Chevrolet News:GM Confirms and Teases Mid-Engine Corvette

[Drew Dowdell]

GM has been teasing us for years about the possibility of a mid-engine Corvette.  The confirmation of its existence came to light on Thursday when Corvette Chief Engineer and GM CEO Mary Barra took a spin in the camoflaged prototype through Times Square in NYC. 

The stunt was part of a promotion where GM will auction off the final C7 Corvette to benefit the Stephen Siller Tunnel to Towers Foundation, a group that benefits fallen military members, first responders, and their families.  All of the winning bid will go towards the foundation which builds mortgage-free, accessible homes for military members and first responders.  GMC has raised more then $10 million for the foundation over the past 5 years.

Chevrolet will formally unveil the Corvette C8 on July 18th. 

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[thedriver]

*yawn*

[William Maley]

I'm hoping it will be powered by either a two or four-rotor Wankel engine.

[Frisky Dingo]

This is shaping up to be an unattractive looking car from what I can tell.

[Robert Hall]

19 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

This is shaping up to be an unattractive looking car from what I can tell.

The profile reminds of the Ferrari 360 and 430, but with some squared off elements..going to be interesting to see how it looks in person.  

Edited April 13, 2019 by Robert Hall

[Frisky Dingo]

6 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

The profile reminds of the Ferrari 360 and 430, but squared off.   

 

Yes, I think the lines and proportions are going to end up looking strange.

[Robert Hall]

One recent article I saw said that the C7 production would end by June and the last one will be auctioned off, so the C7 and C8 will not likely be sold concurrently as rumored.   Supposedly the base trim C8 will have a 500hp V8 and dual clutch transmission according to another article.

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/with-the-mid-engined-2020-c8-corvette-set-to-debut-chevy-will-auction-off-the-very-last-c7-corvette-ar185178.html

We will have to wait and see what pans out, definitely seems like the biggest change in the Corvette's long history.

The C8 will likely attract a different buyer than the C7, will be interesting to see how it does..will be one of the cheapest mid engine sports cars on the market.  

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

Interesting, if they do end the C7 production, could help push prices up on remaining models for those that want it over the C8.

Gonna be interesting to see the final reveal as right now it reminds me TOO MUCH of the Italian Garbage over priced sports cars that I car less about.

[smk4565]

It has a bit of an Acura NSX profile to it, and I don't think the NSX looks good.   We have to see it to really comment on how it looks though.  

I think the big make or break for the C8 is pricing.  I get the sense that GM will price this rather high and that may miss the mark for current Corvette owners and a price point that tChevy dealers can support.  And they need GM fans to buy it.  The C8 could go 250 mph and get 100 mpg and cost half what a Ferrari F8 costs, and ZERO Ferrari owners will even give it a look because no one is going from a Ferrari to a Chevy.  This is a similar problem Cadillac has with name brand in going to high dollar segments.

[regfootball]

we needed a shakeup in Corvette land.  This is going to stir the pot for awhile!  Dfelt is right, it should help push C7 values up.  Fence sitters, step up and get it or don't cry when its gone.

I'm not always a fan of GM's ways under Mary, but I have a lot of respect for her, and just sayin, she's also ----attractive----. That'd be a hoot to co drive a new C8 together.  WOOT

GM needs this kind of shakeup, the Corvette is a great way to shake it up.  I like the looks of it.  This also opens up showroom space for the Camaro, which let's face it, is a front engine 2 seater anyways.

what's the engine?????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by regfootball

[balthazar]

It appears Chevy has avoided the dreaded FWD-esque hugely overhanging mega snouts the Italian mid-engined cars are so frequently burdened with- that's a huge plus. And if it has even 75% of the C7's stylistic mojo it's going to look pretty incredible; you guys know I favor vintage design but the C7 is easily tied (for me) with '56-57.

But there's nothing that really stands out in the ME supercar arena- the platform configuration locks these cars into a very tight stylistic range. Generally- and personally-speaking, I burned out on this genre when I was like 18 yrs old. Lamborghini, which I kinda like, has been twiddledicking the same 1970 design ever since. And once a honda has an ME car, can anyone really get excited?

My question is, although there's a "last C7" defined, is it 100% certain there'll be no FE C8 variant alongside the ME C8? Because that'll be the most disappointing thing this next generation brings, IMO.

[ocnblu]

[Robert Hall]

8 hours ago, balthazar said:

 My question is, although there's a "last C7" defined, is it 100% certain there'll be no FE C8 variant alongside the ME C8? Because that'll be the most disappointing thing this next generation brings, IMO.

That would be a different car, different architecture...I doubt if GM would be investing in two different Corvette architectures at once.  It sounds like they are going all-in on mid-rear.   It's a risky move.  I'm sure they will lose a lot of long time customers that don't like mid-rear cars...but gain new customers. I can imagine a lot of the old farts griping that it looks like a 'fancy furrin' car''.. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

^ Well, they've already made the investment in the FE architecture - it certainly wouldn't need a complete re-engineering.

IF Chevy is going only with the ME version I agree; it will lose a cornerstone of it's iconic image (not that it 'looks furrin').

IF the C8 is only ME, I guarantee sales will settle out markedly lower than currently. There's just not a lot of appeal in ME cars.
- - - - -
Much tighter overhang than typical for the genre :

Edited April 14, 2019 by balthazar

[smk4565]

If Chevy wants to make the Corvette challenge to McLaren, Ferrari and Lamborghini then they need mid-engine, high rev turbo engine, carbon fiber panels, etc which is all expensive and opposite of what the Corvette has always been.  I think they should made this a Cadillac and kept the Corvette as a V6/V8 front engine car in the $50-100k range.  

As far as the Camaro goes it is too expensive too, sales of that car are bad, they should make it roomier and like the coupe alternative to a Veloster or Golf GTI in terms of price point. But you watch the Camaro move into $35-75k range to fill the void left when the Corvette goes up in price, then the Camaro will well like an ATS and GM will wonder why.

[balthazar]

46 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

As far as the Camaro goes it is too expensive too, sales of that car are bad, they should make it roomier and like the coupe alternative to a Veloster or Golf GTI in terms of price point. But you watch the Camaro move into $35-75k range to fill the void left when the Corvette goes up in price, then the Camaro will well like an ATS and GM will wonder why.

Veloster sold 10K units in the US  in 2018. Golf/ Golf GTI/ GOlf R32 only sold 41K.

Camaro sold 51K.

Do you think hyundai is pondering enlarging the Veloster, adding a V8 from the genesis, increasing the starting price by $8K and hope to get closer to the Camaro in sales? Or are they just "wondering why"?

Edited April 14, 2019 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

19 minutes ago, balthazar said:

 

Do you think hyundai is pondering enlarging the Veloster, adding a V8 from the genesis, increasing the starting price by $8K and hope to get closer to the Camaro in sales? Or are they just "wondering why"?

A sports coupe based on the Stinger and a luxury sports coupe version of the G70 for Genesis would be really cool, but I don't see it happening.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Robert Hall

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Veloster sold 10K units in the US  in 2018. Golf/ Golf GTI/ GOlf R32 only sold 41K.

Camaro sold 51K.

Do you think hyundai is pondering enlarging the Veloster, adding a V8 from the genesis, increasing the starting price by $8K and hope to get closer to the Camaro in sales? Or are they just "wondering why"?

The Veloster has low sales, maybe that is a bad example, but the Camaro isn't an inexpensive sports car anymore, as the original mission was.   Or maybe sports cars are just dying and it doesn't matter.  

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

A sports coupe based on the Stinger and a luxury sports coupe version of the G70 for Genesis would be really cool, but I don't see it happening.

They won't because sports car sales are so low.  A 4-door Camaro that undercuts the Stinger by $5k (and VW Arteon by $8k) could have appeal.  It would be easy to make a 4 door Camaro lift back off that platform, hell most of the work is done with the CT5.  And they could price that where the current Impala is when that dies.  Then at least Chevy would keep 3 sedans, whatever compact survives, Malibu and Camaro sedan.

On a side note I think Ford is in trouble in the future, because Lincoln is weak, their SUVs like Escape, Ecosport, Edge are easily outsold by the Asian competition, and there is more Asian competition coming, they are basically hanging on by the F150.  If Tesla or someone else disrupts that full size truck market, Ford doesn't have anyplace else to make money.

[ocnblu]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

A sports coupe based on the Stinger and a luxury sports coupe version of the G70 for Genesis would be really cool, but I don't see it happening.

According to our DP, there is a Genesis AWD coupe coming.  We just signed on to be the only Genesis dealer in SE PA, and he's seen it.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

A 4-door Camaro that undercuts the Stinger by $5k (and VW Arteon by $8k) could have appeal. 

Hmmm- Stinger sales were only 17K- do you really think adding 2 more doors to the Camaro is going to raise it's 51K sales?

Perhaps these hip-shot product ideas need a bit more reflection time, eh?

[regfootball]

18 hours ago, balthazar said:

It appears Chevy has avoided the dreaded FWD-esque hugely overhanging mega snouts the Italian mid-engined cars are so frequently burdened with- that's a huge plus. And if it has even 75% of the C7's stylistic mojo it's going to look pretty incredible; you guys know I favor vintage design but the C7 is easily tied (for me) with '56-57.

But there's nothing that really stands out in the ME supercar arena- the platform configuration locks these cars into a very tight stylistic range. Generally- and personally-speaking, I burned out on this genre when I was like 18 yrs old. Lamborghini, which I kinda like, has been twiddledicking the same 1970 design ever since. And once a honda has an ME car, can anyone really get excited?

My question is, although there's a "last C7" defined, is it 100% certain there'll be no FE C8 variant alongside the ME C8? Because that'll be the most disappointing thing this next generation brings, IMO.

Yup, your first two paragraphs here are spot on.

[ocnblu]

[smk4565]

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

Hmmm- Stinger sales were only 17K- do you really think adding 2 more doors to the Camaro is going to raise it's 51K sales?

Perhaps these hip-shot product ideas need a bit more reflection time, eh?

Stinger is wildly over priced.  The Turbo V6 goes over $50k which is getting into 340i territory and the 340i is much faster, plus it a BMW not a Kia.     Even the 4-cylinder Stinger is $33k base so most of those are probably listed for $40k.  And the Stinger isn't any nicer inside than an Optima, and that new Sonata looks more luxurious than the Stinger.

If Chevy added a 4-door Camaro  that was $27k base and $45k for the 460 hp V6, they would add some sales to that 51k, rather than watch it just die off as coupes die.  

[regfootball]

I think if they ever make the Camaro habitable for humans and make it so you can see out of it, give it an all wheel drive option, and style it so it’s nice looking to the majority of the population again, and they don’t overprice it, 

then the Camaro should sell quite well!

or did I just describe the challenger 

[garnermike]

Must admit, I am not a fan of the C7's sharp-edges look. I tend towards being more traditionalist re: Vette's outer skin aesthetic, preferring the C6 2011-13's rounded/smoother looks as far as later model years go. That said, I like the looks of this ME C8. Have read reports that it will start at a base of $62,000, which IMO hardly makes the C8 unattainable for either entry-level or loyal Vette buyers. One can spend that amount on a full-powered/optioned-out Hellcat, Camaro or Mustang.

[Frisky Dingo]

On 4/13/2019 at 9:14 PM, smk4565 said:

It has a bit of an Acura NSX profile to it, and I don't think the NSX looks good.   We have to see it to really comment on how it looks though.  

I think the big make or break for the C8 is pricing.  I get the sense that GM will price this rather high and that may miss the mark for current Corvette owners and a price point that tChevy dealers can support.  And they need GM fans to buy it.  The C8 could go 250 mph and get 100 mpg and cost half what a Ferrari F8 costs, and ZERO Ferrari owners will even give it a look because no one is going from a Ferrari to a Chevy.  This is a similar problem Cadillac has with name brand in going to high dollar segments.

 

I'll stop short of saying ZERO.

I personally sold a C7 Z06 to someone who had 2 previous Ferraris. He was done with them. Done with poor service, done with poor reliability, and done with their outrageous costs.

In fact, in a lot of ways, i think Ferrari owners are the the stereotypical Corvette owners of the supercar realm. They buy them to conclude to themselves and show others they've made it, they hardly ever drive them, and they are oftentimes little more than petulant fanboys.

[surreal1272]

18 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Stinger is wildly over priced.  The Turbo V6 goes over $50k which is getting into 340i territory and the 340i is much faster, plus it a BMW not a Kia.     Even the 4-cylinder Stinger is $33k base so most of those are probably listed for $40k.  And the Stinger isn't any nicer inside than an Optima, and that new Sonata looks more luxurious than the Stinger.

If Chevy added a 4-door Camaro  that was $27k base and $45k for the 460 hp V6, they would add some sales to that 51k, rather than watch it just die off as coupes die.  

You are comparing large apples to smaller oranges. The Stinger is quite a bit longer and larger than any 3 series. It is closer in size to the 5 series, which is way higher in price, when comparably equipped. Furthermore, that $51K Stinger comes fully loaded while most of the turbo 6 models are closer to the $42-45 range. It never surprises me how much you try to dismiss or belittle anything that isn’t from Germany. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

Yeah, @smk4565 you're comparing two very different sized vehicles. The Stinger is priced very well compared to the luxury sport sedans. 

GT(with the 3.3TT) starts at $39,300.  

[smk4565]

50 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, @smk4565 you're comparing two very different sized vehicles. The Stinger is priced very well compared to the luxury sport sedans. 

GT(with the 3.3TT) starts at $39,300.  

What is it priced well compared to?  The Stinger is no nicer than an Optima or Camry.   A V6 Camry loaded up is $35k, the Stinger is that with rear drive and an extra 50 hp or so for $15,000 more.  The Stinger isn't a luxury car.  

[regfootball]

62k for a mid engine sports car is an INSANELY good deal.

I will guess most that end up on the showfloor will sticker at at least 75-80k.  There will be versions that 100k will be easy to hit.

[aurora97]

Not bad for a project that looks like it was based off the 2002 Cadillac Cien concept car.  It's amazing to look back in that time and see how much GM has changed so much and stayed the same since.

[surreal1272]

40 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

What is it priced well compared to?  The Stinger is no nicer than an Optima or Camry.   A V6 Camry loaded up is $35k, the Stinger is that with rear drive and an extra 50 hp or so for $15,000 more.  The Stinger isn't a luxury car.  

Stop moving the bar. That was not your initial gripe. You complained about the price being too high when compared to a compact luxury car and now you are splitting hairs over the interior when it looks just fine for its price/performance range. Shall we bring up the relative cheapness of entry model German cars and their faux leather, for example? 

 

And did you really type that? A Camry? A FWD non-sporty sedan against a RWD/AWD grand tourer? You have to be kidding me. Hey, while we are at it, let’s compare a $35K loaded Camry against a $53K 303 HP (35 HP less than a lower priced and loaded Stinger) Mercedes Benz E300? That’s how apples to oranges your comparisons are. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, regfootball said:

62k for a mid engine sports car is an INSANELY good deal.

I will guess most that end up on the showfloor will sticker at at least 75-80k.  There will be versions that 100k will be easy to hit.

I don't think it will be that cheap.  I am thinking like $80k base model.  Although that is also without me seeing the interior or knowing engine specs, but I predict price is going up.

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Stop moving the bar. That was not your initial gripe. You complained about the price being too high when compared to a compact luxury car and now you are splitting hairs over the interior when it looks just fine for its price/performance range. Shall we bring up the relative cheapness of entry model German cars and their faux leather, for example? 

 

And did you really type that? A Camry? A FWD non-sporty sedan against a RWD/AWD grand tourer? You have to be kidding me. Hey, while we are at it, let’s compare a $35K loaded Camry against a $53K 303 HP (35 HP less than a lower priced and loaded Stinger) Mercedes Benz E300? That’s how apples to oranges your comparisons are. 

My gripe is the Stinger is overpriced.  The V6 Stinger costs more than a V8 Mustang or Camaro for example.  And the Stinger isn't really any more luxurious or better equipped than a Mustang, it just has back doors.   A Stinger is more than a Hemi Charger, too, and again the Stinger is maybe marginally better on interior, only because the Charger is ancient.

I love the fact that Kia made a rear drive sports sedan, something different than all the FWD generic stuff that is out there.  But they missed the mark on pricing.  

Kia has sold 3,227 Stinger in the first quarter, (which is down from 3,920) and they sold 22,668 Optimas which is up from last year.  Same size car, I think similar interior quality/luxury in both.  You can even get the same 2 liter turbo in both, but in the Stringer they change you $10-15k more than Optima because they turned the engine the correct way.  Way too much of an up charge to send power to the back wheels instead of the front.

[daves87rs]

Very interesting either way....

[ccap41]

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

What is it priced well compared to?  The Stinger is no nicer than an Optima or Camry.   A V6 Camry loaded up is $35k, the Stinger is that with rear drive and an extra 50 hp or so for $15,000 more.  The Stinger isn't a luxury car.  

It's priced more like a cheaper sports sedan, obviously. It's cheaper and roomier than a 330i that starts at 40k with a 2.0T. 

Stinger GT(TT3.3):$39,300

BMW 330i(base price): $40,250 

The 3.3 Stinger has 64hp and 109tq more than a V6 Camry. The Camry also cannot be optioned with AWD. 

As @surreal1272 has pointed out, it's considerably larger than a 3 Series. 

Stinger passenger volume: 93.8 cu.ft

Camry passenger volume: 100.4 cu.ft.

Stinger cargo volume(seats up): 23.3 cu.ft.

Camry cargo volume(seats up): 15.1 cu.ft.

Stinger total interior volume: 117.1 cu.ft.

Camry total interior volume: 115.5 cu.ft.

 

[ccap41]

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

My gripe is the Stinger is overpriced.  The V6 Stinger costs more than a V8 Mustang or Camaro for example.  And the Stinger isn't really any more luxurious or better equipped than a Mustang, it just has back doors.   A Stinger is more than a Hemi Charger, too, and again the Stinger is maybe marginally better on interior, only because the Charger is ancient

And still none of those offer AWD or hatchback space in those trims you pointed out. 

Now arguing a Scat Pack(485hp) Charger starts at 41k is another story. I would definitely argue that is a fantastic value at 41k vs the Stinger GT at 39k. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

And still none of those offer AWD or hatchback space in those trims you pointed out. 

Now arguing a Scat Pack(485hp) Charger starts at 41k is another story. I would definitely argue that is a fantastic value at 41k vs the Stinger GT at 39k. 

The Altima has awd but only on 4-cylinder models as with Subaru.  If the Singer was good value, then awd and 2 extra doors should make it steal sales off Mustang and Camro all day long but that hasn’t happened.   And people aren’t paying $10k more than an Optima because Stinger has all wheel drive.  And the Stinger isn’t luxurious, the interior is below what you get in a Mazda 6.  Thus it has low sales.

[surreal1272]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

My gripe is the Stinger is overpriced.  The V6 Stinger costs more than a V8 Mustang or Camaro for example.  And the Stinger isn't really any more luxurious or better equipped than a Mustang, it just has back doors.   A Stinger is more than a Hemi Charger, too, and again the Stinger is maybe marginally better on interior, only because the Charger is ancient.

I love the fact that Kia made a rear drive sports sedan, something different than all the FWD generic stuff that is out there.  But they missed the mark on pricing.  

Kia has sold 3,227 Stinger in the first quarter, (which is down from 3,920) and they sold 22,668 Optimas which is up from last year.  Same size car, I think similar interior quality/luxury in both.  You can even get the same 2 liter turbo in both, but in the Stringer they change you $10-15k more than Optima because they turned the engine the correct way.  Way too much of an up charge to send power to the back wheels instead of the front.

Your gripe is severely misplaced, is my point here as you keep comparing it to completely non related cars which now includes the Camaro and Mustang. Even your Optima comparison is off base because the 2.0 motor is the thing they have in common. Seriously, I just don’t even see how you can make these arguments about it being overpriced while being a fan of a company known for overpriced cars. Just stop the nonsense already. 

35 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Altima has awd but only on 4-cylinder models as with Subaru.  If the Singer was good value, then awd and 2 extra doors should make it steal sales off Mustang and Camro all day long but that hasn’t happened.   And people aren’t paying $10k more than an Optima because Stinger has all wheel drive.  And the Stinger isn’t luxurious, the interior is below what you get in a Mazda 6.  Thus it has low sales.

I would dare say that part of its issue is due to brand snobs like yourself. 

 

And for the love of all that’s holy, stop with the apples oranges comparisons. 

[ccap41]

36 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Altima has awd but only on 4-cylinder models as with Subaru.  If the Singer was good value, then awd and 2 extra doors should make it steal sales off Mustang and Camro all day long but that hasn’t happened.   And people aren’t paying $10k more than an Optima because Stinger has all wheel drive.  And the Stinger isn’t luxurious, the interior is below what you get in a Mazda 6.  Thus it has low sales.

So again, it is a vehicle with options you cannot get for cheaper. I'm not sure where the argument is coming from.

Why would somebody be cross shopping mustang and camaros with a 4 door sedan? Not to say it never happens but I would think most that are looking at one is not in the market for the other. 

Also, Mustang and Camaro are down on sales...maybe it is stealing them.. ?

[surreal1272]

So SMK claims the Stinger is priced way too high over a FWD Optima while Mercedes does this. The A Class starts at more than $32K while the C Class is almost $10K more. We will sidestep the fact that $32K gets you a whopping 188HP in the “entry luxury” car. 

 

[surreal1272]

Anywho, maybe the conversation needs to steer back to the original subject, which is the next Vette. 

[Robert Hall]

6 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Anywho, maybe the conversation needs to steer back to the original subject, which is the next Vette. 

Yes, not much is known in hard details like dimensions or engine/trans specs...all will be revealed in due time...

[surreal1272]

6 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Yes, not much is known in hard details like dimensions or engine/trans specs...all will be revealed in due time...

Which is typical of soon to be released Vettes but even more so this time around, given the complete overhaul of literally everything. 

[ccap41]

I'm excited to see what it looks like but I don't think it will look much different than any other mid-engined cars. The proportions are all about the same with similar venting...

[Robert Hall]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'm excited to see what it looks like but I don't think it will look much different than any other mid-engined cars. The proportions are all about the same with similar venting...

Just looking at the camo-ed proto, it reminds me of the overall profile of the Ferrari Modena but with squared off scoops and a C6 style side window profile..   I'd rather have seen the glass hatch rear window ala the C5/C6, but it looks like it will get a narrow rear window like the C7 or a louvered arrangement and tiny rear window like so many mid engined cars.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

Wonder if you could make this an EV with battery pack that would give it 300 miles on a charge? ?

Would be a kick to the nuts of Tesla if they did it!  

[Robert Hall]

35 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Wonder if you could make this an EV with battery pack that would give it 300 miles on a charge? ?

Would be a kick to the nuts of Tesla if they did it!  

Yes, get an ElectroVette in production before the mythical Tesla 'roadster'. 

[ocnblu]

Ugh WTF