's simply charge at home overnight, Teslas give a minimum of -what- 250 miles range AND the average driver drives only 30 miles per day, what are all the Teslas I see at Superchargers at 10AM or 3PM?? They can't all be interstate travelers; are 250-300 miles range Tesla owners still feeling range anxiety??

[oldshurst442]

26 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Observation : if most EV owner's simply charge at home overnight, Teslas give a minimum of -what- 250 miles range AND the average driver drives only 30 miles per day, what are all the Teslas I see at Superchargers at 10AM or 3PM?? They can't all be interstate travelers; are 250-300 miles range Tesla owners still feeling range anxiety??

Good question.

Ya gotta ask those guys. 

Because what you observe maybe correct. But seeing as the US has a population of 325 some odd million people and there are 275 million registered vehicles on US roads to which there are at least 200 000 Teslas, on 45 000 miles of interstate highways, Id say that there is a good chance that those Teslas you see on those Superchargers are indeed interstate travelers.

Im mean, the interstate highway system was created JUST for that reason, so Americans could travel the continental United States with ease...from one coast to the other. From North to South and every little town, city and state to be connected.

This is how the automobile got to be so infused with American culture.  Cruising hot city nights, but also family vacations trying to get to Wally world.

Its a long way down, the holiday road.

And when we are not going on family vacations, we are racing on them. 

 

 

Rolling down the highway, because...LIFE... is a highway.  (Canuck rock-n-roll rules! ?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ocnblu]

Above reply is a giant box of empty.  Where's the beef?  There ain't none.

[A Horse With No Name]

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Above reply is a giant box of empty.  Where's the beef?  There ain't none.

Most Ev lovers are Vegan..a.t least he is consistent.

[G. David Felt]

29 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Most Ev lovers are Vegan..a.t least he is consistent.

Not this EV lover, I know where the Beef is and the Taste of Organic is much better than laced with Toxic Diesel.  

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Not this EV lover, I know where the Beef is and the Taste of Organic is much better than laced with Toxic Diesel.  

I am sure OCN finds plenty of beef himself.

It's electrifying when it happens, he just won't admit it.

[surreal1272]

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

Observation : if most EV owner's simply charge at home overnight, Teslas give a minimum of -what- 250 miles range AND the average driver drives only 30 miles per day, what are all the Teslas I see at Superchargers at 10AM or 3PM?? They can't all be interstate travelers; are 250-300 miles range Tesla owners still feeling range anxiety??

Why do I know a lot of people who put gas in their car when they still have a half of a tank in it? Do they have gas range anxiety? The same folks you are seeing are probably the same folks who did that in their old gas powered cars. 

7 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Above reply is a giant box of empty.  Where's the beef?  There ain't none.

Nice of you to admit that you have provided no real substance to the discussion, as usual. Don’t worry though. Everyone here already knew your intent. 

 

The EVs are coming to get you. Better store up all your gasoline now lol. 

4 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Most Ev lovers are Vegan..a.t least he is consistent.

I would like to state that while I support EVs in general, I am and will always be a full blooded carnivore. 

[Robert Hall]

5 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Why do I know a lot of people who put gas in their car when they still have a half of a tank in it? Do they have gas range anxiety? The same folks you are seeing are probably the same folks who did that in their old gas powered cars. 

 

I do that when on road trips.  Driving from Phoenix to Cleveland I would fill up at half a tank...never knew how far the next gas station would be along I-40 in the fecal void of the Texas panhandle or Oklahoma.   Plus filling up at half a tank gets me outside walking, a good break at a predicable interval. 

[surreal1272]

25 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I do that when on road trips.  Driving from Phoenix to Cleveland I would fill up at half a tank...never knew how far the next gas station would be along I-40 in the fecal void of the Texas panhandle or Oklahoma.   Plus filling up at half a tank gets me outside walking, a good break at a predicable interval. 

I am dying laughing right now because I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I have done the I-40 drive five times (NC to Cali and back one time and Arizona to NC and back the other times) and yes, you definitely have to pick your spots in between Amarillo and OKC. Too bad cars can't run off of dead skunks and deer. Then you would have an endless supply of both in the panhandle! "yeah, let me get some of that venison 89 octane!"

Edited May 30, 2019 by surreal1272

[oldshurst442]

Id like to say that, I support EVs.

Im also a VEGAN myself. 

I just like meat to be served with my veggies.

Its a personal choice. 

About my fueling habits. 

My daily driven habits are as follows.  I fill up to the brim, and then go as low as possible before I fuel up again. But I have a gasoline station on the way to work and another that is almost right next to the restaurant and another that is very close to my house. And my daily commute is but a 6 mile trip going and another 6 mile trip coming back.

But, If I need to travel far, I make sure I have enough to get me to my destination, and then some so if Im stuck in traffic, or there are wild detours (you never know in Montreal) I dont run out of gas. 

So, more often than not, on long trips, my tank is full full...

Edited May 30, 2019 by oldshurst442

[Robert Hall]

24 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I am dying laughing right now because I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I have done the I-40 drive five times (NC to Cali and back one time and Arizona to NC and back the other times) and yes, you definitely have to pick your spots in between Amarillo and OKC. Too bad cars can't run off of dead skunks and deer. Then you would have an endless supply of both in the panhandle! "yeah, let me get some of that venison 89 octane!"

I’ve done I-40 in Az and Nm several times in past on Denver to Phoenix drives.  

 On the 2017 Phoenix to Cleveland dash,  I left Phoenix at 7pm on a Saturday and arrived at my house outside Cleveland over 50hrs later, about 2am Tuesday morning.  

Driving across Texas and Oklahoma I was watching for tornadoes since it was June and raining.  

I never want to do a drive like that again...but had to get the dogs from AZ to Ohio.  

Edited May 30, 2019 by Robert Hall

[surreal1272]

17 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I’ve done I-40 in Az and Nm several times in past on Denver to Phoenix drives.  

 On the 2017 Phoenix to Cleveland dash,  I left Phoenix at 7pm on a Saturday and arrived at my house outside Cleveland over 50hrs later, about 2am Tuesday morning.  

Driving across Texas and Oklahoma I was watching for tornadoes since it was June and raining.  

I never want to do a drive like that again...but had to get the dogs from AZ to Ohio.  

That is a doozy of a drive. When I moved from NC to Arizona in ‘07, it was me, some clothes, and my two cats in a ‘95 Eagle Talon with the front passenger seat removed for extra space. To that was an adventure would be a vast understatement. Man, I miss that little car lol.