GM News: GM Decides To Shrink Maven's Footprint

[William Maley]

Maven, General Motors' car-sharing service launched in 2016 will be ceasing operation in several cities in the U.S.

The news was first broken by the Wall Street Journal on Monday and has been confirmed by a GM spokeswoman. Eight out of the seventeen markets that the service operates including Boston and Chicago will be closed down within the next few months. According to the spokeswoman, the shutdown is due to GM wanting to "concentrate on markets in which we have the strongest current demand and growth potential." Those markets in question include Detroit, Los Angeles, and Toronto.

Another possible reason is the lack of awareness of Maven in the eight markets being shut down. There isn't enough demand for people wanting to use car-sharing or wanting to allow the use of their vehicles.

Source: Wall Street Journal (Subscription Required), Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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[G. David Felt]

Car sharing service requires people who careless about the auto so sharing it with others and having nicks, scratches, etc. does not bother them. Most people I believe like to take care of their stuff and as such are not willing to let someone else use it and abuse it.

[Drew Dowdell]

I saw Maven as a Zipcar or Car2Go alternative, but they never got it to critical mass.  I don't see Maven as long for this world. 

[G. David Felt]

16 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I saw Maven as a Zipcar or Car2Go alternative, but they never got it to critical mass.  I don't see Maven as long for this world. 

Zipcar and Car2Go are big in Seattle, but I can honestly say the cars are beat up. It is not pretty to see the amount of damage on them. Lime Bike who started in Seattle a couple years back and those ugly lime green bikes everywhere started a Lime Car share program and has ugly Lime Green Fiats all over, but they seem to not be getting used like Zipcar or Car2Go.

FYI, I question how long these ride share programs will last. BMW had ReachNow in Seattle and the auto's are still around but have not really gotten much use, just plenty of damage like Car2Go and Zipcar.

I see on their web site that ReachNow and Car2Go have merged and will now be known at Reach Now with a new phone app and logo for their joined auto's. You now will have a choice of BMW or MB autos.

https://reachnow.com/en/ 

[oldshurst442]

29 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Most people I believe like to take care of their stuff and as such are not willing to let someone else use it and abuse it.

Quote

 

FYI, I question how long these ride share programs will last. BMW had ReachNow in Seattle and the auto's are still around but have not really gotten much use, just plenty of damage like Car2Go and Zipcar.

 

 

 

Car repairs are expensive...

Hit a pothole, because you just dont give a shyte, and possibly hundreds if not thousands of dollars in repairs might happen instantly as soon as the tire enters and exits that pothole...

So yeah...again for the millionth time Im ranting about this...

Who thought that ride sharing is a good idea?

Car repairs and the cost of wear and tire have been on the minds of car owners as soon as the first automobile was sold to the first buyer in history. Over 120 years ago....

Uber and Lyft...

Dont pay taxes, or dont declare ALL of their revenue to all three levels of government...

They dont pay taxi licence fees. 

Dont own any taxi fleets per se. Because their drivers use their personal rides...

Dont pay their drivers a fair salary.

And STILL lose billions while while the onus for car repairs fall squarely on the shoulders of their drivers... because the drivers use their personal rides...and the recent report Uber and Lyft gave us is that ride sharing will NEVER be as cheap as car ownership EVEN if robots drive the cars...

 

Why is all this shocking to people?

Why isnt this common knowledge?

Why is this even news?  This type of news is a "duh" moment!!!

I understand some of us use UBER...but let us not be biased by our personal choices because we use ride sharing programs but at least let us see the reality of this car sharing thing for what it truly is....

Its fraud...

Its flawed.

Its not sustainable.

Its not reality.

Its not even that convenient... (in some cases.)

Its not even that much cheaper than regular taxi service.  (in some cases)

Uber and Lyft and all others will quietly go away as fast as they became a thing, they will disappear.... 

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

I have a day off today.

My wife does not work.  We are both sitting home shooting the shyte.  Both cars are sitting in our driveway. NOT EARNING REVENUE because we are NOT part of this car sharing business thing...

So...our cars are not earning revenue...

But...are cars are NOT incurring expenses either.

Most importantly...NO WEAR AND TEAR...

THAT is some costly shyte...this wear and tear phenomenon...

Remember...a car sharing ride program, the cars are being driven ALL THE TIME...

EVEN IF THERE IS A PASSENGER in the CAR AT ALL TIMES...the WEAR AND TEAR occurring will ALWAYS be GREATER than the revenue being generated.

Other businesses, when their sales increase, businesses may be able to reduce their costs and expenses through this capitalistic phenomenon through economies of scale...meaning, businesses could get better deals on what causes their expenses...

In this case, a taxi fleet could get good deals on oil changes and repairs at specific dealerships or car repair shops like Pep Boys or whatever. 

Uber and Lyft...have onbe fatal flaw to the detriment of their drivers.

What seems like an excellent idea for UBER and LYFT NOT owning a taxi fleet, by that extension, the drivers are supposedly repairing their own cars on regular Joe car dealership prices...

In this case here, when car sharing is concerned.

If a driver of a car is NOT the owner, but is using it, well, this driver does not give a shyte about repairs, so he/she will run it to the ground. And where does this leave the owner of that car?

With a broken ass car. And to put it back on the road for it to be a safe car...well...THAT LITERALLY costs thousands of dollars...

 

Like I said, I aint no cost analyst expert getting paid millions to make a business case for General Motors, UBER, LYFT, Zip...Im just using LOGIC. Im using KNOWLEDGE that SHOULD be apparent to EVERYBODY as the automobile and automobile ownership is over 120 years already...

THIS is the reason why cars are a DEPRECIATING ASSET.

AND THEY DEPRECIATE AT AN ACCELERATED RATE.

ESPECIALLY WHEN DRIVEN A LOT.

I GUESS THE KEY WOULD BE FOR 1 CAR TO GENERATE REVENUE AND MOST IMPORTANTLY...PROFIT...THAT IS GREATER THAN THE EXPENSES AND DEPRECIATION IT OCCURS...

Yeah...Good luck with that with an asset that has incredibly high...expenses. 

Edited May 22, 2019 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

And...repairs NEED to be made.

Why?

1. cars on the road, by law, have to be safe. Have to be road worthy. If a car accident happens and especially death occcurs, if the investigation reveals that the car was not road worthy, especially if its a car that is used as a revenue generated car, then criminal charges WILL be applied to owner of car.

2. Its good for business to have a car that looks good, Same like any other service oriented business.

Will you ever walk into a dilapidated  restaurant, that reeks of shyte, to eat?

yeah, I didnt think so...so why would this endeavor be any different? 

 

Ive done several costly renovations to my restaurant over the years. Decades. 

But in this case, costly renovations to the car, if not taken car of properly, need to be made almost on a weekly or monthly basis. OK...yearly.  But like I said,  wear and tear and stuff like that is expensive.  Almost as expensive as renovating a restaurant...  

But my restaurant generates a lot of revenue. And my asset, the building, is an APPRECIATING asset...

 

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

Enjoy the Day with the Wife @oldshurst442 I will admit, taking public transit, aka express bus into work every day has cut my gas bill and maintenance down big time.

Most of the Uber / lyft drivers are driving compact auto's so not comfy for me compared to our double decker buses here. The ride share programs are all small auto's. Lime uses Fiat 500, ZipCar here is all Honda Civics or Subaru Foresters and Car2Go is MB C-Class or their equal CUV. ReachNow is BMW 3 series with a few X3. For the most part, the auto's are too small for me.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Enjoy the Day with the Wife @oldshurst442 I will admit, taking public transit, aka express bus into work every day has cut my gas bill and maintenance down big time.

Most of the Uber / lyft drivers are driving compact auto's so not comfy for me compared to our double decker buses here. The ride share programs are all small auto's. Lime uses Fiat 500, ZipCar here is all Honda Civics or Subaru Foresters and Car2Go is MB C-Class or their equal CUV. ReachNow is BMW 3 series with a few X3. For the most part, the auto's are too small for me.

We don't have anything but Zipcar here.  They have a wide variety of cars, crossovers, and even trucks (Tacoma or Frontier)

[G. David Felt]

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

We don't have anything but Zipcar here.  They have a wide variety of cars, crossovers, and even trucks (Tacoma or Frontier)

If GM would actually market it, use a wide selection of auto's from full size trucks and SUVs to compacts, I think they could make money on this. Heck I would have liked to use a full size GM truck over U-Haul. GM just does not get how to support and actually grow new businesses. Sad  

[G. David Felt]

Bonus today, walking to the bus to head home and all 3 vendors were in close proximity to each other.

so gla and glc plus x3 yet all.small autos.

[frogger]

I think there is room for car sharing and taxi-alternative services, but it depends on the market.  Where the cost of living is high and car ownership/parking spots high they should continue to do well.. When we bought our last investment condo, a parking spot was $75,000 so we passed on it.  I'm sure the tenant will be a frequent consumer of these types of services.  When you pay $2800 for rent for 660 sq feet downtown, owning and maintaining a car for another $800 a month is probably not in the cards for most single people.

Maven is here locally,  the nearest spot I can pick up a Maven vehicle is about a 10 minute walk.  Usually they have midsize CUV's, compact sedans, and some full size SUV's in their lineup.  Selection if you are being spontaneous on a weekend is not great, mostly pre-booked.

 

 

 

[riviera74]

GM does not understand ridesharing like Uber and Lyft.  Then again, GM had no idea whether ridesharing would lift off or be a dud.  I understand why Maven was set up.  Then again, it would not surprise me if Maven disappears within 18-24 months.

[balthazar]

4 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

GM does not understand ridesharing like Uber and Lyft.  Then again, GM had no idea whether ridesharing would lift off or be a dud.

With Uber losing $1.8 billion & Lyft losing $1 billion last year, I think we can -for now- call them a 'dud'. They are still businesses, correct?

Maybe GM understands the segment pretty well….

[oldshurst442]

3 hours ago, frogger said:

Selection if you are being spontaneous on a weekend is not great, mostly pre-booked.

And this is another reason why I think all this car sharing shyte will never be a thing...even though you have areas like in Toronto as how you described it. Expensive to park...but...

As much as habitual humans are, we are also equally impulsive, and the ownership of a car facilitate our impulsive nature. And this is  THE #1 reason why cars are such an important and integral part of North American life and culture. And...why the automobile has won the hearts and is as equally important and an integral part of the rest of the world too. 

  In European culture, in Asian culture...it took a longer time to get there because of economical reasons, but when their economy equaled that of North America's and was thriving like North America was in the 1950s, then the car for them became EXACTLY what the car was for us in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s...

Therefore...

When you want to go somewhere, and you need wheels...NOW...to get to where you wanna go to do what you wanna do...NOW... and walking or biking, or public transit, or taxi just wont cut it, but a car is what it takes...but you cant get one...because

Quote

Selection if you are being spontaneous on a weekend is not great, mostly pre-booked.

well...trust me...

Quote

When we bought our last investment condo, a parking spot was $75,000 so we passed on it.  I'm sure the tenant will be a frequent consumer of these types of services.  When you pay $2800 for rent for 660 sq feet downtown, owning and maintaining a car for another $800 a month is probably not in the cards for most single people.

All that that above that you experienced...you WILL find a way to afford it some how...you WILL make sacrifices on other luxuries just to own a car and its expensive parking because car ownership is just about the ultimate (materialistic)freedom we have...even though its expensive to upkeep a car, its downright frustrating to be stuck in traffic, but man-o-man is it ever worth it when you wanna go somewhere and well, you go because you own a car...

You might take public transport to go to work. 

You might quit cigarettes and eating out all together.

You might only use your car once a month...

Just to save money to continue owning a car...

But you will do it.

I know I was in that situation in my life. I was young. I was in my early 20s and I did not have a ride. My parents took the(their) family car to Boston. I wasnt  21 years old to rent a car (I was 20) and I didnt have a credit card anyway so it didnt matter...so I was stuck. 

I had a really hot girl wanting to go out with me one night, had to turn her down because I had no wheels, never to get a chance to meet up with her again.

The next night, I missed a really cool house party that nobody could drive me to.

The following night...I did go out with my friends, went to a dance club...flirted with a cute girl dancing on an elevated dance floor while I was on the lower level. My friends thought it was a boring club, and before I knew what was going on with them dumb ass friends, we left the club. I didnt get a chance to get the girl's number or even stay and get a taxi to drive me home...maybe even get her to be driven with the same taxi as me so we could be together even longer...

So...at 20 years old I learned very quickly, that I will NEVER EVER be left without wheels...I knew the importance of owning a car right then and there, even if my lesson was from a shallow perspective...

That is my point of view at least. 

Im not saying Im right and you or anybody else is wrong. But for me....this is how I view it:

One WILL find a way to afford it some how...one WILL make sacrifices on other luxuries just to own a car and its expensive parking because car ownership is just about the ultimate (materialistic) freedom we have...even though its expensive to upkeep a car, and its downright frustrating to be stuck in traffic, but man-o-man is it ever worth it when one wants to go somewhere and well, one goes because one owns a car...

One might take public transport to go to work. 

One might quit cigarettes and eating out all together.

One might only use his/her car once a month...

Just to save money to continue owning a car...

But one will do it.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

While I am not a fan of using Uber / Lyft / Taxis, I do get their need and appeal to those that would rather use an App to get a ride from A to B. 

GM if it really wanted to change peoples perception of GM auto's should Market and push using the Best of each model GM has to offer to show off how great their auto's are.

I am sure they could find some way to use this as a marketing write off to at least break even showing everything from entry level to luxury level in the Maven family.

At least I would hope so.

[oldshurst442]

3 minutes ago, dfelt said:

While I am not a fan of using Uber / Lyft / Taxis, I do get their need and appeal to those that would rather use an App to get a ride from A to B. 

Of course there is a need for Taxis!  Or even *SIGH*  Uber...

But for the arrogance of some in the car sharing business that are trying to convince us that the future of the automobile is car sharing...I say bullshyte, and hence my rant above. Which also has some real stories to it about  why I think the way I do about car sharing.

 

[G. David Felt]

1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

Of course there is a need for Taxis!  Or even *SIGH*  Uber...

But for the arrogance of some in the car sharing business that are trying to convince us that the future of the automobile is car sharing...I say bullshyte, and hence my rant above. Which also has some real stories to it about  why I think the way I do about car sharing.

 

I understand and like you there is a need for Taxis, yet I prefer to drive my own clean auto than one trashed by people who just want to use it and be held responsible.

I also like you think the whole auto sharing future is over blown.

[frogger]

18 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Im not saying Im right and you or anybody else is wrong. But for me....this is how I view it:

One WILL find a way to afford it some how...one WILL make sacrifices on other luxuries just to own a car and its expensive parking because car ownership is just about the ultimate (materialistic) freedom we have...even though its expensive to upkeep a car, and its downright frustrating to be stuck in traffic, but man-o-man is it ever worth it when one wants to go somewhere and well, one goes because one owns a car...

One might take public transport to go to work. 

One might quit cigarettes and eating out all together.

One might only use his/her car once a month...

Just to save money to continue owning a car...

But one will do it.

And now the smartphone has arrived and made ownership of a car nowhere near as appealing for those living in urban areas where you can walk by a bar or restaurant every minute or to your place of work in 30 minutes.  Oh they also made keeping in contact or researching potential hookups pretty convenient as well...

[G. David Felt]

39 minutes ago, frogger said:

And now the smartphone has arrived and made ownership of a car nowhere near as appealing for those living in urban areas where you can walk by a bar or restaurant every minute or to your place of work in 30 minutes.  Oh they also made keeping in contact or researching potential hookups pretty convenient as well...

Never have seen the appeal of living in the cities. Suburbans or rural all the way.

[riviera74]

Rideshare and rural America DO NOT MIX well.  Save it for the big cities and leave it to those who actually have to maintain the cars.  GM does not need Maven.  Uber and Lyft need to have its contractors classified as employees.

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Never have seen the appeal of living in the cities. Suburbans or rural all the way.

I like being within 15-25 minutes of the downtown/CBD of a city.   With Cleveland, I'm in a close-in suburb--about 20 min to downtown and the closest beach, with Phoenix and Denver I lived in suburban portions of the city, within about 15 minutes of downtown.   I have lived rural---on my family farm, but I would never live rural again..I don't want to be very far from the amenities of the modern world like a level 1 trauma center,  a wide selection of restaurants (not chains) and quick food delivery options (DoorDash, Grubhub, etc),  culture like museums, concert venues, etc, within 1/2 hr of a major airport, etc.    Having Uber/Lyft as an option for going various places is advantageous.   And of course high tech jobs are in the cities and suburbs, nothing happening in rural places like where my family farm is. 

Edited May 23, 2019 by Robert Hall

[oldshurst442]

2 hours ago, frogger said:

And now the smartphone has arrived and made ownership of a car nowhere near as appealing for those living in urban areas where you can walk by a bar or restaurant every minute or to your place of work in 30 minutes.  Oh they also made keeping in contact or researching potential hookups pretty convenient as well...

Yeah...that infamous smart phone.

I lived  dead smack in the middle of the urban city.

15 minutes by bicycle from Old Montreal. 20 minutes by bicycle from Downtown Montreal.   That was a great time. I must admit.

By bus, downtown Montreal was a mere 10 minute ride if I entered the metro (subway) station and the train was just arriving. If not...add a minor 2 minutes to that trip. By car, with traffic lights and the like, 20 minutes trying to find parking...

I tell you one thing though...

Hooking up with some hot blonde that lives on the other side of the Island, maybe snapchat or FB on the iPhone could land you a date, but a car gets you to pick her up and then, the world is yours to discover with her...

A smartphone is many a thing...but it aint a car.  Living downtown or uptown, a car will always be a car...

A date on a subway ride, is not ideal.  Ive had those too, before I was able to legally drive, while I was a teenager. So...a movie and ice cream in Old Montreal was as cute as a teenage date could be.  And in Montreal, we have the underground city, where we could avoid the frigid cold above ground, and like you said...where you can walk by a bar or restaurant every minute or to your place of work in 30 minutes....all underground and all connected from metro station to metro station...in the downtown core. Which is awesome, like you say...but...a car will always be a car, because sometimes, one aspires to see other things other than the downtown core. 

I do not know about Toronto (im just being a smug douchebag), but Montreal and Vancouver have beautiful nature on the outskirts of the cities, that make beautiful date destinations when hooking up with hot blondes...or date night  with the hot wife you married 10-15 years ago...and while a smart phone books you that awesome resort at Whistler or Mont Tremblant, a car gets you there, and when you wanna be romantic and spontaneous to blow your hot blonde tinder pick-up or your hot wife's mind of 15 years...owning a car is really the only way to go...you could have all the lap tops and iPhones and virtual reality goggles and apps and tinder dates and Trivago listings...a car is the ONLY way to get you there, when YOU wanna go there on your OWN time...IF...YOU...OWN....YOUR OWN....CAR...

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Rideshare and rural America DO NOT MIX well.  Save it for the big cities and leave it to those who actually have to maintain the cars.  GM does not need Maven.  Uber and Lyft need to have its contractors classified as employees.

I will admit....owning a car in the city, in the core of the city, must be a female dog. I could see how ride sharing could be useful. Nothing beats owning your own car, but I could see how ride sharing could be a viable alternative. 

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

I like being within 15-25 minutes of the downtown/CBD of a city.   With Cleveland, I'm in a close-in suburb--about 20 min to downtown and the closest beach, with Phoenix and Denver I lived in suburban portions of the city, within about 15 minutes of downtown.   I have lived rural---on my family farm, but I would never live rural again..I don't want to be very far from the amenities of the modern world like a level 1 trauma center,  a wide selection of restaurants (not chains) and quick food delivery options (DoorDash, Grubhub, etc),  culture like museums, concert venues, etc, within 1/2 hr of a major airport, etc.    Having Uber/Lyft as an option for going various places is advantageous.   And of course high tech jobs are in the cities and suburbs, nothing happening in rural places like where my family farm is. 

Me too.

Suburban living, but not far away from the city. In Montreal's case, because the immediate suburban cities away from the downtown core are basically little cities of their own...30-40 minutes away from Downtown Montreal is what I prefer myself. There are suburban towns that are farther though, but those are too far removed... (a circular perimeter of 15-25 minutes away from Downtown Montreal still lands you on the Island of Montreal, in any direction and while technically in some on-island burroughs you are considered living in Montreal's burbs, you are still living in an urban environment.)  Immediate off-island suburbia, and now you are 30-40 minutes away from Downtown Montreal, but now you are in a real suburban environment, but not so suburban because they are little cities in their own right with everything you described that you would like in having in a modern world with all the amenities you described. And yes, in Montreal, great restaurants need not be soley in the Downtown core...the trendy stuff is Downtown, but we are really spoiled in Montreal....

Ive lived in a rural setting only when I was visiting Greece weeks at a time on vacation. Living in the same house my momma lived. 

And while I enjoyed that lifestyle, keeping in mind that its on a Greek Island in the summer...I would only like to do that in the summer for a couple of weeks, because, I am a city slicker more than anything else. On vacation, in Greece, chasing down a chicken so we could have dinner later in the night,..eating figs and peaches straight off the trees while WALKING to the beach...WALKING to the village καφενείο (coffeshop) or souvlaki joint... yeah...I LOVE that rural setting...but ONLY on vacation for 2-4 weeks... 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by oldshurst442

[frogger]

Love my current inner suburb.. ~5 miles from downtown, walk to all sorts of restaurants, grocers, bakeries, patio bars, doctor, dentist, barber, gym, subway station, movie theatre (though it will be torn down for condos within a few years), 3 minute walk to kids school. Still quiet enough at night I don't get woken by sirens, horns, 5am garbage trucks etc of downtown.  More likely to be woken by territorial trash pandas fighting.

 

 

[daves87rs]

Kinda wish they had buses around here....would be nice for the afternoon ride home....

[Robert Hall]

I do like the idea of a walkable neighborhood, haven't lived in one in a long time.  My neighborhood is very quiet day and night, but not really much to walk to...though I did walk home from the tire shop when I had my Jeep in getting tires about 18 months ago, but all the restaurants along the way are mostly fast food.  I do have a Thai resturant I could walk to, though..it's pretty good.     

When I lived in Phoenix and Denver the neighborhoods were somewhat walkable, esp. Phoenix where I was 2 blocks away from a street w/ my grocery and lots of trendy restaurants that I drove to often.  But given the horrific climate in Phoenix, no one walks.   

The best mix of livability w/ walkability I've experienced in the past were in college towns, Kent, Ohio and Ann Arbor, Michigan.  I enjoyed the years I lived in each town.   Haven't been back to A2 in 20 years, but have visited Kent a couple times in the last year, the downtown is great..lots of new development on and off campus. 

[Drew Dowdell]

I like Uber/Lyft for going out and not needing a designated driver.