Tesla's Stock Plunges

[Drew Dowdell]

Tesla's stock opened under $200 at $197.75 on Tuesday, a substantial decrease from the $332.80 it was trading for in December 2018. In April, Tesla posted a $722M loss for the first quarter of 2019.  Tesla has faced terrible delivery reports over the last two quarters while also trying to get the new Tesla Model Y production online and a Gigafactory in Shanghai operational. 

The Los Angeles Times reports that Wedbush Securities Analyst Dan Ives has cut the price target of Tesla from $275 a share to $230 a share citing an escalating trade war between the U.S. and China.  Another analyst cuts Telsa's forecast Chinese sales in half and sees the company being forced to take on new partners to make ends meet. 

Tesla recently raised $2.7 billion in a stock and bond sale, an amount that Tesla head Elon Musk says will give the company about 10 months of cash.

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[smk4565]

Just make more crossovers, problem solved,

[G. David Felt]

Trumps hatred of all things not Baby boomer old including electrics as he seems to love oil companies could truly make Tesla go private / merge with another auto company. Sadly that seems to be the fate for small companies that have bucked the trends of what some see as the way to do things. I would say Tesla's biggest mistake is not coping the assembly process of the existing auto companies and trying to re-invent the assembly process as all robotic. It will be an interesting year for sure.

3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Just make more crossovers, problem solved,

It is bigger than just making more crossovers. Musk has not wanted to follow anything the existing auto companies in the world have done to streamline the assembly process. As such, they clearly waste more money on manual intensive processes in building a Tesla. 

[Drew Dowdell]

@dfelt most of that is bunk, but you do bring up an interesting point.  This would be a good time to take Tesla private.  It would cost far less than it would have 10 months ago. 

[A Horse With No Name]

58 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

@dfelt most of that is bunk, but you do bring up an interesting point.  This would be a good time to take Tesla private.  It would cost far less than it would have 10 months ago. 

Except that I don't think they will ever be financially viable for a number of reasons.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

This would be a good time to take Tesla private.  It would cost far less than it would have 10 months ago. 

Hold out- it’s far from its bottom yet...

 

[riviera74]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Hold out- it’s far from its bottom yet...

 

Bottom? If Tesla's price were south of $100/share, then it has reached bottom.  Then again, Elon Musk should take it private at that point, not at $230/share.

[balthazar]

With horrific losses & cratered sales, it should be in Ford’s price tier. I’m not convinced Tesla is going to survive 

I pity those who brought @$35x/share!

[Drew Dowdell]

I think Elon will take it private before he lets Tesla fail completely. 

[riviera74]

Tesla stock doing the limbo.  How low can it go before it falls on its butt.

[smk4565]

Time for Apple to buy them up.

[Drew Dowdell]

45 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Time for Apple to buy them up.

They should. Tim Cook is a better CEO than Elon Musk.

[balthazar]

The talking order clown at Burger World's drive-thru is a better CEO than Musk.

[daves87rs]

He might want to decide what venture he wants to stay in now.....

[A Horse With No Name]

21 hours ago, balthazar said:

Hold out- it’s far from its bottom yet...

 

It's still a bad buy at the price of a Whopper....and my good friend Dustin Got food poisoning the last time we ate at burger king. Cost him $350 in an ER visit....which is far cheaper than the utter financial bath Tesla investors are going to take.

12 hours ago, balthazar said:

The talking order clown at Burger World's drive-thru is a better CEO than Musk.

More sane at least...

4 hours ago, daves87rs said:

He might want to decide what venture he wants to stay in now.....

...or retreat to a private island and watch porn. That way he can mentally escape how badly his car company failed.

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Time for Apple to buy them up.

They are far too smart for that...

15 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I think Elon will take it private before he lets Tesla fail completely. 

Even he is not dumb enough to loose that much money. In five years, Tesla stock will be equal to pre bankruptcy GM stock in value.

19 hours ago, balthazar said:

With horrific losses & cratered sales, it should be in Ford’s price tier. I’m not convinced Tesla is going to survive 

I pity those who brought @$35x/share!

I don't pity them in the least, the writing was on the wall when they bought them. Ford can go away also IMHO....

[G. David Felt]

@A Horse With No Name Not so sure Apple is that smart, they seemed to have missed the streaming thing, Apple products have not been innovative, Samsung has passed them up. Tim Cook seems to be more on status quo and just keep things consistent than innovating. I suspect Apple will fall back down to where they were in the early 2000's.

[smk4565]

Tesla would be a great buy for Apple if they want into cars.  And Tesla’s electronics are far ahead of the rest.  And the real value would be in the data.  Apple would be able to take all that driving data, how often people stop at Starbucks, when they charge, what restaurants they go to etc.  Just like Google is tracking Internet traffic, Apple could do that with a car because Tesla owns the data on the car.  I am sure there are restrictions on how it can be used but insurance companies would love that data for writing premiums and in claims handling.  

[oldshurst442]

53 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...or retreat to a private island and watch porn. That way he can mentally escape how badly his car company failed.

Hasnt failed...yet...

And besides...what constitutes failure nowadays, anyway?

1. Amazon has lost billions in the first 10 years(give or take 2-3 years) of its existance before it became the unstoppable (for now) force that it is.

2. Uber and Lyft are currently losing billions as I type this and for the last 2-3-4-5 years.  Do you consider Uber and Lyft as failures...I do...but I dont see you bitchin' about them. I bitch about them. You dont.

Irony is that, Uber and Lyft and Tesla, seem to fit in the same category as it seems enough people gravitate towards them for investors to continue to have faith in them to poor billions into them and it seems like Tesla, Uber and Lyft are now part of our modern landscape, yet...we bitch about Tesla being a failure...not Uber and Lyft, yet Uber and Lyft...REALLY have NOTHING concrete to offer us...they just manage an app on Android and Apple....but Tesla, you know....actually builds cars...real cars...not vapour ware...unlike...you know...Uber and Lyft...

3. Ford, Chrysler and GM lost billions. GM and Chrysler DID go bankrupt. Got bailed. Ford ALMOST went bankrupt. And its still paying the price for it because they did NOT go bankrupt...unlike GM...

4. Tesla cars, although Tesla the company is losing money and not generated profits, like just only 2-3 maybe 4 (and that is stretching it) quarters in their existence,  Tesla cars are quite desirable all over the world. And Tesla has sold quite a few of them and continue to do so. 

I could go on...but I dont think any of you folk want to continue to read my rants...

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Even he is not dumb enough to loose that much money. In five years, Tesla stock will be equal to pre bankruptcy GM stock in value.

Is that really a bad thing?

It worked out for GM...

You know...Tesla cars, in some cases, are MORE desirable than some GM cars at the moment.   There was a time when GM cars...were not so desirable at all.  

The problem as I see it, is not with Tesla. 

One could say Elon. But that is still masking the problem, and maybe Elon is to blame 100%, but Tesla needs car guys to figure out the car building process. And not old school car guys either. Not the dinosaur old school car guys either.

Kinda like in the NHL currently.

Old school hockey people have old ideas that are no longer relevant in the sport anymore.  See Don Cherry (and I LOVE Don Cherry or Brian Burke)

But not far out...clueless new brains either...just using analytics to manage an NHL hockey team either.  But some youngish guy, that has ties to old school but isnt afraid to innovate and get within the times.

Elon Musk maybe too far removed from reality on how things actually work in the manufacturing business. Especially in the automobile manufacturing business.   

The Chinese seem to understand where the future of automobile manufacturing maybe heading....

Apple....

Steve Jobs had to get back to Apple to save it. He was fired from his own company because he was too much of a visionary, but the folk running Apple were simply too old fashioned to progress forward...

Steve Jobs was that perfect modern visionary that Im talking about. He used old marketing ideas but modernized the context. 

That is what Tesla needs. A modern, hip, visionary to progress the company forward with manufacturing, but a guy that is grounded enough to understand that sometimes, the old way is perfect enough. Just to teak the old ways a tad...

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

They are far too smart for that...

Ooopps...

 

[riviera74]

Good thing Apple did NOT get Tesla then.  Big winner: Elon Musk.  Loser: Tesla shareholders.  Again.  Now this.

[Drew Dowdell]

I think Apple would have run Tesla better than Elon has.

[daves87rs]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I think Apple would have run Tesla better than Elon has.

Could have given the Spark Apple needed too....

[A Horse With No Name]

23 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Hasnt failed...yet...

And besides...what constitutes failure nowadays, anyway?

1. Amazon has lost billions in the first 10 years(give or take 2-3 years) of its existance before it became the unstoppable (for now) force that it is.

2. Uber and Lyft are currently losing billions as I type this and for the last 2-3-4-5 years.  Do you consider Uber and Lyft as failures...I do...but I dont see you bitchin' about them. I bitch about them. You dont.

Irony is that, Uber and Lyft and Tesla, seem to fit in the same category as it seems enough people gravitate towards them for investors to continue to have faith in them to poor billions into them and it seems like Tesla, Uber and Lyft are now part of our modern landscape, yet...we bitch about Tesla being a failure...not Uber and Lyft, yet Uber and Lyft...REALLY have NOTHING concrete to offer us...they just manage an app on Android and Apple....but Tesla, you know....actually builds cars...real cars...not vapour ware...unlike...you know...Uber and Lyft...

3. Ford, Chrysler and GM lost billions. GM and Chrysler DID go bankrupt. Got bailed. Ford ALMOST went bankrupt. And its still paying the price for it because they did NOT go bankrupt...unlike GM...

4. Tesla cars, although Tesla the company is losing money and not generated profits, like just only 2-3 maybe 4 (and that is stretching it) quarters in their existence,  Tesla cars are quite desirable all over the world. And Tesla has sold quite a few of them and continue to do so. 

I could go on...but I dont think any of you folk want to continue to read my rants...

#1. Tesla is entirely stoppable, will never get going and fully profitable.

#2. See #1.

#3. No love for Ford...covered ad nausea previously.

#4. Other car makers will bring out more desirable electrics.

I love your rants...

15 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I think Apple would have run Tesla better than Elon has.

Absolutely.

18 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Good thing Apple did NOT get Tesla then.  Big winner: Elon Musk.  Loser: Tesla shareholders.  Again.  Now this.

The pain is only starting for Tesla shareholders.

13 hours ago, daves87rs said:

Could have given the Spark Apple needed too....

Or sunk them...

23 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Ooopps...

 

But they were smart enough not to follow through...

[frogger]

Once the other luxury brands are producing a few electric sedans and CUV's each with similar or better range and performance, I don't see Tesla remaining an independent company. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[A Horse With No Name]

17 hours ago, frogger said:

Once the other luxury brands are producing a few electric sedans and CUV's each with similar or better range and performance, I don't see Tesla remaining an independent company. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If anything the Chinese will buy them and move production to China.

 

[G. David Felt]

14 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

If anything the Chinese will buy them and move production to China.

I agree that I can see China buying them, but they will keep the Tesla factory here just let everyone go, automate the rest of the place and bring in their own people to live in dorms. This would give them an access opening to the US market.

Then as they finish up the Chinese factory start production there for the local market.

[balthazar]

20 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

The pain is only starting for Tesla shareholders.

From $358 to $200: the pain has settled in, hung curtains and planted the flower beds.

[G. David Felt]

25 minutes ago, balthazar said:

From $358 to $200: the pain has settled in, hung curtains and planted the flower beds.

I am honestly surprised stock holders have not sued and demanded Musks Head on a platter.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/tesla-stock-price-stats-put-stock-plunge-into-perspective-2019-5-1028228512#shares-have-been-cut-in-half-since-musk-s-funding-secured-tweet5

WOW ? 

[A Horse With No Name]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

From $358 to $200: the pain has settled in, hung curtains and planted the flower beds.

The pain is more going to be like the family that buys a house in Connecticut in 1682 and is living in a modernized version of the same house in 2019...around a very long time. 

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

I am honestly surprised stock holders have not sued and demanded Musks Head on a platter.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/tesla-stock-price-stats-put-stock-plunge-into-perspective-2019-5-1028228512#shares-have-been-cut-in-half-since-musk-s-funding-secured-tweet5

WOW ? 

It's over valued at 20 bucks a share. 

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

I agree that I can see China buying them, but they will keep the Tesla factory here just let everyone go, automate the rest of the place and bring in their own people to live in dorms. This would give them an access opening to the US market.

Then as they finish up the Chinese factory start production there for the local market.

The Chinese will eventually own a good deal of the country. they are playing the long game we are politically incapable of. 

[Robert Hall]

If Tesla has a future as an independent car maker, I think they need to remove Musk and bring in more stable leadership.  Let him focus on Space X and the Boring Company.  

[balthazar]

The issue with removing Musk is half of the brand’s fanboys think he’ a genius, the other half think he’s out of control.

[Potluck]

What is they're both right and he's an out of control genius?

[A Horse With No Name]

On 5/25/2019 at 4:13 PM, Potluck said:

What is they're both right and he's an out of control genius?

Ummmm....I need no additional self proclaimed geniuses...

 

[Drew Dowdell]

"stable" ones at that

[ocnblu]

There's only room for one.  And he rocks.

[G. David Felt]

11 hours ago, ocnblu said:

There's only room for one.  And he rocks.

I take RJ at Rivian over Musk. Musk needs to go, he is hurting Tesla more than helping.

[ocnblu]

6 hours ago, dfelt said:

I take RJ at Rivian over Musk. Musk needs to go, he is hurting Tesla more than helping.

LOL zzzinnnng...

[A Horse With No Name]

On 5/27/2019 at 12:15 PM, ocnblu said:

There's only room for one.  And he rocks.

...and is the reason I will never own another car with a 1, 4 or 5 in the first digit of the vin. Not buying something built by people who elect such a person. Ever.

14 hours ago, dfelt said:

I take RJ at Rivian over Musk. Musk needs to go, he is hurting Tesla more than helping.

Everything we buy will be from the Chinese in 20 years anyways....

[Robert Hall]

7 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...and is the reason I will never own another car with a 1, 4 or 5 in the first digit of the vin. Not buying something built by people who elect such a person. Ever. 

So there is some significance to the first digit of the vin? 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...and is the reason I will never own another car with a 1, 4 or 5 in the first digit of the vin. Not buying something built by people who elect such a person. Ever.

Everything we buy will be from the Chinese in 20 years anyways....

Yo Willis, what up with those number's?

[Drew Dowdell]

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

So there is some significance to the first digit of the vin? 

The first digit in the VIN indicates the vehicle’s country of origin, or final point of assembly

[Robert Hall]

7 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The first digit in the VIN indicates the vehicle’s country of origin, or final point of assembly

Ok.  Checked in the garage, the VINs start with 1 and K. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Asia
J = Japan
KL to KR = South Korea

Europe
SA to SM = United Kingdom
SN to ST = Germany
VF to VR = France
W (all) = Germany (“W” originally stood for West Germany)
VA to VE = Austria
YS to YW = Sweden
ZA to ZR = Italy

North America
1, 4 & 5 = United States
2 = Canada
3 = Mexico

 Oceania
6 = Australia

South America
9A to 9E, 93 to 99 = Brazil 

I assume there must be more than just those codes, though those are what I found.    For example, a Ford Transit Connect is built in Turkey and a Buick Cascada is built in Poland. 

Edit: Apparently the Cascada gets VINed as W for Germany under Opel even though it is built in Poland. 

[balthazar]

So what do South Carolina built mercedes get coded as?

Edited May 28, 2019 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

19 minutes ago, balthazar said:

So what do South Carolina built mercedes get coded as?

Probably a 4 .   'Foreign vehicle made in USA'.  Though a Mercedes built in SC would be highly suspect, because Mercedes are built in Alabama and BMWs are built in SC.   

Edited May 28, 2019 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

9 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Probably a 4 .   'Foreign vehicle made in USA'.

HA! - found this, pretty interesting :

https://jalopnik.com/mercedes-benz-forced-to-stop-saying-the-sprinter-van-wa-1833923936

[Robert Hall]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

HA! - found this, pretty interesting :

https://jalopnik.com/mercedes-benz-forced-to-stop-saying-the-sprinter-van-wa-1833923936

Interesting...that sounds like the old knock-down-kit approach used in many countries in the past to give the image of 'local' production.  This is the first I'd heard of M-B having a Charleston plant, I knew only about the Vance, Ala plant for SUVs.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

46 minutes ago, balthazar said:

So what do South Carolina built Mercedes get coded as?

High Cost CPO's!  

[ocnblu]

5 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...and is the reason I will never own another car with a 1, 4 or 5 in the first digit of the vin. Not buying something built by people who elect such a person. Ever.

LOL buhbye then, have fun with that!